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Could Get Millions to Turn Factory into Condos, Is Not Selling
- speeder 8y agoReading the article about what is inside... Why not turn the whole thing into a museum? So people in the future, in the age of 3D printers, will know how things were made before them...
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoBecause running a museum requires a constant input of money and there are already many measuems that house manufacturing equipment. She's probably contacted museums already and they've probably either told her that none of the equipment she has is of historical significance or that they'd love it but they don't really have a budget for acquiring stuff. There is somewhat of a surplus of old machine shop (basically what this business was) equipment. People retire, sell most of their stuff to other shops or individuals and keep a few of their most versatile machines for themselves (and their kids then sell or scrap them). Stuff doesn't usually get scrapped until it's a) totally clapped out or b) inherited by someone wealthy enough that they're not gonna bother selling old machines for a grand or two and would rather just call a scrapper to clean everything out. Also, the larger size machines that most production shops like this aren't worth much because the market is basically limited to other shops and a few industrious individuals and other shops already have equipment (and if they don't they're rarely buying old stuff).
- Varcht 8y agoDo industrial themed apartments, have a mini museum up front with a couple of the cooler machines and measuring tools. If she needs to keep machining to satisfy her fathers wishes save a couple 1000 sq/ft and buy a few modern CNC machines that can do the job of the existing antiques.
- bluetidepro 8y agoI wonder if she will ever end up regretting it? I feel like I've heard so many stories about people trying to hold on to stuff like this, but then either the government or other rich entities use the law and sketchy tactics to end up getting the building in the long run, by those other means. And then the person basically gets what they were trying to save stolen, and just regretting that they tried to hold on for a battle they would never win. They end up just losing out on making money from it instead of going down fighting and getting nothing. This may also be my cynical way of looking at it, though.
- ReptileMan 8y agoProbably her best bet is to sell her air rights. The plot then becomes unattractive for devlopment.
- ip26 8y agoThe other outcome that seems too-common is they hang onto it, and then once they pass their heirs sell it off cheap for a quick buck. In this case she's already a heir- but there will be heirs after her.
- PakG1 8y agoSounds like it's not about the money for her though. But sadly, without money, the place will just deteriorate and fall apart. And who knows where that money would come from. The future is probably unfortunately already written.
- drugme 8y agoBut sadly, without money, the place will just deteriorate and fall apart. And who knows where that money would come from. I wouldn't be worried about that. Unless there's some major structural issue at play, even a rent stabilized building can easily pull in enough income to keep the place from "deteriorating".
- drugme 8y agoWhat "sketchy tactics" are you referring to? Aside from an eminent domain seizure -- and these are quite rare -- there really isn't anything they can do to just "get" your building.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoWow, and here I was thinking that this headline format was finally dead.
- yyyymmddhhmmss 8y agoThis is the real story. Full on clickbate, normalized. This is the end.
- YeahSureWhyNot 8y agoshe will sell or lease it in 2 years
- bhauer 8y agoLease, yeah. The article makes it pretty clear that she probably will lease it.
- moonshinefe 8y agoFor some people money isn't that important or the end all of everything. So we get articles like this with "shocking" behaviors of people who "could be rich but don't do X." It's an interesting commentary on our society.
- randomacct3847 8y agoWhen you have too many people living in the past, you get the mess San Francisco is in with NIMBYs blocking market rate housing projects, declaring rundown laundromats as “historical landmarks” and fights over shadows.
- anoncoward111 8y agoLol did they really declare a laundromat a landmark? I swear the tactics that certain people will do to get their way....
- beatpanda 8y agoNo, they didn't, after years of legal battles the plans to build on that site were finally approved. https://hoodline.com/2018/09/plans-for-8-story-mission-development-move-forward-after-laundromat-s-appeal-defeated https://hoodline.com/2018/09/plans-for-8-story-mission-devel...
- monkeynotes 8y agoBoth the laundromat and the new building they want to construct are pretty numb. When I look at the architecture of the early-to-mid 20th century I can't help but feel we've lost a lot. These days economic architecture reigns, and probably for good reason. It's no longer affordable to have ornate brick-work or any kind of embellishment. Interiors are functional and efficient, we've done away with unnecessary mouldings and again dispensed with ornate detail in general. I wonder how the economics of the property market used to bear the additional cost of all that extra work? Were people just more proud of what they made, or was labour just so incredibly cheap that making a building beautiful made little difference to the bottom line?
- plink 8y agoShe should just ship the machines over to China as that country seems better able to appreciate the art of manufacturing.
- plink 8y agoHa ha, downvotes! I'm no more enamored of my observation than are thou, but sometimes the truth stings.
- Magnets 8y agoLooks like she is planning on renting to a commercial tenant.
- agumonkey 8y agoShe should. It's probably not against her father's will to use (part of) it for good purposes. As said above, it would turn into costly ruins otherwise.
- lmm 8y agoSo hundreds of people who could live in those condos will instead have to commute from further out, or pay more for an alternative apartment, or not be able to pursue their New York dreams at all. Why is that something we romanticise?
- puzzle 8y agoFrom the article, given the area it's in, it doesn't sound like it would necessarily host low-income or middle-class families. Call me cynical, but I see those condos being someone's third or fourth home and being empty half the time.
- briandear 8y ago> it doesn't sound like it would necessarily host low-income or middle-class families So what? An increase in housing supply results in lower prices for everyone. If the "rich" are buying a condo in location A, that means they're likely not buying that condo in location B. That means the price has to be lowered since now A and B are competing. If A and B are competing for rich people, that means less "rich people" demand in location C. In a place like Sunnyvale, houses are exceeding $1.5 million for essentially starter homes. If there were a larger supply in, say, Palo Alto, that would mean less demand in Sunnyvale, which means more people could afford to live there even if they couldn't afford Palo Alto. There just aren't enough places for sale in the area, so even if someone wanted to buy at the higher-end, the supply is constricted which means they have a lot of money to spend elsewhere. Increasing high-end housing in Palo Alto necessarily decreases demand in lower cost neighborhoods in the area. In short, building more housing for "rich" people frees up more housing for everyone.
- lm28469 8y ago> So what? An increase in housing supply results in lower prices for everyone. If the "rich" are buying a condo in location A, that means they're likely not buying that condo in location B. That means the price has to be lowered since now A and B are competing. If A and B are competing for rich people, that means less "rich people" demand in location C. This kind of intuition rarely work in real life though. People migration flows and the housing market isn't a A+B=C type of problem.
- sdenton4 8y ago'Mr. Familia, now the super of 42-44 Bond, uses the shop for maintenance work. Mr. Liang simply likes to come by. “This is my second home,” he said after a cup of tea at his desk. As for what he does now at the shop, Mr. Liang explained, “I take a look at machines.”' This reminds me of the Anthony Bourdain visit to the Congo. They visit a defunct train station, which even after twenty years has a small band of people coming in every day, trying to keep the trains and machines in good repair, waiting for when there's sufficient government to restart the service. People love their machines...
- liotier 8y ago> People love their machines... They do - and HN readers who manage technical people should remember it. Break that bond and detachment will ensue. For example, if you are scaling up and getting rid of snowflake servers with cute names and personal history, consider giving the admins something else to bond with.
- SamReidHughes 8y agoIt reminds me of how more than one watch company was able to restart its mechanical watch manufacturing after employees secretly preserved old equipment in their home or in long-forgotten attics and storerooms.
- guildan 8y agoWould you have an article or the name of the company. It seems like it could be a good read!
- SamReidHughes 8y agoOne case is with Zenith and an employee Charles Vermot. https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/charles-vermot-the-man-who-saved-the-el-primero-and-possibly-zenith https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/charles-vermot-the-man-who...
- 8y ago
- mc32 8y agoI admire her perseverance and wanting to preserve blue collar work, but why not sell at a premium and then move to a more affordable area and improve her factory with the added capital, maybe expand (jobs and capacity) and modernize her tooling to produce even better tools?
- paulsutter 8y agoAnd she’ll get even more millions if she waits. She can also develop apartments, collect rent, and maintain ownership. And she can wait as long as she wants to do either. EDIT: of course she needs to pay property taxes but that’s her choice isn’t it
- arkades 8y agoNot precisely, no. Her taxes will still be assessed on the market value of the property - meaning she's got to have enough revenue from the business (or just general personal wealth) to pay taxes on what the government will assess as incredibly valuable land, for a factory. She can easily end up with a net loss. Or draining all her resources until she ends up having to sell anyway.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago> And she’ll get even more millions if she waits. Probably, but maybe not. 2008 happened; something like it could happen again.
- paulsutter 8y agoI bought 15 houses in 2009. Still own them. Have collected more in rents than I paid for the houses.
- cimmanom 8y agoLease it? Also, modern building techniques could probably make it feasible to erect a high-rise that straddles the original factory without displacing it (maybe carve out a small area for an entrance/small lobby depending on how much of the lot the existing building takes up). Though having to avoid damaging or obstructing an existing structure might make construction extra-challenging and add to the expense.
- Something1234 8y agoI thought people owned the first 500 feet of airspace above their property. Also that's a very expensive solution.
- crispyambulance 8y agoBut she is going to rent it out, eventually. > The shop closed two years ago. Since her father died, > the factory space is Ms. Galuppo’s to use as she wishes, > but she is not rushing to rent it out. Before seeking a > new commercial tenant, she wants to find the right way > to dispose of all the old equipment, file cabinets and > other workplace detritus. This person just wants to move on her own timeline. That's perfectly fine. The family must be pretty flush to be able to do that however. What would be bad is allowing the space to disintegrate like what happens in many other cities.
- onetimemanytime 8y agoPlus is not like Manhattan land is going to drop in value any time soon. That's like money in the bank...unless NY decides to make them a landmark site. For all we know they are seeking partners by saying we don't want to sell. This article was probably pitched
- zone411 8y agoThe land prices in Manhattan have cooled down somewhat in the last couple of years. They are now at the 2015 level (https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/new-york-city-land-prices/ https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/new-york-city-land-p...), so actually down a bit if counting inflation.
- Technetium_Hat 8y agoPlease do not use code blocks for quotes. They are very hard to read on mobile.
- jcampbell1 8y agoShe can get millions without selling. She could walk into any bank and get a $10M line of credit the same day from this property. This could be arranged in 24 hours or less.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- darawk 8y agoIf you don't like NIMBYism, you certainly shouldn't be supporting this.
- fixvzbdjzis 8y agoWhy not? I don’t support NIMBY because they stop me from selling my property to a high density developer. Or objecting to having a paper mill open down the street. How is that related to wanting to keep a property? I.e. “keep my backyard mine”!
- jackfrodo 8y agoIf she really isn't in it for the money and wants to honor the building and area's working class history, she'd develop it into affordable/low income housing.
- olivermarks 8y agoWhen Anchor Steam Beer sold to Sapporo during the beer slump they were good enough to look after their landmark Potrero Hill brewery building to make sure it wasn't converted into yet more San Francisco yuppie hutches. https://www.brewbound.com/news/keith-greggor-explains-sold-anchor-brewing-company https://www.brewbound.com/news/keith-greggor-explains-sold-a.... 'San Francisco’s commercial real estate has been on fire for years, and we have been in Potrero Hill since the late 1970s. The property is worth a lot of money. Their goal is to preserve Potrero Hill and enhance it. They think it is a jewel within the brewing industry. It was not an option for us to have someone buy the brewery, stick it in the desert and then turn the building into condos. That would have destroyed Anchor’s legacy.' The Japanese seem to take US heritage more seriously than the locals...
- stronglikedan 8y ago> In contrast to these cool glass and granite residences, 42-44 Bond is a tawny brick loft building. Its arched windows represent a classic feature of the late 19th century Renaissance Revival style. Some would say it could use an update. I think it looks great, but could use a clean-up instead of an update. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.726082,-73.9929773,3a,60y,19.29h,114.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKnRw28QoxxlFx1KSjBrtlw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.726082,-73.9929773,3a,60y,19...
- hn_throwaway_99 8y agoAgreed! I wish it were still possible to build buildings that looked like this.
- Animats 8y agoPerhaps TheShop.build, the successor to TechShop, might be interested. They want a NYC location. They can use those good Bridgeport mills.
- Xunxi 8y agoHow I wish they had a NYC location. I've been ruminating over a product a could really use this to make some parts. NYC resistor unfortunately is not equipped enough.
- dekhn 8y agoI had to laugh when I saw the Bridgeport mill in Manhattan. One of the craziest things I've ever seen is Autodesk's facility on a pier in SF (https://www.autodesk.com/pier-9 https://www.autodesk.com/pier-9). They have a room with floor-to-ceiling wall-to-wall glass looking onto the bay bridge with an absolutely clean Bridgeport mill. That says "$$$" like nothing else.
- monkeynotes 8y agoFill me in, why is a Bridgeport mill in Manhattan amusing? Honest question - all I know is it's a piece of nice looking machinery.
- dekhn 8y agobecause nearly all heavy industry has moved out of manhattan. maybe amusing is not the right word- there is no english word for the feeling of nostalgia you get when looking at an incongruous historical artifact of high quality.
- EamonnMR 8y agoOld factories are a charming feature of many New England towns as well. I used to work out of a converted factory office in my hometown. Every few years the owners of the property say that they're going to redevelop it into housing, but they haven't yet. If you're interested in checking out the inside of one, the Noble and Cooley drum factory[1] in Granville Massachusetts offers tours. 1: http://www.ncchp.org/ http://www.ncchp.org/
- CoreSet 8y agoSometimes I just have to laugh / cringe reading HN. The detailed analysis of how this woman who wants to hold on to a piece of sentimental property is actually mistaken, is destroying the neighborhood, is willfully naive for not exploiting her position to make as much money as possible, etc, etc is predictable but tiring. Fears about about "cash being the sole nexus between human beings" seem pretty realized on HN. It's as if no one - or at the very least the VC crowd - accepts that anyone could be doing anything _other_ than living their life in pursuit of profit. And if they are, they're ignorant, naive - even selfish - for not aligning their intent with a profit motive.
- 3pt14159 8y agoI never really cared about making more than $5m until I realized that the profit motive[0] is going to destroy everything because it dumps everything into arms races and as human power goes up, due to increased scientific advancement and the accelerating search space for technological combinations that provide greater economies of attack asymmetry, negative externalities begin to dominate the world. Especially in areas where attribution is impossible, since deterrence isn't possible, or in areas where outcomes are unpredictable, for the same reason. I just wanted to have fun and create a little garden for myself. Now I have to become some ugly combination of Soros, Orwell, and Nader[1] because the people with money right now are all people that cared about money, or—ethically better, but consequentially worse—they're techno-optimists. [0] The feedback function, really. Startups are just organizations in search of a feedback function. [1] Yes. I'm aware of the irony.
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- rajacombinator 8y agoWas the title of this changed to remove pronouns? Bizarre choice.
- namlem 8y agoThis is why we need a land value tax. If she wants to hold onto that property, she should have to pay out the nose.
- nakedrobot2 8y agoReally misleading headline. It will gentrify like everyone else, the factory has already been closed for two years! Jeeeez!