15 ms·

Google’s Fuchsia OS Confirmed to Have Android App Support via Android Runtime

198 points by AlexeyBrin 8y ago

RubenSandwich 8y ago
This makes perfect sense, it would be naive to think that Flutter would be the only way to write apps for Fuchsia. Having such a hard break in compatibility would only succeed is tanking the new platform for consumers.
- fredgrott 8y ago
  fuchsia apps use a different runtime ie part of the runtime ie the rendering part is in flutter in plain sight from the web demos I have seen of fuchsia running flutter its the same UX as android ..different apis that's all and way faster rending pipeline via flutter rendering engine
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Actually Fuchsia is getting an UI abstraction layer for multiple UI engines, where Flutter is just yet another UI. Guess what will happen afterwards.
    - neolefty 8y ago
      What will happen afterwards? Will it become the only UI?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Here is Scenic, the UI agnostic scene graphic composition engine. https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/master/docs/ui/scenic.md https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/master/docs/ui/sce... Here is fuchsia-ui, an UI prototype done in Rust, remains to be seen if it really only meant for the Ermine session shell. https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/0a214f5721d723a7d0757531d157f76bb54b9f95/public/rust/fuchsia-ui https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/0a214f5721d723a7d0... I bet Flutter will either be yet another UI framework and then the one with market adoption wins, or it will be rebooted somehow.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
matthewaveryusa 8y ago
Is there any indication on how important/significant Dart will be to Fuchsia? I really like Dart, I think it's a fantastic interpreted language, but it has very little momentum because javascript es6 is good enough. If Fuchsia makes Dart its darling (with flutter?) perhaps the tides can turn?
- levosmetalo 8y ago
  I guess if Google want Fuchsia / Flutter to really take off, they will have to port Flutter to Javascript. One may or may not like Dart as a language, but if it didn't get any ground in some many years since it exists, why would it all of a sudden.
  - allenbrunson 8y ago
    > I guess if Google want Fuchsia / Flutter to really take off, they will have to port Flutter to Javascript. just like that time when iOS was suddenly hot, but there were no apps for it, because programmers hated Objective-C and weren't willing to learn it. So Apple released a new SDK and toolchain that allowed them to write apps in C++ instead. oh wait. Okay, all snark aside. Come on, guys. Isn't the fact that high tech is always new and innovative considered to be a good thing? So why is there always so much pressure to insist that every new thing has to be exactly like all the old things? Learning Dart is not difficult. I did it myself, without even trying. I just pretended I already knew it, by following examples I found online. After a couple of weeks, my pretend-knowing turned into real-knowing.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Thing is, Objective-C was the official language on iOS, and yes they did release C++ support, it is called Objective-C++ and exists since NeXTSTEP days. Dart is just a programming language trying to get its killer app, which was dropped by Chrome team and gets political answers from Android team.
      - allenbrunson 8y ago
AJ007 8y ago
Does anyone else have a suspicion that Google is about to completely screw this up?
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  If they do I really hope the Surface Phone comes out or something. I don't want to be forced to iOS, but I wouldn't be too mad if I had it.
  - Zigurd 8y ago
    You can already experience non-Andorid Android in the form of a Pixel Slate.
    - enos_feedler 8y ago
      Including the pixelbook and many other ChromeOS devices
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Windows Phone used to be a thing. Quite a good base UI but a shortage of apps, because it couldn't run Android apps.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      I still have a Windows Phone at home that can sideload Android apps. Was pretty awesome. Android apps seemed slow in comparison to UWP apps, but ran more or less as well as they ran on Androids.
    - giancarlostoro 8y ago
      It wasn't the lack of apps that held me from buying one, it was that they never advertised one or had enough Windows Phones available on my carrier with good battery life. I'm sure they had amazing battery life but they didn't advertise it well enough if they did.
    - 8y ago
Zigurd 8y ago
ChromeOS already has an Android runtime. There's no reason an Android runtime couldn't be portable. There's no reason Android apps could not, if using the APIs appropriately, adapt to all the different devices and other parameters of an Android runtime that's implemented on a variety of OSs. As long as their apps work, users won't care.
- servercobra 8y ago
  That's a big if on whether apps work or not though. It's already a pretty big hassle to design/test for the permutations that exist (with or without Play services, testing on ChromeOS, etc) compared to iOS development.
  - Zigurd 8y ago
    Since very early versions of Android, APIs existed for determining the characteristics of the hardware/software environment: What sensors exist, input methods, etc. If your app works on tablets and phones and handles orientation changes correctly, it will probably work in a window on a Fuchsia OS device.
  - izacus 8y ago
    It's about as much of a hassle than developing desktop app and less of a hassle than developing web apps. Meaning: really not that much of a hassle unless you're deliberately shooting yourself in a foot by doing equivalent of "position: absolute;" everywhere. Which, for some reason, some iOS developers really loved doing which cause endless headaches when adding support to yet another form factor of those devices and endless "fragmentation" complaints.
- glenrivard 8y ago
  Big difference is Android on ChromeOS is using the Linux kernel that is part of ChromeOS. Here Android will be on top of Zircon. Which is the fuchsia kernel. Now gnu/linux on ChromeOS is using a completely different Linux kernel. It was important Google did it this way so gnu/Linux would still work when they update ChromeOS to Fuchsia. Google already has Gnu/linux running on fuchsia with something called Machina.
skybrian 8y ago
It's interesting how the trend in newer OSes seems to be towards client apps running in some sort of VM. Windows runs Linux. Some Chromebooks run both Linux and Android. I wonder if we'll get to the point where hardly anything is a native app and the concept doesn't matter much anymore? The host OS just exists to run guest OSes.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  > I wonder if we'll get to the point where hardly anything is a native app and the concept doesn't matter much anymore? You mean a web browser? We're there.
- ofrzeta 8y ago
  I've been waiting for this more than 20 years :) http://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/ http://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/ Now we are finally there.
- glennpratt 8y ago
  ChromeOS and Android are Linux. Android compatibility comes from a container. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/master/arc/container-bundle/README.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/mas...
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Having Linux kernel is pretty transparent for app developers. They don't care which kernel powers Chrome processes, or ART. On Android's case, Linux syscalls aren't even part of the official stable APIs. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      But it does mean a Chrome OS device can run Linux software without a full-on Virtual Machine, since the underlying kernel is the same.
solarkraft 8y ago
This is not super surprising. Google OSes may come and go, but they will put the Android Runtime on all of them.
returnInfinity 8y ago
Its Microsoft all over again
- jfoutz 8y ago
  microsoft in the 90's would relentlessly execute. Word and excel spring to mind, but really hundreds of little software shops woke up to discover their product was now a windows or office feature. Think instagram eating snap, but for lots and lots of products.
guelo 8y ago
I'm not really excited about Google dumping linux for something they have more control of. It will make it harder to create device drivers and utilities. And lead to an even more closed google-controled ecosystem than the current Android world.
- segmondy 8y ago
  Yup, that's exactly the plan.
thrillgore 8y ago
I get the feeling what started as a measure to keep staff has now turned into the perfect way to replace the Linux kernel for a lot of Google components.
sea_horse 8y ago
yet another data mining OS.
benguild 8y ago
Is Fuchsia only going to run on Google hardware, like iOS? All third-party manufacturers will be stuck with just legacy Android, and Google will have a contender to iOS.
- bunnycorn 8y ago
  Considering it's going to be open source, it would be strange to be proprietary.
zapzupnz 8y ago
My wondering out loud: is the Android Runtime in Fuschia supposed to be Google's Blue Box or Red Box? Classic or Carbon?
lastrosade 8y ago
They were so close to having a .fart file extension

198 points by AlexeyBrin 8y ago

This makes perfect sense, it would be naive to think that Flutter would be the only way to write apps for Fuchsia. Having such a hard break in compatibility would only succeed is tanking the new platform for consumers.

fredgrott 8y ago
fuchsia apps use a different runtime ie part of the runtime ie the rendering part is in flutter in plain sight from the web demos I have seen of fuchsia running flutter its the same UX as android ..different apis that's all and way faster rending pipeline via flutter rendering engine
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Actually Fuchsia is getting an UI abstraction layer for multiple UI engines, where Flutter is just yet another UI. Guess what will happen afterwards.
  - neolefty 8y ago
    What will happen afterwards? Will it become the only UI?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Here is Scenic, the UI agnostic scene graphic composition engine. https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/master/docs/ui/scenic.md https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/master/docs/ui/sce... Here is fuchsia-ui, an UI prototype done in Rust, remains to be seen if it really only meant for the Ermine session shell. https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/0a214f5721d723a7d0757531d157f76bb54b9f95/public/rust/fuchsia-ui https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/garnet/+/0a214f5721d723a7d0... I bet Flutter will either be yet another UI framework and then the one with market adoption wins, or it will be rebooted somehow.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

matthewaveryusa 8y ago

Is there any indication on how important/significant Dart will be to Fuchsia? I really like Dart, I think it's a fantastic interpreted language, but it has very little momentum because javascript es6 is good enough. If Fuchsia makes Dart its darling (with flutter?) perhaps the tides can turn?

levosmetalo 8y ago
I guess if Google want Fuchsia / Flutter to really take off, they will have to port Flutter to Javascript. One may or may not like Dart as a language, but if it didn't get any ground in some many years since it exists, why would it all of a sudden.
- allenbrunson 8y ago
  > I guess if Google want Fuchsia / Flutter to really take off, they will have to port Flutter to Javascript. just like that time when iOS was suddenly hot, but there were no apps for it, because programmers hated Objective-C and weren't willing to learn it. So Apple released a new SDK and toolchain that allowed them to write apps in C++ instead. oh wait. Okay, all snark aside. Come on, guys. Isn't the fact that high tech is always new and innovative considered to be a good thing? So why is there always so much pressure to insist that every new thing has to be exactly like all the old things? Learning Dart is not difficult. I did it myself, without even trying. I just pretended I already knew it, by following examples I found online. After a couple of weeks, my pretend-knowing turned into real-knowing.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Thing is, Objective-C was the official language on iOS, and yes they did release C++ support, it is called Objective-C++ and exists since NeXTSTEP days. Dart is just a programming language trying to get its killer app, which was dropped by Chrome team and gets political answers from Android team.
    - allenbrunson 8y ago

AJ007 8y ago

Does anyone else have a suspicion that Google is about to completely screw this up?

giancarlostoro 8y ago
If they do I really hope the Surface Phone comes out or something. I don't want to be forced to iOS, but I wouldn't be too mad if I had it.
- Zigurd 8y ago
  You can already experience non-Andorid Android in the form of a Pixel Slate.
  - enos_feedler 8y ago
    Including the pixelbook and many other ChromeOS devices
- pjc50 8y ago
  Windows Phone used to be a thing. Quite a good base UI but a shortage of apps, because it couldn't run Android apps.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    I still have a Windows Phone at home that can sideload Android apps. Was pretty awesome. Android apps seemed slow in comparison to UWP apps, but ran more or less as well as they ran on Androids.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    It wasn't the lack of apps that held me from buying one, it was that they never advertised one or had enough Windows Phones available on my carrier with good battery life. I'm sure they had amazing battery life but they didn't advertise it well enough if they did.
  - 8y ago

Zigurd 8y ago

ChromeOS already has an Android runtime. There's no reason an Android runtime couldn't be portable. There's no reason Android apps could not, if using the APIs appropriately, adapt to all the different devices and other parameters of an Android runtime that's implemented on a variety of OSs. As long as their apps work, users won't care.

servercobra 8y ago
That's a big if on whether apps work or not though. It's already a pretty big hassle to design/test for the permutations that exist (with or without Play services, testing on ChromeOS, etc) compared to iOS development.
- Zigurd 8y ago
  Since very early versions of Android, APIs existed for determining the characteristics of the hardware/software environment: What sensors exist, input methods, etc. If your app works on tablets and phones and handles orientation changes correctly, it will probably work in a window on a Fuchsia OS device.
- izacus 8y ago
  It's about as much of a hassle than developing desktop app and less of a hassle than developing web apps. Meaning: really not that much of a hassle unless you're deliberately shooting yourself in a foot by doing equivalent of "position: absolute;" everywhere. Which, for some reason, some iOS developers really loved doing which cause endless headaches when adding support to yet another form factor of those devices and endless "fragmentation" complaints.
glenrivard 8y ago
Big difference is Android on ChromeOS is using the Linux kernel that is part of ChromeOS. Here Android will be on top of Zircon. Which is the fuchsia kernel. Now gnu/linux on ChromeOS is using a completely different Linux kernel. It was important Google did it this way so gnu/Linux would still work when they update ChromeOS to Fuchsia. Google already has Gnu/linux running on fuchsia with something called Machina.

skybrian 8y ago

It's interesting how the trend in newer OSes seems to be towards client apps running in some sort of VM. Windows runs Linux. Some Chromebooks run both Linux and Android. I wonder if we'll get to the point where hardly anything is a native app and the concept doesn't matter much anymore? The host OS just exists to run guest OSes.

Someone1234 8y ago
> I wonder if we'll get to the point where hardly anything is a native app and the concept doesn't matter much anymore? You mean a web browser? We're there.
ofrzeta 8y ago
I've been waiting for this more than 20 years :) http://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/ http://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/ Now we are finally there.
glennpratt 8y ago
ChromeOS and Android are Linux. Android compatibility comes from a container. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/master/arc/container-bundle/README.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/mas...
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Having Linux kernel is pretty transparent for app developers. They don't care which kernel powers Chrome processes, or ART. On Android's case, Linux syscalls aren't even part of the official stable APIs. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    But it does mean a Chrome OS device can run Linux software without a full-on Virtual Machine, since the underlying kernel is the same.

solarkraft 8y ago

This is not super surprising. Google OSes may come and go, but they will put the Android Runtime on all of them.

returnInfinity 8y ago

Its Microsoft all over again

jfoutz 8y ago
microsoft in the 90's would relentlessly execute. Word and excel spring to mind, but really hundreds of little software shops woke up to discover their product was now a windows or office feature. Think instagram eating snap, but for lots and lots of products.

guelo 8y ago

I'm not really excited about Google dumping linux for something they have more control of. It will make it harder to create device drivers and utilities. And lead to an even more closed google-controled ecosystem than the current Android world.

segmondy 8y ago
Yup, that's exactly the plan.

thrillgore 8y ago

I get the feeling what started as a measure to keep staff has now turned into the perfect way to replace the Linux kernel for a lot of Google components.

sea_horse 8y ago

yet another data mining OS.

benguild 8y ago

Is Fuchsia only going to run on Google hardware, like iOS? All third-party manufacturers will be stuck with just legacy Android, and Google will have a contender to iOS.

bunnycorn 8y ago
Considering it's going to be open source, it would be strange to be proprietary.

zapzupnz 8y ago

My wondering out loud: is the Android Runtime in Fuschia supposed to be Google's Blue Box or Red Box? Classic or Carbon?

lastrosade 8y ago

They were so close to having a .fart file extension