20 ms·

My wife is a very pragmatic, smart and pragmatic person. But even then she couldn't be convinced not to get a diamond. She was happy skipping the honeymoon and

My wife is a very pragmatic, smart and pragmatic person. But even then she couldn't be convinced not to get a diamond. She was happy skipping the honeymoon and reducing wedding expenses, but the diamond was a no go. The marketing is too strong.

francisofascii 7y ago
It is probably more cultural pressure rather than marketing. Especially if your mother, aunts, sisters, cousins, are all getting diamonds. It takes a special level of courage to go against the grain. The desire to "fit in" is strong.
throwaway-hn123 7y ago
Or perhaps you and your wife are shallow losers?
andrepd 7y ago
She was happy skipping travelling but not an indistinguishable rock on a ring? The marketing is too strong indeed.
- 1980phipsi 7y ago
  It's the social factor. It takes a special kind of person to not only be happy with the cheaper thing but also to not let people know that it's cheaper. If I bought my wife a cheaper ring, I'd be telling everybody the deal I got. However, that is the opposite of the purpose here...
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    It takes a special kind of person to be happy with a cheap thing they paid way too much for.
    - incongruity 7y ago
      As much as I want to applaud the wit here, the truth is that it really doesn’t - that phenomenon is quintessentially human. We (as a species) will go cognitive miles to avoid actually facing embarrassment or admitting to being fooled. Your thing might not be overpaying for a diamond and it’s unlikely you can see your own instance(s) but I’m sure you have seen it in others on the regular.
    - nyolfen 7y ago
      yes, but we love them all the same
      - papln 7y ago
        Honestly I think the diamond-ring culture is deeply unhealthy - it creates an artificial large resentment event right at the beginning of a commitment, that may destabilize the whole relationship.
        hombre_fatal 7y ago
        I've seen threads on r/relationship_advice and r/TwoXChromosomes where women are desperately distraught over issues having to do with the ring their fiancé/husband bought them, it really does seem like unnecessary hardship. Though, as a man, figuring out your partner's expectations of rings and weddings (and family and children and ...) is part of the dating process. You really shouldn't be blindsided at the engagement phase. I'm reminded of a friend from high school who is got divorced after finding out his wife of two years didn't want and never wanted children. His defense was "it just never came up!"
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bildung 7y ago
  To be fair there is no objective value in travelling either. It's a matter of the specific personality profile that makes a person attracted to one or both or neither of those two modes of consumption.
  - chris_overseas 7y ago
    Well there's evidence that spending money on experiences rather than material goods will make you happier: https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/01/feel-happier-talk-about-experiences-not-things https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/01/feel-happier-talk-a...
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > To be fair there is no objective value in travelling either. Except that the literature has shown that people generally find greater happiness using their money to buy experiences rather than things. From a researcher who wrote (the) book on happiness: > "Shifting from buying stuff to buying experiences, and from spending on yourself to spending on others, can have a dramatic impact on happiness," writes Dunn and her co-author Michael Norton. * https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/happiness-is-buying-experience-not-stuff-29833931.html https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/happiness-is-buying-exp... * https://dunn.psych.ubc.ca https://dunn.psych.ubc.ca * http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/dp/1451665075 http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/d... If, per Aristotle, happiness is the supreme good, it would objectively be better to spend your limited resources on things that are more likely to give it to you. * https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201301/aristotle-happiness https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201301/ar...
    - bildung 7y ago
      > Except that the literature has shown that people generally find greater happiness using their money to buy experiences rather than things. Yes, but a) travelling is not the only way to buy experiences by any means, b) Actually doing/ creating things or experiences is infinitely more rewarding than consumption[1]. Programming, making music, painting, woodworking, cooking, gardening, whatever tickles your fancy. All those studies still only are about buying. [1] for certain personalities.
- klyrs 7y ago
  One way I've seen engagement rings used is as an unspoken pre-prenup. He cheats, she bails and sells the ring. I say "unspoken" but I've heard men and women speak rather frankly about the exchange
  - papln 7y ago
    The ring doesn't have enough resale value for that (and the breakup would spoil the sentimental value of keeping the gem). The incentive isn't compensation for her, it's sunk cost for him.
    - klyrs 7y ago
      Just reporting what I've heard. If he spends $20k and she sells it for $2k, it's still a $2k bonus to her.
renjimen 7y ago
Did you ask her why? It doesn't outwardly seem pragmatic if she's happy to forego expense which provide a service or experience, but not a piece of stone that weighs less than a gram and serves no function other than to display wealth. You'd be better spending that money on a fancy sports car - at least you'd get some fun out of it and a fair resale value.
- slig 7y ago
  > and serves no function other than to display wealth That's the point: signal to peers that you've found a great partner that's willing to throw this kind of money away just for your status.
  - agent008t 7y ago
    Why is signalling that to peers useful or a good thing?
    - ableal 7y ago
      That's been thought out a while ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
    - austhrow743 7y ago
      Makes you feel good.
  - harimau777 7y ago
    I suppose you could accomplish the same thing by just not telling people that it's moissanite.
    - lelima 7y ago
      I think most girls check somehow the ring/diamond value.
      - 7y ago
friendlybus 7y ago
It's difficult to separate out the marketing and social side from her own values and feelings.
- theshadowknows 7y ago
  This is it. My family as it currently stands has two “ring” related stories: Story 1. Both my and my wife’s wedding rings were stolen. The wedding bands were my parents’ and had been in the family for the better part of a hundred years. Though they were extremely simple, plain gold rings with very little value (prob got $50 at a pawn shop if that). We replaced them with similar rings just because we wanted them. Story 2. My wife had a ring that had belonged to her grandmother. It was very ornate and had many kinds of jewel including diamonds and Ruby’s. It was very old school in design but was quite pretty. It was also stolen. I found a similar one for about $14,000 online and offered to buy it for my wife who was devastated at the loss but she refused because it “wasn’t the same” which I of course understood. So there’s more than just the dollar value of the thing is what I’m saying.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Pedantic: it had gems, and was a jewel.
grogenaut 7y ago
My wife is pretty rational but was emotional on this point. I made my position and moral issues with diamonds clear from the second date. she went with the value argument until I hit her with appraisals of her grandmother's ring and industry trends. Wife bought a really pretty sapphire ring from Etsy in the days when it was hand made for around $650. She's very happy with it. It's actually unique.
bane 7y ago
My wife is as well. When we were married we were too poor to buy a diamond, but she always held out the desire for one. Coincidentally, about the time the movie "Blood Diamond" came out (2006) was about the time we were able to afford a decent diamond for her. The movie had a huge impact on her and she spent weeks slipping in between diamond shopping and learning about blood diamonds. While she knew that diamonds are more or less worthless logically, the marketing and social drivers kept it in her head that she needed one - the emotional need was very very high. But the more she read about the human cost the more in conflict the social worth of the things became. Ultimately she decided that the moral cost aligned with her logical mind and that's what finally overrode her emotional desire to get one. She still wanted a sparkly thing and after spending some time looking in to lab grown diamonds, she coudn't get over the basic worthlessness of having an expensive sparkly thing and ended up just getting a modest lab grown moissanite ring -- on sale and with a discount coupon.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  No matter how much we pat ourselves on the back for how rational and smart beings we humans are, the reality is that emotions are running the show much more than logic. Evidence is everywhere - elections, fashion, life, shopping and partner choices and so on. For some people its almost purely emotions, and their lives usually look accordingly. Peer pressure, status symbols etc - all just variations of same emotional loops. Congrats to having such a smart wife.
  - dwoozle 7y ago
    You can get pretty far by modeling humans as 1/2 bacteria and 1/2 beagle.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    Not only are emotions running the show, the emotions are being run by very rational marketers and politicians. Although this may have been less true in past centuries, today being run by emotions means being run by other people.
    - 7y ago
logfromblammo 7y ago
I told the spouse that I am not buying a diamond, ever, nearly 20 years ago, and I haven't. I like synthetic corundums: sapphires and rubies. I understand the synthesis process, which does not involve hired enforcer thugs and criminal exploitation of poor laborers. They are hard enough to resist scratches from most things, and they fracture conchoidally, instead of along 4 perfect planes of cleavage. I'm also good with nephrite and jadeite, which can take a pounding, due to their fibrous crystals and interlocking crystals, respectively. The spouse is not okay with this, and makes only token efforts to hide disdain, but I am stubborn enough to die before giving a single penny to some parasitic international diamond cartel, just for a little bit more refractive index, hardness, and thermal conductivity. We're still not a diamond-free household, though. Some have been inherited from more foolish ancestors. We have also "mined" natural corundums at a touristy dirt-washing operation in western North Carolina. This, of course, led immediately to talk about digging up yellow/brown rough diamonds in Crater of Diamonds (Arkansas) State Park, which immediately informed me that the venomous DeBeers brain-hooks were still set. It just makes me hate the cartel more. I think what irritates me most is that their marketing is so effective. You can show an entire feature film, starring A-list actors, about people getting brutally murdered over the diamond trade, and people will unabashedly say they still want diamond jewelry after watching. Hell, you can watch Marathon Man, and hear, "I'm afraid of dentists now, but I would also like to keep all the diamonds I can eat." They have somehow made diamonds bypass all reason, and link directly to the emotional center of the psyche, with nothing more than decades of persistent advertising.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Get a lab grown diamond. Seriously - hey look great, undercut the cartels and are physically basically the same by any reasonable measure.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    All gemstone diamonds, lab-grown or not, contribute to the collective cultural mind-warp that DeBeers has created. Diamonds do not make you look great. Or, at minimum, they do not make you look better than cheaper, non-cartelized clear gemstones, such as moissanite, cubic zirconia, clear sapphire, clear beryl (goshenite), clear topaz, or even clear quartz. Think about why you would rather have a diamond than any other mineral. Think about why a synthetic carbon allotrope sells at such a large premium over its actual cost of synthesis. They're still riding along on the coattails of DeBeers' 9 decades of unrelenting marketing. If I were getting a pure carbon allotrope jewelry centerpiece, I would very much prefer a single graphene molecule, 235 km long, rolled up into a spiral 1 cm thick--preferably oriented to be most conductive along the axis. Now that would be something worth wearing!
Thaxll 7y ago
Sorry but it doesn't sound like someone pragmatic or smart, diamond is just a rock that's worth x amount of $ nothing more. Someone pragmatic would be happy with "any" kind of ring, when I see those big diamonds it reminds me of those dumb people showing off their ring to friends in TV shows. I'm not sure for other countries but diamond is a very US thing.
wnevets 7y ago
I ran into the same issue. I don't know if was the marketing, just wanted the commitment in dollars before telling everyone she's engaged or the status symbol to show off to other people but it had to be a significant diamond. One of the things that surprised me was man made diamonds at the size and quality she wanted weren't actually cheaper.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Cheaper for them, just not for you. Same as the dug ones, really.
rossdavidh 7y ago
It's not the marketing. It's the fact that it's what biologists call expensive signaling. You are spending money, not on a trip that you both enjoy, but on a ring that really only she enjoys. This is an expensive (therefore hard to fake) signal that you care about how she feels. Now, imagine that the diamond is cheaper. It is no longer an expensive signal. Therefore, although the diamond is the same, it no longer serves the same purpose. So, the cheaper diamonds get, the less demand there is from prospective brides, even if only marginally. This fuels further declines, although that is probably already happening due to better industrial diamonds. This takes time, of course. But that also means it has a lot of momentum. As the price decline continues, and the word of that spreads, it will accelerate.
- standardUser 7y ago
  This reminds me of the popular idea of "love languages". I was always baffled by the idea that some people considered "gifts" to be the most important way to express love. But diamond rings seem to fit this paradigm perfectly.
  - magduf 7y ago
    No, it's different. For instance, gift-giving is a really big deal in Asian cultures. It's not about throwing lots of money around, it's just showing that you're thinking of someone, so gifts can be very small and inexpensive. So gift-giving is certainly a valid love language, just like physical touch, words of affection, etc. Some people just really like to give their loved one small gifts, and some people really like getting them. They can be small clothing items, candies/food, whatever. Diamonds aren't "small gifts"; they're absurdly expensive ornaments. Their primary purpose is so American women can show off to other women how much money their husbands have. It's a bit like having a really expensive luxury car: it's a signal to others to show you're rich, not a way for someone to show affection to another. Edit: About Asian cultures, I'll also add, it's just just lovers. Coworkers will frequently get each other small gifts, or gifts for everyone on the team. This is usually small food items, not anything at all expensive. They might do this if they travel somewhere. I had an Asian (i.e., he had just moved from SE Asia for this job) coworker once give everyone on our team some nice variety of tea, for instance.
0000011111 7y ago
Ya, I read the introduction to book blood diamonds with my wife. It helped us see past the engagement diamond consumer culture.
papln 7y ago
My partner is very smart and pragmatic, and opted for a non-diamond engagement gem. A few years later, an upgrade to a diamond was demanded, on threat of divorce. Peer pressure is amazing on this topic. (It's fun to have this conversation with gender-neutral pronouns.)
- jp555 7y ago
  "an upgrade to a diamond was demanded, on threat of divorce" this sounds like the opposite of a true marriage to me. *But of course I have no idea about your lives and wish you the very best.
- bdamm 7y ago
  Meanwhile, my wife and I have not even worn rings for years, and no plan on the table to get new ones. Initially it was caused because we went through a very rough patch and we both were giving up on the marriage. But that turned around, and now years later the work we've done in our marriage stands on its own, and the rings are only a reminder of the shredded remains of the old marriage. So we don't wear them.
- mlrtime 7y ago
  Sounds like she values a rock over you, don't negotiate with terrorists.
mirimir 7y ago
Huh. I've been married three times, and the issue of diamond rings never came up. But then, I would never have married someone who raised the issue. Edit: In case it's not obvious, the "diamonds for women" thing is blatantly sexist. And it's a flag for other attitudes.
mrtweetyhack 7y ago
Sheep
BubRoss 7y ago
I hope you at least got a diamond with an official certificate containing the picture and signature of the child soldier that found it.
smegger001 7y ago
Mine wanted a Diamond so we compromised and bought it at a pawn shop for a far lower price. Second hand diamonds are cheap because there are so many they aren't worth anything. The whole retail diamond market is all just scam.
t0ughcritic 7y ago
It’s just silly how women get away with this. In a equal world. Imagine if a man said I like the cultural aspect of you staying home and cooking/cleaning while I work and it’s non negotiable.
- austhrow743 7y ago
  The wrong part of that inequality is the backlash that man would receive. Ideal world, both of them feel free to express their wants clearly and early. Equality in being shamed for wants is a bad equality.
sytelus 7y ago
I've recommended a test called "canoe test" for figuring out compatibility with your future partner. If you can't figure out how to canoe together over the long enough period and make it a more pleasurable experience than if you would be canoeing alone, probably things would get messy in other strata of life. I think I would add the "moissanite test" as well into my harness.

francisofascii 7y ago

It is probably more cultural pressure rather than marketing. Especially if your mother, aunts, sisters, cousins, are all getting diamonds. It takes a special level of courage to go against the grain. The desire to "fit in" is strong.

throwaway-hn123 7y ago

Or perhaps you and your wife are shallow losers?

andrepd 7y ago

She was happy skipping travelling but not an indistinguishable rock on a ring? The marketing is too strong indeed.

1980phipsi 7y ago
It's the social factor. It takes a special kind of person to not only be happy with the cheaper thing but also to not let people know that it's cheaper. If I bought my wife a cheaper ring, I'd be telling everybody the deal I got. However, that is the opposite of the purpose here...
- wavefunction 7y ago
  It takes a special kind of person to be happy with a cheap thing they paid way too much for.
  - incongruity 7y ago
    As much as I want to applaud the wit here, the truth is that it really doesn’t - that phenomenon is quintessentially human. We (as a species) will go cognitive miles to avoid actually facing embarrassment or admitting to being fooled. Your thing might not be overpaying for a diamond and it’s unlikely you can see your own instance(s) but I’m sure you have seen it in others on the regular.
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    yes, but we love them all the same
    - papln 7y ago
      Honestly I think the diamond-ring culture is deeply unhealthy - it creates an artificial large resentment event right at the beginning of a commitment, that may destabilize the whole relationship.
      - hombre_fatal 7y ago
        I've seen threads on r/relationship_advice and r/TwoXChromosomes where women are desperately distraught over issues having to do with the ring their fiancé/husband bought them, it really does seem like unnecessary hardship. Though, as a man, figuring out your partner's expectations of rings and weddings (and family and children and ...) is part of the dating process. You really shouldn't be blindsided at the engagement phase. I'm reminded of a friend from high school who is got divorced after finding out his wife of two years didn't want and never wanted children. His defense was "it just never came up!"
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bildung 7y ago
To be fair there is no objective value in travelling either. It's a matter of the specific personality profile that makes a person attracted to one or both or neither of those two modes of consumption.
- chris_overseas 7y ago
  Well there's evidence that spending money on experiences rather than material goods will make you happier: https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/01/feel-happier-talk-about-experiences-not-things https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2013/01/feel-happier-talk-a...
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > To be fair there is no objective value in travelling either. Except that the literature has shown that people generally find greater happiness using their money to buy experiences rather than things. From a researcher who wrote (the) book on happiness: > "Shifting from buying stuff to buying experiences, and from spending on yourself to spending on others, can have a dramatic impact on happiness," writes Dunn and her co-author Michael Norton. * https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/happiness-is-buying-experience-not-stuff-29833931.html https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/happiness-is-buying-exp... * https://dunn.psych.ubc.ca https://dunn.psych.ubc.ca * http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/dp/1451665075 http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Money-Science-Happier-Spending/d... If, per Aristotle, happiness is the supreme good, it would objectively be better to spend your limited resources on things that are more likely to give it to you. * https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201301/aristotle-happiness https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201301/ar...
  - bildung 7y ago
    > Except that the literature has shown that people generally find greater happiness using their money to buy experiences rather than things. Yes, but a) travelling is not the only way to buy experiences by any means, b) Actually doing/ creating things or experiences is infinitely more rewarding than consumption[1]. Programming, making music, painting, woodworking, cooking, gardening, whatever tickles your fancy. All those studies still only are about buying. [1] for certain personalities.
klyrs 7y ago
One way I've seen engagement rings used is as an unspoken pre-prenup. He cheats, she bails and sells the ring. I say "unspoken" but I've heard men and women speak rather frankly about the exchange
- papln 7y ago
  The ring doesn't have enough resale value for that (and the breakup would spoil the sentimental value of keeping the gem). The incentive isn't compensation for her, it's sunk cost for him.
  - klyrs 7y ago
    Just reporting what I've heard. If he spends $20k and she sells it for $2k, it's still a $2k bonus to her.

renjimen 7y ago

Did you ask her why? It doesn't outwardly seem pragmatic if she's happy to forego expense which provide a service or experience, but not a piece of stone that weighs less than a gram and serves no function other than to display wealth. You'd be better spending that money on a fancy sports car - at least you'd get some fun out of it and a fair resale value.

slig 7y ago
> and serves no function other than to display wealth That's the point: signal to peers that you've found a great partner that's willing to throw this kind of money away just for your status.
- agent008t 7y ago
  Why is signalling that to peers useful or a good thing?
  - ableal 7y ago
    That's been thought out a while ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
  - austhrow743 7y ago
    Makes you feel good.
- harimau777 7y ago
  I suppose you could accomplish the same thing by just not telling people that it's moissanite.
  - lelima 7y ago
    I think most girls check somehow the ring/diamond value.
    - 7y ago

friendlybus 7y ago

It's difficult to separate out the marketing and social side from her own values and feelings.

theshadowknows 7y ago
This is it. My family as it currently stands has two “ring” related stories: Story 1. Both my and my wife’s wedding rings were stolen. The wedding bands were my parents’ and had been in the family for the better part of a hundred years. Though they were extremely simple, plain gold rings with very little value (prob got $50 at a pawn shop if that). We replaced them with similar rings just because we wanted them. Story 2. My wife had a ring that had belonged to her grandmother. It was very ornate and had many kinds of jewel including diamonds and Ruby’s. It was very old school in design but was quite pretty. It was also stolen. I found a similar one for about $14,000 online and offered to buy it for my wife who was devastated at the loss but she refused because it “wasn’t the same” which I of course understood. So there’s more than just the dollar value of the thing is what I’m saying.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Pedantic: it had gems, and was a jewel.

grogenaut 7y ago

My wife is pretty rational but was emotional on this point. I made my position and moral issues with diamonds clear from the second date. she went with the value argument until I hit her with appraisals of her grandmother's ring and industry trends. Wife bought a really pretty sapphire ring from Etsy in the days when it was hand made for around $650. She's very happy with it. It's actually unique.

bane 7y ago

My wife is as well. When we were married we were too poor to buy a diamond, but she always held out the desire for one. Coincidentally, about the time the movie "Blood Diamond" came out (2006) was about the time we were able to afford a decent diamond for her. The movie had a huge impact on her and she spent weeks slipping in between diamond shopping and learning about blood diamonds. While she knew that diamonds are more or less worthless logically, the marketing and social drivers kept it in her head that she needed one - the emotional need was very very high. But the more she read about the human cost the more in conflict the social worth of the things became. Ultimately she decided that the moral cost aligned with her logical mind and that's what finally overrode her emotional desire to get one. She still wanted a sparkly thing and after spending some time looking in to lab grown diamonds, she coudn't get over the basic worthlessness of having an expensive sparkly thing and ended up just getting a modest lab grown moissanite ring -- on sale and with a discount coupon.

saiya-jin 7y ago
No matter how much we pat ourselves on the back for how rational and smart beings we humans are, the reality is that emotions are running the show much more than logic. Evidence is everywhere - elections, fashion, life, shopping and partner choices and so on. For some people its almost purely emotions, and their lives usually look accordingly. Peer pressure, status symbols etc - all just variations of same emotional loops. Congrats to having such a smart wife.
- dwoozle 7y ago
  You can get pretty far by modeling humans as 1/2 bacteria and 1/2 beagle.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  Not only are emotions running the show, the emotions are being run by very rational marketers and politicians. Although this may have been less true in past centuries, today being run by emotions means being run by other people.
  - 7y ago

logfromblammo 7y ago

I told the spouse that I am not buying a diamond, ever, nearly 20 years ago, and I haven't. I like synthetic corundums: sapphires and rubies. I understand the synthesis process, which does not involve hired enforcer thugs and criminal exploitation of poor laborers. They are hard enough to resist scratches from most things, and they fracture conchoidally, instead of along 4 perfect planes of cleavage. I'm also good with nephrite and jadeite, which can take a pounding, due to their fibrous crystals and interlocking crystals, respectively. The spouse is not okay with this, and makes only token efforts to hide disdain, but I am stubborn enough to die before giving a single penny to some parasitic international diamond cartel, just for a little bit more refractive index, hardness, and thermal conductivity. We're still not a diamond-free household, though. Some have been inherited from more foolish ancestors. We have also "mined" natural corundums at a touristy dirt-washing operation in western North Carolina. This, of course, led immediately to talk about digging up yellow/brown rough diamonds in Crater of Diamonds (Arkansas) State Park, which immediately informed me that the venomous DeBeers brain-hooks were still set. It just makes me hate the cartel more. I think what irritates me most is that their marketing is so effective. You can show an entire feature film, starring A-list actors, about people getting brutally murdered over the diamond trade, and people will unabashedly say they still want diamond jewelry after watching. Hell, you can watch Marathon Man, and hear, "I'm afraid of dentists now, but I would also like to keep all the diamonds I can eat." They have somehow made diamonds bypass all reason, and link directly to the emotional center of the psyche, with nothing more than decades of persistent advertising.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Get a lab grown diamond. Seriously - hey look great, undercut the cartels and are physically basically the same by any reasonable measure.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  All gemstone diamonds, lab-grown or not, contribute to the collective cultural mind-warp that DeBeers has created. Diamonds do not make you look great. Or, at minimum, they do not make you look better than cheaper, non-cartelized clear gemstones, such as moissanite, cubic zirconia, clear sapphire, clear beryl (goshenite), clear topaz, or even clear quartz. Think about why you would rather have a diamond than any other mineral. Think about why a synthetic carbon allotrope sells at such a large premium over its actual cost of synthesis. They're still riding along on the coattails of DeBeers' 9 decades of unrelenting marketing. If I were getting a pure carbon allotrope jewelry centerpiece, I would very much prefer a single graphene molecule, 235 km long, rolled up into a spiral 1 cm thick--preferably oriented to be most conductive along the axis. Now that would be something worth wearing!

Thaxll 7y ago

Sorry but it doesn't sound like someone pragmatic or smart, diamond is just a rock that's worth x amount of $ nothing more. Someone pragmatic would be happy with "any" kind of ring, when I see those big diamonds it reminds me of those dumb people showing off their ring to friends in TV shows. I'm not sure for other countries but diamond is a very US thing.

wnevets 7y ago

I ran into the same issue. I don't know if was the marketing, just wanted the commitment in dollars before telling everyone she's engaged or the status symbol to show off to other people but it had to be a significant diamond. One of the things that surprised me was man made diamonds at the size and quality she wanted weren't actually cheaper.

ncmncm 7y ago
Cheaper for them, just not for you. Same as the dug ones, really.

rossdavidh 7y ago

It's not the marketing. It's the fact that it's what biologists call expensive signaling. You are spending money, not on a trip that you both enjoy, but on a ring that really only she enjoys. This is an expensive (therefore hard to fake) signal that you care about how she feels. Now, imagine that the diamond is cheaper. It is no longer an expensive signal. Therefore, although the diamond is the same, it no longer serves the same purpose. So, the cheaper diamonds get, the less demand there is from prospective brides, even if only marginally. This fuels further declines, although that is probably already happening due to better industrial diamonds. This takes time, of course. But that also means it has a lot of momentum. As the price decline continues, and the word of that spreads, it will accelerate.

standardUser 7y ago
This reminds me of the popular idea of "love languages". I was always baffled by the idea that some people considered "gifts" to be the most important way to express love. But diamond rings seem to fit this paradigm perfectly.
- magduf 7y ago
  No, it's different. For instance, gift-giving is a really big deal in Asian cultures. It's not about throwing lots of money around, it's just showing that you're thinking of someone, so gifts can be very small and inexpensive. So gift-giving is certainly a valid love language, just like physical touch, words of affection, etc. Some people just really like to give their loved one small gifts, and some people really like getting them. They can be small clothing items, candies/food, whatever. Diamonds aren't "small gifts"; they're absurdly expensive ornaments. Their primary purpose is so American women can show off to other women how much money their husbands have. It's a bit like having a really expensive luxury car: it's a signal to others to show you're rich, not a way for someone to show affection to another. Edit: About Asian cultures, I'll also add, it's just just lovers. Coworkers will frequently get each other small gifts, or gifts for everyone on the team. This is usually small food items, not anything at all expensive. They might do this if they travel somewhere. I had an Asian (i.e., he had just moved from SE Asia for this job) coworker once give everyone on our team some nice variety of tea, for instance.

0000011111 7y ago

Ya, I read the introduction to book blood diamonds with my wife. It helped us see past the engagement diamond consumer culture.

papln 7y ago

My partner is very smart and pragmatic, and opted for a non-diamond engagement gem. A few years later, an upgrade to a diamond was demanded, on threat of divorce. Peer pressure is amazing on this topic. (It's fun to have this conversation with gender-neutral pronouns.)

jp555 7y ago
"an upgrade to a diamond was demanded, on threat of divorce" this sounds like the opposite of a true marriage to me. *But of course I have no idea about your lives and wish you the very best.
bdamm 7y ago
Meanwhile, my wife and I have not even worn rings for years, and no plan on the table to get new ones. Initially it was caused because we went through a very rough patch and we both were giving up on the marriage. But that turned around, and now years later the work we've done in our marriage stands on its own, and the rings are only a reminder of the shredded remains of the old marriage. So we don't wear them.
mlrtime 7y ago
Sounds like she values a rock over you, don't negotiate with terrorists.

mirimir 7y ago

Huh. I've been married three times, and the issue of diamond rings never came up. But then, I would never have married someone who raised the issue. Edit: In case it's not obvious, the "diamonds for women" thing is blatantly sexist. And it's a flag for other attitudes.

mrtweetyhack 7y ago

Sheep

BubRoss 7y ago

I hope you at least got a diamond with an official certificate containing the picture and signature of the child soldier that found it.

smegger001 7y ago

Mine wanted a Diamond so we compromised and bought it at a pawn shop for a far lower price. Second hand diamonds are cheap because there are so many they aren't worth anything. The whole retail diamond market is all just scam.

t0ughcritic 7y ago

It’s just silly how women get away with this. In a equal world. Imagine if a man said I like the cultural aspect of you staying home and cooking/cleaning while I work and it’s non negotiable.

austhrow743 7y ago
The wrong part of that inequality is the backlash that man would receive. Ideal world, both of them feel free to express their wants clearly and early. Equality in being shamed for wants is a bad equality.

sytelus 7y ago

I've recommended a test called "canoe test" for figuring out compatibility with your future partner. If you can't figure out how to canoe together over the long enough period and make it a more pleasurable experience than if you would be canoeing alone, probably things would get messy in other strata of life. I think I would add the "moissanite test" as well into my harness.