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During a home renovation last year I added in-ceiling speakers throughout the first floor. I bought 8 Polk Audio speakers for $45 each plus a couple hundred fe

by zaroth 7y ago

During a home renovation last year I added in-ceiling speakers throughout the first floor. I bought 8 Polk Audio speakers for $45 each plus a couple hundred feet of speaker cable from Monoprice and an 8 channel amplifier off Amazon which takes audio in from my receiver, which supports Chromecast and AirPlay. I had the opportunity to do this because the ceilings were already ripped down to redo lighting. The installers asked why I wasn’t going with Sonos and I said why would I replace a device which is literally impossible to become obsolete, requires zero configuration, and is almost impossible to break with a device which will maybe last 5 years if I’m lucky and requires configuration, software updates, and license agreements? I get it if you have absolutely no way to run the wires then a WiFi system maybe almost makes sense. Otherwise how can you beat hard-wired speakers and a dumb 8-channel amp?

antoniuschan99 7y ago
Can’t you bluetooth to that amp anyway? It’s just an additional aux?
- ghaff 7y ago
  With luck. I've never been able to make the Bluetooth to my Denon work. I just plug in an old iPhone instead.
  - antoniuschan99 7y ago
    The Logitech one I have from 4 years ago felt that way. Bluetooth is getting pretty rock solid now though. Even a cheap MPow Bluetooth audio jack for the Car works pretty well.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Yeah, it's probably worth my buying an external Bluetooth receiver to plug into my stereo at this point. My current setup works but it would be easier if I could just broadcast from any of my devices.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Just to clarify terminology, my 8-channel amp is a dumb device which takes analog RCA inputs and connects to 8 speakers via banana jacks and speaker wire. This thing weighs like 60 pounds and sits in a rack in the basement out of sight. The Denon receiver is the HDMI switcher + 7 channel amp + Dolby/DTS decoder + AirPlay endpoint which has Ethernet and WiFi etc. It’s in the living room connected to the TV and all the peripherals. But it has a “Zone 2” output which sends analog 2 channel line out audio to the amp in the basement. There are hard-switches on the amp where I have switched 4 of the speakers to be “Left” and 4 to be “Right” from the line-in. So I can AirPlay to the receiver (most any new receiver will support this) and it will send that 2-channel audio to Zone 2 out to the basement amp. IMO the best system is a dumb amp which is not on Ethernet or WiFi or Bluetooth or anything. That makes it totally future-proof. It’s also stupid cheap. $45 per speaker, $30 per channel of amplification. The receiver in my living room I would assume is going to have to get upgraded every few years because it runs software that I have to touch and needs to support the latest HDMI standards, etc. That’s the device which you can connect to via AirPlay or Chromecast or even Bluetooth.
  - antoniuschan99 7y ago
    I stayed at a Cottage that had Sonos installed in the whole house. Don't know why people would do that, felt so counterintuitive
wuunderbar 7y ago
There's a middle-ground here using the Sonos Connect/Port connected to a traditional system. This would work well for your use case. Some people genuinely like the Sonos software.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sponaugle 7y ago
  I really considered that approach.. using a port for each zone or speaker set. The only downside is cost if you have a lot of speakers or zones. I did 38 speakers, so if I did 19 ports that would be $8500, and take up a lot of room. I do like a lot of things about the Sonos software.
fingerlocks 7y ago
I did literally the exact same thing recently. However, my chromecast audio stopped working (possibly related to the product sun-setting?), and I was surprised to learn that Apple no longer manufactures the AirPorts. What kind of audio receiver did you use? I ended up purchasing a "new" AirPort Express on Ebay, but how else does one use AirPlay these days with off the shelf audio equipment? I couldn't find anything helpful via googling.
- jmfurlott 7y ago
  It's a more expensive answer, but I run my Apple TV through the HDMI passthrough of my receiver so I can have audio play without the TV actually being on. It's the closest I have come to the Express days. More commonly I just go bluetooth to the receiver as I live in a small apt
- gnabgib 7y ago
  While you can't easily buy chromecast audio anymore, mine are working just fine (so hopefully not sun-setting!) I have dongles and speakers that support chromecast. Playing right now
- cecja 7y ago
  I am using raspberry pis with shairport (https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync) works like a charm and at 15$ bucks impossible to beat price wise.
- 12xo 7y ago
  Yamaha (as well as others) have wireless functionality and, most importantly, sync capability.
- zaroth 7y ago
  My home theater receiver (Denon) supports ChromeCast and AirPlay. It has an RCA output for “Zone 2” which goes to the whole-house 8 channel amp. I already had the receiver in my living room for my 7.1 audio setup for watching shows/movies. So it didn’t cost anything to hook up the Zone 2 other than a $10 cable. I vouched for Cecja’s comment below. If you don’t have a WiFi device which can output analog audio and receive AirPlay, you can actually rig something up using a Raspberry Pi and open source software. Since there’s nothing to configure ever after the initial setup your family shouldn’t have any issues using it - it should “just work”. If you want to be able to play different streams to different rooms, I think you could even do it with several RPi’s each as their own AirPlay target, and then each wired to different channels of the amp.
mikewhy 7y ago
Are you able to turn on/off speakers without having to go to the amp/receiver?
- nl 7y ago
  Speakers are unpowered in that setup. Occasionally you'll see active speakers (which have built in amps), but most "hi-fi" setups don't use them.
gok 7y ago
You're able to use Chromecast and AirPlay without license agreements?
- jyrkesh 7y ago
  The receiver manufacturer has the license agreement. The point is that you can swap out said receiver for whatever supports whatever future protocol obsoletes Chromecast/AirPlay.
linsomniac 7y ago
You make a good point, but I have a counterpoint... My Father-in-law had a house built a couple years ago. The guy that did the A/V used the same setup you are talking about (Denon A/V receiver, multi-zone audio for whole house music, IR blaster for A/V system in a cabinet in the next room, 5+1 surround). They struggle with that system. It required a dedicated smart remote to turn on and control all the gear. But instead of a Logitech Harmony, he used some other brand that "is easier for installers to program". I had to make YouTube videos to remind myself and my FIL how to operate the system, particularly for less used configurations like playing a DVD or playing music on the deck... I was pretty shocked, because this was basically the A/V setup I had 20 years ago... My current setup is: Everything goes to the TV (PS4, Chromecast, soundbar), Soundbar is controlled by the TV remote using CEC (Consumer Electronics Control). Most things are controllable by the TV remote. CEC allows the TV to tell the soundbar to adjust the volume, the Chromecast to pause or play, though that doesn't seem to work when playing DVDs on the PS4, where we use the PS4 remote. CEC can also tell the TV to change inputs, so all I have to do is start casting to the Chromecast and the TV turns on and switches to the right input, turn the PS4 on and ditto, etc... Music in the bathroom? That's a Google Home. Music in the garage or back patio? That's a Bluetooth Jambox. Though that comes with it's own issues. Yes, simple is good. But these days I'd call this sort of CEC setup the simpler option. I appreciate the Receiver option, but I'm reluctant to switch away from this setup. I've been wanting to build some kick ass speakers using my woodworking and electronics skills, but I can't bring myself to introduce an amp/receiver to the mix. Aside: Does anyone know of a CEC controller for embedding into DIY soundbars? They make some that do amp+bluetooth+aux in, but I haven't found one that does HDMI in with CEC.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  I have my system centered around a Denon A/V receiver, with a Sony tv (with a single HDMI cable from the Denon being the only cable to it). Everything works more or less perfect, with the ocassional glitch where the a/v and tv no longer talk to each other (I need to reboot the whole system when this happens). - The tv and cable remote are both able to turn off the off the tv, which will tell the a/v receiver to turn off - Pressing home on the fire stick causes the tv and a/v to turn on - The volume on the tv, cable remote, and denon remote all trigger the volume of the denon to change. The tv and cable remotes do not trigger the denon's volume's "speed up how fast it changes" on the volume (I don't like that feature, so it works out well) Just pressing the button you would expect to work results in the expected action. I imagine adding sound multi-channel would add complexity (it, picking a channel), but that should be orthogonal to the rest of the setup, and be the same level of complexity between wired and not. What kinds of issues did you run into? Edit: To be clear, I'm an a/v newbie, I doubt I'd be able to offer any advice. I was just curious what issues you saw.
statictype 7y ago
Whats the alternative if you want a multi room system that can stream Apple Music?
sponaugle 7y ago
I am just finishing up building a new house, and so many people suggested the same thing (use sonos). Since it was new construction I put in 38 dedicated room speakers all wired to a central distribution system with good old speaker wire. I also ran extra Cat6A to each room for a control pad in the case I want to do system that needs that..and for starting out I'm using an AMP and dist controller from HTD. As Zeroth mentioned above this gives me a great deal of potential future redesigns as things change. Of course I also ran wire and fiber to every room for APs as the future will likely have more LOS wifi in it. I really like some of the features of Sonos, but when doing 38 speakers and 20+ zones the cost is pretty high. (Build thread here for reference: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409988 https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409988)
- datashow 7y ago
  I am curious to know what it’s the point to have this kind of system? I can imagine you would want to play the same music through the house when you have a big party. Other than that I don’t see much of need. You can simply have a sound system in each room so each family member can its own music , or carry a movable device with you.
  - sponaugle 7y ago
    Indeed I thought a lot about that while working on the zoning. The HTD system by default can do 12 zones (with as many speakers as you want). I suspect it would be rare to have more than 2 or 3 different sources across all of those zones, but it would be common to only want a few specific rooms have sound playing. The idea of a movable source device makes sense, and I suspect a very common use pattern will be playing something over airplay/airplay2 from a iphone. The zone splitting just makes it possible to have more granular control over where that sounds is going. I debated a lot about rather to install speakers at all, but I do want to be able to have some housewide paging/notification, and I would rather have each room have stereo speakers in the ceiling ( with a corresponding sub for some locations) then rely on a desk or table held speaker. Also, the cost of doing in wall is pretty cheap now if you are building new. Keep in mind it is possible in 3 years I figure out I did it all wrong, but that is the fun of home building. ;)
basch 7y ago
You could still do what you did, AND go sonos. They sell an amp without a speaker in it. https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html If you had walls and ceiling torn down, it makes waay more sense to run wire.
- zaroth 7y ago
  I would need 4 of these things to power 8 speakers... Why pay $649 for 2 channels versus $250 for 8 channels? My amp is in a rack in the basement. What’s the benefit of having the AirPlay software integrated into the amp? I already have an AirPlay endpoint in my AV receiver. I just run a $10 RCA cable from there to the dumb amp. I guess I just don’t get the Sonos value proposition.
  - givinguflac 7y ago
    What’s the benefit of having the AirPlay software integrated into the amp? Much lower latency so it can sync with video. Much higher audio quality because analog rca and crappy dac is not involved. You can power up to six Sonos in ceiling, in wall or outdoor speakers on one amp
kabes 7y ago
I use Sonos with a traditional hi-fi system via their connect box (now replaced by the way too high priced port). The only reason is that Sonos is the only system in the world that lets me play different Spotify songs in different rooms from 1 spotify account.
12xo 7y ago
I am with you on this 100%. Did the same thing in my home remodel. Investing in any proprietary hardware universe has proven to be a fools errand. As the standards change, I can still listen to music via any system, service or format. And better: I get the same functionality as Sonos with a few Yamaha receivers and Spotify and/or Apple Music. Oh and my system offers much much, much better fidelity and infinite upgrade options which is far more important to me as a music junkie and musician.
enobrev 7y ago
I just went through this as well. I found a used HTD Lync 12 (12-zone multi-channel amp) on craigslist for a steal from a person who never had the time to set it up. I was notified of it about a year after I created the search notification and jumped at it. This past fall I spent a week crawling around in my attic wiring up every room on the 2nd floor with some JBL 6" speakers, that were also somewhere around $50 per pair. I figured if they weren't good I could very easily upgrade them in the future, but they sound great. I ran the wires to a DIY network cabinet in my basement. We have two Chromecast Audios hooked into it, so my wife an I can stream simultaneously. We use it daily: Podcasts in the shower, white noise in whatever room the baby is sleeping in, music in whatever room we want, whenever, and the guest room TV is hooked up as an input so we can put the news on and listen anywhere. There are never sync issues, and the quality is absolutely excellent. Wiring it all was not fun, since this was all done in finished rooms - which meant a lot of drywall patching and a fairly concerned wife. But it was so absolutely worth the time and effort for the system as-is. Also, I'm getting pretty decent at patching drywall. Obviously, I get the draw for a wireless system. It's significantly easier to set up, and the features are lovely. But I'm glad to know my whole-house-audio will continue to work for many years regardless of what happens to any entity outside of my home. I can upgrade the speakers as needed. I can replace the receiver as needed. In a similar vein, it's mind-blowing how much better wired ethernet performs over wireless, especially in the realm of video streaming. As for overall cost - I'm just under $1k, but that's because I found the amp for a great price on craigslist, which is pretty rare. If it weren't for that, I probably would have gone with the Monoprice Amp and still fit into that budget. Full price would be significantly more, but not much more than a Sonos system.
chooseaname 7y ago
Nice. But I can’t help but think there’ll be people who will think to themselves in response to your question, “because wires aren’t modern”.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
monkeycantype 7y ago
The other great thing about your set up is you can add a $15 Alibaba Bluetooth adapter and you can integrate with any audio client. Rather that using the sonos client to control which room something plays in, you can have different bluetooth devices connected to different amps and you select which audio device you want your client to output to. Personally I think this more convenient and easier to use that proprietary end to end systems
wrs 7y ago
We hardwired our Sonoses to speakers when we installed them in 2006 — the whole wireless thing was irrelevant. We got them purely for the convenience of the wireless controller for playing music from the file server in the basement and the occasional internet stream. There wasn’t anything else like that at the time at a reasonable price. This is an opportunity to revisit that decision. In 2020, what should I replace them with that’s equally convenient (including for visitors), letting you control all the rooms from anywhere on your phone, can handle all the random streaming services, and can still play my library from the basement?
- givinguflac 7y ago
  There really isn’t anything in the market that does everything you listed well except Sonos.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Once you can AirPlay to your amp, you can do everything wrs wants. Any streaming service on your phone (or guests phone) will just AirPlay to the amp. To play music off the file server, I’ve heard Roon app is pretty good. If you want different music per zone, you can just setup multiple Raspberry Pis connected to different inputs on the amp and give them different AirPlay names.
    - givinguflac 7y ago
      That’s an awful experience. With Sonos it doesn’t matter what kind of connection my phone has to the network, and music won’t stutter or stop depending on where the phone is. I say again, there is nothing that offers the same experience. Good luck supporting a non-techie with an RPi setup
    - wrs 7y ago
      I’m ashamed to admit that not all of my visitors have iPhones.
viraptor 7y ago
> Otherwise how can you beat hard-wired speakers and a dumb 8-channel amp? Because it saves you running wires around the house and getting an 8-channel amp accessible from one place rather than every phone. I can run wires, but... what's the point? Even if I did want to run the wires, either the time to do that + required tools/materials, or getting an electrician costs me more than a set of sonos speakers.
eps 7y ago
I have the same setup, but I have to nitpick on the life expectancy of a dumb wired system. Rubber parts in speakers are prone to deterioration. They stiffen up and crumble. It's 10-20 years, granted, but there's still a lifetime cap.
acd 7y ago
This is why its better with open source and open standards. With open source less chance of bricked hardware. Ie with climate change i agree its better with simple long lasting devices.
jbverschoor 7y ago
It's funny how sonos became big with "multi-room" speakers.. But now they're mainly used as a wireless speaker with spotify. Not many people actually use it as multiroom speakers
- m4tthumphrey 7y ago
  > Not many people actually use it as multiroom speakers Source? This is still my primary use of Sonos, I have 4 of the original Play 1s and I love them as much as I did when I got the first because of the multiroom functionality.
m4tthumphrey 7y ago
I have been mentally planning our kitchen extension and adding traditional speakers in to walls/ceilings is by far the better and most sane option. Even if you want to use Sonos, you can buy their amp which allows you turn "dumb" speakers into wireless speakers.
t34543 7y ago
Secret sauce is source control. You can get a matrix switcher and come up with your own controls but smart remotes like URC and Control4 are way more expensive and IMO are less reliable. Surround speakers need a priority switch if you want matching amp profiles in the home theatre. I have in ceiling speakers each pair connecting to a sonos amp. Outdoors, in garage, etc. It’s great - for me. I have Play:1s in bathrooms without mics and it can all sync. Guests can also control it via phone. What pisses me off: - Lack of auto firmware updates at night - Latency with external sources unless you use a sound bar, maybe fixed with port? The connect sucked - Spotify premium required - Cost

by zaroth 7y ago

antoniuschan99 7y ago

Can’t you bluetooth to that amp anyway? It’s just an additional aux?

ghaff 7y ago
With luck. I've never been able to make the Bluetooth to my Denon work. I just plug in an old iPhone instead.
- antoniuschan99 7y ago
  The Logitech one I have from 4 years ago felt that way. Bluetooth is getting pretty rock solid now though. Even a cheap MPow Bluetooth audio jack for the Car works pretty well.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Yeah, it's probably worth my buying an external Bluetooth receiver to plug into my stereo at this point. My current setup works but it would be easier if I could just broadcast from any of my devices.
zaroth 7y ago
Just to clarify terminology, my 8-channel amp is a dumb device which takes analog RCA inputs and connects to 8 speakers via banana jacks and speaker wire. This thing weighs like 60 pounds and sits in a rack in the basement out of sight. The Denon receiver is the HDMI switcher + 7 channel amp + Dolby/DTS decoder + AirPlay endpoint which has Ethernet and WiFi etc. It’s in the living room connected to the TV and all the peripherals. But it has a “Zone 2” output which sends analog 2 channel line out audio to the amp in the basement. There are hard-switches on the amp where I have switched 4 of the speakers to be “Left” and 4 to be “Right” from the line-in. So I can AirPlay to the receiver (most any new receiver will support this) and it will send that 2-channel audio to Zone 2 out to the basement amp. IMO the best system is a dumb amp which is not on Ethernet or WiFi or Bluetooth or anything. That makes it totally future-proof. It’s also stupid cheap. $45 per speaker, $30 per channel of amplification. The receiver in my living room I would assume is going to have to get upgraded every few years because it runs software that I have to touch and needs to support the latest HDMI standards, etc. That’s the device which you can connect to via AirPlay or Chromecast or even Bluetooth.
- antoniuschan99 7y ago
  I stayed at a Cottage that had Sonos installed in the whole house. Don't know why people would do that, felt so counterintuitive

wuunderbar 7y ago

There's a middle-ground here using the Sonos Connect/Port connected to a traditional system. This would work well for your use case. Some people genuinely like the Sonos software.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sponaugle 7y ago
I really considered that approach.. using a port for each zone or speaker set. The only downside is cost if you have a lot of speakers or zones. I did 38 speakers, so if I did 19 ports that would be $8500, and take up a lot of room. I do like a lot of things about the Sonos software.

fingerlocks 7y ago

I did literally the exact same thing recently. However, my chromecast audio stopped working (possibly related to the product sun-setting?), and I was surprised to learn that Apple no longer manufactures the AirPorts. What kind of audio receiver did you use? I ended up purchasing a "new" AirPort Express on Ebay, but how else does one use AirPlay these days with off the shelf audio equipment? I couldn't find anything helpful via googling.

jmfurlott 7y ago
It's a more expensive answer, but I run my Apple TV through the HDMI passthrough of my receiver so I can have audio play without the TV actually being on. It's the closest I have come to the Express days. More commonly I just go bluetooth to the receiver as I live in a small apt
gnabgib 7y ago
While you can't easily buy chromecast audio anymore, mine are working just fine (so hopefully not sun-setting!) I have dongles and speakers that support chromecast. Playing right now
cecja 7y ago
I am using raspberry pis with shairport (https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync) works like a charm and at 15$ bucks impossible to beat price wise.
12xo 7y ago
Yamaha (as well as others) have wireless functionality and, most importantly, sync capability.
zaroth 7y ago
My home theater receiver (Denon) supports ChromeCast and AirPlay. It has an RCA output for “Zone 2” which goes to the whole-house 8 channel amp. I already had the receiver in my living room for my 7.1 audio setup for watching shows/movies. So it didn’t cost anything to hook up the Zone 2 other than a $10 cable. I vouched for Cecja’s comment below. If you don’t have a WiFi device which can output analog audio and receive AirPlay, you can actually rig something up using a Raspberry Pi and open source software. Since there’s nothing to configure ever after the initial setup your family shouldn’t have any issues using it - it should “just work”. If you want to be able to play different streams to different rooms, I think you could even do it with several RPi’s each as their own AirPlay target, and then each wired to different channels of the amp.

mikewhy 7y ago

Are you able to turn on/off speakers without having to go to the amp/receiver?

nl 7y ago
Speakers are unpowered in that setup. Occasionally you'll see active speakers (which have built in amps), but most "hi-fi" setups don't use them.

gok 7y ago

You're able to use Chromecast and AirPlay without license agreements?

jyrkesh 7y ago
The receiver manufacturer has the license agreement. The point is that you can swap out said receiver for whatever supports whatever future protocol obsoletes Chromecast/AirPlay.

linsomniac 7y ago

You make a good point, but I have a counterpoint... My Father-in-law had a house built a couple years ago. The guy that did the A/V used the same setup you are talking about (Denon A/V receiver, multi-zone audio for whole house music, IR blaster for A/V system in a cabinet in the next room, 5+1 surround). They struggle with that system. It required a dedicated smart remote to turn on and control all the gear. But instead of a Logitech Harmony, he used some other brand that "is easier for installers to program". I had to make YouTube videos to remind myself and my FIL how to operate the system, particularly for less used configurations like playing a DVD or playing music on the deck... I was pretty shocked, because this was basically the A/V setup I had 20 years ago... My current setup is: Everything goes to the TV (PS4, Chromecast, soundbar), Soundbar is controlled by the TV remote using CEC (Consumer Electronics Control). Most things are controllable by the TV remote. CEC allows the TV to tell the soundbar to adjust the volume, the Chromecast to pause or play, though that doesn't seem to work when playing DVDs on the PS4, where we use the PS4 remote. CEC can also tell the TV to change inputs, so all I have to do is start casting to the Chromecast and the TV turns on and switches to the right input, turn the PS4 on and ditto, etc... Music in the bathroom? That's a Google Home. Music in the garage or back patio? That's a Bluetooth Jambox. Though that comes with it's own issues. Yes, simple is good. But these days I'd call this sort of CEC setup the simpler option. I appreciate the Receiver option, but I'm reluctant to switch away from this setup. I've been wanting to build some kick ass speakers using my woodworking and electronics skills, but I can't bring myself to introduce an amp/receiver to the mix. Aside: Does anyone know of a CEC controller for embedding into DIY soundbars? They make some that do amp+bluetooth+aux in, but I haven't found one that does HDMI in with CEC.

RHSeeger 7y ago
I have my system centered around a Denon A/V receiver, with a Sony tv (with a single HDMI cable from the Denon being the only cable to it). Everything works more or less perfect, with the ocassional glitch where the a/v and tv no longer talk to each other (I need to reboot the whole system when this happens). - The tv and cable remote are both able to turn off the off the tv, which will tell the a/v receiver to turn off - Pressing home on the fire stick causes the tv and a/v to turn on - The volume on the tv, cable remote, and denon remote all trigger the volume of the denon to change. The tv and cable remotes do not trigger the denon's volume's "speed up how fast it changes" on the volume (I don't like that feature, so it works out well) Just pressing the button you would expect to work results in the expected action. I imagine adding sound multi-channel would add complexity (it, picking a channel), but that should be orthogonal to the rest of the setup, and be the same level of complexity between wired and not. What kinds of issues did you run into? Edit: To be clear, I'm an a/v newbie, I doubt I'd be able to offer any advice. I was just curious what issues you saw.

statictype 7y ago

Whats the alternative if you want a multi room system that can stream Apple Music?

sponaugle 7y ago

I am just finishing up building a new house, and so many people suggested the same thing (use sonos). Since it was new construction I put in 38 dedicated room speakers all wired to a central distribution system with good old speaker wire. I also ran extra Cat6A to each room for a control pad in the case I want to do system that needs that..and for starting out I'm using an AMP and dist controller from HTD. As Zeroth mentioned above this gives me a great deal of potential future redesigns as things change. Of course I also ran wire and fiber to every room for APs as the future will likely have more LOS wifi in it. I really like some of the features of Sonos, but when doing 38 speakers and 20+ zones the cost is pretty high. (Build thread here for reference: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409988 https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409988)

datashow 7y ago
I am curious to know what it’s the point to have this kind of system? I can imagine you would want to play the same music through the house when you have a big party. Other than that I don’t see much of need. You can simply have a sound system in each room so each family member can its own music , or carry a movable device with you.
- sponaugle 7y ago
  Indeed I thought a lot about that while working on the zoning. The HTD system by default can do 12 zones (with as many speakers as you want). I suspect it would be rare to have more than 2 or 3 different sources across all of those zones, but it would be common to only want a few specific rooms have sound playing. The idea of a movable source device makes sense, and I suspect a very common use pattern will be playing something over airplay/airplay2 from a iphone. The zone splitting just makes it possible to have more granular control over where that sounds is going. I debated a lot about rather to install speakers at all, but I do want to be able to have some housewide paging/notification, and I would rather have each room have stereo speakers in the ceiling ( with a corresponding sub for some locations) then rely on a desk or table held speaker. Also, the cost of doing in wall is pretty cheap now if you are building new. Keep in mind it is possible in 3 years I figure out I did it all wrong, but that is the fun of home building. ;)

basch 7y ago

You could still do what you did, AND go sonos. They sell an amp without a speaker in it. https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html If you had walls and ceiling torn down, it makes waay more sense to run wire.

zaroth 7y ago
I would need 4 of these things to power 8 speakers... Why pay $649 for 2 channels versus $250 for 8 channels? My amp is in a rack in the basement. What’s the benefit of having the AirPlay software integrated into the amp? I already have an AirPlay endpoint in my AV receiver. I just run a $10 RCA cable from there to the dumb amp. I guess I just don’t get the Sonos value proposition.
- givinguflac 7y ago
  What’s the benefit of having the AirPlay software integrated into the amp? Much lower latency so it can sync with video. Much higher audio quality because analog rca and crappy dac is not involved. You can power up to six Sonos in ceiling, in wall or outdoor speakers on one amp

kabes 7y ago

I use Sonos with a traditional hi-fi system via their connect box (now replaced by the way too high priced port). The only reason is that Sonos is the only system in the world that lets me play different Spotify songs in different rooms from 1 spotify account.

12xo 7y ago

I am with you on this 100%. Did the same thing in my home remodel. Investing in any proprietary hardware universe has proven to be a fools errand. As the standards change, I can still listen to music via any system, service or format. And better: I get the same functionality as Sonos with a few Yamaha receivers and Spotify and/or Apple Music. Oh and my system offers much much, much better fidelity and infinite upgrade options which is far more important to me as a music junkie and musician.

enobrev 7y ago

I just went through this as well. I found a used HTD Lync 12 (12-zone multi-channel amp) on craigslist for a steal from a person who never had the time to set it up. I was notified of it about a year after I created the search notification and jumped at it. This past fall I spent a week crawling around in my attic wiring up every room on the 2nd floor with some JBL 6" speakers, that were also somewhere around $50 per pair. I figured if they weren't good I could very easily upgrade them in the future, but they sound great. I ran the wires to a DIY network cabinet in my basement. We have two Chromecast Audios hooked into it, so my wife an I can stream simultaneously. We use it daily: Podcasts in the shower, white noise in whatever room the baby is sleeping in, music in whatever room we want, whenever, and the guest room TV is hooked up as an input so we can put the news on and listen anywhere. There are never sync issues, and the quality is absolutely excellent. Wiring it all was not fun, since this was all done in finished rooms - which meant a lot of drywall patching and a fairly concerned wife. But it was so absolutely worth the time and effort for the system as-is. Also, I'm getting pretty decent at patching drywall. Obviously, I get the draw for a wireless system. It's significantly easier to set up, and the features are lovely. But I'm glad to know my whole-house-audio will continue to work for many years regardless of what happens to any entity outside of my home. I can upgrade the speakers as needed. I can replace the receiver as needed. In a similar vein, it's mind-blowing how much better wired ethernet performs over wireless, especially in the realm of video streaming. As for overall cost - I'm just under $1k, but that's because I found the amp for a great price on craigslist, which is pretty rare. If it weren't for that, I probably would have gone with the Monoprice Amp and still fit into that budget. Full price would be significantly more, but not much more than a Sonos system.

chooseaname 7y ago

Nice. But I can’t help but think there’ll be people who will think to themselves in response to your question, “because wires aren’t modern”.

deleted 7y ago

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monkeycantype 7y ago

The other great thing about your set up is you can add a $15 Alibaba Bluetooth adapter and you can integrate with any audio client. Rather that using the sonos client to control which room something plays in, you can have different bluetooth devices connected to different amps and you select which audio device you want your client to output to. Personally I think this more convenient and easier to use that proprietary end to end systems

wrs 7y ago

We hardwired our Sonoses to speakers when we installed them in 2006 — the whole wireless thing was irrelevant. We got them purely for the convenience of the wireless controller for playing music from the file server in the basement and the occasional internet stream. There wasn’t anything else like that at the time at a reasonable price. This is an opportunity to revisit that decision. In 2020, what should I replace them with that’s equally convenient (including for visitors), letting you control all the rooms from anywhere on your phone, can handle all the random streaming services, and can still play my library from the basement?

givinguflac 7y ago
There really isn’t anything in the market that does everything you listed well except Sonos.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Once you can AirPlay to your amp, you can do everything wrs wants. Any streaming service on your phone (or guests phone) will just AirPlay to the amp. To play music off the file server, I’ve heard Roon app is pretty good. If you want different music per zone, you can just setup multiple Raspberry Pis connected to different inputs on the amp and give them different AirPlay names.
  - givinguflac 7y ago
    That’s an awful experience. With Sonos it doesn’t matter what kind of connection my phone has to the network, and music won’t stutter or stop depending on where the phone is. I say again, there is nothing that offers the same experience. Good luck supporting a non-techie with an RPi setup
  - wrs 7y ago
    I’m ashamed to admit that not all of my visitors have iPhones.

viraptor 7y ago

> Otherwise how can you beat hard-wired speakers and a dumb 8-channel amp? Because it saves you running wires around the house and getting an 8-channel amp accessible from one place rather than every phone. I can run wires, but... what's the point? Even if I did want to run the wires, either the time to do that + required tools/materials, or getting an electrician costs me more than a set of sonos speakers.

eps 7y ago

I have the same setup, but I have to nitpick on the life expectancy of a dumb wired system. Rubber parts in speakers are prone to deterioration. They stiffen up and crumble. It's 10-20 years, granted, but there's still a lifetime cap.

acd 7y ago

This is why its better with open source and open standards. With open source less chance of bricked hardware. Ie with climate change i agree its better with simple long lasting devices.

jbverschoor 7y ago

It's funny how sonos became big with "multi-room" speakers.. But now they're mainly used as a wireless speaker with spotify. Not many people actually use it as multiroom speakers

m4tthumphrey 7y ago
> Not many people actually use it as multiroom speakers Source? This is still my primary use of Sonos, I have 4 of the original Play 1s and I love them as much as I did when I got the first because of the multiroom functionality.

m4tthumphrey 7y ago

I have been mentally planning our kitchen extension and adding traditional speakers in to walls/ceilings is by far the better and most sane option. Even if you want to use Sonos, you can buy their amp which allows you turn "dumb" speakers into wireless speakers.

t34543 7y ago

Secret sauce is source control. You can get a matrix switcher and come up with your own controls but smart remotes like URC and Control4 are way more expensive and IMO are less reliable. Surround speakers need a priority switch if you want matching amp profiles in the home theatre. I have in ceiling speakers each pair connecting to a sonos amp. Outdoors, in garage, etc. It’s great - for me. I have Play:1s in bathrooms without mics and it can all sync. Guests can also control it via phone. What pisses me off: - Lack of auto firmware updates at night - Latency with external sources unless you use a sound bar, maybe fixed with port? The connect sucked - Spotify premium required - Cost