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Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

361 points by miles 7y ago

rolph 7y ago
>>"Technically, it is possible to remove the microcontroller chip from the original battery and carefully solder it into the new battery you’re swapping in, restoring the Battery Health feature—but the procedure isn’t for the faint of heart, and it’s an unreasonable requirement for any repair, much less something as simple as a battery swap."<< it seems a razor and a low wattage solder iron will fix it. and im guessing a few little guys may end up fattening thier wallets this way. Im wondering how apple might catch the play, and how they would change the hardware so a chip transplant is no longer a workaround.
- Niksko 7y ago
  I wonder if micro fluctuations in battery output voltage and current (due to manufacturing variations) could be used to 'fingerprint' a battery. Encrypted transmission of this fingerprint between the battery chip and the OS = invalidate the battery if the fingerprint suddenly changes.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    I imagine that's not feasible when you consider battery decay.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  The chip could keep encryption keys in RAM (since it’s always powered by the battery and there’s always gonna be enough juice in there to power it given its tiny power consumption) and if the chip loses power (due to being desoldered) the keys are lost preventing the phone from authenticating it.
  - buildzr 7y ago
    Great, leave the device unplugged for a few weeks and any residual charge will drop off enough to invalidate your battery keys. That'd be a shit show.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      If the battery voltage drops that low, the battery will never charge again anyway.
      - buildzr 7y ago
        I mean, I hope you're leaving some distance between your RAM and the cutoff.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    Clip bypass battery to the power/gnd pins while desoldering and resoldering. Read RAM image before desoldering. Write image to RAM after resoldering. For that matter, read RAM image from old battery and write it to new battery, no soldering required. Or MITM the connection between phone and battery, and the bypass device can pass-through battery health information while intercepting and responding to authentication-related signals. You will never be able to enforce hardware security indefinitely against an attacker with device-in-possession.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      What if the chip uses asymmetric cryptography for authentication with a private key stored in it, impossible to recover, just like a credit card? In this case it can’t be spoofed by intercepting the comma between the phone & chip, private key can’t be extracted, etc. Sure, a bypass battery is possible. The point here isn’t 100% security (which as you say is impossible), it’s to make the operation difficult enough that most give up or have to charge more than an official battery replacement.
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        Impossible? Dissolve the chip casing in fuming nitric acid and use probe needles. The official pins are not the only way to interface with the silicon, when you have device-in-possession. Use a timing attack. Find a collision. It is very likely that the same private key is locked up inside every chip, and one reverse-engineer, probing one of them once, can compromise the key for all of the chips manufactured before their publication date, and probably would last until the OEM ran out of those chips, and then deprecated the key after some time with a software patch. The one-time cost would be worth it for any manufacturer of off-brand batteries. The battery controller chip is not going to be an impenetrable security vault, in any case. The cost of parts is a factor, even for Apple. Asymmetric keys don't work if the attacker is in possession of the private key, no matter how many padlocked boxes you put it in. The attacker has the key, and getting it out in usable form is a matter of time, not possibilities.
        7y ago
msie 7y ago
Goddammit Apple! You keep on finding new reasons for me to hate you! I want names! Who’s responsible for this crap?!?
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  This seems like it's pretty similar to the old reasons. The people responsible are the people who keep buying their locked-down crap.
GhostVII 7y ago
To be clear, you can replace the battery with whatever battery you want, it will just show a message saying it can't be verified as an Apple battery. The only user impact is being unable to see battery health. I don't even think I can see my battery health on my Android so I don't see it as a big deal, but definitely not great if they are hiding this functionality for no reason.
- sjwright 7y ago
  It won’t be for no reason. If their battery health tightly calibrated to report on Apple’s OEM battery, it could provide misleading information about third-party batteries. My guess is that Apple is bored of dealing with complaints about devices which have been modified by third parties.
  - sschueller 7y ago
    Well, if they made the batteries easily replaceable without the device having to go to service they would not have this many issues. Of course their replacement batteries would need to be reasonably priced...
    - addicted 7y ago
      Or available.
    - endorphone 7y ago
      Anecdotes are worthless, but in the past half decade the only people I know who have successfully replaced a smartphone or pad battery have been Apple device owners. Apple has an easy, clear, successful program for replacing batteries, and most find the pricing entirely reasonable. A friend did buy a Nexus 6P battery replacement kit from Amazon, but the process was so byzantine, and no shop was willing to do it, that they just ended up getting a new device. I did like back in the day when I could pop the back off my Samsung Galaxy and replace the battery, but those days are gone and Apple is the only company that has any sort of concerted program to keep their older devices operating.
soganess 7y ago
EDIT: Per Betelgeuse90 comment below, my characterization of the situation was incorrect. Apple's behavior is anti-competitive. I am leaving my original comment here for posterity. Original comment: I love jumping on the apple hate train as much as the next person, but this is not a valid reason to do so. Depending on the aftermarket battery, those reported values could be completely wrong / misleading to the user. If you are looking for proof, just buy a random battery off amazon for your computer and tell me how accurate the current reported charge is. Plus, I would like to know if a used device I buy has a non-OEM battery. As long as it stays in that settings screen and doesn't turn into a consistent annoying pop-up (or doesn't stop the user from upgrading, as was the case with the home button debacle of days passed) I don't think this deserves the outrage. Also, the title is a bit misleading. Nothing is being locked, the device functions as it should. An ideal solution would be that apple allows third party battery manufacturers to go through a certification process so apple could ensure quality control. Fat chance in you-know-what apple would ever do that.
- Betelgeuse90 7y ago
  To be fair, you'll get the "service battery" message even if you place an original Apple battery in the iPhone. A used device that was serviced perfectly well but not by Apple will still display this message. All this means is that the battery wasn't replaced by Apple themselves.
  - soganess 7y ago
    Good catch! I will adjust my original message with an edit. That is straight up anti-competitive. Egg on my face for giving apple the benefit of the doubt.
    - Betelgeuse90 7y ago
      To be even more fair... ;) We don't know what Apple does when they replace batteries for customers. Maybe there's a calibration process or something of the sort. After all they're reporting battery health, which nobody else does, and that's notoriously difficult to get right. I think there's still room for giving the benefit of the doubt. We're just assuming that all they do is plop a battery with an Apple logo on it and call it a day, but we don't know that.
zepto 7y ago
iFixit is misrepresenting Apple to market its tool sales business. This is what they do.
- moate 7y ago
  Care to set the record straight? What's actually going on if not what they're presenting? They're making an assumption about intent. Unless you can prove you're part of the Apple team responsible for this hardware behavior, you're just going to be doing the same.
  - zepto 7y ago
    The batteries are not locked, and off-brand replacements work perfectly. There is no impediment whatsoever to repair here. iFixit are therefore making a misstatement. The only thing Apple is doing is not making assessments about the condition of off-brand replacements. This is pretty obvious and expected behavior. iFixit are using a misrepresentation of this to generate publicity using the same narrative as they always do.
    - moate 7y ago
      But they're doing this with their own branded replacements. If I put an actual apple battery into my iPhone but don't do it through apple's store, this behavior is what happens. This is akin to my check engine light always being on whenever any mechanic makes repairs to my car. Yes, Kia is "protecting themselves from liability of damages by 3rd party behavior" but they're also creating a UX problem for me. As the end user: this is stupid, and I don't like it, and it seems like a choice not a need on the company's part.
      - zepto 7y ago
        Batteries have a relatively short shelf life, so even an original apple branded battery can be a scam if it’s old stock. I have personally run into this when I replaced a battery myself back in the iPhone 4 era.
eridius 7y ago
I'm willing to bet Apple has seen counterfeit batteries that claim to be Apple batteries and this is a reaction to that. The other stuff this article claims was designed to stop third-party repairs, such as the stuff to do with Touch ID, was actually security-related (basically, the device couldn't trust Touch ID anymore after the repair). I hadn't heard about True Tone disabling before, but that's probably because AIUI each device's screen is individually calibrated in the factory, and if you swap the screen yourself then you've lost that calibration.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  > I'm willing to bet Apple has seen counterfeit batteries that claim to be Apple batteries and this is a reaction to that. People are still going to send Apple their phone and say, "why is my phone displaying this message?", which support is going to have to deal with. This isn't going to all the sudden save Apple money on support.
  - eridius 7y ago
    No but it's going to prevent a PR disaster when a phone's "Apple" battery explodes.
    - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
      How would it be a disaster? All they have to do is determine it's a third party battery and all the tech blogs move on.
      - vesrah 7y ago
        By then the damage to the brand has already been done.
        JustSomeNobody 7y ago
        The chances of a fire are slim otherwise we’d hear more about it. And seriously, everyone has already forgotten about samnsung’s exploding phones.
rhegart 7y ago
Worse for climate change than all their supposed good deeds. An iPhone could easily last 5 years instead of 2, and millions of poor people could have a few extra thousand in their pockets if they just allowed proper repair.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Or even more in their pockets if they just got better, cheaper Android phones.
- cujo 7y ago
  Are you suggesting the only recourse you have now is to get a new phone when your battery dies? Come on.
mnm1 7y ago
If one doesn't want such "user hostile" hardware one shouldn't buy Apple products. They are legendary, especially lately in the last few years for such choices. Until a right to repair law is passed, there's nothing we can do and Apple will fight that tooth and nail. The best thing for people who care about such things to do is not to buy Apple products and fight for the law.
- egdod 7y ago
  Apple is user-hostile when it comes to repairing hardware. Google is user-hostile when it comes to spying on users. What’s a person to do?
eqtn 7y ago
Wanting to repair comes from the thing that iPhone is sold to the user. If US were to pass the right to repair law, will it be possible for apple to stop selling the device and start renting it and circumvent the law? Like, You can rent the iPhone for 3-4 years for $1200 and should return it.
jaclaz 7y ago
Cross referencing other thread, different source, same topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20644553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20644553
lnsru 7y ago
I am going to pay 49€ for iPhone 6 original battery replacement in coming weeks. It’s still many times cheaper than buying new phone. Ifixit wants 20€ only for compatible part, so I think, Apple’s 49€ inclusive half hour technician work is very good deal. I work as an electrical engineer and understand Apple’s position very well. Nobody wants, that user try to service their devices. Some get lucky and device works fine, but majority end up wanting free support for their failures. Especially when YouTube is full of tutorials teaching untrained folks how to do even complicated repairs. Without proper skill it ends up very quickly in a disaster <- see this daily in my job.
- coupdejarnac 7y ago
  Changing the battery in an iPhone 6 is easy with the iFixit kit. I've done it. Even if you somehow manage to catastrophically screw up, it is a 5 year old phone.
  - lnsru 7y ago
    I replaced the screen and battery by myself on other iPhone 6. First time I damaged cable of the front camera. 5€ used with shipping. Second repair went smoothly. Original display was something crazy expensive as 180€. 30€ display from Amazon was ok for 5 year old phone.
- canuckintime 7y ago
  I took an iPhone SE to an Apple Store for a battery replacement program last year. Spent 4+ hours waiting with minimal status updates until the genius finally came back out to say that the battery was replaced but TouchID was now broken, they didn't have any replacement parts and it would take a week for a refurbished unit to arrive. Had to pay to take the broken phone away with no other recourse. Six months later, the battery is bad again...
  - lnsru 7y ago
    Went to their repair center with 2 phones. 1 hour later went home with 2 fresh phones. Amazing experience, but heard, it’s not that good in big cities.
miles 7y ago
Have we all forgotten that mobile phone battery replacement was just this easy[0] not too long ago? Now, even a phone listed in "9 Best Phones With Removable Battery In 2019"[1] has a battery replacement process like this[2]. [0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxdXuKbivQ&t=1m0s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxdXuKbivQ&t=1m0s [1] https://thedroidguy.com/2019/06/9-best-phones-removable-battery-2019-1079207 https://thedroidguy.com/2019/06/9-best-phones-removable-batt... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY07MujU2pM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY07MujU2pM
- magashna 7y ago
  Last time I remember having any easy access was the Galaxy S3. Pop open the back, swap battery. Done. I would even carry spares when on vacation if I needed some extra juice.
  - antisthenes 7y ago
    Galaxy S5 has fully replaceable batteries as well. As a phone, I'd say it still holds up rather well as a lower end mid-range phone today. I'm holding onto it until Librem Phone comes out, which also has a replaceable battery. Having phones with non-replaceable batteries just seems incredibly wasteful to me, so I won't ever buy one on general principle.
    - briandear 7y ago
      Your comment pretty much dismisses the validity of Apple being anti-competitive. You don’t like their product, thus you bought an alternative that meets your needs. If Apple was anti-competitive, you wouldn’t be able to buy an alternative. Apple has a monopoly for Apple phones, but that isn’t a monopoly. If you buy an Apple product, you are agreeing to buy an Apple product with all that entails. If you want a user replaceable battery, you buy a different phone. Apple isn’t using market dominance to prevent you from buying alternatives. If Apple owned a majority of the battery market and created a monopoly on batteries, that’s different than them controlling the batteries in their own product. Apple’s actions don’t have any bearing on someone’s ability to buy a repair a phone — just the ability to buy and repair an Apple phone.
joshypants 7y ago
Apple makes increasingly disappointing products. I recently was looking at replacing my iPhone 7 Plus, but around $900 would get the next baseline model, for no real tangible benefits, and some tangible downsides like no zoom lens and being forced to use the face scanning. Sorry, I'll replace my battery and cracked screen and wait a couple more years, thanks.
- briandear 7y ago
  You aren’t forced to use face scanning.
  - joshypants 7y ago
    And why would enabling a typed passcode be an improvement over the touch id I currently enjoy on the 7 plus?
- jjtheblunt 7y ago
  You can disable FaceID and go with typed passcodes.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Or not use a passcode at all…
  - joshypants 7y ago
    A typed passcode is a downgrade in convenience from the touch id I currently enjoy. This is my point.
mstolpm 7y ago
To give another perspective: I bought a used iPhone SE about a month ago and was worried about battery health because many sellers didn‘t mention it. After passing some more shady offers I found an SE for cheap (around 100€) that claimed 95% battery health. And I could verify that in the settings. Seller mentioned the iPhone was never serviced and only used as a backup phone. Perhaps that should have ring an alarm, but I bought it. Two days later battery health was down to 71%. A week later the battery was dead. And of course it was not an original Apple battery by any means. So, it might be bad communication by Apple, but for buyers a sign that the battery isn‘t original is very welcome.
- addicted 7y ago
  I’m not sure how this is supposed to help you in your situation. In fact it has muddied the waters for all situations because now even perfectly fine batteries will show a bad battery status.
  - ghostpepper 7y ago
    Presumably when the seller showed OP the phone, before money had changed hands, the battery would have shown "non original" or simple "battery no good" and the OP would not have bought it (or bought it for a reduced price knowing he would need to replace the battery with a genuine one)
  - close04 7y ago
    Having a status page in the phone that tells you which parts are original and which are aftermarket is very helpful when you buy a used phone or fix your own in a shop. You could easily see if you're getting an original battery or screen. Of course you should be allowed to fix your own phone in any shop and with any parts but this should be obvious in the phone to discourage fraud.
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    In the situation where you're buying a used phone, it's better for some fine batteries to show a bad status than for some bad batteries to show a good status.
ProAm 7y ago
Apple simply doesn't respect their customers.
- jjtheblunt 7y ago
  I suspect the opposite: Apple's cost for occasional battery explosions injuring their customers is the real concern.
  - mopsi 7y ago
    Ironically, Apple making third party repairs difficult by not selling genuine spare parts and not publishing service guides increases the risk of an iPhone exploding, because it pushes third parties towards sourcing parts from shady sources. Why third parties exist at all? They must be doing something better: either they're cheaper, faster, more competent, in more convenient locations, or something else along these lines. Apple has long repair times and that would be my argument for preferring a local repair shop over shipping the phone or computer god-knows-where.
jellicle 7y ago
I wish Apple weren't so schizophrenic. Odd-numbered days: PRIVACY DAY - we love our users! Even-numbered days: HARDWARE DAY - we hate our users! Pick one and stick with it, guys.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  The word that I think has a bigger issue there is "user"- to me, it feels like Apple is treating their customers like drug addicts, and now that they're hooked, they're jacking up prices.
meerita 7y ago
Does anyone has information about that issue that Apple had with their OS diminishing the power of the batteries? I think they're still on trial for that.
cujo 7y ago
Consider the source.
bleepbleep5832 7y ago
Is there any benefit whatsoever (even in a theoretical sense) that locking down the battery enhances user privacy in any way? To elaborate: Is there something similar to an attack where we chill a computer's RAM to recover a cryptographic key, for instance?
kmbfjr 7y ago
People put these things in their pockets and fly with them. Forcing people to use batteries with a decent level of quality control is a good thing. I don't feel like dying because someone spent $15 on a replacement battery purchased at the same place they by their Vape juice.
zonidjan 7y ago
Umm... is this a surprise to anyone? I'm only surprised it's new.
- hnModsRDanger 7y ago
  Same. The only thing I am surprised is that people here are defending this practice. I wonder if the loyalty to Apple is genuine or desperation.
acd 7y ago
Is it legal from competition laws to lock your product? Sherman anti trust law “Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States” Someone could argue that monopolize battery repair is a form of monopoly. I understand the battery safety part from Apple though.
MrZongle2 7y ago
Why does this strike me as just a 21st Century variation upon the "mining town Company Store" concept?
- briandear 7y ago
  You don’t have to buy an Apple product.
  - moate 7y ago
    You don't have to work in the mine. Metaphor still works.
    - svachalek 7y ago
      People did have to work at the mine. At first because they needed to eat, and later because they were in "debt" to the company store, thus the term "debt slavery". I'm not quite seeing how this is comparable to a consumer product decision.
dbg31415 7y ago
Torn on this. 1) I want to be able to open and repair my own things. 2) Every time I use a non-Apple battery, or buy a refurbished phone, I have issues ranging from battery life is shorter, to battery swelling. I bought an 8s from Amazon’s refurbished line last week for a family member and the battery health started at 89% but is now at 81%. Sketch. Hard to trust any refurbished seller. Ultimately that leads to bad experiences with Apple products — my dad gets a replacement phone and all he knows is the battery life is poor.
velox_io 7y ago
Apple has a good thing here. They limit repair and parts to only those who they authorise, keeping parts off the second-hand market. And why replace a cable when you can replace both boards, then maybe the cable too. They do seem very quick to recommend replacing major parts or to buy new. They could try the easy fixes (such as cables), I think people would rather risk a small fee before deciding if it is worth shelling out for more expensive components.
neuralRiot 7y ago
The chinese are already selling tools to read, clone, activate batteries. Laptop batteries had been like this for a long time, if you open it and replace the cells you need to reset the controller.
privateSFacct 7y ago
Despite all the HN comments, Apple's made an absolute killing and charges FAR FAR higher margins for their products in part because they design them so normal people don't get totally f'd over. And yes, the scam of a trash after market battery to make the iphone battery life look good is well known. And guess how many parents and grandparents then go to apple to "fix" something that has nothing to do with Apple? The scammers are the people putting the bogus batteries in. Apple saying that the battery is not confirmed genuine is not a scam. Its the truth. People can't figure out why apple can charge such ridiculous premiums on what is otherwise a commodity product. This is why. From applecare to the activation lock to app permissions to alerting user to bogus behavior to app store quality to reversible charging cables - all the activities HN considers "anti-consumer" have helped make consumers value apple products. This will be one of those situations. Now when you buy a used phone, much more likely to have a real sense of the battery quality in what you are buying. 3 year used apple products ALREADY carry a much higher premium vs android phones, this will help continue that trend. And no, it's NOT that hard to replace a battery in an iphone, seriously, for all the folks complaining about that go to an apple store or buy a kit, and compare the hassle to doing the same thing with a android phone.
- radiorental 7y ago
  I'm having a very hard time following your logic: Apple charges lots of money on commodity parts because they don't want users getting, as you say, "f'ed over" There is a healthy after market ecosystem primarily because apple charges so much. Not the other way around. Furthermore, in the video on the ifixit site, the blogger replaced the battery with a genuine secondhand apple battery and it would not recognize it. This is predatory behaviour from Apple on its consumers.
  - privateSFacct 7y ago
    I think we are seeing the predatory behavior of scammers here. For example, you are claiming that just attaching a chip from an old apple battery to a new one should read as genuine in the phone. That is a total scam. The detection feature is tied to a chip, not to the cell chemistry itself. If chips from old iphone batteries are all it takes to show a scam battery is genuine, given the high volume of old batteries, EVERY scam battery would show as genuine. This is a workaround already used and well known in other situations. To avoid this workaround you need to tie a specific chip in, not just any apple chip in. Seriously - how do YOU propose apple alert the user to a bogus third party battery.
pmontra 7y ago
We had something like this with printers and ink cartridges and toner. I think manufactures eventually lost. One example https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/858824-hp-ink-cartridge-monopoly-class-action-lawsuit-settles-1-5m/ https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news...
jjtheblunt 7y ago
Just a guess: maybe Apple is locking iPhone batteries because the anti-fix-it negativity is less expensive than battery explosion lawsuits?
jbverschoor 7y ago
I think this makes total sense for batteries. Batteries are a hazard, and a lot of bad ones are out there. Prices for swap came down quite a bunch, so I think this is fine. Apple is taking ownership about exploding phones and other problems. This is the reason why it gets more and more locked down. I once bought a MacBook with weirdass problems. Turned out to be a bad data cable used by someone. Chips are still swappable, because not many people do this / screw up, but also... a battery is quite a dangerous component
- moate 7y ago
  But it does this even with their own batteries. You can have a legit iPhone and a legit iPhone battery installed and it will have this issue occur. This is not "taking ownership" in the way you intended, but it is demonstrating ownership.
Circuits 7y ago
Am I the only one who has never had to fix/repair their phone before? Seriously people, learn to take better care of you phones.
ksec 7y ago
I don't have a problem with Apple showing whether the Battery is replaced or using genuine Apple Battery. My problem is that replacement done by Apple is both too costly and too time consuming. Current iPhone X / XS / XR Battery Replacement is $69, which is roughly double the price of being replaced on streets with similar battery. Now of course there are scammers who tries to replace a crappy battery, but going to well know Repair Shop normally prevent that from happening. I would have no problem paying double the price for an Apple Store replacement, except not only would have I have to wait hours or days for replacement depending on which part of the cities, countries, world you are in. You will also have to wait and go into that awful Apple Store and try and get someone to help. What is an 30 to 45 min job elsewhere, in the worst case you could wait 45 min just to get someone in Apple Store. Here I am paying double the price for worst experience. But that is not the worst part. Apple Refuse to replace your Battery if your screen is broken, has slight crack on the edge, water damage or whatever damage they claim it has. You will first have to pay and fix those damages. Again I am perfectly fine with paying to fix it, except more than 99% of times Apple will quote you a price roughly 30 - 50% of your iPhone's that is now already 2 - 3 years old. And it makes much more sense to buy a new one instead. ( This remind me of the so call logic board damage I had with MacBook Pro 2 years ago. Sometimes I wonder why I am still using Apple )
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  Maybe it's just me, but $69 for a repair that 1) Apple will stand behind, and 2) will add another two years of life to a $1000 phone, is a pretty good deal. While there are undoubtedly good third-party repair shops, there is also a lot of crap that isn't worth half of what Apple is charging. Subpar work, subpar parts.
  - mopsi 7y ago
    Going to Apple for repairs does not guarantee a quality service. See: The Apple Store Genius Bar Broke My $5,000 iMac Pro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU "Subpar" is a very mild word to describe what was done there.
Yabood 7y ago
Perhaps unrelated to the topic of batteries, but I wanted to share my experience at an Apple store from two days ago. I’m on a business trip to Sydney, at work I accidentally spilled water on my MacBook Pro and the thing went dark. I went to the Apple store, they popped it open and found too much water damage so they couldn’t repair it. Guess what, they replaced the whole laptop with a brand new one box and everything on the spot. They didn’t even charge me the AppleCare fee. Apple’s customer service is second to none. If you buy their products, you should buy AppleCare too and not worry about shady repair shops.
jrnichols 7y ago
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I can agree with the folks that are unhappy about Apple locking out small retailers. On the other hand, I can see how Apple would want to protect its image. In my personal experience, I've had a few friends have their batteries replaced at kiosks in the mall and have experienced issues. Do they blame the random vendor in the mall? Nope, they blame Apple and have decided "the iPhone sucks." Third party battery replacements aren't even that much of a savings over having Apple do it. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power $49 for the "iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and all other eligible models." Those are the ones that now have batteries that are probably wearing down more. You have to go to an Apple Authorized Service Provider to have the replacement done. But guess what? Best Buy locations are now AASPs as well and they can do it. I'm ok with that.
CivBase 7y ago
A lot of comments in defense of Apple seem to have overlooked something very important. > If you replace the battery in the newest iPhones, a message indicating you need to service your battery appears in Settings > Battery, next to Battery Health. This is not a warning that you are using a non-OEM part. This is an imperative for the user to get the part replaced. Even if most non-Apple batteries are terrible, this is not a reasonable approach. IMO, it is bad for Apple to refer to anything they have not approved as defective and very misleading to the customer.
xenospn 7y ago
Not sure about you guys but batteries can and do explode. I don't want anyone but apple putting a battery in something that spends many hours of every day 10cm from my junk.
arcticbull 7y ago
> Fortunately, your replacement battery will continue to work perfectly fine, and you’ll get all of the benefits that come with a new battery. Literally enough said.
m3kw9 7y ago
Apple prob had enough of ppl screwing themselves from burns and brunt phones. I have hand an iPad messed up in weird ways after a battery swap from some local cheap places. This is actually pro consumer in my view.
8bitsrule 7y ago
I recall a time when battery replacement was easy enough that it wasn't considered to be a repair.
u35517 7y ago
"It’s not a bug; it’s a feature Apple wants." Yeah, what about thinking of the users instead? Then I'd respect Apple a bit more. But no, it's the computer jail made cool, for sure.

361 points by miles 7y ago

>>"Technically, it is possible to remove the microcontroller chip from the original battery and carefully solder it into the new battery you’re swapping in, restoring the Battery Health feature—but the procedure isn’t for the faint of heart, and it’s an unreasonable requirement for any repair, much less something as simple as a battery swap."<< it seems a razor and a low wattage solder iron will fix it. and im guessing a few little guys may end up fattening thier wallets this way. Im wondering how apple might catch the play, and how they would change the hardware so a chip transplant is no longer a workaround.

Niksko 7y ago
I wonder if micro fluctuations in battery output voltage and current (due to manufacturing variations) could be used to 'fingerprint' a battery. Encrypted transmission of this fingerprint between the battery chip and the OS = invalidate the battery if the fingerprint suddenly changes.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I imagine that's not feasible when you consider battery decay.
Nextgrid 7y ago
The chip could keep encryption keys in RAM (since it’s always powered by the battery and there’s always gonna be enough juice in there to power it given its tiny power consumption) and if the chip loses power (due to being desoldered) the keys are lost preventing the phone from authenticating it.
- buildzr 7y ago
  Great, leave the device unplugged for a few weeks and any residual charge will drop off enough to invalidate your battery keys. That'd be a shit show.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    If the battery voltage drops that low, the battery will never charge again anyway.
    - buildzr 7y ago
      I mean, I hope you're leaving some distance between your RAM and the cutoff.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  Clip bypass battery to the power/gnd pins while desoldering and resoldering. Read RAM image before desoldering. Write image to RAM after resoldering. For that matter, read RAM image from old battery and write it to new battery, no soldering required. Or MITM the connection between phone and battery, and the bypass device can pass-through battery health information while intercepting and responding to authentication-related signals. You will never be able to enforce hardware security indefinitely against an attacker with device-in-possession.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    What if the chip uses asymmetric cryptography for authentication with a private key stored in it, impossible to recover, just like a credit card? In this case it can’t be spoofed by intercepting the comma between the phone & chip, private key can’t be extracted, etc. Sure, a bypass battery is possible. The point here isn’t 100% security (which as you say is impossible), it’s to make the operation difficult enough that most give up or have to charge more than an official battery replacement.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      Impossible? Dissolve the chip casing in fuming nitric acid and use probe needles. The official pins are not the only way to interface with the silicon, when you have device-in-possession. Use a timing attack. Find a collision. It is very likely that the same private key is locked up inside every chip, and one reverse-engineer, probing one of them once, can compromise the key for all of the chips manufactured before their publication date, and probably would last until the OEM ran out of those chips, and then deprecated the key after some time with a software patch. The one-time cost would be worth it for any manufacturer of off-brand batteries. The battery controller chip is not going to be an impenetrable security vault, in any case. The cost of parts is a factor, even for Apple. Asymmetric keys don't work if the attacker is in possession of the private key, no matter how many padlocked boxes you put it in. The attacker has the key, and getting it out in usable form is a matter of time, not possibilities.
      - 7y ago

msie 7y ago

Goddammit Apple! You keep on finding new reasons for me to hate you! I want names! Who’s responsible for this crap?!?

brokenmachine 7y ago
This seems like it's pretty similar to the old reasons. The people responsible are the people who keep buying their locked-down crap.

GhostVII 7y ago

To be clear, you can replace the battery with whatever battery you want, it will just show a message saying it can't be verified as an Apple battery. The only user impact is being unable to see battery health. I don't even think I can see my battery health on my Android so I don't see it as a big deal, but definitely not great if they are hiding this functionality for no reason.

sjwright 7y ago
It won’t be for no reason. If their battery health tightly calibrated to report on Apple’s OEM battery, it could provide misleading information about third-party batteries. My guess is that Apple is bored of dealing with complaints about devices which have been modified by third parties.
- sschueller 7y ago
  Well, if they made the batteries easily replaceable without the device having to go to service they would not have this many issues. Of course their replacement batteries would need to be reasonably priced...
  - addicted 7y ago
    Or available.
  - endorphone 7y ago
    Anecdotes are worthless, but in the past half decade the only people I know who have successfully replaced a smartphone or pad battery have been Apple device owners. Apple has an easy, clear, successful program for replacing batteries, and most find the pricing entirely reasonable. A friend did buy a Nexus 6P battery replacement kit from Amazon, but the process was so byzantine, and no shop was willing to do it, that they just ended up getting a new device. I did like back in the day when I could pop the back off my Samsung Galaxy and replace the battery, but those days are gone and Apple is the only company that has any sort of concerted program to keep their older devices operating.

soganess 7y ago

EDIT: Per Betelgeuse90 comment below, my characterization of the situation was incorrect. Apple's behavior is anti-competitive. I am leaving my original comment here for posterity. Original comment: I love jumping on the apple hate train as much as the next person, but this is not a valid reason to do so. Depending on the aftermarket battery, those reported values could be completely wrong / misleading to the user. If you are looking for proof, just buy a random battery off amazon for your computer and tell me how accurate the current reported charge is. Plus, I would like to know if a used device I buy has a non-OEM battery. As long as it stays in that settings screen and doesn't turn into a consistent annoying pop-up (or doesn't stop the user from upgrading, as was the case with the home button debacle of days passed) I don't think this deserves the outrage. Also, the title is a bit misleading. Nothing is being locked, the device functions as it should. An ideal solution would be that apple allows third party battery manufacturers to go through a certification process so apple could ensure quality control. Fat chance in you-know-what apple would ever do that.

Betelgeuse90 7y ago
To be fair, you'll get the "service battery" message even if you place an original Apple battery in the iPhone. A used device that was serviced perfectly well but not by Apple will still display this message. All this means is that the battery wasn't replaced by Apple themselves.
- soganess 7y ago
  Good catch! I will adjust my original message with an edit. That is straight up anti-competitive. Egg on my face for giving apple the benefit of the doubt.
  - Betelgeuse90 7y ago
    To be even more fair... ;) We don't know what Apple does when they replace batteries for customers. Maybe there's a calibration process or something of the sort. After all they're reporting battery health, which nobody else does, and that's notoriously difficult to get right. I think there's still room for giving the benefit of the doubt. We're just assuming that all they do is plop a battery with an Apple logo on it and call it a day, but we don't know that.

zepto 7y ago

iFixit is misrepresenting Apple to market its tool sales business. This is what they do.

moate 7y ago
Care to set the record straight? What's actually going on if not what they're presenting? They're making an assumption about intent. Unless you can prove you're part of the Apple team responsible for this hardware behavior, you're just going to be doing the same.
- zepto 7y ago
  The batteries are not locked, and off-brand replacements work perfectly. There is no impediment whatsoever to repair here. iFixit are therefore making a misstatement. The only thing Apple is doing is not making assessments about the condition of off-brand replacements. This is pretty obvious and expected behavior. iFixit are using a misrepresentation of this to generate publicity using the same narrative as they always do.
  - moate 7y ago
    But they're doing this with their own branded replacements. If I put an actual apple battery into my iPhone but don't do it through apple's store, this behavior is what happens. This is akin to my check engine light always being on whenever any mechanic makes repairs to my car. Yes, Kia is "protecting themselves from liability of damages by 3rd party behavior" but they're also creating a UX problem for me. As the end user: this is stupid, and I don't like it, and it seems like a choice not a need on the company's part.
    - zepto 7y ago
      Batteries have a relatively short shelf life, so even an original apple branded battery can be a scam if it’s old stock. I have personally run into this when I replaced a battery myself back in the iPhone 4 era.

eridius 7y ago

I'm willing to bet Apple has seen counterfeit batteries that claim to be Apple batteries and this is a reaction to that. The other stuff this article claims was designed to stop third-party repairs, such as the stuff to do with Touch ID, was actually security-related (basically, the device couldn't trust Touch ID anymore after the repair). I hadn't heard about True Tone disabling before, but that's probably because AIUI each device's screen is individually calibrated in the factory, and if you swap the screen yourself then you've lost that calibration.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago
> I'm willing to bet Apple has seen counterfeit batteries that claim to be Apple batteries and this is a reaction to that. People are still going to send Apple their phone and say, "why is my phone displaying this message?", which support is going to have to deal with. This isn't going to all the sudden save Apple money on support.
- eridius 7y ago
  No but it's going to prevent a PR disaster when a phone's "Apple" battery explodes.
  - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
    How would it be a disaster? All they have to do is determine it's a third party battery and all the tech blogs move on.
    - vesrah 7y ago
      By then the damage to the brand has already been done.
      - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
        The chances of a fire are slim otherwise we’d hear more about it. And seriously, everyone has already forgotten about samnsung’s exploding phones.

rhegart 7y ago

Worse for climate change than all their supposed good deeds. An iPhone could easily last 5 years instead of 2, and millions of poor people could have a few extra thousand in their pockets if they just allowed proper repair.

jimmaswell 7y ago
Or even more in their pockets if they just got better, cheaper Android phones.
cujo 7y ago
Are you suggesting the only recourse you have now is to get a new phone when your battery dies? Come on.

mnm1 7y ago

If one doesn't want such "user hostile" hardware one shouldn't buy Apple products. They are legendary, especially lately in the last few years for such choices. Until a right to repair law is passed, there's nothing we can do and Apple will fight that tooth and nail. The best thing for people who care about such things to do is not to buy Apple products and fight for the law.

egdod 7y ago
Apple is user-hostile when it comes to repairing hardware. Google is user-hostile when it comes to spying on users. What’s a person to do?

eqtn 7y ago

Wanting to repair comes from the thing that iPhone is sold to the user. If US were to pass the right to repair law, will it be possible for apple to stop selling the device and start renting it and circumvent the law? Like, You can rent the iPhone for 3-4 years for $1200 and should return it.

jaclaz 7y ago

Cross referencing other thread, different source, same topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20644553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20644553

lnsru 7y ago

I am going to pay 49€ for iPhone 6 original battery replacement in coming weeks. It’s still many times cheaper than buying new phone. Ifixit wants 20€ only for compatible part, so I think, Apple’s 49€ inclusive half hour technician work is very good deal. I work as an electrical engineer and understand Apple’s position very well. Nobody wants, that user try to service their devices. Some get lucky and device works fine, but majority end up wanting free support for their failures. Especially when YouTube is full of tutorials teaching untrained folks how to do even complicated repairs. Without proper skill it ends up very quickly in a disaster <- see this daily in my job.

coupdejarnac 7y ago
Changing the battery in an iPhone 6 is easy with the iFixit kit. I've done it. Even if you somehow manage to catastrophically screw up, it is a 5 year old phone.
- lnsru 7y ago
  I replaced the screen and battery by myself on other iPhone 6. First time I damaged cable of the front camera. 5€ used with shipping. Second repair went smoothly. Original display was something crazy expensive as 180€. 30€ display from Amazon was ok for 5 year old phone.
canuckintime 7y ago
I took an iPhone SE to an Apple Store for a battery replacement program last year. Spent 4+ hours waiting with minimal status updates until the genius finally came back out to say that the battery was replaced but TouchID was now broken, they didn't have any replacement parts and it would take a week for a refurbished unit to arrive. Had to pay to take the broken phone away with no other recourse. Six months later, the battery is bad again...
- lnsru 7y ago
  Went to their repair center with 2 phones. 1 hour later went home with 2 fresh phones. Amazing experience, but heard, it’s not that good in big cities.

miles 7y ago

Have we all forgotten that mobile phone battery replacement was just this easy[0] not too long ago? Now, even a phone listed in "9 Best Phones With Removable Battery In 2019"[1] has a battery replacement process like this[2]. [0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxdXuKbivQ&t=1m0s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxdXuKbivQ&t=1m0s [1] https://thedroidguy.com/2019/06/9-best-phones-removable-battery-2019-1079207 https://thedroidguy.com/2019/06/9-best-phones-removable-batt... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY07MujU2pM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY07MujU2pM

magashna 7y ago
Last time I remember having any easy access was the Galaxy S3. Pop open the back, swap battery. Done. I would even carry spares when on vacation if I needed some extra juice.
- antisthenes 7y ago
  Galaxy S5 has fully replaceable batteries as well. As a phone, I'd say it still holds up rather well as a lower end mid-range phone today. I'm holding onto it until Librem Phone comes out, which also has a replaceable battery. Having phones with non-replaceable batteries just seems incredibly wasteful to me, so I won't ever buy one on general principle.
  - briandear 7y ago
    Your comment pretty much dismisses the validity of Apple being anti-competitive. You don’t like their product, thus you bought an alternative that meets your needs. If Apple was anti-competitive, you wouldn’t be able to buy an alternative. Apple has a monopoly for Apple phones, but that isn’t a monopoly. If you buy an Apple product, you are agreeing to buy an Apple product with all that entails. If you want a user replaceable battery, you buy a different phone. Apple isn’t using market dominance to prevent you from buying alternatives. If Apple owned a majority of the battery market and created a monopoly on batteries, that’s different than them controlling the batteries in their own product. Apple’s actions don’t have any bearing on someone’s ability to buy a repair a phone — just the ability to buy and repair an Apple phone.

joshypants 7y ago

Apple makes increasingly disappointing products. I recently was looking at replacing my iPhone 7 Plus, but around $900 would get the next baseline model, for no real tangible benefits, and some tangible downsides like no zoom lens and being forced to use the face scanning. Sorry, I'll replace my battery and cracked screen and wait a couple more years, thanks.

briandear 7y ago
You aren’t forced to use face scanning.
- joshypants 7y ago
  And why would enabling a typed passcode be an improvement over the touch id I currently enjoy on the 7 plus?
jjtheblunt 7y ago
You can disable FaceID and go with typed passcodes.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Or not use a passcode at all…
- joshypants 7y ago
  A typed passcode is a downgrade in convenience from the touch id I currently enjoy. This is my point.

mstolpm 7y ago

To give another perspective: I bought a used iPhone SE about a month ago and was worried about battery health because many sellers didn‘t mention it. After passing some more shady offers I found an SE for cheap (around 100€) that claimed 95% battery health. And I could verify that in the settings. Seller mentioned the iPhone was never serviced and only used as a backup phone. Perhaps that should have ring an alarm, but I bought it. Two days later battery health was down to 71%. A week later the battery was dead. And of course it was not an original Apple battery by any means. So, it might be bad communication by Apple, but for buyers a sign that the battery isn‘t original is very welcome.

addicted 7y ago
I’m not sure how this is supposed to help you in your situation. In fact it has muddied the waters for all situations because now even perfectly fine batteries will show a bad battery status.
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  Presumably when the seller showed OP the phone, before money had changed hands, the battery would have shown "non original" or simple "battery no good" and the OP would not have bought it (or bought it for a reduced price knowing he would need to replace the battery with a genuine one)
- close04 7y ago
  Having a status page in the phone that tells you which parts are original and which are aftermarket is very helpful when you buy a used phone or fix your own in a shop. You could easily see if you're getting an original battery or screen. Of course you should be allowed to fix your own phone in any shop and with any parts but this should be obvious in the phone to discourage fraud.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  In the situation where you're buying a used phone, it's better for some fine batteries to show a bad status than for some bad batteries to show a good status.

ProAm 7y ago

Apple simply doesn't respect their customers.

jjtheblunt 7y ago
I suspect the opposite: Apple's cost for occasional battery explosions injuring their customers is the real concern.
- mopsi 7y ago
  Ironically, Apple making third party repairs difficult by not selling genuine spare parts and not publishing service guides increases the risk of an iPhone exploding, because it pushes third parties towards sourcing parts from shady sources. Why third parties exist at all? They must be doing something better: either they're cheaper, faster, more competent, in more convenient locations, or something else along these lines. Apple has long repair times and that would be my argument for preferring a local repair shop over shipping the phone or computer god-knows-where.

jellicle 7y ago

I wish Apple weren't so schizophrenic. Odd-numbered days: PRIVACY DAY - we love our users! Even-numbered days: HARDWARE DAY - we hate our users! Pick one and stick with it, guys.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
The word that I think has a bigger issue there is "user"- to me, it feels like Apple is treating their customers like drug addicts, and now that they're hooked, they're jacking up prices.

meerita 7y ago

Does anyone has information about that issue that Apple had with their OS diminishing the power of the batteries? I think they're still on trial for that.

cujo 7y ago

Consider the source.

bleepbleep5832 7y ago

Is there any benefit whatsoever (even in a theoretical sense) that locking down the battery enhances user privacy in any way? To elaborate: Is there something similar to an attack where we chill a computer's RAM to recover a cryptographic key, for instance?

kmbfjr 7y ago

People put these things in their pockets and fly with them. Forcing people to use batteries with a decent level of quality control is a good thing. I don't feel like dying because someone spent $15 on a replacement battery purchased at the same place they by their Vape juice.

zonidjan 7y ago

Umm... is this a surprise to anyone? I'm only surprised it's new.

hnModsRDanger 7y ago
Same. The only thing I am surprised is that people here are defending this practice. I wonder if the loyalty to Apple is genuine or desperation.

acd 7y ago

Is it legal from competition laws to lock your product? Sherman anti trust law “Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States” Someone could argue that monopolize battery repair is a form of monopoly. I understand the battery safety part from Apple though.

MrZongle2 7y ago

Why does this strike me as just a 21st Century variation upon the "mining town Company Store" concept?

briandear 7y ago
You don’t have to buy an Apple product.
- moate 7y ago
  You don't have to work in the mine. Metaphor still works.
  - svachalek 7y ago
    People did have to work at the mine. At first because they needed to eat, and later because they were in "debt" to the company store, thus the term "debt slavery". I'm not quite seeing how this is comparable to a consumer product decision.

dbg31415 7y ago

Torn on this. 1) I want to be able to open and repair my own things. 2) Every time I use a non-Apple battery, or buy a refurbished phone, I have issues ranging from battery life is shorter, to battery swelling. I bought an 8s from Amazon’s refurbished line last week for a family member and the battery health started at 89% but is now at 81%. Sketch. Hard to trust any refurbished seller. Ultimately that leads to bad experiences with Apple products — my dad gets a replacement phone and all he knows is the battery life is poor.

velox_io 7y ago

Apple has a good thing here. They limit repair and parts to only those who they authorise, keeping parts off the second-hand market. And why replace a cable when you can replace both boards, then maybe the cable too. They do seem very quick to recommend replacing major parts or to buy new. They could try the easy fixes (such as cables), I think people would rather risk a small fee before deciding if it is worth shelling out for more expensive components.

neuralRiot 7y ago

The chinese are already selling tools to read, clone, activate batteries. Laptop batteries had been like this for a long time, if you open it and replace the cells you need to reset the controller.

privateSFacct 7y ago

Despite all the HN comments, Apple's made an absolute killing and charges FAR FAR higher margins for their products in part because they design them so normal people don't get totally f'd over. And yes, the scam of a trash after market battery to make the iphone battery life look good is well known. And guess how many parents and grandparents then go to apple to "fix" something that has nothing to do with Apple? The scammers are the people putting the bogus batteries in. Apple saying that the battery is not confirmed genuine is not a scam. Its the truth. People can't figure out why apple can charge such ridiculous premiums on what is otherwise a commodity product. This is why. From applecare to the activation lock to app permissions to alerting user to bogus behavior to app store quality to reversible charging cables - all the activities HN considers "anti-consumer" have helped make consumers value apple products. This will be one of those situations. Now when you buy a used phone, much more likely to have a real sense of the battery quality in what you are buying. 3 year used apple products ALREADY carry a much higher premium vs android phones, this will help continue that trend. And no, it's NOT that hard to replace a battery in an iphone, seriously, for all the folks complaining about that go to an apple store or buy a kit, and compare the hassle to doing the same thing with a android phone.

radiorental 7y ago
I'm having a very hard time following your logic: Apple charges lots of money on commodity parts because they don't want users getting, as you say, "f'ed over" There is a healthy after market ecosystem primarily because apple charges so much. Not the other way around. Furthermore, in the video on the ifixit site, the blogger replaced the battery with a genuine secondhand apple battery and it would not recognize it. This is predatory behaviour from Apple on its consumers.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  I think we are seeing the predatory behavior of scammers here. For example, you are claiming that just attaching a chip from an old apple battery to a new one should read as genuine in the phone. That is a total scam. The detection feature is tied to a chip, not to the cell chemistry itself. If chips from old iphone batteries are all it takes to show a scam battery is genuine, given the high volume of old batteries, EVERY scam battery would show as genuine. This is a workaround already used and well known in other situations. To avoid this workaround you need to tie a specific chip in, not just any apple chip in. Seriously - how do YOU propose apple alert the user to a bogus third party battery.

pmontra 7y ago

We had something like this with printers and ink cartridges and toner. I think manufactures eventually lost. One example https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/858824-hp-ink-cartridge-monopoly-class-action-lawsuit-settles-1-5m/ https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news...

jjtheblunt 7y ago

Just a guess: maybe Apple is locking iPhone batteries because the anti-fix-it negativity is less expensive than battery explosion lawsuits?

jbverschoor 7y ago

I think this makes total sense for batteries. Batteries are a hazard, and a lot of bad ones are out there. Prices for swap came down quite a bunch, so I think this is fine. Apple is taking ownership about exploding phones and other problems. This is the reason why it gets more and more locked down. I once bought a MacBook with weirdass problems. Turned out to be a bad data cable used by someone. Chips are still swappable, because not many people do this / screw up, but also... a battery is quite a dangerous component

moate 7y ago
But it does this even with their own batteries. You can have a legit iPhone and a legit iPhone battery installed and it will have this issue occur. This is not "taking ownership" in the way you intended, but it is demonstrating ownership.

Circuits 7y ago

Am I the only one who has never had to fix/repair their phone before? Seriously people, learn to take better care of you phones.

ksec 7y ago

I don't have a problem with Apple showing whether the Battery is replaced or using genuine Apple Battery. My problem is that replacement done by Apple is both too costly and too time consuming. Current iPhone X / XS / XR Battery Replacement is $69, which is roughly double the price of being replaced on streets with similar battery. Now of course there are scammers who tries to replace a crappy battery, but going to well know Repair Shop normally prevent that from happening. I would have no problem paying double the price for an Apple Store replacement, except not only would have I have to wait hours or days for replacement depending on which part of the cities, countries, world you are in. You will also have to wait and go into that awful Apple Store and try and get someone to help. What is an 30 to 45 min job elsewhere, in the worst case you could wait 45 min just to get someone in Apple Store. Here I am paying double the price for worst experience. But that is not the worst part. Apple Refuse to replace your Battery if your screen is broken, has slight crack on the edge, water damage or whatever damage they claim it has. You will first have to pay and fix those damages. Again I am perfectly fine with paying to fix it, except more than 99% of times Apple will quote you a price roughly 30 - 50% of your iPhone's that is now already 2 - 3 years old. And it makes much more sense to buy a new one instead. ( This remind me of the so call logic board damage I had with MacBook Pro 2 years ago. Sometimes I wonder why I am still using Apple )

rootusrootus 7y ago
Maybe it's just me, but $69 for a repair that 1) Apple will stand behind, and 2) will add another two years of life to a $1000 phone, is a pretty good deal. While there are undoubtedly good third-party repair shops, there is also a lot of crap that isn't worth half of what Apple is charging. Subpar work, subpar parts.
- mopsi 7y ago
  Going to Apple for repairs does not guarantee a quality service. See: The Apple Store Genius Bar Broke My $5,000 iMac Pro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU "Subpar" is a very mild word to describe what was done there.

Yabood 7y ago

Perhaps unrelated to the topic of batteries, but I wanted to share my experience at an Apple store from two days ago. I’m on a business trip to Sydney, at work I accidentally spilled water on my MacBook Pro and the thing went dark. I went to the Apple store, they popped it open and found too much water damage so they couldn’t repair it. Guess what, they replaced the whole laptop with a brand new one box and everything on the spot. They didn’t even charge me the AppleCare fee. Apple’s customer service is second to none. If you buy their products, you should buy AppleCare too and not worry about shady repair shops.

jrnichols 7y ago

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I can agree with the folks that are unhappy about Apple locking out small retailers. On the other hand, I can see how Apple would want to protect its image. In my personal experience, I've had a few friends have their batteries replaced at kiosks in the mall and have experienced issues. Do they blame the random vendor in the mall? Nope, they blame Apple and have decided "the iPhone sucks." Third party battery replacements aren't even that much of a savings over having Apple do it. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power $49 for the "iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and all other eligible models." Those are the ones that now have batteries that are probably wearing down more. You have to go to an Apple Authorized Service Provider to have the replacement done. But guess what? Best Buy locations are now AASPs as well and they can do it. I'm ok with that.

CivBase 7y ago

A lot of comments in defense of Apple seem to have overlooked something very important. > If you replace the battery in the newest iPhones, a message indicating you need to service your battery appears in Settings > Battery, next to Battery Health. This is not a warning that you are using a non-OEM part. This is an imperative for the user to get the part replaced. Even if most non-Apple batteries are terrible, this is not a reasonable approach. IMO, it is bad for Apple to refer to anything they have not approved as defective and very misleading to the customer.

xenospn 7y ago

Not sure about you guys but batteries can and do explode. I don't want anyone but apple putting a battery in something that spends many hours of every day 10cm from my junk.

arcticbull 7y ago

> Fortunately, your replacement battery will continue to work perfectly fine, and you’ll get all of the benefits that come with a new battery. Literally enough said.

m3kw9 7y ago

Apple prob had enough of ppl screwing themselves from burns and brunt phones. I have hand an iPad messed up in weird ways after a battery swap from some local cheap places. This is actually pro consumer in my view.

8bitsrule 7y ago

I recall a time when battery replacement was easy enough that it wasn't considered to be a repair.

u35517 7y ago

"It’s not a bug; it’s a feature Apple wants." Yeah, what about thinking of the users instead? Then I'd respect Apple a bit more. But no, it's the computer jail made cool, for sure.