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Or just go to a hotel! I have a condo in a building where most of the units are listed on Airbnb or Booking.com, quality of life for residents like me has been

• tempsy 7y ago
  I feel like AirBnB has largely escaped the public uproar that Uber/Lyft have experienced, perhaps because workers rights are more tangible/relatable than the second order effects of crowding out housing stock for full-time Airbnbs despite the more serious socioeconomic consequences Airbnb can have on housing prices/available rental stock as well as safety and quality of life for anyone that has to live near one.
• sleepychu 7y ago
  The problem is that the city as a whole benefits from the increased tourism (while you and I languish in the noise polution). My city actually prohibits the use of residential buildings for short-term lets by planning permission. Though as far as I can tell despite the hundreds of air bnb listings nobody has actually applied for it! I've appealed for enforcement to the local govt and am hopeful that this will resolve my issue. :-)
• alkonaut 7y ago
  In many cities apartments are normally owned through some kind of co-op with a board that decides things. If that’s the case then I wouldn’t buy one in a building that allows more than temporary subletting. This is the case at least in Sweden, i.e it’s pretty hard to buy-to-let, and that’s normally a good thing (also for price stability).
  • robteix 7y ago
    unfortunately people list units where it's not allowed as well. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-airbnb-covert-listings-banned-units-1.5066673 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-airbnb-covert-l...
    • tapland 7y ago
      A lot of people on my floor did that when I lived in a 6000 sek/month 1 room flat outside Stockholm that required me to be an active student and still required 5 years of being in the queue for apartments which you can't sign up for until age 18. It was impossible to study most days because of kids to illicit renters running around screaming and biking in the corridors.
      • HelloNurse 7y ago
        Couldn't you ring the bell of suspect apartments, verify the presence of illicit renters and call the police? Aren't there fines or worse for the owner?
        • chrisseaton 7y ago
          > and call the police But it's just a civil agreement between property owners, isn't it? Is breaking that civil agreement a criminal matter that needs police attention?
          • inlined 7y ago
            At least in the US civil and criminal law are two totally different things.
            • chrisseaton 7y ago
              Right, as in most places, so why would you involve the police in a civil matter?
• rand84545 7y ago
  There are two possibilties here: - The noise level is within the reasonable legal limit: Tourists are exercising their rights to use the condo, in the same way that the owner (main renter) could have done. Whether it's the owner making the noise or the tourists is immaterial. - The noise levels are above the legal limits, inform them (courtesy) and then call the cops. whether it's the owner, or the tourists it's the same thing.
  • Ensorceled 7y ago
    You do realize you are defending and supporting the "tragedy of the commons"
    • rand84545 7y ago
      - not, really. Could you expand on that. - my point, it's easier to attack a group of people , if you can put a label on them. Noise is a problem regardless of its source. A noisy long term neighbour is at least as annoying as a noisy tourist. And a calm tourist is less annoying. Being noisy is not an essential property of airbnb rentals. Those who are noisy should suffer the consequences of their actions. Those who are not, should not. The second part of my argument, is "my rights start where your rights end". if the tourists/owner/ whatever has a right to make that noise, then you don't have the right to prevent them from doing that noise. If they don't have the right to make that noise level, then they don't have that right regardless of who they are. Because something disadvantages you, it doesn't mean that others don't have the right to do it.
      • PlasticTank 7y ago
        Have you never heard of common courtesy? I'm not by law required to do a lot of things I do but I do them because they make the world that little bit better for everyone, same goes for things I avoid doing.
        • chirau 7y ago
          Where does it start, where does it end? Who defines it? "Common courtesy" is a very vague term and changes from place to place
• apexalpha 7y ago
  In Amsterdam you can only AirBnB your house for 30 days a year. So normal residents can rent out their house when they go on holiday, but you can't buy up living space for only renting it out on AirBnB.
  • pentae 7y ago
    Of course the Dutch come up with a very fair and reasonable compromise.
    • StavrosK 7y ago
      Isn't it like this in many places in Europe now? Barcelona does 60 days and Greece does 90 that I know, as well. Maybe I'm mistaken on Barcelona.
      • danielbln 7y ago
        I believe in Berlin it's 6 Months out of the year or something (with caveats attached).
        • pintxo 7y ago
          There is no time, but a space limit in Berlin. You can rent out as much as you like if it's less than 50% of the space of your apartment you're actually living. If it's over 50% or you are not living there at all, you need a permit.
      • orcdork 7y ago
        The 90 day limit in Greece is related to how income from the properties is taxed iirc.
        • StavrosK 7y ago
          Not exactly: http://www.haniotika-nea.gr/90-meres-to-chrono-i-enikiasi-meso-airbnb/ http://www.haniotika-nea.gr/90-meres-to-chrono-i-enikiasi-me... It's 90 days, 60 days on small islands and you can only go over that limit if you're low-income. Compliance is a different issue, because Greece, but hopefully AirBnB and the other platforms will help police this.
• terryf 7y ago
  This is one of the reasons I don't stay in airbnbs - the system breaks the social contract. The reason hotels are more expensive is because they have to follow a bunch of rules that makes everyone's life a bit better by having insurance for risks and zoning and so on. However you have to pay a bit more. So, if you ever find yourself complaining "I wish people did something in a not the absolute cheapest and effortless way" so that society in general would benefit - don't stay in airbnb.
  • ubermonkey 7y ago
    A very reasonable point; however, AirBnB & its ilk end up being the only viable option in some cases. There's a huge bicycling event in Texas every spring, and it overnights in a town that is, most of the time, very very quiet. The meager hotel inventory is sufficient 364 days of the year, but absurdly low for the weekend of the MS150. & so, homeshare sites make a killing that weekend.
    • SenHeng 7y ago
      The exception should not make the rule. Your example is one of the few edge cases where AirBnB works. The OP is talking about an everyday situation where AirBnB has instead had a detrimental effect on residents as well as would-be residents.
      • mensetmanusman 7y ago
        This is the type of NIMBYism that is contributing to the housing policy problems. Instead of using nuance and recognizing the good and bad, only the bad is focused on and the proposals are to throw it all out.
        • ppseafield 7y ago
          Generally NIMBYism involves push-back on policies that increase housing density to help more (and generally poorer) people live somewhere. AirBNB without regulation (and enforcement) doesn't help more people live in an area - in fact it removes long term residences from the market in favor of generating more revenue for existing property owners. Reducing the long term housing supply increases demand and prices, thus keeping poorer folks out. Personally I don't mind AirBNB if it's only people renting out rooms in their residences. For instance here in Portland the law requires this. But it's poorly enforced.
• barrkel 7y ago
  Hotels with self catering and a door between living area and sleeping area are scarce on the ground and often overpriced. Even something as simple as a fridge with usable space, not packed with minibar stuff, is hard to find. Hotels aren't very comfortable places to stay.
  • TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Those places you're looking for are called hostels. They're cheaper and there's likely more of them than hotels in any given place. They're also legal and don't break the social contract. EDIT: I'm sorry, I only just realized that "hostel" in Europe means something entirely different from "hostel" in the US. What I mean by "hostel", per how we use this term in Poland, is a cheaper version of a hotel, where you still rent by the room, and rooms are usually 1, 2, and 3-5 people-sized, and usually have kitchen and a bathroom in the room. They're not like dorms, they don't involve shared bunk beds. I don't know what the right term in the US is. Bed&Breakfast?
    • gwbas1c 7y ago
      Extended stay rooms and suites.
    • danaris 7y ago
      > and there's likely more of them than hotels in any given place. Not in America. You might find a few in & near major cities, but hotels and motels are everywhere, bed & breakfasts are fairly common, and AirBnBs are plentiful.
      • XaspR8d 7y ago
        My rule of thumb has been that a US city needs to be at least a million people to have a hostel, and at least 4 million to have more than one.
        • knd775 7y ago
          There are quite a few backpackers hostels in tiny towns along trails like the AT. But that's obviously different than what you're talking about.
• sashimy 7y ago
  Or maybe just read the article, there is a link to a Desertsun article about cameras found in Palm Springs hotel bathroom. Even if there is laws this doesn't mean that hotels are free from pervert.
• ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Or just go to a hotel! This. I'm sorry but there is something inherently wrong about letting a stranger (that isn't a professional, like CDL/chauffeur license/pilot license at a minimum) drive you around and staying in a stranger's home. I'm not at all shocked when people go "I was recorded in an Airbnb!" as, well, yeah it's someone's house... I wouldn't trust anything about it, I'm actually surprised someone hasn't been caught running a voyeurism pay site for their Airbnb yet. And as far as the car services, we already have multiple acts of violence to varying levels. A friend in the past few weeks had to report a driver after he offered her lotion upon picking her up and then before dropping her off started telling her how beautiful she was and how he gives massages at which point she cancelled the ride and got out and a co-worker of mine took an older couple home race weekend (May) and they invited her to come in and use their hot tub... I imagine stuff like this, and far far worse, is quite common and largely unreported.
• nradov 7y ago
  Why does your condo association allow short term rentals?
• benjaminbrodie 7y ago
  It's also an option to stay out in the elements. It's honestly not that hard to make it work.
• hdpq 7y ago
  Are hotels somehow immune to hidden cameras?
  • rodw 7y ago
    Of course not, but: - Hotel rooms are more uniform (and just have less stuff) so a camera is easier to identify or harder to hide. - Hotel rooms are visited not just by many guests but by many staff. If you place a camera you are sort of rolling the dice that no one that works in the hotel (and for example, cleans dozens of nearly identical rooms every day) is going to notice or won't care if they do notice. - Hotels usually have management that cares about their reputation and hence would take direct and indirect measures to prevent someone from placing a camera in one of the rooms (e.g., scrutiny when hiring, limiting access to rooms, acting swiftly and severely when anything like this happens). (AirBnB does not seem to be interested in this sort of policing in particular.) - Many hotels are part of a large chain, which does everything that individual managers do but on a larger and more systematic scale. - It is almost certainly a crime to place an undisclosed camera in a hotel room (while inside someone's AirBnB it may be more of a gray area). This is both a deterrent and (by removing such people from the employee pool) a mitigation strategy. - Beyond being a crime, hotel management and hotel chains are probably subject to lawsuits in the event one of their employees (or an outsider for that matter) successfully plants a camera in one of their rooms. This is also a deterrent and mitigation strategy. I don't really have anything against AirBnB (in moderation) but I do think it is reasonable to assert that an AirBnB room is more likely to contain hidden cameras than the typical reputable hotel room.
• gwbas1c 7y ago
  The post points out that hotels also hide cameras, and when they do, they're usually harder to find
  • blaser-waffle 7y ago
    I heard somewhere the going rate was like 300/bucks per 10 minutes of solid voyeur film when uploaded to certain websites. Plenty of incentive for the small=time airBnB host to set up sketchy cams. Sure, cameras happen in hotels too, but there is a gigantic liability machine -- the hotel company -- which has its ass on the line if there is a camera found; plus it makes their brand look like shit and is a hashtag away from trouble. It also means there is an org to go after with grievances if you find something in a hotel.
• buboard 7y ago
  > Or just go to a hotel! yeah Let them eat cake
  • draw_down 7y ago
    Come on.
• _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
  Same here in Berlin, although it's mostly illegal there are many AirBnB flats because there are no controls. Having drunken students making party all the time isn't very fun.
• alistairSH 7y ago
  Why is your HOA/condo board allowing this? That should be spelled out in the terms of your ownership agreements. Most should disallow short-term rentals.
• pier25 7y ago
  AirBnBs could have some form of noise monitoring and have the system overcharge you when you make too much noise.
  • TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Could. But that would mean AirBnB would have to stop playing the "we're only brokering" game.
• jkoudys 7y ago
  That's great for the people who have an easy time affording their units and can pay a premium for the peace and quiet. I bought in a building that banned airbnb 2 weeks after my purchase. We go away often on weekends or for a 1-month stint each year (my wife's family is overseas), and that extra income would've really helped us make ends meet. Our floor still has to listen to the couple in an abusive marriage scream at each other at 2am several times a week, but at least we don't have strangers asking for sugar or directions to the grocery store, right?
• mrfusion 7y ago
  As another option. What if we banned the disruptive behavior? Maybe neighbors can leave reviews on guests? Maybe a unit can be forced to be delisted with enough complaints? Who knows but automatically banning things isn’t always the answer.
  • jkoudys 7y ago
    What's definitely not the answer is leaving valuable real estate empty. I'm out of town a couple weekends a month, and travel to visit the wife's family overseas for around a month every year. No way to do short term rentals (our building has a 6mo minimum), so a property that could be generating almost $9k/y for us is instead a liability. Extremely frustrating when we're new parents just getting by, and a bunch of wealthy old people or young people who inherited their big ~$800k+ units have made this decision for us. Not saying any complaints about guests are baseless, but they're balancing a small amount of comfort for them against what would be life-changing value for us.
    • TeMPOraL 7y ago
      The problem being solved by a 6mo minimum isn't you renting out your spot for a month every year to help make ends meet. The problem is your slightly wealthier neighbor buying a spare apartment or two in your building in order to run a pirate hotel in it all year long. Unfortunately, it's hard to prevent the latter without blocking the former... ... at least legally. I assume you could work something out for your case with people you know who are in need of a place to stay for vacation, or - at a higher risk - with second-degree connections, or even complete strangers. It's not a perfect solution but it does place the risk where it belongs - on you. You have to make absolutely sure that the guests you invite aren't causing problems, or else someone will rat you out.
• gordaco 7y ago
  As someone living in a "touristy" area, and who has close friends, workmates and relatives who have been evicted because of the ridiculous increase of the rent prices in the last 3 or 4 years, I also seriously hope Airbnb's business model gets relentlessly banned everywhere. I haven't personally experimented sharing a building with an Airbnb rented flat, but I know a few people who have. Saying that they are not happy is an understatement. I've also heard about tenants (normal tenants, i.e. rented by the month) who rented one of the flat's rooms in Airbnb, which in the end caused complains from the neighbours to the flat owner. IIRC this is illegal in my country, but it's not like that is much of a deterrent, apparently. Seriously, fuck Airbnb. They are the number one cause of the decrease in purchasing power and quality of life in my area in the latest year, and believe me, that's saying something.
• georgespencer 7y ago
  Wouldn't it be better to find some way to incentivise good behaviour from people instead of banning something which often allows cheaper, more comfortable stays than hotels, whilst also providing homeowners with a way of making money efficiently from their property?
  • TeMPOraL 7y ago
    It would be, but it's not the world we live in. It's hard to make people behave well (for any definition of "well"), and the way it's usually done involves community - a social structure composed of people who spend significant time together, and which evolves and maintains its own code of conduct. It's easier to mitigate bad behavior. That's why legit hospitality businesses are structured and regulated in a way that "eats" the consequences of bad conduct and doesn't let them leak out. AirBnB did nothing to "find some way to incentivise good behaviour from people"[0], but unleashed those people onto communities that were unprepared to handle the bad behaviour. It's kind of like - wouldn't it be better to find a way to neuter nuclear waste so that it's not dangerous? Yes, it would. But we don't know how to do that, so the next best alternative is to box it up in designated storage locations. AirBnB is essentially letting anyone with a house become a nuclear storage facility, with no care for safe storage. -- [0] - well, they made a rating system, but I think that in 2019, it's universally recognized that rating systems are trivially gameable and generally don't work too well.
• dec0dedab0de 7y ago
  I think buildings and certain communities should definitely ban Airbnb, at least for instances when the host is not staying there with you. Having the city ban it entirely is extreme. There are plenty of locations in (almost?) every city where a B&B could operate without bothering anyone. Why ban something everywhere when it is only a problem in certain places?
• PeterStuer 7y ago
  I have boycotted al these regulation dodge businesses from the start. This is a race to the bottom. And yes, I do consider the customers accomplices.
• randyrand 7y ago
  Not everywhere has hotels.
• sizzle 7y ago
  Is Airbnb not penalizing unruly renters booking through their platform as part of their policy? There should be some way to record if cops are called out for disturbances against their future use of the platform. Platform users should be held accountable for unreasonably disturbing the peace of neighbors period. Random idea: internet connected decibel meter in ceiling or Alexa type device that tracks noise levels above a certain threshold and doesn't record any conversations, just measures decibel levels (100% legal). If consistently above city noise ordinances, renters get fined by Airbnb and ultimately banned if it keeps occurring across bookings. Is this too intrusive? I bet smart speakers can already achieve this functionality. Neighbors should have peaceful enjoyment is my motivation behind the system. Thoughts?
• randomsearch 7y ago
  I agree, except for when you’re staying in someone’s spare room. That seems like a genuinely good idea, and I’ve met some great people and had formative experiences through that. But booking out entire apartments is the problem. My friend lives in London and the block is being overtaken by Airbnb, and it’s making him miserable. Too much noise, too little sleep.