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Great Wall Motor unveils $9k electric urban car with nearly 200-mile range
- sparkpeasy 8y agoHow do these do in a crash test?
- glibgil 8y agoNo one knows
- jacquesm 8y agoThey'll crash just fine.
- peteretep 8y agoIt's not the fall, it's the hard stop at the ending that gets ya.
- chucky_z 8y agoThe top speed is only 100kmh or so, so it's probably subject to some special rules
- zizee 8y ago100kmh is plenty fast enough to have a major accident.
- LoSboccacc 8y agoThere are lot of fatal crashes in cities as well, because going 30 while getting hit frontally by a speedster at 60 is still releasing 90dv of energy and that scales quadratically with speed
- setquk 8y agoEuro NCAP will be mostly “nope”. It’s not that the Chinese can’t build decent cars (Qoros 3 got 5 stars) but definitely not at that price point. Also no dealer, service or parts supply here in Europe so no thanks. Stick with my Citroen.
- ObsoleteNerd 8y agoWe get a fair few of them (edit: Great Walls, not this new model) in Australia, and they're pretty universally considered utter crap. From reliability to crash tests, they consistently just don't live up to the marketing and hype. Sure they're cheap, but this seems to very much be a "you get what you pay for" cheap, not a "great bang for buck" cheap. Personally I've only been in 1, one of the newer utes, and it felt like a 15 yr old base-model rental, despite being brand new and spec'd out. Few examples of previous models bombing their testing: > The budget Great Wall Steed ute has scored a shocking two stars in the latest round of ANCAP crash testing, against the 2016 ratings criteria. https://www.caradvice.com.au/545184/great-wall-steed-flunks-ancap-test-with-two-star-rating/ https://www.caradvice.com.au/545184/great-wall-steed-flunks-... > Chinese Haval H9 SUV slammed in world first independent crash test, conducted in Australia > [...]sales of Chinese vehicles have almost come to standstill in Australia after safety recalls of Great Wall Motors utes due to asbestos components and poor crash test ratings of earlier models in recent years. https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/chinese-haval-h9-suv-slammed-in-world-first-independent-crash-test-conducted-in-australia/news-story/6adc49925357489ddea1a4ea88ff2427 https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/chine...
- peteretep 8y ago> they're pretty universally considered utter crap. From reliability to crash tests, they consistently just don't live up to the marketing and hype If I remember my history correctly, this used to be true of Japanese exports too (and Taiwanese, and Korean, et al). Hopefully the Chinese will improve with time, and start to be known for high-quality exports!
- ggm 8y agoI've ridden a Chinese electric taxi in Guangzhou. it was fine. If you want to walk away from a high speed crash I'd chose something else. If you stick under 60km/h which is what an awful lot of urban driving is, in traffic, I think you'd survive. A 1960s mini minor, or a fiat 500 or even a fiat panda or a Citroen 2cv would be as dangerous. And yet, entirely street legal.
- gambiting 8y agoTbf, Fiat Panda has recently been downgraded to 1 out of 5 stars in European safety tests, due to the fact that the most advanced safety feature it has is a beeper if you don't put your seatbelt on. So while still legal, hopefully the dire safety rating should put at least some buyers off.
- ggm 8y agoStatic seatbelts. God.. what a pain they were. I liked the first panda, it felt a lot like a 2cv or a mini. I suspect it would be hard to get real insurance now, for the obvious reasons. Mind you.. the Dutch canta.. now there's a deathtrap and more than a few of them on th streets of Amsterdam
- emmelaich 8y agoWikipedia says that the Panda gets 4/5 for the 2012 version - -the latest apparently.
- gambiting 8y agoAs always, Wikipedia is outdated. And I was wrong too - Fiat Panda was awarded no stars recently, the worst possible score: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fleetnews.co.uk/amp/news/manufacturer-news/2018/12/05/euro-ncap-awards-fiat-panda-zero-stars-for-safety https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fleetnews.co.uk/amp/news/ma...
- dingaling 8y agoYou have to be careful when interpreting 'safety feature'. It does of course have airbags and SIPS but NCAP is now considering driver-assistance equipment as part of the assessment. So they moved the goalposts and retested the same Panda. And as a result year's NCAP 'stars' signify something different to previous model years, so a zero rating in 2018 might still be better than four stars in 2014. That is important when comparing against second-hand models. Personally I think that NCAP should just rate on actual impact protection measures and provide additional, supplemtary ratings for other features.
- rconti 8y ago35kWh on a boxy vehicle? As mentioned in the article, more like 150mi range on the standard the US uses to calculate range, and a smaller battery than some Zero motorcycles. Not tiny, but it's not exactly a slippery vehicle; low mass could help it do better than a tesla-type car at lower speeds, but worse at higher speeds, I imagine. Charge to 90% and you're at 135mi range, leave a safety margin and now you're looking at 100mi real world. Not bad for most day-to-day, but when you look at real world usage and the safety margins most drivers like to use, it starts getting dicey. Been in a Great Wall or two. Fine cars. I wouldn't want to crash in one, but they're engineered to a price point.
- adrianN 8y agoThis is supposed to be an urban car. Almost all trips in cities are less than 20km (Berlin is about 30km across, Beijing maybe twice that). Even a 160km range is plenty if there are chargers where you park your car. I suppose China is building charging stations to match their accelerated introduction of EVs in their cities.
- smush 8y agoI'm sorry but I can't afford to own two+ vehicles, one for urban, one for long range. For the purposes of the article, 'long range' equals one tank of gas (~250 miles in my 90s SUV) for an ICE. I am behind the concept of EVs in general, but IMHO they aren't quite practical for suburban (which is in EV terms in long range territory) usage. (yet!)
- adrianN 8y agoIf you drive more than 100 miles per day more often than once a month, then an EV is probably not for you. Otherwise you can just rent a car for the days where you need the range. Just like you rent a transporter when you buy new furniture instead of driving one every day to the office.
- magduf 8y agoYou don't need a vehicle for long range travel: when you want to do that, you either fly or take a train. What, your country doesn't have good trains for intercity transport? Maybe you should work on that.
- anoncoward111 8y agoBetween the Chinese price competitiveness and the vulnerability the car faces vis-a-vis 3 ton roadtrains ("Fords" and "RAMs")... ... we can be sure the US will do lots to ban importing these.
- shanghaiaway 8y agoIndeed. The free market is a concept only applied to other countries, never to the US.
- anoncoward111 8y agoAs an American, I've been thoroughly and continuously shocked to see how roughly 50% of voters seem very devoted to supporting mercantilism and cronyism, as if this somehow makes their lives better. But then again this is also the same demographic that lines up to pay $50,000 for a truck that delivers marginal value compared to a $6,000 used Nissan or Mitsubishi. Especially when the majority of truck owners don't haul anything heavy (concrete, tile, metal).
- peteretep 8y ago> seem very devoted to supporting mercantilism and cronyism America was arguably made great via the free markets and market forces. People know this instinctively. However, these same firms now push this idea to become rent-seekers, and I don't feel like we've seen an adjustment from the left of politics to counter this, or point out economic market failures. cf: safety regulations. Seen as hurting business. Yes, they stop individual companies making super-normal profits. But that's because they're stopping these same companies from selling the common good for profit. Wildly off on a tangent, I wonder if we're not going to see someone running on an anti-corruption platform at some point soon, where corruption is explicitly inclusive of: lobbying, rent-seeking, gerrymandering, and so on.
- anoncoward111 8y agoI hope someone does run but I'm not optimistic they would deliver. I am biased. I hate regulation because it isn't applied fairly. My gf's parents had their dry cleaner business shut down by NY state, who fined them $50,000 for allegedly failing to dispose of chemicals. They never paid, NY state never sued. However, Lawrence Aviation Co DID dump chemicals in NY state that permanently destroyed the water supply in Port Jefferson NY. The owner was fined $100,000, a small percentage of his networth compared to my gf's parents who are paycheck to paycheck. He served 1 year in prison despite potentially poisoning the 100,000 people who were on the local water supply.
- zizee 8y agoDoes anyone know the $$ hidden in the phrase "with incentives". If there are 20k of incentives, this press release is much less impressive than if there are $2k of incentives. Personally, I am very bullish on electric cars, and am hoping this is the start of a lot of other automakers releasing affordable (to little ol me) electric cars.
- tln 8y agoThis article explains it well but it's complicated. Around $9k or $7k https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/comparing-u.s.-and-chinese-electric-vehicle-policies https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/comparing-u.s.-and-chines... "The subsidy program was renewed again in 2016 - up to RMB 55,000 ($8,736) for each BEV and up to RMB 30,000 ($4,765) for each PHEV. It will decrease by 20 percent in 2017 and 2018 based on 2016’s standard"
- cauldron 8y agoIf your definition of eletric car is just car with a battery and engine then... https://twitter.com/GeorgStieler/status/1075195222953349120 https://twitter.com/GeorgStieler/status/1075195222953349120
- newnewpdro 8y agoWithout AMP (actually works in with noscript): https://electrek.co/2018/12/27/great-wall-motor-ora-r1-all-electric-urban-car/ https://electrek.co/2018/12/27/great-wall-motor-ora-r1-all-e...
- baybal2 8y ago> In addition, the big data cloud that is created as the result of the information collected from the ORA app, the ORA shopping site and the Tmall e-shop opens the way to the development of multiple scenarios for offline sales and services as well as new transportation services for both drivers and passengers.” In other words: a vending machine calling itself a car.
- alkonaut 8y agoI have a second car just for doing school runs. Never does more than 5km in a day, never goes over 40km/h. Still it requires expensive maintenance. I have long said I should replace it with something more like a golf-cart or electric bike with kids in a trailer or something. This kind of car could be that. I’m happy with a 20km range but it has to be cheap. The current car I use is worth less than the cost of its overdue timing belt change.
- adrianN 8y agoA bike trailer is less than $200. But if the trips are shorter than 5km, why not let the kids do them by themselves? How old are they?
- jankeymeulen 8y agoCargo bike is most excellent for these kind of trips. I take my 0 and 2 year old in an Urban Arrow to school / daycare.
- adrianN 8y agoUnfortunately they cost more than a used car. The Urban Arrow family is like 5000€.
- m_mueller 8y agoThis always ignores running costs however. Parking and insurance alone is 200 USD/mo where I live. Electric bikes can be expensive to acquire but then they run on next to nothing.
- adrianN 8y agoOf course. But imho the advantage of a cargo bike over a normal bike with a trailer isn't worth the extra cost. Not to mention that for poorer people it's often easier to pay higher running costs than coming up with a big chunk of cash up front (see Sam Vines' theory of economic inequality).
- blackbrokkoli 8y agoIgnoring whether this is a great engineering accomplishment or not: > In addition, the big data cloud that is created as the result of the information collected from the ORA app, the ORA shopping site and the Tmall e-shop opens the way to the development of multiple scenarios for offline sales I don't see that much discussion about this trend, but I consider it a threat to security as well as just plain bad UX. All these UX gimmicks and "features" I already loathe in web apps, I really don't want them in my car. Pay to unlock, tracking, remote control, AI. Sure, it's comfort, but what is the price? At this point I prefer a 90's car where you just turn the key and it works or don't. Is this just "get-off-my-lawn" thinking?
- Traster 8y agoI think one trend we've seen emerging in markets everywhere is that despite competition in the market there isn't significant differentiation. So you'd think great, we've got this tech and I'll go with the company where I pay a little more and don't have to give up all my privacy. But instead what we end up with is 90% of companies bundling in all the privacy invasion stuff (because they like the new revenue stream or the share holders demand they follow the trend or they simply can't make the margin on the product) and then 10% of companies go right to the top end, and whilst you get your privacy you're also paying for massively premium products. I see this in the smart home devices - you can trust NONE of them, with the exception of a tiny minority like Apple who also then charge a fortune extra because they're trying to sell a premium product for other reasons. So in the end you're not overwhelmed by choice, you're railroaded.
- thatoneuser 8y agoNah I don’t think this is get off my lawn. “Features” have become the modern version of the next big thing, and humans are drawn to them like moths to a flame. In the rush we’ve given up a lot of personal rights to corporations without second thought. This isn’t like the invention of cars where people irrationally wanted to cling to a simpler way of life. This has been a tremendous paradigm shift for the autonomy and liberty of our citizens. And as we see China implementing a dystopian social credit system, we really ought to be considering what traps were setting for our future selves. Oh you didn’t pay off your Facebook credit card on time? Guess we’ll deactivate your car and drive it back to the factory until you sort that out. Hm looks like you like to go to some sketchy businesses that we don’t really think you should be going to? Ok we’re going to block off areas of the city where you’re permitted to drive to - trust us, it’s for your own good. If we had that mythical “benevolent government” then sure this shouldn’t be an issue. But in this country you can literally be chilling in your apartment playing video games (or just chilling...) and get raided/murdered by police who are following a random SWAT call. I don’t trust my primary mode of escape to be locked down by the government. And no one should.
- PavlovsCat 8y agoIs "Great Wall Motor" a name that's supposed to appeal to English-speaking audiences? It's not my first language, but even to me "Motor" sounds just wrong, it should be "Motors". No matter how often I read it, it still seems wrong. Sorry for bikeshedding, but I don't drive a car :P
- qaq 8y agoIs there some rule somewhere that electric cars have to be fugly? (with some notable exceptions obviously)
- pard68 8y agoSomething that keeps me from getting an hybrid or electric vehicle is that I can no longer fix them. My '01 Subaru is a simple machine. When something goes wrong there are only a few potential issues and usually it is either something I can do myself or something my mechanic can do for less than $500. My mechanic won't even look at electric or hybrid cars because he isn't certified. My brother in laws hybrid Nissan had an issue over Christmas. I took a look at it and a mechanic took a look at it (friend of the family doing him a favor). Turned out to be an electronic issue, dealer ended up having to replace a controller that cost north of $1200. When they diagnosed it I did some research and discovered that I could replace it, but much like the market for HVAC parts, I wasn't allowed to purchase the part... I will probably ve sticking with my Subaru and get my wife (who is looking for a new car after hers died) an early 00s vehicle that I can still repair for less than ridiculous prices.
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoMy understanding is that the failure rates are so low on electric motors, you won’t need to fix lots of problems like on an ICE-powered vehicle. As someone that has owned a lot of shitty gas cars and had to repair them myself, I’d relish the chance for an electric.
- maratd 8y agoWhile this is true with regards to the motor, battery, etc. the rest of the car is the same as standard vehicles and will fail in the same way as today's cars do. So if the AC fails, some computer board fries, suspension gets messed up, etc. you're still back at the shop.
- kurthr 8y agoYes, but those components (mostly) haven't changed. They're also (mostly) not part of the "standard" maintenance which dominates ICE vehicles post sale profitability. Another reason dealers don't want to sell EVs.
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- ryanmarsh 8y ago$9k? That’s less than a Tesla battery pack. checks specs 62mph top speed, 33kwh battery, 150mi real world range, looks like the size of a smart car. Yep. No surprises here. I bet the fit and finish is worse than a Ford Ranger
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- driverdan 8y agoKeep in mind this is with significant subsidies. A 33kWh battery pack alone costs more than that retail. You can make anything cheap to the consumer when you funnel tax money into it.
- WhompingWindows 8y agoLike "cheap" energy from carbon emissions from coal, oil, and gas? If you mention subsidies for EVs, must mention the MUCH larger and historically MASSIVE subsidies all polluters have been given by dumping their garbage into our atmosphere for free.
- kumarvvr 8y agoAnother way to look at it is to see the subsidy as an investment by the govt. and then calculate the ROI on that investment. As long as it's above 0, it should be ok. With subsidized electric vehicles, there are huge savings in terms of cost of imported oil, new jobs created in a new industry segment as a whole, new areas of economy opened up for growth, geo-political implications in terms of more negotiating power for purchasing energy, etc. Not all subsidies are bad, not all capitalist systems are good.
- codazoda 8y agoWish we could get cheap cars in the U.S. Our prices are crazy. I recall hearing the smart car could be sold cheaply in its original country, but after importing it and meeting all U.S. requirements, the price quadrupled.
- kuhhk 8y agoI've always wondered how much would the price of a car/truck decrease, if advertising for vehicles would be banned? 10%? 20%? 30%? And if they authorized cars to be sold outside of showrooms, how much would they drop further? It seems to me that a huge portion of the price winds up paying for advertising + the showroom building + the salesperson and their administrative staff. I hope one day we can go from factory -> consumer without all this extra cost baked in.
- Tade0 8y ago> Wish we could get cheap cars in the U.S. Our prices are crazy. They are actually lower than in Europe, mind you. The Scion iM a.k.a. Toyota Auris starts at ~$17k. in Europe to give an example.
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- rwmj 8y agoThis actually has almost the same range as my petrol car - it's a terrible Kia automatic with a microscopic gas tank that gets 225 miles on a full tank. I suppose these won't be sold in Europe because they don't pass safety standards?
- Tobias42 8y agoInteresting vehicle, but the design is such a rip-off. Honda Urban EV in the front and Smart forfour in the back. It would be interesting to know what the unsubsidized price is and if it ever comes to the west. The e.Go Life has a similar concept but does not seem to be able to compete on price or battery capacity.
- Markoff 8y agothere is one more reasons why electric cars are popular in Beijing or shanghai, good luck getting license plate for gasoline engine and license plate itself will cost almost as much as this car if you would have to pay free thousands euros just for license plate and even to get it you would have to win lottery, most if the people would think twice about buying gasoline engine cars