26 ms·
An update on YC China
- celticninja 7y agoToo much PRC input perhaps?
- mdorazio 7y agoGiven the timing, I have a really hard time believing some variant of this isn't at play here.
- ruchir_21hj 7y agowhat is PRC?
- ofcrpls 7y agoPeople's Republic of China
- big_chungus 7y agoIt's the technical name for China. Personally I don't use it; China is not a "people's republic".
- dmix 7y agoIt look's like every other people's republic. I don't see why China is different.
- big_chungus 7y agoExactly. I think the term, "people's republic" is connotative of the worst kind of brutal socialist/communist autocracy.
- celticninja 7y agoYeah, if you have to name yourself 'peoples republic' or 'democratic republic', you can be sure that the so named entityfits neither description.
- scarmig 7y agoTechnically, there are two governments that claim to be China: the People's Republic of China, and the Republic of China. Both claim to rule Taiwan and mainland China. "China", then, is underspecified, because no one means to claim that the ROC is running concentration camps.
- larnmar 7y agoWe used to just say “Red China”.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- thiscatis 7y agoVery disappointing and probably the least honest and transparant update from YC.
- paulddraper 7y agoWhat's dishonest/opaque about this? YC is generally Bay Area-only, and after consideration they decided to stick with that.
- brink 7y agoThere's no real reason why given. It seems that HN's "No politics" policy flows over to their blog updates as well.
- dang 7y agoHN doesn't have a no politics policy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20political%20overlap&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... Edit: maybe I should add that we do moderate posts that are just political, i.e. don't have an intellectually curious angle, as well as threads that depart from the path of curious discussion and sink into flames.
- paulddraper 7y agoYou do understand that YC China would have been an enormous change, right? They barely started doing NYC this year. The default answer is simply "no"/"not right now"; not a ton of explanation required.
- capableweb 7y agoWhile "As we worked to establish YC China, we had a change in leadership. With this, our strategy changed back " does give 50% of the answer as to "why", I'd be great to hear from otherwise transparent YC about why the strategy changed and why it didn't work out.
- xmly 7y agoTrump
- localcrisis 7y agowould be good to hear what they plan on doing instead. YC China was a bet at doing something different. With that gone—and idk if it should have stayed or gone.. sometimes experiments fail—what is YCs plan? Invite 200, 300, 500, 20,000 companies to SF? maybe it is the best option, but also maybe not the best thing to do. YC Seems stuck in an innovator's dilemma. Reminds me of Apple under Tim Cook. Keeping a good thing going, but nothing innovative.
- writimov 7y agoYC has been trying a bunch of things new to them. Not sure how they are working out yet: * Supporting more hardware specific companies. * Supporting more biomed device tech companies. * Scaling online with startup school. * Trying to scale the number of companies who get accepted into the program. There is still a lot to figure out in the 'nurture small/young companies' space. That said, each country has its own unique challenges.
- tomnipotent 7y ago> does give 50% of the answer How could you possibly know it's only 50%? Please, HN, stop with all of the ridiculous guessing of motives with nothing to back it up.
- capableweb 7y agoDon't take it so literal. Point being, the "why" doesn't seem fully covered.
- xmly 7y agoUS will have a financial war with China soon. So it is wise to cut the tie early.
- jessewmc 7y agoStrange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?
- CharlesColeman 7y ago> Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. Not so strange to me. Don't companies usually come up with inoffensive BS for public statements like this? > Instead its... the new guy is busy? Maybe he wanted to spend more time with his family, too.
- iooi 7y agoThey probably have a significant investment from Chinese LPs. It could put those investors in a very awkward situation if YC was more explicit with their statement -- we've all seen how childishly defensive the Chinese government can get.
- criddell 7y agoThat money isn't that important. History isn't going to look back and think that YCombinator should have done more to look out for the wealth Chinese investors.
- dumbfoundded 7y agobut dude, think of the shareholder value /s
- killface 7y agowith how much love VCs get here, i'm pretty sure that's an accurate sentiment.
- larnmar 7y agoSo what’s the worst thing that can happen? They pull their money out? I’d have thought YC, given their history, wouldn’t have any trouble raising money.
- ycombonator 7y agoThe CCP figured there is not much to gain from IP theft because all companies were local so no traction.
- errantspark 7y agoI was hoping for a denouncement of China's actions in Hong Kong. One can dream.
- ijiiijji1 7y agoA three-fer would denounce: 0. Violence-for-violence's sake and property destruction, harming the pro-democracy cause and carrying water for PRC, whereas nonviolent disobedience would maintain political capital 1. HK police incidents of excessive force: shootings, blindings, beatings and more 2. Pro-PRC gangs beating people at random and HK police condoning it
- ngcc_hk 7y agoNo need. Even as a hongkonger. Support thanks but normal business sense — that comes the point. I find all these world venture is a bit naive. It is not going to pay in the long term. If want to, why not Russia. At least you are aware and have alarm bell rang.
- loceng 7y agoIs MiraclePlus funded by or supported directly or indirectly by YC? Does YC have a stake?
- godelski 7y agoI found two things. Business Insider (via Reuters) [0] suggests no. I also found a Chinese post, but I can't read this so maybe someone else can[1] [0] https://www.insider.com/silicon-valley-startup-incubator-y-combinator-closing-china-unit-2019-11 https://www.insider.com/silicon-valley-startup-incubator-y-c... [1] https://www.sohu.com/a/351116732_550313 https://www.sohu.com/a/351116732_550313
- nmfisher 7y agoThe Sohu link doesn't talk about the link between YC and Miracle Plus, it's just a brief bio about Qi Lu (he was speaking at that Tsinghua event).
- ThrowAwayPRC 7y agoI'm really glad YC is taking a clear stand against China. I also understand why they are not further ruffling any feathers by phrasing their "update" as such. It is also a bit disappointing from a patriotic standpoint that the general public reaction to this update is that people are _sad_ YC is withdrawing. Given how much we have all benefited from our nation's world-class innovation economy here, we should at least pay the piper.
- quotz 7y agoI mean theres no place for western companies in China as seen times and times again. This literally happens all the time
- xmly 7y agoGM, Tesla and Apple are making tons of money in China now. Even Google and Facebook are making over hundreds of millions of ads money each year from China. Yes, Google and Facebook still have branches in China and make a lot of money.
- adventured 7y agoUnlike GM, Tesla and Apple, Facebook is not making money by operating in the Chinese market. Facebook is making money from Chinese advertisers via resellers. It's Chinese capital being exported to Facebook outside of the country, for a service operating entirely outside of China. Equivalent to an advertiser in China going through a local ad broker that works with the NY Times, to place an ad in the NY Times in a paper sold in NYC.
- undefined3840 7y agoAirBNB is though if their operation there is anything less than a constant fire I would be surprised.
- echan00 7y agoThat's okay. Every great organization needs to experiment, and many of those experiments will not work out.
- justinzollars 7y agoI imagined this was going to happen. Lately PG has been more vocal on twitter regarding Human Rights issues in China. I understand this is a very difficult decision. I'm not sure if its right or wrong. From the perspective of Human Rights its probably right, but from the perspective of investment its difficult considering China's growth prospects. I'm torn on the China issue and I personally hope our two countries can work out their differences in a constructive way.
- Loughla 7y agoAs inflammatory as my last statement is going to seem, it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to bait you - But how does >investment Versus >Human Rights Equal >I'm torn on the China issue Do your morals and conscience have a price tag?
- ddevault 7y agoThis has got to be satire. >I understand this is a very difficult decision. I'm not sure if its right or wrong. From the perspective of Human Rights its probably right, but from the perspective of investment its difficult considering China's growth prospects. I can't believe a human being would actually write this. The level of cognitive dissonance would be off the charts.
- buboard 7y agoLets not bash on one person when the worlds largest companies have been fine doing business with china for decades, knowing the HR situation. There was always the hope that growth would help improving the HR situation ( which may be what OP is referring to) , but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards with Xi
- blotter_paper 7y agoHere's an attempt at interpretting it graciously: if China's economy grows, more Chinese people may be lifted out of poverty. This is obviously beneficial to their lives directly, but could also result in political shifts as the rising middle class becomes more of a stakeholder in society. More developed countries can also afford to have more environmentally friendly laws. There are a bunch of potential benefits to China and the rest of the world that could result from continued growth. Sacrificing these benefits to bring attention to human rights might actually be harmful in the long run by a wide range of metrics, and whether it's desirable to do so might depend on which metrics you value more and how you typically respond to trolley problems.
- pkamb 7y ago"MiraclePlus" brings up only "Corn And Callus Dissolving Serum" on the Google SERP.
- RocketSyntax 7y ago"[We are canning YC China because of the macro political environment]."
- pastor_elm 7y agowould love a postmortem on the whole attempt and the real difficulties that came about.
- Mizza 7y agoLaunching in China was a stupid, shamelessly greedy and ultimately embarrassing decision to begin with, but it's good that they've changed course. To those who have been living under a rock for the past thirty years: The PRC is a genocidal, expansionist ethnostate that tortures and kills those it deems enemies, which is everybody who isn't ethnically Han and supportive of the leader of the Communist Party. YC knew this when it opened an office there. My real question is - now that you've invited them in and shown them around, will they create a state-owned YCombinator of their own? It'll be interesting to see how elite state-owned venture capital will work.
- ipsa 7y ago> how elite state-owned venture capital will work Perhaps something like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel https://www.darpa.mil/work-with-us/commitment-to-small-businesses https://www.darpa.mil/work-with-us/commitment-to-small-busin... https://arsenalgrowth.com/ https://arsenalgrowth.com/ https://www.welcomeurope.com/european-subsidies-sector-Innovation.html https://www.welcomeurope.com/european-subsidies-sector-Innov...
- SandersAK 7y agoPersonally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time. Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.
- yourbandsucks 7y agoChinese people are people too, you know.
- ngcc_hk 7y agoBut chinese government is not a government of the people, by the people and for the people. North Korean is also human too. So is those in nazi Germany für Ibm.
- yourbandsucks 7y agoNazis are not in fact people for the purposes of discussion. They are movie extras who get shot as fast as possible. You really had to go full Godwin dehumanization on a billion people right away?
- throwaway2048 7y agoThe nazi regime is very much comparable to the Chinese communist party in methods and death toll, about the only thing they don't measure up on is overt military aggression. Why do you dismiss any comparisons with the Nazis out of hand? Seems like an exceptionally poor way to learn from history.
- tomnipotent 7y ago> comparisons with the Nazis out of hand Because they're generally silly hyperbole, just like this example. If you put China in the same tier as Nazi Germany, you're missing the forest for the trees.
- kbumsik 7y agoDid some people in the comments forget what happens to Blizzard? It would be better not having a branch in China unless they are 100% sure they can be free from any political issues around China, and we actually don't need to hear "why" from YC.
- throw_m239339 7y ago> unless they are 100% sure they can be free from any political issues around China Which they can't. There is a price to pay when doing business with/in a bloody dictatorship.
- shasheene 7y agoIt suprises me that intelligent, reasonable people like Andrew Ng and Sam Altman were willing to help develop and invest in the Chinese Communist Party's AI/ML capabilities helping to create an authoritarian surveillance state used to repress minorities (Uighers, Tibetans, Falun Gong) on a scale not seen since Adolf Hitler. The CCP and private companies are hand-in-glove. The risks of working with state-owned enterprises are clear. The risks of working with private companies are are also great with "party cells" officially embedded into at least half of private companies. Fortunately for the free world, China faces massive structural issues to growth over the next 40 years, which the CCP is unable or unwilling to deal with. I highly recommend [1] and [2] to understand the future of the brutal Chinese dictatorship. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/17/world/asia/china-population-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/17/world/asia/ch... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AvNT3vyzr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AvNT3vyzr0 EDIT: Instead of down voting, please articulate why you disagree.
- doublekill 7y agoDid not downvote, I hate all views equally. Perhaps it is the enormous cognitive dissonance. Western companies also take military funding and their surveillance systems were always better and more invasive. The US is using statutes for national security interests to ban Chinese companies for contributing to alledged human rights abuses. Meanwhile we have documented human rights abuses in the West, and a US that does not shy away to cover a trade war and skewed commercial motives with anti-China propaganda. US companies and agencies surveil outside the US. Capitalism-commercialization gave our rights to the likes of Zuckerberg and Amazon, who will turn your door bell into a police camera. The Godwin was also a tad unnecessary. Perhaps you are a bit caught up in the heat of the moment. The propaganda machine is definately turning up the heat, so I do not blame you. Try to pose your argument without claiming the moral highground of the "free world". It is never fortunate that an entire country and its people struggles. Accusing Ng and Altman of helping build a fascist surveillance state is a nasty accusation, which I feel you are not allowed to make. Remember when the US had concentration camps for Japanese-Americans? Countries can change even without pressure or backlash (the US did not face any). Can you think of a modern group of people in the US being secluded from participation, facing state racism, and being locked away in ghettos, with no hope of social movement? Would China be justified in boycotting or sanctioning US companies for contributing to ICE, Guantanamo bay, or police violence, or Flynt's water, or Trump's racism? Freedom of religion gave the US scientology and TV pastors and schools preaching creationism. It gave Europe extremist Salafism and terrorist attacks and people using the Bible to go after immigrants. You have to see China in that context: they see religion as a dangerous memetic virus to indoctronate youthful people into believing something not of their own choice. Countries have a right to make their own laws and their own tactics for improvement and combating extremism. Edit: you may also receive downvotes from people who hate to hear negative stuff on China, or are paid 50 cents to do so.
- bigpumpkin 7y agoMiraclePlus offers $200,000 for 5%, is the OG YCombinator gonna match that?
- colechristensen 7y agoI would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.
- yumraj 7y agoWhile I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one. The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.
- learc83 7y ago>Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable >While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political If you agree that doing business with a fascist state is deplorable, it doesn't stop being deplorable just because you're a private company.
- colechristensen 7y agoThat is exactly the problem. Saving face. Causing PRC to lose face is the only way to stop them outside a war which nobody wants. If American companies started cutting ties and explicitly calling out their behavior it would make a real difference.
- skybrian 7y ago1. PRC loses face. 2. ??? (Does not include war.) 3. New Chinese government takes control. I don't think anyone knows how to do what you want. Just because a problem is important doesn't mean it has a solution.
- tossAfterUsing 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ilamont 7y agoAs others have noted, the announcement does not reveal the thinking that went into this decision. But certainly pg and other principals are aware of what's happening in the People's Republic of China under the Xi regime. pg retweeted the following news items about China recently: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1195728248040087552 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1195728248040087552 The New York Times @nytimes Nov 16 China has detained up to a million Muslims, a campaign it calls a benevolent and routine effort against the pull of extremism. But 403 pages of Communist Party documents we obtained reveal how officials plotted to carry out a ruthless, coercive clampdown. https://twitter.com/CoveringDelta/status/1196491222765965314 https://twitter.com/CoveringDelta/status/1196491222765965314 Demetri Kofinas @CoveringDelta Nov 18 We've known for years that governments are interested in developing bioweapons that target specific populations. What I didn't know until this week's episode are the lengths to which the CCP has reportedly gone to obtain the genomic data needed to do it. https://twitter.com/nathanattrill/status/1192670115017310208 https://twitter.com/nathanattrill/status/1192670115017310208 Nathan Attrill 周雷森 @nathanattrill Nov 8 In China, it’s possible to pre-book an organ transplant, something that would be impossible under a voluntary donor system – raising suspicions of widespread organ harvesting.
- noparity 7y agoThis is great, brave decision by YC.
- Veedrac 7y agoThe response to this is unfortunate. Consider the run-on effects it will have on other companies that the primary response to YC pulling out of China is negativity. Requiring companies to stake everything on an action like this only serves to discourage any of them from acting. YC did the right thing here, the comments should reflect that.
- Aeolun 7y agoMaybe it’s a bit like the HK extradition bill retraction. Too little, and too late.
- anonygler 7y agoEven YC got screwed by China. This is an intentional pattern: Lure US money and then use backroom dealings to coordinate an outright theft.
- tossAfterUsing 7y agosource?
- skunkpocalypse 7y agotroll?
- ausjke 7y agoSo YC's own China-version startup effort flopped basically. It's at an awkward time per se, nobody wants to get serious business started now at current climate, which could be the beginning of a sea change policy from what has been here for the last 3 decades between US and China. Techstars etc have lots of offices in US and Europe, how about YC expanding to NY, Boston, Austin first? That will help US economy and foster some local startup ecosystem as well.
- zjoq9ka23rau 7y agoI'm a Chinese living in mainland China. My old account was suspended because I told the truth about China Communist Party(CCP) below HK event thread (Qi and his team censored it?). I believe you Americans see the essence of CCP from the NBA/South Park/HK event. CCP controls everything in China and they are evil. Doing business in China is helping the dying CCP. So I'm glad to see that YC pull back 'YC China'. We old hundred names welcome you back to China when CCP is dead. Thanks.
- linyu0219 7y agoYour stupid name implies that you are a troll. Pls speak mandarin in front of protesters to support them, but I'm afraid they won't give you the chance to finish a sentence
- new_realist 7y agoI applaud this move. Given the recent history of actions by the Chinese government, investment in China is not ethical.
- systemdtrigger 7y agoI was wondering why one of the fastest upvoted articles on HN, ever, was on second page. Now i know, and of course. YC , like other tech firms want to keep their business interest in China come to fruition. Surely they must account for too many anti-votes coming from a single region?
- dang 7y agoNot sure what we're being accused of here. To rattle off some things in the general vicinity: we didn't touch this story, other than to remove the flamewar penalty that HN's software put on it. That's not because the software got it wrong—it got it right. But we moderate HN less, not more, when YC or a YC-funded startup is involved: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20moderate%20less%20not%20more%20yc&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... Re "want to keep their business interest in China come to fruition"—ending one's business interest in China is a strange way to do that. How devious they must be!
- the_resistance2 7y agoThis will allow HN to be banned
- archibaldJ 7y agoOP here (no affiliation with YC in anyway), posted the link because was surprised it wasn't already on HN. I first got to know about it on WeChat actually. There was an announcement from the official WeChat account of YC China in regard to the split-up (link: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw), though the announcement took a much more positive and exciting tone than its English counterpart. The announcement from YC China talked a lot about 本土化 (which is not to be confused with sinicisation （汉化））。 As someone who has moved back to China recently, I noticed that 本土化 is actually a really big thing in China and it basically means localisation on steroid to become more similar to other products/services in China in every aspect (including HR, internal operations, etc). Anyway I'm fascinated by all the comments here, none of which discussed the cultural and sociopolitical differences between that of the west and that of China, which I believe is one of the main factors that have enabled the disintegration between YC and YC China. The Chinese government is one thing. But "the Chinese way" is another thing. And "the Chinese way" actually underlines how the Chinese society works and how the Chinese government functions. To understand "the Chinese way", one has to try to emulate a generalisation of how a Chinese person thinks and acts in this day and age after all these revolutions and wars and pandemonium that have shaped the land and the way people interpret things and interact with one another. Without great knowledge in the modern Chinese history and a good grasp of the contemporary Chinese language and culture (from a none-bias perspective as much as possible), it's extremely difficult to form a proper mental representation of "the Chinese way". The thing is not many Chinese people are aware of this too (since they are already operating under "the Chinese way", emulating it would be like running a meta-circular interpreter - not impossible just highly difficult for an average person). Perhaps this is why people (Chinese and none-Chinese) often resort to understanding China through the lens of the media (i.e. state-sponsored or company-sponsored) and that is akin to looking at a 2d projection of a higher dimension object.
- frozenport 7y agoSo what exactly is the Chinese Way other than something Westerners can't grasp?
- spectramax 7y ago> The Chinese government is one thing. But "the Chinese way" is another thing. And "the Chinese way" actually underlines how the Chinese society works and how the Chinese government functions. "The Chinese Way" is a cop out, it points out the cultural differences between the West and China, but that does not change the fundamentals of political ideologies. Fascist and authoritarian regimes, all, justify their actions through the proxy of cultural differences. It is not right to shut down discussion about political climates by reducing it to a non-negotiable argument, i.e. the other party does not understand "The Chinese Way" or they will never know the history of China. There are plenty of non-Chinese historians arounds the world who have studied China deeply, academically and by experience such as expats including myself who have spent significant time in China. We know "The Chinese Way". > The Chinese government is one thing. No, that's the elephant in the room here, don't be so quick to dismiss it. Ask yourself this - "Would I feel threatened to criticize the Chinese government publicly while I am in China?" If the answer is yes, you either A) Took allegiance to the Chinese nationalism B) or afraid to speak out. If it is B, then it is time to move out of China before it is too late.
- m0zg 7y agoThat's to be expected. IMO we should decouple and diversify as quickly as we can. It took Trump to highlight that fact, which tells me the establishment was OK with selling out US of A for a buck as quickly as the Chinese would buy it, sweatshops and concentration camps notwithstanding. It's not like they didn't know. It's just that the right bureaucratic wheels were greased with money at the right times by those who stood to gain from it all.
- thesausageking 7y agoInteresting that Qi Lu just raised $55m for his "MiraclePlus" last week: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1792939/000179293919000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1792939/000179293919... I wonder Qi just decided to just go his own way.
- unityByFreedom 7y ago> I wonder Qi just decided to just go his own way. If that's the case, let him say so.
- northfoxz 7y agoMy observation is that Qi used the YC brand to help launch his MiraclePlus. After that they part ways. The first batch of startups are very different from regular YC companies. https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KdfV4hF4qz8Ti1XL0i_S3A https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KdfV4hF4qz8Ti1XL0i_S3A
- avocado4 7y agoSo form a partnership with US firm, extract IP and know-how, launch a clone in China, and part ways. Sounds like a standard approach.
- eternalban 7y agoOh, and the Western "chumps" got "nothing". Is that the story line you are selling here?
- nightsd01 7y agoChina’s best tech is mostly just stolen American tech so I can understand why they’d want to focus on US startups.
- throwaway423342 7y agoThis is true 5 years ago. Things have changed.
- avocado4 7y agoPeople keep saying that, but I don't really buy it. Scanning barcodes isn't really necessary when you have everybody with a credit card and every local merchant accepts NFC payment. Everybody using crappy unencrypted JS-based WeChat mini-programs instead of an app ecosystem is not an innovation but rather a way to lock and monitor the entire population with no privacy. Same goes for police-state facial recognition.
- tikkabhuna 7y ago> Scanning barcodes isn't really necessary when you have everybody with a credit card and every local merchant accepts NFC payment. The QR codes are quite cool in that anyone with a printer can print them out. I can't pay my friends with my contactless credit card in the same way I can pay a merchant. Its a different approach with different pros and cons.
- avocado4 7y agoYou can just venmo your friends.
- nafizh 7y agoRegardless of the reason YC is putting out, it doesn’t look good to have business as usual while mass genocide of a minority is going on nearby.
- jakobmi 7y agoFor better or worse, it sounds a lot like Qi screwed YC here. Raising 55mn USD, leveraging the YC brand, and keeping all of the profits and upside to himself in China. On a fairer note, I think YC got to ask: what unfair advantage do we have in this country? Most of their advantages are network effects in SV and brand-awareness in the western world. Their advantages in the US are MUCH higher than in China, where you'd have to build much from scratch, rebuild the investors' and founders' networks. If Qi was supposed to bring all this -- which he undoubtedly had as ex-COO of Baidu -- why would he need YC at all? I'm not going into the details of his personality or whether this is a gentleman's move or are the highest standards of honesty and integrity. You shall make your own opinion about Chinese business. That to say, all of this -- just like any other comment here obviously -- is a hypothesis and nothing less. So take each comment with a huge grain of salt :). Cheers
- jorgezaccaro 7y agoYou got it right. I read the announcement in Chinese on WeChat before any reports were available in English, and had to check other sources to make sure I was not misreading the facts. I attended all YC events in Beijing (May 2018, May 2019, June 2019) and certainly noticed some changes in marketing messages and a declining role of US partners, but never expected this sudden "rebranding" to happen. After leveraging the YC brand to gather resources and attract applicants, this just feels like a shameless takeover.
- jakobmi 7y ago@YC Leadership: The Chinese Article [1] reads synonymously to: YC China was RENAMED, not aborted. That's highly different from your English statement. LOL: even the website ycchina.co redirects to MiraclePlus. http://www.ycchina.com/ http://www.ycchina.com/ [1] https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw
- yorwba 7y agoI don't think there's any contradiction between the two statements. Y Combinator stops their involvement in YC China, turning it into a separate entity. YC China gets renamed MiraclePlus. The announcement by YC emphasizes the separation from YC China, the announcement by MiraclePlus emphasizes the continuity with YC China.
- jakobmi 7y ago@YC Leadership: The Chinese Article [1] reads synonymously to: YC China was RENAMED, not aborted. That's highly different from your English statement. LOL: even the website ycchina.com redirects to MiraclePlus. http://www.ycchina.com/ http://www.ycchina.com/ They even have the YC logo on their website and claim to have funded Airbnb, Dropbox etc. Be careful to read their whole website. This whole website of MiracleMinus is extremely dishonest. I would be very careful not to be connected too much to dishonest and lack-of-integrity people like Qi. [1] https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw
- bigpumpkin 7y ago"they even have the YC logo on their website and claim to have funded Airbnb, Dropbox etc. " YC的创业方法论培养了大量例如Airbnb，Stripe, Dropbox等的明星企业。经过了14年的实战考验，充分证明了其有效性。在中国，我们将YC创业方法论落实到本地企业中，用来服务我们的初创公司。 " YC's entrepreneurial methodology has produced a number of star companies such as Airbnb, Stripe, Dropbox and more. After 14 years of practical tests, it has fully proved its effectiveness. In China, we implement the YC entrepreneurial methodology into local companies to serve our startups."
- paganel 7y agoThat's pretty disappointing, so they're still actively using the YC name and the YC brand, I recon with YC's approval. I had hoped that after recent Hong Kong videos like this one [1] (not to mention the whole Uighur near-tragedy) any sane company which cherishes some sort of values would have gotten out of China as soon as possible. It seems that in this particular case YC is chasing the local maximum of getting money in the short-run, forgetting about the long-term consequences of what the Chinese government is now doing. [1] https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3819595 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3819595
- mac01021 7y agoCompanies don't cherish values unless their customers do. And most people don't know/understand/care what's going on in HK or Xinjiang.
- iamaelephant 7y agoFuck China
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- chj 7y agoNot surprised. You can't even visit HN from China without using VPN. I guess there must be some pressure not revealed in the announcement.
- zkid18 7y agoI visited Eric Migicovsky’s presentation in Hong Kong a year ago dedicated to YC China. He is a founder of Pebble, YC partner, and helped Qi Lu a lot in establishing YC China. Although China VC investments have almost surpassed US, there were only three projects from Great China (Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan) in YC. They wanted to find out how they can bring more local talents to SV. Unfortunately, it seems they haven’t succeeded much. I think the main reason is that Chinese entrepreneurs rarely want to target the international market. They don’t really know much about it, they don’t have the network and they have a huge domestic market, where they feel much more convenient. The state of early-stage investment is different in China, compare to US or Europe. You won’t find here many events or meetups where angles or early-stage VC connected with entrepreneurs. They don’t actually like sharing events of that kind. For example, the largest community of such kind in Shanghai is founded by non-Chinese. The only way to reach a well-known VC fund is your network. A warm introduction helps multiples your chances for fundraising dramatically. Probably YC failed with establishing a good network among early-stage VC funds in China, and moreover, they don’t have a strong brand there. The Chinese market is not mature enough. Maybe in US you eager to make a blue ocean project, but in China entrepreneurs mostly driven by higher returns. China is all about scale - even a bad product may have a huge IRR. However, never underestimate the local competitors. If the company managed to get a series A fundraising and got coverage in media most probably they surpassed 30-40 completely identical companies. Such tight competition brings some innovative ideas - WeChat, Doyin, VipKid. The western world can study these cases. Unfortunately, there's been mostly negative coverage in media about China nowadays. I worked in Chinese startups and in Chinese academia. People are bright, high-skilled, and motivated. There are great visioners like Allen Zhang or Frank Wong. Only a few entrepreneurs take advantage of CCP regulations. Many of them claim that the party negatively affect the investment and business climate in the country.
- archibaldJ 7y agoThanks for the intel! This is super great to know. It definitely helped to put things into more perspective. So kudos for that! I saw an interview with Qi the other day (back when it was still YC China) and Qi mentioned about funding ambitious start-ups that play the long game and are in early stage but have little or no connections in China which mean these start-ups would otherwise be ignored by Chinese investors. Do you think Qi's MiraclePlus will continue to do that in the spirit of YC? I saw an article coverage of YC China's last demoday (17 Nov) and noticed that most start-ups graduated this year have had their angel rounds before entering YC China, which could be due to the reason as you've described - YC China failing to establish a good network among early-stage VC funds in China, thus looking out more for post-angel companies. Or it could also be because there were just too few aspiring early-stage start-ups in China. Perhaps funding early-stage start-ups in China imposes a much higher risk than say in the Valley. Anyway do you think it would be possible for someone who has okay track record but no direct connections with angels and VCs in China to get their early-stage start-up angel-funded? Will it change a thing if it is an early stage with MVP that has thousands of active users? What about an early stage in artsy-style (i.e. as a small self-publishing media company related to the tech/product being developed) with a self-media WeChat/Weibo account that has tens of thousands of visitors every week? I'm one of those people that ended up moving back to China and looking to start a blue ocean project here. The early-stage investment landscape in China really is not looking good right now, just wondering how that will change over the next few years (especially in China where things are so fast-paced!) So would also love your opinions on that! Thanks!
- dbuder 7y agoI think someone thought about what he couldn't say, a man must have a code. One omission instead of a lifetime of mistruths.