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My former roommate is a pilot. When I first met him, I noticed that he uses checklists for just about everything, even the most basic everyday tasks. After som

by LeonM 8y ago

My former roommate is a pilot. When I first met him, I noticed that he uses checklists for just about everything, even the most basic everyday tasks. After some time, I decided to apply that same mentality to my own life. Both in private and work situations. I get it now. Checklists reduce cognitive load tremendously well, even for basic tasks. As an example: I have a checklist for when I need to travel, it contains stuff like what to pack, asking someone to feed my cat, check windows are closed, dishwasher empty, heating turned down, etc. Before the checklist, I would always be worried I forgot something, now I can relax. Also, checklists are a great way to improve processes. Basically a way to debug your life. For instance: I once forgot to empty the trash bin before a long trip, I added that to my checklist and haven't had a smelly surprise ever since ;)

hinkley 8y ago
I spend a lot of time getting checklists together at work, mostly for other people, and then ruthlessly removing extraneous items from the list (usually by fixing unreliable things that are of the sort: step 5: Do X. step 6: double check that step 5 actually happened) I get lots of credit for the former, but maybe one in five people see the latter as the bigger contribution. We end up having to deal with things when we are tired. You have to make them so an idiot can do them, because some day you will be that idiot. All day exhausting meeting followed by a major emergency. Kid up half the night with a fever. New video game just came out. Bad dreams, whatever.
ChuckMcM 8y ago
I would likely forget something if I didn't have a travel checklist. Something I keep in my Evernote notebook called, wait for it, checklists :-) They are especially handy when on multi-stop travel where I'm spending all my time worrying about the logistics of the travel and meetings. It has definitely saved me from losing a number of phone chargers and razors over the years.
andersonvaz 8y ago
Why care if dishwasher is empty?
grigjd3 8y ago
Maintaining checklists in documentation for software design reduces mistakes dramatically. Writing step-by-step exacting build instructions for one of our core products reduced the annoying requests for help I got dramatically.
shortandsweet 8y ago
What do you have on the travel check list? Everytime I travel I say to myself that I should make a list but always forget or put it off.
CloudNetworking 8y ago
If I remember anything from the "Getting Things Done" training is precisely this: Writing down tasks saves you a lot of brain cycles and also removes worries, as otherwise you have to be constantly "refreshing cache" on pending tasks to not forget about them.
calvinv 8y ago
You don't know what you can't remember
ekianjo 8y ago
This is described in the book called "the checklist manifesto". Very good book by the way. https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/dp/0312430000 https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/...
- dotancohen 8y ago
  > This is described in the book called "the checklist manifesto". You might notice that the book was written by Dr. Gawande, who implemented the checklist in the fine article!
- _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
  I second that, excellent book.
  - ysr23 8y ago
    I've also read it, for anyone thinking about buying it, i think it can be completely summarised by: 'checklists are very very good. You should really use checklists' Now if you require further info on why they are good, by all means read the book, i just found it was a blog-post, if not a tweet, expanded to a book, YMMV.
    - pamplemoose 8y ago
      That's exactly what it was. Atul Gawande wrote a column in the New Yorker [0] and was presumably offered a deal to expand it into a book. [0] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/12/10/the-checklist https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/12/10/the-checklist
    - MR4D 8y ago
      I kindof agree, but he also had other interesting nuggets such as having all the medical staff introduce themselves and why they are there in the surgery room before any cutting begins. It's interesting to think how often dumb errors can be caught just by making sure everyone in the room is there for the same surgery (i.e., repairing a joint, not cutting off a limb). Correcting that confusion before cutting makes me feel better.
amelius 8y ago
I also have a checklist for trips. But I haven't been able to come up with other use-cases in everyday life so far.
- larrywright 8y ago
  I have an extensive checklist for trips. I’ve also got a daily one, which is partially for helping me get the day started off right by checking off a bunch of easy tasks, and partially just to make sure I don’t miss something critical. Ever forget about a meeting you needed to prepare for until you got the meeting reminder? I have a daily checklist item to give my calendar a quick glance to make sure there’s nothing I need to prepare for. It only catches something maybe a few times a year, but that’s worth it for the 10 seconds it takes me every day. Pretty much anything I have to do more than once, that involves more than a few steps, I make a checklist for. I take pictures sometimes, semi-professionally. I have a checklist for what to do before I take pictures (pack the bag, charge the batteries, clear the memory cards), and after (brighten teeth in pictures, remove lint/spots from clothes, pick photos to put in my portfolio). At work I have checklists for design tasks, some of which are things to do, some of which are things to consider (does this need a review from security? does this need additional monitoring?). There are people that can keep all this stuff in their head. I’m not one of them and I know it. Having checklists reduces my anxiety levels by an order of magnitude.
- checkyoursudo 8y ago
  Given that any routine could be made into a checklist, it seems likely that you have lots of everyday checklists that you do a good (or good enough?) job of keeping track of in your head. Maybe for most things that you could use a checklist for, the effort just isn't worth it?
  - andruc 8y ago
    This is almost certainly the case. Consider the "simple" act of taking a shower and how internalized it is for most people.
- coldtea 8y ago
arethuza 8y ago
My own anti-anxiety strategy for thinking like making sure the cooker is off, windows are closed etc. is to take pictures with my phone of everything (of course I never look at the pics). I suspect there might be an opportunity for a "visual checklist" app that prompts you to take pictures of stuff.... NB I do use a paper checklist for remembering to take stuff when I go up mountains at the weekend - forgetting gloves when it is snowing is never a good idea.....
- alexpotato 8y ago
  Adding a physical act (in your case taking a picture) has been shown to DRASTICALLY increase the rates at which items are completed. The classic example of this are train drivers: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-japan-trains https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-j... Quote from the article: "Originally developed by the now-defunct Kobe Railroad Administration Bureau in the late Meiji Period (the early 20th century), pointing-and-calling is known to reduce workplace errors by up to 85 percent, according to one 1996 study."
  - SomeHacker44 8y ago
    NYC Train conductors now do this, pointing to the video display overhead the center of the station when they open the window.
    - LeonM 8y ago
      Not just NYC. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-japan-trains https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-j...
    - astura 8y ago
      Here's a video of people having a bit of fun with it. https://youtu.be/i9jIsxQNz0M https://youtu.be/i9jIsxQNz0M (New York City imported the practice from Japan)
  - FabHK 8y ago
mannykannot 8y ago
With regard to the difference between pilots and surgeons in this matter, it has been noted that the latter are not personally at risk from not using checklists. I am not suggesting that surgeons deliberately or cavalierly put patients at risk, but risk to oneself has a way of concentrating the mind.
- cellularmitosis 8y ago
  There's an anecdote in The Checklist Manifesto which backs this up. I'm recalling from memory, so the details may be off, but when they tried to roll out a checklist program into a hospital, many of the surgeons resisted, feeling that it was insulting. After having used the checklist process for a while, this sentiment remained, but when surveyed "If you were going under the knife, would you want a surgeon who uses the checklist process", nearly all of the surgeons answered "yes". (when their own life is on the line, suddenly a checklist doesn't seem to repugnant)
  - elygre 8y ago
    Back in the 19th century, when Ignaz Semmelweis suggested that washing hands was a good idea, he met a lot of resistance. From wikiepedia, "Some doctors, for instance, were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands, feeling that their social status as gentlemen was inconsistent with the idea that their hands could be unclean". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
setquk 8y ago
I do this. Everyone seems to think I'm insane however. This is the same people who's lives regularly descend into chaos doing the same stupid things over and over again.
- okr 8y ago
  It reminds me on my Mom. Whenever we were traveling, she wrote a checklist. Very organized. I do it now too, helps me to offload.
lordnacho 8y ago
I don't know how I'd live without checklists and Trello boards. Just running a family with a couple of kids, I don't get how people used to do this. Each kid has their own schedule, their own list of items they need that day, their own homework. When you shop, you need to know what to get for everyone. And there's the paperwork, you have to decide what to buy for major purchases and pay for them all, and you have to sign up to various things like voting registries and local tax. Add to that your work, where you have a bunch of tasks to do as well, various projects, bugs, meetings, and so on. I lived through the pre-mobile, pre-everyone-had-a-computer era, and I don't get how people did anything. Paper diaries? Rolodexes?
- hycaria 8y ago
  >Paper diaries? Rolodexes? Carbon based one, ie brain.
- allannienhuis 8y ago
  paper calendars on the fridge was a big part of our home organization pre-computers. :)
- beamatronic 8y ago
  People simply did less
- tialaramex 8y ago
  Read Samuel Pepys diaries from the 17th century. They're available online in various forms. It's fascinating both what has changed and what hasn't changed at all. Pepys wrote these diaries primarily for his own use and so he sends to be largely honest (at least as much as we are honest with ourselves). He describes cheating on his wife, lying to people and so on. Anyway, Pepys complains frequently that his day's work was lost because he was not able to meet with someone in the expected place at the anticipated time. That's just how things were then, you could neither phone to ask "where are you?" nor to say "change of plan I will now be at the old bridge until 4pm".
- misterprime 8y ago
  Simpler life. Less productive. Perhaps more time to wonder, explore, and waste. Perhaps less fulfilling and more difficult to achieve goals.
SomeHacker44 8y ago
As a pilot, we use checklists in a solo flight differently than in a crew flight. I fly solo flights by “flows,” and then use/review the checklist at the completion of a flow to confirm I did not miss any step. In general the flows are a right-to-left arrangement of things you do in a certain phase of flight. That way you scan over the things in order and do/verify everything in a single “flowing” motion.
callumprentice 8y ago
Can't tell you how happy it makes me to discover I'm not the only one who does this. My wife says it drives her nuts but I'm pretty certain she's also delighted by how we never forget anything before or during a trip. We did something similar for example: left a tray of leftover food in the oven (turned off) just before a trip and came back to a pulsating surprise. I added "Check the oven is off and empty" to the list of things to do "Just before we leave" and it's never happened since. That said, there are several hundred things on my generic version and it sometimes feels a bit daunting having to start afresh each time we travel but I think so far, it's been worth it. I keep threatening to do a trip without it and see just how many things we forget, don't do and screw up. MAybe one day... :)
- callumprentice 8y ago
  I perhaps should have elaborated a bit about the number of items. It is broken up into sections like: * Do well before we leave: e.g. arrange insurance, book seats on flights. * Do just before we leave: e.g. engage window locks, turn off heating, empty dishwasher Then sections for hand carry, electronics bag, wash bag, suitcase and various subdivisions within each. I found the best way to manage it is to make one giant list so it might have a kite and a bucket and spade in the "misc items" for example. When we're planning a trip, I copy that list to a new place, edit the title accordingly and remove all the items I'm sure we won't need. Like the aforementioned kite and bucket if it's not a beach trip. Or the car pack with chargers, suction cup for phone navigation etc. if we're not renting a car. I agree that it'd probably be mostly okay if I went rogue and I can always buy stuff in the airport or at our destination. Notable exceptions being medications, passports, credit cards. I still garner some measure of comfort from knowing we have everything even if getting there can be a little stressful.
- jsharf 8y ago
  > I keep threatening to do a trip without it and see just how many things we forget, don't do and screw up. MAybe one day... :) I don't have a checklist, and usually I'm fine. So, it's certainly possible :) Also, I think if you have a list of over 100 items, maybe it's time to simplify it or break it up into sublists. That length itself probably produces more anxiety than saved by the list. It sounds like an over optimization For background, I create todolists and checklists all the time in my life. Just so far, I haven't felt the need to make one for taking vacations.
tjoff 8y ago
I see the appeal and do it to some extent. However I haven't finalized on a system for it. I've realized that there is quite a bit of overlap between some of my lists and have been thinking that I'd like it to be a modular system. A checklist consists of a any number of items and sublists so that one can quickly combine them. For instance, travel might optionally include the sublist abroad and/or skiing or summer. A work-related trip might add another set of items etc. I bet there are apps for this and I think I found a few when looking, but I'm afraid of the managing overhead and would like access to it on my phone and computers without cloud bloat. Maybe git + vim-wiki or something is good enough (would also work well enough on an android phone with termux).
- sansnomme 8y ago
  Modularity; Software Engineering problems :)
throwaway848483 8y ago
I get the point of checklist for critical process. But I think it's counterproductive to drone your life away following task lists full of feature creep. First with a little training you can put mental reminders in your mind, trusting yourself that they will show up when needed. It also helps with keeping your brain and memory in good working condition, and force you to stay in mental clarity and not being so overworked and tired that you have to rely on external list. Second it's not robust to rely 100% on a task list being completed, sometimes forgetting something means that it's not that important. It's more important to rely on situational awareness to know what's need to be done and in what priority. The logic behind is pick something from the hot mess and make the whole better. Third we can automate and delegate more easily now, quite often if you need to use a checklist, a script would be even better.
- pp19dd 8y ago
  Think the "Checklist Manifesto" addresses your creep and clutter as basically a very bad design. In the book they went over several medical checklist iterations before they struck something sensible that improved conditions and saved lives. Most importantly, they changed culture in places to where a nurse was allowed to tell a doctor "no" without fear of reprisals, and re-framed checklist items to pay attention to a time window for administering antibiotics, not just whether a patient received them. The checklist that's helpful should fit on a laminated index card and it should list critical things. But, it's hard to distill the essence of something and most checklists end up as a loose thought vomit on pages.
iscrewyou 8y ago
I have checklists for almost everything. Recently I’ve started worrying that I’m depending too much on them because I should be able to think up things I need to do without these checklists. As in I’m not engaging my brain as much. But your comment just made me realize that now I have the cognitive load to do things other than remembering tasks. I recently passed two licensing exams without being stressed out that a lot of my friends failed. And I think I may attribute my checklists habit to that. (Shameless plug from a happy user: I rely heavily on the Things app for Mac and iOS)
- e40 8y ago
  I credit checklists for being much more creative in my work and personal life. An in-memory checklist is a huge distraction. Once you flush it to offline storage, you have more memory for other things, like thinking about how to solve the harder problems in life. I wish I knew this when I was 30.
e40 8y ago
Yep. What surprised me: certain things end up with surprisingly long checklists. My "monthly" checklist at home has 30+ items on it, and it's not padded. When I hit 50 I started making lists like a mofo, because I realized it would relieve my cognitive load. And it did, big time.
umvi 8y ago
Is there a good app for storing/sharing various checklists (travelling checklist, selling house checklist, etc.)?
- krtkush 8y ago
  TickTick is my favorite.
- istjohn 8y ago
  I recommend Dynalist or Workflowy
- kumarm 8y ago
  Google Keep.
- iscrewyou 8y ago
  I use the Things app. It allows you to have Projects Area with project inside (collapsible). The checklists inside can have sub-checklists. The sub-checklists can be marked “done” with a check mark or marked “not needed” with a cross. projects have headings so you can organize different tasks in that project. Things only stores checklists. Doesn’t share them.
ip26 8y ago
Good checklist design is not trivial, however. I use checklists professionally, and the list rapidly accumulates cruft for problems that have been solved by design. E.g., suppose one time someone forgot to sign your software release. "Verify release has been signed" is added to the checklist. However a bright soul also integrates signing into the release build. Thus the problem is essentially solved once and for all, but the item will remain on the checklist in perpetuity, which adds overhead & decreases confidence in the checklist process. I think they make sense for infrequently exercised routines of moderate complexity that are 100% execution. A complex but limited scope machine like a plane is really an ideal example. I guess preparing for a vacation could be another, although I get caught up because packing is totally different every time. I suppose I checklist myself when I rappel or go skiing ("Skins, skis, boots, ... working up the body")
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- hinkley 8y ago
  Curating a list isn't about building it as much as it is about maintaining it.
- sjg007 8y ago
  I would argue that you want an automated check for "verify release has been signed" then if it fails you are alerted. This is better than manually checking it every time or assuming it will always be signed. A trust but verify approach. Then one day you may find that a trusted cert has expired and signing is broken or a key is not available b/c it got accidentally deleted etc... Lots of things can go and will go wrong.
- KineticLensman 8y ago
  > I think they make sense for infrequently exercised routines of moderate complexity that are 100% execution Yes. There have been several formal studies of this effect, e.g. [0]. Checklists offset skill fade, which is in effect the 'forgetting curve'. Some skills (the classic riding a bike) last for ages, others (a good example being field fault diagnosis) are lost very quickly even with good initial training. Incidentally, I once made a good camping packing checklist by making an inventory of the contents of my car as I unpacked it at the end of a holiday and the things I'd forgotten were still fresh in my mind. [0] https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/about/skills-fade-literature-review-full-report.pdf https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/about/skills-fade-literature-...
fitzroy 8y ago
I've used a packing list for travel for a while now. My current method is to set everything up with checkboxes, uncheck them all beforehand and then recheck them as I pack or as I decide I don't need them for this trip. I used to just group items by category (outerwear, electronics, etc), but now I've found it better to group items by where they're going to be packed (pockets, under-seat backpack vs carryon / checked bag). Below that, I have short supplemental lists for things like camping, international, trips with swimming/beach, formal (wedding, etc), or trips longer than a week. Also, a "Before You Go" list that's stuff to remember when literally walking out the door (take out the trash, shut down home theater computer, etc) that isn't realistic to pack or do in advance. Still a work in progress, but it really helps free up mental energy.
- callumprentice 8y ago
  Gosh - that is freakily like my approach on all counts. Are you sure you're not me :) I am struggling with how to best organize the items within a section. You have given me some ideas. Thank you.
- jschulenklopper 8y ago
  I do almost the same, but the “Before You Go” list is a great addition. I’ve got a couple of different checklists in Trello for different kind of trips: week of snowboarding, long weekend with my wife, business trip to conference, camping with family.
dontbenebby 8y ago
In human computer interaction they often talk about the "gulf of execution" - when the desired end state is known but it's unclear how to get there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_execution I've found that using checklists helps tremendously when working on medium to large projects (things that take more than a weekend to complete). For example, if I want to learn a new technology, maybe I'll get a book on python, add the list of chapters in my projects tracking document, and strike them off one by one. That sense of steady progress helps tremendously.
happyweasel 8y ago
Checkslists force me to really have some kind of plan for achieving a certain goal - how I want to achieve something. Because I have to be able to write down the single steps. Also checklists make it very easy to just get started.. just begin with the first task And last but not least - I use checklists especially for things that I do NOT want to do at all (but I will have to do anyway). I am already annoyed (for whatever reason) by that task - so I want to minimize the amount of time I have to spend dealing with it. Therefore I use a checklist with the minimal amount of necessary steps to solve that problem or task, so I can get rid of it as fast as possible.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

by LeonM 8y ago

hinkley 8y ago

I spend a lot of time getting checklists together at work, mostly for other people, and then ruthlessly removing extraneous items from the list (usually by fixing unreliable things that are of the sort: step 5: Do X. step 6: double check that step 5 actually happened) I get lots of credit for the former, but maybe one in five people see the latter as the bigger contribution. We end up having to deal with things when we are tired. You have to make them so an idiot can do them, because some day you will be that idiot. All day exhausting meeting followed by a major emergency. Kid up half the night with a fever. New video game just came out. Bad dreams, whatever.

ChuckMcM 8y ago

I would likely forget something if I didn't have a travel checklist. Something I keep in my Evernote notebook called, wait for it, checklists :-) They are especially handy when on multi-stop travel where I'm spending all my time worrying about the logistics of the travel and meetings. It has definitely saved me from losing a number of phone chargers and razors over the years.

andersonvaz 8y ago

Why care if dishwasher is empty?

grigjd3 8y ago

Maintaining checklists in documentation for software design reduces mistakes dramatically. Writing step-by-step exacting build instructions for one of our core products reduced the annoying requests for help I got dramatically.

shortandsweet 8y ago

What do you have on the travel check list? Everytime I travel I say to myself that I should make a list but always forget or put it off.

CloudNetworking 8y ago

If I remember anything from the "Getting Things Done" training is precisely this: Writing down tasks saves you a lot of brain cycles and also removes worries, as otherwise you have to be constantly "refreshing cache" on pending tasks to not forget about them.

calvinv 8y ago

You don't know what you can't remember

ekianjo 8y ago

This is described in the book called "the checklist manifesto". Very good book by the way. https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/dp/0312430000 https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Manifesto-How-Things-Right/...

dotancohen 8y ago
> This is described in the book called "the checklist manifesto". You might notice that the book was written by Dr. Gawande, who implemented the checklist in the fine article!
_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
I second that, excellent book.
- ysr23 8y ago
  I've also read it, for anyone thinking about buying it, i think it can be completely summarised by: 'checklists are very very good. You should really use checklists' Now if you require further info on why they are good, by all means read the book, i just found it was a blog-post, if not a tweet, expanded to a book, YMMV.
  - pamplemoose 8y ago
    That's exactly what it was. Atul Gawande wrote a column in the New Yorker [0] and was presumably offered a deal to expand it into a book. [0] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/12/10/the-checklist https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/12/10/the-checklist
  - MR4D 8y ago
    I kindof agree, but he also had other interesting nuggets such as having all the medical staff introduce themselves and why they are there in the surgery room before any cutting begins. It's interesting to think how often dumb errors can be caught just by making sure everyone in the room is there for the same surgery (i.e., repairing a joint, not cutting off a limb). Correcting that confusion before cutting makes me feel better.

amelius 8y ago

I also have a checklist for trips. But I haven't been able to come up with other use-cases in everyday life so far.

larrywright 8y ago
I have an extensive checklist for trips. I’ve also got a daily one, which is partially for helping me get the day started off right by checking off a bunch of easy tasks, and partially just to make sure I don’t miss something critical. Ever forget about a meeting you needed to prepare for until you got the meeting reminder? I have a daily checklist item to give my calendar a quick glance to make sure there’s nothing I need to prepare for. It only catches something maybe a few times a year, but that’s worth it for the 10 seconds it takes me every day. Pretty much anything I have to do more than once, that involves more than a few steps, I make a checklist for. I take pictures sometimes, semi-professionally. I have a checklist for what to do before I take pictures (pack the bag, charge the batteries, clear the memory cards), and after (brighten teeth in pictures, remove lint/spots from clothes, pick photos to put in my portfolio). At work I have checklists for design tasks, some of which are things to do, some of which are things to consider (does this need a review from security? does this need additional monitoring?). There are people that can keep all this stuff in their head. I’m not one of them and I know it. Having checklists reduces my anxiety levels by an order of magnitude.
checkyoursudo 8y ago
Given that any routine could be made into a checklist, it seems likely that you have lots of everyday checklists that you do a good (or good enough?) job of keeping track of in your head. Maybe for most things that you could use a checklist for, the effort just isn't worth it?
- andruc 8y ago
  This is almost certainly the case. Consider the "simple" act of taking a shower and how internalized it is for most people.
coldtea 8y ago

arethuza 8y ago

My own anti-anxiety strategy for thinking like making sure the cooker is off, windows are closed etc. is to take pictures with my phone of everything (of course I never look at the pics). I suspect there might be an opportunity for a "visual checklist" app that prompts you to take pictures of stuff.... NB I do use a paper checklist for remembering to take stuff when I go up mountains at the weekend - forgetting gloves when it is snowing is never a good idea.....

alexpotato 8y ago
Adding a physical act (in your case taking a picture) has been shown to DRASTICALLY increase the rates at which items are completed. The classic example of this are train drivers: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-japan-trains https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-j... Quote from the article: "Originally developed by the now-defunct Kobe Railroad Administration Bureau in the late Meiji Period (the early 20th century), pointing-and-calling is known to reduce workplace errors by up to 85 percent, according to one 1996 study."
- SomeHacker44 8y ago
  NYC Train conductors now do this, pointing to the video display overhead the center of the station when they open the window.
  - LeonM 8y ago
    Not just NYC. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-japan-trains https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-j...
  - astura 8y ago
    Here's a video of people having a bit of fun with it. https://youtu.be/i9jIsxQNz0M https://youtu.be/i9jIsxQNz0M (New York City imported the practice from Japan)
- FabHK 8y ago

mannykannot 8y ago

With regard to the difference between pilots and surgeons in this matter, it has been noted that the latter are not personally at risk from not using checklists. I am not suggesting that surgeons deliberately or cavalierly put patients at risk, but risk to oneself has a way of concentrating the mind.

cellularmitosis 8y ago
There's an anecdote in The Checklist Manifesto which backs this up. I'm recalling from memory, so the details may be off, but when they tried to roll out a checklist program into a hospital, many of the surgeons resisted, feeling that it was insulting. After having used the checklist process for a while, this sentiment remained, but when surveyed "If you were going under the knife, would you want a surgeon who uses the checklist process", nearly all of the surgeons answered "yes". (when their own life is on the line, suddenly a checklist doesn't seem to repugnant)
- elygre 8y ago
  Back in the 19th century, when Ignaz Semmelweis suggested that washing hands was a good idea, he met a lot of resistance. From wikiepedia, "Some doctors, for instance, were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands, feeling that their social status as gentlemen was inconsistent with the idea that their hands could be unclean". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

setquk 8y ago

I do this. Everyone seems to think I'm insane however. This is the same people who's lives regularly descend into chaos doing the same stupid things over and over again.

okr 8y ago
It reminds me on my Mom. Whenever we were traveling, she wrote a checklist. Very organized. I do it now too, helps me to offload.

lordnacho 8y ago

I don't know how I'd live without checklists and Trello boards. Just running a family with a couple of kids, I don't get how people used to do this. Each kid has their own schedule, their own list of items they need that day, their own homework. When you shop, you need to know what to get for everyone. And there's the paperwork, you have to decide what to buy for major purchases and pay for them all, and you have to sign up to various things like voting registries and local tax. Add to that your work, where you have a bunch of tasks to do as well, various projects, bugs, meetings, and so on. I lived through the pre-mobile, pre-everyone-had-a-computer era, and I don't get how people did anything. Paper diaries? Rolodexes?

hycaria 8y ago
>Paper diaries? Rolodexes? Carbon based one, ie brain.
allannienhuis 8y ago
paper calendars on the fridge was a big part of our home organization pre-computers. :)
beamatronic 8y ago
People simply did less
tialaramex 8y ago
Read Samuel Pepys diaries from the 17th century. They're available online in various forms. It's fascinating both what has changed and what hasn't changed at all. Pepys wrote these diaries primarily for his own use and so he sends to be largely honest (at least as much as we are honest with ourselves). He describes cheating on his wife, lying to people and so on. Anyway, Pepys complains frequently that his day's work was lost because he was not able to meet with someone in the expected place at the anticipated time. That's just how things were then, you could neither phone to ask "where are you?" nor to say "change of plan I will now be at the old bridge until 4pm".
misterprime 8y ago
Simpler life. Less productive. Perhaps more time to wonder, explore, and waste. Perhaps less fulfilling and more difficult to achieve goals.

SomeHacker44 8y ago

As a pilot, we use checklists in a solo flight differently than in a crew flight. I fly solo flights by “flows,” and then use/review the checklist at the completion of a flow to confirm I did not miss any step. In general the flows are a right-to-left arrangement of things you do in a certain phase of flight. That way you scan over the things in order and do/verify everything in a single “flowing” motion.

callumprentice 8y ago

Can't tell you how happy it makes me to discover I'm not the only one who does this. My wife says it drives her nuts but I'm pretty certain she's also delighted by how we never forget anything before or during a trip. We did something similar for example: left a tray of leftover food in the oven (turned off) just before a trip and came back to a pulsating surprise. I added "Check the oven is off and empty" to the list of things to do "Just before we leave" and it's never happened since. That said, there are several hundred things on my generic version and it sometimes feels a bit daunting having to start afresh each time we travel but I think so far, it's been worth it. I keep threatening to do a trip without it and see just how many things we forget, don't do and screw up. MAybe one day... :)

callumprentice 8y ago
I perhaps should have elaborated a bit about the number of items. It is broken up into sections like: * Do well before we leave: e.g. arrange insurance, book seats on flights. * Do just before we leave: e.g. engage window locks, turn off heating, empty dishwasher Then sections for hand carry, electronics bag, wash bag, suitcase and various subdivisions within each. I found the best way to manage it is to make one giant list so it might have a kite and a bucket and spade in the "misc items" for example. When we're planning a trip, I copy that list to a new place, edit the title accordingly and remove all the items I'm sure we won't need. Like the aforementioned kite and bucket if it's not a beach trip. Or the car pack with chargers, suction cup for phone navigation etc. if we're not renting a car. I agree that it'd probably be mostly okay if I went rogue and I can always buy stuff in the airport or at our destination. Notable exceptions being medications, passports, credit cards. I still garner some measure of comfort from knowing we have everything even if getting there can be a little stressful.
jsharf 8y ago
> I keep threatening to do a trip without it and see just how many things we forget, don't do and screw up. MAybe one day... :) I don't have a checklist, and usually I'm fine. So, it's certainly possible :) Also, I think if you have a list of over 100 items, maybe it's time to simplify it or break it up into sublists. That length itself probably produces more anxiety than saved by the list. It sounds like an over optimization For background, I create todolists and checklists all the time in my life. Just so far, I haven't felt the need to make one for taking vacations.

tjoff 8y ago

I see the appeal and do it to some extent. However I haven't finalized on a system for it. I've realized that there is quite a bit of overlap between some of my lists and have been thinking that I'd like it to be a modular system. A checklist consists of a any number of items and sublists so that one can quickly combine them. For instance, travel might optionally include the sublist abroad and/or skiing or summer. A work-related trip might add another set of items etc. I bet there are apps for this and I think I found a few when looking, but I'm afraid of the managing overhead and would like access to it on my phone and computers without cloud bloat. Maybe git + vim-wiki or something is good enough (would also work well enough on an android phone with termux).

sansnomme 8y ago
Modularity; Software Engineering problems :)

throwaway848483 8y ago

I get the point of checklist for critical process. But I think it's counterproductive to drone your life away following task lists full of feature creep. First with a little training you can put mental reminders in your mind, trusting yourself that they will show up when needed. It also helps with keeping your brain and memory in good working condition, and force you to stay in mental clarity and not being so overworked and tired that you have to rely on external list. Second it's not robust to rely 100% on a task list being completed, sometimes forgetting something means that it's not that important. It's more important to rely on situational awareness to know what's need to be done and in what priority. The logic behind is pick something from the hot mess and make the whole better. Third we can automate and delegate more easily now, quite often if you need to use a checklist, a script would be even better.

pp19dd 8y ago
Think the "Checklist Manifesto" addresses your creep and clutter as basically a very bad design. In the book they went over several medical checklist iterations before they struck something sensible that improved conditions and saved lives. Most importantly, they changed culture in places to where a nurse was allowed to tell a doctor "no" without fear of reprisals, and re-framed checklist items to pay attention to a time window for administering antibiotics, not just whether a patient received them. The checklist that's helpful should fit on a laminated index card and it should list critical things. But, it's hard to distill the essence of something and most checklists end up as a loose thought vomit on pages.

iscrewyou 8y ago

I have checklists for almost everything. Recently I’ve started worrying that I’m depending too much on them because I should be able to think up things I need to do without these checklists. As in I’m not engaging my brain as much. But your comment just made me realize that now I have the cognitive load to do things other than remembering tasks. I recently passed two licensing exams without being stressed out that a lot of my friends failed. And I think I may attribute my checklists habit to that. (Shameless plug from a happy user: I rely heavily on the Things app for Mac and iOS)

e40 8y ago
I credit checklists for being much more creative in my work and personal life. An in-memory checklist is a huge distraction. Once you flush it to offline storage, you have more memory for other things, like thinking about how to solve the harder problems in life. I wish I knew this when I was 30.

e40 8y ago

Yep. What surprised me: certain things end up with surprisingly long checklists. My "monthly" checklist at home has 30+ items on it, and it's not padded. When I hit 50 I started making lists like a mofo, because I realized it would relieve my cognitive load. And it did, big time.

umvi 8y ago

Is there a good app for storing/sharing various checklists (travelling checklist, selling house checklist, etc.)?

krtkush 8y ago
TickTick is my favorite.
istjohn 8y ago
I recommend Dynalist or Workflowy
kumarm 8y ago
Google Keep.
iscrewyou 8y ago
I use the Things app. It allows you to have Projects Area with project inside (collapsible). The checklists inside can have sub-checklists. The sub-checklists can be marked “done” with a check mark or marked “not needed” with a cross. projects have headings so you can organize different tasks in that project. Things only stores checklists. Doesn’t share them.

ip26 8y ago

Good checklist design is not trivial, however. I use checklists professionally, and the list rapidly accumulates cruft for problems that have been solved by design. E.g., suppose one time someone forgot to sign your software release. "Verify release has been signed" is added to the checklist. However a bright soul also integrates signing into the release build. Thus the problem is essentially solved once and for all, but the item will remain on the checklist in perpetuity, which adds overhead & decreases confidence in the checklist process. I think they make sense for infrequently exercised routines of moderate complexity that are 100% execution. A complex but limited scope machine like a plane is really an ideal example. I guess preparing for a vacation could be another, although I get caught up because packing is totally different every time. I suppose I checklist myself when I rappel or go skiing ("Skins, skis, boots, ... working up the body")

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hinkley 8y ago
Curating a list isn't about building it as much as it is about maintaining it.
sjg007 8y ago
I would argue that you want an automated check for "verify release has been signed" then if it fails you are alerted. This is better than manually checking it every time or assuming it will always be signed. A trust but verify approach. Then one day you may find that a trusted cert has expired and signing is broken or a key is not available b/c it got accidentally deleted etc... Lots of things can go and will go wrong.
KineticLensman 8y ago
> I think they make sense for infrequently exercised routines of moderate complexity that are 100% execution Yes. There have been several formal studies of this effect, e.g. [0]. Checklists offset skill fade, which is in effect the 'forgetting curve'. Some skills (the classic riding a bike) last for ages, others (a good example being field fault diagnosis) are lost very quickly even with good initial training. Incidentally, I once made a good camping packing checklist by making an inventory of the contents of my car as I unpacked it at the end of a holiday and the things I'd forgotten were still fresh in my mind. [0] https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/about/skills-fade-literature-review-full-report.pdf https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/about/skills-fade-literature-...

fitzroy 8y ago

I've used a packing list for travel for a while now. My current method is to set everything up with checkboxes, uncheck them all beforehand and then recheck them as I pack or as I decide I don't need them for this trip. I used to just group items by category (outerwear, electronics, etc), but now I've found it better to group items by where they're going to be packed (pockets, under-seat backpack vs carryon / checked bag). Below that, I have short supplemental lists for things like camping, international, trips with swimming/beach, formal (wedding, etc), or trips longer than a week. Also, a "Before You Go" list that's stuff to remember when literally walking out the door (take out the trash, shut down home theater computer, etc) that isn't realistic to pack or do in advance. Still a work in progress, but it really helps free up mental energy.

callumprentice 8y ago
Gosh - that is freakily like my approach on all counts. Are you sure you're not me :) I am struggling with how to best organize the items within a section. You have given me some ideas. Thank you.
jschulenklopper 8y ago
I do almost the same, but the “Before You Go” list is a great addition. I’ve got a couple of different checklists in Trello for different kind of trips: week of snowboarding, long weekend with my wife, business trip to conference, camping with family.

dontbenebby 8y ago

In human computer interaction they often talk about the "gulf of execution" - when the desired end state is known but it's unclear how to get there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_execution I've found that using checklists helps tremendously when working on medium to large projects (things that take more than a weekend to complete). For example, if I want to learn a new technology, maybe I'll get a book on python, add the list of chapters in my projects tracking document, and strike them off one by one. That sense of steady progress helps tremendously.

happyweasel 8y ago

Checkslists force me to really have some kind of plan for achieving a certain goal - how I want to achieve something. Because I have to be able to write down the single steps. Also checklists make it very easy to just get started.. just begin with the first task And last but not least - I use checklists especially for things that I do NOT want to do at all (but I will have to do anyway). I am already annoyed (for whatever reason) by that task - so I want to minimize the amount of time I have to spend dealing with it. Therefore I use a checklist with the minimal amount of necessary steps to solve that problem or task, so I can get rid of it as fast as possible.

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