21 ms·

If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

501 points by fogus 7y ago

raydev 7y ago
Title should be modified to "build it instead (as long as you want a mechanical keyboard). I love Apple's Magic Keyboard 2 very much. I've looked around a lot, but there's nothing out there with its super low profile that's also customizable. My ideal keyboard would be a Magic Keyboard with a variety of key colors, RGB lights, and the ability to split it in half so I can put my arms in a better position.
amerine 7y ago
I love custom keyboards. Sharing work like this is pretty inspiring. All I’ve done is solder two ergodox’s from massdrop, but it was a blast.
- souterrain 7y ago
  I find custom keyboards to be beautiful, but I have a very hard time using a proper mechanical keyboard. I am not a proper touch-typist, and lack the patience or free time to re-learn. I tried with an Ergodox for some time, but it became so frustrating that it interfered with my appreciation for the engineering and artistry of the thing. Any suggestions relating to low-profile, short-travel switches/keycaps that will work in kits found from massdrop, et al?
  - Normal_gaussian 7y ago
    I finally bought an Ergodox EZ just over a month ago, after suspecting a split keyboard could solve some postural issues for a while (its practically impossible to use a split keyboard whilst sitting lopsided). I was a touch typist (two hands, and completely left handed), but I was "wasd" centred. Learning to home row type was by far the hardest thing about the keyboard. It took me a week of 8/hr a day coding/writing to get back up to speed. Thankfully I didn't have work commitments so could go all in - but on day 3 I was so very close to quitting. AFAICT it has completely sorted my tendency to move into a bad posture - and for that I know it is worth it. But to spend 40hrs getting frustrated and working slowly? I couldn't justify it without the posture problem.
  - amerine 7y ago
    Unfortunately I don't have advice to pass along, I'm sorry. :-( I found the Leopold FC660M randomly on the internet and fell in love with it and have't touched another keyboard since.
- trashcat 7y ago
  Building your keyboards is always the way to go! I've built about 10 now and I love it every time.
Tharkun 7y ago
If you're at all into custom keyboard making, and you haven't already, check out the QMK firmware: https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ It makes it a lot easier to deal with the non-standard layouts that you'll probably want to use.
politelemon 7y ago
I'm simply a mechanical keyboard user, I have a few trusty Filcos that I use and I will sometimes buy a keycap set and wait 1 year for it[1]; I don't have the courage to build custom keyboards. However I do derive a vicarious pleasure looking at the build logs and end results shared by others, this post included. The two best places I've found to follow are the /r/mechanicalkeyboards[2] subreddit and the geekhack.org[3] forms which goes even more in-depth into specific subtopics. It's a lovely world of enthusiasts that I am happy to place on a pedestal and admire. [1]: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-matt3o-mt3-susuwatari-custom-keycap-set?mode=guest_open https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-matt3o-mt3-susuwatari-custom... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards [3]: https://geekhack.org/ https://geekhack.org/
- Symbiote 7y ago
  There's also a fairly new subreddit, /r/ErgoMechKeyboards/, which only has ergonomic keyboards (simply split ones, or more usually with staggered columns rather than rows, and often a 3D shape). Fewer fancy, expensive keycap sets, and more works-in-progress with wires sticking out. https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    Thanks! That's neat.
  - 7thaccount 7y ago
    Can any of these be bought? I love mechanical keyboards, but I can only use an ergonomical keyboard
    - lsc 7y ago
      I use a kinesis advantage2 with brown cherry keyswitches. (I think it's available with others) - my only complaint is that it's kinda giant. Overall, it's pretty great; if you don't want to build your own, and if you don't want to change your keyboard, it's the best choice because it has been in production since the early '90s with few changes to layout; for me? this is big- changing layout is a big deal. The kinesis has been in production long enough that I am pretty confident I won't have to learn a new layout until keyboards go by the wayside It's probably the least portable keyboard I've owned, though. Oh yeah, link to buy: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ You can get them next-day from amazon, too, which is nice for essential parts such as these.
rwmj 7y ago
He built his own keyboard and still included a huge CapsLock key in the place where god intended Ctrl to go?
- quotemstr 7y ago
  No, no, no. It's written "CapsLock" but pronounced "Control".
  - trashcat 7y ago
    This is how most of my keyboards are because not many key sets come with big Ctrl keys.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      Particularly if you're not interested in spending €100 plus on the keycaps, then there are keycaps on Alibaba for much less money, but they don't necessarily cater to every possible layout. This keyboard is using this $27 set: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006008300.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006008300.html
  - andrewflnr 7y ago
    That's still a little confusing. Can we get that in International Phonetic Alphabet?
  - lawn 7y ago
    I think you spelled "escape" wrong. Yes, I'm a vim user. On the keyboards that support it I've had it remap to another layer if I hold it, but I'm thinking of using it for escape/ctrl, as I do use some emacs commands from time to time (mostly evil mode, but not everything). But I haven't decided where to put my layer switch key yet.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Dual esc/ctrl is the way to go. I still get phantom esc presses when I decide half-way that I don't need to ctrl+anything, but it's worth it.
wishinghand 7y ago
I’m on the verge of doing this. I have an Ergodox EZ but I want thumb clusters that are more useful, plus I’d like an encoder knob or two. The Kyria is close but it doesn’t do RGB per key or have a thumb cluster that exactly matches what I want. To the drawing board I go!
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  TIL people put knobs on their keyboards. Do you generally have to configure your own actions for knob events or is there software that supports them out of the box?
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    If many people have added the encoders in the same way to the same keyboard (e.g. because there's an optional space on the PCB for it), then it's probably just a configuration option on the keyboard firmware. If you've made a completely custom keyboard, or hacked an existing PCB to add the encoder, then there is a little more configuration. Either way, there's then a few lines of code to define the action when turning the encoder knob. The keyboard is configured to either send keys (e.g. PageUp/PageDown, Up/Down, VolumeUp/VolumeDown, AltTab/AltShiftTab) or to send mouse wheel events. You can have it send something different if you're holding "Fn" or whatever, or anything else you can think of. There's no software needed on the computer. https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_encoders https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_encoders
  - wishinghand 7y ago
    If I get one, it'll be for volume. If I get two, the second will control scrolling up and down.
    - samatman 7y ago
      I solve the latter with a Kensington trackball with a nice, generous scroll wheel. Pity it lacks a third mouse button. I've considered glomming a button to the front (cable) side with some Sugru...
- 7y ago
excalibur 7y ago
Needs more Function keys
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  So build it.
  - doublement 7y ago
    I don't have room in my apartment to even learn about building physical objects! I'd love to turn my various Arduino doodads into coherent forms but my workspace is a desktop.
    - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
      You don't need much to start out with. Check and see if there's a makerspace nearby- they generally have A) space and B) people willing to teach and demonstrate how things are done.
ourmandave 7y ago
Meh, the Phantom has been doing this since 1925. And try getting custom keys delivered to an opera house on a Saturday before a big open.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  What?
- zenexer 7y ago
  Can you elaborate? This album is about a person who built their own keyboard, but it sounds like you're describing a company. Are you saying that company designs custom keyboards?
  - egypturnash 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera
    - zenexer 7y ago
      I got the potential reference. I just don’t understand what’s being said here—is it a joke?
      - zenexer 7y ago
        I figured it out. The commenter thought keyboard was referring to musical keyboards, which are not the subject of this post. In the future, please click the link before commenting.
qwerty456127 7y ago
I want a keyboard with an extra row of keys (I could use for additional characters in a custom layout) between the letters and the numbers. Is this possible?
- wpasc 7y ago
  you could get a keyboard with the standard function keys and create a custom keymap where the function keys did the numbers and the numbers did whatever you wanted
- wielebny 7y ago
  I use ms natural keyboard 4000 just because of that - extra row of keys that can be programmed to the liking. It's a shame that it does not have a USB hub (previous version had it) and that newer versions lack this row.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? If you don't, choose a keyboard with an appropriate physical arrangement (I happen to have [1], which would work for this), and program it accordingly -- any mechanical keyboard lets you move the key mapping around. Optionally swap the plastic key caps around. (You could also achieve this OS-side on any cheap keyboard.) If you want an additional row, you'll probably need to make the keyboard yourself. The fashion seems to be to reduce the number of available keys rather than increase it. Depending what you want it for, an alternative is to add an extra modifier key and use that modifier to get your extra characters, "FN+1" etc. Programming the keyboard to send arbitrary characters depends on the OS and the keyboard firmware. See [2]. [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html [2] https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode
  - oAlbe 7y ago
    Is it generally reliable to buy such an item from aliexpress? Don't you end up with cheap version of more expensive keyboards? Asking because I've been looking for a 75% (non-split) keyboard for a long time, and it seems like aliexpress might have what I'm looking for. I'm just worried about ending up with a knock off.
carapace 7y ago
Check out the "Dactyl-ManuForm": https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard > a parameterized, split-hand, concave, columnar, ergonomic keyboard.
- melling 7y ago
  How about a 3D-printed DataHand clone... https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
  - dahx4Eev 7y ago
    I’m building this. Care to share more about it? What key map do you use?
- hailwren 7y ago
  If you're into ergonomics, this one is pretty much the holy grail.
- hrgiger 7y ago
  I wonder how difficult would be mouse functionality integration to both of them or there was such an attempt before, would be quite interesting to use those with double pointer.
  - carapace 7y ago
    IIRC there was a variation someone made with a small trackball under the thumb. I thought that was an interesting idea. You're talking about having two mice inputs? That's pretty cool.
    - hrgiger 7y ago
      Yes two mouse inputs, one per hand, if such a tool exist I could definitely try it!
qes 7y ago
One day I'll likely be faced with making my own keyboard layout or losing the wonderful Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Delete layout I've been used to for years now on a long discontinued keyboard model (I seriously have a box of spares under the bed that I bought when they stopped being made). I've found myself adaptable to the action of many keyboards, but there's some layout features I'm very particular about.
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  > a long discontinued keyboard model Can you provide a link with a picture to show what you mean about the layout?
  - qes 7y ago
    https://i.imgur.com/oreqrA1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/oreqrA1.jpg
- aidenn0 7y ago
  Logitech still makes some keyboards with that distinctive large delete key, but I'm in the US, so I don't know if they have an ISO layout version of it. Example: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-keyboard-k350#specification-tabular https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-keyboard-k35...
  - qes 7y ago
    Oh yeah, the Wave. Forgot about that one because I really don't care much for curved layouts. Too many years typing on straight rows for this old man.
krm01 7y ago
I've been fascinated with mechanical keyboards for a while. Have been thinking of setting up a Slack channel to build a little community of enthusiast to share their builds / questions / stuff that's for sale etc. Anyone interested in joining such channel? Would love to set it up and connect with MK builders. Send me an email if interested.
- throwawaymath 7y ago
  Why not just go to /r/mechanicalkeyboards? There's a big community there already, and if they don't already have a Slack or IRC channel you could create it with them.
- jakereps 7y ago
  If you're interested in joining one, there are Discord communities with thousands of active users discussing those very things. One of the more generic ones being MechKeys [1], but once you find some designers you like or more niche communities there are dedicated servers most likely for those as well. [1] https://discord.gg/mechkeys https://discord.gg/mechkeys
- dlevine 7y ago
  There is also Geekhack (geekhack.org) and Keebtalk (www.keebtalk.com). I have built a number of keyboards, and have found all the information I have needed on Geekhack.
9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
What is the driver / chip to send the data over USB?
- denimnerd42 7y ago
  teensy or similar. he's using a https://candykeys.com/product/elite-c https://candykeys.com/product/elite-c for this one.
  - sgroppino 7y ago
    That one only has 24 I/O ports... how is he multiplexing all the keys?
    - userbinator 7y ago
      The keys are arranged in a matrix. 24 I/Os would be enough for 12 * 12 = 144 keys.
EDLEoGBo 7y ago
Thanks for sharing the link. This is an awesome DIY.
spectramax 7y ago
Am I the only one who doesn't quite fancy mechanical keys? For me, Mechanical keyboards cause fatigue as the key travel, regardless of which flavor of the key type, is too much. I prefer using Apple's new magic keyboar with numpad. It has a 1mm or so travel and feels fantastic.
- bllguo 7y ago
  it's all preference in the end. I enjoy my mechs but I'm partial to shallow keys too. actually low-profile switches are becoming more of a thing - see the kailh chocs. still very niche though.
- bitxbit 7y ago
  I think some of it is gaming and NKRO (n-key rollover) as well as aesthetics and acoustics.
- chris_engel 7y ago
  Yeah, I always scratch my head in wonder about the mechanical hype. I love keyboards with flat keys that are not required to press down a lot. Also I would love to have a keyboard with zero typing sounds.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    I've known those who preferred keyboards with much less travel. Personally, I type too hard for that to work. When I type on a mac book keyboard, I bottom out and then some every keystroke.
- cjbprime 7y ago
  It's not just you. The main benefits are around aesthetics and reliability, and sometimes comfort/feel. I'm a faster typer on chiclet keys than mechanical (after years of practice on both), although I'm not sure I'd agree that the chiclets are better for my hands -- presumably less key travel means more force traveling into your fingertips. But! There are low-profile switch mechanical keyboards now, and they're very similar to your keyboard. They're still a little hard to find if you want customization (like a preferred switch type).
13415 7y ago
Interesting. I'd like to build my own keyboard, but my crafting skills are not good enough for it. It's a pity how few tenkeyless mechanical keyboards with a ctrl<->capslock dip switch there are, and most of them don't allow you to install matching custom key caps. I'm currently using a Pok3r, which is okay, but I really wish there were more custom keyboard options on the market.
- cjbprime 7y ago
  > It's a pity how few tenkeyless mechanical keyboards with a ctrl<->capslock dip switch there are I suppose it's because everyone knows how to do that mapping in their OS these days. Many mechs even have reflashable firmware, if it came to that.
  - 13415 7y ago
    If you boot several OSes, use ssh connections, and remote desktop connections, this really becomes a hassle. It always breaks at the wrong moment with some kind of OS update. Especially key remapping on Linux is a horrible experience in the long run.
sedatk 7y ago
Yeah you lost me at "Plate CNC cut from 1.5mm aluminum".
k__ 7y ago
Is this like the audiophile movement?
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  Yes.
ganonm 7y ago
Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine. Here is a link to my keyboard layout which you can freely use. It is optimised for Vim and Ubuntu use. https://github.com/Ganon-M/ergodox-vim-ubuntu https://github.com/Ganon-M/ergodox-vim-ubuntu
- jcims 7y ago
  Plus nobody else will want to use your computer. Win win!
  - octocode 7y ago
    Especially if your keys are blanks.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - 0-_-0 7y ago
      The guy sitting next to me at work uses and Erogox with blank keys. He's otherwise normal.
      - jcims 7y ago
        Does anyone use his machine?
        deathanatos 7y ago
        As someone with blank keys on an Ergodox EZ… it's hooked up to a MBP, so I usually offer guests that keyboard, if they need to type. (Mine is also mostly QWERTY, but admittedly that's hard to tell looking at blank caps.)
friggeri 7y ago
Building keyboards is such a rewarding activity. Once you go down that rabbit hole, you can go as deep as you want. Here's one I did a couple of years ago, including a custom PCB: https://medium.com/@friggeri/the-new-blanck-keyboard-c7563c4f9fa https://medium.com/@friggeri/the-new-blanck-keyboard-c7563c4...
- tracker1 7y ago
  Nice... although I have so much muscle memory now, I don't think I could live with too much change (the spacebar in particular). Model-M for life! ;-)
  - clarry 7y ago
    A few weeks of regular use and practice will overcome muscle memory. You just have to force yourself to never touch the old layout during that time. I think that's where most people stumble, because adapting a new layout while trying to do work is kinda frustrating.
Yabood 7y ago
I switched to Kinesis Advantage[1] ten years ago and never looked back. The price tag is high, but worth it. [1] https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards
lexicality 7y ago
I don't really understand why people want such tiny keyboards. The most comfortable (and healthy!) way to type is to have your hands a shoulderwidth apart so you don't have to compress your arms. I used an ergodox infinity for a while which was fantastic in terms of back pain but terrible in terms of everything else. I currently use a Kinesis Advantage 1 which I'm tempted to dremel in half so I can get proper separation. It's that or learn how the Dactyl is configured so I can add enough keys to it to be useful :/
- ZekeSulastin 7y ago
  Aren’t the Ergodoxen already two separate units it is there a cable limitation? I was looking at buying one or a similar split keyboard for the reason you stated.
  - Normal_gaussian 7y ago
    The Ergodox EZ is connected by a replaceable standard 3.5mm (male to male) cable; I presume most ergodoxes are the same.
  - lexicality 7y ago
    They are and that works fine, but the infinity has a really bad case that I had to modify just to stop it sliding around on my desk. Also I had one from the bad batch whose USB ports would occasionally rip off the board taking its traces with it (and mine did)
- Symbiote 7y ago
  If 6x6 is enough, there's someone on Reddit in the USA who makes custom printed Dactyl/Manuform cases: https://www.reddit.com/user/crystalhand/comments/96xu7g/3d_printed_dactylmanuform_cases/ https://www.reddit.com/user/crystalhand/comments/96xu7g/3d_p...
- CarVac 7y ago
  If your keyboard is angled outward then you can bend your elbows and still have your hands close together when typing.
robto 7y ago
I'm currently held back from going into the mechanical keyboard world because I'm hooked on the thinkpad trackpoint stick and mouse buttons below the spacebar - I've got a thinkpad and two usb keyboards with the dot and mouse buttons, and I use them on every computer I touch. Are there mechanical keyboards with built in mouse functionality?
- criddell 7y ago
  If you are able to make a mechanical keyboard (like the person in the linked story is), couldn't you include a trackpoint and buttons?
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Yes, here's an example with a build guide: https://github.com/alonswartz/trackpoint/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/alonswartz/trackpoint/blob/master/README....
- stamps 7y ago
  https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ Mechanical and split ergonomics. Has built in Mouse capability using the keys. They’re also working on attachable touchpad, trackball, and trackpoint (just like a thinkpad).
- ranger207 7y ago
  The Unicomp EnduraPro is a Model M with a trackpoint. Unicomp bought the design, and IIRC the molds, for the Model M from IBM and/or Lenovo when they got rid of them. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
  - projektfu 7y ago
    A word of warning - I haven't found the trackpoint on it to be useful like it was on a thinkpad. It's too jumpy at short distances and too slow at long distances. I've since started using a Logitech M570 instead, as it reminds me of the trackball I used to like before I had a Thinkpad.
zeroego 7y ago
I just bought a Leopold FC980M mechanical keyboard with brown switches. I was hesitant to buy into the hype for a long time. The keyboard cost $130 after shipping, which is expensive for a keyboard in my opinion. But, I can confidently say it was well worth the money. If you do a lot of typing I would seriously recommend giving a mechanical keyboard, specifically a Leopold, a shot.
earenndil 7y ago
Ehh I have a kinesis advantage. There are some things I don't like about it, but I doubt it would be practical for me to make my own keyboard with a bowl shape like kinesis or maltron keyboards. And even if I could figure it out, they've probably done research into exactly what kind of curvature works well for the average hand, so whatever I made would be marginally less ergonomic.
- weinzierl 7y ago
  First of all, if you are happy with the curvature of the Kinesis, the rest of it is pretty hackable. There are various projects around it, one of the more well known is a custom controller and custom software from Michael Stapelberg (of i3 window manager fame)[1]. He gave a Google Tech Talk about the project about a year ago[2]. Now, if you are not happy with the curvature things get more complicated and I'm not aware of any projects that did a custom housing. That being said I think it is not unrealistic. The biggest problem is to create a curved cover with holes for the key switches. All the switches are mounted on flexible PCBs which should adapt to your new case as long as the curvature is not too crazy. So basically all you need to customize is the top part of the housing, the rest can stay the same. [1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custom_controller/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custo... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bX6iqqR3XY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bX6iqqR3XY
- Symbiote 7y ago
  There are 11 bowl-type DIY keyboards shown [1]. They're usually 3D printed and handwired. Some of them are adjustable to vary the offset of each row and the depth etc. [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html
shmerl 7y ago
I'd swaps Caps Lock and Ctrl.
agumonkey 7y ago
As usual, madereth comes to mind: http://adereth.github.io/blog/2014/04/09/3d-printing-with-clojure/ http://adereth.github.io/blog/2014/04/09/3d-printing-with-cl... http://adereth.github.io/blog/2015/11/19/clojure-slash-conj-talk-on-3d-printing-keyboards/ http://adereth.github.io/blog/2015/11/19/clojure-slash-conj-... clojure wrapped openscad to live design your keyboard from emacs/cider. '(have fun)
BiteCode_dev 7y ago
My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with your keyboard). - you will not be exposed to many different keyboards, or layouts (e.g: you don't need to go help users and customers on their machine that don't allow plugging in, you don't teach, you don't use your phone a lot, etc). Switching layouts all the time is a nightmare. - you can afford the initial lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output). - cables and taking space are ok. Taste is taste, after all. - you have the money, and find it is better invested in this than say, a better screen, mouse, graphic card, battery, etc. And renewal. Or you have enough to have it all. - you are certain of this model is what you need or you can afford trying many. There are many ergonomic keyboards. They are all special and expensive in their own way. - your layout is available. I'm french, I use AZERTY. Or you are fine learning to type with the wrong letters, or using stickers. I often buy/user computers in/from the US, and just type from memory after setting the QWERTY to an AZERTY layout. One of my friend like Dvorak (actually Bepo, the fr version)... - nobody else than you will use your computer. Or you have several setup and are ok to switch every time. Now I understand that as it's my job, optimizing this key element of it makes sense. But hell, that's a lot of per-requisites.
- steve19 7y ago
  > - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.
  - username90 7y ago
    Is RSI even that normal? I have never heard anyone talk about it in real life, only in these threads does it seem like everyone has it.
    - 7y ago
mLuby 7y ago
"New keys. What do you think." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHt01D6rOLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHt01D6rOLI (If American Psycho were about Programmers)
cellis 7y ago
10 months in with my Ultimate Hacker Keyboard, and I can confidently say that it brings me more joy than any other electronic device I have, with maybe the exception of my MBP. Before I had mild RSI here and there, but with the UHK I have zero pain, ever. But it did take a lot of learning. I spent about 3 months feeling like an idiot ( hitting keys that weren't there, forgetting which macro I'd mapped, typing an arrow in vim mode instead of hjkl, etc ), so maybe it's not for everyone.
- giulianob 7y ago
  I have an UHK now and love it so much that I bring it back and forth to work everyday. Before the UHK I had a MS Sculpt and was a bit worried I wouldn't be able to get used to the UHK so I used Karabiner to set up a mod later and pretrained myself for a couple of weeks before pulling the trigger. Once I got the UHK the learning curve wasn't bad at all. For people who maybe tried a split keyboard and couldn't deal with it I would recommend the UHK since it's mostly the same as a regular keyboard.
  - cellis 7y ago
    "That I bring it back and forth to work everyday". Yeah, I said to hell with that, and just bought another one for work!
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I'd love to get a split keyboard (especially one with a long cable so I can have the two halves shoulder-length apart), but 300 euros for a keyboard is WAAAY too much. Maybe I can somehow repurpose my old (or even current) Das keyboard into a split one.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    Depending where you're coming from, 300Euros one time payment can be a steal compared to the time and money you could end up spending at the physiotherapist or chiropractor later in life. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here but I find it ironic that some well paid developers in the western world can justify dropping nearly $1000 every year on the latest handheld social media machine and consider that a worthy investment but when it comes to spending $300 once on something that can help prevent certain health conditions it suddenly can't be justified.
egypturnash 7y ago
This unusual layout arrived from a convoluted train of thought - switching from a full-size to help with mouse-related RSI issues; missing the keypad; and being left-handed. Honestly as a righty putting the numpad on the left makes much more sense to me now that everyone expects to have a mouse in easy reach of their dominant hand. Not that I've put this in practice myself; the only time I ever really need a numpad in my life is on the very rare occasions I'm playing a roguelike.
mastazi 7y ago
I just realised that having the keypad on the left is actually a great idea, solves the problem of wanting to keep the mouse closer to the main section of the keyboard, while keeping the keypad. Also, the keypad placed on the left can double as a cheaper alternative to those expensive gaming keypads. Anyone who is not into DIY could achieve the same by combining a TKL (tenkeyless) keyboard and a stand-alone USB numeric keypad.
dblooman 7y ago
I've always wanted a mechanical keyboard with the layout of the Apple magic keyboard, couldn't get use to the windows key position and missed the fn key. Always thought about building my own
- joeblubaugh 7y ago
  I solve this by remapping keys in software and then swapping the key caps - building your own is really fun but it isn’t required!
  - misterbuzzkill 7y ago
    That's not the problem (at least for me). On an Apple keyboard the right edge of the X key aligns with the right edge of the command key, which makes it easily accessible by your left thumb from a resting position. Most non-Apple keyboards use a layout where the command/alt key is half a key width to the left. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes those keyboards really uncomfortable for me to use.
- leipert 7y ago
  I am using a Das Keyboard Mac version.
hinkley 7y ago
The keyboard I want is one where the surfaces can be separated from the electronics so I can wash the damn thing. I believe there was one gaming keyboard that worked this way (custom overlays) and Logitech has one keyboard they claim is washable, but IIRC the keys are mushy. No thanks.
lleolin 7y ago
I've wanted a left-side number pad for a long time. I've contended that (for right-handed people) having a number pad on the right is poor ergonomics. If I centered such a keyboard in front of me, then the number pad would be in the way of my mouse. So I end up offsetting the keyboard several inches to the left, which causes me to have to position my arms awkwardly in order to reach the letters. I ended up using keyboards with no number pads at all (in my case a Leopold FC660C).
- skybrian 7y ago
  Maybe buy a separate number pad? Looks like they are $30 to $40 or so.
- leipert 7y ago
  I don’t have too much trouble with this just yet. But the next keyboard will be without a num block, but I will add a https://www.ipv6buddy.com/ https://www.ipv6buddy.com/ to the right of my mouse for all my hex and up address needs. (Not affiliated, just a fan)
- steverb 7y ago
  That was one of the things I liked about the MS Sculpt Keyboard, the numpad is its own separate device. You can put it wherever you want it.
frostburg 7y ago
I find building keyboards very relaxing (here is my work so far: https://ereign.is/objects/ https://ereign.is/objects/). The split orthos are very usable and comfortable after a few hours of acclimatization (I mostly use a commercial Topre board for now, I should finish designing QMK layouts that better serve my needs).
- LeftHandPath 7y ago
  Those look badass! Reminds me of some of the ergo keyboards that I looked at in the past... only a lot more stylish. The first one [0] reminds me of an old Learjet or Falcon 10 cockpit with the lights lit up (see [1]). I really love the look of the wires you chose, as well, with the knurled connector housing and heavy-duty threading for the cords. The Nyquist Rev. 2.1 [2] looks like its fresh off the Nostromo. Do you do your own CNC/laser engraving or are the keys OTS? [0]: https://ereign.is/objects/1.jpg https://ereign.is/objects/1.jpg [1]: http://d16bsf97ryvc45.cloudfront.net/Media/2012/07/F10-sn176-Cockpit-268.jpg http://d16bsf97ryvc45.cloudfront.net/Media/2012/07/F10-sn176... [2]: https://ereign.is/objects/3.jpg https://ereign.is/objects/3.jpg
  - frostburg 7y ago
    The keycaps are all from group buys, nothing custom; unfortunately I don't have the equipment to make them (there is no practical way to do double-shot injection molding on a small scale, but dye sublimation on blanks could be possible). I went for a PCB with underglow leds for the "space cadet" replica keycaps because unlike the others shining a in-switch led thru them wouldn't have looked interesting.
overcast 7y ago
What amazes me is the amount of money dumped into standard rectangular keyboards, with zero ergonomics.
memn0nis 7y ago
Are mechanical keyboards that much "better" (I know this is subjective) than normal laptop keyboards (I have a macbook pro). I'm considering buying one but they are quite expensive...
- hesdeadjim 7y ago
  It’s completely and totally subjective. I don’t personally enjoy them as I find them too elevated and uncomfortable. Regardless, I enjoy looking at the keyboards people build over on /r/mechanicalkeyboards I’d add that subjective also applies to ergonomics. I recognize that the Ergo series is borderline life changing for some people, but I greatly prefer the Apple keyboards and their extremely low profile. To each their own.
- npo9 7y ago
  It depends. Mechanical keyboards last for about a decade, probably more. During which time I’ll be at my main computer and typing about 20,000hours. So using a mechanical keyboard less than a penny an hour. So yeah, if something makes my time a little more comfortable I’d consider it worth that cost.
  - 2rsf 7y ago
    that doesn't answer the original question of > Are mechanical keyboards that much "better"
    - npo9 7y ago
      It tries to quantify how much better a mechanical keyboard needs to be before it is worth it, which is not much.
- jhrkjlhwer 7y ago
  That's a pretty low bar. Even a cheap dome keyboard is much better than a laptop keyboard. And you can get a mechanical keyboard for less than $100, if you don't want RGB and fancy features.
- 7y ago
Wistar 7y ago
I did just that. I hired Darrell Fandrich to build it. He started with a 5'10" case and soundboard built in Guangzhou, China but discarded the soundboard. We chose a scale design by Lothar Schell and a Holy Grail stringing scale by Fandrich with strings custom wound for the scale by Mapes in Kentucky. The stringing scale included special Mapes aluminum strings that cover the first six notes above the point where the overstring section begins—these are designed to better blend the the overstring transition which can otherwise be notchy. A custom soundboard was crafted in Boston from hand-picked straight-grain Siberian spruce and milled to a diaphragmatic shape that mimics Steinway soundboards where the center is about half an inch thick but, to enhance liveness and sustain power, tapers down to about 1/4 inch at the edges where it meets the case. A custom Renner action was added and outfitted with Abel Royal Blue grand hammers. Key weighting and fine voicing conducted in stages over the course of several months finished it off. That was in 1998-99 and it is still the best keyboard I have ever used.
- zenexer 7y ago
  This article is about computer keyboards, not musical keyboards. What you’ve posted doesn’t make sense in the context of this topic.
  - Wistar 7y ago
    Oh. It just said "keyboard you want." My mistake.
    - zenexer 7y ago
      Did you click it? You’re supposed to click the link to view the article before commenting. There’s a very clear picture of the keyboard above-the-fold.
      - Wistar 7y ago
        I was championing keyboard diversity.
zenexer 7y ago
A number of commenters seem to be confused. This link is about computer keyboards, not musical keyboards, as is immediately evident when viewing the link. Please at least click the link before you comment on a Hacker News post.
m0zg 7y ago
IMO the most reasonable upgrade for 99.999% of "normal" people is just a plain $90 mechanical keyboard with Cherry switches. Any advantages of all this other stuff are pretty incremental unless you are really spending your days typing non-stop, which I'd wager is rare among software engineers.
numlock86 7y ago
> If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead Lucky me. I can just go into most stores and pick up a Cherry Board MX 3.0 with MX Black. :)
co_dh 7y ago
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=535590071686&spm=a2141.7631565.1.2_1 https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=535590071686... This(pro) is what I am using now. Cheaper than ergodox ez but more beautiful. You may need compile QMK yourself because it is flipped as compare to EZ
- Symbiote 7y ago
  I'm not sure why this is downvoted, except perhaps because you linked to the mobile site. Here's the normal site: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=535590071686 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=535590071686 (site is in Chinese. This is an open-source design, so there's no problem that a Chinese manufacturer is producing it.)
  - co_dh 7y ago
    Thank you.
esotericsean 7y ago
I love the idea of a mechanical keyboard (and I would love to build one), but I hate the thick keys and travel distance of each key press (I'm used to the thing keys on my MacBook Pro). Are there any mechanical switches that are low-travel?
- joatmon-snoo 7y ago
  https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-low-profile/mx-low-profile-red.html https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-low-profile/mx-low-profile-red...
- dahx4Eev 7y ago
  Kailh low profile key switches
- Tokiin 7y ago
  If you want to test the waters instead of going with a full build at the start, pre-built ones are starting to pop up from popular brands, ex. https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/peripheral/keyboards/sk630/ https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/peripheral/keyboards/sk...
drdeadringer 7y ago
For many years, bordering on a decade, I have entertained the idea of purchasing a keyboard from a particular Maker who partakes [now partook?] in creating gothic, retro, and similar-style keyboards to the tune of several thousand USD. I have since not dipped in, but the marbles roll around in my mind. To me, such purchase opportunities inspire both money-spending as well as creative inspirations.
ansible 7y ago
Having the mouse in the right side of the keyboard puts it too far away. My solution is to just mouse left-handed. As a right handed person, this does take some training, but it had been worth it in the long run. That, plus an ergonomic keyboard solved most of my problems.
leome 7y ago
Or hire someone do it for you :)

501 points by fogus 7y ago

Title should be modified to "build it instead (as long as you want a mechanical keyboard). I love Apple's Magic Keyboard 2 very much. I've looked around a lot, but there's nothing out there with its super low profile that's also customizable. My ideal keyboard would be a Magic Keyboard with a variety of key colors, RGB lights, and the ability to split it in half so I can put my arms in a better position.

amerine 7y ago

I love custom keyboards. Sharing work like this is pretty inspiring. All I’ve done is solder two ergodox’s from massdrop, but it was a blast.

souterrain 7y ago
I find custom keyboards to be beautiful, but I have a very hard time using a proper mechanical keyboard. I am not a proper touch-typist, and lack the patience or free time to re-learn. I tried with an Ergodox for some time, but it became so frustrating that it interfered with my appreciation for the engineering and artistry of the thing. Any suggestions relating to low-profile, short-travel switches/keycaps that will work in kits found from massdrop, et al?
- Normal_gaussian 7y ago
  I finally bought an Ergodox EZ just over a month ago, after suspecting a split keyboard could solve some postural issues for a while (its practically impossible to use a split keyboard whilst sitting lopsided). I was a touch typist (two hands, and completely left handed), but I was "wasd" centred. Learning to home row type was by far the hardest thing about the keyboard. It took me a week of 8/hr a day coding/writing to get back up to speed. Thankfully I didn't have work commitments so could go all in - but on day 3 I was so very close to quitting. AFAICT it has completely sorted my tendency to move into a bad posture - and for that I know it is worth it. But to spend 40hrs getting frustrated and working slowly? I couldn't justify it without the posture problem.
- amerine 7y ago
  Unfortunately I don't have advice to pass along, I'm sorry. :-( I found the Leopold FC660M randomly on the internet and fell in love with it and have't touched another keyboard since.
trashcat 7y ago
Building your keyboards is always the way to go! I've built about 10 now and I love it every time.

Tharkun 7y ago

If you're at all into custom keyboard making, and you haven't already, check out the QMK firmware: https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ It makes it a lot easier to deal with the non-standard layouts that you'll probably want to use.

politelemon 7y ago

I'm simply a mechanical keyboard user, I have a few trusty Filcos that I use and I will sometimes buy a keycap set and wait 1 year for it[1]; I don't have the courage to build custom keyboards. However I do derive a vicarious pleasure looking at the build logs and end results shared by others, this post included. The two best places I've found to follow are the /r/mechanicalkeyboards[2] subreddit and the geekhack.org[3] forms which goes even more in-depth into specific subtopics. It's a lovely world of enthusiasts that I am happy to place on a pedestal and admire. [1]: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-matt3o-mt3-susuwatari-custom-keycap-set?mode=guest_open https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-matt3o-mt3-susuwatari-custom... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards [3]: https://geekhack.org/ https://geekhack.org/

Symbiote 7y ago
There's also a fairly new subreddit, /r/ErgoMechKeyboards/, which only has ergonomic keyboards (simply split ones, or more usually with staggered columns rather than rows, and often a 3D shape). Fewer fancy, expensive keycap sets, and more works-in-progress with wires sticking out. https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  Thanks! That's neat.
- 7thaccount 7y ago
  Can any of these be bought? I love mechanical keyboards, but I can only use an ergonomical keyboard
  - lsc 7y ago
    I use a kinesis advantage2 with brown cherry keyswitches. (I think it's available with others) - my only complaint is that it's kinda giant. Overall, it's pretty great; if you don't want to build your own, and if you don't want to change your keyboard, it's the best choice because it has been in production since the early '90s with few changes to layout; for me? this is big- changing layout is a big deal. The kinesis has been in production long enough that I am pretty confident I won't have to learn a new layout until keyboards go by the wayside It's probably the least portable keyboard I've owned, though. Oh yeah, link to buy: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/ You can get them next-day from amazon, too, which is nice for essential parts such as these.

rwmj 7y ago

He built his own keyboard and still included a huge CapsLock key in the place where god intended Ctrl to go?

quotemstr 7y ago
No, no, no. It's written "CapsLock" but pronounced "Control".
- trashcat 7y ago
  This is how most of my keyboards are because not many key sets come with big Ctrl keys.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    Particularly if you're not interested in spending €100 plus on the keycaps, then there are keycaps on Alibaba for much less money, but they don't necessarily cater to every possible layout. This keyboard is using this $27 set: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006008300.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006008300.html
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  That's still a little confusing. Can we get that in International Phonetic Alphabet?
- lawn 7y ago
  I think you spelled "escape" wrong. Yes, I'm a vim user. On the keyboards that support it I've had it remap to another layer if I hold it, but I'm thinking of using it for escape/ctrl, as I do use some emacs commands from time to time (mostly evil mode, but not everything). But I haven't decided where to put my layer switch key yet.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Dual esc/ctrl is the way to go. I still get phantom esc presses when I decide half-way that I don't need to ctrl+anything, but it's worth it.

wishinghand 7y ago

I’m on the verge of doing this. I have an Ergodox EZ but I want thumb clusters that are more useful, plus I’d like an encoder knob or two. The Kyria is close but it doesn’t do RGB per key or have a thumb cluster that exactly matches what I want. To the drawing board I go!

andrewflnr 7y ago
TIL people put knobs on their keyboards. Do you generally have to configure your own actions for knob events or is there software that supports them out of the box?
- Symbiote 7y ago
  If many people have added the encoders in the same way to the same keyboard (e.g. because there's an optional space on the PCB for it), then it's probably just a configuration option on the keyboard firmware. If you've made a completely custom keyboard, or hacked an existing PCB to add the encoder, then there is a little more configuration. Either way, there's then a few lines of code to define the action when turning the encoder knob. The keyboard is configured to either send keys (e.g. PageUp/PageDown, Up/Down, VolumeUp/VolumeDown, AltTab/AltShiftTab) or to send mouse wheel events. You can have it send something different if you're holding "Fn" or whatever, or anything else you can think of. There's no software needed on the computer. https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_encoders https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_encoders
- wishinghand 7y ago
  If I get one, it'll be for volume. If I get two, the second will control scrolling up and down.
  - samatman 7y ago
    I solve the latter with a Kensington trackball with a nice, generous scroll wheel. Pity it lacks a third mouse button. I've considered glomming a button to the front (cable) side with some Sugru...
7y ago

excalibur 7y ago

Needs more Function keys

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
So build it.
- doublement 7y ago
  I don't have room in my apartment to even learn about building physical objects! I'd love to turn my various Arduino doodads into coherent forms but my workspace is a desktop.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    You don't need much to start out with. Check and see if there's a makerspace nearby- they generally have A) space and B) people willing to teach and demonstrate how things are done.

ourmandave 7y ago

Meh, the Phantom has been doing this since 1925. And try getting custom keys delivered to an opera house on a Saturday before a big open.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
What?
zenexer 7y ago
Can you elaborate? This album is about a person who built their own keyboard, but it sounds like you're describing a company. Are you saying that company designs custom keyboards?
- egypturnash 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_of_the_Opera
  - zenexer 7y ago
    I got the potential reference. I just don’t understand what’s being said here—is it a joke?
    - zenexer 7y ago
      I figured it out. The commenter thought keyboard was referring to musical keyboards, which are not the subject of this post. In the future, please click the link before commenting.

qwerty456127 7y ago

I want a keyboard with an extra row of keys (I could use for additional characters in a custom layout) between the letters and the numbers. Is this possible?

wpasc 7y ago
you could get a keyboard with the standard function keys and create a custom keymap where the function keys did the numbers and the numbers did whatever you wanted
wielebny 7y ago
I use ms natural keyboard 4000 just because of that - extra row of keys that can be programmed to the liking. It's a shame that it does not have a USB hub (previous version had it) and that newer versions lack this row.
Symbiote 7y ago
Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? If you don't, choose a keyboard with an appropriate physical arrangement (I happen to have [1], which would work for this), and program it accordingly -- any mechanical keyboard lets you move the key mapping around. Optionally swap the plastic key caps around. (You could also achieve this OS-side on any cheap keyboard.) If you want an additional row, you'll probably need to make the keyboard yourself. The fashion seems to be to reduce the number of available keys rather than increase it. Depending what you want it for, an alternative is to add an extra modifier key and use that modifier to get your extra characters, "FN+1" etc. Programming the keyboard to send arbitrary characters depends on the OS and the keyboard firmware. See [2]. [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html [2] https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode
- oAlbe 7y ago
  Is it generally reliable to buy such an item from aliexpress? Don't you end up with cheap version of more expensive keyboards? Asking because I've been looking for a 75% (non-split) keyboard for a long time, and it seems like aliexpress might have what I'm looking for. I'm just worried about ending up with a knock off.

carapace 7y ago

Check out the "Dactyl-ManuForm": https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard > a parameterized, split-hand, concave, columnar, ergonomic keyboard.

melling 7y ago
How about a 3D-printed DataHand clone... https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
- dahx4Eev 7y ago
  I’m building this. Care to share more about it? What key map do you use?
hailwren 7y ago
If you're into ergonomics, this one is pretty much the holy grail.
hrgiger 7y ago
I wonder how difficult would be mouse functionality integration to both of them or there was such an attempt before, would be quite interesting to use those with double pointer.
- carapace 7y ago
  IIRC there was a variation someone made with a small trackball under the thumb. I thought that was an interesting idea. You're talking about having two mice inputs? That's pretty cool.
  - hrgiger 7y ago
    Yes two mouse inputs, one per hand, if such a tool exist I could definitely try it!

qes 7y ago

One day I'll likely be faced with making my own keyboard layout or losing the wonderful Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Delete layout I've been used to for years now on a long discontinued keyboard model (I seriously have a box of spares under the bed that I bought when they stopped being made). I've found myself adaptable to the action of many keyboards, but there's some layout features I'm very particular about.

JoshTriplett 7y ago
> a long discontinued keyboard model Can you provide a link with a picture to show what you mean about the layout?
- qes 7y ago
  https://i.imgur.com/oreqrA1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/oreqrA1.jpg
aidenn0 7y ago
Logitech still makes some keyboards with that distinctive large delete key, but I'm in the US, so I don't know if they have an ISO layout version of it. Example: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-keyboard-k350#specification-tabular https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-keyboard-k35...
- qes 7y ago
  Oh yeah, the Wave. Forgot about that one because I really don't care much for curved layouts. Too many years typing on straight rows for this old man.

krm01 7y ago

I've been fascinated with mechanical keyboards for a while. Have been thinking of setting up a Slack channel to build a little community of enthusiast to share their builds / questions / stuff that's for sale etc. Anyone interested in joining such channel? Would love to set it up and connect with MK builders. Send me an email if interested.

throwawaymath 7y ago
Why not just go to /r/mechanicalkeyboards? There's a big community there already, and if they don't already have a Slack or IRC channel you could create it with them.
jakereps 7y ago
If you're interested in joining one, there are Discord communities with thousands of active users discussing those very things. One of the more generic ones being MechKeys [1], but once you find some designers you like or more niche communities there are dedicated servers most likely for those as well. [1] https://discord.gg/mechkeys https://discord.gg/mechkeys
dlevine 7y ago
There is also Geekhack (geekhack.org) and Keebtalk (www.keebtalk.com). I have built a number of keyboards, and have found all the information I have needed on Geekhack.

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago

What is the driver / chip to send the data over USB?

denimnerd42 7y ago
teensy or similar. he's using a https://candykeys.com/product/elite-c https://candykeys.com/product/elite-c for this one.
- sgroppino 7y ago
  That one only has 24 I/O ports... how is he multiplexing all the keys?
  - userbinator 7y ago
    The keys are arranged in a matrix. 24 I/Os would be enough for 12 * 12 = 144 keys.

EDLEoGBo 7y ago

Thanks for sharing the link. This is an awesome DIY.

spectramax 7y ago

Am I the only one who doesn't quite fancy mechanical keys? For me, Mechanical keyboards cause fatigue as the key travel, regardless of which flavor of the key type, is too much. I prefer using Apple's new magic keyboar with numpad. It has a 1mm or so travel and feels fantastic.

bllguo 7y ago
it's all preference in the end. I enjoy my mechs but I'm partial to shallow keys too. actually low-profile switches are becoming more of a thing - see the kailh chocs. still very niche though.
bitxbit 7y ago
I think some of it is gaming and NKRO (n-key rollover) as well as aesthetics and acoustics.
chris_engel 7y ago
Yeah, I always scratch my head in wonder about the mechanical hype. I love keyboards with flat keys that are not required to press down a lot. Also I would love to have a keyboard with zero typing sounds.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  I've known those who preferred keyboards with much less travel. Personally, I type too hard for that to work. When I type on a mac book keyboard, I bottom out and then some every keystroke.
cjbprime 7y ago
It's not just you. The main benefits are around aesthetics and reliability, and sometimes comfort/feel. I'm a faster typer on chiclet keys than mechanical (after years of practice on both), although I'm not sure I'd agree that the chiclets are better for my hands -- presumably less key travel means more force traveling into your fingertips. But! There are low-profile switch mechanical keyboards now, and they're very similar to your keyboard. They're still a little hard to find if you want customization (like a preferred switch type).

13415 7y ago

Interesting. I'd like to build my own keyboard, but my crafting skills are not good enough for it. It's a pity how few tenkeyless mechanical keyboards with a ctrl<->capslock dip switch there are, and most of them don't allow you to install matching custom key caps. I'm currently using a Pok3r, which is okay, but I really wish there were more custom keyboard options on the market.

cjbprime 7y ago
> It's a pity how few tenkeyless mechanical keyboards with a ctrl<->capslock dip switch there are I suppose it's because everyone knows how to do that mapping in their OS these days. Many mechs even have reflashable firmware, if it came to that.
- 13415 7y ago
  If you boot several OSes, use ssh connections, and remote desktop connections, this really becomes a hassle. It always breaks at the wrong moment with some kind of OS update. Especially key remapping on Linux is a horrible experience in the long run.

sedatk 7y ago

Yeah you lost me at "Plate CNC cut from 1.5mm aluminum".

k__ 7y ago

Is this like the audiophile movement?

GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Yes.

ganonm 7y ago

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine. Here is a link to my keyboard layout which you can freely use. It is optimised for Vim and Ubuntu use. https://github.com/Ganon-M/ergodox-vim-ubuntu https://github.com/Ganon-M/ergodox-vim-ubuntu

jcims 7y ago
Plus nobody else will want to use your computer. Win win!
- octocode 7y ago
  Especially if your keys are blanks.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0-_-0 7y ago
    The guy sitting next to me at work uses and Erogox with blank keys. He's otherwise normal.
    - jcims 7y ago
      Does anyone use his machine?
      - deathanatos 7y ago
        As someone with blank keys on an Ergodox EZ… it's hooked up to a MBP, so I usually offer guests that keyboard, if they need to type. (Mine is also mostly QWERTY, but admittedly that's hard to tell looking at blank caps.)

friggeri 7y ago

Building keyboards is such a rewarding activity. Once you go down that rabbit hole, you can go as deep as you want. Here's one I did a couple of years ago, including a custom PCB: https://medium.com/@friggeri/the-new-blanck-keyboard-c7563c4f9fa https://medium.com/@friggeri/the-new-blanck-keyboard-c7563c4...

tracker1 7y ago
Nice... although I have so much muscle memory now, I don't think I could live with too much change (the spacebar in particular). Model-M for life! ;-)
- clarry 7y ago
  A few weeks of regular use and practice will overcome muscle memory. You just have to force yourself to never touch the old layout during that time. I think that's where most people stumble, because adapting a new layout while trying to do work is kinda frustrating.

Yabood 7y ago

I switched to Kinesis Advantage[1] ten years ago and never looked back. The price tag is high, but worth it. [1] https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards

lexicality 7y ago

I don't really understand why people want such tiny keyboards. The most comfortable (and healthy!) way to type is to have your hands a shoulderwidth apart so you don't have to compress your arms. I used an ergodox infinity for a while which was fantastic in terms of back pain but terrible in terms of everything else. I currently use a Kinesis Advantage 1 which I'm tempted to dremel in half so I can get proper separation. It's that or learn how the Dactyl is configured so I can add enough keys to it to be useful :/

ZekeSulastin 7y ago
Aren’t the Ergodoxen already two separate units it is there a cable limitation? I was looking at buying one or a similar split keyboard for the reason you stated.
- Normal_gaussian 7y ago
  The Ergodox EZ is connected by a replaceable standard 3.5mm (male to male) cable; I presume most ergodoxes are the same.
- lexicality 7y ago
  They are and that works fine, but the infinity has a really bad case that I had to modify just to stop it sliding around on my desk. Also I had one from the bad batch whose USB ports would occasionally rip off the board taking its traces with it (and mine did)
Symbiote 7y ago
If 6x6 is enough, there's someone on Reddit in the USA who makes custom printed Dactyl/Manuform cases: https://www.reddit.com/user/crystalhand/comments/96xu7g/3d_printed_dactylmanuform_cases/ https://www.reddit.com/user/crystalhand/comments/96xu7g/3d_p...
CarVac 7y ago
If your keyboard is angled outward then you can bend your elbows and still have your hands close together when typing.

robto 7y ago

I'm currently held back from going into the mechanical keyboard world because I'm hooked on the thinkpad trackpoint stick and mouse buttons below the spacebar - I've got a thinkpad and two usb keyboards with the dot and mouse buttons, and I use them on every computer I touch. Are there mechanical keyboards with built in mouse functionality?

criddell 7y ago
If you are able to make a mechanical keyboard (like the person in the linked story is), couldn't you include a trackpoint and buttons?
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Yes, here's an example with a build guide: https://github.com/alonswartz/trackpoint/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/alonswartz/trackpoint/blob/master/README....
stamps 7y ago
https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ Mechanical and split ergonomics. Has built in Mouse capability using the keys. They’re also working on attachable touchpad, trackball, and trackpoint (just like a thinkpad).
ranger207 7y ago
The Unicomp EnduraPro is a Model M with a trackpoint. Unicomp bought the design, and IIRC the molds, for the Model M from IBM and/or Lenovo when they got rid of them. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
- projektfu 7y ago
  A word of warning - I haven't found the trackpoint on it to be useful like it was on a thinkpad. It's too jumpy at short distances and too slow at long distances. I've since started using a Logitech M570 instead, as it reminds me of the trackball I used to like before I had a Thinkpad.

zeroego 7y ago

I just bought a Leopold FC980M mechanical keyboard with brown switches. I was hesitant to buy into the hype for a long time. The keyboard cost $130 after shipping, which is expensive for a keyboard in my opinion. But, I can confidently say it was well worth the money. If you do a lot of typing I would seriously recommend giving a mechanical keyboard, specifically a Leopold, a shot.

earenndil 7y ago

Ehh I have a kinesis advantage. There are some things I don't like about it, but I doubt it would be practical for me to make my own keyboard with a bowl shape like kinesis or maltron keyboards. And even if I could figure it out, they've probably done research into exactly what kind of curvature works well for the average hand, so whatever I made would be marginally less ergonomic.

weinzierl 7y ago
First of all, if you are happy with the curvature of the Kinesis, the rest of it is pretty hackable. There are various projects around it, one of the more well known is a custom controller and custom software from Michael Stapelberg (of i3 window manager fame)[1]. He gave a Google Tech Talk about the project about a year ago[2]. Now, if you are not happy with the curvature things get more complicated and I'm not aware of any projects that did a custom housing. That being said I think it is not unrealistic. The biggest problem is to create a curved cover with holes for the key switches. All the switches are mounted on flexible PCBs which should adapt to your new case as long as the curvature is not too crazy. So basically all you need to customize is the top part of the housing, the rest can stay the same. [1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custom_controller/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custo... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bX6iqqR3XY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bX6iqqR3XY
Symbiote 7y ago
There are 11 bowl-type DIY keyboards shown [1]. They're usually 3D printed and handwired. Some of them are adjustable to vary the offset of each row and the depth etc. [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html

shmerl 7y ago

I'd swaps Caps Lock and Ctrl.

agumonkey 7y ago

As usual, madereth comes to mind: http://adereth.github.io/blog/2014/04/09/3d-printing-with-clojure/ http://adereth.github.io/blog/2014/04/09/3d-printing-with-cl... http://adereth.github.io/blog/2015/11/19/clojure-slash-conj-talk-on-3d-printing-keyboards/ http://adereth.github.io/blog/2015/11/19/clojure-slash-conj-... clojure wrapped openscad to live design your keyboard from emacs/cider. '(have fun)

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with your keyboard). - you will not be exposed to many different keyboards, or layouts (e.g: you don't need to go help users and customers on their machine that don't allow plugging in, you don't teach, you don't use your phone a lot, etc). Switching layouts all the time is a nightmare. - you can afford the initial lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output). - cables and taking space are ok. Taste is taste, after all. - you have the money, and find it is better invested in this than say, a better screen, mouse, graphic card, battery, etc. And renewal. Or you have enough to have it all. - you are certain of this model is what you need or you can afford trying many. There are many ergonomic keyboards. They are all special and expensive in their own way. - your layout is available. I'm french, I use AZERTY. Or you are fine learning to type with the wrong letters, or using stickers. I often buy/user computers in/from the US, and just type from memory after setting the QWERTY to an AZERTY layout. One of my friend like Dvorak (actually Bepo, the fr version)... - nobody else than you will use your computer. Or you have several setup and are ok to switch every time. Now I understand that as it's my job, optimizing this key element of it makes sense. But hell, that's a lot of per-requisites.

steve19 7y ago
> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.
- username90 7y ago
  Is RSI even that normal? I have never heard anyone talk about it in real life, only in these threads does it seem like everyone has it.
  - 7y ago

mLuby 7y ago

"New keys. What do you think." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHt01D6rOLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHt01D6rOLI (If American Psycho were about Programmers)

cellis 7y ago

10 months in with my Ultimate Hacker Keyboard, and I can confidently say that it brings me more joy than any other electronic device I have, with maybe the exception of my MBP. Before I had mild RSI here and there, but with the UHK I have zero pain, ever. But it did take a lot of learning. I spent about 3 months feeling like an idiot ( hitting keys that weren't there, forgetting which macro I'd mapped, typing an arrow in vim mode instead of hjkl, etc ), so maybe it's not for everyone.

giulianob 7y ago
I have an UHK now and love it so much that I bring it back and forth to work everyday. Before the UHK I had a MS Sculpt and was a bit worried I wouldn't be able to get used to the UHK so I used Karabiner to set up a mod later and pretrained myself for a couple of weeks before pulling the trigger. Once I got the UHK the learning curve wasn't bad at all. For people who maybe tried a split keyboard and couldn't deal with it I would recommend the UHK since it's mostly the same as a regular keyboard.
- cellis 7y ago
  "That I bring it back and forth to work everyday". Yeah, I said to hell with that, and just bought another one for work!
StavrosK 7y ago
I'd love to get a split keyboard (especially one with a long cable so I can have the two halves shoulder-length apart), but 300 euros for a keyboard is WAAAY too much. Maybe I can somehow repurpose my old (or even current) Das keyboard into a split one.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  Depending where you're coming from, 300Euros one time payment can be a steal compared to the time and money you could end up spending at the physiotherapist or chiropractor later in life. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here but I find it ironic that some well paid developers in the western world can justify dropping nearly $1000 every year on the latest handheld social media machine and consider that a worthy investment but when it comes to spending $300 once on something that can help prevent certain health conditions it suddenly can't be justified.

egypturnash 7y ago

This unusual layout arrived from a convoluted train of thought - switching from a full-size to help with mouse-related RSI issues; missing the keypad; and being left-handed. Honestly as a righty putting the numpad on the left makes much more sense to me now that everyone expects to have a mouse in easy reach of their dominant hand. Not that I've put this in practice myself; the only time I ever really need a numpad in my life is on the very rare occasions I'm playing a roguelike.

mastazi 7y ago

I just realised that having the keypad on the left is actually a great idea, solves the problem of wanting to keep the mouse closer to the main section of the keyboard, while keeping the keypad. Also, the keypad placed on the left can double as a cheaper alternative to those expensive gaming keypads. Anyone who is not into DIY could achieve the same by combining a TKL (tenkeyless) keyboard and a stand-alone USB numeric keypad.

dblooman 7y ago

I've always wanted a mechanical keyboard with the layout of the Apple magic keyboard, couldn't get use to the windows key position and missed the fn key. Always thought about building my own

joeblubaugh 7y ago
I solve this by remapping keys in software and then swapping the key caps - building your own is really fun but it isn’t required!
- misterbuzzkill 7y ago
  That's not the problem (at least for me). On an Apple keyboard the right edge of the X key aligns with the right edge of the command key, which makes it easily accessible by your left thumb from a resting position. Most non-Apple keyboards use a layout where the command/alt key is half a key width to the left. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes those keyboards really uncomfortable for me to use.
leipert 7y ago
I am using a Das Keyboard Mac version.

hinkley 7y ago

The keyboard I want is one where the surfaces can be separated from the electronics so I can wash the damn thing. I believe there was one gaming keyboard that worked this way (custom overlays) and Logitech has one keyboard they claim is washable, but IIRC the keys are mushy. No thanks.

lleolin 7y ago

I've wanted a left-side number pad for a long time. I've contended that (for right-handed people) having a number pad on the right is poor ergonomics. If I centered such a keyboard in front of me, then the number pad would be in the way of my mouse. So I end up offsetting the keyboard several inches to the left, which causes me to have to position my arms awkwardly in order to reach the letters. I ended up using keyboards with no number pads at all (in my case a Leopold FC660C).

skybrian 7y ago
Maybe buy a separate number pad? Looks like they are $30 to $40 or so.
leipert 7y ago
I don’t have too much trouble with this just yet. But the next keyboard will be without a num block, but I will add a https://www.ipv6buddy.com/ https://www.ipv6buddy.com/ to the right of my mouse for all my hex and up address needs. (Not affiliated, just a fan)
steverb 7y ago
That was one of the things I liked about the MS Sculpt Keyboard, the numpad is its own separate device. You can put it wherever you want it.

frostburg 7y ago

I find building keyboards very relaxing (here is my work so far: https://ereign.is/objects/ https://ereign.is/objects/). The split orthos are very usable and comfortable after a few hours of acclimatization (I mostly use a commercial Topre board for now, I should finish designing QMK layouts that better serve my needs).

LeftHandPath 7y ago
Those look badass! Reminds me of some of the ergo keyboards that I looked at in the past... only a lot more stylish. The first one [0] reminds me of an old Learjet or Falcon 10 cockpit with the lights lit up (see [1]). I really love the look of the wires you chose, as well, with the knurled connector housing and heavy-duty threading for the cords. The Nyquist Rev. 2.1 [2] looks like its fresh off the Nostromo. Do you do your own CNC/laser engraving or are the keys OTS? [0]: https://ereign.is/objects/1.jpg https://ereign.is/objects/1.jpg [1]: http://d16bsf97ryvc45.cloudfront.net/Media/2012/07/F10-sn176-Cockpit-268.jpg http://d16bsf97ryvc45.cloudfront.net/Media/2012/07/F10-sn176... [2]: https://ereign.is/objects/3.jpg https://ereign.is/objects/3.jpg
- frostburg 7y ago
  The keycaps are all from group buys, nothing custom; unfortunately I don't have the equipment to make them (there is no practical way to do double-shot injection molding on a small scale, but dye sublimation on blanks could be possible). I went for a PCB with underglow leds for the "space cadet" replica keycaps because unlike the others shining a in-switch led thru them wouldn't have looked interesting.

overcast 7y ago

What amazes me is the amount of money dumped into standard rectangular keyboards, with zero ergonomics.

memn0nis 7y ago

Are mechanical keyboards that much "better" (I know this is subjective) than normal laptop keyboards (I have a macbook pro). I'm considering buying one but they are quite expensive...

hesdeadjim 7y ago
It’s completely and totally subjective. I don’t personally enjoy them as I find them too elevated and uncomfortable. Regardless, I enjoy looking at the keyboards people build over on /r/mechanicalkeyboards I’d add that subjective also applies to ergonomics. I recognize that the Ergo series is borderline life changing for some people, but I greatly prefer the Apple keyboards and their extremely low profile. To each their own.
npo9 7y ago
It depends. Mechanical keyboards last for about a decade, probably more. During which time I’ll be at my main computer and typing about 20,000hours. So using a mechanical keyboard less than a penny an hour. So yeah, if something makes my time a little more comfortable I’d consider it worth that cost.
- 2rsf 7y ago
  that doesn't answer the original question of > Are mechanical keyboards that much "better"
  - npo9 7y ago
    It tries to quantify how much better a mechanical keyboard needs to be before it is worth it, which is not much.
jhrkjlhwer 7y ago
That's a pretty low bar. Even a cheap dome keyboard is much better than a laptop keyboard. And you can get a mechanical keyboard for less than $100, if you don't want RGB and fancy features.
7y ago

Wistar 7y ago

I did just that. I hired Darrell Fandrich to build it. He started with a 5'10" case and soundboard built in Guangzhou, China but discarded the soundboard. We chose a scale design by Lothar Schell and a Holy Grail stringing scale by Fandrich with strings custom wound for the scale by Mapes in Kentucky. The stringing scale included special Mapes aluminum strings that cover the first six notes above the point where the overstring section begins—these are designed to better blend the the overstring transition which can otherwise be notchy. A custom soundboard was crafted in Boston from hand-picked straight-grain Siberian spruce and milled to a diaphragmatic shape that mimics Steinway soundboards where the center is about half an inch thick but, to enhance liveness and sustain power, tapers down to about 1/4 inch at the edges where it meets the case. A custom Renner action was added and outfitted with Abel Royal Blue grand hammers. Key weighting and fine voicing conducted in stages over the course of several months finished it off. That was in 1998-99 and it is still the best keyboard I have ever used.

zenexer 7y ago
This article is about computer keyboards, not musical keyboards. What you’ve posted doesn’t make sense in the context of this topic.
- Wistar 7y ago
  Oh. It just said "keyboard you want." My mistake.
  - zenexer 7y ago
    Did you click it? You’re supposed to click the link to view the article before commenting. There’s a very clear picture of the keyboard above-the-fold.
    - Wistar 7y ago
      I was championing keyboard diversity.

zenexer 7y ago

A number of commenters seem to be confused. This link is about computer keyboards, not musical keyboards, as is immediately evident when viewing the link. Please at least click the link before you comment on a Hacker News post.

m0zg 7y ago

IMO the most reasonable upgrade for 99.999% of "normal" people is just a plain $90 mechanical keyboard with Cherry switches. Any advantages of all this other stuff are pretty incremental unless you are really spending your days typing non-stop, which I'd wager is rare among software engineers.

numlock86 7y ago

> If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead Lucky me. I can just go into most stores and pick up a Cherry Board MX 3.0 with MX Black. :)

co_dh 7y ago

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=535590071686&spm=a2141.7631565.1.2_1 https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=535590071686... This(pro) is what I am using now. Cheaper than ergodox ez but more beautiful. You may need compile QMK yourself because it is flipped as compare to EZ

Symbiote 7y ago
I'm not sure why this is downvoted, except perhaps because you linked to the mobile site. Here's the normal site: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=535590071686 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=535590071686 (site is in Chinese. This is an open-source design, so there's no problem that a Chinese manufacturer is producing it.)
- co_dh 7y ago
  Thank you.

esotericsean 7y ago

I love the idea of a mechanical keyboard (and I would love to build one), but I hate the thick keys and travel distance of each key press (I'm used to the thing keys on my MacBook Pro). Are there any mechanical switches that are low-travel?

joatmon-snoo 7y ago
https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-low-profile/mx-low-profile-red.html https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-low-profile/mx-low-profile-red...
dahx4Eev 7y ago
Kailh low profile key switches
Tokiin 7y ago
If you want to test the waters instead of going with a full build at the start, pre-built ones are starting to pop up from popular brands, ex. https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/peripheral/keyboards/sk630/ https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/peripheral/keyboards/sk...

drdeadringer 7y ago

For many years, bordering on a decade, I have entertained the idea of purchasing a keyboard from a particular Maker who partakes [now partook?] in creating gothic, retro, and similar-style keyboards to the tune of several thousand USD. I have since not dipped in, but the marbles roll around in my mind. To me, such purchase opportunities inspire both money-spending as well as creative inspirations.

ansible 7y ago

Having the mouse in the right side of the keyboard puts it too far away. My solution is to just mouse left-handed. As a right handed person, this does take some training, but it had been worth it in the long run. That, plus an ergonomic keyboard solved most of my problems.

leome 7y ago

Or hire someone do it for you :)