17 ms·

Moving to Germany as an Australian (2016)

105 points by ericdanielski 7y ago

looki 7y ago
Regarding the trains, >They are usually on time and cover basically everywhere worth visiting in Europe. He has a very ungerman definition of usually on time :) There's probably not a bigger laughing stock in Germany than our trains (Okay, there is BER). The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time [1]. If you have tight transfers to make, that can get very annoying. I also thought the ICE and non-ICE dichotomy was funny. I would split them into long-distance (IC, ICE, EC) and regional (RE, RB, S-Bahn). [1]: https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen_fakten/puenktlichkeitswerte-1187696 https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen... (Db-Fernverkehr tab)
- deleted 7y ago
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- learnstats2 7y ago
  > The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time. By standards I am familiar with, that's good. Last time I checked, my local train station had trains arriving within 10 minutes only 50% of the time.
  - mtmail 7y ago
    "In Germany, there are two kinds of "on time". So far [2017], 94.2% of trains have reached their final destination within six minutes of the scheduled time, and 98.9% within 16 minutes." The article also goes into detail how every country measures punctuality differently. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42024020 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42024020 (Yes, Germans love to complain about the train company)
    - darzu 7y ago
      I really wish articles like this put these numbers into a table or graph. Does anyone know of a table comparing train punctuality?
    - lucb1e 7y ago
      > 94.2% of trains have reached their final destination within six minutes of the scheduled time That's a terrible statistic. First off, connections are designed to be just a few minutes, so 5 minutes delay (not included in this stat) makes you miss an average connection. Secondly, that statistic is about trains, not people: one could manage to have 50% of people be delayed by 30-60 minutes every day and still have 94.2% of trains run on time just by having only the busiest trains between 8-9h and 16-18h delayed enough to miss people's local connection. Finally, the final destination says nothing about intermediate stops (why not just look at every stop?). Things like switching drivers, refueling, or just introducing some slack in the schedule is most often done at endpoints. Heck, if I know this is the statistic being used, I would be sure to design my schedules to have even more leeway at the endpoints than I otherwise already would. I'm curious to see how this statistic changes when it includes intermediate stops and counts delayed passengers rather than empty trains running on time. Optionally, counting the full delay (missed connection / actual frustration) instead of the technical train delay would also be interesting. As one datapoint, my girlfriend takes a train from Cologne in rush hour that is 4-20 minutes late more than half the time, with a connecting bus that goes once an hour that is always on time or even early. She usually misses it.
      - merb 7y ago
        also this statistic is favored towards the north of the country. because there are way more trains. he lives in the south I guess (near munich) probably which has way less trains for regional traffic
    - cosmodisk 7y ago
      I see Germans taking best lessons from English counterparts... Reached last destination my ass...
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    75% punctual is good? Because I usually use the long-distance train when I need to go somewhere, not to go for a drink, and having a 1 in 4 chance of being late at a customer's or missing a plane... I dunno, that's not really a chance you want to take, so you end up planning for 1-2 hours of delay every single time, depending on how bad it is if you're late due to no fault of your own (a departing plane won't care but a customer might understand).
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >75% punctual is good? Because I usually use the long-distance train when I need to go somewhere, not to go for a drink, and having a 1 in 4 chance of being late at a customer's or missing a plane... If you're gonna miss a plane because a train is more than 5 minutes late (I'm guessing closer to 10 or so, not 30), then you didn't plan your trip to the airport that well...
      - lucb1e 7y ago
        Right, so you have to build in slack yourself, i.e. you can't rely on the "high punctuality" of 75%. They might as well be 1% punctual and, unless the amount of delay also increases, it wouldn't change a thing.
      - cosmodisk 7y ago
        While I agree with you on the planning part, it still doesn't chsnge the fact thst a train can't reach all the stations on time, despite having a predefined schedule,almost no traffic and etc.
      - CodesInChaos 7y ago
        10 mins delay is often enough to miss a connecting train, forcing you to wait for the next one, which is typically 1h later than the previous one. So planning for a 1-2h delay on a multi-leg train journey is prudent, if you need to be on time.
    - esrauch 7y ago
      When I used to take Amtrak in the US routinely for a 6 hour ride I believe it was 0% punctual by a definition much much weaker than that. I don't believe it was literally ever delayed less than 30 minutes. Also in the US airports you can't always rely on security being less than 30 minutes (barring TSA precheck), so the idea of missing a flight because the train was 10 minutes late is an absurd thought here. I lived in Europe for the past couple years and as an American it really is shocking how drastic the understanding of public transit fundamentally is in the minds of the public at large.
  - holri 7y ago
    In Austria this number is 86,6% (long distance, max 5 min late) Austrians also travel the most by train in the EU. (a coinicidence?)
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    I was in Switzerland recently and they put German trains to shame. I dont think we were ever more than a minute behind schedule. As soon as we crossed into Konstanz the scheduling went to shit
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  > The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time The author is an Australian, and is therefore almost certainly most impressed by the fact that long-distance trains exist in any meaningful way at all. Our long distance trains certainly don't have a reputation for punctuality.
  - joshschreuder 7y ago
    Our short distance ones definitely don't either (in Melbourne, at least)
    - deleted 7y ago
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- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Here in the US, Amtrak considers within 30 minutes to be "on time"... and struggles a lot even with that. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-amtrak-cant-run-trains-on-time/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-amtrak-cant-run-trains-on-t... > The Coast Starlight, which runs between Seattle and Los Angeles, had an on-time performance of 4 percent in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30. For the California Zephyr, connecting Chicago and San Francisco, the figure was 7 percent. In the current fiscal year, the California Zephyr has not once arrived on time.
  - glofish 7y ago
    ok but the California Zephyr covers 4000 km - that's like going from Madrid to Moscow - I doubt any train or set of trains over that distance ever arrives on time.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Amtrak doesn't fare much better when you evaluate it on smaller sections of the routes. Not owning the rails tends to put them at the mercy of freight trains. I've seen some of the longer routes on https://asm.transitdocs.com/map https://asm.transitdocs.com/map have 1-2 day delays marked at times. I arrived eight hours late the last time I went from Rochester to NYC (~500 km). Look at https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2019/12/13/19 https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2019/12/13/19 and you'll see it's been losing substantial time at almost every stop along the way. Ride some Swiss or German trains and then try out Amtrak and the difference will be difficult to deny.
      - glofish 7y ago
        Sure, I got no love for Amtrak. Just pointing out that we should criticize it for short trips not 4000km ones.
        rayiner 7y ago
        Amtrak’s on time performance on the northeast corridor, which it owns, is miserable too.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >He has a very ungerman definition of usually on time :) There's probably not a bigger laughing stock in Germany than our trains (Okay, there is BER). The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time [1]. If you have tight transfers to make, that can get very annoying. Then don't arrange for "tight transfers"? If "within 5 minutes" (or close, I'm guessing the rest of the time would be some "unbearable" late of 10 minutes or so?) messes your schedule you have a messed up schedule.
  - ajdlinux 7y ago
    I don't know about German train schedules specifically, but in life in general while avoiding tight transfers is generally a good idea sometimes you just have no say in the matter.
  - wander_homer 7y ago
    Their official route planer uses those "tight transfers" by default and calls them "Normal transfer duration".
    - distances 7y ago
      What happens in Germany if you lose your connection due to the train being late? In Finland the train company is responsible for ensuring you get to your destination (with taxi if needed) if the train rides were bought as a single trip.
      - realityking 7y ago
        Same here if the entire journey is booked on one ticket. I’ve taken a Taxi from Cologne to Aachen (~75km) on Deutsche Bahn’s dime. Unfortunately Deutsche Bahn is not very up-front about these option (e.g. with vouchers) and you have to expense that taxi ride or hotel after the fact. A lot of people are scared of that as they’re not sure if they’ll get the money back.
        currysausage 7y ago
- cosmodisk 7y ago
  Well...The local operators,here in London,solved the stats issue this way: if a train is late, it skips many stations and still arrive to the end station on time. Guess what,all the stats are produced on first- last ststion basis...
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    Eh. Same thing in Belgium. Only time of arrival in the last station is taken into account to classify a journey as being late or on time.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Same idea but slightly different trick was being used when I was at university. Aberystwyth-Birmingham New Street was regularly terminated at Wolverhampton, so that it has gone far enough to count as “not cancelled” and because it didn’t get to BNS late it also “wasn’t late”.
  - burntoutfire 7y ago
    What happens to people who want to onboard on the skipped stations?
    - nmnim 7y ago
      I'm not in London but up north, and it's the same here. In my experience you have to wait until the next connecting train, or buy a new ticket and catch a suburban train from a different company that takes 3x as long. This one is sometimes late and will skip your station. I've missed work (seminar teaching, short and time-sensitive, so not just a case of arriving late and staying late) because of cancellations and trains going through my station rather so they can be on time to Leeds or wherever.
- chillfox 7y ago
  I don't know about trains, but where I live in Australia buses can be up to one hour late.
  - cylinder 7y ago
    I live in Sydney and my train is literally never late, always to the minute. I'm just slightly out of peak (just after 9am).
    - cyphar 7y ago
      This might depend what line you're on. If you were on the massive T1 loop before they split it, a few late trains were almost a certainty during peak hours. If you live at Bondi it's unlikely your trains will be late because the line is so short. Don't get me wrong, I do think we complain a little too much about public transport in Sydney (when in reality, it's actually fine most of the time). But it definitely does have some pretty serious flaws (too many single points of failure is the most obvious one -- especially the Strathfield-Paramatta stretch of track which is core to the running of 7 [out of 9] different lines without any way to route around it).
  - 0xdeadb00f 7y ago
    Or they just don't show up at all.
  - fl0under 7y ago
    Here in Adelaide (South Australia) I've found the buses have improved a lot over the last decade, usually right on time, only with the occasional delay (like 5-10 mins). There are real time data available for our transport system which I find to be super useful so I can leave to get to a stop at the right time.
- netsharc 7y ago
  And he praises the food in the ICE trains... It shows he's Australian and earned a lot at BMW, the food on ICE trains are severely overpriced.
  - rurban 7y ago
    Could be that he used a czech ICE train operating the Prague-Berlin line over Dresden. This is mostly on time and serves good czech food. I wouldn't recommend eating on German trains as foreigner. Germans have similar food standards as British, the lowest end of the food chain. EDIT: Bavaria is different though. They actually have a different food tradition, more towards the more civilised countries Austria, Czech, Italy.
    - phreeza 7y ago
      That is a EC, not an ICE, I think. Often full with drunk tourists sadly.
    - dejv 7y ago
      Well Prague - Berlin is not ICE train but EC train, but yeah the food in there is good and cheap. The best food was always on Berlin - Budapest route with Hungarian restaurant car. Great goulash in there, but this train now terminate in Prague.
- RileyJames 7y ago
  We have low standards. The Victorian “high speed rail project” cost $750M to increase our regional (long distance enough) trains to a whopping 165 km/h. Here’s the kicker, when it gets hot, they have to slow down. And when I say hot, I mean, 36C (96F). And by slow down I mean 90km/h. Welcome to Australia, that’s half a month per year. And it’s getting hotter. [bom](http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num=086071&p_prim_element_index=0&p_comp_element_index=0&redraw=null&p_display_type=full_statistics_table&normals_years=1981-2010&tablesizebutt=normal http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num=086071&p...) They can be delayed by such long periods they’re replaced by buses. When you arrive is anyone’s guess.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    You linked climate data that included 1981-2010. When you actually search all of the historic data in the drop down, you'll find that there's no significant trend in # of days >35C since 1861. 1981-2010 did show 10.8 for that figure, but the periods 1871-1900, 1881-1910, 1891-1920, and 1901-1930 all showed around the same figure, at 10.8, 11.2, 11.1, and 10.2 respectively. It looks more like a cyclical trend in Melbourne heat.
    - RileyJames 7y ago
      “It’s getting hotter” was based on “all data” vs 81-2010. Which shows an increase. (>30, 30 -> 32.1 & >35, 10 -> 10.8) Additionally based on an abc podcast, the signal, which stated that since 1987 summer temperatures have been above average. [the signal](https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-signal/changing-summers/11786298 https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-signal/changing-su...) Let’s not get into a climate change debate. It’s not going to get significantly colder to the point where these trains are going to run on time more often.
      - chrisco255 7y ago
        I just quoted four other 30 year periods in the late 1800s and early 1900s that were just as hot or hotter than 81-10. You are just comparing an above average period with an average over 150 years. Ok, that says nothing, if the data set is cyclical and you cherry pick a trough or a peak to make a point, you're being dishonest. I wouldn't bet that.
- bitL 7y ago
  Heuristics for train delays: Does the train pass Frankfurt? Add 15-30 minutes. Otherwise expect your train within 5 minutes of its scheduled arrival/departure.
  - enqk 7y ago
    Yes unfortunately we made that experience many times. When you buy tickets from bahn.de, increase the default connection time, theirs is way too low and results in missed connections frequently.
    - kaybe 7y ago
      More rules: - Get as few train changes as possible. (Being a few minutes late is no issue if there are no connections to miss.) - Any changes should be in big hubs. (You might be offered a route with a change in a smaller station, but if you miss the connection the next train might be hours off. If you change in a hub there will be many others.) - Don't take the last connection of the day for the last leg of the journey, you might miss the connection and be stranded. Even worse if it's a small station (offices will be closed if there are even any there, there will be services like hotel and taxi somewhere but have fun finding them).
  - nmnim 7y ago
    I lived in Frankfurt for a year and now I live in England. I was so frustrated at DB and RMV when my trains were a bit late (3-5 mins for RMV, 15-20 for long DB) once in a while. Now I take a regular train from my town to a city and I've literally only caught it on time TWICE in two years. Usually 20-30 minutes late or suddenly cancelled. Trains here are a whole different level of bad.
    - bitL 7y ago
      Privatisation did "wonders" to British rail transport system...
- fit2rule 7y ago
  As an Australian who also moved to Germany and Austria, I can say that the trains are very impressive in this part of the world - until you go to Berlin. Berlin trains will drive you absolutely mad. I was fine with German trains - impressed, even - until I tried to get around Berlin for a few weeks by way of the local train systems. The only thing I can compare it to, is British trains, which are absolutely terrible .. Berlin is like that.
  - distances 7y ago
    > Berlin trains will drive you absolutely mad. Can you expand a bit, punctuality or what? In Berlin trains are sometimes a bit clunky, sometimes a bit late, but I absolutely love the Berlin public transport system.
    - fit2rule 7y ago
      It might've just been my luck, its not unusual, but there are a few things I've noticed about the time I lived in Germany which might be colouring things. Every single town will have some road-work happening, somewhere. If there isn't any road-work in your purview, you probably don't know the German town very well, and just haven't seen the current street work yet. This seems to have been the case with Berlins' rail system while I was there, during a particular summer. Now, don't get me wrong - I love public transportation, and Europe, Germany in particular, loves it too. Its wonderful, and Berlin by common rail is a delight. So I often got on the per-the-map "right" train, only to find there was construction work and we had to take the bus around the stations and then .. another train .. to get to destination X. Well, I'm a competent Euro- rail fanatic, should be easy. Just: nope. Every week I got tripped up by not grok'ing where I was supposed to be to find the bus. I confess, it might've just been me being dizzied by the delights of the city otherwise, but I did get to walk and catch quite a few Korkmännchen. Every other German city I've visited (and there are quite a few worth the trip yet), has had absolutely decent, reliable rail. Best is Wuppertal with the Schwebebahn.. but boy, did I ever get lost in Berlin.
      - mkohlmyr 7y ago
- croisillon 7y ago
  that reminds of an amusing time i went to buy a train ticket at dresden main railway station, back in 2003: - i'd like a ticket for the next train to prag - ok, 17:25 or 19:25? - but it's 17:30 already? - so what? the train is still on station
  - lioeters 7y ago
    That reminds me of an amusing time I spent overnight at the back of the Munich train station, in the cold Autumn wind, with German homeless people (several spoke English) drinking beer. The reason? Had to transfer from one train to another in Munich - it was around 7pm, I believe - and had assumed from cultural stereotype that German trains would be precisely on time. First one was 10~15min late, missed my connection, and the next one to my destination was the following morning. The person at the counter suggested sleeping in the waiting room, which was full of people on the chairs and on the floor. Lesson learned.. Edit: The lesson is, as another commenter stated below, increase the time between transfers from the default in Deutsche Bahn's online reservation system.
- fhars 7y ago
  Speaking about the punctuality of German trains, there will be a talk at 36C3 from someone who collected all the actual departure and arrival times of all long distance trains in Germany for this year: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2019/Fahrplan/events/10652.html https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2019/Fahrplan/events... The talk will be streamed. It is in German, but there will be a simultaneous translation into English and probably some other language.
onreact 7y ago
Some fun albeit superficial information. You forgot to mention that Australians are not simply allowed to move here. Having a job or at least money to support yourself is a prerequisite. A friend of my wife is from Australia and she had a hard time to prove she's not a burden to Germany even though she basically lives off renting her house in Australia and selling her art so that she is quite well off. Also Germany likes foreigners who have white skin. When you don't you risk getting interned straight at the airport. As you have committed no crime and you are legally not in Germany you have no rights to get a lawyer etc. People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious.
- thepete2 7y ago
  Is he talking about immigration though? Or does he simply have a visa? > People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious. I've never heard of any extraterritorial prisons here. Can you elaborate / source this?
- chki 7y ago
  >People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious. Not regarding anything else you are claiming this is quite an outrageous claim and I have no recollection of such things going on in Germany for the last few years. It would also be a severe violation of the German constitution if this would be happening (extraterritoriality doesn't matter) not even mentioning the European Charter of Human Rights and other important Human Rights treaties. Edit: I would be very interested in hearing about some concrete examples. If this is happening (which I somewhat doubt) there is definitely not enough spotlight on it in the Public Debate in Germany.
  - Perenti 7y ago
    This kind of detention definately happens in Australia, or more precisely in concentration camps paid for by the Australian Government in other Pacific nations. Makes me ashamed to be Australian.
lucb1e 7y ago
> [My car is] impractical with only two doors and four seats I like four doors, but only two isn't too bad (drove one of those for five years). Seats though, is it normal to own a bus in Australia? The people I would expect to own a car with more than two rows of seats are families with 4+ kids, which is nobody here. I've recently been thinking about a 2-seater to save on gas/CO2 since I have no kids anyway and you can always rent or borrow a car for that one time a year that you need it (since friends and family have 4-seaters, when we want to go somewhere, we can go with their car and pay for drinks or whatever). Of course, I'm in an exceptional situation with only a girlfriend and no plans for kids. I just can't help but wonder if this "4 seats is impractical" statement comes from being scared of "but what if I need it one day and then I don't have the option?" when logically, it is really much cheaper to rent a van once every four years than permanently own a huge car. > The trains are so awesome in Germany hah, try the Netherlands. Living in Germany for more than a year now, I think the trains here are quite crappy. Not unusable or filthy, but also not like the Netherlands. And the ICEs go 300km/h, not 250, and are very unreliable punctuality-wise. Related: "You also won’t find automated checkouts [in Germany]." again, try the Netherlands :) > it’s normal for all shops to be closed except for servos (there’s a confusing word for Germans) Eh, I'll say. Servo(s) only exists in merriam-webster as well as the community-based dict.cc as I know it: a motor. Is this from a Brisbane dialect or something?
- blattimwind 7y ago
  For cars that exist in both three and five door versions the three door version is usually worse for tight spaces, because the doors are bigger and the front seats more forward relative to the back of the door. Three doors / four seats seem to be less common these days, though.
- sjwright 7y ago
  > is it normal to own a bus in Australia? No. The market for three row vehicles exists but is small, served mostly by a few mid-sized* SUVs with a third row only suitable for small children. Most people I know with families of 5 make do with two row vehicles. The modal private car in Australia is a five door hatchback (Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla) closely followed by the compact* crossover (Mazda CX-5, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester). Work vehicles are dominated by "utes", which are small or medium* pickup trucks (Toyota HiLux, Ford Ranger). Three door/two row cars used to be common as the base ("poverty") specification of some small economy hatchbacks—but it appears this trend has completely died away. Toyota's cheapest new vehicle is a five door, for example. Three door/two row hatchbacks are horrid things: worse for the customer in every respect and any cost savings probably offset by increased chassis development costs and SKU counts. * Per the North American lexicon. Australia and the rest of the world sizes cars a bit differently.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
> the bottom floor is 0, not the ground floor In the elevator sure, though just as often it's abbreviated EG for Erdgeschoss, which does mean ground floor. We call the floor above that "erstes Geschoss" or "erstes Obergeschoss", whereas that would be the second floor in English, but we never say "nulltes Geschoss", always Erdgeschoss. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Erdgeschoss https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Erdgeschoss
- DominikPeters 7y ago
  Calling the ground floor “first floor” is a North American thing, and everyone else (including UK) agrees with German numbering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storey
doopfoopdoop 7y ago
Edit: removed. (My post was too negative and was just me venting.)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lainga 7y ago
  It's a shame. If a country can't show you its culinary best at a university cafeteria, where else can you go?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - quelltext 7y ago
    There it is: Don't eat at cheap places. I really wouldn't bash a country's food based on bottom tier experience. I have to agree though that it's easy to end up in a bad place and in Germany there's no limit to how disgusting it can get. Germans do seem to have a higher tolerance for this. Of course nothing beats the university cafeteria but I don't know anyone who likes that food, it's just that the typical student cannot afford to avoid it. On the other hand there are not that many countries I can think of with high standard of living and minimum wage where food is consistently great even when comparatively cheap.
    - blattimwind 7y ago
      You can eat very cheaply in Germany, but if you do that, you probably can't complain about the quality.
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        Food prices are very low in Germany. They are extremely low, if you cook yourself and even restaurants are not that expensive in international comparison. But indeed, if you go to extremely cheap places, you can have really bad food too - but that is independant of the food style. They make bad Italian food too :).
quelltext 7y ago
> It’s also more difficult for me as a I have a US layout keyboard at home and a German layout at work. I'd hate tp be forced to use a specific layout governed by my employer and I'm glad it's not been a problem so far to get a replacement keyboard with US layout. It's pretty common nowadays for developers to simply prefer the US layout if their country's is not great, like the German one that makes typing braces etc. a pain in the ass.
- FabHK 7y ago
  At any rate, learn to to touch type blind, and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software (and ignore what’s printed on the keys). My mom can do it; I’d expect any programmer to be able to do it.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    > and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software If only. They have a different shape shift and enter key. It's not impossible to type on different keyboards at home and at work without mixing it up too much, but it is annoying, and not just a software configuration. (Source: am Dutch, live in Germany, have different keyboards at home and at work because I don't want to throw one away when it still works fine even if it's a little annoying.)
  - bori5 7y ago
    being able to program does not necessarily mean you can touch type blind
  - sfgweilr4f 7y ago
    You can connect the two and infer interesting facts, but programming ability has nothing to do with blind touch typing. You can have zero skill in one and be great in the other. Yes I've met programmers who can't touch type. Their "hunt and peck" is faster than a lot of other people's touch typing. Programmers tend to have better typing skills in general than other people. But speed wise, real[1] touch typists leave general programmers[2] in the dust. This should not be a surprise. [1] Touch typists who are specialized for typing speed as first priority. This doesn't generally include programmers because they are specialized for programming and typing is really just a secondary skill in being able to use "a tool of trade". [2] Someone will now suggest that they happen to have practiced for a week and can beat everyone they know. Well done. Now you're still not a specialized touch typist... A real touch typist just needs to practice more and will still likely beat you. Or it could be argued they type faster due to characters/week.
magicbuzz 7y ago
Interesting! And I think it's a good alternative to the typical 'work in the valley for a few years' that many Oz devs do. He seems to be working for Facebook in London now.
fefe23 7y ago
I would be interested in the other direction. Would anyone from the EU who moved to Australia care to tell us about their experiences?
- BFLpL0QNek 7y ago
  Trains are meh. The average train speed is 50km/h, so living out in the suburbs is a long slow commute. What should be a 20-30 min journey can be 1hr plus. Forget interstate travel as each state has different line standards. "She'll be right mate" the stereotypical image of Aussies, not so true at least these days. Highly litigious, lots of red tape, and following strict rules, love their fines, if they can fine it they'll be a fine for it! You often find police officers in Sydney CBD fining pedestrians for crossing the road or police sniffer dogs around the train stations randomly plucking commuters for strip searches. Australia often gets a bad write up from the UN on social justice, take the encryption laws rushed in as an example. The car is king. In the EU if you cross the road in a safe manner, cars will back off the accelerator. In Australia, it's a case you shouldn't be on the road, so they speed up intentionally to hit you. Similarly, if you want to cycle, you better be brave. Driving standards seem far worse. On the topic of cars they have high import duties so your average European car becomes very expensive. Instead, there's tons of Toyota Hillux's and Corollas, Landcruiser, etc and the odd Holden but they've stopped being produced in the AU so don't seem as popular as they once were. It's impossible or near impossible to eat out after 8 pm. Shops close at 6 pm so no after work shopping. Sydney has zero nightlife for an international city, it's like a ghost town now after dark. They introduced "lock out laws" essentially killing the nightlife as bars close early, prevent you from getting into bars after a specific time, and limiting drinks that can be purchased over a specific time. They have recently backed down from this and reducing the restrictions in the new year. The damage has been done, bars have shut and turned in to apartments. A high cost of living. You have two grocery stores, Coles and Woolworths, so far less variety. There is a third chain called IGA that tries to carry a little higher quality produce, you see them more in smaller towns. Being so far from anywhere, it's a long journey to travel outside of Australia. Perth to Sydney is a 5hr flight, a 5hr flight you've crossed Europe. Australia is on fire, the prime minister denies climate change and walks into parliament with cole saying don't be afraid it's only cole, kind of sets the standard. Tech jobs, you get your usual low barrier agency knocking out website jobs writing javascript. Then the other popular work is big data doing questionable stuff with user data or cryptocurrencies. When you search on Linkedin, for example, for EU jobs or US jobs compared to Australia, Australia's availability of meaningful, interesting, well-paying tech jobs is lacking/behind other parts of the world. Some do exist but few and far between. The computer science degrees here must be good though worked with some very smart Aussie's. The US companies tend to cherry-pick the graduates due to the special AU-US visa agreements. The housing they've yet to discover double glazing/insulation. A lot of the properties look like they haven't been renovated since the 70's. Slight ignorance that insulation works to keep the heat inside during the winter and heat out during the summer when the aircon is on. Also the mean Sydney house price is $1million +, although that $1 million won't buy you what you'd expect for a $1 million house. Instead, you'd get some shitbox that needs renovating or what is popular knocking down and turning in to apartments. On the plus side, if you like an active outdoor lifestyle, it's fantastic. If you like the beach it has them, bushwalking, lots of that, outdoor sports lots of that. Great coffee that's down to the high multiculturalism, although there's is a lot of quiet racism the more regional you go. Also in the cities etc food is really good. I eat out a lot more in the AU for brunch and dinner. Lots of variety from AU / EU style food to Asian etc. Work-life balance is generally ok. It's certainly a comfortable lifestyle. There's also less crime. I've never walked down a street or through a suburb that's felt unsafe. Life is good in the AU if you get a tech salary, it's a bit of a bubble, though compared to the rest of the world due to the isolation. I don't love it, I don't hate it, it's comfortable, for now. My partner is Australian, so I'll be sticking around as she wants to be here when we start a family. We did plan to go overseas to Europe for a little while to live and work, but due to the mess of the UK and brexit that might not be as easy as we thought. I'm currently waiting on my permanent visa to come through so we can make our next plans until then it's hard for us to plan ahead. Australia, the lucky country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country
barrkel 7y ago
Worth noting that the chap is now in London.
lumberjack 7y ago
If you want to move to Germany don't underestimate how hard it is to have a social life around here, especially if moving alone. It is the one thing that seems a constant, whenever I talk with other foreigners. Even Germans seem to find it hard to have friends when they relocate away from their previous social lives.
- himlion 7y ago
  Same goes for the Netherlands, it's the number one complaint I hear from expats in Amsterdam.
- cjslep 7y ago
  As someone who moved to Switzerland from America, Germans and Germany seems easier to integrate with than integrating in Switzerland. To be fair, I'm learning High German and not my local Schwiizertüütsch.
  - benhurmarcel 7y ago
    German-speaking Swiss is like Germany on hard mode
- kfk 7y ago
  I think the issue is that here in Germany there is a lot of unspoken peer pressure in regards to where you should be in life at your age. That pressure makes it hard to keep things in a flow and basically people (German and expats) tend to put a structure around everything. Social interactions? Needs to happen at the appropriate time and scheduled at least 2 weeks in advance. Fancy restaurant dinner with girlfriend? Needs to be scheduled weeks before. Work life balance? You must have work life balance and you must go out on sunny days, which is great until it feels again like pressure to be something you don't want to be. Hiking? You will find another zillion people on that mountain because again you are supposed to go out on sunny days. It can feel very "robotic" and I think people just end up detaching themselves from what they truly want or truly need from their social interactions.
  - 7y ago
marcus_holmes 7y ago
I moved from Perth to Berlin. The biggest thing that hit me was the alcohol. I can buy a (good!) beer at anytime (even 3am) for about 2 euros from a spati ("late shop"- like a deli but mostly selling beer), and then walk around in the open air drinking it. All the supermarkets sell alcohol all day(and so cheap). People gather by the canals in summer, just drinking and talking. No-one seems to get drunk, there's no violence or shouting. It's such a pleasant change. Also smoking in bars. I don't smoke, but I don't mind it.Ny gf hates it and prefers to sit outside in the cold rather than inside in the smoke. The bureaucracy is about the same - Aussie bureaucracy is less finicky but feels more hostile. People are people. Though Germans seem less angry than Aussies. I always wonder why Australia seems such an angry place after travelling abroad. The graffiti and street art is also striking. Perth goes in for tagging, but not on the same scale or creativeness as Berlin. I really like it, but I understand why other people don't. I'm really enjoying my time here. Miss the beach, though.
- fit2rule 7y ago
  I'm also from Perth, lived around the world, including some years in Germany .. had the same set of observations. On this: >I always wonder why Australia seems such an angry place after travelling abroad. I think Australia has a lot of deep pain in its history, and in its culture, and this manifests in a hostility. Every time I go back, I wonder why its such an angry shithole. Australians just seem to be getting madder and madder... EDIT: Germany does have deep pain in its history. Germans are aware of that, and overt about it. Australians not so much.
  - geowwy 7y ago
    I've traveled around a bit but haven't noticed Australians are more angry than anyone else. Interested in this comment.
    - zizee 7y ago
      I'm not sure if it is a thing unique to Australia, but there are seem to be a lot of Australian's that have a chip on their shoulder and will tell anyone that will listen to them about how badly Australian's do things/behave. I suspect they have not traveled very much, or just feel better doing something similar to self-flagellation. Like anywhere Australia has it's issues, but in general things are pretty good compared to most countries in the world.
awy 7y ago
Hello, author here. Thanks a lot for reading my post! A few things to clarify: - indeed I am now in London, but have very fond memories of life in Germany and still enjoy practicing my German - I took a US keyboard layout to work, which made things fine except for when I was on the laptop only (some keys are different shapes as well) - I found it amusing the comments about the German trains. I will confirm that the standard was pretty low in Australia :P (hopefully that's going to get better) - the impracticality of 4 seats and 2 doors in the car was meant to imply that it means it's more difficult to put people in the rear seats in this configuration - thanks for the corrections on train speeds and naming of the ground floor, I'll fix that Let me know if there's any other corrections I should make, anything I missed or should expand on.
vt100 7y ago
I would have thought as an Austrian you would find it quite easy
- hh3k0 7y ago
  I hate that I laughed.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Honestly it's getting to the point in North America that I'm seriously considering uprooting the family and transferring to my company's Munich office. My father is from Germany and I have cousins and aunts there. If I could dig up the proper birth certificates and paperwork I could probably get a passport. Quality of life seems like it would just be better. Unfortunately we have chickens, and a border collie ... so...
- mseidl 7y ago
  I don't know what to do with the chickens. But the dog is easy to bring.
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    My dog has 6 acres to run right now... I can't imagine keeping this tasmanian devil in an apartment...
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      Check with the Munich colleagues, but some of them will live in houses. They're unlikely to have 2½ hectares though. As well as all apartment-vs-house compromises you'd have anywhere in the US (cost, noise, travel time to work etc), moving to a new country and living at the edge of a town or in a small village can feel more isolated, if you don't speak the language.
- unknown_apostle 7y ago
  Funny, if it wasn't for my family and my friends, I'd consider moving to the US.
- Koshkin 7y ago
  What is “getting to the point in North America”??
throwbackThurs 7y ago
I moved to Berlin from Melbourne about four years ago. It's been a great move for my swdev career. There is really interesting and diverse projects and an abundance of work. It's a developers market. European infrastructure is amazing in general. It's also nice to be able to ride 20 minutes with a bicycle to work and feel like your not going to get hit by some moronic bogan. I think that Berlin could be the most liberal and free city in the world at the moment, I love it. I realised how culturally isolated Australia is and how English centric we are. Speaking any other language is kind of frowned upon in Australia . There really is this elitism attitude globally relating to english and it's a double edged sword, it makes us uncultured and insensitive. In Europe and Berlin specifically it's a melting pot of languages, cultures and ideas and I absolutely love that. What Australia lacks in culture it compensates with Sports. For better or worse. I think violence is pretty common in Melbourne at least. I don't feel safe drinking in stkilda, Prahran or in the city. Everyone gets so drunk and if it's not racism it's petty masculinity that causes a brawl. The culture definently values "sport" over nearly everything else. Therefore it's a breeding ground for this kind of behaviour. I really dislike this about my fellow Australians. Conversely, I feel incredibly safe in Berlin. Quality of food is arguably better in Australia overall, but great produce can be found here also. Obviously Australian nature is incredible and offers a lot, it's also a very geographically isolated place, so it's hard to feel connected with the rest of the world. No quickly jumping over to Africa or the middle east! Anyway, I love Europe and germany, they are doing some really forward thinking things and align with my beliefs. There is still a long way to go, but at least they are trying to steer their economies in a progressive direction.

105 points by ericdanielski 7y ago

Regarding the trains, >They are usually on time and cover basically everywhere worth visiting in Europe. He has a very ungerman definition of usually on time :) There's probably not a bigger laughing stock in Germany than our trains (Okay, there is BER). The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time [1]. If you have tight transfers to make, that can get very annoying. I also thought the ICE and non-ICE dichotomy was funny. I would split them into long-distance (IC, ICE, EC) and regional (RE, RB, S-Bahn). [1]: https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen_fakten/puenktlichkeitswerte-1187696 https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen... (Db-Fernverkehr tab)

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learnstats2 7y ago
> The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time. By standards I am familiar with, that's good. Last time I checked, my local train station had trains arriving within 10 minutes only 50% of the time.
- mtmail 7y ago
  "In Germany, there are two kinds of "on time". So far [2017], 94.2% of trains have reached their final destination within six minutes of the scheduled time, and 98.9% within 16 minutes." The article also goes into detail how every country measures punctuality differently. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42024020 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42024020 (Yes, Germans love to complain about the train company)
  - darzu 7y ago
    I really wish articles like this put these numbers into a table or graph. Does anyone know of a table comparing train punctuality?
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    > 94.2% of trains have reached their final destination within six minutes of the scheduled time That's a terrible statistic. First off, connections are designed to be just a few minutes, so 5 minutes delay (not included in this stat) makes you miss an average connection. Secondly, that statistic is about trains, not people: one could manage to have 50% of people be delayed by 30-60 minutes every day and still have 94.2% of trains run on time just by having only the busiest trains between 8-9h and 16-18h delayed enough to miss people's local connection. Finally, the final destination says nothing about intermediate stops (why not just look at every stop?). Things like switching drivers, refueling, or just introducing some slack in the schedule is most often done at endpoints. Heck, if I know this is the statistic being used, I would be sure to design my schedules to have even more leeway at the endpoints than I otherwise already would. I'm curious to see how this statistic changes when it includes intermediate stops and counts delayed passengers rather than empty trains running on time. Optionally, counting the full delay (missed connection / actual frustration) instead of the technical train delay would also be interesting. As one datapoint, my girlfriend takes a train from Cologne in rush hour that is 4-20 minutes late more than half the time, with a connecting bus that goes once an hour that is always on time or even early. She usually misses it.
    - merb 7y ago
      also this statistic is favored towards the north of the country. because there are way more trains. he lives in the south I guess (near munich) probably which has way less trains for regional traffic
  - cosmodisk 7y ago
    I see Germans taking best lessons from English counterparts... Reached last destination my ass...
- lucb1e 7y ago
  75% punctual is good? Because I usually use the long-distance train when I need to go somewhere, not to go for a drink, and having a 1 in 4 chance of being late at a customer's or missing a plane... I dunno, that's not really a chance you want to take, so you end up planning for 1-2 hours of delay every single time, depending on how bad it is if you're late due to no fault of your own (a departing plane won't care but a customer might understand).
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >75% punctual is good? Because I usually use the long-distance train when I need to go somewhere, not to go for a drink, and having a 1 in 4 chance of being late at a customer's or missing a plane... If you're gonna miss a plane because a train is more than 5 minutes late (I'm guessing closer to 10 or so, not 30), then you didn't plan your trip to the airport that well...
    - lucb1e 7y ago
      Right, so you have to build in slack yourself, i.e. you can't rely on the "high punctuality" of 75%. They might as well be 1% punctual and, unless the amount of delay also increases, it wouldn't change a thing.
    - cosmodisk 7y ago
      While I agree with you on the planning part, it still doesn't chsnge the fact thst a train can't reach all the stations on time, despite having a predefined schedule,almost no traffic and etc.
    - CodesInChaos 7y ago
      10 mins delay is often enough to miss a connecting train, forcing you to wait for the next one, which is typically 1h later than the previous one. So planning for a 1-2h delay on a multi-leg train journey is prudent, if you need to be on time.
  - esrauch 7y ago
    When I used to take Amtrak in the US routinely for a 6 hour ride I believe it was 0% punctual by a definition much much weaker than that. I don't believe it was literally ever delayed less than 30 minutes. Also in the US airports you can't always rely on security being less than 30 minutes (barring TSA precheck), so the idea of missing a flight because the train was 10 minutes late is an absurd thought here. I lived in Europe for the past couple years and as an American it really is shocking how drastic the understanding of public transit fundamentally is in the minds of the public at large.
- holri 7y ago
  In Austria this number is 86,6% (long distance, max 5 min late) Austrians also travel the most by train in the EU. (a coinicidence?)
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  I was in Switzerland recently and they put German trains to shame. I dont think we were ever more than a minute behind schedule. As soon as we crossed into Konstanz the scheduling went to shit
ajdlinux 7y ago
> The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time The author is an Australian, and is therefore almost certainly most impressed by the fact that long-distance trains exist in any meaningful way at all. Our long distance trains certainly don't have a reputation for punctuality.
- joshschreuder 7y ago
  Our short distance ones definitely don't either (in Melbourne, at least)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
ceejayoz 7y ago
Here in the US, Amtrak considers within 30 minutes to be "on time"... and struggles a lot even with that. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-amtrak-cant-run-trains-on-time/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-amtrak-cant-run-trains-on-t... > The Coast Starlight, which runs between Seattle and Los Angeles, had an on-time performance of 4 percent in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30. For the California Zephyr, connecting Chicago and San Francisco, the figure was 7 percent. In the current fiscal year, the California Zephyr has not once arrived on time.
- glofish 7y ago
  ok but the California Zephyr covers 4000 km - that's like going from Madrid to Moscow - I doubt any train or set of trains over that distance ever arrives on time.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Amtrak doesn't fare much better when you evaluate it on smaller sections of the routes. Not owning the rails tends to put them at the mercy of freight trains. I've seen some of the longer routes on https://asm.transitdocs.com/map https://asm.transitdocs.com/map have 1-2 day delays marked at times. I arrived eight hours late the last time I went from Rochester to NYC (~500 km). Look at https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2019/12/13/19 https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2019/12/13/19 and you'll see it's been losing substantial time at almost every stop along the way. Ride some Swiss or German trains and then try out Amtrak and the difference will be difficult to deny.
    - glofish 7y ago
      Sure, I got no love for Amtrak. Just pointing out that we should criticize it for short trips not 4000km ones.
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Amtrak’s on time performance on the northeast corridor, which it owns, is miserable too.
coldtea 7y ago
>He has a very ungerman definition of usually on time :) There's probably not a bigger laughing stock in Germany than our trains (Okay, there is BER). The long-distance ones only arrive within 5 minutes 75% of the time [1]. If you have tight transfers to make, that can get very annoying. Then don't arrange for "tight transfers"? If "within 5 minutes" (or close, I'm guessing the rest of the time would be some "unbearable" late of 10 minutes or so?) messes your schedule you have a messed up schedule.
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  I don't know about German train schedules specifically, but in life in general while avoiding tight transfers is generally a good idea sometimes you just have no say in the matter.
- wander_homer 7y ago
  Their official route planer uses those "tight transfers" by default and calls them "Normal transfer duration".
  - distances 7y ago
    What happens in Germany if you lose your connection due to the train being late? In Finland the train company is responsible for ensuring you get to your destination (with taxi if needed) if the train rides were bought as a single trip.
    - realityking 7y ago
      Same here if the entire journey is booked on one ticket. I’ve taken a Taxi from Cologne to Aachen (~75km) on Deutsche Bahn’s dime. Unfortunately Deutsche Bahn is not very up-front about these option (e.g. with vouchers) and you have to expense that taxi ride or hotel after the fact. A lot of people are scared of that as they’re not sure if they’ll get the money back.
      - currysausage 7y ago
cosmodisk 7y ago
Well...The local operators,here in London,solved the stats issue this way: if a train is late, it skips many stations and still arrive to the end station on time. Guess what,all the stats are produced on first- last ststion basis...
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Eh. Same thing in Belgium. Only time of arrival in the last station is taken into account to classify a journey as being late or on time.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Same idea but slightly different trick was being used when I was at university. Aberystwyth-Birmingham New Street was regularly terminated at Wolverhampton, so that it has gone far enough to count as “not cancelled” and because it didn’t get to BNS late it also “wasn’t late”.
- burntoutfire 7y ago
  What happens to people who want to onboard on the skipped stations?
  - nmnim 7y ago
    I'm not in London but up north, and it's the same here. In my experience you have to wait until the next connecting train, or buy a new ticket and catch a suburban train from a different company that takes 3x as long. This one is sometimes late and will skip your station. I've missed work (seminar teaching, short and time-sensitive, so not just a case of arriving late and staying late) because of cancellations and trains going through my station rather so they can be on time to Leeds or wherever.
chillfox 7y ago
I don't know about trains, but where I live in Australia buses can be up to one hour late.
- cylinder 7y ago
  I live in Sydney and my train is literally never late, always to the minute. I'm just slightly out of peak (just after 9am).
  - cyphar 7y ago
    This might depend what line you're on. If you were on the massive T1 loop before they split it, a few late trains were almost a certainty during peak hours. If you live at Bondi it's unlikely your trains will be late because the line is so short. Don't get me wrong, I do think we complain a little too much about public transport in Sydney (when in reality, it's actually fine most of the time). But it definitely does have some pretty serious flaws (too many single points of failure is the most obvious one -- especially the Strathfield-Paramatta stretch of track which is core to the running of 7 [out of 9] different lines without any way to route around it).
- 0xdeadb00f 7y ago
  Or they just don't show up at all.
- fl0under 7y ago
  Here in Adelaide (South Australia) I've found the buses have improved a lot over the last decade, usually right on time, only with the occasional delay (like 5-10 mins). There are real time data available for our transport system which I find to be super useful so I can leave to get to a stop at the right time.
netsharc 7y ago
And he praises the food in the ICE trains... It shows he's Australian and earned a lot at BMW, the food on ICE trains are severely overpriced.
- rurban 7y ago
  Could be that he used a czech ICE train operating the Prague-Berlin line over Dresden. This is mostly on time and serves good czech food. I wouldn't recommend eating on German trains as foreigner. Germans have similar food standards as British, the lowest end of the food chain. EDIT: Bavaria is different though. They actually have a different food tradition, more towards the more civilised countries Austria, Czech, Italy.
  - phreeza 7y ago
    That is a EC, not an ICE, I think. Often full with drunk tourists sadly.
  - dejv 7y ago
    Well Prague - Berlin is not ICE train but EC train, but yeah the food in there is good and cheap. The best food was always on Berlin - Budapest route with Hungarian restaurant car. Great goulash in there, but this train now terminate in Prague.
RileyJames 7y ago
We have low standards. The Victorian “high speed rail project” cost $750M to increase our regional (long distance enough) trains to a whopping 165 km/h. Here’s the kicker, when it gets hot, they have to slow down. And when I say hot, I mean, 36C (96F). And by slow down I mean 90km/h. Welcome to Australia, that’s half a month per year. And it’s getting hotter. [bom](http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num=086071&p_prim_element_index=0&p_comp_element_index=0&redraw=null&p_display_type=full_statistics_table&normals_years=1981-2010&tablesizebutt=normal http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av?p_stn_num=086071&p...) They can be delayed by such long periods they’re replaced by buses. When you arrive is anyone’s guess.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  You linked climate data that included 1981-2010. When you actually search all of the historic data in the drop down, you'll find that there's no significant trend in # of days >35C since 1861. 1981-2010 did show 10.8 for that figure, but the periods 1871-1900, 1881-1910, 1891-1920, and 1901-1930 all showed around the same figure, at 10.8, 11.2, 11.1, and 10.2 respectively. It looks more like a cyclical trend in Melbourne heat.
  - RileyJames 7y ago
    “It’s getting hotter” was based on “all data” vs 81-2010. Which shows an increase. (>30, 30 -> 32.1 & >35, 10 -> 10.8) Additionally based on an abc podcast, the signal, which stated that since 1987 summer temperatures have been above average. [the signal](https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-signal/changing-summers/11786298 https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-signal/changing-su...) Let’s not get into a climate change debate. It’s not going to get significantly colder to the point where these trains are going to run on time more often.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      I just quoted four other 30 year periods in the late 1800s and early 1900s that were just as hot or hotter than 81-10. You are just comparing an above average period with an average over 150 years. Ok, that says nothing, if the data set is cyclical and you cherry pick a trough or a peak to make a point, you're being dishonest. I wouldn't bet that.
bitL 7y ago
Heuristics for train delays: Does the train pass Frankfurt? Add 15-30 minutes. Otherwise expect your train within 5 minutes of its scheduled arrival/departure.
- enqk 7y ago
  Yes unfortunately we made that experience many times. When you buy tickets from bahn.de, increase the default connection time, theirs is way too low and results in missed connections frequently.
  - kaybe 7y ago
    More rules: - Get as few train changes as possible. (Being a few minutes late is no issue if there are no connections to miss.) - Any changes should be in big hubs. (You might be offered a route with a change in a smaller station, but if you miss the connection the next train might be hours off. If you change in a hub there will be many others.) - Don't take the last connection of the day for the last leg of the journey, you might miss the connection and be stranded. Even worse if it's a small station (offices will be closed if there are even any there, there will be services like hotel and taxi somewhere but have fun finding them).
- nmnim 7y ago
  I lived in Frankfurt for a year and now I live in England. I was so frustrated at DB and RMV when my trains were a bit late (3-5 mins for RMV, 15-20 for long DB) once in a while. Now I take a regular train from my town to a city and I've literally only caught it on time TWICE in two years. Usually 20-30 minutes late or suddenly cancelled. Trains here are a whole different level of bad.
  - bitL 7y ago
    Privatisation did "wonders" to British rail transport system...
fit2rule 7y ago
As an Australian who also moved to Germany and Austria, I can say that the trains are very impressive in this part of the world - until you go to Berlin. Berlin trains will drive you absolutely mad. I was fine with German trains - impressed, even - until I tried to get around Berlin for a few weeks by way of the local train systems. The only thing I can compare it to, is British trains, which are absolutely terrible .. Berlin is like that.
- distances 7y ago
  > Berlin trains will drive you absolutely mad. Can you expand a bit, punctuality or what? In Berlin trains are sometimes a bit clunky, sometimes a bit late, but I absolutely love the Berlin public transport system.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    It might've just been my luck, its not unusual, but there are a few things I've noticed about the time I lived in Germany which might be colouring things. Every single town will have some road-work happening, somewhere. If there isn't any road-work in your purview, you probably don't know the German town very well, and just haven't seen the current street work yet. This seems to have been the case with Berlins' rail system while I was there, during a particular summer. Now, don't get me wrong - I love public transportation, and Europe, Germany in particular, loves it too. Its wonderful, and Berlin by common rail is a delight. So I often got on the per-the-map "right" train, only to find there was construction work and we had to take the bus around the stations and then .. another train .. to get to destination X. Well, I'm a competent Euro- rail fanatic, should be easy. Just: nope. Every week I got tripped up by not grok'ing where I was supposed to be to find the bus. I confess, it might've just been me being dizzied by the delights of the city otherwise, but I did get to walk and catch quite a few Korkmännchen. Every other German city I've visited (and there are quite a few worth the trip yet), has had absolutely decent, reliable rail. Best is Wuppertal with the Schwebebahn.. but boy, did I ever get lost in Berlin.
    - mkohlmyr 7y ago
croisillon 7y ago
that reminds of an amusing time i went to buy a train ticket at dresden main railway station, back in 2003: - i'd like a ticket for the next train to prag - ok, 17:25 or 19:25? - but it's 17:30 already? - so what? the train is still on station
- lioeters 7y ago
  That reminds me of an amusing time I spent overnight at the back of the Munich train station, in the cold Autumn wind, with German homeless people (several spoke English) drinking beer. The reason? Had to transfer from one train to another in Munich - it was around 7pm, I believe - and had assumed from cultural stereotype that German trains would be precisely on time. First one was 10~15min late, missed my connection, and the next one to my destination was the following morning. The person at the counter suggested sleeping in the waiting room, which was full of people on the chairs and on the floor. Lesson learned.. Edit: The lesson is, as another commenter stated below, increase the time between transfers from the default in Deutsche Bahn's online reservation system.
fhars 7y ago
Speaking about the punctuality of German trains, there will be a talk at 36C3 from someone who collected all the actual departure and arrival times of all long distance trains in Germany for this year: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2019/Fahrplan/events/10652.html https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2019/Fahrplan/events... The talk will be streamed. It is in German, but there will be a simultaneous translation into English and probably some other language.

onreact 7y ago

Some fun albeit superficial information. You forgot to mention that Australians are not simply allowed to move here. Having a job or at least money to support yourself is a prerequisite. A friend of my wife is from Australia and she had a hard time to prove she's not a burden to Germany even though she basically lives off renting her house in Australia and selling her art so that she is quite well off. Also Germany likes foreigners who have white skin. When you don't you risk getting interned straight at the airport. As you have committed no crime and you are legally not in Germany you have no rights to get a lawyer etc. People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious.

thepete2 7y ago
Is he talking about immigration though? Or does he simply have a visa? > People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious. I've never heard of any extraterritorial prisons here. Can you elaborate / source this?
chki 7y ago
>People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious. Not regarding anything else you are claiming this is quite an outrageous claim and I have no recollection of such things going on in Germany for the last few years. It would also be a severe violation of the German constitution if this would be happening (extraterritoriality doesn't matter) not even mentioning the European Charter of Human Rights and other important Human Rights treaties. Edit: I would be very interested in hearing about some concrete examples. If this is happening (which I somewhat doubt) there is definitely not enough spotlight on it in the Public Debate in Germany.
- Perenti 7y ago
  This kind of detention definately happens in Australia, or more precisely in concentration camps paid for by the Australian Government in other Pacific nations. Makes me ashamed to be Australian.

lucb1e 7y ago

> [My car is] impractical with only two doors and four seats I like four doors, but only two isn't too bad (drove one of those for five years). Seats though, is it normal to own a bus in Australia? The people I would expect to own a car with more than two rows of seats are families with 4+ kids, which is nobody here. I've recently been thinking about a 2-seater to save on gas/CO2 since I have no kids anyway and you can always rent or borrow a car for that one time a year that you need it (since friends and family have 4-seaters, when we want to go somewhere, we can go with their car and pay for drinks or whatever). Of course, I'm in an exceptional situation with only a girlfriend and no plans for kids. I just can't help but wonder if this "4 seats is impractical" statement comes from being scared of "but what if I need it one day and then I don't have the option?" when logically, it is really much cheaper to rent a van once every four years than permanently own a huge car. > The trains are so awesome in Germany hah, try the Netherlands. Living in Germany for more than a year now, I think the trains here are quite crappy. Not unusable or filthy, but also not like the Netherlands. And the ICEs go 300km/h, not 250, and are very unreliable punctuality-wise. Related: "You also won’t find automated checkouts [in Germany]." again, try the Netherlands :) > it’s normal for all shops to be closed except for servos (there’s a confusing word for Germans) Eh, I'll say. Servo(s) only exists in merriam-webster as well as the community-based dict.cc as I know it: a motor. Is this from a Brisbane dialect or something?

blattimwind 7y ago
For cars that exist in both three and five door versions the three door version is usually worse for tight spaces, because the doors are bigger and the front seats more forward relative to the back of the door. Three doors / four seats seem to be less common these days, though.
sjwright 7y ago
> is it normal to own a bus in Australia? No. The market for three row vehicles exists but is small, served mostly by a few mid-sized* SUVs with a third row only suitable for small children. Most people I know with families of 5 make do with two row vehicles. The modal private car in Australia is a five door hatchback (Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla) closely followed by the compact* crossover (Mazda CX-5, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester). Work vehicles are dominated by "utes", which are small or medium* pickup trucks (Toyota HiLux, Ford Ranger). Three door/two row cars used to be common as the base ("poverty") specification of some small economy hatchbacks—but it appears this trend has completely died away. Toyota's cheapest new vehicle is a five door, for example. Three door/two row hatchbacks are horrid things: worse for the customer in every respect and any cost savings probably offset by increased chassis development costs and SKU counts. * Per the North American lexicon. Australia and the rest of the world sizes cars a bit differently.

PavlovsCat 7y ago

> the bottom floor is 0, not the ground floor In the elevator sure, though just as often it's abbreviated EG for Erdgeschoss, which does mean ground floor. We call the floor above that "erstes Geschoss" or "erstes Obergeschoss", whereas that would be the second floor in English, but we never say "nulltes Geschoss", always Erdgeschoss. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Erdgeschoss https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Erdgeschoss

DominikPeters 7y ago
Calling the ground floor “first floor” is a North American thing, and everyone else (including UK) agrees with German numbering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storey

doopfoopdoop 7y ago

Edit: removed. (My post was too negative and was just me venting.)

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lainga 7y ago
It's a shame. If a country can't show you its culinary best at a university cafeteria, where else can you go?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- quelltext 7y ago
  There it is: Don't eat at cheap places. I really wouldn't bash a country's food based on bottom tier experience. I have to agree though that it's easy to end up in a bad place and in Germany there's no limit to how disgusting it can get. Germans do seem to have a higher tolerance for this. Of course nothing beats the university cafeteria but I don't know anyone who likes that food, it's just that the typical student cannot afford to avoid it. On the other hand there are not that many countries I can think of with high standard of living and minimum wage where food is consistently great even when comparatively cheap.
  - blattimwind 7y ago
    You can eat very cheaply in Germany, but if you do that, you probably can't complain about the quality.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      Food prices are very low in Germany. They are extremely low, if you cook yourself and even restaurants are not that expensive in international comparison. But indeed, if you go to extremely cheap places, you can have really bad food too - but that is independant of the food style. They make bad Italian food too :).

quelltext 7y ago

> It’s also more difficult for me as a I have a US layout keyboard at home and a German layout at work. I'd hate tp be forced to use a specific layout governed by my employer and I'm glad it's not been a problem so far to get a replacement keyboard with US layout. It's pretty common nowadays for developers to simply prefer the US layout if their country's is not great, like the German one that makes typing braces etc. a pain in the ass.

FabHK 7y ago
At any rate, learn to to touch type blind, and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software (and ignore what’s printed on the keys). My mom can do it; I’d expect any programmer to be able to do it.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  > and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software If only. They have a different shape shift and enter key. It's not impossible to type on different keyboards at home and at work without mixing it up too much, but it is annoying, and not just a software configuration. (Source: am Dutch, live in Germany, have different keyboards at home and at work because I don't want to throw one away when it still works fine even if it's a little annoying.)
- bori5 7y ago
  being able to program does not necessarily mean you can touch type blind
- sfgweilr4f 7y ago
  You can connect the two and infer interesting facts, but programming ability has nothing to do with blind touch typing. You can have zero skill in one and be great in the other. Yes I've met programmers who can't touch type. Their "hunt and peck" is faster than a lot of other people's touch typing. Programmers tend to have better typing skills in general than other people. But speed wise, real[1] touch typists leave general programmers[2] in the dust. This should not be a surprise. [1] Touch typists who are specialized for typing speed as first priority. This doesn't generally include programmers because they are specialized for programming and typing is really just a secondary skill in being able to use "a tool of trade". [2] Someone will now suggest that they happen to have practiced for a week and can beat everyone they know. Well done. Now you're still not a specialized touch typist... A real touch typist just needs to practice more and will still likely beat you. Or it could be argued they type faster due to characters/week.

magicbuzz 7y ago

Interesting! And I think it's a good alternative to the typical 'work in the valley for a few years' that many Oz devs do. He seems to be working for Facebook in London now.

fefe23 7y ago

I would be interested in the other direction. Would anyone from the EU who moved to Australia care to tell us about their experiences?

BFLpL0QNek 7y ago
Trains are meh. The average train speed is 50km/h, so living out in the suburbs is a long slow commute. What should be a 20-30 min journey can be 1hr plus. Forget interstate travel as each state has different line standards. "She'll be right mate" the stereotypical image of Aussies, not so true at least these days. Highly litigious, lots of red tape, and following strict rules, love their fines, if they can fine it they'll be a fine for it! You often find police officers in Sydney CBD fining pedestrians for crossing the road or police sniffer dogs around the train stations randomly plucking commuters for strip searches. Australia often gets a bad write up from the UN on social justice, take the encryption laws rushed in as an example. The car is king. In the EU if you cross the road in a safe manner, cars will back off the accelerator. In Australia, it's a case you shouldn't be on the road, so they speed up intentionally to hit you. Similarly, if you want to cycle, you better be brave. Driving standards seem far worse. On the topic of cars they have high import duties so your average European car becomes very expensive. Instead, there's tons of Toyota Hillux's and Corollas, Landcruiser, etc and the odd Holden but they've stopped being produced in the AU so don't seem as popular as they once were. It's impossible or near impossible to eat out after 8 pm. Shops close at 6 pm so no after work shopping. Sydney has zero nightlife for an international city, it's like a ghost town now after dark. They introduced "lock out laws" essentially killing the nightlife as bars close early, prevent you from getting into bars after a specific time, and limiting drinks that can be purchased over a specific time. They have recently backed down from this and reducing the restrictions in the new year. The damage has been done, bars have shut and turned in to apartments. A high cost of living. You have two grocery stores, Coles and Woolworths, so far less variety. There is a third chain called IGA that tries to carry a little higher quality produce, you see them more in smaller towns. Being so far from anywhere, it's a long journey to travel outside of Australia. Perth to Sydney is a 5hr flight, a 5hr flight you've crossed Europe. Australia is on fire, the prime minister denies climate change and walks into parliament with cole saying don't be afraid it's only cole, kind of sets the standard. Tech jobs, you get your usual low barrier agency knocking out website jobs writing javascript. Then the other popular work is big data doing questionable stuff with user data or cryptocurrencies. When you search on Linkedin, for example, for EU jobs or US jobs compared to Australia, Australia's availability of meaningful, interesting, well-paying tech jobs is lacking/behind other parts of the world. Some do exist but few and far between. The computer science degrees here must be good though worked with some very smart Aussie's. The US companies tend to cherry-pick the graduates due to the special AU-US visa agreements. The housing they've yet to discover double glazing/insulation. A lot of the properties look like they haven't been renovated since the 70's. Slight ignorance that insulation works to keep the heat inside during the winter and heat out during the summer when the aircon is on. Also the mean Sydney house price is $1million +, although that $1 million won't buy you what you'd expect for a $1 million house. Instead, you'd get some shitbox that needs renovating or what is popular knocking down and turning in to apartments. On the plus side, if you like an active outdoor lifestyle, it's fantastic. If you like the beach it has them, bushwalking, lots of that, outdoor sports lots of that. Great coffee that's down to the high multiculturalism, although there's is a lot of quiet racism the more regional you go. Also in the cities etc food is really good. I eat out a lot more in the AU for brunch and dinner. Lots of variety from AU / EU style food to Asian etc. Work-life balance is generally ok. It's certainly a comfortable lifestyle. There's also less crime. I've never walked down a street or through a suburb that's felt unsafe. Life is good in the AU if you get a tech salary, it's a bit of a bubble, though compared to the rest of the world due to the isolation. I don't love it, I don't hate it, it's comfortable, for now. My partner is Australian, so I'll be sticking around as she wants to be here when we start a family. We did plan to go overseas to Europe for a little while to live and work, but due to the mess of the UK and brexit that might not be as easy as we thought. I'm currently waiting on my permanent visa to come through so we can make our next plans until then it's hard for us to plan ahead. Australia, the lucky country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country

barrkel 7y ago

Worth noting that the chap is now in London.

lumberjack 7y ago

If you want to move to Germany don't underestimate how hard it is to have a social life around here, especially if moving alone. It is the one thing that seems a constant, whenever I talk with other foreigners. Even Germans seem to find it hard to have friends when they relocate away from their previous social lives.

himlion 7y ago
Same goes for the Netherlands, it's the number one complaint I hear from expats in Amsterdam.
cjslep 7y ago
As someone who moved to Switzerland from America, Germans and Germany seems easier to integrate with than integrating in Switzerland. To be fair, I'm learning High German and not my local Schwiizertüütsch.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  German-speaking Swiss is like Germany on hard mode
kfk 7y ago
I think the issue is that here in Germany there is a lot of unspoken peer pressure in regards to where you should be in life at your age. That pressure makes it hard to keep things in a flow and basically people (German and expats) tend to put a structure around everything. Social interactions? Needs to happen at the appropriate time and scheduled at least 2 weeks in advance. Fancy restaurant dinner with girlfriend? Needs to be scheduled weeks before. Work life balance? You must have work life balance and you must go out on sunny days, which is great until it feels again like pressure to be something you don't want to be. Hiking? You will find another zillion people on that mountain because again you are supposed to go out on sunny days. It can feel very "robotic" and I think people just end up detaching themselves from what they truly want or truly need from their social interactions.
- 7y ago

marcus_holmes 7y ago

I moved from Perth to Berlin. The biggest thing that hit me was the alcohol. I can buy a (good!) beer at anytime (even 3am) for about 2 euros from a spati ("late shop"- like a deli but mostly selling beer), and then walk around in the open air drinking it. All the supermarkets sell alcohol all day(and so cheap). People gather by the canals in summer, just drinking and talking. No-one seems to get drunk, there's no violence or shouting. It's such a pleasant change. Also smoking in bars. I don't smoke, but I don't mind it.Ny gf hates it and prefers to sit outside in the cold rather than inside in the smoke. The bureaucracy is about the same - Aussie bureaucracy is less finicky but feels more hostile. People are people. Though Germans seem less angry than Aussies. I always wonder why Australia seems such an angry place after travelling abroad. The graffiti and street art is also striking. Perth goes in for tagging, but not on the same scale or creativeness as Berlin. I really like it, but I understand why other people don't. I'm really enjoying my time here. Miss the beach, though.

fit2rule 7y ago
I'm also from Perth, lived around the world, including some years in Germany .. had the same set of observations. On this: >I always wonder why Australia seems such an angry place after travelling abroad. I think Australia has a lot of deep pain in its history, and in its culture, and this manifests in a hostility. Every time I go back, I wonder why its such an angry shithole. Australians just seem to be getting madder and madder... EDIT: Germany does have deep pain in its history. Germans are aware of that, and overt about it. Australians not so much.
- geowwy 7y ago
  I've traveled around a bit but haven't noticed Australians are more angry than anyone else. Interested in this comment.
  - zizee 7y ago
    I'm not sure if it is a thing unique to Australia, but there are seem to be a lot of Australian's that have a chip on their shoulder and will tell anyone that will listen to them about how badly Australian's do things/behave. I suspect they have not traveled very much, or just feel better doing something similar to self-flagellation. Like anywhere Australia has it's issues, but in general things are pretty good compared to most countries in the world.

awy 7y ago

Hello, author here. Thanks a lot for reading my post! A few things to clarify: - indeed I am now in London, but have very fond memories of life in Germany and still enjoy practicing my German - I took a US keyboard layout to work, which made things fine except for when I was on the laptop only (some keys are different shapes as well) - I found it amusing the comments about the German trains. I will confirm that the standard was pretty low in Australia :P (hopefully that's going to get better) - the impracticality of 4 seats and 2 doors in the car was meant to imply that it means it's more difficult to put people in the rear seats in this configuration - thanks for the corrections on train speeds and naming of the ground floor, I'll fix that Let me know if there's any other corrections I should make, anything I missed or should expand on.

vt100 7y ago

I would have thought as an Austrian you would find it quite easy

hh3k0 7y ago
I hate that I laughed.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

Honestly it's getting to the point in North America that I'm seriously considering uprooting the family and transferring to my company's Munich office. My father is from Germany and I have cousins and aunts there. If I could dig up the proper birth certificates and paperwork I could probably get a passport. Quality of life seems like it would just be better. Unfortunately we have chickens, and a border collie ... so...

mseidl 7y ago
I don't know what to do with the chickens. But the dog is easy to bring.
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  My dog has 6 acres to run right now... I can't imagine keeping this tasmanian devil in an apartment...
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Check with the Munich colleagues, but some of them will live in houses. They're unlikely to have 2½ hectares though. As well as all apartment-vs-house compromises you'd have anywhere in the US (cost, noise, travel time to work etc), moving to a new country and living at the edge of a town or in a small village can feel more isolated, if you don't speak the language.
unknown_apostle 7y ago
Funny, if it wasn't for my family and my friends, I'd consider moving to the US.
Koshkin 7y ago
What is “getting to the point in North America”??

throwbackThurs 7y ago

I moved to Berlin from Melbourne about four years ago. It's been a great move for my swdev career. There is really interesting and diverse projects and an abundance of work. It's a developers market. European infrastructure is amazing in general. It's also nice to be able to ride 20 minutes with a bicycle to work and feel like your not going to get hit by some moronic bogan. I think that Berlin could be the most liberal and free city in the world at the moment, I love it. I realised how culturally isolated Australia is and how English centric we are. Speaking any other language is kind of frowned upon in Australia . There really is this elitism attitude globally relating to english and it's a double edged sword, it makes us uncultured and insensitive. In Europe and Berlin specifically it's a melting pot of languages, cultures and ideas and I absolutely love that. What Australia lacks in culture it compensates with Sports. For better or worse. I think violence is pretty common in Melbourne at least. I don't feel safe drinking in stkilda, Prahran or in the city. Everyone gets so drunk and if it's not racism it's petty masculinity that causes a brawl. The culture definently values "sport" over nearly everything else. Therefore it's a breeding ground for this kind of behaviour. I really dislike this about my fellow Australians. Conversely, I feel incredibly safe in Berlin. Quality of food is arguably better in Australia overall, but great produce can be found here also. Obviously Australian nature is incredible and offers a lot, it's also a very geographically isolated place, so it's hard to feel connected with the rest of the world. No quickly jumping over to Africa or the middle east! Anyway, I love Europe and germany, they are doing some really forward thinking things and align with my beliefs. There is still a long way to go, but at least they are trying to steer their economies in a progressive direction.