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We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too
- hirako2000 7y agoWe are all full of fears, except those who are blind to the inevitable consequences of their disconsidered acts against nature.
- onion2k 7y agoPeople are rarely actually blind to the consequences of their actions. Most people know exactly what they're doing, especially if they're not working alone. If someone is doing something you believe is bad it's because they have prioritised something else (usually, but not always, personal gain).
- cm2187 7y agoNot just personal gain. The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. If it has an impact on the climate it is regrettable and should be mitigated as possible, but it is still a major net positive.
- onion2k 7y agoThe benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. While it's true that workers have better and easier lives now than they have had in the past, I don't believe many early entrepreneurs pushed for industrialization for the societal benefits. They did it because those changes made them massive great piles of cash. If your workers are healthier, better educated, and don't hate going to work so much the business benefits far more than the workers do individually. Better conditions, health, etc are a side effect of industrialization. They were never the goal. When you see HR making out something is a benefit for the workers you can be fairly sure the management bought in because it will also improve the bottom line in some measurable way.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoI've noticed this is a general bait-and-switch our civilization makes about the economy, to which we're all exposed since childhood. As a kid you're led to believe that various careers have value because of nice benefits to society they create. Maybe you wanted to become a pilot, because you read that pilots fly planes that carry people and passengers to the places they need to be, and those pilots get to enjoy being up there with the birds and all. Then you become a pilot, and you learn that it was all a lie. The airline doesn't care about people or freight, they care about numbers in a spreadsheet, and it just so happens they fly planes to make those numbers grow. As a pilot, you're not enjoying freedom of flying and being with the birds, you're operating a semi-automated machine according to a checklist, and do what the airline tells you to do so that their numbers go up. People? Freight? Them needing to be elsewhere? Nobody cares about that. One of the saddest discovery in my life was the realization that a similar thing is the case with all careers. Every thing that's valuable to people, once it gets scaled up and incorporated into the economy, suddenly loses all its meaning, and becomes driven primarily by considerations of profit. I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad thing. Maybe it's inevitable. But I do know that nobody told me as a kid that society uses money and markets as a proxy for decision making purposes, and we assume that making money is the best indicator that you're doing good through whatever it is that you're doing.
- kmlx 7y agothe only thing that really worries me is humanity going back to pre-modern technology levels, this time with full-on communism added for good measure, all in the name of climate protection. otherwise i find climate change to be something that prepares us for colonising other places: planets and climates change; 300 million years ago Venus was the place to be, today it's Earth, tomorrow it will be the outer planets, specifically their satellites. we weren't really aware of these changes, especially their magnitudes. climate change brought it all out. it's up to us to learn from it so that we can control it. especially for the moment when we will unshackle ourselves from this solar system. yes, i am extremely optimistic about the human race.
- pyrale 7y ago"It's up to us to learn from it so we can control it" We do control climate change. What we do not control today is our society and our ability to enact political choices that would change our course.
- kmlx 7y ago> We do control climate change. Let me make this very clear: we do not control climate change.
- trabant00 7y agoReading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.
- grinsekatze 7y agoThis is directed at all non-indigenous people. We all do have connections to what is happening in the Amazon. Our way of life is part of the problem.
- pyrale 7y agoEastern Europe is way past the point of consuming ressources that can be renewed. Europe as a whole is also currently signing a trade deal with south american countries, and eastern europe is going to benefit from it. From an eastern european point of view, it is easy to focus on western europe and see oneself as disadvantaged, but if you count ressources consumed the picture is very different.
- bogdanCn 7y agoEastern Europe has similar problems , in Romania, huge areas have been deforestet by german or austrian bussinesses with no consideration whatsoever. A big part of the problem is local corruption and a blind eye to all that comes from the west
- propater 7y ago
- cm2187 7y agoI am not sure that many Brazilian farmers are reading the Guardian. But if it can help the editor’s ego...
- fiblye 7y agoBrazil exports loads of food. Not buying meats from Brazil (not so common in Western countries, though) is one of the most effective ways to change the situation.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoIndeed. Just eat meat that's been produced locally. It's not difficult. It is, however, more expensive. If it's too expensive, perhaps consider the option that you're eating too much of it.
- Angostura 7y agoI'm not sure the Guardian editor is reading you commnent either, so why are you posting? The answer is that articles like this may inform other influencers. Such as those who consume Brazilian products.
- cm2187 7y agoI am not trying to change the behaviour of the Guardian, merely pointing at its virtu signalling.
- glogla 7y agoDoes "Virtue signalling" count as alt-right dog whistle? It should, based on usage.
- ben_w 7y agoDog-whistle? No, but I agree with the implicit point that the use of the phrase “virtue signalling” as an insult is itself virtue signalling, specifically signalling a dislike of things generally associated with the American left.
- furioushatter 7y agowe gotta stop using palm oil, that's gonna be a challenge but I'm more conscious now on product that contain it and try to do my part from where I'm at cause for sure if be volunteering to fight the fire if I was there.
- rnabel 7y agoI would recommend reading this article by The Guardian on palm oil: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/19/palm-oil-ingredient-biscuits-shampoo-environmental https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/19/palm-oil-ingred... (It is also available in podcast form) From the article: > Most importantly, it gives the highest yield per acre of any oilseed crop – almost five times as much oil per acre as rapeseed, almost six times as much as sunflower and more than eight times as much as soybeans. Boycotts of palm oil will only lead to its replacement by other crops needing far more farmland and likely more deforestation.
- aitchnyu 7y agoSo what would reduce demand for palm oil from rainforests?
- CalRobert 7y agoThe tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long, long way. You could hire an EV for a weekend excursion or take a slow, internet-connected ship to travel for an overseas holiday. I don't think living that way sounds especially terrible, to be honest. Also, make 3 months' vacation the minimum. Turn off Slack at 5 PM. We have so much material crap it's hard to fathom, but many people are horribly starved of time. If I had more time I know I'd cook more and work in the garden more instead of ordering takeaway. A huge amount of human endeavour is spent helping a relatively few rich people suck a bit more of the Earth before it implodes.
- jamesb93 7y agoNot even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoYes, but like parent said, we're starved of time. I would love to bike or take public transport to work but that's over an hour of commute vs 20-25 minutes by car and I don't live in the middle of nowhere but in a medium sized European city. The problem is the employers who move to the sticks, far away from the cties, where office space is cheapest and assume their workers can afford cars and should commute. Not only that but they actively fight against remote work saying it destroys team effort. One huge step in the right direction would be governments incentivizing employers to accept remote work for office workers who's jobs are 100% digital. This way we won't all be clogging the streets at rush hour making commutes easier on those who have to drive. Heck, one friend of mine broke his leg skiing and his company, instead of allowing him to work remote, prefered to pay his taxi fares to and from work for 2 months saying WE DON'T DO REMOTE!. And the company is a top EV supplier that loves to boast how green they're making the world. You can't make this stuff up.
- nf8nnfufuu 7y agoThey are right to be full of fear. Their way of living will very likely be destroyed. I doubt the rest of the world will even notice much. However, maybe to protect the Amazonas, the thing to do is to give the indigenous people guns. Who else is going to prevent deforestation? The government seems to be unwilling to protect the rain forest. The indigenous people claim they want to protect it. Give them guns!
- pelasaco 7y agoThey have guns already. How do you stop the wild fire with a gun? shooting it?
- darepublic 7y agoSo what should be done? Boycott Brazilian products? Stop eating meat? Stop eating meat specifically if it comes from Brazil?
- pelasaco 7y agoThat's the wrong thing to do. First the biggest issue is in Bolivia. Second Raoni is a politician, doing his lobby. To assume that somebody has good intentions just because his origins, is wrong. Third, China is biggest consumer from Products from that region. The best thing to do wold be first to help to stop the wild fires.
- rajlego 7y agoNot eating meat is reasonable for people in most first world countries. It would be harder to boycott Brazilian products though.
- _-o-_ 7y agoSend in UN troops.
- JohnClark1337 7y agoThat's nice