14 ms·

If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

405 points by tuxguy 8y ago

cloakandswagger 8y ago
If you ever feel angry, irritable, sad, apathetic, restless, tired or any way other than perfectly fine, positive and happy, then you're suffering from depression. Go to your nearest psychiatrist to be assured that you're a victim, that your brain is broken and there's nothing that you can do, and that the only path to feeling "normal" is becoming dependent on a high-priced drug cocktail that will alter your brain chemistry. This message was most certainly not brought to you by the pharmaceutical industry.
- sgift 8y ago
  Because in your world the only way to help people with depression are anti-depressants? Unlike the real world where people have various options (e.g. psychotherapy)?
  - QuercusMax 8y ago
    Pretty sure the grandparent post was satirical. Hence the "this post NOT brought to you by the pharmaceutical industry".
  - cloakandswagger 8y ago
    In my world people aren't encouraged to start any sort of professional treatment as a first course of action, as it totally externalizes one's locus of control and robs them of the ability to help themselves through learned skills of introspection and metacognition.
- epx 8y ago
  Naturally it is when you are angry for no reason and it goes for months :)
- war1025 8y ago
  For the downvoters, I'm fairly certain this was an attempt at sarcasm.
  - rimunroe 8y ago
    The sarcasm wasn't helpful and wasn't in good taste. In addition to what my sibling commenters have said, going to a doctor because you suspect you might be depressed or have any other concerns about your mental health doesn't automatically lead to being told you need to go on medication. Personally, I've known a few people who didn't talk to their doctors about their depression for a long time precisely because they didn't want to go on medication (or because they couldn't for family/cultural reasons). Because of that, they missed out on things like talk therapy which probably could have helped them.
- kec 8y ago
  Depression isn't "feeling any way other than perfectly fine", it's feeling so continuously for an extended period of time such that your mental state begins to prevent you from living a normal life. Depression is a real issue for some people, and by trivializing it and blaming big pharma all you're doing is reinforcing the stigma around mental illness which makes it harder for people who really need it to seek help.
  - cloakandswagger 8y ago
    17% of the US population self-reported taking some form of psychiatric drug [1]. We're way past the point of truly disturbed people not seeking help due to the stigma of mental illness. Instead, it's cheerfully celebrated and encouraged in a way that I imagine will only stop once 100% of the country is zombified by mind-altering drugs. The pendulum needs to swing back towards self-help and the idea that some discomfort is a part of normal life. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1-in-6-americans-takes-a-psychiatric-drug/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1-in-6-americans-...
    - kec 8y ago
      Seeking help may end up including drugs as part of treatment, it may not. Pushing the narrative that depression isn't real and that depressed people should just get over it is ignorant and actively harms folks who do need help by reinforcing the stigma surrounding mental illness.
    - mplewis 8y ago
      There's still a massive stigma against people with mental illness today. By no means are we "way past the point of truly disturbed people not seeking help due to the stigma of mental illness."
    - scottlocklin 8y ago
      Kind of amazing how the modern world survived and even managed to send men to the moon without 17% of the population taking addictive brain melting pharmies that literally nobody understands. What boggles my mind is nobody reflects on this and thinks popping pills is some kind of normal thing. But hey, having such thoughts is probably a sign of depression. "There's always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now. You can carry at least half your morality about in a bottle. Christianity without tears-that's what soma is." World Controller Mustapha Mond
- sctb 8y ago
  Please comment substantively instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
alangpierce 8y ago
This certainly agrees with my experience. I've had a number of cases in the past where I'm feeling low/depressed at work and tend to get more frustrated, e.g. annoyed with some policy or some design decision or some detail about the code that I'm working with. It's a bit counterintuitive that sadness and lowness would do that, but it seems to be a pretty clear pattern. After a number of cases of expressing that frustration and regretting it later, I've set a rule for myself that I should mostly keep my mouth shut if I'm feeling depressed. If I do want to follow up, I should just write down my thoughts and talk through the issue later when I'm feeling better. Fortunately I'm pretty good these days about being aware of when I'm feeling depressed.
ksec 8y ago
Assuming a product person ( e.g Steve Jobs ) is easily Angry and Irritable with crap ( Which there are lots of it ), would that considered as depressed? Where do we draw a line where some body just have very high standard to everything ( Perfectionist ) or they actually have bipolar disorder.
- cmiller1 8y ago
  The line between personality traits and mental disorder is usually drawn at "does this have a significant negative impact on the person's functioning?"
  - justtopost 8y ago
    If our functioning is negative due to our environment, rather than the impetus to our actions, what then?
    - mLuby 8y ago
      It's unfortunate, but the environment is unlikely to change, so if you dislike your symptoms you've gotta change what you can. That said, if you can change your environment (new job, new home, new friends, etc) that's going to be a heck of a lot easier than changing yourself.
- ashleyn 8y ago
  I've known many people who have Jobsian tendencies. They don't have depression, just a low tolerance for bullshit.
  - ergothus 8y ago
    > just a low tolerance for bullshit. How about "just a low tolerance for what they perceive as bullshit"? It seems many such people perceive things like manners, respect for other people, and anything that doesn't push their personal current priority as "bullshit".
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Or tired? Both lead to unwarranted angry outbursts IME.
- paublyrne 8y ago
  True ... Also depression often causes sleep problems resulting in tiredness.
- imaffett 8y ago
  I'll second this. I put myself in a downward spiral from bad sleep and being dependent on caffeine. I'm now aware of how I "feel" when I'm just really tired.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  Indeed. I wanted to comment that sleep apnea can also cause irritability.
- dspillett 8y ago
  Tired can be a consequence of depressed, or many other things, so this could be an indirect (even cyclical) reaction. I'm a tad bipolar. When I have an angry manic the cause is direct, but when I have a "happy manic" that lasts for an appreciable time angry is soon to follow too, I think mainly because I can't sleep well in that state. When I'm down I sleep, in fact sometimes practically hibernate, but it often isn't useful/refreshing sleep so again anger comes from that.
thecatspaw 8y ago
Whilw the gdpr text version is an applaudable step by npr, I wish they didnt link to their frontpage. Can someone link it?
- isp 8y ago
  https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637 The URL is https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID> https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID>, where <SID> is in the original URL here: www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/<YEAR>/<MONTH>/<DAY>/<SID>/<SLUG>
ohiovr 8y ago
A long time ago before I was treated for bipolar disorder I found my depression was related to anger turned inward at myself. But others I have talked to didn’t always relate this way as I did with depression.
- webmobdev 8y ago
  If you mean inward anger = self-loathing / self-hatred, you are right as that's a common symptom of depression too.
  - ohiovr 8y ago
    Exactly what I had :)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
- totesraunch 8y ago
  Severe depression isn't the only type of depression. Like most mental illness there are degrees to which people are affected. So yes, while people with short tempers might not be depressed, depressed people might have short tempers; which is exactly what the article is espousing.
mongol 8y ago
Could also be too much coffee.
epx 8y ago
That's how I discovered my own depression.
ganzuul 8y ago
I have had to deal with inexplicable anger and irritability for a long time. It is possible this traces back to being misdiagnosed and prescribed 5 antibiotic recipes back-to-back as a child. Long and tedious story short, when I cut milk, gluten/short carbs/whatever pesticide they use for wheat, and excess sugar from e.g. prefabbed food from my diet I gained 10kg and my life basically turned around. Turns out having your gut constantly inflamed is bad for your mental health. I have missed so many opportunities because of this. It's not right. ED: Apparently I need to point out that one possible cause may be that antibiotics killed the gut bacteria I needed to process milk, wheat and sugar. If so, this malady could be solved with a less revolting alternative to fecal transplants.
- peteradio 8y ago
  Glyphosate?
  - ganzuul 8y ago
    Who knows. When I eat too much wheat I feel like I have a hangover for two days. Over here they started adding selenium to the soil in 60s, and my grandmother tells me no one complained about bread making them sick before that. Perhaps it's that additive that makes tractor fuel oil exhaust blue, or too much selective breeding without thought to nutrition, or some kind of preservation practice which 99% of people don't have a problem with while the remaining 1% didn't seem important to someone with a rubber stamp.
    - gbear605 8y ago
      Or the 1% was unknown
      - ganzuul 8y ago
        An awful lot is being written about it these days. I hope we come to the root of the issue, whatever it may be.
    - scottlocklin 8y ago
avgDev 8y ago
The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlook on the world gets worse. I did therapy, it was nice to talk about things I would not bring up with friends/SO. I tried meds but side-effects generally suck and the whole medical industry in the US raises my blood pressure. Edit: I would still encourage anyone feeling unhappy/depressed to try all the options meds/therapy/meditation/w.e before accepting defeat.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Agreed. The average human is illogical. It's not easy for Vulcans to live among Ferengies. I don't claim to be "mostly right", but I do claim to use and be able to produce a logical train of thought for recommending courses of actions. I can write it out in detail if and when requested. However, few are really interested in a logical justification: they usually use office politics and their "gut" to decide. Sorry, but most guts are not very bright nor accurate in my experience. I've decided it's best to join them instead of fight them because humans are social animals above all else. But, it's not easy to transition at all. I think I was born on the wrong planet.
  - magduf 8y ago
    If you live around people who resemble Ferengi (that's the proper plural form), then maybe you should look at relocating to a different country where the people don't share the attitudes of the Ferengi.
    - mjevans 8y ago
      Tell me, when can we begin construction of a new utopia in international waters with emigration and citizenship requirements that are angled at attracting Vulcan-like types? What are your plans for getting world nations to recognize the sovereign authority of such a region and for being economically healthy over the long term? I've never run the numbers, but pre-napkin estimation makes me believe such ventures are too risky, expensive, and rife for scams from 'Ferengi' to be worth exploring.
gprasanth 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment
vijay_n 8y ago
Social media's are a catalyst to depression!
drugme 8y ago
Or people are just piling up on you.
GlenTheMachine 8y ago
This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the article, anger isn't usually associated with depression. And it wasn't clear to her either, because in her mind all of her anger was justified. Most of it was my fault. I had to keep telling myself that, no, it wasn't my fault. I wish I had had a support group or something but I didn't know that such things existed. Happily, she did eventually find a doctor who worked with her to get a correct diagnosis and figure out the right meds (in her case, a specific SSRI. But everyone is different). She is a thousand percent better now - she's back to being the woman I married. But without diagnosis and treatment, we would not be married today. If you have frequent anxiety attacks accompanied by anger, violent or not, definitely consider depression as a possible cause. If you are living with someone with these symptoms, get yourself some support. If your partner's anger turns to violence, for your own wellbeing, leave. Even if you are a man, abused spouse centers should help you.
- magduf 8y ago
  My last girlfriend was a lot like this. She ended up dumping me because I changed my mind about moving in with her, because I wasn't very happy at home with her. I think she's probably seriously depressed, but hides it with anger. I have no idea, unfortunately, how to help her, and don't think I can; she refused to even communicate with me after the break-up (which was by text message).
- vinbreau 8y ago
  My wife put her foot down eventually and told me she wasn't going to be able to live with me any more after too many verbal angry outbursts. I received an ADHD diagnosis as a child but was never treated. I lived with the extreme anger all my life and only recently sought treatment as an adult. Doing that was really hard after a lifetime of people telling me it was simply a matter of adjusting my attitude and that I brought all my troubles on myself. I'm finally on treatment after 45 years of that unending anger. It is definitely depression mixed with ADHD and anxiety. I'll have to see a therapist about potential PTSD issues. Adult depression can be a nasty mix of various issues and treating only one pillar can leave the rest to continue. Seeking the help from a doctor was almost impossible. It took me years to get up the nerve to mention it. Why? Because it was all my fault, I had been told this so for long that I was embarrassed. What if he tells me it's just a matter of eating right and that I'm just a regular guy? I was mortified of being rejected for treatment. Thankfully that didn't happen. It can be very hard for people to seek treatment, the stigma of not being able to perform like everybody else around you, all the while being told to just cheer up, think positive, be happy, you can do it! It's crushing.
grawprog 8y ago
Ya...I figured this out a while ago. I figure it's because it's easier to be angry than depressed, at least in the short term. When you're angry it feels like you're doing something, even if you're not. It takes your energy and attention away from whatever is making you depressed(likely something that can't really be changed easily) and focusses it on something tangible you can lash out at. I've come to learn over the years it doesn't really help and you end up feeling worse after because you add on the regret about whatever you did when you were mad to the already existent depresseion and it ends up building up and continuing in a cycle that gets worse. The more angry you get, the more depressed you get which in turn makes you more angry next time. This is what i've kind of learned over the years. I've also found I regret just about every decision i've ever made while angry.
teh_infallible 8y ago
This rings true to me. My ex was often angry, and would eventually start taking that anger out on me. Then she went on antidepressants, and became much more pleasant to live with, and easier to talk to. Then she went off them again and we broke up :)
narrator 8y ago
You might also have a personality disorder, but people don't want to hear that because you can't really treat those.
sjg007 8y ago
This is timely for me. I think anger is a precursor to tiredness, the eventual feeling of helplessness, and definitely an early warning.
LinuxBender 8y ago
I am not depressed, but I am often annoyed by the idiots that won't stop staring at their phones when getting onto or off of the elevator. I can be annoyed without being depressed. I am not related to these ding-dongs, so it's only their progeny that should be depressed.
- fifnir 8y ago
  You might be depressed
  - LinuxBender 8y ago
    Nope. Quite happy. I just want to get on the elevator before the door closes and I have to wait another 5 minutes.
    - klodolph 8y ago
      I have no reason to disbelieve you when you say that you’re not depressed, but depression is not the same thing as sadness or the absence of happiness. You can be happy and depressed at the same time.
    - jamessantiago 8y ago
      Does waiting another 5 minutes really matter that much? It could be worse, I suppose, maybe there could be no elevator and you'd need to climb the stairs. Maybe there could be a line to the stairs. Maybe this isn't a symptom of depression per se, but such anger seems to be to be a factor of discontent that still may benefit from therapy or self-help.
    - LinuxBender 8y ago
      It sounds like you folks really want me to be depressed. :-) I can say, having been raised by a psychoanalyst, that I certainly have issues, but depression just isn't one of them.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Maybe you should take the stairs.
randomacct3847 8y ago
Isn’t there a pos correlation between intelligence and depresssion
rmason 8y ago
I'm not sure they're right. As a man at least when you get to a certain age you lose the filter. I saw it in my dad and now I see it in myself. When you're younger bosses might BS you but you don't know it. When you get older you know it but feel helpless in doing anything about it. You reach a certain age and you call people on it. That might be one reason in tech that they don't want older employees. Being freer is tied to age, not depression.
- User23 8y ago
  One of the best things I've noticed about aging is no longer caring what other people think. Some of this is due to having built some financial security, but I believe there is more to it than that.
  - geoelectric 8y ago
    Speaking as aging dude who largely doesn't care what other people think, some of it comes from financial security. However, I'd say some comes down to being more assured in my beliefs that my positions are reasonable places to start, if not always right. Some comes down to understanding exactly how little it matters what other people think of you in most contexts, and trying to only manage the contexts where that's not true. All of that can go sideways in a way that you won't necessarily catch until damage done, which leads to the third realization with age: there's very little damage you can do once that can't be repaired. Most irreparable damage comes from you repeatedly convincing someone you're a jerk, assuming you don't completely turn them off on first impression. None of which is to say you should lead by being an ass when you get old, just that I don't worry about impressions so much anymore unless it's strategic. Micromanaging them never got me anywhere, better to confidently try something reasonable then pick up the pieces if I'm off base. That's gotten me way further.
rhspeer 8y ago
Yup, this was me for 18 years. Doctor had me fixed in about 45 minutes. Massive life improvement all around. Feel dumb about waiting 18 years, so I talk about it to break down the stigma associated with mental health.
- cakebrewery 8y ago
  Care to elaborate what the fix was?
- onemoresoop 8y ago
  How did your doctor had you fixed in 45 minutes?
  - rhspeer 8y ago
    Well I took a written survey about my symptoms answered some questions. Doc said my brain did not produce enough of something and wrote me a script. She's a funny old lady and was hilarious about how she liked these pills because it did not effect my funny hand gestures here. I was sceptical, but took half a pill as she instructed. Next thing I know I am eating a sandwich at chick-fill-a not hating Chick-fil-A people thinking normal is going to be EASY. I kept taking half pills a week longer that instructed because the positivity was a bit much to take. I accidentally took 2 pills a couple times and I feel so positive I annoy myself. If I forget a pill the old familiar negativity and muscle pain in my shoulders comes back. I do still dislike Chick-fil-A people.
    - onemoresoop 8y ago
      Make sure you educate yourself on what those pills you're taking do and follow through a treatment, not just take them indefinitely.
      - rhspeer 8y ago
        I recognize the good intentions of your comment. However, I want to push back a bit. I was depressed, but not from trauma. I avoided going to the doc to avoid long term prescription drug use and therapy. I regret that decision, and it cost me career opportunities and damaged relationships. It is a legitimate concern, but wildly overstated in my mind for 18 tough years.
vonnik 8y ago
Depression expresses itself in a lot of unexpected ways. While severe depression can lead to the symptoms Hollywood has introduced us to -- total inertia, not getting out of bed, etc. -- somewhat milder but chronic versions include anxiety, low-intensity anger, disturbed sleep and appetite, among many other things.
renholder 8y ago
TIL that my irritablness/brashness is rooted in my depression. Feck.
crescentfresh 8y ago
> irritability — a reduced control over one's temper that results in angry outbursts — is listed as a core symptom of depression for children and adolescents There are a lot of "this is me" comments ITT. Can anyone touch on their experience of anger/temper as a result of depression in their children or even in themselves as a child? I didn't realize there was established research on depression symptoms in children. I always associated it with "sadness"/darkness and feelings of worthlessness that the [adult] mind can suffer. I have two wonderful boys. The youngest always had a bit of a tendency to overreact/outburst on little things. For example he'll lose/die in a video game and just utterly lose his mind. Since my ex and I separated when he was 5 things have been the same and I never connected that it may be due to depression. Maybe he has been carrying this for a long time.
Avshalom 8y ago
"hey, those of you with depression, did it make you angry at everything and did anti depressants help" was the question I asked the day I finally started getting help. (I was in the middle of almost getting fired over a dress code violation as entry level retail) I don't know if the help has really helped over the long term but recognizing that incandescent rage at people saying 'good morning' to me as a sign of an incoming down swing has at least helped me keep an eye on myself.
seancoleman 8y ago
It took me years to recognize that irritability and anger were actually latent side effects of coffee consumption, and related to increased anxiety. I'm curious, has anyone else experienced this and found success with cutting out caffeine?
- decasteve 8y ago
  I have. But only if I overdo it. Red bull triggers an irritability in me. Too much coffee too. A cup or two of coffee during the day doesn’t.
- munchhausen 8y ago
  Yeah, caffeine gives me a short fuse like nothing else. As little as a coffee in the morning would basically make me prone to fly off the handle due to the most insignificant, trivial little things. Cost me and my wife many hours spent in pointless discussions and unnecessary arguments. Don't get me wrong, I love coffee, but I have to treat it like you would a recreational drug. Only to be enjoyed when the set and the setting is right.
Tomte 8y ago
There is another aspect that may sound ludicrous, but I think also plays a role: If I go to the doctor and say I may have depression because I'm angry and vindictive, he may dismiss me not as a depressive, but as an asshole. Mental health is hard, in part because you can diagnose[1] it even less than many physical ailments. I have a cut on my finger and I can't stop the bleeding and OMG all the blood? Emergency room! (And please don't ask how long I pondered whether I should go, because it's not exactly a big wound). My leg isn't looking straight and it hurts like hell? Call an ambulance! I don't feel well? What now? [1] I don't mean come to a definitive diagnosis what illness this is in Latin medical terms, but a simple answer to "is something wrong – and sufficiently wrong to see a doctor?"
amriksohata 8y ago
Is there any data available for those more likely to be depressed ouf of these or similar categories: 1) Atheists 2) Creationists (of all religions) 3) Non practicising creationists (of all religions) I'm not promoting any of the above here but I would like to see if there is any correlation between those who believe in a higher purpose and whether they are less or more likely to feel existential depression as they feel there is a reason to be here vs just being here to procreate because of evolution.
- ggm 8y ago
  Stoicism feels like the best path out for a depressed athiest. "Best of all possible worlds" but without the theism
hateful 8y ago
Clinical Depression is often caused by a chemical imbalance, usually serotonin. It isn't being "sad" and doesn't usually have root cause in a certain event or direct emotion - though those things can trigger the already existing issue. We have to remember that the term Depression in this sense doesn't mean what it means in the common sense. Just like words like "Theory" have different meanings in the common vernacular. It's closer to Anxiety than it is to Sadness.
- ben_jones 8y ago
  There's a lot of evidence against the industry standard "Serotonin deficiency" being the silver bullet that can be, guess what, cured by buying a pill from $BIG_PHARMA.
anon2567578 8y ago
Does this new information, namely that depression can cause anger, change the advice for distinguishing between depression and burnout? I.e. Burnout: no energy for specific thing or things eg work, but plenty of inspiration for other things Depression: no energy for anything?
twodave 8y ago
My personal challenges with anger/depression came from attempts to escape reality. It started out as a way to spend my down time (video games). Then over time it became what I looked forward to doing. I would skip outings with friends and ignore my family in favor of playing games. Then it morphed into other forms of impulsive behavior. After about 20 years (2/3 of my life to that point) I had become an extremely selfish and self-centered person. I would feel empty, so I'd go do something selfish to make myself feel better. But it only lasted for the moment. Afterwards I'd feel upset that I wasted all my time but also not want to quit. So I'd be angry about it and the anger didn't just stay inside. I'd take it out on those who were preventing me from returning to my cave (family mostly). The big turning point to me was my faith. My addictions (which were various) had put me into a marital and even existential crisis. I basically had to hit rock bottom (and bounce a couple times). I had to be faced with fighting for everything I loved. Every single day is a struggle, depressed or not. I am always a few breaths away from going back down the rabbit hole. What a wretched man I am. There's no "cure" for me in this life I don't think, but giving up the fight can be deadly and hurt a lot of people I love, so I choose to fight.
- uneasy-sausage 8y ago
  Have you cut out some of the compulsive habits/actions such as binging video games?
  - twodave 8y ago
    Yeah, as far as video games, occasionally I will install something on my phone or whatever but I’ve found I either don’t enjoy them anymore because they feel too much like work, or else they wreck me pretty quickly and I end up just ripping the band aid off by uninstalling. Some of the other habits have been easier. For instance I quit drinking over 5 years ago and haven’t looked back. Still other habits have proven way more difficult and I continue to battle them.
hema_n 8y ago
It is really helpful.

405 points by tuxguy 8y ago

If you ever feel angry, irritable, sad, apathetic, restless, tired or any way other than perfectly fine, positive and happy, then you're suffering from depression. Go to your nearest psychiatrist to be assured that you're a victim, that your brain is broken and there's nothing that you can do, and that the only path to feeling "normal" is becoming dependent on a high-priced drug cocktail that will alter your brain chemistry. This message was most certainly not brought to you by the pharmaceutical industry.

sgift 8y ago
Because in your world the only way to help people with depression are anti-depressants? Unlike the real world where people have various options (e.g. psychotherapy)?
- QuercusMax 8y ago
  Pretty sure the grandparent post was satirical. Hence the "this post NOT brought to you by the pharmaceutical industry".
- cloakandswagger 8y ago
  In my world people aren't encouraged to start any sort of professional treatment as a first course of action, as it totally externalizes one's locus of control and robs them of the ability to help themselves through learned skills of introspection and metacognition.
epx 8y ago
Naturally it is when you are angry for no reason and it goes for months :)
war1025 8y ago
For the downvoters, I'm fairly certain this was an attempt at sarcasm.
- rimunroe 8y ago
  The sarcasm wasn't helpful and wasn't in good taste. In addition to what my sibling commenters have said, going to a doctor because you suspect you might be depressed or have any other concerns about your mental health doesn't automatically lead to being told you need to go on medication. Personally, I've known a few people who didn't talk to their doctors about their depression for a long time precisely because they didn't want to go on medication (or because they couldn't for family/cultural reasons). Because of that, they missed out on things like talk therapy which probably could have helped them.
kec 8y ago
Depression isn't "feeling any way other than perfectly fine", it's feeling so continuously for an extended period of time such that your mental state begins to prevent you from living a normal life. Depression is a real issue for some people, and by trivializing it and blaming big pharma all you're doing is reinforcing the stigma around mental illness which makes it harder for people who really need it to seek help.
- cloakandswagger 8y ago
  17% of the US population self-reported taking some form of psychiatric drug [1]. We're way past the point of truly disturbed people not seeking help due to the stigma of mental illness. Instead, it's cheerfully celebrated and encouraged in a way that I imagine will only stop once 100% of the country is zombified by mind-altering drugs. The pendulum needs to swing back towards self-help and the idea that some discomfort is a part of normal life. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1-in-6-americans-takes-a-psychiatric-drug/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1-in-6-americans-...
  - kec 8y ago
    Seeking help may end up including drugs as part of treatment, it may not. Pushing the narrative that depression isn't real and that depressed people should just get over it is ignorant and actively harms folks who do need help by reinforcing the stigma surrounding mental illness.
  - mplewis 8y ago
    There's still a massive stigma against people with mental illness today. By no means are we "way past the point of truly disturbed people not seeking help due to the stigma of mental illness."
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    Kind of amazing how the modern world survived and even managed to send men to the moon without 17% of the population taking addictive brain melting pharmies that literally nobody understands. What boggles my mind is nobody reflects on this and thinks popping pills is some kind of normal thing. But hey, having such thoughts is probably a sign of depression. "There's always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now. You can carry at least half your morality about in a bottle. Christianity without tears-that's what soma is." World Controller Mustapha Mond
sctb 8y ago
Please comment substantively instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

alangpierce 8y ago

This certainly agrees with my experience. I've had a number of cases in the past where I'm feeling low/depressed at work and tend to get more frustrated, e.g. annoyed with some policy or some design decision or some detail about the code that I'm working with. It's a bit counterintuitive that sadness and lowness would do that, but it seems to be a pretty clear pattern. After a number of cases of expressing that frustration and regretting it later, I've set a rule for myself that I should mostly keep my mouth shut if I'm feeling depressed. If I do want to follow up, I should just write down my thoughts and talk through the issue later when I'm feeling better. Fortunately I'm pretty good these days about being aware of when I'm feeling depressed.

ksec 8y ago

Assuming a product person ( e.g Steve Jobs ) is easily Angry and Irritable with crap ( Which there are lots of it ), would that considered as depressed? Where do we draw a line where some body just have very high standard to everything ( Perfectionist ) or they actually have bipolar disorder.

cmiller1 8y ago
The line between personality traits and mental disorder is usually drawn at "does this have a significant negative impact on the person's functioning?"
- justtopost 8y ago
  If our functioning is negative due to our environment, rather than the impetus to our actions, what then?
  - mLuby 8y ago
    It's unfortunate, but the environment is unlikely to change, so if you dislike your symptoms you've gotta change what you can. That said, if you can change your environment (new job, new home, new friends, etc) that's going to be a heck of a lot easier than changing yourself.
ashleyn 8y ago
I've known many people who have Jobsian tendencies. They don't have depression, just a low tolerance for bullshit.
- ergothus 8y ago
  > just a low tolerance for bullshit. How about "just a low tolerance for what they perceive as bullshit"? It seems many such people perceive things like manners, respect for other people, and anything that doesn't push their personal current priority as "bullshit".

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

Or tired? Both lead to unwarranted angry outbursts IME.

paublyrne 8y ago
True ... Also depression often causes sleep problems resulting in tiredness.
imaffett 8y ago
I'll second this. I put myself in a downward spiral from bad sleep and being dependent on caffeine. I'm now aware of how I "feel" when I'm just really tired.
Tharkun 8y ago
Indeed. I wanted to comment that sleep apnea can also cause irritability.
dspillett 8y ago
Tired can be a consequence of depressed, or many other things, so this could be an indirect (even cyclical) reaction. I'm a tad bipolar. When I have an angry manic the cause is direct, but when I have a "happy manic" that lasts for an appreciable time angry is soon to follow too, I think mainly because I can't sleep well in that state. When I'm down I sleep, in fact sometimes practically hibernate, but it often isn't useful/refreshing sleep so again anger comes from that.

thecatspaw 8y ago

Whilw the gdpr text version is an applaudable step by npr, I wish they didnt link to their frontpage. Can someone link it?

isp 8y ago
https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=689747637 The URL is https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID> https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=<SID>, where <SID> is in the original URL here: www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/<YEAR>/<MONTH>/<DAY>/<SID>/<SLUG>

ohiovr 8y ago

A long time ago before I was treated for bipolar disorder I found my depression was related to anger turned inward at myself. But others I have talked to didn’t always relate this way as I did with depression.

webmobdev 8y ago
If you mean inward anger = self-loathing / self-hatred, you are right as that's a common symptom of depression too.
- ohiovr 8y ago
  Exactly what I had :)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

totesraunch 8y ago
Severe depression isn't the only type of depression. Like most mental illness there are degrees to which people are affected. So yes, while people with short tempers might not be depressed, depressed people might have short tempers; which is exactly what the article is espousing.

mongol 8y ago

Could also be too much coffee.

epx 8y ago

That's how I discovered my own depression.

ganzuul 8y ago

I have had to deal with inexplicable anger and irritability for a long time. It is possible this traces back to being misdiagnosed and prescribed 5 antibiotic recipes back-to-back as a child. Long and tedious story short, when I cut milk, gluten/short carbs/whatever pesticide they use for wheat, and excess sugar from e.g. prefabbed food from my diet I gained 10kg and my life basically turned around. Turns out having your gut constantly inflamed is bad for your mental health. I have missed so many opportunities because of this. It's not right. ED: Apparently I need to point out that one possible cause may be that antibiotics killed the gut bacteria I needed to process milk, wheat and sugar. If so, this malady could be solved with a less revolting alternative to fecal transplants.

peteradio 8y ago
Glyphosate?
- ganzuul 8y ago
  Who knows. When I eat too much wheat I feel like I have a hangover for two days. Over here they started adding selenium to the soil in 60s, and my grandmother tells me no one complained about bread making them sick before that. Perhaps it's that additive that makes tractor fuel oil exhaust blue, or too much selective breeding without thought to nutrition, or some kind of preservation practice which 99% of people don't have a problem with while the remaining 1% didn't seem important to someone with a rubber stamp.
  - gbear605 8y ago
    Or the 1% was unknown
    - ganzuul 8y ago
      An awful lot is being written about it these days. I hope we come to the root of the issue, whatever it may be.
  - scottlocklin 8y ago

avgDev 8y ago

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlook on the world gets worse. I did therapy, it was nice to talk about things I would not bring up with friends/SO. I tried meds but side-effects generally suck and the whole medical industry in the US raises my blood pressure. Edit: I would still encourage anyone feeling unhappy/depressed to try all the options meds/therapy/meditation/w.e before accepting defeat.

tabtab 8y ago
Agreed. The average human is illogical. It's not easy for Vulcans to live among Ferengies. I don't claim to be "mostly right", but I do claim to use and be able to produce a logical train of thought for recommending courses of actions. I can write it out in detail if and when requested. However, few are really interested in a logical justification: they usually use office politics and their "gut" to decide. Sorry, but most guts are not very bright nor accurate in my experience. I've decided it's best to join them instead of fight them because humans are social animals above all else. But, it's not easy to transition at all. I think I was born on the wrong planet.
- magduf 8y ago
  If you live around people who resemble Ferengi (that's the proper plural form), then maybe you should look at relocating to a different country where the people don't share the attitudes of the Ferengi.
  - mjevans 8y ago
    Tell me, when can we begin construction of a new utopia in international waters with emigration and citizenship requirements that are angled at attracting Vulcan-like types? What are your plans for getting world nations to recognize the sovereign authority of such a region and for being economically healthy over the long term? I've never run the numbers, but pre-napkin estimation makes me believe such ventures are too risky, expensive, and rife for scams from 'Ferengi' to be worth exploring.

gprasanth 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contentment

vijay_n 8y ago

Social media's are a catalyst to depression!

drugme 8y ago

Or people are just piling up on you.

GlenTheMachine 8y ago

This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the article, anger isn't usually associated with depression. And it wasn't clear to her either, because in her mind all of her anger was justified. Most of it was my fault. I had to keep telling myself that, no, it wasn't my fault. I wish I had had a support group or something but I didn't know that such things existed. Happily, she did eventually find a doctor who worked with her to get a correct diagnosis and figure out the right meds (in her case, a specific SSRI. But everyone is different). She is a thousand percent better now - she's back to being the woman I married. But without diagnosis and treatment, we would not be married today. If you have frequent anxiety attacks accompanied by anger, violent or not, definitely consider depression as a possible cause. If you are living with someone with these symptoms, get yourself some support. If your partner's anger turns to violence, for your own wellbeing, leave. Even if you are a man, abused spouse centers should help you.

magduf 8y ago
My last girlfriend was a lot like this. She ended up dumping me because I changed my mind about moving in with her, because I wasn't very happy at home with her. I think she's probably seriously depressed, but hides it with anger. I have no idea, unfortunately, how to help her, and don't think I can; she refused to even communicate with me after the break-up (which was by text message).
vinbreau 8y ago
My wife put her foot down eventually and told me she wasn't going to be able to live with me any more after too many verbal angry outbursts. I received an ADHD diagnosis as a child but was never treated. I lived with the extreme anger all my life and only recently sought treatment as an adult. Doing that was really hard after a lifetime of people telling me it was simply a matter of adjusting my attitude and that I brought all my troubles on myself. I'm finally on treatment after 45 years of that unending anger. It is definitely depression mixed with ADHD and anxiety. I'll have to see a therapist about potential PTSD issues. Adult depression can be a nasty mix of various issues and treating only one pillar can leave the rest to continue. Seeking the help from a doctor was almost impossible. It took me years to get up the nerve to mention it. Why? Because it was all my fault, I had been told this so for long that I was embarrassed. What if he tells me it's just a matter of eating right and that I'm just a regular guy? I was mortified of being rejected for treatment. Thankfully that didn't happen. It can be very hard for people to seek treatment, the stigma of not being able to perform like everybody else around you, all the while being told to just cheer up, think positive, be happy, you can do it! It's crushing.

grawprog 8y ago

Ya...I figured this out a while ago. I figure it's because it's easier to be angry than depressed, at least in the short term. When you're angry it feels like you're doing something, even if you're not. It takes your energy and attention away from whatever is making you depressed(likely something that can't really be changed easily) and focusses it on something tangible you can lash out at. I've come to learn over the years it doesn't really help and you end up feeling worse after because you add on the regret about whatever you did when you were mad to the already existent depresseion and it ends up building up and continuing in a cycle that gets worse. The more angry you get, the more depressed you get which in turn makes you more angry next time. This is what i've kind of learned over the years. I've also found I regret just about every decision i've ever made while angry.

teh_infallible 8y ago

This rings true to me. My ex was often angry, and would eventually start taking that anger out on me. Then she went on antidepressants, and became much more pleasant to live with, and easier to talk to. Then she went off them again and we broke up :)

narrator 8y ago

You might also have a personality disorder, but people don't want to hear that because you can't really treat those.

sjg007 8y ago

This is timely for me. I think anger is a precursor to tiredness, the eventual feeling of helplessness, and definitely an early warning.

LinuxBender 8y ago

I am not depressed, but I am often annoyed by the idiots that won't stop staring at their phones when getting onto or off of the elevator. I can be annoyed without being depressed. I am not related to these ding-dongs, so it's only their progeny that should be depressed.

fifnir 8y ago
You might be depressed
- LinuxBender 8y ago
  Nope. Quite happy. I just want to get on the elevator before the door closes and I have to wait another 5 minutes.
  - klodolph 8y ago
    I have no reason to disbelieve you when you say that you’re not depressed, but depression is not the same thing as sadness or the absence of happiness. You can be happy and depressed at the same time.
  - jamessantiago 8y ago
    Does waiting another 5 minutes really matter that much? It could be worse, I suppose, maybe there could be no elevator and you'd need to climb the stairs. Maybe there could be a line to the stairs. Maybe this isn't a symptom of depression per se, but such anger seems to be to be a factor of discontent that still may benefit from therapy or self-help.
  - LinuxBender 8y ago
    It sounds like you folks really want me to be depressed. :-) I can say, having been raised by a psychoanalyst, that I certainly have issues, but depression just isn't one of them.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Maybe you should take the stairs.

randomacct3847 8y ago

Isn’t there a pos correlation between intelligence and depresssion

rmason 8y ago

I'm not sure they're right. As a man at least when you get to a certain age you lose the filter. I saw it in my dad and now I see it in myself. When you're younger bosses might BS you but you don't know it. When you get older you know it but feel helpless in doing anything about it. You reach a certain age and you call people on it. That might be one reason in tech that they don't want older employees. Being freer is tied to age, not depression.

User23 8y ago
One of the best things I've noticed about aging is no longer caring what other people think. Some of this is due to having built some financial security, but I believe there is more to it than that.
- geoelectric 8y ago
  Speaking as aging dude who largely doesn't care what other people think, some of it comes from financial security. However, I'd say some comes down to being more assured in my beliefs that my positions are reasonable places to start, if not always right. Some comes down to understanding exactly how little it matters what other people think of you in most contexts, and trying to only manage the contexts where that's not true. All of that can go sideways in a way that you won't necessarily catch until damage done, which leads to the third realization with age: there's very little damage you can do once that can't be repaired. Most irreparable damage comes from you repeatedly convincing someone you're a jerk, assuming you don't completely turn them off on first impression. None of which is to say you should lead by being an ass when you get old, just that I don't worry about impressions so much anymore unless it's strategic. Micromanaging them never got me anywhere, better to confidently try something reasonable then pick up the pieces if I'm off base. That's gotten me way further.

rhspeer 8y ago

Yup, this was me for 18 years. Doctor had me fixed in about 45 minutes. Massive life improvement all around. Feel dumb about waiting 18 years, so I talk about it to break down the stigma associated with mental health.

cakebrewery 8y ago
Care to elaborate what the fix was?
onemoresoop 8y ago
How did your doctor had you fixed in 45 minutes?
- rhspeer 8y ago
  Well I took a written survey about my symptoms answered some questions. Doc said my brain did not produce enough of something and wrote me a script. She's a funny old lady and was hilarious about how she liked these pills because it did not effect my funny hand gestures here. I was sceptical, but took half a pill as she instructed. Next thing I know I am eating a sandwich at chick-fill-a not hating Chick-fil-A people thinking normal is going to be EASY. I kept taking half pills a week longer that instructed because the positivity was a bit much to take. I accidentally took 2 pills a couple times and I feel so positive I annoy myself. If I forget a pill the old familiar negativity and muscle pain in my shoulders comes back. I do still dislike Chick-fil-A people.
  - onemoresoop 8y ago
    Make sure you educate yourself on what those pills you're taking do and follow through a treatment, not just take them indefinitely.
    - rhspeer 8y ago
      I recognize the good intentions of your comment. However, I want to push back a bit. I was depressed, but not from trauma. I avoided going to the doc to avoid long term prescription drug use and therapy. I regret that decision, and it cost me career opportunities and damaged relationships. It is a legitimate concern, but wildly overstated in my mind for 18 tough years.

vonnik 8y ago

Depression expresses itself in a lot of unexpected ways. While severe depression can lead to the symptoms Hollywood has introduced us to -- total inertia, not getting out of bed, etc. -- somewhat milder but chronic versions include anxiety, low-intensity anger, disturbed sleep and appetite, among many other things.

renholder 8y ago

TIL that my irritablness/brashness is rooted in my depression. Feck.

crescentfresh 8y ago

> irritability — a reduced control over one's temper that results in angry outbursts — is listed as a core symptom of depression for children and adolescents There are a lot of "this is me" comments ITT. Can anyone touch on their experience of anger/temper as a result of depression in their children or even in themselves as a child? I didn't realize there was established research on depression symptoms in children. I always associated it with "sadness"/darkness and feelings of worthlessness that the [adult] mind can suffer. I have two wonderful boys. The youngest always had a bit of a tendency to overreact/outburst on little things. For example he'll lose/die in a video game and just utterly lose his mind. Since my ex and I separated when he was 5 things have been the same and I never connected that it may be due to depression. Maybe he has been carrying this for a long time.

Avshalom 8y ago

"hey, those of you with depression, did it make you angry at everything and did anti depressants help" was the question I asked the day I finally started getting help. (I was in the middle of almost getting fired over a dress code violation as entry level retail) I don't know if the help has really helped over the long term but recognizing that incandescent rage at people saying 'good morning' to me as a sign of an incoming down swing has at least helped me keep an eye on myself.

seancoleman 8y ago

It took me years to recognize that irritability and anger were actually latent side effects of coffee consumption, and related to increased anxiety. I'm curious, has anyone else experienced this and found success with cutting out caffeine?

decasteve 8y ago
I have. But only if I overdo it. Red bull triggers an irritability in me. Too much coffee too. A cup or two of coffee during the day doesn’t.
munchhausen 8y ago
Yeah, caffeine gives me a short fuse like nothing else. As little as a coffee in the morning would basically make me prone to fly off the handle due to the most insignificant, trivial little things. Cost me and my wife many hours spent in pointless discussions and unnecessary arguments. Don't get me wrong, I love coffee, but I have to treat it like you would a recreational drug. Only to be enjoyed when the set and the setting is right.

Tomte 8y ago

There is another aspect that may sound ludicrous, but I think also plays a role: If I go to the doctor and say I may have depression because I'm angry and vindictive, he may dismiss me not as a depressive, but as an asshole. Mental health is hard, in part because you can diagnose[1] it even less than many physical ailments. I have a cut on my finger and I can't stop the bleeding and OMG all the blood? Emergency room! (And please don't ask how long I pondered whether I should go, because it's not exactly a big wound). My leg isn't looking straight and it hurts like hell? Call an ambulance! I don't feel well? What now? [1] I don't mean come to a definitive diagnosis what illness this is in Latin medical terms, but a simple answer to "is something wrong – and sufficiently wrong to see a doctor?"

amriksohata 8y ago

Is there any data available for those more likely to be depressed ouf of these or similar categories: 1) Atheists 2) Creationists (of all religions) 3) Non practicising creationists (of all religions) I'm not promoting any of the above here but I would like to see if there is any correlation between those who believe in a higher purpose and whether they are less or more likely to feel existential depression as they feel there is a reason to be here vs just being here to procreate because of evolution.

ggm 8y ago
Stoicism feels like the best path out for a depressed athiest. "Best of all possible worlds" but without the theism

hateful 8y ago

Clinical Depression is often caused by a chemical imbalance, usually serotonin. It isn't being "sad" and doesn't usually have root cause in a certain event or direct emotion - though those things can trigger the already existing issue. We have to remember that the term Depression in this sense doesn't mean what it means in the common sense. Just like words like "Theory" have different meanings in the common vernacular. It's closer to Anxiety than it is to Sadness.

ben_jones 8y ago
There's a lot of evidence against the industry standard "Serotonin deficiency" being the silver bullet that can be, guess what, cured by buying a pill from $BIG_PHARMA.

anon2567578 8y ago

Does this new information, namely that depression can cause anger, change the advice for distinguishing between depression and burnout? I.e. Burnout: no energy for specific thing or things eg work, but plenty of inspiration for other things Depression: no energy for anything?

twodave 8y ago

My personal challenges with anger/depression came from attempts to escape reality. It started out as a way to spend my down time (video games). Then over time it became what I looked forward to doing. I would skip outings with friends and ignore my family in favor of playing games. Then it morphed into other forms of impulsive behavior. After about 20 years (2/3 of my life to that point) I had become an extremely selfish and self-centered person. I would feel empty, so I'd go do something selfish to make myself feel better. But it only lasted for the moment. Afterwards I'd feel upset that I wasted all my time but also not want to quit. So I'd be angry about it and the anger didn't just stay inside. I'd take it out on those who were preventing me from returning to my cave (family mostly). The big turning point to me was my faith. My addictions (which were various) had put me into a marital and even existential crisis. I basically had to hit rock bottom (and bounce a couple times). I had to be faced with fighting for everything I loved. Every single day is a struggle, depressed or not. I am always a few breaths away from going back down the rabbit hole. What a wretched man I am. There's no "cure" for me in this life I don't think, but giving up the fight can be deadly and hurt a lot of people I love, so I choose to fight.

uneasy-sausage 8y ago
Have you cut out some of the compulsive habits/actions such as binging video games?
- twodave 8y ago
  Yeah, as far as video games, occasionally I will install something on my phone or whatever but I’ve found I either don’t enjoy them anymore because they feel too much like work, or else they wreck me pretty quickly and I end up just ripping the band aid off by uninstalling. Some of the other habits have been easier. For instance I quit drinking over 5 years ago and haven’t looked back. Still other habits have proven way more difficult and I continue to battle them.

hema_n 8y ago

It is really helpful.