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The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

135 points by bubmiw 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 7y ago
China is offended by him offering an opinion on something. So, that makes them right? I'm offended by his backpedaling. That makes me right, right? China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants.
- FakeComments 7y ago
  You believe in liberal society. China does not.
- khc 7y ago
  This is more representing the power of social media mob justice than what "China" wants. It's really not that different from how the left or the right boycott a business after any other tweet
  - hw 7y ago
    Not to mention the people in China are pretty nationalistic and are on the side of the government when it comes to the situation in HK, so the response from the people in China and the CBA is not surprising.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    Or how people talk about boycotting stuff from China due to their political issues. Even before the trade war tariffs, there were American consumers that made it a habit to not buy Chinese because of their political stances.
  - o10449366 7y ago
    I disagree. This is exactly what the Chinese government wants. They're able to have this outsized influence on American companies because they've heavily invested in them. Going against the Chinese government means risking a significant piece of your business for many companies - it isn't about the "social media mob" at all.
    - twno1 7y ago
      For reference: Force U.S. airlines remove Taiwan: https://time.com/5348666/airlines-websites-taiwan-china/ https://time.com/5348666/airlines-websites-taiwan-china/ Hide Taiwan emoji flag in Hong Kong: https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-kong/ https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-...
  - supercanuck 7y ago
    Sure it is. One represents free speech in response to market participants making decisions. The other is an authoritarian government shutting down business ties based on one employee opinion. How do people not see the difference in this? On twitter, people are to speak whatever they want and can choose to buy whatever they want. In China. Not so much.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      If the NBA were big in Spain, and the guy had said "Fight for Freedom, Stand with Catalonia", I expect he would have had to apologize too. The government is more involved in China, because the government is more involved with everything in China, but there are few countries in the world where people don't get mad at foreigners wading into touchy political issues.
      - cannadhopefu 7y ago
        > government is more involved with everything in China There lies in the difference. In Spain, it would be the people demanding it. In China, its the authoritative government that is not only demanding but also threatening. Its not quite apples to apples.
        bhy 7y ago
        How do you know that? How many Chinese people have you talked with?
        supercanuck 7y ago
        Because it is not democratically elected.
        bhy 7y ago
        That's not logical. Democratic or not is an unrelated issue. The people can still be patriot on this matter.
  - alisonatwork 7y ago
    This is only superficially true. In China the CPC exercises strict control over what topics are allowed to trend on social media, so what appears to be "mob justice" is actually a carefully curated event. The state media chose to report on this rather than ignore it. The Cyberspace Administration chose to allow this outrage to gain momentum while topics that do not toe the party line are squashed. You cannot really compare the kind of social media "mob justice" people speak of in the west to how things are managed on the Chinese internet.
    - chadcmulligan 7y ago
      likewise any criticism of Chinese policy that occurs on the internet is no doubt being monitored and influenced by an army of Chinese intelligence operatives
      - chadcmulligan 7y ago
        It seems they're downvoting my criticisms :-D
    - Jommi 7y ago
      This is not completely true, depending on what you mean by "trending on social media". I have witness multiple anti-government trending topics on social media in China as well.
- ionforce 7y ago
  You're not a global power.
  - aww_dang 7y ago
    "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?" --Stalin Today the Vatican is still a state. The Catholic church remains influential. The USSR has fallen and the Soviet system has been discredited. The above article would not have been written if the CCP's objections were an effective way to silence western critics. It would not be unreasonable to expect a truly powerful entity to be unconcerned with criticisms from a basketball team's GM. History will tell all. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
    - rumanator 7y ago
      > Today the Vatican is still a state. The Catholic church remains influential. The USSR has fallen and the Soviet system has been discredited. The Russian federation still exists, is controlled by a former KGB operative from the Soviet Union, and is actively waging war in Europe while annexing parts of neighboring countries. And the pope still has zero divisions to oppose that.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want.
  - chronic71819 7y ago
    > 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want. Only in your own thoughts and dreams (for now). You're not allowed to outrage on Weibo or WeChat. Is this correct?
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      I highly doubt they'd object to people angrily repeating the state's position to an American country.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    Most of them are brainwashed by one party politics and one party news in their own country so I am not sure their outrage means anything.
    - age_of_stone 7y ago
      how many Chinese people have you ever talked to before you say "most of them are brainwashed"? If more than 1 billion people are brainwashed in the era of Internet, either 1. it is a huge success of Chinese government or 2. it's not the truth. As we all know, VPN is very popular in China. It's just an easy job to access information out of Great Fire Wall. thinking critically, could you be "brainwashed" by some degree when you assume more than 1 billion people got brainwashed?
      - ekianjo 7y ago
        vPN is very popular in China? In what range? Thousands of users? Hundreds of thousands? Dozens of millions? Hundreds of millions? The scale matters completely for the discussion. And brainwashing does not start with the internet. education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US. Brainwashing works, its not even a remotely disputable claim, we have had two large countries going thru major brainwashing efforts in the 20th century with the Third Reich and the Soviet Union and the results were very convincing in terms of how effective brainwashing can be. Not sure why you would discount brainwashing when China went thru the Cultural Revolution to basically make all dissident voices extinct or irrelevant.
- bhy 7y ago
  If American are offended by the violation of free speech, they should boycott NBA like the Chinese do.
  - summertimelover 7y ago
    Americans can do more than boycott. Americans can use their votes to influence the league. The stadiums are here. Our politicians determine their taxes. The AAU is here. The NCAA too. If the Chinese think they have parity in power over our leagues, this is going to be a very useful object lesson in what's what.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Already done. Except, I'm just a one person boycott, since I don't have to agree with what my government tells me.
- jhanschoo 7y ago
  These incidents remind me of the self-censorship amid threats from militant Muslims back then over depicting Muhammad.
abhigupta 7y ago
"If you want to know who rules over you look at who you are not allowed to criticize"
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  You can criticize China, but then you lose their dollars. So in the end, the thing that rules over you is actually money.
  - maxharris 7y ago
    There's a difference between a who and a what. Also consider: you can ask a PRC official what they think, and you'll get a response. Try to do the same thing to a pile of money? Crickets.
    - traderjane 7y ago
      That's not obvious at all in any place in the world.
  - mieses 7y ago
    China's economic tactic is to convert their manipulated currency into dollars. China is desperate for dollars. No one trades in or trusts RMB.
    - magicsmoke 7y ago
      Except when they need to buy anything from China. Or are all those factories an illusion as well?
      - xenihn 7y ago
        Isn't that conducted in dollars?
      - throwaway1997 7y ago
        I buy from China as part of my job and we usually either buy in Hong Kong dollars, US dollars or RMB and dump the RMB as soon as possible. One of the reasons that HK exists in its current form is to allow us to easily dump RMB.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
saboot 7y ago
I am surprisingly conflicted. My strongest urge is to plainly say, screw them. China is a dictatorship, they are actively stomping out freedoms which I very much believe everyone living person had a right to. If they can't stand hearing the truth, fine, no NBA in China. In the back of my mind, I also recognize that isolation and division breeds more isolation and division. No NBA in China means less Western and Eastern cultural exchange. China doesn't have that kind of influence in our country, yet our American sport is hugely popular there.
- throwaway1777 7y ago
  “China doesn’t have that kind of influence in our country”. Yet here we are discussing them.
  - saboot 7y ago
    What does China produce that we have fans for? I don't see many cultural exports from them in America.
    - twno1 7y ago
      Instead wasting time to build culture influence. They simply bought companies from western and become rule maker. For example, Tencent already bought two popular esport game companies from U.S.(riot game /epic game). Not only for making money, also for ruling esport world. https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...
    - throwaway1777 7y ago
      The point is the Chinese market is so large that “American” cultural exports are often tailored to the Chinese.
- beerandt 7y ago
  Stick with "screw them". The other option plays straight into their The Art of War type strategy. Which is essentially: keep your enemies close and be their friend and milk them for all they're worth while learning their weaknesses then wait until you grow stronger than them and when they're vulnerable, you pounce.
fooey 7y ago
The entire content of the tweet: "Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong"
diego 7y ago
So many misunderstandings around this. For one, in the US we have free speech. That means that you can say anything you want, but you have to accept that you may lose customers for saying it. It doesn't matter if you believe that your customers shouldn't be pissed off. It's the Chinese in this case, but it could be any other relevant group. Second, perhaps because most Americans haven't been to China and cannot read Chinese, they can't really appreciate this situation. Hong Kong is a part of China, and they are in the middle of a transition period from British rule. It's inevitable that they will be incorporated into the country, and it's really too late to try to turn that around. They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, and it is what it is. The rest of China (not just the government) wants them to assimilate, and it will happen. If you live in Hong Kong and you don't like that, really your only reasonable option is to move. It's not a given that the protestors are in the "right" and it's not a given that there is a right side on this. Just misaligned interests.
- khc 7y ago
  > They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, As if this was a choice for people from Hong Kong
  - Jommi 7y ago
    How was it not a choice? HK living standards rocketed when it was the only place for China and international capital to meet. The whole nation prospered from it, and now they are paying this price. Thats what this situation looks like to me unfortunately.
- 99chrisbard 7y ago
  > they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. Hong Kong was always going to return to China in 1997 due to a British-China deal. There's no way for HK to NOT return to China.
  - 7y ago
o10449366 7y ago
US companies are increasingly "owned" by the Chinese government through Chinese investment. None of them are willing to risk the financial backlash that would occur if they spoke out against the Chinese government - so they are willing to censor their own platforms and sacrifice their own stakeholders and users to please them.
- nradov 7y ago
  This is an increasing factor in the US motion picture industry. Major studios are generally unwilling to produce movies that show China or the Chinese Communist Part in a negative light due to the need for financing and distribution.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Studios will absolutely modify screenplays, or else edit the films specifically for the China market to remove offensive or politically sensitive topics. It’s worth a lot of money to them to make a product which sells well in the Chinese market.
    - magicsmoke 7y ago
      Could be an interesting market niche for a studio that makes movies that unapologetically espouses western values and doesn't take any money from nondemocratic funders. See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling out.
      - chronic71819 7y ago
        > See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling out. Unfortunately it's not possible. Nearly everyone on HN would rather invest in a total stock market index fund, simply because it gives better returns. How much different? Approximately 1% more. So there you have it. People will sell out for 1% of their portfolio. Myself included.
        7y ago
TheMagicHorsey 7y ago
Are we all going to become chickenshits to earn Chinese money? The companies and people of the Western world need to stand up to authoritarian China ... or else, in 25 years our kids are all going to be tasting the boot heel of whatever god emperor China has on its throne at that time (probably still Xi). We are all underestimating how authoritarian China is and how much crime the Politburo members get away with.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  indeed, the price of a cheap TV is becoming to high
latch 7y ago
A bit interesting to contrast this to the NFL anthem protests. In both cases, there's been a lot of political pressure and some social media backlash. However in the US, to the best of my knowledge, sponsors have stuck on the "right" side and, according to wiki, have been rewarded for it.
blondie9x 7y ago
Why can't Hong Kong just vote then we can end these protests? The people could vote for a leader who wants closer ties and one who wants more autonomy but let them vote and have a say in the matter. I do not think voting will lead to secession but maybe to a sense of freedom and the ability to influence direction of country.
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  China will not allow real democracy in Hong Kong under any circumstances. They take this so seriously that when Britain proposed democratic self-rule in HK in the 60's (in keeping with the democratization of their other colonies at the time), China said they would invade immediately if that happened, and the idea was scrapped.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    >Britain proposed democratic self-rule in HK in the 60's This is a false narrative originally perpetuated by VJMedia.hk, pro-democracy activists in League of Social Democrat that managed to gain traction on English internet via QZ. The primary sources (FCO40/327 and the Thatcher memo) used to substantiate these claims has nothing to do with democratic reforms but UK seeking HK sovereignty as a self-governing dominion like Singapore (not just democratic reforms) as an alternative to handover because it would stabilize investor fears - the concerns were purely economic. Obviously China would reject this proposal which basically tried to circumvent handover by making HK dejure independent in 1997. The reason why UK/Patten introduced some democratic reforms near handover was a last minute effort to maintain some political and economic influence over the colony. There was never any effort in the 60s to grant HK democracy within the context of Extension of Hong Kong Territory lease - they asked for sovereignty which was never an option - and what little that was given was a last minute geopolitical power play.
- beerandt 7y ago
  You do realize: 1- voting got implemented over there only a few years before the handover. It's a relatively new and fluid concept to them. 2- industries/businesses get to vote. These are increasingly owned by China 3- China maintains veto power for any political candidates If only it were as simple as "just vote"
AFascistWorld 7y ago
He didn't even tweet it, just a like. And the media and west should stop pretending that the people don't like and support the party.
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
What does fighting for freedom and standing with Hong Kong have to do with promoting sport? Why not just shut the fuck to and promote sport? This is how we know some (many?) successful people just got lucky with the birth lottery and generally being in the right places and knowing the right people.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  It doesn't have anything to do with promoting sport, which is why the guy tweeted on his personal account.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    Except that Daryl Morey, as a public figure in his role as general manager of an NBA team doesn’t get much of a distinction between personal and public. Which is why we’re here having this conversation.
99chrisbard 7y ago
Did NBA compare Xi to Winnie the Pooh? Haha. Seriously, China should stop being so authoritative.
tjpnz 7y ago
It's frightening to what degree China is able to censor people living well outside of their jurisdiction.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  Indeed, at what time and place do we decide to draw a line? I feel that time and place is nearly here.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    10 years ago would have been an opportune time, that no one is able to refuse their censorship seems like reasonable proof that they've become too powerful to do anything about.
    - chadcmulligan 7y ago
      so we roll over and just take it?
      - mistermann 7y ago
        That seems like one of many plausibly optimal approaches, but no one is able to see the future. The time for such conversations is long past, and it certainly wasn't me assuring people that this massive experiment will undoubtedly work out just fine.
temp31213 7y ago
And this is how China slowly takes away American's freedom of speech. This is their 'soft' power.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
I don't understand many people's view of the Chinese. This is not the state of China ordering the NBA around, this is an action by their people. And though it is likely that China helped make the people aware of this event, nationist individuals using blatant propaganda to attack people on Twitter is not a problem unique to China.
XPKBandMaidCzun 7y ago
Hong Kong is definitely heading in the direction of complete independence. Thankfully. I agree completely that the angst in HK is caused by outsiders. It has to feel terrible for HK people having their representation grabbed by agents of Beijing. They should apologize and grant universal suffrage to all people born in HK. Most important in this is HK establishing its own military service, intel service, constitution (not just the Basic law oath of fealty to PRC), and UN representation. These are the remaining things HK needs to be treated like any other nation. Since the rule of law is what matters, it will be important that judges and lawyers have adequate time to adapt to the any changes in the legal process after transition is complete. The thing that has yet to be decided is how the legislature in HK will be structured though. Maybe in /r/hongkong they can bring it up. But most important will be China staying out of meddling in Hong Kong's internal affairs. This is about Hong Kong people planning new system separate from PRC. After that is complete PRC has the same right to establish treaties the same way as Japan, USA, etc.
- wei_jok 7y ago
  This post does not represent what HKers involved in the movement want, which is autonomy (as per Basic Law), not independence.
  - XPKBandMaidCzun 7y ago
    You are right in regards to the current movement. In the 5 demands it says, "...implementation of universal suffrage for Legislative Council and Chief Executive elections" Which could feasibly be done within the confines of the basic law. It is true many pro-democratic HKers don't want independence. For some more context for those reading into it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests But I should also be complete and let you know there is a fledgling and growing movement, the so-called "Republic of Cantonia", who believe all Guangdong should be break into its own nation. You can see the flag here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomist_and_secessionist_movements https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomis...
emersonrsantos 7y ago
As South Park brilliantly told us: “You’re gonna have to lower your ideals of freedom if you want to suck on the warm teat of China.”
mrobot 7y ago
I can't read the article. Also I support China and don't care about your sinophobic western chauvinist viewpoints programmed into you by the ruling class controlled media. I heard 100 demonstrators got shot in Iraq. I heard there's a revolution in Haiti despite US meddling. Yet Hong Kong thugs get all the media attention. Chinese censorship is good, actually, while censorship in the US is getting worse and is bad. Also it's easy to get around and Chinese people don't care much about it. This is because China is under constant threat from imperialism and outside meddling. The US media is carefully controlled and wants you to support imperialism and its exploitation of the world. China is definitely not an imperialist country and is not coming for you. The Chinese revolution improved the life expectancy of everyone by 42 years. China built itself up without slavery, genocide, and colonialism like the US. Long live the PRC and i wish it good relations with the US. I am glad China is independent and not to be messed with anymore after so much humiliation and colonial exploitation. I support Ferguson not Hong Kong. Thank you.
- whateveracct 7y ago
  Jeezy petes
  - mieses 7y ago
    they need to up their game. that was downright silly.
- Hasknewbie 7y ago
  "I can't read the article" "Chinese censorship is good, actually" "Also it's easy to get around" ...Is this a parody account?
mytailorisrich 7y ago
It would be interesting to understand why an American basketball team thought it would be a good idea to make a public political statement, on a foreign issue that does not concern them, when their (main?) sponsors are apparently from the country they decided to effectively criticise... It is puzzling. I suspect this might just be their Twitter guy who screwed up, and might now be out of a job.
jsgo 7y ago
While I'm not a fan of how the NBA is handling this, I kind of lay the whole thing on their doorstep. Political commentary is not new in the NBA. LeBron was told (indirectly) on Fox News to "Shut up and dribble" as an example. So if China/Hong Kong was an untouchable topic as it now appears to be, why not send out communications to teams that people aren't to comment on it? Does that stop someone from doing so? Not really, but in this particular case he walked it back and the NBA now has to be incredibly defensive. This seems like it could've been avoided so it is an unforced error on their part.

135 points by bubmiw 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

China is offended by him offering an opinion on something. So, that makes them right? I'm offended by his backpedaling. That makes me right, right? China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants.

FakeComments 7y ago
You believe in liberal society. China does not.
khc 7y ago
This is more representing the power of social media mob justice than what "China" wants. It's really not that different from how the left or the right boycott a business after any other tweet
- hw 7y ago
  Not to mention the people in China are pretty nationalistic and are on the side of the government when it comes to the situation in HK, so the response from the people in China and the CBA is not surprising.
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  Or how people talk about boycotting stuff from China due to their political issues. Even before the trade war tariffs, there were American consumers that made it a habit to not buy Chinese because of their political stances.
- o10449366 7y ago
  I disagree. This is exactly what the Chinese government wants. They're able to have this outsized influence on American companies because they've heavily invested in them. Going against the Chinese government means risking a significant piece of your business for many companies - it isn't about the "social media mob" at all.
  - twno1 7y ago
    For reference: Force U.S. airlines remove Taiwan: https://time.com/5348666/airlines-websites-taiwan-china/ https://time.com/5348666/airlines-websites-taiwan-china/ Hide Taiwan emoji flag in Hong Kong: https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-kong/ https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-...
- supercanuck 7y ago
  Sure it is. One represents free speech in response to market participants making decisions. The other is an authoritarian government shutting down business ties based on one employee opinion. How do people not see the difference in this? On twitter, people are to speak whatever they want and can choose to buy whatever they want. In China. Not so much.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    If the NBA were big in Spain, and the guy had said "Fight for Freedom, Stand with Catalonia", I expect he would have had to apologize too. The government is more involved in China, because the government is more involved with everything in China, but there are few countries in the world where people don't get mad at foreigners wading into touchy political issues.
    - cannadhopefu 7y ago
      > government is more involved with everything in China There lies in the difference. In Spain, it would be the people demanding it. In China, its the authoritative government that is not only demanding but also threatening. Its not quite apples to apples.
      - bhy 7y ago
        How do you know that? How many Chinese people have you talked with?
        supercanuck 7y ago
        Because it is not democratically elected.
        bhy 7y ago
        That's not logical. Democratic or not is an unrelated issue. The people can still be patriot on this matter.
- alisonatwork 7y ago
  This is only superficially true. In China the CPC exercises strict control over what topics are allowed to trend on social media, so what appears to be "mob justice" is actually a carefully curated event. The state media chose to report on this rather than ignore it. The Cyberspace Administration chose to allow this outrage to gain momentum while topics that do not toe the party line are squashed. You cannot really compare the kind of social media "mob justice" people speak of in the west to how things are managed on the Chinese internet.
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    likewise any criticism of Chinese policy that occurs on the internet is no doubt being monitored and influenced by an army of Chinese intelligence operatives
    - chadcmulligan 7y ago
      It seems they're downvoting my criticisms :-D
  - Jommi 7y ago
    This is not completely true, depending on what you mean by "trending on social media". I have witness multiple anti-government trending topics on social media in China as well.
ionforce 7y ago
You're not a global power.
- aww_dang 7y ago
  "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?" --Stalin Today the Vatican is still a state. The Catholic church remains influential. The USSR has fallen and the Soviet system has been discredited. The above article would not have been written if the CCP's objections were an effective way to silence western critics. It would not be unreasonable to expect a truly powerful entity to be unconcerned with criticisms from a basketball team's GM. History will tell all. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
  - rumanator 7y ago
    > Today the Vatican is still a state. The Catholic church remains influential. The USSR has fallen and the Soviet system has been discredited. The Russian federation still exists, is controlled by a former KGB operative from the Soviet Union, and is actively waging war in Europe while annexing parts of neighboring countries. And the pope still has zero divisions to oppose that.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
>China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want.
- chronic71819 7y ago
  > 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want. Only in your own thoughts and dreams (for now). You're not allowed to outrage on Weibo or WeChat. Is this correct?
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    I highly doubt they'd object to people angrily repeating the state's position to an American country.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Most of them are brainwashed by one party politics and one party news in their own country so I am not sure their outrage means anything.
  - age_of_stone 7y ago
    how many Chinese people have you ever talked to before you say "most of them are brainwashed"? If more than 1 billion people are brainwashed in the era of Internet, either 1. it is a huge success of Chinese government or 2. it's not the truth. As we all know, VPN is very popular in China. It's just an easy job to access information out of Great Fire Wall. thinking critically, could you be "brainwashed" by some degree when you assume more than 1 billion people got brainwashed?
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      vPN is very popular in China? In what range? Thousands of users? Hundreds of thousands? Dozens of millions? Hundreds of millions? The scale matters completely for the discussion. And brainwashing does not start with the internet. education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US. Brainwashing works, its not even a remotely disputable claim, we have had two large countries going thru major brainwashing efforts in the 20th century with the Third Reich and the Soviet Union and the results were very convincing in terms of how effective brainwashing can be. Not sure why you would discount brainwashing when China went thru the Cultural Revolution to basically make all dissident voices extinct or irrelevant.
bhy 7y ago
If American are offended by the violation of free speech, they should boycott NBA like the Chinese do.
- summertimelover 7y ago
  Americans can do more than boycott. Americans can use their votes to influence the league. The stadiums are here. Our politicians determine their taxes. The AAU is here. The NCAA too. If the Chinese think they have parity in power over our leagues, this is going to be a very useful object lesson in what's what.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Already done. Except, I'm just a one person boycott, since I don't have to agree with what my government tells me.
jhanschoo 7y ago
These incidents remind me of the self-censorship amid threats from militant Muslims back then over depicting Muhammad.

abhigupta 7y ago

"If you want to know who rules over you look at who you are not allowed to criticize"

magicsmoke 7y ago
You can criticize China, but then you lose their dollars. So in the end, the thing that rules over you is actually money.
- maxharris 7y ago
  There's a difference between a who and a what. Also consider: you can ask a PRC official what they think, and you'll get a response. Try to do the same thing to a pile of money? Crickets.
  - traderjane 7y ago
    That's not obvious at all in any place in the world.
- mieses 7y ago
  China's economic tactic is to convert their manipulated currency into dollars. China is desperate for dollars. No one trades in or trusts RMB.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    Except when they need to buy anything from China. Or are all those factories an illusion as well?
    - xenihn 7y ago
      Isn't that conducted in dollars?
    - throwaway1997 7y ago
      I buy from China as part of my job and we usually either buy in Hong Kong dollars, US dollars or RMB and dump the RMB as soon as possible. One of the reasons that HK exists in its current form is to allow us to easily dump RMB.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

saboot 7y ago

I am surprisingly conflicted. My strongest urge is to plainly say, screw them. China is a dictatorship, they are actively stomping out freedoms which I very much believe everyone living person had a right to. If they can't stand hearing the truth, fine, no NBA in China. In the back of my mind, I also recognize that isolation and division breeds more isolation and division. No NBA in China means less Western and Eastern cultural exchange. China doesn't have that kind of influence in our country, yet our American sport is hugely popular there.

throwaway1777 7y ago
“China doesn’t have that kind of influence in our country”. Yet here we are discussing them.
- saboot 7y ago
  What does China produce that we have fans for? I don't see many cultural exports from them in America.
  - twno1 7y ago
    Instead wasting time to build culture influence. They simply bought companies from western and become rule maker. For example, Tencent already bought two popular esport game companies from U.S.(riot game /epic game). Not only for making money, also for ruling esport world. https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...
  - throwaway1777 7y ago
    The point is the Chinese market is so large that “American” cultural exports are often tailored to the Chinese.
beerandt 7y ago
Stick with "screw them". The other option plays straight into their The Art of War type strategy. Which is essentially: keep your enemies close and be their friend and milk them for all they're worth while learning their weaknesses then wait until you grow stronger than them and when they're vulnerable, you pounce.

fooey 7y ago

The entire content of the tweet: "Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong"

diego 7y ago

So many misunderstandings around this. For one, in the US we have free speech. That means that you can say anything you want, but you have to accept that you may lose customers for saying it. It doesn't matter if you believe that your customers shouldn't be pissed off. It's the Chinese in this case, but it could be any other relevant group. Second, perhaps because most Americans haven't been to China and cannot read Chinese, they can't really appreciate this situation. Hong Kong is a part of China, and they are in the middle of a transition period from British rule. It's inevitable that they will be incorporated into the country, and it's really too late to try to turn that around. They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, and it is what it is. The rest of China (not just the government) wants them to assimilate, and it will happen. If you live in Hong Kong and you don't like that, really your only reasonable option is to move. It's not a given that the protestors are in the "right" and it's not a given that there is a right side on this. Just misaligned interests.

khc 7y ago
> They could have tried to stay under British rule, but they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. The gamble did not pay off, As if this was a choice for people from Hong Kong
- Jommi 7y ago
  How was it not a choice? HK living standards rocketed when it was the only place for China and international capital to meet. The whole nation prospered from it, and now they are paying this price. Thats what this situation looks like to me unfortunately.
99chrisbard 7y ago
> they gambled on the fact that they expected a very different future for China. Hong Kong was always going to return to China in 1997 due to a British-China deal. There's no way for HK to NOT return to China.
- 7y ago

o10449366 7y ago

US companies are increasingly "owned" by the Chinese government through Chinese investment. None of them are willing to risk the financial backlash that would occur if they spoke out against the Chinese government - so they are willing to censor their own platforms and sacrifice their own stakeholders and users to please them.

nradov 7y ago
This is an increasing factor in the US motion picture industry. Major studios are generally unwilling to produce movies that show China or the Chinese Communist Part in a negative light due to the need for financing and distribution.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Studios will absolutely modify screenplays, or else edit the films specifically for the China market to remove offensive or politically sensitive topics. It’s worth a lot of money to them to make a product which sells well in the Chinese market.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    Could be an interesting market niche for a studio that makes movies that unapologetically espouses western values and doesn't take any money from nondemocratic funders. See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling out.
    - chronic71819 7y ago
      > See if it's possible to earn a profit without selling out. Unfortunately it's not possible. Nearly everyone on HN would rather invest in a total stock market index fund, simply because it gives better returns. How much different? Approximately 1% more. So there you have it. People will sell out for 1% of their portfolio. Myself included.
      - 7y ago

TheMagicHorsey 7y ago

Are we all going to become chickenshits to earn Chinese money? The companies and people of the Western world need to stand up to authoritarian China ... or else, in 25 years our kids are all going to be tasting the boot heel of whatever god emperor China has on its throne at that time (probably still Xi). We are all underestimating how authoritarian China is and how much crime the Politburo members get away with.

chadcmulligan 7y ago
indeed, the price of a cheap TV is becoming to high

latch 7y ago

A bit interesting to contrast this to the NFL anthem protests. In both cases, there's been a lot of political pressure and some social media backlash. However in the US, to the best of my knowledge, sponsors have stuck on the "right" side and, according to wiki, have been rewarded for it.

blondie9x 7y ago

Why can't Hong Kong just vote then we can end these protests? The people could vote for a leader who wants closer ties and one who wants more autonomy but let them vote and have a say in the matter. I do not think voting will lead to secession but maybe to a sense of freedom and the ability to influence direction of country.

Analemma_ 7y ago
China will not allow real democracy in Hong Kong under any circumstances. They take this so seriously that when Britain proposed democratic self-rule in HK in the 60's (in keeping with the democratization of their other colonies at the time), China said they would invade immediately if that happened, and the idea was scrapped.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  >Britain proposed democratic self-rule in HK in the 60's This is a false narrative originally perpetuated by VJMedia.hk, pro-democracy activists in League of Social Democrat that managed to gain traction on English internet via QZ. The primary sources (FCO40/327 and the Thatcher memo) used to substantiate these claims has nothing to do with democratic reforms but UK seeking HK sovereignty as a self-governing dominion like Singapore (not just democratic reforms) as an alternative to handover because it would stabilize investor fears - the concerns were purely economic. Obviously China would reject this proposal which basically tried to circumvent handover by making HK dejure independent in 1997. The reason why UK/Patten introduced some democratic reforms near handover was a last minute effort to maintain some political and economic influence over the colony. There was never any effort in the 60s to grant HK democracy within the context of Extension of Hong Kong Territory lease - they asked for sovereignty which was never an option - and what little that was given was a last minute geopolitical power play.
beerandt 7y ago
You do realize: 1- voting got implemented over there only a few years before the handover. It's a relatively new and fluid concept to them. 2- industries/businesses get to vote. These are increasingly owned by China 3- China maintains veto power for any political candidates If only it were as simple as "just vote"

AFascistWorld 7y ago

He didn't even tweet it, just a like. And the media and west should stop pretending that the people don't like and support the party.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

What does fighting for freedom and standing with Hong Kong have to do with promoting sport? Why not just shut the fuck to and promote sport? This is how we know some (many?) successful people just got lucky with the birth lottery and generally being in the right places and knowing the right people.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
It doesn't have anything to do with promoting sport, which is why the guy tweeted on his personal account.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  Except that Daryl Morey, as a public figure in his role as general manager of an NBA team doesn’t get much of a distinction between personal and public. Which is why we’re here having this conversation.

99chrisbard 7y ago

Did NBA compare Xi to Winnie the Pooh? Haha. Seriously, China should stop being so authoritative.

tjpnz 7y ago

It's frightening to what degree China is able to censor people living well outside of their jurisdiction.

chadcmulligan 7y ago
Indeed, at what time and place do we decide to draw a line? I feel that time and place is nearly here.
- mistermann 7y ago
  10 years ago would have been an opportune time, that no one is able to refuse their censorship seems like reasonable proof that they've become too powerful to do anything about.
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    so we roll over and just take it?
    - mistermann 7y ago
      That seems like one of many plausibly optimal approaches, but no one is able to see the future. The time for such conversations is long past, and it certainly wasn't me assuring people that this massive experiment will undoubtedly work out just fine.

temp31213 7y ago

And this is how China slowly takes away American's freedom of speech. This is their 'soft' power.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

I don't understand many people's view of the Chinese. This is not the state of China ordering the NBA around, this is an action by their people. And though it is likely that China helped make the people aware of this event, nationist individuals using blatant propaganda to attack people on Twitter is not a problem unique to China.

XPKBandMaidCzun 7y ago

Hong Kong is definitely heading in the direction of complete independence. Thankfully. I agree completely that the angst in HK is caused by outsiders. It has to feel terrible for HK people having their representation grabbed by agents of Beijing. They should apologize and grant universal suffrage to all people born in HK. Most important in this is HK establishing its own military service, intel service, constitution (not just the Basic law oath of fealty to PRC), and UN representation. These are the remaining things HK needs to be treated like any other nation. Since the rule of law is what matters, it will be important that judges and lawyers have adequate time to adapt to the any changes in the legal process after transition is complete. The thing that has yet to be decided is how the legislature in HK will be structured though. Maybe in /r/hongkong they can bring it up. But most important will be China staying out of meddling in Hong Kong's internal affairs. This is about Hong Kong people planning new system separate from PRC. After that is complete PRC has the same right to establish treaties the same way as Japan, USA, etc.

wei_jok 7y ago
This post does not represent what HKers involved in the movement want, which is autonomy (as per Basic Law), not independence.
- XPKBandMaidCzun 7y ago
  You are right in regards to the current movement. In the 5 demands it says, "...implementation of universal suffrage for Legislative Council and Chief Executive elections" Which could feasibly be done within the confines of the basic law. It is true many pro-democratic HKers don't want independence. For some more context for those reading into it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests But I should also be complete and let you know there is a fledgling and growing movement, the so-called "Republic of Cantonia", who believe all Guangdong should be break into its own nation. You can see the flag here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomist_and_secessionist_movements https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_active_autonomis...

emersonrsantos 7y ago

As South Park brilliantly told us: “You’re gonna have to lower your ideals of freedom if you want to suck on the warm teat of China.”

mrobot 7y ago

I can't read the article. Also I support China and don't care about your sinophobic western chauvinist viewpoints programmed into you by the ruling class controlled media. I heard 100 demonstrators got shot in Iraq. I heard there's a revolution in Haiti despite US meddling. Yet Hong Kong thugs get all the media attention. Chinese censorship is good, actually, while censorship in the US is getting worse and is bad. Also it's easy to get around and Chinese people don't care much about it. This is because China is under constant threat from imperialism and outside meddling. The US media is carefully controlled and wants you to support imperialism and its exploitation of the world. China is definitely not an imperialist country and is not coming for you. The Chinese revolution improved the life expectancy of everyone by 42 years. China built itself up without slavery, genocide, and colonialism like the US. Long live the PRC and i wish it good relations with the US. I am glad China is independent and not to be messed with anymore after so much humiliation and colonial exploitation. I support Ferguson not Hong Kong. Thank you.

whateveracct 7y ago
Jeezy petes
- mieses 7y ago
  they need to up their game. that was downright silly.
Hasknewbie 7y ago
"I can't read the article" "Chinese censorship is good, actually" "Also it's easy to get around" ...Is this a parody account?

mytailorisrich 7y ago

It would be interesting to understand why an American basketball team thought it would be a good idea to make a public political statement, on a foreign issue that does not concern them, when their (main?) sponsors are apparently from the country they decided to effectively criticise... It is puzzling. I suspect this might just be their Twitter guy who screwed up, and might now be out of a job.

jsgo 7y ago

While I'm not a fan of how the NBA is handling this, I kind of lay the whole thing on their doorstep. Political commentary is not new in the NBA. LeBron was told (indirectly) on Fox News to "Shut up and dribble" as an example. So if China/Hong Kong was an untouchable topic as it now appears to be, why not send out communications to teams that people aren't to comment on it? Does that stop someone from doing so? Not really, but in this particular case he walked it back and the NBA now has to be incredibly defensive. This seems like it could've been avoided so it is an unforced error on their part.