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Beyond Meat S-1
- morley 8y agoI have a stupid question: was there a regulatory change in the recent past that made it easier to file for IPOs? Or is this just a coincidence that all these S-1s were filed around the same time?
- gdsdfe 8y agoIt's just a good time to file, the end of 10 year bull market right before next year's recession
- colinbartlett 8y agoI find it amusing how confidently you state that. As if completely ignoring all the people who have said that same thing every year for the past 5.
- gdsdfe 8y agoSo you think it will be an indefinite bull market or that the recession won't happen next year?
- evanriley 8y agoThere obviously won't be an indefinite bull market, but why are you so confident it will happen next year?
- gdsdfe 8y agoI am not, nobody is ... But a lot of people more knowledgeable than me in this area say it's highly probable we'll have one next year or early 2021. The 'when' don't matter much in this context, alot of people are expecting one and it's coming which makes it an ideal time to IPO
- chrismarlow9 8y agohttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/3/25/18279705/yield-curve-inversion-recession-explained https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/3...
- chrismarlow9 8y agoYield inversion chart has been a reliable indicator for nearly all recessions
- zhte415 8y agoThere has been a recession in the US +/- 2 years of the end of every decade for the past 160+ years. That sounds a bit hand-wavey / crystal ball / technical analysis, but has reasons in fundamentals: Several years of collective prosperity decrease risk aversion, low inflation / money targets (thus interest rates) make (over) investment cheap (offices, tall buildings, capital stock, etc), collective memory fades. Certainly not written in stone, however. A book recommendation covering the above, and influence of such fundamentals in long term financial trends: Irrational Exuberance by Robert J Shiller.
- austenallred 8y ago> right before next year's recession How big is your short position?
- gdsdfe 8y agoI don't trade, just an observer
- return1 8y agowinter is coming
- cycrutchfield 8y agoRats fleeing the ship before it sinks
- feniv 8y agoI've been curious about the increased IPO rate as well. The data is all in EDGAR but it's not easy to find the trends - https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=&CIK=&type=s-1&owner=include&count=40&action=getcurrent https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=&CIK=&type=... I think it'll be a fun project to scrape the data and create some visualizations with it. Look out for a Show HN from me if you're interested!
- ETHisso2017 8y agoWould be curious to see this as well. Bookmarking your profile in case I miss it
- feniv 8y agoFYI - I've put up the extracted data and a quick visualisation here - https://thequarterly.org/S-1.html https://thequarterly.org/S-1.html Surprisingly, it doesn't look like the overall number of IPOs is any higher this year than in the past.
- erulabs 8y agoTo counter what the others are saying - yes we're at the end of a 10 year market high, but unless VC firms are _entirely liquidating_ their position immediately after the S-1, which they are not, this doesn't to me indicate that a recession is coming. In fact, if anything, the opposite. When others are afraid, be brave, etc...
- thoughtstheseus 8y agoIt is a trend. As companies IPO, more companies view IPOs as superior exit and capital raising options.
- Pfhreak 8y agoI've gone vegetarian, except for a single grass fed animal I bought from a local farmer. (I live in a city, it was easier than I thought it would be to connect with a farmer out in the rural part of my state.) The transition was way, way easier than I thought it was going to be. I didn't guilt myself when I made mistakes, just stopped eating meat unless I was sure the provenance of it was sustainable and free from cruelty. There's so much amazing vegetarian cuisine, and things like the Beyond Burger and Impossible Burger both fill that 'gotta have a burger' feeling. I hope we see more like them, and I'm really looking forward to being able to try 'clean meat' from some of the labs who are exploring that.
- bluntfang 8y ago>free from cruelty. Do you mind if I ask what your requirements for this are? At the end of the day, isn't ending life cruel, no matter the means?
- ZeroFries 8y agoIf the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing, that's as free from cruelty as you can get. If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that problem, since the animal would never be born without farming.
- bluntfang 8y ago> If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing How do you measure this? How do you know for certain that what you're eating had no idea it was about to die when it did? How do you know animals don't experience existential suffering, similar to how humans experience it? Why do you believe that humans are in control of their livestock's emotional state, even when they provide the best environment for them?
- Pfhreak 8y agoYou can't know. You can know what acute suffering looks like and try to avoid it. You can observe animal behavior and say, "They appear not to be suffering from existential dread beyond what they would in the wild", you may be able to measure cortisol levels in the meat. But you'll never know for sure.
- HuShifang 8y agoThe amended S-1 from March 27, 2019 can be found at: https://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/filing.ashx?filingid=13324109 https://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/filing.ashx?filingid=133...
- r00fus 8y agoSo I've had an Impossible burger (from my company cafeteria), but it was probably over-cooked. Does anyone know where I could taste-test a Beyond burger vs. Impossible burger? Definitely interested in this space as it's one of the surefire ways we reduce both energy and water, and I have family who are veggie and this makes it easier for me to connect with them.
- chaostheory 8y agoYeah, I think I overcooked my Impossible burger as well. It did smell and taste like meat. However it didn't smell or taste like a burger. It smelled and tasted just like Spam. I love Spam, but it's not a hamburger. I'm hoping that this is just due to cooking improperly.
- alangpierce 8y agoSounds like maybe you're referring to Beyond Burger, not Impossible Burger? Impossible Burger isn't available in grocery stores yet, and Beyond has sort of a spammy taste to it that Impossible doesn't have (from my perception).
- chaostheory 8y agoImpossible Burger has been available in stores in the SF Bay Area for what seems like a few weeks now, if not longer. I remember it because it's expensive compared to real meat. I got it at Safeway. It wasn't the Beyond Burger.
- alangpierce 8y agoThat's fantastic if so. Their FAQ still says it's "coming later this year, find it at a restaurant". I follow them pretty closely and haven't seen any press about it. https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019099893-Is-it-available-in-grocery-stores- https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/articles/3600190998... I guess I'll look at some Safeways to see if I can find it, maybe it's in some stealth release or something.
- martythemaniak 8y agoNot a vegetarian here, but I'm really excited about companies and products in this space. There's a lot of very poor quality meat out there that can easily be substituted by these products for cost, nutrition and environmental reasons. The way I describe the Impossible Burger to friends that haven't tried it is "If I invited you to a BBQ with decent store-brand frozen patties and randomly inserted Impossible patties, you probably wouldn't notice". I have a general prediction about these products though: I think they'll follow the broad development of art and games. Initially they will work very very hard to produce something that is as close to meat as possible, just like gaming worked very hard at photo-realism for many many years. But once they reach close enough, people will actually get bored and new and more interesting meat-like products, which traditional meat could never produce, much the same way gaming gave up photo-realism and many hit games started taking on more artistic qualities.
- Zigurd 8y ago"Ethical cannibalism." Some med student is going to eat a surplus lab-grown kidney, and there you'll have it.
- eurg 8y agoThis fits the [Weirdtopia](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cWjK3SbRcLkb3gN69/building-weirdtopia https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cWjK3SbRcLkb3gN69/building-w...) model too much to not have merit.
- EliRivers 8y agoI expect that at some point, it will be possible to grow meat from any given set of human DNA. At this point, I see two things: 1) Lines of celebrity meat. One might be able to look forwards to, for example, an Angelina Jolie steak. 2) Middle class (well, by then the middle classes won't exist - let's just say "rich people") dinner parties in which the hostess serves her guests herself. On a plate. Is it cannibalism if it was never part of a whole human, but was instead grown in a vat?
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- troydavis 8y agoThe version linked to is from 2018. Here's the current version (April 22, 2019): https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1655210/000162828019004543/beyondmeats-1a5.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1655210/000162828019... Things that stood out: They buy this pea protein: https://www.roquette.com/product-overview/proteins-and-derivatives/ https://www.roquette.com/product-overview/proteins-and-deriv.... Have committed to $22MM of protein (from 2 vendors) Founder owns 6% Co-manufactured by https://www.clwfoods.com/ https://www.clwfoods.com/ and http://www.fplfood.net/ http://www.fplfood.net/ (seemingly typo'ed in the S-1 as FLP) The burger was 70% of 2018 revenue and 48% of 2017 revenue Q4 gross margin: 25%, up from ~0% a year prior R&D: 63 food engineers
- sctb 8y agoThanks! We've updated the link from https://sec.report/Document/1655210/000162828018014471/beyondmeats-1.htm https://sec.report/Document/1655210/000162828018014471/beyon....
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- somethoughts 8y agoI've always thought two things: - Subway should have leaned into their use of soy in their deli meat [1] and came in from the high end with it being the more expensive, high end, healthier, better for the environment product - There should be high end burger chain which give you an eighth of a pound real meat burger patty for taste reasons and an eighth of a pound vegetarian patty for health and environment reasons. If everyone switched to such a solution, we could could our greenhouse gas emissions from burger production in half. In all honesty, this comment is based on superficial skimming of the following article/Beyond Meat press release [2]. In fact, the Asian means of eating tofu is fundamentally different from the vegitarian way of eating tofu. The Asian means of preparation is typically 75% tofu and 25% is meat for taste. When you go 100% tofu, its no wonder most people won't touch it. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/01/517920680/dna-tests-find-subway-chicken-only-50-percent-meat-canadian-media-reports https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/01/517920680... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/how-bill-gates-backed-vegan-beyond-meat-is-winning-over-meat-eaters.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/how-bill-gates-backed-vegan-... "Producing Beyond Burgers uses 99 percent less water, 93 percent less land, creates 90 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions and requires 46 percent less energy than producing beef burgers, according to a September report commissioned by Beyond Meat."
- rayiner 8y ago> If everyone switched to such a solution, we could could our greenhouse gas emissions from burger production in half. We'd be eating less tasty burgers for no real reason. Even eliminating meat farming entirely would only reduce the average American's GHG emissions by about 3%: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/climate/cows-global-warming.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/climate/cows-global-warmi....
- kasey_junk 8y agoThat’s a fairly strange reading of the US data. It’s only true because of the USA’s massive use of emissions in other parts of their lives. In non-relative terms it’s still a huge reduction & if we can get in front of developing nations eating of ruminants it would pay large dividends.
- b_tterc_p 8y agoExciting. I would invest in this if I didn’t think the market was on the brink of collapse.
- strict9 8y agoCannot wait. A+ product that stores struggle to keep stocked. It's been a long time time since I've admired a company as much as this one.
- cknoxrun 8y agoA&W in Canada has a Beyond meat burger and a Beyond meat breakfast sausage sandwich. I go there semi-regularly (being the best fast food restaurant in Canada in my opinion) and I am astonished - almost every second person in line is ordering the Beyond meat option. Edit: Important to note that A&W Canada is completely independent from A&W in the U.S.
- bdamm 8y agoAlso note that the burgers produced by A&W in the U.S. are complete trash almost every time, not comparable to A&W Canada which produces consistently delicious burgers.
- byproxy 8y agoAll well and good and as someone who doesn't eat meat it's nice to have more options when getting fast food, but at home I prefer the frozen vegetarian burger patties that have been available from Morningstar or Boca as they tend to be much more affordable and have more protein/calorie.
- joez 8y agoTheir roadshow video is up: https://www.retailroadshow.com/ https://www.retailroadshow.com/ I always find the video presentation more insightful. Edit: Directly linking to the video didn't work.
- PerfectElement 8y agoI've been vegan for 15 years, and I've tried all sorts of veggie burgers and mock meats available. Some of them are good, but pretty easy to tell they are not meat. When I first had the Beyond Burger last year (just plain with 2 thin slices of bread) it brought back a very strong memory of how meat used to taste. I wonder if most meat eaters would be able to tell it's not meat on a blind test. I'm curious to try the Impossible Burger, but I haven't seen it in my area yet.
- daeken 8y agoAs a meat eater, I've had mixed results with Beyond Burger and the Impossible Burger. With real meat, it's pretty hard to mess up a burger; if it's anywhere from medium rare to medium well, it's still going to be a pretty tasty burger. The current burger substitutes require a much more narrow window before they just don't taste very good. That said, I'm extremely bullish on these; they're already great and they're only going to get better from here.
- jordanpg 8y agoGood points about ease of cooking and error. So much of short-term adoption of these is tied to marketing and time, but their long-term success strikes me as a foregone conclusion. In marketing, they will need to get past a latent psychological hurdle and in time, waiting for the crotchety older folks who insist, no matter what, on a "real burger." Both things are related to the living generations who have grown up with "real burgers."
- daeken 8y agoI genuinely can't imagine an outcome where these don't become commonplace. Not going to predict that they're going to replace beef or anything, but it won't be weird to get a meat substitute burger from Wendy's or the like.
- jandrese 8y agoYou can already get them from places like White Castle, so I'd say you're right. What I'd really like to see is for the price to drop to a bit below that of the beef patty to help entice people to switch.
- gyaniv 8y agoI think the whole sector of meat-substitutions would be very successful, can't speak about this specific IPO, because of the state of the entire market right now. But if many big companies, highly invested in meat are investing in substitutes as well, they are not doing it from moral/humane/environmental reasons, they are just doing it for the money, so for those that are dedicated to this, it seems promising (if they can just survive the punches that "big meat" will send their way)
- whitepoplar 8y agoHas any research been done on the longterm health effects of replacing meat with synthetic meat?
- paulcole 8y agoHow could there be? Products like Beyond Meat are barely a decade old.
- whitepoplar 8y agoSo if we don't know its longterm health effects, why are people so eager to replace meat with it in their diet?
- delecti 8y agoDesire to avoid consumption of environmentally disastrous and morally questionable meat. And it's not like the standard american diet has been doing a lot of favors for most people's health.
- jimam 8y agoI think a lot of people just don't care about long term health risks. How many people today still smoke or do extremely little exercise?
- maximente 8y agoyou seem to be implying that long term health effects are the only or a very prominent reason for making a decision like this - why is that? taste, environmental well being, anti-cruelty are all potential inputs into the question "should i try a meatless alternative", and i'm sure there are others
- wy35 8y agoPeople are eager to reduce meat consumption in general due to meat's heavy environmental impact, questionable ethics in factory farming, and general unsustainability due to a growing population. Because it's made of commonly available plant-based ingredients like pea protein and canola oil, Beyond meat is highly unlikely to have long-term health effects. Society is advanced enough to properly identify every essential nutrient that comes from meat and recreate it in a plant-based form, so why not replace meat?
- gamegoblin 8y agoI am an omnivore, but deeply interested in meat substitutes. Before trying the burger by Impossible Foods, it was my opinion that the patty by Beyond Meat was definitely the best. I am a big burger consumer, and I tend to rank the various substitute burgers on a scale that indicates how satisfied I feel afterwards, and how accurate the imitation is. I felt like the Beyond Burger was 8/10 in terms of being as satisfying as a burger, but only 6/10 in terms of being a good imitation. For an example on why I use the different scales, plant-based patties tend to sear differently than real beef, tending to produce a thin crisp layer. This isn't great in terms of being a good imitation, but it actually has really good mouthfeel, so it increases the enjoyment. Being 8/10 in terms of satisfaction is a pretty important threshold for me. It is at the level where I can eat one and feel like I ate a burger. Most veggie patties are in the 4-7 range (Gardein is pretty good) in terms of satisfaction, and even lower imitation quality. When I first had the Impossible Burger a couple years ago, it was 9/10 satisfying and 8/10 imitation. It still had the distinctive plant-based patty crispiness, but the internal texture was much more accurate. This was back when the Impossible was only in a few dozen restaurants in the country, so this was at a nice place in Las Vegas. I got an Impossible and a Wagyu beef burger side by side for comparison. By the time I finished, the most obvious physical difference I'd noticed was that the Impossible burger loses heat much faster than a real beef burger. In January 2019, Impossible began rolling out their 2.0 recipe, and they are now in hundreds of locations. I got the 2.0 at an upper tier burger place ($20 for a burger) and again did a side-by-side test. The Impossible still lost heat faster than a real beef burger, but the characteristic thin crispy sear on the patty was reduced significantly. Visually, the inside of the patty was virtually indistinguishable from real beef. It's 10/10 satisfying and 9/10 imitation. I think it's indistinguishable from a Burger King quality burger, but still not quite as hot and juicy as a more expensive gourmet beef burger. I imagine they might be able to just make a less healthy version that is packed full of various oils and whatnot to get that quality. Once the Impossible Burger rolls out to grocery stores later this year, I will never have to buy ground beef again. To Beyond Meat's credit, their Beyond Brats are the best veggie sausage I have had, and as far as I know, Impossible doesn't have immediate plans to take on that market. I've found that they have supply chain/production issues with Beyond Brats, though, as they are almost always sold out at the Whole Foods near me. TL;DR I believe Impossible Foods is going to eat Beyond Meat's lunch
- balls187 8y agopea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, water, yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavors, gum arabic, sunflower oil, salt, succinic acid, acetic acid, non-GMO modified food starch, cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, beet juice extract (for color), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), annatto extract (for color), citrus fruit extract (to maintain quality), vegetable glycerin. vs Beef
- vangala2 8y agoThere's a lot of things that the cow eats during its life that don't make it onto that label but do definitely make it into your body. none of the ingredients in the list above scare me. If you still think that beef is better than a plant based alternative for you or the environment you are disillusioned. I'm not vegetarian either
- balls187 8y agoYou're buying into the myth that if it's made of plants, it must be better than meat. The nutrition of Beyond Burger is pretty much on par with the nutrition of beef. I'm not convinced that consuming "plant based alternatives" is a step in the right direction in dealing with health and environment issues especially when compared to more traditional approach like eating balanced meals using a plate model. Eating more veggies, on the other hand, yes much better.
- sridca 8y ago> Eating more veggies, on the other hand, yes much better. In what way exactly would "eating more veggies" be much better when meat is already the only nutritionally complete[1] food? [1] http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/meats/#i16 http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/meats/#i16
- balls187 8y ago> In what way exactly would "eating more veggies" be much better when meat is already the only nutritionally complete[1] food Easy, meat has no fiber. Western (read: American) diet consists of over consumption of meat, refined sugar, and processed grains, and woeful lack of vegetables, and lesser extent fruits. If the value of Beyond Meat is "better for you, better for environment", the health benefits seem dubious at best, and environmentally, I don't know if anyone has compared the impact on a per-oz of beef vs per-oz of beyond meat--though the meat industry at scale has had serious negative impact on our environment (putting it mildly) Most of us on the western diet, would do better to increase our consumption of veggies.
- UI_at_80x24 8y ago>Have committed to $22MM of protein I've never understood this convention and it always causes my brain to short-circuit when trying to read it. Is that $22 Million Monies, or $22 MegaMillions I'm assuming that the shorthand is supposed to be read as: $22 Million So then I spend the next 5 minutes stuck in a feedback loop of what the hell am I supposed to be thinking.
- ravenstine 8y ago[deleted]
- awad 8y agoThis is common in industry, don't think about it too much.
- vincentmarle 8y agoM is the Roman numeral for 1000, so MM is a thousand thousands, in other words a million.
- alimhaq 8y agoThis is probably an unpopular opinion here but I don't think these meat substitutes are sustainable for long term health in humans...our bodies are clearly designed to consume meat (especially apparent when you compare our bodies to those of our mostly herbivore relatives) and by extension we need these nutrients to thrive (not just survive, mind you). I understand the incentive for people to go vegan but people should tread very carefully since it's completely contraire to their evolutionary makeup and that doesn't come without consequences.
- Forge36 8y agoI don't know if any evidence to suggest a vegan diet is worse than a meat diet. Provided all nutrient needs are met.
- randomsearch 8y agoYep. Like a meat diet, a vegan diet will indeed be perfectly healthy provided it is reasonably balanced. You need to watch a few things, such as B12 intake. OTOH, there is plenty of evidence as to the negative effects of meat on health - the higher fat intake, for instance, and the increased cancer risk.
- sridca 8y ago> there is plenty of evidence as to the negative effects of meat on health - the higher fat intake, for instance, and the increased cancer risk. Please stop mindlessly spreading this nonsense. Meat is perfectly healthy. http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/meats/ http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/meats/
- randomsearch 8y ago"Processed meat was classified as Group 1, carcinogenic to humans" "Red meat was classified as Group 2A, probably carcinogenic to humans" World Health Organisation: https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/ https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/
- randomacct3847 8y agoAnecdotally seems like impossible burger has been more commercially successful
- codezero 8y agoThere's definitely a bit of an arms race going on, and it's unfortunate. I find both products to be very different, and we could stand to have some diversity in the area of alternative meat products. Off the top of my head, in terms of commercial availability I've seen them at: Beyond: - Safeway (both meat patties, and frozen boxed crumbles) - Del Taco - Carls Jr. - Veggie Grill Impossible: - Umami Burger - White Castle - Smaller retail locations - pilot w/ Burger King Beyond also has a lot of products, from sausages, crumbles, and different flavors of meat. I think Impossible is highly focused on reproducing ground beef.
- redisman 8y ago> There's definitely a bit of an arms race going on, and it's unfortunate. I don't follow, how is competition bad in this case? Sounds like the opposite to me.
- Slippery_John 8y agoI think they're afraid that one brand will be so much more successful that the other goes away. Each brand has different flavor, texture, and nutritional profiles so if any of those are particularly important to you then it's hard to make do with one of the other options. For example, both Beyond Meat and Quorn sell meatless "beef" crumbles. Each has a noticeably different flavor and fairly different nutrition (The Quorn has significantly fewer calories, but less protein for example). I would be sad if either one went out of business because I use them differently.
- freewilly1040 8y agoIf they have different flavors that different people prefer then it's probably a safe bet that there will multiple companies that last in the market.
- tgb29 8y agoSo great to see all these recent IPOs coming from tech investments and innovation. California is making the Stock Market for everyone much stronger.
- vidoc 8y agoThe name of this company is hilarious!
- sammycdubs 8y agoI've seen this said before (I forget from who), but I honestly think that over the next few decades meat is going to go through a similar transition to tobacco. I don't think it's ever going to disappear completely, but I think it's going to become something most people only enjoy once in a while if at all. I also think that meat consumption is going to be viewed in a significantly more negative light over time.
- freewilly1040 8y agoWhy? Do you think global warming considerations are going to be that mainstream? Tobacco has a lot of things going against it - it's bad for you in any amount and it gives off an unpleasant odor that stains fabric and walls. Not much of this applies to meat.
- ricardobeat 8y agoTry leaving some beef around the living room or smearing it across the wall. Smells even worse than cigarettes! I think the parent comment had a point about morals, not the practical aspects. It is already starting to happen: what will my friends think of my leather jacket, can’t propose a barbecue for a company event, etc etc.
- ip26 8y agoRed meat is a carcinogen & spoils quickly. There's the whole animal cruelty thing too. If the imitations can get good enough and also beat on price to boot, that could seal the deal as well.
- leadingthenet 8y ago> Red meat is a carcinogen & spoils quickly This is overblown and not nearly as well supported by science as you think. Just like how people said for decades that saturated fat is bad for you. It's provably not.
- 0x54D5 8y agoSorry but no chance. For one it's not actually bad for you. A good meat stew for example is a culinary staple in almost every culture in the entire world and is considered both healthy and hardy. You can't say the same thing about tobacco. I'll be happy to take another look when they can grow A5 Wagyu beef in a lab and not just trying to make plant matter act like meat. To be perfectly blunt this entire thread is vegans patting themselves on the back. It's an echo chamber. Killing an animal on a farm quickly and painlessly is a lot kinder than what that animal would experience in nature left to their own devices. Sadder still is that I suspect that a lot of these farm animals are likely to go extinct when the technology to grow meat in a lab becomes viable and cheaper. Considering how close we are to being able to produce human organs that can actually be transplanted into a live human it's not far fetched to think we'll be able to grow high quality, beautifully marbled muscle tissue of various species in the not too distant future.
- jedberg 8y agoI'm not a vegetarian but I do care about the environment. So I always try to find meats that are sustainably farmed etc, but sometimes it's hard and sometimes I just only have time for a quick fast food meal. But if they have an impossible burger, I'll get that every time, even if it costs more. My hope is that over time their costs come down so much that the impossible burger is actually cheaper, at which point I think we'll see a sea change in meat farming. If getting the meat free burger at McDonalds costs less than the meat one but tastes the same, that right there would be huge for the environment.
- HuShifang 8y agoFor the philosophically rigorous, Christine Korsgaard has a good newer book[1] on animal ethics and their implications that has significant bearing on some of the comments here. (And she's a rather better thinker than Peter Singer.) [1]: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/fellow-creatures-9780198753858?cc=us&lang=en& https://global.oup.com/academic/product/fellow-creatures-978...
- narrator 8y agoHere comes billions of ideological vegetarianism and virtue signaling dollars. Might as well be a charity. Great business model. Lose money forever to chase a shared ideological purpose for the benefit of investor's ideological salvation. It's like funding of the building of a church for the PETA crowd.
- dzhiurgis 8y agoI've tried Impossible Burger once in a some random bar. Was dissatisfied - texture was ok, but had weird after taste. Also tried to cook some Beyond Meat burgers the other week. The stench was horrible, even my roommates noticed. Topped with mayo, garlic butter, bbq sauce and onions it did kinda hide the horrible flavour, but still I couldn't finish it. I could feel that horrible flavour for a day or two after. Really had big hopes for it and will definitely try again, but for now it's a joke.
- m3kw9 8y agoFor a vegan that is craving meat, this could be acceptable lol
- dzhiurgis 8y agoWas thinking the same. Unless you are craving for meat and have forgotten how real meat tastes - perhaps it's ok. But then there are hundreds of marketing articles saying that some vegans are disgusted how "real" of a meat this taste like. Pure lies.
- lamby 8y agoDon't forget they are really selling a wider cknversation/story/narrative/worldview than just the meat. To focus too much on the product itself might therefore be a mistake. (Besides, that part can always be tuned... )
- dzhiurgis 8y agoThat's why I stick with regular vegetarian meals. Indian thali is amazing. Tofu, tempeh, quinoa - passable. Fake meat - non starter (same with mylks).
- lamby 8y agoI don't disagree that those are nicer items, I've had them countless times myself.. but I think you may be missing the "point" of Beyond Meat if you solely talk about the taste or macronutrients.
- meekstro 8y agoBeyond meat works for financial reasons. Sunlight, pea plant, factory, paddy costs less at scale than sunlight, corn plant, cow, slaughter house, factory, paddy. It does not work particularly well for dietary reasons. The calorie reduction will reduce inflammation if it is not offset by additional excess calories but the omega 3 fatty acid profile will not compete financially with fatty acid profile of algae or grass-fed protein. The beyond meat diet will therefore lead to more inflammation in the general population and increased rates of chronic illness including diabetes and brain disorders. A moderate amount of protein and fat from Grassfed animals and oily cold water fish combined with moderate low inflammatory carbohydrate starches and loads of vegetables is the optimum human diet. Every other diet has a negative externality of increased chronic illness. Health outcomes as measured by life expectancy are not better for the average middle income human who survived to the age of 5 in 2019 than they were for the equivalent dataset living 150 years ago in England. And then you have the vegans. What is more precious? a virus, a amoeba, a bacteria, a prokaryote, a eukaryote, a fungus, a plant, a insect, a arachnid, a cephalopod, an invertebrate, a reptile, a bird, a mammal, a political ally, a community, a friend, a sibling, a parent, a child or a vegan's theory? Rhetorical question. Human Parents minimise the suffering of their children and expect the favour to be returned in kind. The choice between animal suffering and decreased probability of the onset of your child's future chronic illness is easy if enlightened. Beyond meat therefore doesn't work for economic reasons and is a fad of unknown duration. The negative externalities of a vegetarian diet are currently obscured by the corn lobby and any other political factions currently profiting from the sale of inflammatory foods. They love the vegans chipping in. I often wonder if roadkill slowly dying keeps vegans up at night or If they are sleeping through it? And if if they are, how? As for grassfed animals. Pastured land is marginal for growing starches or vegetables. Solutions are in development for the reduction in nitrate leaching and methane emission. The positive externalities of a low inflammation moderate carbohydrate, moderate protein grass/algae fed diet and the reduction in chronic illness outweigh the negative externalities of the methane. Put nuclear engines in cargo vessels to trade the meat around, methane problem neutralised, global health enhanced. Food should be judged on it's toxicity to the general population and nothing else. It is the only objective measure and miraculously the economics results in humane farming practice and better human health. Pretty hard to judge the toxicity of beyond meat and that's why I choose to eat whole ingredients that I process myself. I think they will make some money dependent on flavour, texture, marketing and distribution capability. Although kraft spent 1 billion relabeling their cheese about 10 years back so good luck competing against that. Eventually the human dietary truth will come out and misplaced idealism won't save the business from public knowledge. That could take 20 years but I think the inflammation and dietary literature is going to converge before then. Bill Gates isn't a vegan.
- drewda 8y agoInstead of competing over burgers, could Beyond Meat or Impossible Burger work on brisket?
- leekyle333 8y agoFor people that like to eat healthy, how do you feel about eating something as processed as the "beyond burger?" I get that it's nice to have another option but to me it's hard for me to stomach the ingredients especially with canola being the third ingredient.
- nvr219 8y agoI mean I feel about it like any other processed food.... consume rarely
- jakevn 8y agoProcessed is not a bad word when it comes to health. What matters are the ingredients. I'm not aware of any consensus on canola being anything but healthy, but am interested in learning more as canola oil is what I use for cooking. That being said, like any meat or meat-substitute, I wouldn't consider it a "health food".
- cageface 8y agoThe problem with all oil is that it’s very calorie dense and nutrient poor. A tablespoon of olive oil has 120 calories! And since it’s so calorie dense it doesn’t make us feel full. This is why I now cook entirely without oil.
- leekyle333 8y agoI agree with you that the ingredients matter, but I also think as a blanket statement avoiding processed foods is smart. I think this is a pretty good synopsis of why canola and PUFA's (polyunsaturated fatty acids)are bad. I actually think it's possible that we should be vilifying them on the same level as sugar. https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/pufa-s-the-worst-thing-for-your-health-that-you-eat-everyday https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/pufa-s-the-worst-thing-for-y...
- cageface 8y agoI've been vegan for a while now and while I think it's a great thing that these products are available I don't think I'll be eating them much myself. I much prefer a lentil curry to a burger but it's nice to have some options when I'm out with friends.
- ggm 8y agoI've always felt quorn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn) got a raw deal. They made some stupid marketing positions, they allowed the agenda to get ramped up around allergy when its ratio of risk is significantly lower than other foods including soy, and they walked into a battery hen issue needlessly. But the fundamentals look pretty good. Its a bioreactor, it scales, it can use varying feedstock, and its good nutritive value. TVP which proceeded it, in my highly subjective opinion was crap in comparison. It reminded me of badly cooked stewing meat, when the connective tissue is left behind and the good bits are now in the stock: you don't want to swallow this.. cellophane meat "thing"..
- cageface 8y agoA lot of their products contain eggs, which sort of defeats the purpose of making plant based alternatives.
- ggm 8y agoThe quorn and tvp era was focussed on protein shortage and we understood how to make chicken things happen in bulk. It was efficient use of animal product to source binder in egg form deprecating the inefficient grazing behind pork, lamb and beef. Chicken farming is pretty intensive. (I'm skirting the moral aspect here) It wasn't initially about vegetarianism as a holistic view avoiding animal products, as much as fending off starvation from lack of food. If they had found a way to make beef farming productive enough I think they would would have gone there. The input was surplus product from a flour producer. I don't think they were radical vegetarians. They did subsequently get on the vegan bandwagon but had lost market momentum, and the whole 'fusarium is not a mushroom' and 'you are allergens' kind of killed it for a while.
- charliebrownau 8y agoWith the huge amount of LEFT WING activists cailimg to be "VEGANS" I am yet to see a single ONE setup :- Organic farm for chickens Organic farm for cattle Organic + hydroponic farm for fish They seem to now DEMAND and DOX and "" PROTEST" against small farms and small butchers yet never going against LARGE CORPORATIONS or using freedom to join the GREENS or parties to vote Instead they are using violent and anti freedom action to FORCE everyone else not to eat meat What ever happened to OUR CHOICE FREEDOM Ability to be left the FUCK ALONE for our choices on REGION, SEX , FOOD and political viewpoint
- ericdykstra 8y agoI see this as just another way to replace some of the natural food in your diet with a garbage mix of highly processed plants and oils. No thanks, I’ll stick to the food that has created and sustained human life for 1000s of years over a science experiment. If you want to subject yourself to this, go ahead, but it’s not for me.
- gnclmorais 8y agoMy biggest question about this “meat” is how it compares to the real deal, nutritionally speaking.
- shafyy 8y agoI recommend watching What The Health (https://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/ https://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/) - a great doc by the same guys who did Cowspiracy, this time focusing on the health and lobyy aspects of the meat and diary industry. Negative lobbying is something that fills me with anger unlike any other and not eating meat and diary JUST to stop giving those fuckers my money is reason enough. Of course, there are many other great reasons to do so (animal welfare, environment, health) - and no objectively good reason to eat meat and diary. And no, reasons such as: - "We need meat to be healthy" - "Humans meant to be eat meat historically" - "I love the taste and this is a free country" Are either scientifically wrong or not objectively good reasons.
- stjohnswarts 8y agoI remain a keto advocate but I can understand why vegetarians do what they do and kudos to them for choosing to do it. However, if I have to listen to one more skinny white girl angrily try to convince me that I'm evil because I'm not vegan/vegetarian I might crack and yell back.