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BlizzCon 2019 Protest “Full-Steam Ahead,” Say Organizers

419 points by partingshots 7y ago

prepend 7y ago
Blizzard president Brack’s statement that their policy limiting player speech is to “ keep the focus on the game and on the tournament." This is curious in such an ad supported game and tournament coverage. Do twitch ads take focus away from the tournament? A five second statement by a player is nothing compared to all the non-game material within and around broadcasts. This seems to me to be some damage reduction strategy that didn’t focus group its statements well enough.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- chisleu 7y ago
  Implying the distraction from the game and the tournament is just the 5 seconds. Having code-pink style protests aimed at disrupting (not raising awareness) is going to backfire on protestors and could end the internet's fascination w/ supporting HK vs China. Lets not forget that big money interests are involved heavily in pushing the astroturfing online. Many global and HK national interests depend on HK not being consumed by China. The billionaire protesting in the streets w/ people is being held up as an idol, but the reality is that he will become an even bigger target if HK unifies with China and will likely have his empire dissolved. I'm all for a free HK, but the fact is that's not going to happen. Barring a world war, they will be eventually incorporated as a part of China proper.
- CreepGin 7y ago
  It's a statement written for Chinese Authorities. This twitter thread analyzes it pretty well. https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352
  - chii 7y ago
    that's a really good and thorough analysis.
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    >See the date. As others have noted, even thought this post was on Friday, which was the 11th, the date on the post is the 12th, indicating that it was posted from overseas, possibly China. That's not a big deal in and of itself, but let's me talk about how these things are done. Ah yes, UTC == China. Very reasonable logic here! This post was almost certainly made on Fri Oct 11 2019 17:18:58 PDT from Irvine, CA. Every single post on that site has the timestamp in UTC format, this is an utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory. Either Mark Kern is misleading on purpose or he's a complete moron.
    - dzamie 7y ago
      Speaking of misleading on purpose, you're using that a very small portion of his argument is probably inaccurate as strong evidence that the entire argument is wholly incorrect. It's as though someone just finished explaining why vaccines are believed not to cause autism, and you respond "actually, this particular study you cited surveyed 924 people, not a thousand like you said. Looks like the pro-vax cult can't seem to stop lying!"
      - FDSGSG 7y ago
        >It's as though someone just finished explaining why vaccines are believed not to cause autism, and you respond "actually, this particular study you cited surveyed 924 people, not a thousand like you said. Looks like the pro-vax cult can't seem to stop lying!" That'd be a mistake, or just poor wording. It kind of sounds like you're accusing me of some kind of silly pedantry here? There's simply no way one could mistakenly arrive at the conclusion that this post might have originated from China, Mark Kern absolutely knew what he was doing when he dropped that insinuation. There's simply does not exist a single shred of evidence to support the "possibly China" claim. Had he just left it at "overseas" then you could absolutely dismiss this as a mere mistake, he did not.
- tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
  > “ keep the focus on the game and on the tournament." I just can't help myself but draw the parallels to the NBA and their current situation as well with China and the utter hypocrisy shown by everyone from GMs to Coaches all the way down to players and media staff. When it came to social issues and black incarceration and inequality in America they spoke up bravely, and stated they wouldn't just "shut up and dribble" as LeBron famously stated. Steve Kerr, a long outspoken critic of Donald Trump famously stated in 2017, "If you look at the history of the world, the biggest problems come when people don't speak." Now this is Steve Kerr in 2019 after the China controversy, specifically on whether Morey shouldn't be fired: "I would hope that you appreciate my right to not answer that question because all it does is create a headline" Sure sounds like the players and coaches are now saying "let us shut up and dribble" and "let us focus on the game"
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - chii 7y ago
    > social issues and black incarceration and inequality in America they spoke up bravely people reveal their true values when they have to actually make a sacrifice.
    - prepend 7y ago
      I was having a similar conversation about how interesting it is that celebrities are all for easy moral decisions like “you can pee next to me” but when it comes to moral decisions that might hit their pocket book, they are quiet and even suppressive. Taleb’s Skin in the Game gets brought up a lot, but I think it’s safe for me to assume that unless someone can suffer a loss, they are just saying blargh. I know there are a few people who might buy less because they really hate trans people (which is really terrible as people should not hate someone on how they express their gender), but it’s not the same hit as 400 million Chinese not buying my stuff.
      - tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
- Sysreq1 7y ago
  Honestly, I think this is going to be the end of Brack’s short tenure as top executive at Blizzard. I am reminded of the parable of the three letters. I think the company has backed itself into a corner, and the only way out is to let leadership fall on the sword.
  - Asooka 7y ago
    Can you link to said parable? I have not heard it and Google doesn't turn up useful results for "parable of the three letters".
    - Robin_Message 7y ago
      https://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm https://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm
    - KineticLensman 7y ago
      Not the GP, but perhaps the 'Prepare three envelopes' story [0], which seems relevant... > The story of three envelopes is a business classic for dysfunctional organizations. It starts with an incoming manager replacing a recently fired outgoing manager. On his way out, the outgoing manager hands the new manager three envelopes and remarks, "when things get tough, open these one at a time." > About three months goes by and things start to get rough. The manager opens his drawer where he keeps the three envelopes and opens #1. It reads: "Blame your predecessor." So he does and it works like a charm. > Another three months passes and things are growing difficult again so the manger figures to try #2. It reads, "reorganize." Again, his predecessor's advice works like magic. > Finally, about nine months into the new job, things are getting really sticky. The manager figures it worked before, why not try again. So he opens the envelope drawer one last time and opens #3. It reads..."prepare three envelopes." [0] http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes
    - Agenttin 7y ago
      The story of three envelopes is a business classic for dysfunctional organizations. It starts with an incoming manager replacing a recently fired outgoing manager. On his way out, the outgoing manager hands the new manager three envelopes and remarks, "when things get tough, open these one at a time." About three months goes by and things start to get rough. The manager opens his drawer where he keeps the three envelopes and opens #1. It reads: "Blame your predecessor." So he does and it works like a charm. Another three months passes and things are growing difficult again so the manger figures to try #2. It reads, "reorganize." Again, his predecessor's advice works like magic. Finally, about nine months into the new job, things are getting really sticky. The manager figures it worked before, why not try again. So he opens the envelope drawer one last time and opens #3. It reads..."prepare three envelopes." http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes
- bytematic 7y ago
  Probably those ads keep the tournament running, money wise, and thus result in focus on the game and on the tournament.
  - prepend 7y ago
    And motivated players don’t? This kind of reductionist non-logic means that Blizzard can do whatever they want and never reveal their true intentions. This ultimately reduces the experience for players because Blizzard acts non-predictably.
- Shivetya 7y ago
  They can eliminate the April Fools problem they had last blizzcon by simply lot allowing fans to ask questions direct to the panel but instead have them submitted and chosen. April Fools problem was when a person asking a question chose to comment and ask something else, namely about mobile version of Diablo.
  - plopz 7y ago
    That would be a pretty big admit of defeat though. Blizzcon for the last 10 years has had real customers asking questions from microphones. I assume they won't do that this year because they would be worried about what people will say, but I think that act in and of itself is very telling.
    - recursive 7y ago
      Do they have to admit it though? Is there any way an observer of the event could actually tell that the questioners were all plants?
  - chrisacky 7y ago
    That's what happened with this guy (the guy in red). He was pre-screened, he wasn't selected at random. He was well known in the community as well, Blizzard already went with a safe crowd member. Short of embedding their own "paid-crowd" in the audience.. they couldn't have done much more.
me_me_me 7y ago
This will be truly interesting to see. I wonder what can Blizzard possibly do for this not to spiral out of control and please West and China at the same time. I do not envy their PR department right now. But then again its all their own doing, so ready up the popcorn...
- chii 7y ago
  they cannot please both. They will have to ride out the bad PR in the west, because they cannot afford to ride out the chinese market's dominance and profits.
  - sodosopa 7y ago
    the Chinese are 14% of their business. They could cut in other areas to make up for that loss.
    - chii 7y ago
      activision (blizzard's parent(?) company) is looking to expand in the chinese market. I m using this as a source : https://youtu.be/L3E1feh30fE?t=59 https://youtu.be/L3E1feh30fE?t=59 , and i m certain they want to ensure that their mobile titles do well in the chinese market (like their up-coming COD titles, as well as existing titles like candy crush etc). This requires that the chinese gov't "approve" them. They don't want to jeopardize this relationship.
    - sp332 7y ago
      Wouldn't they have to grow in other areas to make up the loss? That sounds a lot harder.
    - zipwitch 7y ago
      No. The Asia Pacific region is 14% of their business. That certainly includes China, but it isn't all China. https://www.statista.com/statistics/269665/activison-blizzards-revenue-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269665/activison-blizzar...
bovermyer 7y ago
As long as the protesters don't disrupt the experience that I paid for too much, they can do whatever they want. After weighing the facts carefully, I've decided that Blizzard was justified in penalizing the Hearthstone player, justified in penalizing the two casters, and truly abysmal at managing public relations. My position on Hong Kong is unchanged. I'm still firmly of the belief that China needs to grant Hong Kong full autonomy and/or independence, and that China needs to stop trying to extend its morally bankrupt censorship beyond its own borders.
- zajd 7y ago
  > As long as the protesters don't disrupt the experience that I paid for too much, they can do whatever they want. Grow a backbone, some things are more important than a video game expo
- lovich 7y ago
  Ah yes, as long as the protesters are non disruptive and I can ignore them they are allowed to protest as they want. Should they inconvenience me however, someone will have to take care of them
- madez 7y ago
  Protest is supposed to interrupt, to be there where it isn't wanted. It is supposed to be inconvenient and blocking.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    If you stand on the side of the road with your signs, I may read your signs, and I might even be sympathetic to your cause. If you block the road with your signs, I definitely won't read your signs, and I definitely won't be sympathetic to your cause. Same for any type of violence.
    - madez 7y ago
      That might be true. If 500.000 people block every big street in a city, you will read the signs and think about the cause. What a protest can afford depends on how many are protesting. Going to the specific event in question, the convention of Activision Blizzard, if one person tries to blocks the event with protest, they will be removed, if necessary by physical force. If sufficiently many block the event with protest, the protest will be successful.
burger_moon 7y ago
I haven't been following this Blizzard situation (debacle maybe?) too closely but does anyone know which has had a greater affect on American's humanitarian interests in Hong Kong, was it Blizzard or the NBA? It's hard to tell if I'm seeing Blizzard and gaming show up more because of tech overlap but both seemed to have a huge impact on increased discussion among people around me. It really brought a lot of exposure to people who don't follow the news that closely, ime anyways.
- chii 7y ago
  blizzard, by drawing attention and banning the HS player, has inadvertently caused their own PR nightmare. If they just left it alone, there would've been less issues, and the media wouldn't be discussing it at all.
  - romanovcode 7y ago
    > and the media wouldn't be discussing it at all. But the Chinese government might. And that might be much worse for them.
    - falcolas 7y ago
      Unless Activision Blizzard plans to move their HQ to China, having the US government talking about you in a very negative light is likely worse for them.
      - deminature 7y ago
        The playerbase for some of their games is apparently as high as 70% China-based [1]. We can't verify this, because Blizzard doesn't release that information publicly, but if even remotely true, losing access to the Chinese market would be financially devastating. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAlh9l-c7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAlh9l-c7Q
        falcolas 7y ago
ajuc 7y ago
Blizzard counts on revenue from China making up for the revenue lost due to censorship. Gamers in the west hope Blizzard is wrong.
- zipwitch 7y ago
  Gamers in the rest of the world can all do our part to make sure Blizzard is wrong.
seanalltogether 7y ago
The fact that Blizzard is in a position to throw a 'Con' each year shows that their games and lore are way more highly valued then most games companies. Could you imagine fans paying $230 to visit to an EA exclusive convention each year? Not gonna happen with their reputation. Blizzard is at real risk of losing this community they've fostered for the last 20+ years
- entropea 7y ago
  > Blizzard is at real risk of losing this community they've fostered for the last 20+ years I'm reminded of that image of people in a Call of Duty boycott on Steam, playing Call of Duty. Blizzard will lose some money over the next couple of weeks, but aren't at a real risk of anything. https://kotaku.com/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing-5403286 https://kotaku.com/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-play...
  - colmvp 7y ago
    Maybe. Hearthstone has been on a downward trend for the last 1.75 years as evident by their quarterly reports over that time period which state the game has had a decline of active users and revenue. They’ve even started to monetize previously non-monetized product offerings but it didn’t result in the game out-earning previous expansions released in the same time of the year. I doubt the current scandal has helped the numbers recover.
  - minimaxir 7y ago
    That Call of Duty meme has long since been discredited. https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-you-posted-the-boycott-modern-warfare-2-steam-group-picture.110009/ https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-you-posted-the-boycott-m...
    - entropea 7y ago
      >Does that mean that only these 19 people of 833 were playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 at the time? Probably not. There are defnitly more people that played it despite being in the group. It could very well be possible that people in the group not in this picture all played Modern Warfare 2 at the time. However, this picture doesn't show it. Not really.
iddqd 7y ago
Best protest is to not attend, offline or online. Ignore the news they share.
lovetocode 7y ago
Blizzard needs some OG leadership to come in and fix their situation. I hate seeing my childhood get ruined.
- Razengan 7y ago
  Like the Ship of Theseus, I don't think Blizzard is the same company you grew up with any longer.
CivBase 7y ago
IMO, Blizzards actions have been borderline incompetent. I completely understand them not wanting their platform to be used to make political statements. This isn't like the NBA situation where Morey used a private social media account to show support for his private political opiniona. This was a platform owned by Blizzard with a very specific content focus. But banning Blitzchung for any amount of time was just dumb. They have the right to respond that way, but it's still a dumb response. They should have made a public statement following the incident that went something like this: "We encourage players and community members to express themselves. However, our tournament coverage is a platform for Blizzard e-sports content only. Any future use of the platform to express personal political opinions on sensitive subject matter without Blizzard's express conscent will be met with punative action." Follow that up with a description of what that punative action would look like. I can't imagine any backlash to that. Many people would be unhappy, but I doubt there would be protests or letters from congress. Blizzard made a mistake and they are refusing to learn from it. Now they get to deal with the fallout.
- javerikr 7y ago
  > incompetent
- dwoozle 7y ago
  No. The Chinese government is using this entire crisis as a way of testing the limits of its power. They wanted to test it in a 0-10 scale but found the needle zoomed up to the right stop, so they adjusted the scale to 0-100 by dialing up their actions to even more extreme. That’s why they’re forcing these companies to bend the knee in public rather than quietly. They didn’t want to just disable the HKLive app, they wanted to see whether they could force Apple’s CEO to write a public mea culpa for them, which he did. You can be certain that a person with a direct line of authority to Xi made it very clear that Blizzard would not be allowed to “tactfully” deal with the situation publicist-style. What you will soon see is the Chinese outrage dialing down as the government gets a good read on the 0-100 number and retreats for the next 30 years to build strategic power while the rest of the world gets distracted by the next Thing.
  - 7y ago
slater 7y ago
So, Winnie-the-Pooh outfits for everyone?
Beltiras 7y ago
My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. No other gaming company has the breadth of socially reformative messaging contained in WoW, Overwatch et.al. Should Blizz perform corporate harakiri by appeasing the angry SJW (not spoken derisively) in the West, the CCP would have no problem shutting down access to Blizz and the population would hardly notice. They would however not be exposed to the gaming content meaning the generational war with culture will be lost. I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy for changes to the culture in the west. An example is Marvel changing a Tibetan male monk to a western woman. His contention is that even that change was handled as well as you could expect. Even choosing the Celts as her culture is a small poke at the Chinese for their oppression of the Tibetans. Making it a woman even more so. I'm still angry at Blizz and thinking about what he said. I will at the very least boycott past the Nov. 7th earnings call to see how deep it runs. He does have a point about the greater good. This might be the wrong target for outrage.
- diminoten 7y ago
  No he doesn't. Some good deeds don't erase your bad deeds, especially when those bad deeds were done in what now appears to be bad faith.
  - Beltiras 7y ago
    I'm still on the fence. I'm still boycotting. I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      You've "come around" to that position? Are you suggesting that the baseline isn't that position? No one is suggesting Blizzard is irredeemable, it's just very unlikely, given Blizzard's past behavior, that they're going to take the necessary steps to fix this. Honestly, what the heck are you even talking about? You sound like someone who is actively trying to misrepresent the situation...
jpetrucc 7y ago
Blizzard used to be my favorite gaming company. I remember when I was much younger dreaming of being able to work there on World of Warcraft. I played a ridiculous amount of WoW/Warcraft 3/Starcraft as a kid, and more recently a decent amount of WoW/Hearthstone/Overwatch. I had been a WoW subscriber for over a decade. WoW's quality has been in decline (IMO) recently in BFA, and I stayed because I still occasionally enjoyed it, but it no longer has the same magic that I remember. WoW Classic brought back some of that nostalgia, but it was short lived for me. BlizzCon last year made it pretty clear that Blizzard has shifted their focus [0]. There is no way they were delusional enough to expect a happy reaction to the Diablo Immortal announcement. It's very clearly targeted at the Chinese market. Their actions in the past month (and year) are very telling - they are no longer the company I used to admire. I've canceled my WoW subscription as of last week, and I've deleted all of their games from my devices. I know that my actions alone/individually don't really have an impact on them, but I can't go on supporting them after the things they've been doing recently. Bellular has a pretty good video breaking down some of this situation as well [1]. It'll be interesting to see how BlizzCon goes this year. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/9tsy49/blizzard_getting_booed_for_the_first_time_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/9tsy49/blizzard_get... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbPrbqE06Y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbPrbqE06Y4
- sylk 7y ago
  We do this together, you're not the only one. I even disavowed Hearthstone, even though I've played since the open beta. Cast them to the Chinese market, that's what they want the most. I guess that's fine, I just won't give them any more money. It also seems we're not the only two people on NA that are doing this, so relish in the fact that there's many more of us out there, where this finally drew a line.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  >Their actions in the past month (and year) are very telling - they are no longer the company I used to admire. "Never meet your heroes".
ericol 7y ago
I think that's the ruling party way of things: They usually try to obliterate into particles whoever dares to oppose them. Or whoever crosses their path; or whoever they don't like for whatever reason. Just take a look at the Uyghurs situation. * edited because it seems people where taking offence on I miss using the word Chinese instead of "ruling party", that is actually what I meant.
- falcolas 7y ago
  How did their idiom go? "We'll grind you up and crush your bones." Sure, it is just an idiom, but it speaks to the thoroughness of their punishments. EDIT: This is a direct, and recent, quote from Xí Jìnpíng when discussing (with foreign leaders) how the Chinese government will treat anyone who tries to split or sew dissent in China.
  - cyc116 7y ago
    How does the English idiom goes? "ignorance is bliss" Sure, it's just an idiom, but it definitely sound like it applies to you when you make a racial comment like that.
    - falcolas 7y ago
      Is it a racial comment when the leader of a country uses that exact quote to describe how they will deal with anyone who threatens the harmony of China, including the situations that the grandparent was referring to? https://supchina.com/2019/10/15/well-grind-you-up-and-crush-your-bones-tough-talk-from-chinas-leader/ https://supchina.com/2019/10/15/well-grind-you-up-and-crush-...
      - cyc116 7y ago
        Reply to comment from Falcolas: > Is it a racial comment when the leader of a country uses that exact quote to describe how they will deal with anyone who threatens the harmony of China, including the situations that the grandparent was referring to? It is, when your message is an explicit commented on "I think that's the Chinese way of thing:[...]". Please understand that Xi does not speak for all Chinese (hence the protest and conflict) and having an idiom about crushing bones says next to nothing about how a culture or race is. There are plenty of idioms in English about idiots. Does that say anything about English speakers? I highly doubt it. --- Update Pardon my words. I said it too hastily and don't mean to accuse you. I am born in China and have lived 10 years there. I disagree with some of the actions of the current Chinese government but I am also frustrated with people commenting on things without spending enough time to self educate. The link that you have attached seem to be mostly anti-government and (IMO) provides a very limited view on a very complex problem.
cm2012 7y ago
Blizzard is more vulnerable to financial boycotts than other companies: 1) Their product is only used for fun. 2) They have subscription products that aren't used all the time, and thus easy to cancel if someone is reminded they have it. I would be surprised if their next quarters earnings projections didnt take a nose dive.
fareesh 7y ago
At this rate Blizzard will move Blizzcon to China
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  That would be the ultimate capitulation. So I expect it.
rosybox 7y ago
My 11 year old daughter has been looking forward to her first BlizzCon all year. She has been saving her allowance money so she can buy some d.va gear. She's been planning her cosplay, she's working with her mom to sew a d.va dress together based on a skin she likes. Everyday I walk her to school she's telling me her next Overwatch plan. I understand the protests, I'm angry myself at Blizzard's actions, but I'm not about to break her heart over my political opinions. Blizzard isn't going to be the only one hurt by what's happening.
- dmix 7y ago
  Not everyone has to be a political activist, especially an 11yr old. Life is short and full of competing priorities, I doubt it will get much worse because a father and his daughter didn't protest. I wouldn't worry about it. Hopefully no one harasses those who still decide to go or causes any violence. That never helps anyone.
- ulkesh 7y ago
  You are a good parent. Thank you. She doesn't deserve to lose out because Blizzard decided that their financial interests in China are more important than ethics and morality. I hope you both have fun there!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

419 points by partingshots 7y ago

Blizzard president Brack’s statement that their policy limiting player speech is to “ keep the focus on the game and on the tournament." This is curious in such an ad supported game and tournament coverage. Do twitch ads take focus away from the tournament? A five second statement by a player is nothing compared to all the non-game material within and around broadcasts. This seems to me to be some damage reduction strategy that didn’t focus group its statements well enough.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
chisleu 7y ago
Implying the distraction from the game and the tournament is just the 5 seconds. Having code-pink style protests aimed at disrupting (not raising awareness) is going to backfire on protestors and could end the internet's fascination w/ supporting HK vs China. Lets not forget that big money interests are involved heavily in pushing the astroturfing online. Many global and HK national interests depend on HK not being consumed by China. The billionaire protesting in the streets w/ people is being held up as an idol, but the reality is that he will become an even bigger target if HK unifies with China and will likely have his empire dissolved. I'm all for a free HK, but the fact is that's not going to happen. Barring a world war, they will be eventually incorporated as a part of China proper.
CreepGin 7y ago
It's a statement written for Chinese Authorities. This twitter thread analyzes it pretty well. https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352
- chii 7y ago
  that's a really good and thorough analysis.
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  >See the date. As others have noted, even thought this post was on Friday, which was the 11th, the date on the post is the 12th, indicating that it was posted from overseas, possibly China. That's not a big deal in and of itself, but let's me talk about how these things are done. Ah yes, UTC == China. Very reasonable logic here! This post was almost certainly made on Fri Oct 11 2019 17:18:58 PDT from Irvine, CA. Every single post on that site has the timestamp in UTC format, this is an utterly ridiculous conspiracy theory. Either Mark Kern is misleading on purpose or he's a complete moron.
  - dzamie 7y ago
    Speaking of misleading on purpose, you're using that a very small portion of his argument is probably inaccurate as strong evidence that the entire argument is wholly incorrect. It's as though someone just finished explaining why vaccines are believed not to cause autism, and you respond "actually, this particular study you cited surveyed 924 people, not a thousand like you said. Looks like the pro-vax cult can't seem to stop lying!"
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      >It's as though someone just finished explaining why vaccines are believed not to cause autism, and you respond "actually, this particular study you cited surveyed 924 people, not a thousand like you said. Looks like the pro-vax cult can't seem to stop lying!" That'd be a mistake, or just poor wording. It kind of sounds like you're accusing me of some kind of silly pedantry here? There's simply no way one could mistakenly arrive at the conclusion that this post might have originated from China, Mark Kern absolutely knew what he was doing when he dropped that insinuation. There's simply does not exist a single shred of evidence to support the "possibly China" claim. Had he just left it at "overseas" then you could absolutely dismiss this as a mere mistake, he did not.
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
> “ keep the focus on the game and on the tournament." I just can't help myself but draw the parallels to the NBA and their current situation as well with China and the utter hypocrisy shown by everyone from GMs to Coaches all the way down to players and media staff. When it came to social issues and black incarceration and inequality in America they spoke up bravely, and stated they wouldn't just "shut up and dribble" as LeBron famously stated. Steve Kerr, a long outspoken critic of Donald Trump famously stated in 2017, "If you look at the history of the world, the biggest problems come when people don't speak." Now this is Steve Kerr in 2019 after the China controversy, specifically on whether Morey shouldn't be fired: "I would hope that you appreciate my right to not answer that question because all it does is create a headline" Sure sounds like the players and coaches are now saying "let us shut up and dribble" and "let us focus on the game"
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- chii 7y ago
  > social issues and black incarceration and inequality in America they spoke up bravely people reveal their true values when they have to actually make a sacrifice.
  - prepend 7y ago
    I was having a similar conversation about how interesting it is that celebrities are all for easy moral decisions like “you can pee next to me” but when it comes to moral decisions that might hit their pocket book, they are quiet and even suppressive. Taleb’s Skin in the Game gets brought up a lot, but I think it’s safe for me to assume that unless someone can suffer a loss, they are just saying blargh. I know there are a few people who might buy less because they really hate trans people (which is really terrible as people should not hate someone on how they express their gender), but it’s not the same hit as 400 million Chinese not buying my stuff.
    - tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
Sysreq1 7y ago
Honestly, I think this is going to be the end of Brack’s short tenure as top executive at Blizzard. I am reminded of the parable of the three letters. I think the company has backed itself into a corner, and the only way out is to let leadership fall on the sword.
- Asooka 7y ago
  Can you link to said parable? I have not heard it and Google doesn't turn up useful results for "parable of the three letters".
  - Robin_Message 7y ago
    https://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm https://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm
  - KineticLensman 7y ago
    Not the GP, but perhaps the 'Prepare three envelopes' story [0], which seems relevant... > The story of three envelopes is a business classic for dysfunctional organizations. It starts with an incoming manager replacing a recently fired outgoing manager. On his way out, the outgoing manager hands the new manager three envelopes and remarks, "when things get tough, open these one at a time." > About three months goes by and things start to get rough. The manager opens his drawer where he keeps the three envelopes and opens #1. It reads: "Blame your predecessor." So he does and it works like a charm. > Another three months passes and things are growing difficult again so the manger figures to try #2. It reads, "reorganize." Again, his predecessor's advice works like magic. > Finally, about nine months into the new job, things are getting really sticky. The manager figures it worked before, why not try again. So he opens the envelope drawer one last time and opens #3. It reads..."prepare three envelopes." [0] http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes
  - Agenttin 7y ago
    The story of three envelopes is a business classic for dysfunctional organizations. It starts with an incoming manager replacing a recently fired outgoing manager. On his way out, the outgoing manager hands the new manager three envelopes and remarks, "when things get tough, open these one at a time." About three months goes by and things start to get rough. The manager opens his drawer where he keeps the three envelopes and opens #1. It reads: "Blame your predecessor." So he does and it works like a charm. Another three months passes and things are growing difficult again so the manger figures to try #2. It reads, "reorganize." Again, his predecessor's advice works like magic. Finally, about nine months into the new job, things are getting really sticky. The manager figures it worked before, why not try again. So he opens the envelope drawer one last time and opens #3. It reads..."prepare three envelopes." http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Prepare_three_envelopes
bytematic 7y ago
Probably those ads keep the tournament running, money wise, and thus result in focus on the game and on the tournament.
- prepend 7y ago
  And motivated players don’t? This kind of reductionist non-logic means that Blizzard can do whatever they want and never reveal their true intentions. This ultimately reduces the experience for players because Blizzard acts non-predictably.
Shivetya 7y ago
They can eliminate the April Fools problem they had last blizzcon by simply lot allowing fans to ask questions direct to the panel but instead have them submitted and chosen. April Fools problem was when a person asking a question chose to comment and ask something else, namely about mobile version of Diablo.
- plopz 7y ago
  That would be a pretty big admit of defeat though. Blizzcon for the last 10 years has had real customers asking questions from microphones. I assume they won't do that this year because they would be worried about what people will say, but I think that act in and of itself is very telling.
  - recursive 7y ago
    Do they have to admit it though? Is there any way an observer of the event could actually tell that the questioners were all plants?
- chrisacky 7y ago
  That's what happened with this guy (the guy in red). He was pre-screened, he wasn't selected at random. He was well known in the community as well, Blizzard already went with a safe crowd member. Short of embedding their own "paid-crowd" in the audience.. they couldn't have done much more.

me_me_me 7y ago

This will be truly interesting to see. I wonder what can Blizzard possibly do for this not to spiral out of control and please West and China at the same time. I do not envy their PR department right now. But then again its all their own doing, so ready up the popcorn...

chii 7y ago
they cannot please both. They will have to ride out the bad PR in the west, because they cannot afford to ride out the chinese market's dominance and profits.
- sodosopa 7y ago
  the Chinese are 14% of their business. They could cut in other areas to make up for that loss.
  - chii 7y ago
    activision (blizzard's parent(?) company) is looking to expand in the chinese market. I m using this as a source : https://youtu.be/L3E1feh30fE?t=59 https://youtu.be/L3E1feh30fE?t=59 , and i m certain they want to ensure that their mobile titles do well in the chinese market (like their up-coming COD titles, as well as existing titles like candy crush etc). This requires that the chinese gov't "approve" them. They don't want to jeopardize this relationship.
  - sp332 7y ago
    Wouldn't they have to grow in other areas to make up the loss? That sounds a lot harder.
  - zipwitch 7y ago
    No. The Asia Pacific region is 14% of their business. That certainly includes China, but it isn't all China. https://www.statista.com/statistics/269665/activison-blizzards-revenue-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269665/activison-blizzar...

bovermyer 7y ago

As long as the protesters don't disrupt the experience that I paid for too much, they can do whatever they want. After weighing the facts carefully, I've decided that Blizzard was justified in penalizing the Hearthstone player, justified in penalizing the two casters, and truly abysmal at managing public relations. My position on Hong Kong is unchanged. I'm still firmly of the belief that China needs to grant Hong Kong full autonomy and/or independence, and that China needs to stop trying to extend its morally bankrupt censorship beyond its own borders.

zajd 7y ago
> As long as the protesters don't disrupt the experience that I paid for too much, they can do whatever they want. Grow a backbone, some things are more important than a video game expo
lovich 7y ago
Ah yes, as long as the protesters are non disruptive and I can ignore them they are allowed to protest as they want. Should they inconvenience me however, someone will have to take care of them
madez 7y ago
Protest is supposed to interrupt, to be there where it isn't wanted. It is supposed to be inconvenient and blocking.
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  If you stand on the side of the road with your signs, I may read your signs, and I might even be sympathetic to your cause. If you block the road with your signs, I definitely won't read your signs, and I definitely won't be sympathetic to your cause. Same for any type of violence.
  - madez 7y ago
    That might be true. If 500.000 people block every big street in a city, you will read the signs and think about the cause. What a protest can afford depends on how many are protesting. Going to the specific event in question, the convention of Activision Blizzard, if one person tries to blocks the event with protest, they will be removed, if necessary by physical force. If sufficiently many block the event with protest, the protest will be successful.

burger_moon 7y ago

I haven't been following this Blizzard situation (debacle maybe?) too closely but does anyone know which has had a greater affect on American's humanitarian interests in Hong Kong, was it Blizzard or the NBA? It's hard to tell if I'm seeing Blizzard and gaming show up more because of tech overlap but both seemed to have a huge impact on increased discussion among people around me. It really brought a lot of exposure to people who don't follow the news that closely, ime anyways.

chii 7y ago
blizzard, by drawing attention and banning the HS player, has inadvertently caused their own PR nightmare. If they just left it alone, there would've been less issues, and the media wouldn't be discussing it at all.
- romanovcode 7y ago
  > and the media wouldn't be discussing it at all. But the Chinese government might. And that might be much worse for them.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Unless Activision Blizzard plans to move their HQ to China, having the US government talking about you in a very negative light is likely worse for them.
    - deminature 7y ago
      The playerbase for some of their games is apparently as high as 70% China-based [1]. We can't verify this, because Blizzard doesn't release that information publicly, but if even remotely true, losing access to the Chinese market would be financially devastating. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAlh9l-c7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSAlh9l-c7Q
      - falcolas 7y ago

ajuc 7y ago

Blizzard counts on revenue from China making up for the revenue lost due to censorship. Gamers in the west hope Blizzard is wrong.

zipwitch 7y ago
Gamers in the rest of the world can all do our part to make sure Blizzard is wrong.

seanalltogether 7y ago

The fact that Blizzard is in a position to throw a 'Con' each year shows that their games and lore are way more highly valued then most games companies. Could you imagine fans paying $230 to visit to an EA exclusive convention each year? Not gonna happen with their reputation. Blizzard is at real risk of losing this community they've fostered for the last 20+ years

entropea 7y ago
> Blizzard is at real risk of losing this community they've fostered for the last 20+ years I'm reminded of that image of people in a Call of Duty boycott on Steam, playing Call of Duty. Blizzard will lose some money over the next couple of weeks, but aren't at a real risk of anything. https://kotaku.com/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing-5403286 https://kotaku.com/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-play...
- colmvp 7y ago
  Maybe. Hearthstone has been on a downward trend for the last 1.75 years as evident by their quarterly reports over that time period which state the game has had a decline of active users and revenue. They’ve even started to monetize previously non-monetized product offerings but it didn’t result in the game out-earning previous expansions released in the same time of the year. I doubt the current scandal has helped the numbers recover.
- minimaxir 7y ago
  That Call of Duty meme has long since been discredited. https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-you-posted-the-boycott-modern-warfare-2-steam-group-picture.110009/ https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-you-posted-the-boycott-m...
  - entropea 7y ago
    >Does that mean that only these 19 people of 833 were playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 at the time? Probably not. There are defnitly more people that played it despite being in the group. It could very well be possible that people in the group not in this picture all played Modern Warfare 2 at the time. However, this picture doesn't show it. Not really.

iddqd 7y ago

Best protest is to not attend, offline or online. Ignore the news they share.

lovetocode 7y ago

Blizzard needs some OG leadership to come in and fix their situation. I hate seeing my childhood get ruined.

Razengan 7y ago
Like the Ship of Theseus, I don't think Blizzard is the same company you grew up with any longer.

CivBase 7y ago

IMO, Blizzards actions have been borderline incompetent. I completely understand them not wanting their platform to be used to make political statements. This isn't like the NBA situation where Morey used a private social media account to show support for his private political opiniona. This was a platform owned by Blizzard with a very specific content focus. But banning Blitzchung for any amount of time was just dumb. They have the right to respond that way, but it's still a dumb response. They should have made a public statement following the incident that went something like this: "We encourage players and community members to express themselves. However, our tournament coverage is a platform for Blizzard e-sports content only. Any future use of the platform to express personal political opinions on sensitive subject matter without Blizzard's express conscent will be met with punative action." Follow that up with a description of what that punative action would look like. I can't imagine any backlash to that. Many people would be unhappy, but I doubt there would be protests or letters from congress. Blizzard made a mistake and they are refusing to learn from it. Now they get to deal with the fallout.

javerikr 7y ago
> incompetent
dwoozle 7y ago
No. The Chinese government is using this entire crisis as a way of testing the limits of its power. They wanted to test it in a 0-10 scale but found the needle zoomed up to the right stop, so they adjusted the scale to 0-100 by dialing up their actions to even more extreme. That’s why they’re forcing these companies to bend the knee in public rather than quietly. They didn’t want to just disable the HKLive app, they wanted to see whether they could force Apple’s CEO to write a public mea culpa for them, which he did. You can be certain that a person with a direct line of authority to Xi made it very clear that Blizzard would not be allowed to “tactfully” deal with the situation publicist-style. What you will soon see is the Chinese outrage dialing down as the government gets a good read on the 0-100 number and retreats for the next 30 years to build strategic power while the rest of the world gets distracted by the next Thing.
- 7y ago

slater 7y ago

So, Winnie-the-Pooh outfits for everyone?

Beltiras 7y ago

My son-in-law has lived in China and confronted me about my boycott. His position is that the content in Blizz games is kinda subversive to the authoritarianism practiced by the CCP. No other gaming company has the breadth of socially reformative messaging contained in WoW, Overwatch et.al. Should Blizz perform corporate harakiri by appeasing the angry SJW (not spoken derisively) in the West, the CCP would have no problem shutting down access to Blizz and the population would hardly notice. They would however not be exposed to the gaming content meaning the generational war with culture will be lost. I stood firm and maintained that CCP was now fighting with plutocracy for changes to the culture in the west. An example is Marvel changing a Tibetan male monk to a western woman. His contention is that even that change was handled as well as you could expect. Even choosing the Celts as her culture is a small poke at the Chinese for their oppression of the Tibetans. Making it a woman even more so. I'm still angry at Blizz and thinking about what he said. I will at the very least boycott past the Nov. 7th earnings call to see how deep it runs. He does have a point about the greater good. This might be the wrong target for outrage.

diminoten 7y ago
No he doesn't. Some good deeds don't erase your bad deeds, especially when those bad deeds were done in what now appears to be bad faith.
- Beltiras 7y ago
  I'm still on the fence. I'm still boycotting. I've come around to the position thou that there are redeeming steps Blizz can take.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    You've "come around" to that position? Are you suggesting that the baseline isn't that position? No one is suggesting Blizzard is irredeemable, it's just very unlikely, given Blizzard's past behavior, that they're going to take the necessary steps to fix this. Honestly, what the heck are you even talking about? You sound like someone who is actively trying to misrepresent the situation...

jpetrucc 7y ago

Blizzard used to be my favorite gaming company. I remember when I was much younger dreaming of being able to work there on World of Warcraft. I played a ridiculous amount of WoW/Warcraft 3/Starcraft as a kid, and more recently a decent amount of WoW/Hearthstone/Overwatch. I had been a WoW subscriber for over a decade. WoW's quality has been in decline (IMO) recently in BFA, and I stayed because I still occasionally enjoyed it, but it no longer has the same magic that I remember. WoW Classic brought back some of that nostalgia, but it was short lived for me. BlizzCon last year made it pretty clear that Blizzard has shifted their focus [0]. There is no way they were delusional enough to expect a happy reaction to the Diablo Immortal announcement. It's very clearly targeted at the Chinese market. Their actions in the past month (and year) are very telling - they are no longer the company I used to admire. I've canceled my WoW subscription as of last week, and I've deleted all of their games from my devices. I know that my actions alone/individually don't really have an impact on them, but I can't go on supporting them after the things they've been doing recently. Bellular has a pretty good video breaking down some of this situation as well [1]. It'll be interesting to see how BlizzCon goes this year. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/9tsy49/blizzard_getting_booed_for_the_first_time_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/9tsy49/blizzard_get... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbPrbqE06Y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbPrbqE06Y4

sylk 7y ago
We do this together, you're not the only one. I even disavowed Hearthstone, even though I've played since the open beta. Cast them to the Chinese market, that's what they want the most. I guess that's fine, I just won't give them any more money. It also seems we're not the only two people on NA that are doing this, so relish in the fact that there's many more of us out there, where this finally drew a line.
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
>Their actions in the past month (and year) are very telling - they are no longer the company I used to admire. "Never meet your heroes".

ericol 7y ago

I think that's the ruling party way of things: They usually try to obliterate into particles whoever dares to oppose them. Or whoever crosses their path; or whoever they don't like for whatever reason. Just take a look at the Uyghurs situation. * edited because it seems people where taking offence on I miss using the word Chinese instead of "ruling party", that is actually what I meant.

falcolas 7y ago
How did their idiom go? "We'll grind you up and crush your bones." Sure, it is just an idiom, but it speaks to the thoroughness of their punishments. EDIT: This is a direct, and recent, quote from Xí Jìnpíng when discussing (with foreign leaders) how the Chinese government will treat anyone who tries to split or sew dissent in China.
- cyc116 7y ago
  How does the English idiom goes? "ignorance is bliss" Sure, it's just an idiom, but it definitely sound like it applies to you when you make a racial comment like that.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Is it a racial comment when the leader of a country uses that exact quote to describe how they will deal with anyone who threatens the harmony of China, including the situations that the grandparent was referring to? https://supchina.com/2019/10/15/well-grind-you-up-and-crush-your-bones-tough-talk-from-chinas-leader/ https://supchina.com/2019/10/15/well-grind-you-up-and-crush-...
    - cyc116 7y ago
      Reply to comment from Falcolas: > Is it a racial comment when the leader of a country uses that exact quote to describe how they will deal with anyone who threatens the harmony of China, including the situations that the grandparent was referring to? It is, when your message is an explicit commented on "I think that's the Chinese way of thing:[...]". Please understand that Xi does not speak for all Chinese (hence the protest and conflict) and having an idiom about crushing bones says next to nothing about how a culture or race is. There are plenty of idioms in English about idiots. Does that say anything about English speakers? I highly doubt it. --- Update Pardon my words. I said it too hastily and don't mean to accuse you. I am born in China and have lived 10 years there. I disagree with some of the actions of the current Chinese government but I am also frustrated with people commenting on things without spending enough time to self educate. The link that you have attached seem to be mostly anti-government and (IMO) provides a very limited view on a very complex problem.

cm2012 7y ago

Blizzard is more vulnerable to financial boycotts than other companies: 1) Their product is only used for fun. 2) They have subscription products that aren't used all the time, and thus easy to cancel if someone is reminded they have it. I would be surprised if their next quarters earnings projections didnt take a nose dive.

fareesh 7y ago

At this rate Blizzard will move Blizzcon to China

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
That would be the ultimate capitulation. So I expect it.

rosybox 7y ago

My 11 year old daughter has been looking forward to her first BlizzCon all year. She has been saving her allowance money so she can buy some d.va gear. She's been planning her cosplay, she's working with her mom to sew a d.va dress together based on a skin she likes. Everyday I walk her to school she's telling me her next Overwatch plan. I understand the protests, I'm angry myself at Blizzard's actions, but I'm not about to break her heart over my political opinions. Blizzard isn't going to be the only one hurt by what's happening.

dmix 7y ago
Not everyone has to be a political activist, especially an 11yr old. Life is short and full of competing priorities, I doubt it will get much worse because a father and his daughter didn't protest. I wouldn't worry about it. Hopefully no one harasses those who still decide to go or causes any violence. That never helps anyone.
ulkesh 7y ago
You are a good parent. Thank you. She doesn't deserve to lose out because Blizzard decided that their financial interests in China are more important than ethics and morality. I hope you both have fun there!

deleted 7y ago

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