19 ms·

Using the hunger I experienced as a kid to teach mine about generosity (2019)

502 points by metafunctor 7y ago

OldGuyInTheClub 7y ago
That's a marvelous piece of writing.
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vecter 7y ago
> I don’t remember Anita saying anything to my mother or even asking her husband first if she could give us something, but I remember her packing up her table: the pot roast, the carrots, the gravy, the potatoes. She handed it all to my mother. That hit me like a truck. I'm actually tearing up. Next time I walk past a homeless person, I'll think twice.
- ctur 7y ago
  Don’t just walk past; give them some cash or carry gift cards for grocery store or pharmacies to hand out. Then also donate to a local shelter. Give them cash. Give them dignity by making eye contact. Give the benefit of the doubt they need it and will use it responsibly. Give.
  - thrwaway69 7y ago
    A nicer gesture would be asking what they need and supplying them. Cash is not always the best medium for reasons related to not having enough background information. Some of them may use it for worsening their condition (addiction) and others don't know how to get good supplies from it - mindset change due to homelessness.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
      That's not right. You don't get to decide what people do with your gifts. That, too, is not how giving works. For those who are addicted (and let's repeat that not everyone who is homeless is an addict, at least not yet) their addiction won't magickally vanish if you don't give them money to spend on drugs. They'll find their drugs anyway. Maybe not with your money, but they won't get any better because you didn't give them money. And they'll probably do something desperate to get it if they don't have money so you're probably protecting them from the worse if you do give them money. Personally, I live in a place with a large population of homeless people and I give money. The majority don't look like they're junkies or anything, but even for the ones who are, if enough people give them money they'll get their drugs and they'll have some left to go and get themselves something else they need. You just have to fill the pot up. I sometimes ask people what they need, if they're sitting outside a store. A guy once asked me for a Cadbury's and a bottle of Gatorade. I thought, yech, on both counts and the chocolate is defo unhealthy, but maybe it was a way to combat the cold or get a quick hit of energy? How would I know? I've never sat on my arse on a cold dirty pavement for days. If the folks who do that don't know best what they need, then I certainly don't so I might as well go with what they say. Edit: And, to be perfectly honest, giving doesn't make me feel any better and it's not really helping the homeless much. What those people need is to get off the streets. Small donations like I can afford (I'm a PhD student after all) is at best helping them get by, if enough other people chip in. In the article, Anita helped the author's mother get a job. That's the kind of thing that changes a person's life, although of course packing up a warm meal for them is a very good start. There was a young guy who was sitting in the same place for at least three or four years. I used to give him money when I went by on my way home from work (before I was a PhD student). It didn't matter that I gave him money. He was still there for all those years. You don't get people out of poverty by giving them your change. Not that you shouldn't - but what is needed is, well, scuse the involuntary pun but radical societal change. Is that coming from anywhere?
      - thrwaway69 7y ago
        > For those who are addicted (and let's repeat that not everyone who is homeless is an addict, at least not yet) their addiction won't magickally vanish if you don't give them money to spend on drugs. They'll find their drugs anyway. Maybe not with your money, but they won't get any better because you didn't give them money. And they'll probably do something desperate to get it if they don't have money so you're probably protecting them from the worse if you do give them money. I agree but you need to account for both parties involved. Giving money opposed to asking them for what they need and supplying it increases the risk area for harm and it's inevitably a moral burden as well if someone thinks they are fueling addiction when they might not be, it's hard to know. Addiction is a complex problem which can't be solved by a passway. The best they can do is focus on supplies for improvement in qualify of life for the homeless within a reasonable timeframe. Not only improvement in what you eat and self caring products lead to distraction from addiction but helps you stand up. It opens up opportunity to ask about them and give emotional fulfillment as well. Throwing money in a bin or putting it on their hand doesn't which is what most people would do if they were to just give out money. > I sometimes ask people what they need, if they're sitting outside a store. A guy once asked me for a Cadbury's and a bottle of Gatorade. I thought, yech, on both counts and the chocolate is defo unhealthy, but maybe it was a way to combat the cold or get a quick hit of energy? How would I know? I've never sat on my arse on a cold dirty pavement for days. If the folks who do that don't know best what they need, then I certainly don't so I might as well go with what they say. Sure that's a good point and I didn't imply to act like you know what they need. That is more of a quality issue. Giving money is unknowingly restricting and letting their mindset dictate short term benefit over long term. They may try to get a cheaper unhealthy chocolate due to dollar difference or thought of saving up.
    - jrochkind1 7y ago
      One person's "worsening their condition" is another person's self-medication. Sure, you can ask them what they need, but the nice thing about cash if they can use it to buy whatever they need, that's what cash is for. And have the dignity to decide for themselves what it is, not have to tell you and get it approved like you're their teacher or boss. I mean, are you spending some of YOUR money on alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes? Then you can afford to give someone cash without needing to worry about whether they might do the same, and whether that's good for them or not.
      - fastball 7y ago
        What is the point of giving someone money so that they can die of an overdose using the drugs you helped them buy?
        jlokier 7y ago
        The OP explained: It gives them dignity and perhaps self-determination. Both of those things have value. A person can still die from self-determination of course, so it comes down to a decision about what you think matters the most.
        fastball 7y ago
        They already have self-determination without you giving them money to buy drugs. And dying of an overdose doesn't give you any dignity.
        jrochkind1 7y ago
        You are not able to predict who is going to die of an overdose -- let alone because of your gift (ie suggeseting they wouldn't have otherwise, it is your gift that led to that). So you can decide to treat everyone with dignity as an adult, or nobody with dignity as an adult. You are advocating for nobody (or at least nobody who is on the streets), out of an abundance of 'caution'. You are mistaken if you think you are helping people by being an asshole to them. But it is certainly your right to do so.
    - vraivroo 7y ago
      No, a nicer gesture would be respecting their dignity and humanizing them. It's popular to rationalize those who are worse off as being worse at making decisions, but it's not accurate, fair, or humane.
  - probably_wrong 7y ago
    I disagree with the "give them cash" part - donating to shelters or charities is often better. Not because "they will spend it on drugs", which you really can't tell, but because it's a better way to help the overall population rather than a single individual. And giving cash often leads to some perverse incentives.
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      You can do that right now. And if you haven’t done it by the next time you walk past a homeless person, just give them cash instead of kidding yourself that you’ll give in a more effective way later.
      - rdtwo 7y ago
        Homeless people respond to incentives like everyone else. If you keep enabling them to beg at street corners it makes it less likely that they will every do anything else to earn money and become productive members.
        lazyasciiart 7y ago
        Yes, you can choose to simply not give either to charities or directly to homeless people, but be honest about it and don’t talk about charities being a more efficient way to give.
        vraivroo 7y ago
        The beatings will continue until morale improves!
  - throwaway43289 7y ago
    The problem with giving cash is that it incentivizes them to continue to panhandle, even if there are other ways they could be spending their time that are more beneficial for them. Maybe they could be waiting in a government office to sort out a benefits issue, or they could be relaxing indoors in a shelter or church, but they feel like they need to sit outside because if they don't they're losing income. Give to nonprofits that focus on helping the homeless - they will be able to distribute the benefits in a way that is better in the long-term for the homeless themselves.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      "The problem with giving cash is that it incentivizes them to continue to panhandle, even if there are other ways they could be spending their time that are more beneficial for them. Maybe they could be waiting in a government office to sort out a benefits issue, or they could be relaxing indoors in a shelter or church, but they feel like they need to sit outside because if they don't they're losing income." Is this actually true? 1) Why would relaxing indoors be beneficial compared to not earning income? Isn't the whole point in society that lazing around is a bad thing and the poor should work hard to try and get themselves to a better space, which requires money? In the case of the homeless it's public humiliation in exchange for spare change. 2) What if they did, and then they have to wait several months for a response from the gov't (eg. disability)?
  - Kalium 7y ago
    I've had enough experiences with people choosing to be irresponsible when given the benefit of the doubt that I've learned not to give it. I may be alone in this lived experience.
    - merpnderp 7y ago
      You're not alone. My experience in Habitat for Humanity and with various churches offering programs to get the homeless off the street and into homes and jobs, is that people who want help go to places that offer help. People who want easy cash for selfish/self-harming reasons beg on the corners/parking lots presenting either lies or scams.
      - jlokier 7y ago
        My experience is more mixed, but it probably depends on what kinds of places and what kinds of help are available in the area. E.g. an undocumented migrant might be too afraid to go to places that could help (sometimes that's justified unfortunately), and end up self-harming because what else are you going to do stuck on the street with no future you can see, but it doesn't mean they started out motivated to self-harm.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  Cash and resources are important, but sometimes just buying someone lunch and listening to what they have to say for half an hour means the world to them. There's a lot of homeless where I am. I've been here long enough to recognize most of their faces, and I'll often get lunch with about half a dozen of them whom I've found to generally be good people with no support network.
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peter_retief 7y ago
This world with all its evil has beautiful people who love and give freely.
- throwGuardian 7y ago
  The news, where "what bleeds, leads" is likely the reason for an amplified perception of "evil". The world is very likely a kind place, especially in politically stable regions
fargle 7y ago
I have been hungry. This rings of truth and it brings me almost to tears. Thank you.
dr01d 7y ago
Life is hard. Most people luck into their existence. Especially west coast.
docbrown 7y ago
Growing up in poverty is much more than just going hungry every night. Poverty consumes each person that lives inside of it and strips them of their own individual identity. As the author said, if you look at the faces of people around you long enough, you will start to see pain, fear, uncertainty, and many more unspoken emotions that is tied to poverty. Poverty makes a person begin questioning what it is they did in their life that brought them to this low of a point. Ignoring all of the economic reasons and social standings, poverty makes the person believe they are incapable of ever achieving anything more. It is when that same person begins to actually feel as if they can escape poverty that they also begin to have stronger fears of insecurity. For many, they feel as if they do not belong in a higher bracket. Trailer parks, frozen foods, and generic brands are all they ever knew and it’s all they should ever have. Being around those with money who have never experienced this lack of worth is a terrible time for those who came from poverty. In their eyes, if they were given the opportunity to be so comfortable in life, they would do anything they could to spread joy to anyone who walked through their door. But for many families, a fridge full of groceries is common; an abundance of snack choices for your guests is nothing out of the ordinary. For those in poverty, this sense of wanting to give back to those who may need it more than you is something that is learned through hardship and life experiences.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  Removed: Apologies, I didn't think through when I wrote that. Hopefully, no one minds.
  - crummy 7y ago
    I think most people prefer a "small shit life" than death. You talk about "bet on another life", so maybe you're talking about reincarnation though?
  - xorfish 7y ago
    There are ways to combat poverty that are better than euthanasia. Giving people money is a pretty good way to do that. Money that they can choose to spend as they wish. Euthanasia should be available for people who suffer an illness that makes the life not worth living anymore.
sillysaurusx 7y ago
I see a lot of people here felt moved by this writing. I wanted to share another that recently moved me: Two Arms and a Head https://web.archive.org/web/20110107100235/http://www.2arms1head.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20110107100235/http://www.2arms1... It's written by someone who became a paraplegic. You may have seen it on HN recently, but maybe not. It's not something that you can consume in a few minutes. But it's worth reading in its entirety. It really, truly helps you appreciate just how much most of us have in life. I apologize if this is tangential. But it was such an incredible experience to read it that I wanted to share it with someone. I haven't felt my perspective about life change that much by a single work before. It's a longform essay on life, happiness, morals, philosophy, ethics, and someone's personal journey through the pits of hell. It's also an extended suicide note that might make you rethink certain aspects of society. But it also has a certain flavor of humor: I have not been an author for long (and won’t be one for long!) ... For some excerpts, I compiled a list that struck me while reading: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1208678324928700417 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1208678324928700417
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- exolymph 7y ago
  Here's the website directly: http://www.2arms1head.com/ http://www.2arms1head.com/ Thread for anyone who's interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21729056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21729056 Very similar topic, also recommended: Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo.
- cjustin 7y ago
  Wow. When I clicked the link and saw its length I didn't think I would read it all but I just finished it in one sitting. Tremendously sad, yet I couldn't help but laugh at times. Clayton certainly has a way with words. As an able-bodied young man I could never truly understand the depth of his suffering. I'm actually shocked at the emotional response I felt from reading this. Incredibly moving.
mgarfias 7y ago
This is the best thing I’ve read in a long time
nubianwarrior 7y ago
Grew up in a colonia and I constantly fear with my six figure salary, existing in this ridiculous world of opulence and technology that I will lose those lessons. I am more than how I grew up or where I am from. Feels good to know I do not walk alone in that journey...
throwaway72873 7y ago
My mum raised 5 kids, no wealth, no child support, yet managed to put us through university. But growing up in poverty taught me opposite lesson. I hate beggars and charities. You have more expensive shoes, iphone and golden necklace. But YOU are asking ME to give you money? Why is not mum with a kid in a shelter? Bcos she can not take a booze into shelter. She would rather starve her kid and use it as a prop for begging. Adoption is also not an option, bcos she needs child support money for booze. Or this charity that collected millions to repair Haiti, but only used 2% for that purpose, rest goes into "expenses".
- moneywoes 7y ago
  What is the best way for people to help?
  - antupis 7y ago
    Peter Singer just-released 10th-anniversary edition from The Most Good You Can Do and it is free https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/the-book/ https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/the-book/ it is one way to look at what is the best way to help people.
    - pseudosudoer 7y ago
      I was about to point out the irony in selling a book about being charitable... Glad that it's free!
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    https://www.consumerreports.org/charities/best-charities-for-your-donations/ https://www.consumerreports.org/charities/best-charities-for...
- mlang23 7y ago
  Thanks for pointing this aspect of things out. I know what you are talking about. My father spend aroun 80k of the disability money he received in my name on booze. And nobody of my relatives ever raised this issue. It looked like they didn't even notice. So, the social system was trying to make my situation better, by providing my parents with a considerable sum of money. And all they did, was spend in the way they saw fit. These days, my mother claims she didn't have any say in the matter. What a chicken move. Think twice before you only see the publishable side of a story.
brainloungee 7y ago
While I fully agree that the most essential need of every human being -- and every animal or plant -- is drinking, breathing and eating, let's not forget there are other essential needs that everyone has: attention, love, education... All I want to say is that the most precious thing you can give might as well be: your time and undivided attention, a smile or nice word or any other form of humanity. It can sometimes be harder to give that, than a quick donation to a foodbank.
benjaminwootton 7y ago
I must have read a million articles in my life, but that’s the first one to have me in tears and really make me think at a deep level. Great writing!
noisy_boy 7y ago
I once forgot to bring my wallet to office. I rarely borrow money so I very reluctantly asked for 20 bucks from a colleague. It was supposed to take care of breakfast/lunch/dinner (probably should have borrowed more considering the location where I was, it wasn't a given that it'll be sufficient). I remember carefully checking the prices of items to decide what I was going to order so that I had enough for the next meal. This was not even remotely close to being poor but it was enough to provide me with some direct perspective.
- rogy 7y ago
  20$ for a single day of food gives you ‘direct perspective’ ? come on now.
  - tempestn 7y ago
    Why not read it with a modicum of charity? Or even just quote the whole sentence? The parent was clearly saying the experience was nothing remotely like poverty, but helped give some perspective on what it might be like to have to regularly think about making money stretch to the next meal. Many people who've had a cushion of savings their whole lives would never consider that experience at all.
  - jimbokun 7y ago
    "This was not even remotely close to being poor..."
  - beerandt 7y ago
    Having to think (as in spend any mental effort) about money at all, in the context of regular daily purchases? I mean it's not anywhere near the level of worrying about where the next meal is coming from, but it is a reminder of one of the many stressors that the poor are constantly dealing with. Budgeting is always stressful. Having to exert that effort every day on every purchase, instead of weekly/monthly (and only on larger purchases) is a lot of mental energy that could be spent in more productive ways. That becomes easy to forget sometimes. Edit: I didn't think this would be controversial... I'm honestly asking, why?
- 7y ago
ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago
I had a friend point out that excellent posting a couple of days ago. I think it’s an excellent story for our time, and I’m glad to see it here.
ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago
I grew up in Africa, and saw some pretty heavy-duty poverty up close and personal. It profoundly affected me. I’m glad to have had the experience. It has done much to make me wiser, and more grateful for what I have.
msafadieh 7y ago
thanks for making this about yourself
Invictus0 7y ago
Why was the title changed from the author's original title?
- phnofive 7y ago
  https://hackernewstitles.netlify.com/ https://hackernewstitles.netlify.com/ The mod changed it to the subtitle, which is more descriptive, but it would be nice to see a comment when they do so.
- metafunctor 7y ago
  I submitted using the original title. Someone changed it to the subtitle in the article. I don't know why, I think the original title was fine. A tad click-baity, perhaps, but the article actually delivers.
  - ryanwinchester 7y ago
    For what it's worth, I would never have read it if it was the original title. Glad I read it, though. Thanks for posting.
philbarr 7y ago
I was at a party once, which I didn't really want to be at but didn't really have a choice, and everyone was taking drugs and I was hiding in the corner. I started speaking to the only other guy who was also hiding in the corner and it turned out he was a heroin addict. He was quite open about it. He was talking about his life, and after about half an hour of him talking I thought, "this guy had no chance." I mean, I grew up in a lower-middle class home. There was always food, 2 parents, a roof over my head, education. I had so much luck that when I made a whole bunch of mistakes (to the point that I was hiding in a corner speaking to a heroin addict), I could call up Mum and Dad and move home. This guy had none of that, and worse, people were actively trying to make money off him the entire time. His friends had got him addicted to heroin and then sold it to him, for example. The reason he was sat in the corner for so long was because he'd been late paying his heroin bill so the drug dealer was making him wait until he started to suffer withdrawal before he got some more. The next day he died of a drug overdose. I stood there in the crowd as they took his body out of his flat. The same friends who'd sold him the drugs were saying things like, "that fucker owed me £20! If you're going to OD you'd at least cash your dole check and pay your mates back first?!"
- bpizzi 7y ago
  > There was always food, 2 parents, a roof over my head, education. I had so much luck [...] This guy had none of that, [...] His friends had got him addicted to heroin and then sold it to him, for example. I dunno. I mean, one could have everything you cited and still let his friends get him addicted. And there's people having no chance at all while still staying far from drugs. A personal and non-learnt-by-example inclination to self-preservation and survival may be a bigger factor than sheer luck (IMHO).
  - lultimouomo 7y ago
    > A personal and non-learnt-by-example inclination to self-preservation and survival may be a bigger factor than sheer luck (IMHO). It'd sure be lucky to have such an inclination
    - 7y ago
sandoooo 7y ago
Two billionaires walk down the street. They spot a charity drive. Billionaire A hands over a $50 note, then asks for change. He is planning to donate $20. A reporter captures this moment, and the next day the news is about how much of a cheapscate A is. A proceeds to spend $10000 in PR crisis management. Billionaire B keeps his head down and pretends he didn't see the charity. Nobody bothers him. Total donations to charity: A:20 B:0 Also the reporter gets a payrise.
- yazan94 7y ago
  Anyone can make up a story. But what was the point of this one?
  - downerending 7y ago
    That no good deed goes unpunished. And that people rarely miss the opportunity to criticize others.
    - yazan94 7y ago
      This was quite literally a story made up on the spot to broadcast the OP's view. There are generally no useful lessons learned from fake anecdotes
  - sandoooo 7y ago
    https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/jeff-bezos-amazon-bushfire-donation/ https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/jeff-bezos-amazon-bushfire-do...
happy-go-lucky 7y ago
>> ... the car we’d used to get to the town had broken down... A car is still a luxury where I live.
atc 7y ago
I found this very moving and donated to a UK homelessness charity: https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us.
Tade0 7y ago
I grew up in a lower-middle class family (luxuries that we couldn't afford were school books for every year, but that was about it), but my SO grew up in actual poverty. It does weird things to a person. One thing that stood out was decision making in general, which used to be very difficult for her - and the scope didn't even matter - it could well have been deciding on the flavour of juice to buy. Fortunately it's much better now. We laugh that she has "expensive taste", because without looking at the prices, her first pick is usually the most expensive.
johnpowell 7y ago
I was about 11 and my mom fled a abusive relationship. Didn't really have a plan but we started in Oregon and ended up in Utah. We were getting survivors benefits from Social Security and ran out of cash. So we had to kill a few weeks in until the next check came in. So we stayed at a battered woman's shelter in Cedar City. Lovely place, lovely people. Everyone helped out cooking. It was a small place, maybe 20 woman and children there and a few staff. But one night my mom volunteered to make a cake. I remember this vividly. It was a Cherry Chip cake from a box and there was a thing of vanilla frosting. I ended up adding the ingredients and mixing them up. So the cake goes in the oven and bakes and something is wrong. I forgot to add eggs into the batter. So we ended up with gross sludge. People were nice about but you could tell everyone was really disappointed. And cake was a luxury, it wasn't like we could go out and grab another one. I'm going on 20+ years of mailing them cash with a note saying to buy cake.
- erfZSgfea 7y ago
  Thank you for that story. The people who run these shelters are angels. My wife escaped her ex by seeking shelter at a battered women's place. I owe her life to them. There my wife met women of a completely different background. My wife is white, at the time already well educated, and very type A [0]. Her only "disadvantage" was that she was a recent immigrant to the US, with all the difficulties of being a recent immigrant. So the shelter is the only place in the past decade where she met people you never meet in the US; the others. She has very powerful memories of the people she met there. They have one fundamental rule: you don't tell any men where it's located. Although I'm filled with curiosity (partially lack of discipline, partially to send them a cheque), I've never asked her where this place is; I don't want to put her in that position. Not to the place to which I owe her life. [0] It's funny. She's very type-A, very much in charge, yet it took her manager, a black man, to force her to seek help. He told her either to go stay at a shelter or not come to work the next day.
  - utopian3 7y ago
    Sounds like you can also seek out that manager and properly thank him over a meal! I'm glad your wife got to safety
erfZSgfea 7y ago
I grew up with certain privileges. Dad's an engineer and a go-getter, mom has a masters. But we were a one income family (my mom's work doesn't cross intl. borders) with a bit of job insecurity when we first moved to N. America. Most of my childhood anxiety was due to my parents being too honest with me (my dad got laid of twice in the early 90s' recessions, I was seven). I remember every month I would lend my mom my savings (about 200) to help her get us get to the end of the month. Since my mom depended on this being available, I asked very solemnly when I used it to buy a CD burner. To this day I ask permission to my wife to buy most anything (she has a similar background and does the same). I remember looking at a $20 and all the power it held. A tank of gas. Several days of food. Again, similar story for my wife - she lived on a $5/day food budget. I remember that, on long drives, we'd fit the five of us into a two door car with four seat belts. My mom's $1000 k-car had unreliable breaks. An issue on the freeway. My father never drove faster than 50 mph on the freeway (the limit was 60 at the time) I remember my dad joking about feeding the "black hole" our non-mortgage household debt. I have deep aversion to any type of debt. Eventually my dad moved up the ranks and all this went away. When I entered college things changed and we ended up quite well off, to the point where I have no student debt thanks to my parents. Trough all of this, though, my parents were very clear that no matter how "difficult" (they labeled us as "poor") things were, people were much worse off than us.
- xorfish 7y ago
  > To this day I ask permission to my wife to buy most anything (she has a similar background and does the same). This is such a beneficial personal finance habit. It prevents lots of unnecessary spending on stuff you don't really need that would take up space in your place of living.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  If you are borrowing $200 every month and paying it back, you have a budgeting problem not an income problem. I hope the $200 loan was a trick your mom played to help you save money.
  - phaedrus 7y ago
duelingjello 7y ago
Empathy, shame and the Golden Rule have to be taught. If not, feral kids tend to grow up to be self-absorbed, mean, psychopathic, selfish pricks. PS: I grew up middle class but am now completely destitute and semi-homeless.
danans 7y ago
As someone who fasts intermittently, and has come to understand the cognitive effects on the brain of caloric deprivation, it's saddening to think of a child experiencing a similar effect. Unlike a voluntary faster like me, the circumstance is completely out of the child's control and probably happening while they are facing any number of other family challenges. On top of that, they are in this condition while in school, where they are being evaluated for their cognitive performance. It really underlines the dire importance of things like free school breakfast, lunch and snack programs.

502 points by metafunctor 7y ago

OldGuyInTheClub 7y ago

That's a marvelous piece of writing.

deleted 7y ago

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vecter 7y ago

> I don’t remember Anita saying anything to my mother or even asking her husband first if she could give us something, but I remember her packing up her table: the pot roast, the carrots, the gravy, the potatoes. She handed it all to my mother. That hit me like a truck. I'm actually tearing up. Next time I walk past a homeless person, I'll think twice.

ctur 7y ago
Don’t just walk past; give them some cash or carry gift cards for grocery store or pharmacies to hand out. Then also donate to a local shelter. Give them cash. Give them dignity by making eye contact. Give the benefit of the doubt they need it and will use it responsibly. Give.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  A nicer gesture would be asking what they need and supplying them. Cash is not always the best medium for reasons related to not having enough background information. Some of them may use it for worsening their condition (addiction) and others don't know how to get good supplies from it - mindset change due to homelessness.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
    That's not right. You don't get to decide what people do with your gifts. That, too, is not how giving works. For those who are addicted (and let's repeat that not everyone who is homeless is an addict, at least not yet) their addiction won't magickally vanish if you don't give them money to spend on drugs. They'll find their drugs anyway. Maybe not with your money, but they won't get any better because you didn't give them money. And they'll probably do something desperate to get it if they don't have money so you're probably protecting them from the worse if you do give them money. Personally, I live in a place with a large population of homeless people and I give money. The majority don't look like they're junkies or anything, but even for the ones who are, if enough people give them money they'll get their drugs and they'll have some left to go and get themselves something else they need. You just have to fill the pot up. I sometimes ask people what they need, if they're sitting outside a store. A guy once asked me for a Cadbury's and a bottle of Gatorade. I thought, yech, on both counts and the chocolate is defo unhealthy, but maybe it was a way to combat the cold or get a quick hit of energy? How would I know? I've never sat on my arse on a cold dirty pavement for days. If the folks who do that don't know best what they need, then I certainly don't so I might as well go with what they say. Edit: And, to be perfectly honest, giving doesn't make me feel any better and it's not really helping the homeless much. What those people need is to get off the streets. Small donations like I can afford (I'm a PhD student after all) is at best helping them get by, if enough other people chip in. In the article, Anita helped the author's mother get a job. That's the kind of thing that changes a person's life, although of course packing up a warm meal for them is a very good start. There was a young guy who was sitting in the same place for at least three or four years. I used to give him money when I went by on my way home from work (before I was a PhD student). It didn't matter that I gave him money. He was still there for all those years. You don't get people out of poverty by giving them your change. Not that you shouldn't - but what is needed is, well, scuse the involuntary pun but radical societal change. Is that coming from anywhere?
    - thrwaway69 7y ago
      > For those who are addicted (and let's repeat that not everyone who is homeless is an addict, at least not yet) their addiction won't magickally vanish if you don't give them money to spend on drugs. They'll find their drugs anyway. Maybe not with your money, but they won't get any better because you didn't give them money. And they'll probably do something desperate to get it if they don't have money so you're probably protecting them from the worse if you do give them money. I agree but you need to account for both parties involved. Giving money opposed to asking them for what they need and supplying it increases the risk area for harm and it's inevitably a moral burden as well if someone thinks they are fueling addiction when they might not be, it's hard to know. Addiction is a complex problem which can't be solved by a passway. The best they can do is focus on supplies for improvement in qualify of life for the homeless within a reasonable timeframe. Not only improvement in what you eat and self caring products lead to distraction from addiction but helps you stand up. It opens up opportunity to ask about them and give emotional fulfillment as well. Throwing money in a bin or putting it on their hand doesn't which is what most people would do if they were to just give out money. > I sometimes ask people what they need, if they're sitting outside a store. A guy once asked me for a Cadbury's and a bottle of Gatorade. I thought, yech, on both counts and the chocolate is defo unhealthy, but maybe it was a way to combat the cold or get a quick hit of energy? How would I know? I've never sat on my arse on a cold dirty pavement for days. If the folks who do that don't know best what they need, then I certainly don't so I might as well go with what they say. Sure that's a good point and I didn't imply to act like you know what they need. That is more of a quality issue. Giving money is unknowingly restricting and letting their mindset dictate short term benefit over long term. They may try to get a cheaper unhealthy chocolate due to dollar difference or thought of saving up.
  - jrochkind1 7y ago
    One person's "worsening their condition" is another person's self-medication. Sure, you can ask them what they need, but the nice thing about cash if they can use it to buy whatever they need, that's what cash is for. And have the dignity to decide for themselves what it is, not have to tell you and get it approved like you're their teacher or boss. I mean, are you spending some of YOUR money on alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes? Then you can afford to give someone cash without needing to worry about whether they might do the same, and whether that's good for them or not.
    - fastball 7y ago
      What is the point of giving someone money so that they can die of an overdose using the drugs you helped them buy?
      - jlokier 7y ago
        The OP explained: It gives them dignity and perhaps self-determination. Both of those things have value. A person can still die from self-determination of course, so it comes down to a decision about what you think matters the most.
        fastball 7y ago
        They already have self-determination without you giving them money to buy drugs. And dying of an overdose doesn't give you any dignity.
        jrochkind1 7y ago
        You are not able to predict who is going to die of an overdose -- let alone because of your gift (ie suggeseting they wouldn't have otherwise, it is your gift that led to that). So you can decide to treat everyone with dignity as an adult, or nobody with dignity as an adult. You are advocating for nobody (or at least nobody who is on the streets), out of an abundance of 'caution'. You are mistaken if you think you are helping people by being an asshole to them. But it is certainly your right to do so.
  - vraivroo 7y ago
    No, a nicer gesture would be respecting their dignity and humanizing them. It's popular to rationalize those who are worse off as being worse at making decisions, but it's not accurate, fair, or humane.
- probably_wrong 7y ago
  I disagree with the "give them cash" part - donating to shelters or charities is often better. Not because "they will spend it on drugs", which you really can't tell, but because it's a better way to help the overall population rather than a single individual. And giving cash often leads to some perverse incentives.
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    You can do that right now. And if you haven’t done it by the next time you walk past a homeless person, just give them cash instead of kidding yourself that you’ll give in a more effective way later.
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      Homeless people respond to incentives like everyone else. If you keep enabling them to beg at street corners it makes it less likely that they will every do anything else to earn money and become productive members.
      - lazyasciiart 7y ago
        Yes, you can choose to simply not give either to charities or directly to homeless people, but be honest about it and don’t talk about charities being a more efficient way to give.
      - vraivroo 7y ago
        The beatings will continue until morale improves!
- throwaway43289 7y ago
  The problem with giving cash is that it incentivizes them to continue to panhandle, even if there are other ways they could be spending their time that are more beneficial for them. Maybe they could be waiting in a government office to sort out a benefits issue, or they could be relaxing indoors in a shelter or church, but they feel like they need to sit outside because if they don't they're losing income. Give to nonprofits that focus on helping the homeless - they will be able to distribute the benefits in a way that is better in the long-term for the homeless themselves.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    "The problem with giving cash is that it incentivizes them to continue to panhandle, even if there are other ways they could be spending their time that are more beneficial for them. Maybe they could be waiting in a government office to sort out a benefits issue, or they could be relaxing indoors in a shelter or church, but they feel like they need to sit outside because if they don't they're losing income." Is this actually true? 1) Why would relaxing indoors be beneficial compared to not earning income? Isn't the whole point in society that lazing around is a bad thing and the poor should work hard to try and get themselves to a better space, which requires money? In the case of the homeless it's public humiliation in exchange for spare change. 2) What if they did, and then they have to wait several months for a response from the gov't (eg. disability)?
- Kalium 7y ago
  I've had enough experiences with people choosing to be irresponsible when given the benefit of the doubt that I've learned not to give it. I may be alone in this lived experience.
  - merpnderp 7y ago
    You're not alone. My experience in Habitat for Humanity and with various churches offering programs to get the homeless off the street and into homes and jobs, is that people who want help go to places that offer help. People who want easy cash for selfish/self-harming reasons beg on the corners/parking lots presenting either lies or scams.
    - jlokier 7y ago
      My experience is more mixed, but it probably depends on what kinds of places and what kinds of help are available in the area. E.g. an undocumented migrant might be too afraid to go to places that could help (sometimes that's justified unfortunately), and end up self-harming because what else are you going to do stuck on the street with no future you can see, but it doesn't mean they started out motivated to self-harm.
soulofmischief 7y ago
Cash and resources are important, but sometimes just buying someone lunch and listening to what they have to say for half an hour means the world to them. There's a lot of homeless where I am. I've been here long enough to recognize most of their faces, and I'll often get lunch with about half a dozen of them whom I've found to generally be good people with no support network.

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peter_retief 7y ago

This world with all its evil has beautiful people who love and give freely.

throwGuardian 7y ago
The news, where "what bleeds, leads" is likely the reason for an amplified perception of "evil". The world is very likely a kind place, especially in politically stable regions

fargle 7y ago

I have been hungry. This rings of truth and it brings me almost to tears. Thank you.

dr01d 7y ago

Life is hard. Most people luck into their existence. Especially west coast.

docbrown 7y ago

Growing up in poverty is much more than just going hungry every night. Poverty consumes each person that lives inside of it and strips them of their own individual identity. As the author said, if you look at the faces of people around you long enough, you will start to see pain, fear, uncertainty, and many more unspoken emotions that is tied to poverty. Poverty makes a person begin questioning what it is they did in their life that brought them to this low of a point. Ignoring all of the economic reasons and social standings, poverty makes the person believe they are incapable of ever achieving anything more. It is when that same person begins to actually feel as if they can escape poverty that they also begin to have stronger fears of insecurity. For many, they feel as if they do not belong in a higher bracket. Trailer parks, frozen foods, and generic brands are all they ever knew and it’s all they should ever have. Being around those with money who have never experienced this lack of worth is a terrible time for those who came from poverty. In their eyes, if they were given the opportunity to be so comfortable in life, they would do anything they could to spread joy to anyone who walked through their door. But for many families, a fridge full of groceries is common; an abundance of snack choices for your guests is nothing out of the ordinary. For those in poverty, this sense of wanting to give back to those who may need it more than you is something that is learned through hardship and life experiences.

thrwaway69 7y ago
Removed: Apologies, I didn't think through when I wrote that. Hopefully, no one minds.
- crummy 7y ago
  I think most people prefer a "small shit life" than death. You talk about "bet on another life", so maybe you're talking about reincarnation though?
- xorfish 7y ago
  There are ways to combat poverty that are better than euthanasia. Giving people money is a pretty good way to do that. Money that they can choose to spend as they wish. Euthanasia should be available for people who suffer an illness that makes the life not worth living anymore.

sillysaurusx 7y ago

I see a lot of people here felt moved by this writing. I wanted to share another that recently moved me: Two Arms and a Head https://web.archive.org/web/20110107100235/http://www.2arms1head.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20110107100235/http://www.2arms1... It's written by someone who became a paraplegic. You may have seen it on HN recently, but maybe not. It's not something that you can consume in a few minutes. But it's worth reading in its entirety. It really, truly helps you appreciate just how much most of us have in life. I apologize if this is tangential. But it was such an incredible experience to read it that I wanted to share it with someone. I haven't felt my perspective about life change that much by a single work before. It's a longform essay on life, happiness, morals, philosophy, ethics, and someone's personal journey through the pits of hell. It's also an extended suicide note that might make you rethink certain aspects of society. But it also has a certain flavor of humor: I have not been an author for long (and won’t be one for long!) ... For some excerpts, I compiled a list that struck me while reading: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1208678324928700417 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1208678324928700417

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exolymph 7y ago
Here's the website directly: http://www.2arms1head.com/ http://www.2arms1head.com/ Thread for anyone who's interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21729056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21729056 Very similar topic, also recommended: Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo.
cjustin 7y ago
Wow. When I clicked the link and saw its length I didn't think I would read it all but I just finished it in one sitting. Tremendously sad, yet I couldn't help but laugh at times. Clayton certainly has a way with words. As an able-bodied young man I could never truly understand the depth of his suffering. I'm actually shocked at the emotional response I felt from reading this. Incredibly moving.

mgarfias 7y ago

This is the best thing I’ve read in a long time

nubianwarrior 7y ago

Grew up in a colonia and I constantly fear with my six figure salary, existing in this ridiculous world of opulence and technology that I will lose those lessons. I am more than how I grew up or where I am from. Feels good to know I do not walk alone in that journey...

throwaway72873 7y ago

My mum raised 5 kids, no wealth, no child support, yet managed to put us through university. But growing up in poverty taught me opposite lesson. I hate beggars and charities. You have more expensive shoes, iphone and golden necklace. But YOU are asking ME to give you money? Why is not mum with a kid in a shelter? Bcos she can not take a booze into shelter. She would rather starve her kid and use it as a prop for begging. Adoption is also not an option, bcos she needs child support money for booze. Or this charity that collected millions to repair Haiti, but only used 2% for that purpose, rest goes into "expenses".

moneywoes 7y ago
What is the best way for people to help?
- antupis 7y ago
  Peter Singer just-released 10th-anniversary edition from The Most Good You Can Do and it is free https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/the-book/ https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/the-book/ it is one way to look at what is the best way to help people.
  - pseudosudoer 7y ago
    I was about to point out the irony in selling a book about being charitable... Glad that it's free!
- crooked-v 7y ago
  https://www.consumerreports.org/charities/best-charities-for-your-donations/ https://www.consumerreports.org/charities/best-charities-for...
mlang23 7y ago
Thanks for pointing this aspect of things out. I know what you are talking about. My father spend aroun 80k of the disability money he received in my name on booze. And nobody of my relatives ever raised this issue. It looked like they didn't even notice. So, the social system was trying to make my situation better, by providing my parents with a considerable sum of money. And all they did, was spend in the way they saw fit. These days, my mother claims she didn't have any say in the matter. What a chicken move. Think twice before you only see the publishable side of a story.

brainloungee 7y ago

While I fully agree that the most essential need of every human being -- and every animal or plant -- is drinking, breathing and eating, let's not forget there are other essential needs that everyone has: attention, love, education... All I want to say is that the most precious thing you can give might as well be: your time and undivided attention, a smile or nice word or any other form of humanity. It can sometimes be harder to give that, than a quick donation to a foodbank.

benjaminwootton 7y ago

I must have read a million articles in my life, but that’s the first one to have me in tears and really make me think at a deep level. Great writing!

noisy_boy 7y ago

I once forgot to bring my wallet to office. I rarely borrow money so I very reluctantly asked for 20 bucks from a colleague. It was supposed to take care of breakfast/lunch/dinner (probably should have borrowed more considering the location where I was, it wasn't a given that it'll be sufficient). I remember carefully checking the prices of items to decide what I was going to order so that I had enough for the next meal. This was not even remotely close to being poor but it was enough to provide me with some direct perspective.

rogy 7y ago
20$ for a single day of food gives you ‘direct perspective’ ? come on now.
- tempestn 7y ago
  Why not read it with a modicum of charity? Or even just quote the whole sentence? The parent was clearly saying the experience was nothing remotely like poverty, but helped give some perspective on what it might be like to have to regularly think about making money stretch to the next meal. Many people who've had a cushion of savings their whole lives would never consider that experience at all.
- jimbokun 7y ago
  "This was not even remotely close to being poor..."
- beerandt 7y ago
  Having to think (as in spend any mental effort) about money at all, in the context of regular daily purchases? I mean it's not anywhere near the level of worrying about where the next meal is coming from, but it is a reminder of one of the many stressors that the poor are constantly dealing with. Budgeting is always stressful. Having to exert that effort every day on every purchase, instead of weekly/monthly (and only on larger purchases) is a lot of mental energy that could be spent in more productive ways. That becomes easy to forget sometimes. Edit: I didn't think this would be controversial... I'm honestly asking, why?
7y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago

I had a friend point out that excellent posting a couple of days ago. I think it’s an excellent story for our time, and I’m glad to see it here.

ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago

I grew up in Africa, and saw some pretty heavy-duty poverty up close and personal. It profoundly affected me. I’m glad to have had the experience. It has done much to make me wiser, and more grateful for what I have.

msafadieh 7y ago

thanks for making this about yourself

Invictus0 7y ago

Why was the title changed from the author's original title?

phnofive 7y ago
https://hackernewstitles.netlify.com/ https://hackernewstitles.netlify.com/ The mod changed it to the subtitle, which is more descriptive, but it would be nice to see a comment when they do so.
metafunctor 7y ago
I submitted using the original title. Someone changed it to the subtitle in the article. I don't know why, I think the original title was fine. A tad click-baity, perhaps, but the article actually delivers.
- ryanwinchester 7y ago
  For what it's worth, I would never have read it if it was the original title. Glad I read it, though. Thanks for posting.

philbarr 7y ago

I was at a party once, which I didn't really want to be at but didn't really have a choice, and everyone was taking drugs and I was hiding in the corner. I started speaking to the only other guy who was also hiding in the corner and it turned out he was a heroin addict. He was quite open about it. He was talking about his life, and after about half an hour of him talking I thought, "this guy had no chance." I mean, I grew up in a lower-middle class home. There was always food, 2 parents, a roof over my head, education. I had so much luck that when I made a whole bunch of mistakes (to the point that I was hiding in a corner speaking to a heroin addict), I could call up Mum and Dad and move home. This guy had none of that, and worse, people were actively trying to make money off him the entire time. His friends had got him addicted to heroin and then sold it to him, for example. The reason he was sat in the corner for so long was because he'd been late paying his heroin bill so the drug dealer was making him wait until he started to suffer withdrawal before he got some more. The next day he died of a drug overdose. I stood there in the crowd as they took his body out of his flat. The same friends who'd sold him the drugs were saying things like, "that fucker owed me £20! If you're going to OD you'd at least cash your dole check and pay your mates back first?!"

bpizzi 7y ago
> There was always food, 2 parents, a roof over my head, education. I had so much luck [...] This guy had none of that, [...] His friends had got him addicted to heroin and then sold it to him, for example. I dunno. I mean, one could have everything you cited and still let his friends get him addicted. And there's people having no chance at all while still staying far from drugs. A personal and non-learnt-by-example inclination to self-preservation and survival may be a bigger factor than sheer luck (IMHO).
- lultimouomo 7y ago
  > A personal and non-learnt-by-example inclination to self-preservation and survival may be a bigger factor than sheer luck (IMHO). It'd sure be lucky to have such an inclination
  - 7y ago

sandoooo 7y ago

Two billionaires walk down the street. They spot a charity drive. Billionaire A hands over a $50 note, then asks for change. He is planning to donate $20. A reporter captures this moment, and the next day the news is about how much of a cheapscate A is. A proceeds to spend $10000 in PR crisis management. Billionaire B keeps his head down and pretends he didn't see the charity. Nobody bothers him. Total donations to charity: A:20 B:0 Also the reporter gets a payrise.

yazan94 7y ago
Anyone can make up a story. But what was the point of this one?
- downerending 7y ago
  That no good deed goes unpunished. And that people rarely miss the opportunity to criticize others.
  - yazan94 7y ago
    This was quite literally a story made up on the spot to broadcast the OP's view. There are generally no useful lessons learned from fake anecdotes
- sandoooo 7y ago
  https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/jeff-bezos-amazon-bushfire-donation/ https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/jeff-bezos-amazon-bushfire-do...

happy-go-lucky 7y ago

>> ... the car we’d used to get to the town had broken down... A car is still a luxury where I live.

atc 7y ago

I found this very moving and donated to a UK homelessness charity: https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us.

Tade0 7y ago

I grew up in a lower-middle class family (luxuries that we couldn't afford were school books for every year, but that was about it), but my SO grew up in actual poverty. It does weird things to a person. One thing that stood out was decision making in general, which used to be very difficult for her - and the scope didn't even matter - it could well have been deciding on the flavour of juice to buy. Fortunately it's much better now. We laugh that she has "expensive taste", because without looking at the prices, her first pick is usually the most expensive.

johnpowell 7y ago

I was about 11 and my mom fled a abusive relationship. Didn't really have a plan but we started in Oregon and ended up in Utah. We were getting survivors benefits from Social Security and ran out of cash. So we had to kill a few weeks in until the next check came in. So we stayed at a battered woman's shelter in Cedar City. Lovely place, lovely people. Everyone helped out cooking. It was a small place, maybe 20 woman and children there and a few staff. But one night my mom volunteered to make a cake. I remember this vividly. It was a Cherry Chip cake from a box and there was a thing of vanilla frosting. I ended up adding the ingredients and mixing them up. So the cake goes in the oven and bakes and something is wrong. I forgot to add eggs into the batter. So we ended up with gross sludge. People were nice about but you could tell everyone was really disappointed. And cake was a luxury, it wasn't like we could go out and grab another one. I'm going on 20+ years of mailing them cash with a note saying to buy cake.

erfZSgfea 7y ago
Thank you for that story. The people who run these shelters are angels. My wife escaped her ex by seeking shelter at a battered women's place. I owe her life to them. There my wife met women of a completely different background. My wife is white, at the time already well educated, and very type A [0]. Her only "disadvantage" was that she was a recent immigrant to the US, with all the difficulties of being a recent immigrant. So the shelter is the only place in the past decade where she met people you never meet in the US; the others. She has very powerful memories of the people she met there. They have one fundamental rule: you don't tell any men where it's located. Although I'm filled with curiosity (partially lack of discipline, partially to send them a cheque), I've never asked her where this place is; I don't want to put her in that position. Not to the place to which I owe her life. [0] It's funny. She's very type-A, very much in charge, yet it took her manager, a black man, to force her to seek help. He told her either to go stay at a shelter or not come to work the next day.
- utopian3 7y ago
  Sounds like you can also seek out that manager and properly thank him over a meal! I'm glad your wife got to safety

erfZSgfea 7y ago

I grew up with certain privileges. Dad's an engineer and a go-getter, mom has a masters. But we were a one income family (my mom's work doesn't cross intl. borders) with a bit of job insecurity when we first moved to N. America. Most of my childhood anxiety was due to my parents being too honest with me (my dad got laid of twice in the early 90s' recessions, I was seven). I remember every month I would lend my mom my savings (about 200) to help her get us get to the end of the month. Since my mom depended on this being available, I asked very solemnly when I used it to buy a CD burner. To this day I ask permission to my wife to buy most anything (she has a similar background and does the same). I remember looking at a $20 and all the power it held. A tank of gas. Several days of food. Again, similar story for my wife - she lived on a $5/day food budget. I remember that, on long drives, we'd fit the five of us into a two door car with four seat belts. My mom's $1000 k-car had unreliable breaks. An issue on the freeway. My father never drove faster than 50 mph on the freeway (the limit was 60 at the time) I remember my dad joking about feeding the "black hole" our non-mortgage household debt. I have deep aversion to any type of debt. Eventually my dad moved up the ranks and all this went away. When I entered college things changed and we ended up quite well off, to the point where I have no student debt thanks to my parents. Trough all of this, though, my parents were very clear that no matter how "difficult" (they labeled us as "poor") things were, people were much worse off than us.

xorfish 7y ago
> To this day I ask permission to my wife to buy most anything (she has a similar background and does the same). This is such a beneficial personal finance habit. It prevents lots of unnecessary spending on stuff you don't really need that would take up space in your place of living.
lonelappde 7y ago
If you are borrowing $200 every month and paying it back, you have a budgeting problem not an income problem. I hope the $200 loan was a trick your mom played to help you save money.
- phaedrus 7y ago

duelingjello 7y ago

Empathy, shame and the Golden Rule have to be taught. If not, feral kids tend to grow up to be self-absorbed, mean, psychopathic, selfish pricks. PS: I grew up middle class but am now completely destitute and semi-homeless.

danans 7y ago

As someone who fasts intermittently, and has come to understand the cognitive effects on the brain of caloric deprivation, it's saddening to think of a child experiencing a similar effect. Unlike a voluntary faster like me, the circumstance is completely out of the child's control and probably happening while they are facing any number of other family challenges. On top of that, they are in this condition while in school, where they are being evaluated for their cognitive performance. It really underlines the dire importance of things like free school breakfast, lunch and snack programs.