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AMD’s 64-Core Threadripper 3990X, only $3990 Coming February 7th

• faitswulff 7y ago
  The comments are mentioning the Xeons in Mac Pros and how Apple should switch. I have no factual basis for this, but I figure Apple has got to be using AMD's new chips as leverage to get some pretty sweet deals on Intel silicon.
  • wmf 7y ago
    Deals that Apple does not pass on to their customers.
    • nyx_ 7y ago
      So? As any corporate sack-chortler worth their salt will eagerly tell you, to seek rent is not only their prerogative but their moral duty.
    • jlgaddis 7y ago
      If people continue to pay Apple's (sometimes) outrageous prices, why should they lower them? (I'm just as guilty, having spent over two grand on MBPs multiple times!)
      • bcrosby95 7y ago
        Despite their price, there was a time when macbooks were only 5-10% more than the PC equivalent laptop. People that were complaining about its price were inevitably comparing it to bottom of the barrel PC laptops, not higher end business laptops that had comparable specs. I haven't priced out any recent macbooks to know if that's still true though. Glancing at the new 16" macbook pro, it seems like it might be reasonably priced for what you're getting.
        • Polylactic_acid 7y ago
          There is so much that goes in to a laptop that doesn't make it to the spec sheet either. People only look at a couple of specs to decide how much it should cost but some laptop makers put everything in to those specs and cheap out on everything else and you end up with a laptop with a fast CPU but brittle plastic, A TN display, a DAC that hisses and a whole bunch of other nastyness
        • x3sphere 7y ago
          Yeah, the MBP 16” is pretty comparable to the Dell XPS in price - at least when comparing base models. However, the costs go up a lot if you spec out a custom config (+$400 just for 32GB RAM). Then the MBP starts looking quite a bit more expensive. Overall I don’t think they’re a bad buy though if you want macOS.
          • tracker1 7y ago
            That said, the Mac pro, even starting at the base price is pretty outrageous... I mean, I get $500 for the case and $1500 for the MB, but the rest just seems to be too much in aggregate, and even more ridiculous for mfg upgrades out of the box.
          • ksec 7y ago
            >Yeah, the MBP 16” is pretty comparable to the Dell XPS in price - at least when comparing base models. The Dell XPS [1] with a comparable spec cost $1650 compare to MBP 16" $2399. In the old days Apple would have priced it closer to $2199 or slightly lower. Somewhere along the line they started making Mac same margins as iPhone. [1] https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/deals/new-xps-15-laptop/spd/xps-15-7590-laptop/xnber5cr656ps?view=configurations https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/deals/new-xps-15-laptop/spd/...
        • ksec 7y ago
          >Despite their price, there was a time when macbooks were only 5-10% more than the PC equivalent laptop. I seriously doubt 5-10%. You are talking about minimum $50 - $100+ dollar difference, that has never happened. Mac has always been roughly 20-30% more expensive than a laptop with comparable specs. So $1000 comparable spec laptop, Apple will sell you one for $1300, ( But with more expensive upgrades ) The 30% has been fine for years, the quality and finishing as well as macOS was well worth the price tag. But in recent years it hasn't been 30% at all.
      • JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
        As you lower the price, more people can and will buy your product giving you (hypothetically) more profits than before. I’d like to think Apple has done all their homework about what price point to sell at to maximize profit but honestly at this point I think they just make up whatever huge number they want for the Mac Pro price to make it seem cool and go with it. https://blog.asmartbear.com/price-vs-quantity.html https://blog.asmartbear.com/price-vs-quantity.html
      • kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        Don't feel too bad. 386 PCs used to sell for $15k in 2020 dollars.
        • james_s_tayler 7y ago
          When I was in high school in the early 2000s I had a friend who told me his parents purchased a 386 when they first came on the market where I live and they paid around $15k. My jaw just dropped. Then my friend just started chuckling at his parents folly when looking back even at that time it was such an expensive paperweight. Heck, thinking about it now it probably came up in conversation because at the time I had a hobby of picking up old computers that people had thrown out and cobbling together the working parts and built a 386 and a 486 that way. Good times.
      • jdkee 7y ago
        Apple has been successfully using the Good, Better, Best three-tiered pricing model for quite some time. I remember buying a Powerbook 140 at the time when I really wanted the 170 but could not justify the increased price. From wikipedia: "Intended as a replacement for the Portable, the 140 series was identical to the 170, though it compromised a number of the high-end model's features to make it a more affordable mid-range option. The most apparent difference was that the 140 used a cheaper, 10 in (25 cm) diagonal passive matrix display instead of the sharper active matrix version used on the 170. Internally, in addition to a slower 16 MHz processor, the 140 also lacked a Floating Point Unit (FPU) and could not be upgraded. It also came standard with a 20 MB hard drive compared with the 170's 40 MB drive."
        • wmf 7y ago
          So where's the "good" Mac with a PCIe slot?
      • AmericanChopper 7y ago
        The MBP isn’t even a very good example of Apple price gouging. Any other laptop that your can get for less money is likely to have rather significant trade-offs.
    • uncle_j 7y ago
      Why should they? The market dictates the price. If people are buying Apple products at those prices then why should Apple lower their prices? The answer is they shouldn't.
      • wmf 7y ago
        Ah yes, the "market" for macOS machines with PCIe slots.
        • uncle_j 7y ago
          While you may scoff enough people are willing to pay the extra for Mac OS and a high level workstation to justify their prices.
      • liquidise 7y ago
        Indeed it does. Which nicely explains the rising popularity of Hackintosh's, particularly among developers and other technologists. AMD Hackintosh's[1] in particular have skyrocketed in maturity and simplicity since Ryzen. 1: https://amd-osx.com/ https://amd-osx.com/
        • uncle_j 7y ago
          Apple are locking down the platform via proprietary chips etc. It isn't a long term solution and shouldn't be relied upon.
          • reanimus 7y ago
            To be fair, the Hackintosh community is pretty persistent. They added opcode emulation into the kernel, for example, to handle running on CPUs without the expected instructions (older AMD CPUs back in 10.8 or so). I wouldn't be surprised to see the cat-and-mouse continue.
            • close04 7y ago
              Wonder what happens when Apple starts "enforcing" a Tx chip to boot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Apple_T1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Appl...
    • tedunangst 7y ago
      Not much of a deal, but the price differential on the high end Mac Pro CPUs is actually slightly less than Intel list.
  • saagarjha 7y ago
    I'm sure Apple's own chip team works pretty good as leverage too.
  • SCdF 7y ago
    Unfortuntately Threadripper only ("only"..) supports 256GB of RAM, Mac Pros can go up to 1.5TB. So they definitely couldn't switch completely, and supporting both would be expensive for apple due to doubling mobos + testing + drivers etc, and confusing for the consumer because of the differing max RAM capabilities.
    • amiga-workbench 7y ago
      You're not considering AMD Epyc chips here, and Supermicro already have dual socket boards out that will take 2TB of RAM.
      • SCdF 7y ago
        You're right I wasn't, because I presumed those chips were clocked too low to be useful outside of server farms. I am not the audience for a Mac Pro though, maybe it's fine?
  • kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
    My hunch is that the ARM transition is coming sooner rather than later and instead of spending time and effort into rewriting a bunch of OS functions (like AirPlay Mirroring) to support AMD processors that lack Intel-only features like QuickSync, Apple is just going to drop the iOS pieces it has written for ARM64 into the MacOS (or whatever it's called) that runs on their upcoming ARM-based desktops and laptops. I mean, I wouldn't re-write code to support hardware-accelerated video transcoding on Ryzen+GPU if I knew that in 2-3 years I was moving from x86-64 to ARM64.
    • bob1029 7y ago
      How well would Premiere or Photoshop run on ARM? How long would it take to rewrite these apps to run natively (i.e. with acceptable performance) on an ARM platform? Until you can do video/photo/audio editing faster w/ ARM using existing software products, I do not see it being viable as a replacement for x86 in any of Apple's higher-end products. Perhaps ARM is included for sake of mobile development, but with 32+ modern x86 cores you could just as well emulate ARM and barely feel any overhead. Sure, there are a lot of neat tricks ARM can do with special instructions and hardware accelerators in very well controlled use cases. But, for the average creative professional who doesnt have time or patience to play with hyper-optimizing their workflow, having an x86 monster that can chew through any arbitrary workload (optimized or otherwise) is going to provide the best experience for the foreseeable future.
      • jdsully 7y ago
        Apple has dragged Photoshop kicking and screaming onto different platforms and even OS’ before. If they succeeded when they were nearly dead (OS X Cocoa timeframe) they will have no problems doing it now.
      • e12e 7y ago
        Like sibling comment says, it's not exactly the first cpu transition for Photoshop... > Photoshop 1 > Photoshop 1 (1990.01) requires a 8 MHz or faster Mac with a color screen and at least 2 MB of RAM. The first release of Photoshop was successful despite some bugs, which were fixed in subsequent updates. Most users ended up using version 1.07. Photoshop was marketed as a tool for the average user, which was reflected in the price ($1,000 compared to competitor Letraset’s ColorStudio, which cost $1,995). > Photoshop 1.x requires Mac System 6.0.3, 2 MB of RAM, a 68000 processor, and a floppy drive. Source: https://lowendmac.com/2013/photoshop-for-mac-faq/ https://lowendmac.com/2013/photoshop-for-mac-faq/
  • ksec 7y ago
    And 100 Comments but not a single mention or suggestion as to how would Apple deal with their vested interest in Thunderbolt. I would not be surprised if 90% of the PC shipped with Thunderbolt were from Apple. USB 4 is out, the Thunderbolt 3 spec has been out for quite a long time as well, and yet we dont even have a single announcement with USB 4 controller.
• OkGoDoIt 7y ago
  “consumer variant of the 64-core EPYC” At nearly $4000 for just the CPU, is that still consumer territory? I assume only huge companies would spend that much money on a single CPU.
  • Eikon 7y ago
    "Consumer" is used there for market segmentation, essentially to sell additional features in an other variant. More or less like consumer goods companies are using the "pro" keyword on pretty much any somewhat evolved product but the other way around.
  • CoolGuySteve 7y ago
    It's clocked at 2.9/4.3 instead of 2.0/3.4 like the 64 core EPYC part. So it's actually a lot faster than the server model. Kind of strange.
    • jedbrown 7y ago
      The EPYC still has double the bandwidth (8x vs 4x DDR4-3200).
    • nullc 7y ago
      my 7742's seem to spend essentially all their time while in heavy all core use at ~3.2. This isn't the same experience I've had with the consumer threadripper at all, so I don't think these numbers make for a simple comparison.
      • moonbug 7y ago
        which power profile do you have set- 225W or 240W?
        • nullc 7y ago
          Not sure, using a H11dsi. I don't recall setting it, though if I did I assume I would have picked the higher amount. :) My chips are pretty well cooled.
• ilaksh 7y ago
  I've been experimenting with some ideas for new ML approaches (not neural networks). I was thinking about playing around with FPGAs, which the high end ones are really expensive. 64 cores is making me think it probably is not worthwhile to focus on FPGAs or even necessarily GPU programming like I was thinking before.
  • dragontamer 7y ago
    With 64-lanes of PCIe on this Threadripper... why not all three? Plenty of PCIe space to afford a few GPUs to experiment with your 64-core CPU. You probably can shove 2x GPUs + 1x FPGA into one box.
    • ilaksh 7y ago
      Right and it is possible that by doing something like that the power of the system would be multiplied by many times. It's really more about the programming model.
      • dragontamer 7y ago
        I'm not sure if that's a big deal with a single box. Threadripper is only 300W+ under load. Idles for the CPU are ~100W for the whole system. (https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-threadripper-3960x-3970x-cpu-review/11/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-t...) GPUs are similar. GPUs take ~20W while idling, but 300W or 500W while under load. FPGAs are also similar. ------- The total system idle of a Threadripper + 2x GPU + FPGA rig probably is under 200W. If you happen to utilize the entire machine, sure, you'll be over 1000W. But you'll probably only utilize parts of the machine as you experiment and try to figure out the optimal solution. A "mixed rig" that can handle a variety of programming techniques is probably what's needed in the research / development phase of algorithms. Once you've done enough research, you build dedicated boxes that optimize the ultimate solution.
        • ilaksh 7y ago
          By power I meant compute power. Did not mean power draw.
• sytelus 7y ago
  So wouldn't this be like 2.6 TFLOPS? I'm thinking if this can replace NVidia V100s to train something like ImageNet purely on CPU. However, V100 has 100 TFLOPS which seems 50x more than 3990X. Perhaps, I'm reading the specs wrong? PS: Although FLOPS is not a good way to measure these stuff, it's a good indication of possible upper bound for deep learning related computation.
  • nneonneo 7y ago
    Nah, you’re probably not reading the specs wrong. GPU-type devices severely outclass CPUs in raw compute power. This has been true for years, and it’s why deep learning depends on them. But CPUs and GPUs fulfill very different niches computationally; GPUs are incredibly parallel but aren’t well-suited for serial tasks or tasks that require unpredictable branching/looping, which is pretty much exactly what CPUs are good at.
    • josh2600 7y ago
      Think of it like this: CPU’s do general computing. They’re super flexible but if you have a specific workload you might be able to use a different piece of silicon to get more performance. GPU’s do more parallelized computing but they don’t do as many different operations. They’re really good at doing a small not super complex fast but massively parallelized (like updating an array of pixels on a screen, for example). TPU’s are even more parallelized but the operations they do are even more specific and often simpler than the operations GPUs do.
      • hutzlibu 7y ago
        Aren't CPU's also slower, because they have a security overhead? (checking memory access, etc. which the gpu does not (so much))?
        • shaklee3 7y ago
          That's not really why they're slower. CPUs are significantly more complicated. Things like branch prediction, transactions, sophisticated prefetching all take up a lot of silicon.
• SXX 7y ago
  Can someone clarify what exactly is cut here compared to EPYC 7742 other than PCIe lines? I don't quite see really get how AMD want to avoid competing with their own product.
  • wmf 7y ago
    They also cut multi-socket and half the memory channels. It's only ~10% cheaper than Epyc 7702P so AMD is not hurting themselves.
    • SXX 7y ago
      Ah okay. I missed half of memory channels so it does make sense now.
  • mroche 7y ago
    The EYPC chips have twice the memory bandwidth as well, and allow for dual socket systems. I don't believe the enterprise security and management features are in their HEDT counterparts. Chips like these are for a specialty market, for those who are using applications and workloads that can actually take advantage of all those cores and aren't running a personal datacenter. You're not going to see this offered in any of the rack/blade systems offered by the likes of Dell, HPE, SuperMicro, Lenovo, etc where organizations are actually going to be purchasing EPYC chips.
• ChuckMcM 7y ago
  When I left Sun in 1995 their "biggest" Iron was the Enterprise 10K (which internally was called "Dragon" because of the Xerox bus) A system with 64 cores and 256GB of RAM was just under 2.5 million dollars list. It needed over 10kW of power provided by a 60A 240V circuit. The power cord weighed in at like 20 lbs. I put together a new desktop with the TR3960 and 128GB of ECC ram, that motherboard will take the 3990 and 256GB of RAM if I chose to upgrade it. It really boggles my mind what you can fit under your desk these days with a single 120V outlet.
  • chx 7y ago
    When the univ I went to at Budapest got a second hand VAX cluster (also around '95) for the bargain basement price of only 50 000 CHF they needed to dig up the street to the nearest substation and have a new powerline installed. http://hampage.hu/oldiron/vaxen/9000_4.jpg http://hampage.hu/oldiron/vaxen/9000_4.jpg the furthest away cabinet is the power supply. This photo is not even half of the cluster. A few years before that, at another univ, they put an ancient IBM mainframe in place with a crane, temporarily removing the roof of the building.
  • jacquesm 7y ago
    The thing that boggles my mind is what people casually put in their pockets.
    • solotronics 7y ago
      I think we already live in the cyberpunk/sci-fi realm in this regard. Soon we will have swarms of tiny AI powered robots...
      • andy_ppp 7y ago
        I was thinking about this for house building, you go to a panel and the bots that make up the house reconfigure themselves to add a swimming pool, or an extra guest room, etc. Could be pretty awesome. Let’s hope they are not used for evil :-/
• kchoudhu 7y ago
  How does Windows 10 licensing work for this number of cores?
  • samplatt 7y ago
    Same as always? Win10's license isn't restricted by cores, that's usually the domain of their server OS's and software.
    • jeroenhd 7y ago
      There used to be limitations on Windows regarding CPU count and maximum RAM size. With a consumer-level OS, you could not run more than two processors, for example. Given how earlier Ryzen acted like it was actually a bunch of NUMA nodes in the past, this could pose a problem (the normal version of Windows 7 wouldn't allow for a NUMA setup, you'd need Pro for that). I don't think Windows 10 has this limitation anymore but it's a very valid question. Given their weird calculation for the number of licenses you need to run Windows server, it's probably good to be cautious about licensing weggeweest it comes to running Windows on high performance chips like Threadripper.
      • josteink 7y ago
        > There used to be limitations on Windows regarding CPU count There still is. And the Threadripper is just one CPU, so you should be ok. With pro edition of Win 10 there should be support for up to 2 CPUs, with whatever amounts of cores they have.
  • OkGoDoIt 7y ago
    I believe you need the windows 10 “pro for workstations” edition Edit: according to this, the normal windows 10 pro edition would suffice. I feel like I’ve read conflicting things though, so take it with a grain of salt: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10/windows-10-versions-cpu-limits/905c24ad-ad54-4122-b730-b9e7519c823f?auth=1 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10...
  • ChuckNorris89 7y ago
• PHGamer 7y ago
  its a bit excessive in the prosumer market but these will make great cheap home lab machines.
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• tedunangst 7y ago
  16 cores per memory channel seems to be pushing it, if 47% cinebench improvement is any indication.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• sitzkrieg 7y ago
  i want one of these solely to shave days off of waiting for fpga synthesis. even on a 3900x and smaller hobby board things can take hours now whether its worth selling a body organ to kit out..
• gameswithgo 7y ago
  i think the smart buy (for most) is still the 32 core threadripper. it is a lot less money with much higher clocks and is less likely to be ram throughput starved.
• geokon 7y ago
  This is a bit tangential but maybe someone could give me a some advice. When running with many cores is there some way to get the Linux kernel to run them at a fixed frequency? I've been doing multicore work lately on AWS - which works pretty well but you don't get access to event counters so sometimes I'm having trouble zeroing in on what the performance bottleneck is. At higher core counts I get weird results and I can never tell what's really going on. Running locally I have concerns about random benchmark noise like thermal throttling, "turbo" and other OS/hardware surprises (I know on modern chips single thread stuff can run really different from when you load all the cores). I've been thinking of getting something a bit dumber like an old 16 core Xeon (I'm on a bit of a budget) and clocking it down - or maybe there is some better solution?
  • signa11 7y ago
    > When running with many cores is there some way to get the Linux kernel to run them at a fixed frequency? just a wild thought: have you looked at 'cpupower frequency-set' ? it _might_ help.
  • alvern 7y ago
    I don't have a answer to your frequency problem but I ran into similar issues with memory usage when trying to process LIDAR data in pandas and keras. I ended up buying an old HP quad xeon 4U with 320gb of DDR3 for $330 shipped. I used https://labgopher.com/ https://labgopher.com/ to find the server deals.
    • tracker1 7y ago
      Thanks for sharing labgopher... would have made my own search much easier last year.
    • geokon 7y ago
      oh wow. thanks for the info. I saw some decent deals on newegg, but not that low it's a big chunk of metal, but it would make life easier for some stuff
  • SCdF 7y ago
• rafaelvasco 7y ago
  Having a blast with Ryzen 5 3600X. Only problem is that Win10 appears to have a bug with it. Stutters all over. Only stopped when I reinstalled the newest chipset drivers and set the Ryzen Balanced energy profile. Windows default energy profiles all stutter, fans make too much noise etc. Now it stays variating clock from ~3.8 to ~4.2. Before it was fixed at 3.79.
  • snarfy 7y ago
    It sounds like your CPU fan isn't seated properly.
    • rafaelvasco 7y ago
      Well, doesn't sound like it. I've seen this problem reported by other people. At least it appears to be solved now.
  • swebs 7y ago
    Have you tried it in Linux? When the first Threadrippers came out, I remember seeing people having all sorts of problems with them in Windows 10, with the same machines running in Linux outputting double the performance.
    • rafaelvasco 7y ago
      Yeah, probably a Win10 driver issue. When i updated it, it fixed it. Before i event got a BSOD because of it.
  • agilebyte 7y ago
    That was an issue on my (and other people's) super low budget Asrock motherboard. Fan profile in BIOS and/or the energy profile in Windows fixes it.
    • rafaelvasco 7y ago
      Yeah, mine is a msi mpg x570 gaming plus if i remember correctly. Probably a driver bug.
• robviren 7y ago
  Some product manager smiled as they entered in the pricing for this product. Screw the margin, make it match the SKU.
  • IanCutress 7y ago
    True story, AMD's original price was different. I suggested this price in a pre-briefing the night before. I got an email at 4am of the announcement to say it had been changed.
• naveen99 7y ago
  When can I buy the new amd vega 2 without having to purchase a Mac Pro ?
• hamidul 7y ago
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• ComputerGuru 7y ago
  I haven’t seen any reviews taking into account the price of unregistered DDR4 RAM at the densities required to use these things. AMD is suggesting 2GB/core or 128GB, but these HEDT CPUs cannot support the typical registered RAM used by server memory kits and require unregistered desktop RAM (for market segmentation, you see) which can be (depending on SKU) quite a bit more expensive. I feel any price comparisons with Epyc or Xeon need to take that into account.
• hamidul 7y ago
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• hamidul 7y ago
  UFC 246: MCGREGOR VS. COWBOY LIVE ONLINE Live link:>>> http://bit.ly/35MytIa http://bit.ly/35MytIa Live link:>>> http://bit.ly/35MytIa http://bit.ly/35MytIa You can watch the newest UFC fight on ESPN+, which is ESPN’s OTT service that doesn’t require a cable subscription to operate. 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