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After 8 years of macbooks, after using the 2018 model, I switched to a Dell Precision 5530 running Ubuntu 18.04 and it is awesome. The hardware is great, and h

After 8 years of macbooks, after using the 2018 model, I switched to a Dell Precision 5530 running Ubuntu 18.04 and it is awesome. The hardware is great, and having Unix under it all was the only real reason I liked Macs (used to be hardware, too). Granted, I don't need Adobe stuff, or anything else that doesn't run or have an alternative on Ubuntu (although it is dual-booted with Win10, but I've never used it, just keep it for when I want to play a game) The Macbook pro 2018 was the worst laptop experience I've had in at least 15+ years. So disappointing, but maybe this will let Unix laptops finally start taking real market share.

noodlesUK 7y ago
The precision 5530 is an absolutely fantastic machine. Best laptop I’ve ever owned. I was a MacBook Pro user since 08, and when it came to replacing the ailing 2013 MBP, I was not at all impressed with what apple had to offer. Fedora was a great experience (using i3, but gnome is pretty nice too), and I haven’t looked back at all. The only downside is that I can’t do iOS development on it, but that can be handled with a VM where necessary. I only wish dell made them with an AMD gpu rather than the Nvidia Optimus garbage.
novembermike 7y ago
Yeah, I'll probably be switching to a Surface Book. I don't mind spending for a premium laptop but I care about it feeling good to use and I just don't like the newer Macbooks.
endymi0n 7y ago
I can only come to the same conclusion. Typing this on a 2018 MacBook 15 inch, and it's a disaster. I still keep accidentally hitting the Touchbar ten times per day while typing (it's not a press-bar, duh), I need a dongle for _everything and their mother_, battery lifetime isn't good, the keyboard is prone to mistyping and double clicks, the screen doesn't get bright enough sometimes, I can't get any higher spec hardware, it really feels like a super expensive toy to me. I'd buy something different if there was a real alternative OS-wise (I feel too old to compile my own kernel for a glitchy wifi driver, and Windows? Nah, get away...)
- docker_up 7y ago
  I recently was forced to upgrade by 2015 laptop at work because the battery life was finally short enough that I couldn't stand it. I hate dongles. The 2015 Macbook will stand as their last best laptop. Nothing about the 2018 laptop is better, it's only worse. I don't understand why they don't see this. There should really be a huge multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit for their keyboards and fixability to wake them up. I'm so angry.
  - mason55 7y ago
    Why didn't you just replace the battery?
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    Obligatory "Benjamin Button Reviews the New MacBook Pro" link (late 2016): https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/ https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the... > Gone is the gimmicky TouchBar, gone are the four USB-C ports that forced power users to carry a suitcase full of dongles. In their place we get a cornucopia of developer-friendly ports: two USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt 2 ports, a redesigned power connector, and a long-awaited HDMI port.
    - adrianhel 7y ago
      Can I have one of those please?
  - snowwolf 7y ago
    Agreed. But you can hack their replacement programs to extend the life of the newer (post 2015) models. There are a few battery replacement programs on MacBook Pro’s (e.g. https://www.apple.com/support/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacement/ https://www.apple.com/support/13inch-macbookpro-battery-repl...) and there is also a keyboard replacement program (https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...). Replacing either practically gives you all new internals because of they way everything is soldered on. I just did that on my 2016 model and it should hopefully last me now a few more years.
sriram_sun 7y ago
I have a late 2013 MacBook pro and the Dell precision 5530 running Ubuntu 16.04. The Precision 5530 is faster for everything except when I'm using it for video conferencing. A regular Hangouts session brings it down to its knees. I will be holding on to my 2013 MacBook pro as long as I can :).
- mrep 7y ago
  I got a maxed out late 2013 MBP and I too am going to hold onto it as long as possible. 4 core i7, 16gb of ram, discrete gpu and it still runs like a champ. The only problem I had was that the battery recently swelled up which caused problems with the touchpad and fans, but apple ended up replacing the battery, keypad, touchpad, and casing for $300 which wasn't too bad considering ifixit wanted like $1,000 bucks for all those parts and now it feels like new.
  - egwor 7y ago
    Me too. I see little reason to upgrade it. I planned to upgrade it two years ago but am still waiting for something that's up to the expected design. More memory (more than 16 gig) would have been nice when I bought it, but that's the max Apple allowed and it can't be upgraded. I've yet to have to replace my battery. I'm hoping that the 2019 edition is worth buying, e.g. this stuff built in: * Escape key * SD card reader * Older USB and new USB C sockets * HDMI out * >1TB SSD * magnetic power adapter I'd also like to see touch screen but let's see. I'd give that up for all the above. I really don't see the point in making the macbook pro an ipad with a keyboard and some extra umpf. They're totally missing the target audience.
    - bashinator 7y ago
      Out of that list, you'll definitely get USB-C sockets and probably the 1TB SSD. I can't see any of the rest of it ever being on a MacBook again.
      - egwor 7y ago
        You're probably right; but it seems odd that the power adapter is such a step back
joezydeco 7y ago
Keeping an updated Win10 on the laptop is a good idea, it makes the unit easier to sell when it’s time to move on. And you don’t want to pay for that twice.
- allset_ 7y ago
  There's really no need to keep Win10 on the laptop. The Win10 license is kept in the UEFI so you can reinstall from a Win10 ISO at any time and it will activate correctly. This even has the added bonus of removing the Dell bloatware from your Windows install.
  - devy 7y ago
    > The Win10 license is kept in the UEFI so you can reinstall from a Win10 ISO at any time and it will activate correctly. Not if Windows 10 detected that you have "major" hardware changes. In which case, your new installation won't be activated (granted, Microsoft doesn't enforce activation on). You may need to extract the license key from UEFI and type it in manually to get activation to work. It's a hassle.
    - eMSF 7y ago
      I got bit by these "major" hardware changes on a computer I'd passed on to my relatives. For whatever reason I had had the onboard Ethernet adapter disabled in BIOS when I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10, and enabling it prevented Windows from activating at all. (FWIW, it was not a laptop.) Unlike in the past, when all you had to do was call in and recite your license key, these days their policy is to accept nothing else but a proof of purchase, which in my case was from almost 10 years prior. Luckily enough, I had it archived.
      - devy 7y ago
        Yeah, the exact definition of "major" hardware change is kept as a secret by Microsoft so that it's not easy to defeat that activation mechanism for pirates. The newer version (version 1511 and above) of Windows 10's digital licenses are essential a private key (as in asymmetric cryptography, called digital entitlement[1], stored in UEFI), as opposed to the a 25-character product key we used before. If for whatever reason the activation program cannot find that key, it won't be activated. [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12440/windows-10-activation https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12440/windows-10-ac... > which in my case was from almost 10 years prior. Luckily enough, I had it archived. If you bought your Windows license online with a Gmail address, Google has you covered. https://myaccount.google.com/purchases https://myaccount.google.com/purchases
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Have a 5520 with 19.04 and very happy with it, with the exception of the 16:9 screen ratio, which is too narrow but common.
danieldk 7y ago
I am still using a MacBook Pro 2018 as my laptop, but do my primary work on an Intel NUC8i5BEH with Linux. I work remotely from my home, so I rarely need the laptop anymore. The NUC has the same quad core Intel i5-8259U, with double the RAM and double the SSD size at approximately a quarter of the price of MacBook Pro. If you don't have an existing screen, you can buy a good Dell HiDPI screen for ~500 Euros. The Linux NUC feels much faster than the MacBook Pro, probably because of faster syscalls on Linux, and generally better optimizations in Linux. But for me the killer feature is NixOS. NixOS has a steep learning curve, but with atomic updates/rollbacks, declarative system configuration, and the ability to have virtualenvs with any package, it is hard to go back to a system that does not have these features. (I use Nix on macOS, but it is more of a gateway drug than the whole experience.) Of course, there are some sharp edges, Bluetooth headset (including Airpods) support is better on macOS, you can't beat Microsoft Office for Office compatibility (duh), and Skype works better on macOS.
- awill 7y ago
  I also work at a company heavily reliant on Microsoft Office. It makes it hard to pick any OS that isn't Windows or Mac. Cloud apps like Google Docs, Hangouts, Slack etc.. were supposed to make the OS less important. It's too bad we're not there yet.
  - ingenieroariel 7y ago
    Maybe first move to using Microsoft apps online?
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    Why not just use Windows then? If you really need *sh and command line tools, just get WSL, msys or cygwin.
  - wyclif 7y ago
    Why don't they use Google Docs instead of MS Office? It's 2019...
    - 7y ago
devy 7y ago
I still consider macOS UI much more superior. Also I love the new MBP with the TouchID integration.
rayiner 7y ago
What’s the battery life like?
- gilbetron 7y ago
  I have the larger battery, and for daily development (including web stuff) usage, I get 10+ hours. Even if I'm doing heavy dev (running test suite, lots of compilation, etc) it drops down to maybe 5-6 at worst.
ridicter 7y ago
I'm a UX engineer who recently switched from Macbook Pro to the Ubuntu version of Dell XPS 13. Now that I use Figma, a web-based design app, I no longer need any Mac-native design software. I am pretty pleased! The XPS 13 has an edge-to-edge display/small footprint, the top of the line whiskey lake processor, 16GB of RAM, and a crazy-good battery life. (I opted for 1080p screen instead of 4k to get that 10+ hr battery life.) All of this for <$1200 with my employer's discount. The equivalent would be 2k+ on a Mac. There have been one or two hiccups worth mentioning: 1) the trackpad, while not terrible, isn't as good as Mac's. 2) Multi-monitor support on Ubuntu hasn't been perfect. I couldn't get 18.04 to work out of the box with my three monitors; however, once I upgraded to Ubuntu 19.04, it worked out of the box. Phew. Pretty happy with this setup!
- copperx 7y ago
  That sounds awesome, except a low resolution screen (1080p) is a no-go in 2019. So far I haven't heard of anyone being pleased with Linux or Windows milquetoast hiDPI support.
tlrobinson 7y ago
What have the biggest annoyances been when switching? I occasionally try switching but always get frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend fussing with graphics drivers, multitouch drivers, keyboard shortcuts, etc, but it's possible that's because I've only really attempted it on Apple hardware.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  I have two System76 Meerkats and a Purism Librem 13, which are an absolute breeze.
- gilbetron 7y ago
  Driver issues were very minimal (had to turn off a power management thing, and use the on board graphics card for most usage), maybe an hour-ish. Otherwise, I was completely shocked how modern the experience is. Honestly, I find it better than the Mac UI because it lets me just get shit done without getting in my way. Keyboard shortcuts are weird, but I was using Windows 10 in the mix as well, so I'm used to that. However, I was never big into the apple ecosystem, so it would be more painful if you have an iphone, ipad, use itunes for everything, etc. I'm in the google ecosystem, so life was crazy easy.
bscphil 7y ago
For running Adobe products, I use Virtualbox running Windows 10 on my Linux laptop. The speed of hypervisors has gotten so good recently I genuinely can't tell the difference over running Windows natively, even though this laptop is 8 years old now. Everything "just works" and so I don't see why which programs you need to run should determine what brand of computer you buy or what OS you run on it, any more. I guess the one exception (other than gaming?) is if you need to run any MacOS only software. (I can't even name any, other than that written by Apple, off the top of my head.) I have Mojave running in Virtualbox, but it's noticeably slower than both Linux natively and Windows 10. That could be the 8 year old laptop thing again.
- wj 7y ago
  My main system is currently a late 2012 maxed out Mac Mini that struggles with Adobe products. I also miss Linux on my desktop so your set up is appealing to me. Looking to use Lightroom, Illustrator, InDesign, and Photoshop. By chance have you passed through a drawing pad?
  - bscphil 7y ago
    I have not, but Virtualbox supposedly supports passing through the USB protocol itself, so I imagine it works; at least it's supposed to work?
    - vetinari 7y ago
      Yes, you can pass USB devices through most hypervisors, including Virtualbox. For example, I tried a smartcard reader inside VM (host: macOS, hypervisor Virtualbox, guest: Windows) and it worked.
- PuffinBlue 7y ago
  I see a huge difference running WIndows in Virtualbox. Possibly because I'm doing everything wrong but it sucks for graphics stuff like Adobe products and I can't even get it to hit 60fps like my standard linux desktop. We're still a way off passing through graphics cards etc in a 'just works' sort of way (yes there's hugely involved ways to get it done) so it's going to be a short while before I could agree with you that Windows VM's are fully ready to replace native installs for situations like mine.
cr0sh 7y ago
> I switched to a Dell Precision 5530 running Ubuntu 18.04 If you want a desktop experience that comes close to MacOS on Ubuntu, give Budgie Desktop a try; it's developed for Solus: https://github.com/solus-project/budgie-desktop https://github.com/solus-project/budgie-desktop ...but is available for Ubuntu - you can install it separately, or as it's own distro: https://ubuntubudgie.org/ https://ubuntubudgie.org/ Note that the 18.04 LTS will have the older version of Budgie and not the latest; the latest version is available with 19.04, but won't be available for LTS until 20.04 - though I am sure there's ways of getting it installed if you really wanted to. I switched to Budgie Ubuntu 18.04 LTS after my super-long-in-the-tooth-modified-to-hell-and-back Ubuntu 14.04 LTS install face-planted after I tried to install a new version of the NVidia proprietary driver using a very hacked and patched together gcc setup (something I did for an online MOOC where I needed a greater version of C++ than 14.04 supported - not the smartest thing I ever did, but it worked well for a while, and long enough to complete the MOOC). My 14.04 install started with a Minimal version, then I built it up from there to a look-and-workalike Crunchbang (#!) system. This was done just after #! ceased being supported (after I had played with it and liked it), but before the community picked up the pieces (ultimately resulting in Bunsen Labs distro). It worked well, but after it finally fell over, I decided I wanted to go a different route on a new install - and Budgie Linux with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS is where I ended up. I couldn't be happier; it allows me a desktop experience that I swear is very close to what I have on the MBP I use at my employer, but I have customized my own way (though I did grab a set of SVGs for a better looking trashcan for Plank). I also had to write a new wallpaper switcher (in python) as I didn't like anything as well that exists. Minor things, though. Overall, it's a great desktop - gives me some freedom to play, but is still beautiful and highly functional. One thing I'll never do again, though, is install anything that isn't "standalone" in /home or a "deb" package (or something like AppImages); anything that must be compiled from source will either be made into a package to install, or I'll put it on a VM (that's what ultimately led to my old system falling over - too much crap in too many places without any kind of tracking, etc - my fault, ultimately).
- computerex 7y ago
  Manjaro i3 version running Pantheon and Gala, for me :) I love it more than MacOS.
bayareanative 7y ago
Lenovo T480 hackintosh here.
- lukestevens 7y ago
  What has the hackintosh experience been like for you?
  - FractalParadigm 7y ago
    I've been running macOS on both my XPS 15 (9550) and desktop (Haswell i3 based w/ Nvidia graphics). The experience is good on both systems but they definitely have their caveats. The XPS is probably the most positive experience thus far, it'ss a 9550 with i7/16GB RAM/1TB NVMe/GTX 960/4K. It's currently running Mojave 10.14.3, everything except the SD Card reader and Nvidia GPU work (including the touchscreen, WiFi OOTB, Bluetooth, etc.). The GPU really isn't a problem, Intel graphics work with full acceleration and anything GPU-heavy gets done on the desktop. Helps with battery life too; my system's battery health is down to ~45% but I can still squeeze out a good 4 hours from it. It's not very well supported, you really gotta stay on top of updates and be ready to fix what breaks, but when it's running it's a dream to use. The desktop on the other hand is a completely different beast. It's got an i3-4150/8GB RAM/GTX 980 and currently running High Sierra 10.13.6 (because of a lack on Nvidia drivers in Mojave). Getting it setup was a little bit of work, the WiFi/Bluetooth card needed an enabler kext and audio needs a bootloader tweak to work, otherwise it's functionally indestinguishable to a legitimate Mac; It can even be updated through the Mac App Store, iCloud/iMessage works, Handoff works.
  - swozey 7y ago
    I personally wouldn't build one again. I've built 4 in my life and my last one was High Sierra (last year is when I stopped using it). It'll run great (NOT problem free) for 6 months; just enough time to forget everything you learned over the entire weekend you dedicated to initially getting it working, then update or something will break and you have to dive back into the tonyx86/etc rabbit hole for another entire day or an entire weekend. Look at what he said, it's great when it works. That's the problem. Stuff will usually still "work" but your video drivers will drop your resolution to 640 and you have to fight with that and try new kexts, sometimes your sound will flake and you'll research how to fix it, etc. If your time is remotely valuable and you want your personal equipment to just "work" and not have to be tinkered with it's unpleasant. That's why I was so excited the Mini finally got updates, but that doesn't really work with egpus so I wound up just going back to my MBP.
loeg 7y ago
I'm not defending the Macbook -- I can happily say I have not used a recent model one -- but for additional perspective on Dell laptop keyboards, I absolutely hate the keyboard on my 15"-16" Dell Precision provided by my employer. The keys are oddly far apart compared to a conventional desktop keyboard. I struggle to type with any accuracy on the builtin keyboard -- especially for things like entering my password, where mistakes are hidden. Full disclosure: I am a Dell employee and obviously these views are my own and not that of Dell.
apl002 7y ago
i refuse to let go of my 2015 model because i can't stand the new ones. Not sure what I am going to do when it stops receiving new OS upgrades
- wwweston 7y ago
  My unibody/pre-retina mid-2012 is still getting them (and I'm still using it, because it's the last/best machine that still had a truly matte screen!), so you're probably safe for a few more cycles.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Based on historical evidence, you'll likely get updates for another half decade or so.
billylindeman 7y ago
Smiliar boat except with a lenovo x1 extreme. After typing on my lenovo for 1 day going back to my macbook pro retina feels like an absolute disaster. It's like we've been gaslit by apple to believe these computers are good. They're not. They're complete trash
marmaduke 7y ago
Were drivers a problem? Did you run into any problems with the nvme SSD? I tried booting Opensuse but it couldn’t see the SSD. Maybe I just need to try Ubuntu.
- gilbetron 7y ago
  Basically no, but I did this to fix up an intermittent lock up bug: https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ubuntu-18-04-woes-f52e7f850f3d https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ub... No problems with the nvme ssd that I've noticed. I went with Ubuntu because Dell ships with Ubuntu as an option, so I figured they worked the kinks out :)
  - marmaduke 7y ago
    thanks for the reply, you inspired me to grab Ubuntu 18.04, put it on a usb key and boot my 5530, but alas it doesn't recognize the NVMe disk. There's a single line from dmesg about remmapping a NVMe disk, but Nothing on fdisk -l. What version of Ubuntu are you running? Is it produced by Dell or the generic release? edit nevermind I found a fix: in the BIOS (F2 while booting), I needed to set System Config -> SATA Operation -> AHCI. With that, the nvme is found just fine.
umvi 7y ago
Macs used to be for hackers, but now they are too mainstream
muyuu 7y ago
Any issues with that model? I'm thinking of doing a similar switch but I really don't want to be fighting driver and compatibility issues.
- gilbetron 7y ago
  I was having a one-a-day random lockup, that was fixed by this: https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ubuntu-18-04-woes-f52e7f850f3d https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ub... After that, it's been awesome. While inch-for-inch I like Mac trackpads the best, I hated the giant trackpad on the current macbook line, and the Dell trackpad is the right size and probably 95% as good. I don't care too much about not having all of the swipe shortcuts Mac has, so I didn't try to get more working on Ubuntu, but that could be a pain if you are into them. (Ubuntu has two-finger support out of the box that works great). I was really pleased that closing the screen and opening it works just as well as Macs for suspending and resuming. Win10 does subpar at that. The UI isn't quite as smooth as Mac, but it is still very smooth and easy. Just like the Dell 5530 isn't as thin as the current Mac, it is totally thin enough. Apple is just polishing for the sake of polishing at this point. Plus, I have Ubuntu underneath, which makes it awesome for more line of work (software guy, call it "full stack", I do all kinds of stuff, but all Linux-based).
  - muyuu 7y ago
    One thing that's holding me back is that my early 2014 maxed-out 13in Macbook Pro model is still pretty great. I find it better than the 2018 I use at work. Better keyboard, MUCH better trackpad (although I'm using the mouse more these days) and performance-wise, I barely notice any difference... The battery is nearly dead. Maybe worth it for me to have it serviced and just keep using it for some more time.
swah 7y ago
I'm using Ubuntu, which hasn't really changed in the last 5 years or so (gah the Ambiance theme), and still find the GUI super limited, slow, ugly, bad fonts, etc. IMO its inferior to macOS and Windows by miles.
- ozkan 7y ago
  Try Pop_OS
  - vlunkr 7y ago
    try /r/unixporn. SFW despite the title. It's a community of people who spend time making (mostly) Linux desktops that look incredible
    - swah 7y ago
      I remember when compiling a window manager written in haskell was exciting - I have a newborn here now and must prioritize ;)
sitkack 7y ago
Come on, didn't you have a Dell Inspiron 8000? Those things were the Macbook Pro of the day, sexy and horrible with BSODS due to flexing motherboards and gorgeous 1600x1200 displays.
- gilbetron 7y ago
  My previous worse experience was on a Dell, actually :) Forget the model, but it was a 17" monster and horribly unstable with a crap keyboard and dim display. But that was back in the early 2000s, and I'm shocked it's Apple that gave me an experience that was nearly as bad.
satysin 7y ago
On the flip side I switched from a Dell (XPS 15 9570) to a MacBook Pro 2018 15" last August after multiple issues with the Dell. I've not had a single issue with the MacBook Pro yet. Not a single crash/kernel panic, no keyboard issues, no T2 or TouchBar issues. I open the laptop in the morning and it wakes from sleep and works all day. I almost only ever reboot it for system updates that require it so usually every 4-6 weeks. I'm not super keen on the keyboard but it honestly isn't horrible to type on. I do worry about reliability though. However I am at almost 300 days of zero problems where I had issues with my XPS out of the box that seems are still not fixed having looked at /r/Dell on reddit recently. Shocking that Dell have taken close to a year and things like speaker pops are not resolved. I also had a ThinkPad but sadly Lenovos quality control isn't what it used to be and the two units I received had hardware defects. And with modern ThinkPads being less serviceable (the new T series has soldered RAM, CPU and WiFi?!) I can see even Lenovo starting to go the Apple way with soldered storage within two years. Also while I do no deny Apple screwed up with the butterfly keyboard I do feel all the attention being on Apple is a little unfair and can lead people to think Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft are much more reliable which just isn't true in my experience. In the past few years Microsoft's Surface line has without question been the worst laptop experience I have ever had with software and hardware issues not to mention even less repairability than Apple laptops!
- spronkey 7y ago
  The attention on Apple really isn't unfair when you a) compare their 2016+ machines to their 2015 ones, and b) dig a little deeper into some of the design flaws of the machines beyond the keyboard. For example: * The trackpad on 2016+ models is too large for many users who experience palm rejection issues. * The display cable on 2016 and 2017 machines was too short, and is now starting to cause the issue known as "flexgate". It's almost a given that with enough use, every one of these machines will suffer this failure. To make matters worse, unlike the 2015 machines where the display cable could be replaced on its own, the entire display assembly is glued together on 2016+ machines and has to be replaced as a whole unit. * Stupid electrical decisions such as putting pins for high voltage backlight power and low voltage data signalling right next to eachother mean that there's a good chance the machine will fry itself if it gets at all humid inside (most machines do at some stage, especially if used on a lap). Most other notebooks do not do this and are much more durable in this regard. * The storage being soldered is fucking braindead. Apart from being planned obsolescence due to NAND flash's finite lifespan and macOS's increasing hunger for storage space, data recovery is not possible without a proprietary system to connect to a lifeboat port on 2016-2017 machines. 2018 machines have no such port and at this stage, there is no known way to recover data from working flash chips on a dead logic board without board-level repair. Apple made far better computers in 2015. The competition also being shit doesn't excuse Apple's regressions.
j7ake 7y ago
I think the craziest thing is that the newer macbooks have worse battery life than the 2015 macbooks.
loop0 7y ago
I recently upgraded my computer at work, and instead of going for a beefier laptop I opted to build an AMD Ryzen 7 2700 machine, and I could never been happier, running Fedora on it is many many times faster than any laptop out there. The build only costed $900 and the specs are far superior than what I would get for a laptop on that price range. Since most of the time I spend at my desk programming I feel it was a good move, and when I have to go to meetings I have my Surface Pro 6 which serves me very well on that purpose.

noodlesUK 7y ago

The precision 5530 is an absolutely fantastic machine. Best laptop I’ve ever owned. I was a MacBook Pro user since 08, and when it came to replacing the ailing 2013 MBP, I was not at all impressed with what apple had to offer. Fedora was a great experience (using i3, but gnome is pretty nice too), and I haven’t looked back at all. The only downside is that I can’t do iOS development on it, but that can be handled with a VM where necessary. I only wish dell made them with an AMD gpu rather than the Nvidia Optimus garbage.

novembermike 7y ago

Yeah, I'll probably be switching to a Surface Book. I don't mind spending for a premium laptop but I care about it feeling good to use and I just don't like the newer Macbooks.

endymi0n 7y ago

I can only come to the same conclusion. Typing this on a 2018 MacBook 15 inch, and it's a disaster. I still keep accidentally hitting the Touchbar ten times per day while typing (it's not a press-bar, duh), I need a dongle for _everything and their mother_, battery lifetime isn't good, the keyboard is prone to mistyping and double clicks, the screen doesn't get bright enough sometimes, I can't get any higher spec hardware, it really feels like a super expensive toy to me. I'd buy something different if there was a real alternative OS-wise (I feel too old to compile my own kernel for a glitchy wifi driver, and Windows? Nah, get away...)

docker_up 7y ago
I recently was forced to upgrade by 2015 laptop at work because the battery life was finally short enough that I couldn't stand it. I hate dongles. The 2015 Macbook will stand as their last best laptop. Nothing about the 2018 laptop is better, it's only worse. I don't understand why they don't see this. There should really be a huge multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit for their keyboards and fixability to wake them up. I'm so angry.
- mason55 7y ago
  Why didn't you just replace the battery?
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  Obligatory "Benjamin Button Reviews the New MacBook Pro" link (late 2016): https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/ https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the... > Gone is the gimmicky TouchBar, gone are the four USB-C ports that forced power users to carry a suitcase full of dongles. In their place we get a cornucopia of developer-friendly ports: two USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt 2 ports, a redesigned power connector, and a long-awaited HDMI port.
  - adrianhel 7y ago
    Can I have one of those please?
- snowwolf 7y ago
  Agreed. But you can hack their replacement programs to extend the life of the newer (post 2015) models. There are a few battery replacement programs on MacBook Pro’s (e.g. https://www.apple.com/support/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacement/ https://www.apple.com/support/13inch-macbookpro-battery-repl...) and there is also a keyboard replacement program (https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...). Replacing either practically gives you all new internals because of they way everything is soldered on. I just did that on my 2016 model and it should hopefully last me now a few more years.

sriram_sun 7y ago

I have a late 2013 MacBook pro and the Dell precision 5530 running Ubuntu 16.04. The Precision 5530 is faster for everything except when I'm using it for video conferencing. A regular Hangouts session brings it down to its knees. I will be holding on to my 2013 MacBook pro as long as I can :).

mrep 7y ago
I got a maxed out late 2013 MBP and I too am going to hold onto it as long as possible. 4 core i7, 16gb of ram, discrete gpu and it still runs like a champ. The only problem I had was that the battery recently swelled up which caused problems with the touchpad and fans, but apple ended up replacing the battery, keypad, touchpad, and casing for $300 which wasn't too bad considering ifixit wanted like $1,000 bucks for all those parts and now it feels like new.
- egwor 7y ago
  Me too. I see little reason to upgrade it. I planned to upgrade it two years ago but am still waiting for something that's up to the expected design. More memory (more than 16 gig) would have been nice when I bought it, but that's the max Apple allowed and it can't be upgraded. I've yet to have to replace my battery. I'm hoping that the 2019 edition is worth buying, e.g. this stuff built in: * Escape key * SD card reader * Older USB and new USB C sockets * HDMI out * >1TB SSD * magnetic power adapter I'd also like to see touch screen but let's see. I'd give that up for all the above. I really don't see the point in making the macbook pro an ipad with a keyboard and some extra umpf. They're totally missing the target audience.
  - bashinator 7y ago
    Out of that list, you'll definitely get USB-C sockets and probably the 1TB SSD. I can't see any of the rest of it ever being on a MacBook again.
    - egwor 7y ago
      You're probably right; but it seems odd that the power adapter is such a step back

joezydeco 7y ago

Keeping an updated Win10 on the laptop is a good idea, it makes the unit easier to sell when it’s time to move on. And you don’t want to pay for that twice.

allset_ 7y ago
There's really no need to keep Win10 on the laptop. The Win10 license is kept in the UEFI so you can reinstall from a Win10 ISO at any time and it will activate correctly. This even has the added bonus of removing the Dell bloatware from your Windows install.
- devy 7y ago
  > The Win10 license is kept in the UEFI so you can reinstall from a Win10 ISO at any time and it will activate correctly. Not if Windows 10 detected that you have "major" hardware changes. In which case, your new installation won't be activated (granted, Microsoft doesn't enforce activation on). You may need to extract the license key from UEFI and type it in manually to get activation to work. It's a hassle.
  - eMSF 7y ago
    I got bit by these "major" hardware changes on a computer I'd passed on to my relatives. For whatever reason I had had the onboard Ethernet adapter disabled in BIOS when I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10, and enabling it prevented Windows from activating at all. (FWIW, it was not a laptop.) Unlike in the past, when all you had to do was call in and recite your license key, these days their policy is to accept nothing else but a proof of purchase, which in my case was from almost 10 years prior. Luckily enough, I had it archived.
    - devy 7y ago
      Yeah, the exact definition of "major" hardware change is kept as a secret by Microsoft so that it's not easy to defeat that activation mechanism for pirates. The newer version (version 1511 and above) of Windows 10's digital licenses are essential a private key (as in asymmetric cryptography, called digital entitlement[1], stored in UEFI), as opposed to the a 25-character product key we used before. If for whatever reason the activation program cannot find that key, it won't be activated. [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12440/windows-10-activation https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12440/windows-10-ac... > which in my case was from almost 10 years prior. Luckily enough, I had it archived. If you bought your Windows license online with a Gmail address, Google has you covered. https://myaccount.google.com/purchases https://myaccount.google.com/purchases

mixmastamyk 7y ago

Have a 5520 with 19.04 and very happy with it, with the exception of the 16:9 screen ratio, which is too narrow but common.

danieldk 7y ago

I am still using a MacBook Pro 2018 as my laptop, but do my primary work on an Intel NUC8i5BEH with Linux. I work remotely from my home, so I rarely need the laptop anymore. The NUC has the same quad core Intel i5-8259U, with double the RAM and double the SSD size at approximately a quarter of the price of MacBook Pro. If you don't have an existing screen, you can buy a good Dell HiDPI screen for ~500 Euros. The Linux NUC feels much faster than the MacBook Pro, probably because of faster syscalls on Linux, and generally better optimizations in Linux. But for me the killer feature is NixOS. NixOS has a steep learning curve, but with atomic updates/rollbacks, declarative system configuration, and the ability to have virtualenvs with any package, it is hard to go back to a system that does not have these features. (I use Nix on macOS, but it is more of a gateway drug than the whole experience.) Of course, there are some sharp edges, Bluetooth headset (including Airpods) support is better on macOS, you can't beat Microsoft Office for Office compatibility (duh), and Skype works better on macOS.

awill 7y ago
I also work at a company heavily reliant on Microsoft Office. It makes it hard to pick any OS that isn't Windows or Mac. Cloud apps like Google Docs, Hangouts, Slack etc.. were supposed to make the OS less important. It's too bad we're not there yet.
- ingenieroariel 7y ago
  Maybe first move to using Microsoft apps online?
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Why not just use Windows then? If you really need *sh and command line tools, just get WSL, msys or cygwin.
- wyclif 7y ago
  Why don't they use Google Docs instead of MS Office? It's 2019...
  - 7y ago

devy 7y ago

I still consider macOS UI much more superior. Also I love the new MBP with the TouchID integration.

rayiner 7y ago

What’s the battery life like?

gilbetron 7y ago
I have the larger battery, and for daily development (including web stuff) usage, I get 10+ hours. Even if I'm doing heavy dev (running test suite, lots of compilation, etc) it drops down to maybe 5-6 at worst.

ridicter 7y ago

I'm a UX engineer who recently switched from Macbook Pro to the Ubuntu version of Dell XPS 13. Now that I use Figma, a web-based design app, I no longer need any Mac-native design software. I am pretty pleased! The XPS 13 has an edge-to-edge display/small footprint, the top of the line whiskey lake processor, 16GB of RAM, and a crazy-good battery life. (I opted for 1080p screen instead of 4k to get that 10+ hr battery life.) All of this for <$1200 with my employer's discount. The equivalent would be 2k+ on a Mac. There have been one or two hiccups worth mentioning: 1) the trackpad, while not terrible, isn't as good as Mac's. 2) Multi-monitor support on Ubuntu hasn't been perfect. I couldn't get 18.04 to work out of the box with my three monitors; however, once I upgraded to Ubuntu 19.04, it worked out of the box. Phew. Pretty happy with this setup!

copperx 7y ago
That sounds awesome, except a low resolution screen (1080p) is a no-go in 2019. So far I haven't heard of anyone being pleased with Linux or Windows milquetoast hiDPI support.

tlrobinson 7y ago

What have the biggest annoyances been when switching? I occasionally try switching but always get frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend fussing with graphics drivers, multitouch drivers, keyboard shortcuts, etc, but it's possible that's because I've only really attempted it on Apple hardware.

vinceguidry 7y ago
I have two System76 Meerkats and a Purism Librem 13, which are an absolute breeze.
gilbetron 7y ago
Driver issues were very minimal (had to turn off a power management thing, and use the on board graphics card for most usage), maybe an hour-ish. Otherwise, I was completely shocked how modern the experience is. Honestly, I find it better than the Mac UI because it lets me just get shit done without getting in my way. Keyboard shortcuts are weird, but I was using Windows 10 in the mix as well, so I'm used to that. However, I was never big into the apple ecosystem, so it would be more painful if you have an iphone, ipad, use itunes for everything, etc. I'm in the google ecosystem, so life was crazy easy.

bscphil 7y ago

For running Adobe products, I use Virtualbox running Windows 10 on my Linux laptop. The speed of hypervisors has gotten so good recently I genuinely can't tell the difference over running Windows natively, even though this laptop is 8 years old now. Everything "just works" and so I don't see why which programs you need to run should determine what brand of computer you buy or what OS you run on it, any more. I guess the one exception (other than gaming?) is if you need to run any MacOS only software. (I can't even name any, other than that written by Apple, off the top of my head.) I have Mojave running in Virtualbox, but it's noticeably slower than both Linux natively and Windows 10. That could be the 8 year old laptop thing again.

wj 7y ago
My main system is currently a late 2012 maxed out Mac Mini that struggles with Adobe products. I also miss Linux on my desktop so your set up is appealing to me. Looking to use Lightroom, Illustrator, InDesign, and Photoshop. By chance have you passed through a drawing pad?
- bscphil 7y ago
  I have not, but Virtualbox supposedly supports passing through the USB protocol itself, so I imagine it works; at least it's supposed to work?
  - vetinari 7y ago
    Yes, you can pass USB devices through most hypervisors, including Virtualbox. For example, I tried a smartcard reader inside VM (host: macOS, hypervisor Virtualbox, guest: Windows) and it worked.
PuffinBlue 7y ago
I see a huge difference running WIndows in Virtualbox. Possibly because I'm doing everything wrong but it sucks for graphics stuff like Adobe products and I can't even get it to hit 60fps like my standard linux desktop. We're still a way off passing through graphics cards etc in a 'just works' sort of way (yes there's hugely involved ways to get it done) so it's going to be a short while before I could agree with you that Windows VM's are fully ready to replace native installs for situations like mine.

cr0sh 7y ago

> I switched to a Dell Precision 5530 running Ubuntu 18.04 If you want a desktop experience that comes close to MacOS on Ubuntu, give Budgie Desktop a try; it's developed for Solus: https://github.com/solus-project/budgie-desktop https://github.com/solus-project/budgie-desktop ...but is available for Ubuntu - you can install it separately, or as it's own distro: https://ubuntubudgie.org/ https://ubuntubudgie.org/ Note that the 18.04 LTS will have the older version of Budgie and not the latest; the latest version is available with 19.04, but won't be available for LTS until 20.04 - though I am sure there's ways of getting it installed if you really wanted to. I switched to Budgie Ubuntu 18.04 LTS after my super-long-in-the-tooth-modified-to-hell-and-back Ubuntu 14.04 LTS install face-planted after I tried to install a new version of the NVidia proprietary driver using a very hacked and patched together gcc setup (something I did for an online MOOC where I needed a greater version of C++ than 14.04 supported - not the smartest thing I ever did, but it worked well for a while, and long enough to complete the MOOC). My 14.04 install started with a Minimal version, then I built it up from there to a look-and-workalike Crunchbang (#!) system. This was done just after #! ceased being supported (after I had played with it and liked it), but before the community picked up the pieces (ultimately resulting in Bunsen Labs distro). It worked well, but after it finally fell over, I decided I wanted to go a different route on a new install - and Budgie Linux with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS is where I ended up. I couldn't be happier; it allows me a desktop experience that I swear is very close to what I have on the MBP I use at my employer, but I have customized my own way (though I did grab a set of SVGs for a better looking trashcan for Plank). I also had to write a new wallpaper switcher (in python) as I didn't like anything as well that exists. Minor things, though. Overall, it's a great desktop - gives me some freedom to play, but is still beautiful and highly functional. One thing I'll never do again, though, is install anything that isn't "standalone" in /home or a "deb" package (or something like AppImages); anything that must be compiled from source will either be made into a package to install, or I'll put it on a VM (that's what ultimately led to my old system falling over - too much crap in too many places without any kind of tracking, etc - my fault, ultimately).

computerex 7y ago
Manjaro i3 version running Pantheon and Gala, for me :) I love it more than MacOS.

bayareanative 7y ago

Lenovo T480 hackintosh here.

lukestevens 7y ago
What has the hackintosh experience been like for you?
- FractalParadigm 7y ago
  I've been running macOS on both my XPS 15 (9550) and desktop (Haswell i3 based w/ Nvidia graphics). The experience is good on both systems but they definitely have their caveats. The XPS is probably the most positive experience thus far, it'ss a 9550 with i7/16GB RAM/1TB NVMe/GTX 960/4K. It's currently running Mojave 10.14.3, everything except the SD Card reader and Nvidia GPU work (including the touchscreen, WiFi OOTB, Bluetooth, etc.). The GPU really isn't a problem, Intel graphics work with full acceleration and anything GPU-heavy gets done on the desktop. Helps with battery life too; my system's battery health is down to ~45% but I can still squeeze out a good 4 hours from it. It's not very well supported, you really gotta stay on top of updates and be ready to fix what breaks, but when it's running it's a dream to use. The desktop on the other hand is a completely different beast. It's got an i3-4150/8GB RAM/GTX 980 and currently running High Sierra 10.13.6 (because of a lack on Nvidia drivers in Mojave). Getting it setup was a little bit of work, the WiFi/Bluetooth card needed an enabler kext and audio needs a bootloader tweak to work, otherwise it's functionally indestinguishable to a legitimate Mac; It can even be updated through the Mac App Store, iCloud/iMessage works, Handoff works.
- swozey 7y ago
  I personally wouldn't build one again. I've built 4 in my life and my last one was High Sierra (last year is when I stopped using it). It'll run great (NOT problem free) for 6 months; just enough time to forget everything you learned over the entire weekend you dedicated to initially getting it working, then update or something will break and you have to dive back into the tonyx86/etc rabbit hole for another entire day or an entire weekend. Look at what he said, it's great when it works. That's the problem. Stuff will usually still "work" but your video drivers will drop your resolution to 640 and you have to fight with that and try new kexts, sometimes your sound will flake and you'll research how to fix it, etc. If your time is remotely valuable and you want your personal equipment to just "work" and not have to be tinkered with it's unpleasant. That's why I was so excited the Mini finally got updates, but that doesn't really work with egpus so I wound up just going back to my MBP.

loeg 7y ago

I'm not defending the Macbook -- I can happily say I have not used a recent model one -- but for additional perspective on Dell laptop keyboards, I absolutely hate the keyboard on my 15"-16" Dell Precision provided by my employer. The keys are oddly far apart compared to a conventional desktop keyboard. I struggle to type with any accuracy on the builtin keyboard -- especially for things like entering my password, where mistakes are hidden. Full disclosure: I am a Dell employee and obviously these views are my own and not that of Dell.

apl002 7y ago

i refuse to let go of my 2015 model because i can't stand the new ones. Not sure what I am going to do when it stops receiving new OS upgrades

wwweston 7y ago
My unibody/pre-retina mid-2012 is still getting them (and I'm still using it, because it's the last/best machine that still had a truly matte screen!), so you're probably safe for a few more cycles.
saagarjha 7y ago
Based on historical evidence, you'll likely get updates for another half decade or so.

billylindeman 7y ago

Smiliar boat except with a lenovo x1 extreme. After typing on my lenovo for 1 day going back to my macbook pro retina feels like an absolute disaster. It's like we've been gaslit by apple to believe these computers are good. They're not. They're complete trash

marmaduke 7y ago

Were drivers a problem? Did you run into any problems with the nvme SSD? I tried booting Opensuse but it couldn’t see the SSD. Maybe I just need to try Ubuntu.

gilbetron 7y ago
Basically no, but I did this to fix up an intermittent lock up bug: https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ubuntu-18-04-woes-f52e7f850f3d https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ub... No problems with the nvme ssd that I've noticed. I went with Ubuntu because Dell ships with Ubuntu as an option, so I figured they worked the kinks out :)
- marmaduke 7y ago
  thanks for the reply, you inspired me to grab Ubuntu 18.04, put it on a usb key and boot my 5530, but alas it doesn't recognize the NVMe disk. There's a single line from dmesg about remmapping a NVMe disk, but Nothing on fdisk -l. What version of Ubuntu are you running? Is it produced by Dell or the generic release? edit nevermind I found a fix: in the BIOS (F2 while booting), I needed to set System Config -> SATA Operation -> AHCI. With that, the nvme is found just fine.

umvi 7y ago

Macs used to be for hackers, but now they are too mainstream

muyuu 7y ago

Any issues with that model? I'm thinking of doing a similar switch but I really don't want to be fighting driver and compatibility issues.

gilbetron 7y ago
I was having a one-a-day random lockup, that was fixed by this: https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ubuntu-18-04-woes-f52e7f850f3d https://medium.com/@agathver/nvidia-gpu-optimus-prime-and-ub... After that, it's been awesome. While inch-for-inch I like Mac trackpads the best, I hated the giant trackpad on the current macbook line, and the Dell trackpad is the right size and probably 95% as good. I don't care too much about not having all of the swipe shortcuts Mac has, so I didn't try to get more working on Ubuntu, but that could be a pain if you are into them. (Ubuntu has two-finger support out of the box that works great). I was really pleased that closing the screen and opening it works just as well as Macs for suspending and resuming. Win10 does subpar at that. The UI isn't quite as smooth as Mac, but it is still very smooth and easy. Just like the Dell 5530 isn't as thin as the current Mac, it is totally thin enough. Apple is just polishing for the sake of polishing at this point. Plus, I have Ubuntu underneath, which makes it awesome for more line of work (software guy, call it "full stack", I do all kinds of stuff, but all Linux-based).
- muyuu 7y ago
  One thing that's holding me back is that my early 2014 maxed-out 13in Macbook Pro model is still pretty great. I find it better than the 2018 I use at work. Better keyboard, MUCH better trackpad (although I'm using the mouse more these days) and performance-wise, I barely notice any difference... The battery is nearly dead. Maybe worth it for me to have it serviced and just keep using it for some more time.

swah 7y ago

I'm using Ubuntu, which hasn't really changed in the last 5 years or so (gah the Ambiance theme), and still find the GUI super limited, slow, ugly, bad fonts, etc. IMO its inferior to macOS and Windows by miles.

ozkan 7y ago
Try Pop_OS
- vlunkr 7y ago
  try /r/unixporn. SFW despite the title. It's a community of people who spend time making (mostly) Linux desktops that look incredible
  - swah 7y ago
    I remember when compiling a window manager written in haskell was exciting - I have a newborn here now and must prioritize ;)

sitkack 7y ago

Come on, didn't you have a Dell Inspiron 8000? Those things were the Macbook Pro of the day, sexy and horrible with BSODS due to flexing motherboards and gorgeous 1600x1200 displays.

gilbetron 7y ago
My previous worse experience was on a Dell, actually :) Forget the model, but it was a 17" monster and horribly unstable with a crap keyboard and dim display. But that was back in the early 2000s, and I'm shocked it's Apple that gave me an experience that was nearly as bad.

satysin 7y ago

On the flip side I switched from a Dell (XPS 15 9570) to a MacBook Pro 2018 15" last August after multiple issues with the Dell. I've not had a single issue with the MacBook Pro yet. Not a single crash/kernel panic, no keyboard issues, no T2 or TouchBar issues. I open the laptop in the morning and it wakes from sleep and works all day. I almost only ever reboot it for system updates that require it so usually every 4-6 weeks. I'm not super keen on the keyboard but it honestly isn't horrible to type on. I do worry about reliability though. However I am at almost 300 days of zero problems where I had issues with my XPS out of the box that seems are still not fixed having looked at /r/Dell on reddit recently. Shocking that Dell have taken close to a year and things like speaker pops are not resolved. I also had a ThinkPad but sadly Lenovos quality control isn't what it used to be and the two units I received had hardware defects. And with modern ThinkPads being less serviceable (the new T series has soldered RAM, CPU and WiFi?!) I can see even Lenovo starting to go the Apple way with soldered storage within two years. Also while I do no deny Apple screwed up with the butterfly keyboard I do feel all the attention being on Apple is a little unfair and can lead people to think Dell, Lenovo, Microsoft are much more reliable which just isn't true in my experience. In the past few years Microsoft's Surface line has without question been the worst laptop experience I have ever had with software and hardware issues not to mention even less repairability than Apple laptops!

spronkey 7y ago
The attention on Apple really isn't unfair when you a) compare their 2016+ machines to their 2015 ones, and b) dig a little deeper into some of the design flaws of the machines beyond the keyboard. For example: * The trackpad on 2016+ models is too large for many users who experience palm rejection issues. * The display cable on 2016 and 2017 machines was too short, and is now starting to cause the issue known as "flexgate". It's almost a given that with enough use, every one of these machines will suffer this failure. To make matters worse, unlike the 2015 machines where the display cable could be replaced on its own, the entire display assembly is glued together on 2016+ machines and has to be replaced as a whole unit. * Stupid electrical decisions such as putting pins for high voltage backlight power and low voltage data signalling right next to eachother mean that there's a good chance the machine will fry itself if it gets at all humid inside (most machines do at some stage, especially if used on a lap). Most other notebooks do not do this and are much more durable in this regard. * The storage being soldered is fucking braindead. Apart from being planned obsolescence due to NAND flash's finite lifespan and macOS's increasing hunger for storage space, data recovery is not possible without a proprietary system to connect to a lifeboat port on 2016-2017 machines. 2018 machines have no such port and at this stage, there is no known way to recover data from working flash chips on a dead logic board without board-level repair. Apple made far better computers in 2015. The competition also being shit doesn't excuse Apple's regressions.

j7ake 7y ago

I think the craziest thing is that the newer macbooks have worse battery life than the 2015 macbooks.

loop0 7y ago

I recently upgraded my computer at work, and instead of going for a beefier laptop I opted to build an AMD Ryzen 7 2700 machine, and I could never been happier, running Fedora on it is many many times faster than any laptop out there. The build only costed $900 and the specs are far superior than what I would get for a laptop on that price range. Since most of the time I spend at my desk programming I feel it was a good move, and when I have to go to meetings I have my Surface Pro 6 which serves me very well on that purpose.