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Airbnb and security camera disclosure
- mscasts 8y agoThat is kind of creepy indeed. In my country you are allowed to video tape inside your own home and I assume that right extends even if you rent it out temporarily. I guess far from every host does this, I would even say it's probably very rare. But maybe there is a reason to stay in a hotel after all ;)
- 7Z7 8y agoIn general privacy law seem to work under the "expectation of privacy", which is why you see signs warning of security cameras or monitors showing what they see. In a rented room scenario, you obviously have an expectation of privacy up until someone tells you explicitly that there are cameras in the space, at which point I guess you can decide whether or not you want to stay there. So in this case (and depending on local laws, obviously) it seems like the renter would have to convince a judge that the photo of the room with a white blob in the corner was enough notice to circumvent that expectation of privacy.
- rjzzleep 8y agoI recently stayed in an AirBnB in Hamburg/Germany. Not only did he write that it's not a hostel everywhere. He used his smart home to keep the temperature below the legal limit and had all internals checked setup with cameras without any information. From the way he talked he also checked whether you exited the shower(not literally the shower, but the bathroom). He also had Bottles of sausages and would check through the camera who used them without paying. He also charged 50 cents for those coffee pads and used the camera to check on it. When I asked him to turn on the heater he lied to AirBnB on the phone(which they recorded) and then assaulted me and kicked me out. His one listing was removed temporarily but his other listings are still there. So yeah, even a hostel would have been better. Edit: the response from AirBnB was way better than the response from German authorities, but that may have been because they heard everything on the phone.
- detaro 8y agoI seriously hope you reported this to the authorities and not just AirBnB?
- rjzzleep 8y agoIt's Germany, and I have dark hair. When I went to file a police report the tall blonde police officer, he and his colleagues were mocking me in the back. I ended up telling them off and will report it to the tax office. Which, while nasty seems to be only thing that will get that guy into trouble, Police at least doesn't care even though he violates a dozen laws including standard German privacy practice.
- anc84 8y agoI am calling bullshit. There is very little chance that German police in Hamburg would not consider those alligations serious. Lots of Germans have black hair. Few Germans are tall and blonde. German police will file your case in any case.
- rjzzleep 8y agoI guess you don't have a lot of experience with the police here. This is actually very common. Whether you have dark hair or not, the former just makes it more likely. What I learned is that by law they're supposed to do that job. However, the general recommendation is not to go to the police, but rather to write the complaint to the DAs office[1]. Not only is a complaint to the DA office generally more fruitful they also immediately give you a reference number, which is more valuable than what most police officers will give you when you file a complaint there. I'm going to contact the DPO yes, but I don't have any expectations. I'm not a big fan of Casper actually, his last legal publication is about animal rights. The SH DPO is way better efficient and faster at decisions. The line up is two ladies leading it, one of them with a technical background(computer scientist) and the other one a lawyer[2]. I work in German government, and we even tried to pay SH to get feedback(something they won't do). That's why I was surprised when the Hamburg DPO received praise at the 35C3, since that's not inline with what I've seen from them at all. [1] https://www.unternehmer.de/recht-gesetze/122808-so-erstatten-sie-professionell-anzeige-teil-i https://www.unternehmer.de/recht-gesetze/122808-so-erstatten... [2] https://www.datenschutzzentrum.de/ueber-uns/ https://www.datenschutzzentrum.de/ueber-uns/
- mscasts 8y agoWell in Sweden (which is where I live), at least one case I know of where I man video taped him having sex with women in his apartment didn't get any repercussions for it since it's perfectly legal to film someone in your own home without them knowing about it. It is illegal however, to share that film without consent or video tape outside the apartment. You can video tape with your camera moving around in a public space without permission, but same here you cannot share it online or something like that. I agree with these rulings and I think it should indeed be legal to video tape inside your own home. It's very illogical if that wasn't the case.
- pluma 8y agoIf you're in the EU it does not. You can record anything you want in the privacy of your home but if you record other people, they need to consent to it. The reasoning described in the article "but there's a camera in the picture of the room so you agreed to it" certainly wouldn't hold up under any interpretation of the GDPR. Also even if it's your home, if you rent it out, that's a commercial activity even if it's your personal residence.
- alkonaut 8y agoAlso, if you have a clearly visible camera, I as a guest would cover it up the second I see it, and uncover it when I move out. I realize not everyone wants to adapt their home by tearing down theeir own cameras but they can power them down and have a post it note next to it saying "this is part of my alarm system but it's disconnected when AirBnB guests stay here, feel free to put this note note over the lens if you like /host". If you have a hidden camera and someone found it, the reviews wouldn't be good for business.
- mscasts 8y agoI live in the EU (Sweden) and here it's definately legal to record a video of someone in your own apartment. With or without their consent.
- pluma 8y agoI doubt the latter part is entirely true, especially post-GDPR. Privacy law always depends on the balance between legitimate interest and personal rights. Also this article from 2013 seems to indicate that while it was legal to film people in private at some point that already changed before the GDPR: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2040434/secretly-shooting-videos-and-photos-in-private-settings-criminalized-in-sweden.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2040434/secretly-shooting-vi...
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoYour guests and family have an expectation of privacy IMO, unless you inform them otherwise. So, I wouldn't be surprised if your general right to video record activity at home was curtailed heavily. The ECHR clause on right to private family life would certainly seem to curtail your rights (by giving rights to family/friends).
- chimen 8y agoI'm renting houses/apartments on AirBNB and place cameras outside the homes (to watch who's in front of the entrance door, activity). Placing them inside the home is a real privacy concern - a zone that I would never even consider. The reason for the cameras outside is to watch closely how many people enter as we're constantly fighting prostitution which leads to a pain with neighbors and other stuff.
- pytyper2 8y agoNo, YOU are the pain to the neighbors. You are probably ruining their family life for a few extra bucks. The neighbors are fighting prostitution, you are facilitating it!!!!
- RankingMember 8y agoOutside, sure, fine. I'm of the opinion that they should still be disclosed, but I think a camera outside (and not looking in so that it can see any interior spaces) is fair.
- jploh 8y agoWe have two properties listed on Airbnb and have been a "superhost" for half a year. Our listing has extra fees if there are more than 2 people booking and there have been a number of instances where guests would sneak in extra people. We got a security camera for one of our listings recently. It's an attached suite with a private entrance. The camera is installed outside and it's disclosed with a check box toggled in Airbnb's listing settings. Being a private person myself, I would not put a camera inside spaces meant private for guests. In these times, I'm even a bit wary on adding a CO alarm because guests might think it's a spy camera. Obviously, not everyone has the same standards. The host described in the post is quite rude. I wouldn't communicate that way with a guest. Hopefully, Airbnb will reopen the case given the attention it has received.
- camtarn 8y ago"What was I trying to hide on New Year’s Eve..." Something like this, presumably: https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/jan/07/airbnb-new-years-eve-disaster-stories-around-the-world https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/jan/07/airbnb-new-ye... It's not an excuse for the owner being an ass, or the inappropriate camera placement and lack of proper disclosure, though.
- alkonaut 8y agoWhat is appropriate camera placement in an AirBnB property? I wouldn't accept it anywhere in a hotel suite, so nowhere in an AirBnB property either. Step 1 to adapt my own apartment to be possible to AirBnB would be to remove any cameras.
- chii 8y agoDon't most hotels have cameras in the hallway? How is that different from having camera out in the property?
- alkonaut 8y agoLikely yes. I’d say that’s the same as having a camera outside the front door (the hotel room being the equivalent of the whole apartment/house, not the equivalent of a bedroom of course)
- telecuda 8y agoAfter a host made a suspicious/creepy comment about our stay, I started logging into host routers (creds usually printed on the device) and look at what other devices are connected. The camera may not be on that network, or not networked at all, but it’s a little peace of mind.
- wil421 8y agoThere is an app called Fing on iPhones and maybe Android. It will scan the WiFi you are on and give you a bunch of information. There’s also a few more network functions you can do. It recognizes phones, my plex server, and a brother printer at my house to name a few. No router login required just the WiFi password.
- morpheuskafka 8y agoAnd using Fing (works better on Android b/c on iOS it can't access raw MAC addresses) is perfectly legal. The fact that a default password is used or the password is posted on the router is not in any way legal permission to access it as a short-term guest. Look at Aaron Swartz's case if you don't know how readily prosecutors will (ab)use the CFAA.
- rhinoceraptor 8y agoSomeone who didn't know to change their default Linksys password is probably not going to report the crime.
- paulie_a 8y agoHonestly who cares if it is illegal? What are they going to do? Literally nothing would ever happen. Using default creds on a home router really isn't going to get a prosecutors interest. They would probably laugh at you after you filed a complaint.
- AlexandrB 8y ago> There is an app called Fing on iPhones and maybe Android. This seemed like a really useful tool; I looked it up on the app store and - uh oh - it's free. Screenshots don't seem to show any ads and there's no IAP, so how do they make their money? Taking a look at their privacy policy[1], they collect: > Information on MAC addresses and Wi-Fi networks you collect through the App or the Box. Please note that this Privacy Policy does not exempt you from any obligations you may incur should you collect other individuals’ personal data. So basically, Fing will help you find devices on your network, and then store what it finds forever for other uses. And if you accidentally reveal some PII to Fing while scanning someone's network that's your problem. This is the state of "apps". Collect everything, store everything, disavow any responsibility for anything. One of the first phone apps I used was a G-meter that just read the accelerometer and showed you a graph of your acceleration. It was a neat little toy. Today that app would send all accelerometer data back to some server farm in case there's anything that can be mined from that data. [1] https://www.fing.io/fing-privacy-policy/ https://www.fing.io/fing-privacy-policy/
- eric_b 8y agoI used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of the places I've found on AirBnB has gone down. The homes I stayed at before I quit using it were not very clean (despite the fee!), things were broken, key retrieval was a pain etc. Hotels used to be much more expensive, but price/quality of experience is starting to get more competitive) It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. We have dozens of taxes, rules, regulations, building codes etc now for hotels. I imagine at some point it will be the same for AirBnBs. What's old is new.
- rjf72 8y agoAn alternative here would be a meet in the middle type system where venues could opt into a private regulatory body that entailed obeying a system of rules and regulations, and accepting adjudications of the body in case of conflicts. In return, entities could advertise membership as a selling point, and the regulatory body itself could provide lists of participating entities to anybody who'd like to find, for instance, a higher quality BnB stay at. The system would be funded by entities paying a fee for participation, and perhaps also allowing membership for regular customers as which would entail various promotions and prioritization. This generally would not work for areas where there is monopolization or where the benefits would be less visible to the consumer in the normal case. what I mean by 'the normal case' is that even a shoddy building won't usually fall down, so abiding and non-abiding entities would seem more or less identical until the 0.01% scenario hits with resultant catastrophe. But things like BnBs are perfect for this model since there is major competition for consumers and transgressions against obviously desirable rules (like no cameras in the house) are not particularly uncommon. --- As an aside, the reason I mention this as a desirable option is obviously not because I think there should be any hotels that have e.g. cameras in rooms. But rather because these things never just end at a handful of very critical points. Take food safety as an example. Obviously there are a good number of basic ideas everybody would agree on such as ensuring your hands are cleaned/gloved, that food is reasonably fresh, and so on. But as regularly organizations feel obligated to continue to expand, you start ending up with ever more esoteric rules. For instance in California if your dish cleaning sink for a food stall is 9 inches deep, you're in violation of regulations. They arbitrarily require that a dish cleaning sink must be at least 10 inches deep. This gradual creep of rules poses an issue to people who are just starting a business. So obviously we all want hotels without cameras and food stalls where servers wash their hands, but on the other hand being forced to read literally hundreds of pages of legalese with countless 'gotchas' that can catch even perfectly safe and desirable products is something that can really hamper entrepreneurship, while simultaneously artificially entrenching older entities. Neither of which I think many people would think is a good thing.
- Khanhanhan 8y agoPlacing a camera inside is an outrageous violation of guests' privacy, but at least I understand why they would want to do it. However, the response from AirBnB is simply inexplicable.
- mariopepper 8y agoNot sure I would agree to that. It’s one thing when they understand what I’m doing, and it’s quite another when they’re watching it closely. I was somehow watched, or rather, by my actions. With the help of SoftActivity, the management of the company where I worked supervised my employees. At first it was very inconvenient, but later everyone got used to it, for that they gained a lot of benefits thanks to such control.
- RankingMember 8y ago> At first it was very inconvenient, but later everyone got used to it, for that they gained a lot of benefits thanks to such control. I almost want to laugh (and maybe cry)...this could've been ripped right from an early edition of 1984 or Brave New World. I can't decide which.
- mannykannot 8y ago"Will we be expected to review similarly complex documents/photos every time we enter a physical space? How can we avoid the illusion of consent that we currently have in the online world?" You could start by understanding that when you participate in an activity that is attempting to extend the online experience into the physical world, that might be exactly what you get. Caveat emptor.
- gambiting 8y agoShould have replied "Yes, I disconnected it so you wouldn't record our naked 2 year old.". Any discussion after that point surely becomes pointless.
- larrywright 8y agoThis was my first thought as well. If you’re an Airbnb host and capture video of a minor without clothes on, you could be in a world of legal trouble.
- pc86 8y agoThis is a pretty big oversimplification of the law. If you're not hiding the presence of cameras, they're not capturing private areas or those entrances directly, and you're not doing anything with that footage after the fact, it's unlikely to ever be an issue. There was an /r/legaladvice thread a few weeks ago where someone's security camera recorded a cleaning lady's 16 year old daughter changing, which certainly has the potential to be more lascivious than a 2 year old post-bath time, and the consensus was pretty unanimously that the homeowner had nothing to worry about provided they weren't archiving or keeping that footage.
- morpheuskafka 8y agoI agree with your conclusion regarding CP laws, but regarding possible invasion of privacy or similar claims, I think there is a notable difference between those cases. In the reddit case, the daughter was an unauthorized trespasser who LAOP did not permit or know would be on the property, and certainly no reason to believe would be changing in his bedroom. Here, renting a home to families, the host may have reason to believe otherwise.
- larrywright 8y agoTo be fair, I did qualify my statement with a “could”. IANAL. This likely depends on where it happens as well, and how aggressive the legal system is there. I know that I’ve heard of cases where a high school official was attempting to handle a situation where a student was distributing nude pictures of another student via their phone, and because the teacher forwarded the message to themselves so that they could show law enforcement, the teacher ended up being charged with possession of child porn. I guess all I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want to be in a position where I could inadvertently capture something like that. Maybe 90% of the time you’re fine as long as you handle it properly, but we’ve all seen situations where someone ends up in a bad situation despite having no ill intentions.
- megous 8y agoBullshit reason given by the AirBnB. How is someone renting a room qualified to determine from a photo what kind of a device is there in the corner, or even notice. It can be anything, perhaps just a motion detection sensor or air quality monitoring or whatever. Also I do not scrutinize every single photo for details, but I read the description in its entirety. These things have to be stated in writing and they should have it as a part of listed attributes for the room/house.
- arusahni 8y agoThere are also accessibility concerns/questions here. What if someone with poor (or no) eyesight is trying to book accommodation? Is there a screen-reader friendly description that says "Living room with security camera in the upper corner"?
- basil-rash 8y agoGreat point. I'd be interested to see what their response to that argument would be if it came from him pretending to have the disability. (or not even pretending)
- RankingMember 8y agoReading this made me pissed off for you. AirBnb should have clear prohibitions on cameras in living quarters, regardless of disclosure. This host behavior is wayyy out of line.
- bsenftner 8y agoAirbnb is nobody's friend except the CEO and stockholders. Have a problem, tough. File a lawsuit, now we're communicating. This is how Capitalism works.
- RankingMember 8y agoI feel like we need some sort of hub for consumers to get together and share cost of initiating legal action. When you're solo, you are indeed powerless in this system.
- chii 8y agoThat's class action lawsuits. It should be easier for consumers to make them.
- exhilaration 8y agoLawsuit? LOL, read your TOS pal, you agreed to binding arbitration.
- decebalus1 8y agoCan someone with legal experience care to chime in? I wasn't aware that binding arbitration can be enforced in this situation. I don't think you can sign your rights away like that. I recall I had a lease contract a while back which had something like that and my attorney laughed at it saying that it won't stand up in court.
- btbuildem 8y agoI guess part of the check-in procedure is now to scan the local network and set up IR blinders in private spaces. Sheesh.
- matz1 8y agoI just assume that there will be camera constantly recording when I stay in airbnb, or anywhere really. They way I never have to worry about whether it exist or not. As recording technology becoming more and more advance, it's less and less reasonable to expect privacy. I rather adapt my life to fit this new culture.
- RankingMember 8y agoI think expecting privacy will always be the reasonable approach. Giving bad actors an out because "oh well the technology's so advanced now let's just accept it" is giving creeps a pass.
- matz1 8y agoI didn't say giving bad actor an out. Just because you have information doesn't mean you are allowed to use the information to harm me. Its still illegal to do so.
- alkonaut 8y agoI'd be hesitant to have surveillance equipment or anything that could be mistaken for surveillance equipment because a review that there is a camera in any of a landlord's properties would mean I'm not renting from them, ever. I really don't care whether they use whatever is recorded in a bad way or not.
- matz1 8y agoSure, its your choice.
- throw2016 8y agoThat's because you don't really care about privacy. If it were something else 'you cared about' you would be saying something completely different and wondering why others don't share your concern. These things are generational and accumulated wisdom about privacy, surveillance and their cascading consequences into other aspects of society including sleepwalking into a police state are well known. For those on the other side of the police state or who gain from these shifts, and there are many apart from many who 'just accept', these are merely to be hand waved away, 'normalized' as 'inevitable', 'not such a bad thing' or 'accepted' with quiet resignation but perhaps those with a greater appreciation of history, evolution of human societies and the perpetual quest for freedom and democracy and what it entails can take a wider view.
- ceocoder 8y agoThere are two reasons I’ve decided to not use Airbnb again - specially when I’m overseas. 1) fear of getting locked out of Airbnb. I stayed in an Airbnb in Dublin in late 2017, place was OK, not too great -cheap ikea bed, cheap ikea couch, heater that was either tundra or Sahara. However getting in to this place required memorizing 8 digit number or having your phone on you. After that stay I genuinely appreciated 24hr staffed front desk where you can get a new key pretty much instantly. 2) a safe for your valuables (passport) and daily house keeping.
- DangerousPie 8y agoWhy not just write the number on a piece of paper?!
- pc86 8y agoBecause then they would only have one (completely valid!) criticism.
- cf498 8y agoIt is not unthinkable to loose a piece of paper. Front/Night desks exist for a reason in Hotels
- decebalus1 8y agobecause if you get mugged abroad and that piece of paper goes away along with your wallet, you are shit out of luck. A hotel can give you a lot of support in situations when you're stranded abroad. On top of granting you access to the room, they can call people on your behalf, provide a wellfare check in case you've gone missing, etc..
- ceocoder 8y agoExactly this, I do try to keep note in my wallet but mistakes happen, wallets/phones get lost/stolen. I like the safety net of having a hotel frontdesk staff that can help out in the worst case scenario. From a personal experience - I got really sick during a trip abroad and frontdesk staff sent someone to a pharmacy to pick-up medicines for me and they were willing to call doctors if needed.
- alkonaut 8y agoAirBnB should launch a surveillance/alarm product that is a combined alarm and camera, which allows the host to look at camera images when the property property is empty ONLY (i.e. when the guest has left the property and armed the alarm) It would need to have e.g. a mechanically closed lens that opens when the alarm is armed in the home (so no one is home). This product could also include other helpful things for AirBnB like a smart lock etc.
- drm237 8y agoWhy would anyone want a security camera that only worked when a property was empty? Wouldn't that defeat the point of having a security camera?
- pc86 8y agoI think the point in this example is that you can compare pre-check-in and post-check-out photos and demonstrably show damage or (visible) theft occurred during a specific reservation without impact the privacy of the guests.
- alkonaut 8y agoThe camera is on when the property is supposed to be empty, that is, when the alarm is armed and the guest is not there. The camera is for monitoring the property with a guarantee that the guests are not monitored. This is similar to how a hotel works. I expect the hotel management to be able to go in to my hotel room when I'm not there (to repair something, clean etc.) but I also expect complete privacy when I'm in there. I have cameras in my house that are used together with motion detectors as part of my home alarm system. If the alarm goes off I can see whether the alarm was triggered by my christmas tree falling over or by a burglar. They aren't used when the alarm isn't on. If I were to rent my house out on airbnb I'd probably cover or disconnect the cameras, becauuse I couldn't make a guest trust that they are only part of the alarm system. That's why a product that guaranteed it would be good.
- plusbryan 8y agoAs an AirBNB host that manages remote properties, I think a camera that operates like this could be a good solution - provided that guests understand and trust such a system. While it wouldn't prevent a guest from trashing the place, it could be a useful property protection against theft.
- bradleyjg 8y agoGiven that the entire Airbnb model involves the host, guest, and the company splitting the profit that comes from pushing externalities onto everyone else it’s hard to have sympathy for any of them. No honor among thieves and all that.
- rocqua 8y agoThe profit doesn't come solely from pushing away externalities. It also profits by tapping into more transient supply of accommodation by home-owners. That is, people who happen to own a home but aren't living there at the moment, or who are willing to share the space. This doesn't apply to people who buy houses with the intent to airbnb them, they are purely about avoiding hotel regulations.
- stunt 8y agoNever had a similar experience with Airbnb. But I switched back to Hotels and I found it way more comfortable and easier. Just good reviews and reasonable prices. Hotels are in good competition these days and you don't hear these scary stories about them.
- trumped 8y agoMaybe airbnb renters should be required to post clearly labeled snapshots of what each camera sees in their listings... a bit like this: https://i.imgur.com/Fg9R0D6.png https://i.imgur.com/Fg9R0D6.png
- baby 8y agothey should be forbidden to have cameras inside the house, period.
- clamprecht 8y agoMarket solution: Airbnb just adds a search feature: [ ] Only show properties without security cameras
- dreamcompiler 8y agoAlso, only show ones without always-on, cloud-connected listening devices.
- conanbatt 8y agoWho is going to report on the cameras there.
- baby 8y agoNo, why would any host have security cameras in the living quarters? This is a huge privacy issue.
- clamprecht 8y agoAgreed, it was kind of a "reductio ad absurdum" feature. No one would knowingly choose it, therefore, allowing cameras is absurd.
- izacus 8y agoThe fact that AirBnB even allows recording inside of the rented appartments is utterly mind-boggling to me. I always assumed they'd ban recording or guests outright. Your home (even a temporarily rented one) is pretty much the primary place where you should expect complete privacy at all times.
- plusbryan 8y agoAgreed. Even if I choose to have recording devices in my home, and then rent out on a temporary basis, it would be trivial for me to take them down before renting it out. Plus, I have the financial incentive to do so. Allowing hosts to have cameras inside the rented space, regardless of recording state, seems like a bad policy indeed. The only "legitimate" reason a host would want active cameras in the home is for protection against bad guests. This belies AirBnB's supposed "host guarantee" which should prevent this concern in the first place.
- bredren 8y agoIt doesn't make sense. This is begging to blow up. I predict it does and AirBnB bans in-home cameras with a threat of removal if found in violation. People would never put up with this in hotels. Terrible policy by AirBnB. Not the kind of news you want swarming around your profitability announcement. I can tell you which one local news is going to broadcast.
- danols 8y agoI am stunned that this is legal in the US. It would surprise me if this is legal in most countries in western Europe. Anyone?
- Tsubasachan 8y agoThis is a tough one. There are some seriously nuts and creepy people out there. If you use Airbnb with your teenage kids and somebody has hidden a camera somewhere for their own personal pleasure what can Airbnb do? Inspect every property that they list? At least with a hotel the owners usually care about their business and reputation.
- ilikehurdles 8y agoAt some point if they don’t start inspecting every property they list, then a competitor will come out with a selling point on inspections and trustworthiness.
- oh_sigh 8y agoThen the creepy owners will just add a camera after the inspection happens.
- M2Ys4U 8y agoWho would have thought that an unregulated industry would be so hostile to customers?!
- iooi 8y agoOk, people suck. Not much we can do about that. For all you know, the host is archiving footage and could use it for whatever nefarious purposes later on. What really isn't okay here is Airbnb's response. Indoor cameras should be explicitly against their policies and finding one in an apartment should immediately terminate all the listings by that host. This is where some regulation actually makes sense, and it might not be a bad idea for Airbnbs to be treated as hotels -- especially all the properties that are exclusively used for this purpose. There's tons of those in bigger cities and they're pretty obvious since the "host" will have dozens of apartments available. I will never use Airbnb again until they implement this policy, and I encourage everyone here to vocalize the same.
- dawnerd 8y agoThey'd end up having to remove like most of the listings in Orlando then. It's pretty difficult to find a nice house that doesn't have cameras. I've opted to just stay in apartment hotel suites instead - ends up being way cheaper anyways.
- yosefzeev 8y agoYeah, we had some weird experiences at an Air B and B which seemed to be part of an ongoing attack that we were experiencing at the time. You can read about all that here if you are so inclined:https://www.scribd.com/document/389212460/Antisemitism-in-Western-Kentucky https://www.scribd.com/document/389212460/Antisemitism-in-We...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- philip1209 8y agoI've lived in Airbnbs full-time for about 18 months while traveling, and Airbnb has lost my trust repeatedly in terms of reliability, safety, and user-friendliness. - Host listing quality has gone consistently downhill. Now, it's many slumlords just trying to make a quick buck rather than support the original community idea or provide a great stay. - Airbnb support response times are horribly slow. They hide their phone number, then force you to go through a ticketing system for urgent issues. Then, they start assigning you a new "case manager" every few hours as their shifts change, which means the rep never is caught up on the issue. Sometimes, they forget to transfer you to a new rep before ending their shift, which could result in zero responses for days until the rep works again. - When there is a problem, Airbnb supports the host and makes little to no effort to relocate users. For example, when our unit flooded, among other problems, the feedback was basically "well we can book you into another available unit". The problem was that it was peak Summer in Barcelona, we were there for a long period of time, and the only available units were minimum 5x the price. - We had an Airbnb burglarized. Again, we waited hours for a response, as a police forensics unit was dusting the unit for fingerprints. We suspect that the host was complicit after realizing that previous tenants were also burglarized. Airbnb's insurance policy covered none of our losses ($10K+ in electronics, jewelry, watches, clothing, etc). We ended up feeling unsafe and canceling the reservation with 3 weeks remaining. As a "courtesy", Airbnb support credited our account for less than the cost of one night at a local replacement unit. Because we accepted the credit, they considered the matter "resolved" and did nothing else. I've spent $30K+ on Airbnb. It started as a great alternative to hotels. Now, I can no longer recommend it, and I prefer a hotel.
- seesaw 8y agoI may be naive, but I never got the buzz around Airbnb. I had been a user of vrbo (vacation rentals by owner) for a long time, well before Airbnb. I continue to use vrbo, as I rarely see a better deal with Airbnb. Infact even the booking UIs look very similar.
- isostatic 8y agoI’ve booked cottages for years, my parents did it for us in the 90s, when the catalog was posted out. My understanding was Airbnb started as renting out sofas or spare rooms, but is now basically the same as cottages.com, but with more hype, and apparently far worse property owners.
- StavrosK 8y agoIs this really a camera? It looks like an infrared motion detector from the (low resolution) photo. It has an opaque bit of white plastic in the front, which makes for a terrible camera protector, but is what PIR motion detectors use.
- intrasight 8y agoIf you only stay in Airbnb "bed and breakfasts" you'll likely have none of the issues described in these comments. Plus, I like to meet my host and have them make me breakfast.
- dawhizkid 8y agoWhy would anyone believe that an Airbnb offers the same security, privacy protections, safety, and comfort of a hotel? I have only stayed in an Airbnb a few times ever because I can never justify staying in one over a hotel for these reasons. The product is so unpredictable in the sense that you really never know what you're going to get until you get there. From the host perspective, I am still amazed that Airbnb has normalized letting complete strangers into your home.
- dougb5 8y agoIt looks like Airbnb has a requirement that hosts "disclose all surveillance devices in their listings": https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-rules-about-electronic-surveillance-devices-in-listings https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-ru... How could they possibly say that the vague appearance of a camera in a photo satisfies the language of this policy?
- RootReducer 8y agoMy wife and I have done a lot of traveling over the last 5 years and usually stayed at an AirBnB. We used to have nothing but good experiences but the quality has become so inconsistent that we switched back to hotels. AirBnb is now no longer cheaper than a mid-budget hotel, and if anything goes wrong at a hotel, you can dial the front desk and get the problem resolved immediately. Plus check-in is easy and comfortable and you can often get other perks like breakfast or a gym. The last straw was a bug infested cottage in Key West. The owner wasn't responsive for hours, and finally "dealt" with the issue by giving us a vacuum and telling us that's what he uses to get rid of them.
- kawsper 8y agoThis is becoming a bigger problem lately, it is now part of my routine to de-bug Airbnbs, first by unplugging all visible cameras, then by scanning the network for other equipment, but maybe we also need to shut off the lights and look for IR noise to find hidden non-network cameras.
- chii 8y agoIt'd be interesting to see if you can purchase a wide angle, high-powered IR beam and just shutdown all cameras by overloading them.
- dev_dull 8y agoRegardless of the AirB&B fine print, I think this would likely run afoul to local and state laws against unauthorized wiretapping. I would be interested in seeing it play out in court, because that's a pretty serious crime in some states. I doubt the owner of this unit is fully aware of their liability.
- deogeo 8y agoIt makes me worried how few people noted this, how quick they are to rely on corporations instead of the law to punish bad behavior.
- amerkhalid 8y agoI never understood appeal of AirBnB. We used to travel a lot and thought AirBnB would be cheaper to equivalent hotels but it usually is about same or more expensive but with less amenities. For example: * There is no room service. You can order delivery but room service has certain charms especially at 2AM. * In hotels, you come back to a clean room at the day's end. * There is cleaning fee for many AirBnB. With hotels, you just leave a tip but no need to leave the place in perfect condition to avoid cleaning fee. * If you have any issues with your room, hotel will relocate you to new room quickly. * Concierge services, shuttle services, pools, etc are really nice to haves even if we don't use them. * You are with other travellers in hotel. Very easy to meet new people and share some experience or tips. Some of my friends get AirBnB in suburbs to save money but then they are renting cars or taking Uber everywhere which probably adds up to same price. Also when traveling I don't want to feel like I am back in 'burbs. Then, of course, we have privacy issues.
- cortesoft 8y agoI don't get it either. I get even LESS the idea of renting out your home. I hesitate to let close friends stay at my place when I am out of town. I can't IMAGINE letting strangers stay.
- afterburner 8y agoInvestment properties.
- paulie_a 8y agoYou hesitate at close friends staying at your place? They probably are not that close of friends. I'd toss the keys to plenty of relatively close friends with a "hey make sure the cat doesn't sneak out, he's a bastard like that. Have a good weekend, feel free to raid the fridge"
- cortesoft 8y agoWe probably just have different views of personal space. I don't like people in my private spaces; it is hard enough when I am there, and even worse when I am not. It isn't about closeness to the person; I wouldn't be super comfortable with my best friend, my family, doesn't matter.
- gwbas1c 8y ago> I looked at the home guide again, and it did say that there were cameras “at the entrance,” which these cameras clearly were not. I contacted AirBnB about it, and long story short they said the single photo above was proper disclosure of both cameras. > A lot of other weird stuff happened during this trip stemming from this -- AirBnB told my host we asked about the cameras, he sent someone to snoop on us, he left us a bad review, etc. My favorite has to be when my host discovered that I had unplugged the cameras, he wrote: This is why I prefer established hotels and Yelp. It's much easier to deal with professional management instead of someone trying to make a quick buck on the side.
- 1024core 8y agoI'll add my AirBnB anecdote. We were in Hawaii. We checked into the AirBnB, and the first thing my wife noticed was that there were crumbs of food all along the walls of the kitchen. She murmured something about this not being good and attracting bugs. We turn off the lights, and a few minutes later she jumped up, claiming there was something on her. We turned on the lights, and saw nothing. I brushed it off. A few minutes later it happened again. Same deal. Then a few minutes later it happened to me. I turned on the lights, and happened to look at the roof, and there were 2 large cockroaches on the roof, right above us! Yikes! Then I stepped out, and on the kitchen floor I saw a few of them scurrying about. So I called up AirBnB at 2AM. They asked me for photos, video, etc. After a couple of hours of back and forth, they agreed to let us leave. They let us book another place. But then they proceeded to cancel our original reservation, so I could not leave feedback! The host contacted me, and when I told her why we left, pretended as if nothing was wrong about 3-inch long cockroaches running around all over the place. AirBnB never reprimanded her.
- ilamont 8y agoAirBnB never reprimanded her. I think that's what bothers a lot of guests who have an experience so bad they have to leave. Is there any penalty for lying in a description or putting guests at the risk of their own safety?
- bredren 8y agoFWIW, humid climates have roaches. They are not unusual.
- hadlock 8y agoCockroaches in a residence in Hawaii is not uncommon, you are after-all, in a tropical rainforest. I have come to expect them in the rainforest/jungle housing. It is inevitable. The houses in these areas are often not well sealed due to local construction quality and/or the need to vent humidity. That said, the crumbs of food can/will exacerbate the problem and probably should have been kept to a higher standard of cleanliness.
- dcosson 8y ago> pretended as if nothing was wrong about 3-inch long cockroaches running around all over the place. To be fair it actually is pretty common to see 3 inch cockroaches running around in Hawaii and other tropical places, even in reasonably nice/clean houses. Especially in older houses that might not be insulated or sealed very well (given the weather there's not much need to insulate for heat purposes). Granted, keeping things clean and making an effort to get rid of bugs when you do see them will obviously make things better, and it sounds like this host was probably more neglectful than they should have been. This is honestly a really interesting example though - a lot of people's stated reason for liking AirBnB is being in a more authentic, local environment. But then when you have different expectations about the conditions than a local person living in that house might have, it becomes a bad experience that AirBnB should solve. Where should the line be? If you want them to standardize things and make sure all listings are comfortable for the widest range of people possible, doesn't that just end up looking exactly like a hotel?
- mancerayder 8y agoWhen you read about the litany of issues that guests have, as evidenced here in these comments, does anyone have better experience with competitors like HomeAway? If not it's a gap in the market. For example, for delivery services in the States you have Seamless, which is like an AirBNB or Uber for restaurants for delivery (I think only recently Seamless offers delivery people, but before it was the restaurants that have to provide). But there's now Caviar, which a) provides excellent customer-first customer service b) curates the restaurants carefully c) provides their own drivers with meticulous tracking and of course, the kicker d) costs more. I would pay for better customer service and proper curation. Yes, even if it costs the same or MORE than a hotel, I prefer to stay in an apartment when I travel. I've definitely had a few surprises in AirBNB, but I've had a lot of delightful stays too with top-notch customer service provided by the host. But it's a crapshoot! I'll pay more for it not to be a crapshoot. The ratings system is a joke in my experience. Fine, take away the ratings and let me pay you more, future Silicon Valley company, for your people to verify the apartment meets standards and to be available on the phone 24/7 with onshore staff. I'll pay.
- resters 8y agoThis blog post is not true and not fair. Airbnb specifies that there must be textual disclosure of any cameras, and there is a section on the listing page that shows them. It's also very rare for a security system to include indoor cameras. My own uses motion detectors to provide information about climate control and lighting needs, but absolutely no interior cameras. It's not clear to me that the object in the picture is a camera. If it is, I do think the host should rethink having cameras in a bedroom, but if that's what it takes for him/her to feel comfortable renting out the home, then as long as it's disclosed clearly, then it's OK.
- timc3 8y agoI don’t think its rare at all if its a managed security system. Ours came with cameras that are only on when the alarm is on.
- plusbryan 8y agoWhen you stay at a hotel, you are definitely being recorded in hallways and most public areas. AirBNB should modify their policy to allow hosts to have recording devices outside their home (public spaces), but blanket ban any recording devices inside (off or on). Significant fines/banning would result from discovery. This policy would not deter legitimate hosts, while significantly reducing the likelihood of a PR disaster involving serendipitous recording. This "as long as it is disclosed" policy invites grey areas like described in this post.
- plusbryan 8y agoTo add some background to the discussion: As a host, you are asked to check a box entitled "Surveillance or recording devices on property". If you check it, it asks you to "Describe any device that records or sends video, audio, or still images. Specify each device’s location and whether it will be on or off." As this is a text box, it is up to the host to accurately describe things like location of device, viewable area, on/off/recording status, and if there is a microphone. There is also no structured way to specify if the recording device is posted outside (ie a driveway, facing away from the property for security) vs inside the rented space. Finally, they link hosts to their policy here, which specifies (among other things) that cameras that record guests are fine if disclosed, provided they aren't in bedrooms or bathrooms: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-rules-about-electronic-surveillance-devices-in-listings https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-ru...
- arthurofbabylon 8y agoMany of the complaints of mistreatment illustrate a feature of this housing marketplace: big capital assets are in control, not the demand. This runs counter to many other marketplaces millennials (+- 10 years) are used to. Shoes? Chocolate? Restaurants? Types of alcohol? Transportation? Whatever the customer wants, the customer gets. It’s a simple reality that Airbnb will align with the host who brings in $10-30k/yr over even the frequent traveler who spends $1-10k. I’m super interested in understanding how this might bite Airbnb or open opportunities for competitors. I’m very curious about these huge economic, behavioral shifts and what they mean for the quality of a product/service and how these services align with humanity’s best interests.
- bredren 8y agoReasonably, AirBnB has already served its purpose. It has bludgeoned the hospitality industry forcing it to be more competitive. [1] There is real opportunity for hotels to earn back customers and they should get this chance. Due to hotel architecture they do not have the same problems as one-off airbnb units in neighborhoods. So they should reasonably consider offering greater privacy and reliability. That said, the Marriott hack did not do them any favors. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2018/02/27/the-airbnb-effect-cheaper-rooms-for-travelers-less-revenue-for-hotels/#35db2e9ad672 https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2018/02/27/...
- chii 8y agoHotels can't operate at the slim margin that would allow them to compete with airbnn, otherwise, they would already have. Vast majority of customers choose on price, and hotels offering privacy just doesn't seem like it'd be a selling point, esp. if the feature is assumed default already.
- bredren 8y agoEnough more stories like this and the anecdotal testimony ITT becoming mainstream opinion might suggest otherwise.
- John_KZ 8y agoI recently tried to book over AirBnB just for the convenience of it. They requested government id and a new photo of me for verification. They also (indirectly and insidiously) asked for my permissions so sell all my personal data listed in the ID (biometrics, height, skin colour, ID number etc). Of course you'd have to read the privacy policy to know this, and many people don't. Also their facebook login asked for a list of all my friends as well as all my likes. What the hell does that have anything to do with them? I just booked off their platform. It was easier and cheaper, and definitely more private. I also wouldn't recommend anyone to get vendor-locked so hard as to have their livelihood depended on this company's policies.
- distant_hat 8y agoI've used Airbnbs in the past and some were great but now I'd only use one if no hotel is available. Recently I traveled to Thailand in the peak season and no hotel had the full block of dates available that I was looking at. Stayed at an Airbnb served by some Russian dude. We reach there and he wants a 3000 Baht "deposit", says it is standard. Couldn't argue with it, he agreed to take a USD100 bill instead. Instead of a receipt he took a photo of me standing with the USD100 bill and sent it to me :). Returned it back without a fuss but it was an odd experience.
- iabacu 8y agoWhen I interviewed at Airbnb, they asked me about one thing I learned in the past that could be useful for Airbnb. I suggested that people who are developing the product should once in a while spend a few hours handling user tickets themselves (perhaps shadowing an actual customer representative), so that developers get to sense (at the gut level) the pain points. The interviewer did not seemed pleased with that suggestion.
- fizwhiz 8y agoWhat role were you interviewing for? Also, did they offer you the job?
- iabacu 8y agoIt was a software engineer role. I did get an offer but in the end I didn’t take it.
- zemo 8y agodunno if they still do it, but this was normal practice at Etsy when I was an engineer there (2013-2015). Every so often (once a quarter maybe?) I had to spend a day answering support tickets. We discovered (and fixed) a lot of bugs that way.
- Klathmon 8y agoAs a lead developer on some projects, I've explicitly asked to jump into the weeds and handle support. You can learn SO MUCH about your application just by handling a bit of support. You learn UX issues, you learn what tooling the support people are missing that would allow them to do their job (a simple "send a screenshot to support" button in our app saved our support reps HOURS spending time trying to get customers to describe the problem or teaching them how to take a screenshot on their device). Not only that, but often the easiest wins are those where you make a happy customer even happier. I saw one customer one time that did this like 10 step process to get some information from the app. They would switch to one user, go to a specific page, open it in a new tab and leave it there, then logout and login to another account, go to their overview page, and then bring the 2 tabs side-by-side to compare numbers. We already had support for "manager" style accounts that could view info on multiple people, but it didn't have the information they were looking for. A few hours later I had a POC up on our staging system with the information they needed right there, and that person I was talking to became almost an evangelist for our software at their company. Just knowing that they had a problem in the first place was key, and the fix took me a few hours, but it saved them probably that much per week.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- pingec 8y agoHere is my unpleasant story from 2 weeks ago when I was in Bali. I had booked an apartment but the host was not replying to any of my messages/sms/calls. Fearing something was fishy I opened an Airbnb support ticket 3 days before my the checkin date. In those 3 days Airbnb support did not reply to me at all. It was a shitty feeling, I wanted to book another place but I had already paid for this one. 1 day before checkin, the host replied with a short message that I could checkin next day, he didn't address any of my questions nor any of my follow-up messages. Next day I go to the specified address of the villa and call the host, the host picks up this time but tells me that the address on Airbnb is wrong and sends me to another location. I go to the second location, the building does not look anything like the one in the photos, there is nobody there and I cannot get inside, the neighbour shouts that the building is empty because the lease contract has expired a month ago. it starts raining and I am standing there on the street with all my baggage and it starts to rain. I call the host, now really angry and he starts apologising that he is not even the landlord but just a guy from another country (India) and he does not know much about the booked property then he stops responding. At this point I submit to the reality that this listing is some sort of scam and start looking for ways to contact Airbnb over phone to get urgent help since I have nowhere to go. The Airbnb website is useless, cannot find any phone numbers to call. Finally I google and read on some forum, that there is no phone number for Airbnb in Indonesia and that I need to make a call to a US number. I make the call and they are very helpful. They tell me they will try to contact the host in the next 30 minutes and that I should look for other suitable listings. After 30 minutes they contact me again and they agree to cancel my previous booking so that I can book something else. I end up booking something which was is in the same price range but much lower standard (not much choice when doing same-day booking). I talked to Airbnb support for 7 minutes in total and that cost me 28 EUR. Airbnb later agreed to refund me the 28 EUR for the phone calls. After this experiece I am more keen on using booking.com again, have not had any such bad experience with them yet.
- danols 8y agoHow many reviews did the place you booked have?
- 8y ago
- Teknoman117 8y agoEvery AirBnB I've been at in the last two years has had internal cameras...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- oskkejdjdkjd 8y agoAny implementation of sharing living quarters with other people has too many problems. People nowadays don’t understand what it means to be clean. Back wen cleanliness was up to you and of great practical importance, people were aware of beg bugs, Scabies, fleas, dust mites and the such like. Bed bugs are disgusting and when you stay in a hotel of any kind you risk picking them up. Their eggs stick to you, your luggage, everything and you trail them everywhere you go, including your own house. I just don’t understand why people want to sleep in bug infested cum stained shit hole shared rooms. I sleep in my car instead and while it’s not as nice as a room, it’s a lot better than sharing.
- therealx 8y agoOver worried a bit much, no? A large majority of people staying in any given shared living place do not get bed bugs. Plus staying in your car doesn't really fly when you have a family or take an airplane and have no car.
- oskkejdjdkjd 8y agoYeah. I still massively prefer carrying my own space with me if possible. But actually I think hotels could be an option even for people like me. If rooms were properly constructed then they wouldn’t be able to harbor any parasites at all and it would be possible to clean them thouroughly and properly between guests. If I were to start a hotel, I would make public the methods of cleaning and then offer some kind of verification for each guest. Like the receipt checklist you get on a ups, your room would come with some kind of receipt of cleaning. Mattresses would be sealed in plastic. All cloth goods like sheets and curtains would be autoclaved and come with proof of having been so. I honestly think hotels focus way too much on making rooms look homey and warm. Give me a small barren room that’s 100 percent guaranteed to be clean.
- mmckelvy 8y agoI think the cracks in "break the rules" startups such as Uber, Airbnb, Tesla, etc. are starting to show. However, I think these companies have surfaced some interesting product ideas with accompanying demand. More established players might be able to adjust the business model a bit and make things more sustainable. Ultimately we may not be staying at Airbnbs and driving Teslas, but maybe we'll be staying at some sort of Marriott "Experiences" boutique and driving electric cars from GM.
- andrewstuart 8y agoIt's a pretty big opening for the hotel industry to be able to fight back against AirBNB by saying "stay at a hotel, it's safe, you won't be robbed, given a bad review, or spied on by hidden cameras".
- jedberg 8y agoI just looked this up so I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell there are no regulations at the federal level or the state level that prevent hotels from having cameras in the room. There are 12 states with laws that prevent you from recording someone without their knowledge, which would apply to both hotels and AirBnBs, and anyone else. So really, the only reason hotels are "safer" in this regard is because they seem to be more concerned with protecting their reputation.
- mynegation 8y agoI actually prefer the hotels to Airbnbs. If price difference is not drastic - hotel. If employer pays - most definitely the hotel! I prefer to have maybe cookie-cutter but more or less reliable set of things and services available and not figure out what to find where, what to do, what not to do, read the goddamn house rules, look for the key under the rug, text some random people where are they with the key, do you have parking, do you not, etc.
- somada141 8y agoI'm about to embark on a nomadic trip so I will be depending on AirBnBs and hotels a lot. Can I just ask: If the host has not disclosed security/surveillance but such equipment is present am I allowed to run de-auth attacks against the cameras so I can 'disable' them temporarily?
- jononor 8y agoLet the owner know via AirBnB that they need to disclose it. Then just put a piece of tape over it. Why make it more complicated than need be...
- somada141 8y agoYou have a point :D. But I would expect AirBnB owners to lie about it and me being unable to find it when it's hidden in a plant or something. I was mostly curious about any legal ramifications that would come up if I decided to take my privacy in my own hands.
- paulie_a 8y agoNo you just throw them in the kitchen sink and run water over them.
- somada141 8y agoThat might be misconstrued as property damage :D
- fabioma 8y agoI had been having great experiences until I got this place in NYC that when I just got in, the host started sending me messages on I could and couldn't do. He told me to get rid of the shoes because I was hurting the floor, that I shouldn't leave heavy stuff on the sofa because it was brand new (my bag was on it). For a moment I thought that maybe he told this to everyone and then I found the camera. It was a 1 bedroom so the camera gave him a full view of the whole apartment. I covered the camera and decided not to communicate Airbnb because it was only for a week and I would be barely in the apartment during the day (it's NYC!). He gave me a great review but I decided to go back to hotels ever since.
- brbrodude 8y agoNow this is just fucked up :p
- projectileboy 8y agoI still love Airbnb, but I have the same feeling that I’ve always had about it and Uber and Lyft and every other sharing economy disruptor - the existing industries had evolved the way they had for reasons, and the associated regulatory structures around them also evolved for reasons. After you have enough thefts and rapes and murders and property destructions over enough years, Airbnb will necessarily look a lot like a hotel chain, and Uber will look a lot like a traditional taxi company, and so on and so on.
- dannyr 8y agoCameras is Airbnb seem to be more and more common. I know people who would suddenly get messages from their hosts like "why did you let somebody not registered in". It's creepy since the hosts did not disclose that there are cameras.
- dbg31415 8y agoMy biggest gripe is that the cleanliness has gone way down. It used to be, a few years back, AirBnB would make sure everything was immaculate. I remember a host letting me in to her house and being embarrassed that there were garbage bins out front since it was garbage day. Everything was laundered, sheets were bleached and crisp, everything was on-par with a 5-star hotel. For whatever reason, now when I stay in AirBnBs it's next to impossible to find a place that has that level of detail. Supply and demand, I guess. More people doing it, pressure to lower price, less money for cleaning, less money for quality linens. Sure... I get it. But it's turned me off AirBnB. The last place I stayed in had dirty towels. Like they didn't even bother to put clean towels up, they were damp when we showed up and had someone's makeup on them. Was gross. I wrote in to complain, and used the dirty towel to wipe the floor and counter to show that those weren't clean either. The towels were sort of grey, and came off the floor just black. And you know what I got? Billed for damaging a towel, they said that because I used their towel to wipe off their floor that it stained the towel. Likely wasn't good for the towel, but come on... the place was filthy. AirBnB needs a "white glove" service -- and I'd be willing to pay extra for this -- to ensure that everything is on-par with a nice hotel.
- spookthesunset 8y ago> AirBnB needs a "white glove" service -- and I'd be willing to pay extra for this -- to ensure that everything is on-par with a nice hotel. Getting a set of clean towels isn't what I would consider "white glove" service. It seems more like "basic level of service".
- dillondoyle 8y agoI just had an absolutely horrible experience with Airbnb & Airbnb 'support.' So bad in fact I'm exploring my options to go to arbitration though that's mostly an emotional reaction since I'm fairly sure it would be a waste of time. I've gone from spending months a year in AirBnbs to now planning to never use the service ever again. Airbnb used to be almost magical but the last three bookings I had have been progressively more horrendous and support is maddening. I'd be happy to share my recent experiences but I don't have any social clout to attempt to get anything out of it :(
- rbreve 8y agoI have used around 20 airbnbs and had no problems, some are better than others, I have also used hotels and hostels, with problems, like bedbugs, noise etc... For a cheapest and more local experience AirBnB is awesome, just find a good place with good reviews
- mlindner 8y agoIt's almost like... you get what you pay for. If you don't want weird stuff happening, don't skimp on price and go for an actual hotel.
- paulie_a 8y agoI've had varying Airbnb experience but always positive. A couple were just cheapo rooms to lay my head. The best was on a private vineyard, the house rules said no one in the hot tub after ten. We asked if it could be 11-11:30 and we will be respectful of noise. "Sure no problem". The hosts cooked us breakfast and we chatted over coffee. They were the perfect balance of leaving us alone and engaging. Even gave us a really cool tour of the property before we left. They had no complaints about us, we wrote a glowing review. A couple weeks later we got a small gift in the mail.
- baobabKoodaa 8y agoI'm astounded by the number of people here insinuating that the hotel industry is any better. I realize I've probably been lucky with my AirBnb visits and unlucky with my hotel visits, but still... Several times I've ran into hotels which advertise AC, but when you get there you realize it's impossible to get acceptable room temperature. When you contact the front desk, they simply tell you that during [this time of year] the entire AC system of the hotel has been set to [heat/cool] and we can not set an individual room to [cool/heat] even if it is 27C inside the room. One time there was a sewage smell coming from the bathroom strong enough to be sensed in the bedroom. The front desk again did nothing to alleviate the problem, going as far as lying that they are unable to move us to another room because all the rooms are booked (despite us seeing very few guests in the hallways, indicating the hotel was mostly empty at the time). Another time the hotel staff badgered us for extra money throughout our stay despite that the hole stay was paid for in advance. They claimed that we had "erroneously" been given too low of a rate ($200/night for a small room in Milan) because we had used a "bad agent" (a booking site they apparently disliked, yet chose to work with anyway). They had knowledge of our booking for a long time, and instead of contacting us before our trip, they badger us for additional payments after we arrive? These are not really isolated incidents. The majority of the time I visit a hotel, something is wrong to the extent that I never want to visit that particular hotel again. In contrast 100% of my AirBnb experiences have been good so far.
- JamesAdir 8y agoI'm reading this thread comment by comment and it just reminds me of the PayPal stories right before Stripe entered the industry. It seems that the market is ready for a new competitor.
- chauzer 8y agoJust to add another +1 on the poor AirBnb customer support... I rented out my place on AirBnb for 3 weeks and it took nearly a month before I received my payment from AirBnb. I filed a support ticket with AirBnb and the support person was extremely slow in responding, sometimes taking 2-3 days for a response. I had to tweet at AirBnb publicly and post on their public FB page to get responses. I looked up the AirBnb customer support rep on LinkedIn and looked like AirBnb has a good amount of their customer support staff abroad in Asia. Their support team told me it was an issue on their end but wouldn't go into details. It was obviously an issue when i went to the billing section on AirBnb and saw 500 errors when using Chrome's debugger to see the traffic. I was close to just tweeting at AirBnb Engineering to offer some help to fix their bug when I hadn't been paid thousands of dollars for putting my home on AirBnb for a month. It finally got resolved and I got a couple hundred dollars in AirBnb credit for my troubles.