11 ms·

AirPods get stuck in low-quality 16 kHz audio mode when starting a VM

227 points by geerlingguy 8y ago

learningcn 8y ago
The same with Bose QC35 II while running StarCraft II on macOS
deanclatworthy 8y ago
Similarly there’s a bug when starting the iOS simulator with certain permissions that does this to ALL Bluetooth headsets.
- xenadu02 8y ago
  Go to the Hardware menu, Audio Input, and select "Built-in Microphone" as the input. Then input will never use your BT headphones.
pteraspidomorph 8y ago
They are probably getting paired with a device capable of receiving audio input (the VM itself?) and the bluetooth profile jumps from A2DP to HSP.
drivingmenuts 8y ago
Did weird stuff like this happen with wired headphones?
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  Nope. The weird Bluetooth audio standards that cause these issues (the entire headset switches modes sometimes just because the microphone is switched) don't apply to wired inputs in my experience. Unfortunately, this problem isn't _exclusive_ to AirPods though... it has happened with a few other Bluetooth headsets I've used too. I don't seem to have ever had this issue on my iPad or iPhone, though I can't run VMs on them either :)
- pohl 8y ago
  It’s definitely a Bluetooth audio thing. I can hear mine shift into a lower quality audio when I use them for conference calls. (There’s a limited amount of bandwidth and it has to make room for bidirectional audio.)
  - makarhum 8y ago
    As someone else pointed out it is not actually bandwidth problem. Reason behind this is that high quality audio streaming profile A2DP is one-way only and once mic is needed, profile is changed to bidirectional but low quality HSP. My workaround for conference calls is to use my MacBook's internal microphone instead of one of my Bluetooth headset.
    - pohl 8y ago
      I suspect that the underlying reason that the profile switch happens, though, is because of bandwidth limits. That’s what Sennheiser is telling their customers, at least. https://sennheiseruk.happyfox.com/kb/article/175-different-bluetooth-profiles-a2dp-vs-hsp/ https://sennheiseruk.happyfox.com/kb/article/175-different-b... The real answer may be more subtle than that. Maybe there is just enough bandwidth, but using it would have an adverse effect on latency, which bidirectional use cases are more sensitive to. Either way, the profiles were designed within constraints. They’re not arbitrary.
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  Yes, there are two standards for the 4 "pin" 3.5mm jack, and buttons on wired headphones are in general a gigantic hack.
jerkstate 8y ago
This happened to me in Windows on my bose qc35's when I started GTA5
synaesthesisx 8y ago
It's likely because the microphone/input channel is being activated - forcing the low-quality audio codec.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Yup, this seems to happen whenever AirPods convinces itself that it needs to use its microphone, which seems to necessitate degrading the audio quality.
  - zbuttram 8y ago
    Doesn't happen on iOS though, which leads me to think it must be a limitation of the Bluetooth hardware in Macs but not in iPhones and iPads?
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      I have seen this happen when using Siri or calling people on iOS.
      - zbuttram 8y ago
        All of my iOS devices are rather new, perhaps it depends on which one. I've used Siri, made calls, and spoke in channels on Discord without having it happen on my iPhones 7 and XS, and 2018 iPad. In comparison, my Macs are a 2013 Macbook Pro (running Mojave) and a Hackintosh desktop (still on High Sierra).
        saagarjha 8y ago
        I’m using an iPhone SE, so it might be that it doesn’t have the necessary features to support this?
    - reificator 8y ago
      I encounter this issue with a different headset (Steelseries something or other) and both a MacBook Pro and a Lenovo something or other. As soon as the headset is told to turn on the mic, quality drops significantly. I figured it was by design, and using a better codec/more bandwidth whenever it could afford to, but dropping down to half that in order to run the mic channel side by side.
saagarjha 8y ago
I figured I’d ask this here: my AirPods have never been what I’d call “perfect”, and I’m trying to figure out whether these are fundamental issues with AirPods or if I have a bad pair. Is it normal for AirPods to ignore double taps on them 50% of the time (it’s worse if I try to use Siri, which almost never works, and better if I try to play/pause but still not great)? My AirPods also take up to thirty seconds to switch between devices. Is this normal? Everyone I have met raves about their AirPods but for me they have simply been “passable”, at the level I’d expect from any other Bluetooth headphones.
- heavymark 8y ago
  No none of that is normal. If it were, no one would buy them or write the rave reviews you've read. What happened when you reached out to Apple Support about those issues?
  - geerlingguy 8y ago
    Agreed with the above; my first pair (I wrote about them on my blog [1]) had terrible issues with reliability on one of my Macs. I found that the left AirPod was actually bad, and got a free replacement left earbud. Since then, they've been great. [1] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2017/how-i-discovered-my-left-airpod-was-bad https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2017/how-i-discovered-my-l...
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Hmm, I will try this with my pair and see if I can find the issue. Thanks!
  - anoncareer0212 8y ago
    Why the accusatory tone? He's given incredible interpretive charity already, it's not an astroturfing campaign to discredit Apple.
    - zapzupnz 8y ago
cdolan 8y ago
I've found that if I ever do a Facetime call on my 2015 ESC Macbook pro, my Airpods use the same terrible quality audio channel. Very frustrating to say the least!
dijit 8y ago
Happens to my Bose QC35s quite often. Part of the issue is that the mic cannot be enabled when full quality audio is active. I guess this is a bandwidth limitation. My issue stems from pulse audio saying that high quality mode is not available though. Common problem though. Not exclusive to AirPods.
- vel0city 8y ago
  Meh, its not really a bandwidth limitation on modern Bluetooth devices, only that it negotiates a different Bluetooth profle. The high quality stereo audio mode (A2DP) has no support for microphones in the spec and is usually highly buffered, so it switches over to the headset profile (HSP). This mode is designed for compatibility all the way back to your old Motorola Razr flip phone, so it doesn't exactly have the highest quality audio options. If we were to really look at it as a pure bandwidth concept, Bluetooth has plenty of bandwidth to handle high-quality, low-latency, compressed audio streams between two devices. There just isn't a profile written into the spec to handle it, so there's no standard way of negotiating that between a headset and a device. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles
  - southerndrift 8y ago
    >(A2DP) [...] is usually highly buffered, so it switches over to the headset profile (HSP). Thanks for this information. That explains why it is reasonable to drop the audio quality.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  Yup. It's really annoying to have to switch Skype back to use my internal mic every time, but not annoying enough to automate it.
zbuttram 8y ago
Yep, happens any time the AirPods mic is activated on MacOS, has been that way since launch as far as I know. Doesn't happen on iOS. I can only assume it has something to do with the Bluetooth hardware or they would have fixed it by now.
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  But it usually goes back once the mic is no longer being used. And I've had it happen a few times where I take a 'continuity phone call' from my iPhone on my Mac. The AirPods switch to the low-quality call mode, I have my conversation, I hang up, and the audio quality still stays switched until I do the Audio MIDI workaround or reboot. Most of the time that doesn't happen, though—when I hang up the audio goes back to normal mode (48 kHz). So it seems to be a weird bug with the switching that I've only ever seen on the Mac (works perfect on iOS).
userbinator 8y ago
I have tried to read the BlueTooth specs a few times, never really getting anywhere, and am amazed that it all (mostly) works given the immense complexity in those standards[1]. Thus I'm not surprised that bugs like this can occur. [1] The BT5 core spec is freely downloadable. It is a 25MB PDF with over 2800 pages. That's just the core, there are other specifications that layer on top of it.
- darawk 8y ago
  I'm curious, to people here who are technically familiar with the standard, do you think this complexity is justified, or is it a case of an over-engineered protocol?
  - dmitrygr 8y ago
    It has 20 years of organic growth and includes a lot of lessons learned from the initial underspecification. Lots of profiles were specified but never used (video delivery, over bluetooth, anyone?). Many were not fully thought through and had to be revised (often in nasty ways to remain backwards-compatible). Sadly backwards compatibility makes it worse and worse every year. If you go and write a stack that complies with the spec 100%, you'll find that it works with maybe 50% of devices out there. BT 4.0 was a chance to start over, and it will help a lot, in time... BT 5.1 will likely finally bring stereo audio over BT LE, with a cleaner spec than A2DP is. But once again, until all the EDR (classic) devices out there are trashed, BT classic remains a huge pain in everyone's rear and a mandatory thing to support. How soon is that? More than 10 years from now! Why? Cars are a major BT use case and many still ship with BT 2.1 car kits. People do not replace cars as easily as headphones. source: i work on this currently
    - freshhawk 8y ago
      > source: i work this currently You have my deepest condolences. Thank you for your sacrifice.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      If BT 4 is better, shouldn't BT 4 devices like the AirPods connected to BT 4 devices like modern Mac computers not have these types of weird problems? :/
floatingatoll 8y ago
You may find value in this Mac app that disables the microphone input channel on AirPods as part of pairing them, which should in theory permanently resolve your issue: https://c-command.com/toothfairy/ https://c-command.com/toothfairy/ (Note that I neither know how they’re doing it nor have I tried to reverse engineer it. Works well for me in non-VMWare scenarios!)
- zbuttram 8y ago
  I have Toothfairy and it is amazing as a quicker way to connect my AirPods to my Mac, but I've tried that option for disabling input and it didn't seem to work for me unfortunately. Still absolutely worth the $3 for the other features though.
  - mjtsai 8y ago
    The only time I’ve seen the input switching not work is if there’s another app that keeps forcibly changing the input back to the AirPods. Some games and virtual environments do that. If you contact toothfairy@c-command.com, I can look into what the issue might be on your Mac.
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  That’s great! This kind of app is priced perfectly for what it does. I’m going to give it a try this week, thanks for the rec! I use an external microphone anyways, so on my Mac I never use the AirPods as an input. I do on the iPhone and iPad, but not on the Mac.
- velobro 8y ago
  +1 for Tooth fairy. I use it to quickly switch between multiple different Bluetooth headsets when at work
- pasta1212 8y ago
  I do the same thing I think, but with Hammerspoon. The script I’m using in Hammerspoon automatically switches the Input Device back to Internal Microphone when a BT device is connected. Solves the issue for all BT devices w/speakers + mic. I haven’t used it, but I’m guessing ToothFairy does the same thing, although maybe it has some more bells and whistles.
aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
Back patting myself for sticking to wired, passive earphones. I ain’t got no time for debugging yet another piece of crap on top of my WiFi router, my NAS, my HTPC, and other misc. equipment that should have just f_cking worked...
ddingus 8y ago
Headphone jack? Honestly I just hate Bluetooth. I've had it work really well. Been completely pleased. But I've also seen a never-ending raft of this crap. I just don't want to bother. I'll take the wire thanks
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  I prefer wires in almost every situation (just upgraded to a 16 port switch because I have enough wired devices in the house for it now), especially for audio... but in this case I’m in meetings a lot, I listen to songs sometimes in between, and I move around my office quite a bit. I struggled with a decent USB headset for a while, but after five or so times almost breaking my computer from moving my arm and catching the cord (thus yanking the computer off the desk), I started a journey down the path of many different Bluetooth options.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Yeah. I have some bluetooth gear. I so very rarely use it, but like you, there are times, right? I just do not expect much. If it pairs and does anything, cool. Get it done, ditch it quick. When it works well? Total fucking bonus! I have that gear due to a couple well meant gifts. Like most things, it goes in my road bag. I have a very wide variety of bits in there accumulated over 20 some years. Can handle a ton of odd scenarios. Built it up one fucked scenario at a time. (Like a lot of us probably have) Edit: New venture, and it is more service related. I am building up a new bag. Lots of new tools instead of bits of tech. Fun! Every time I go to trim the fat, something comes up. Last time it was some poor tech, early in his career setting up the demo from hell for a trade show. They stuck the guy with some low grade monitor. The combination of the product graphics sub system, it's OS and that screen just would not play well with digital video, which he was equipped for. Tech support told him analog VGA... the look on his face was hilarious! He thought he was doomed. I went to my room, got the cable and gave it to him. "WTF?" I said, "this is how it starts brother, good luck, and keep the cable." (Yeah, I did replace that one. It is not over yet where analog video is concerned. Soon though. Soon, I keep saying...) That road bag goes to shows and other engagements where who knows? Worth carrying it. A lighter version exists in my back pack. Mostly adapters, other bits. Lean and mean. I am mobile enough to warrant some kit or other. Blutooth has saved my ass a few times. Both kits have a couple basic Blutooth devices, and some USB ones too. To me, it is like that VGA cable, or odd gender changer, or dongle, USB device, world power brick with tips, etc. An option, and sometimes a welcome one, but not a daily driver. My dailies are super simple, very robust, ultra low hassle. I just do not have the time and energy. Save that for the tough gigs.
gtirloni 8y ago
I only skimmed the article but I didn't see Bluetooth profiles mentioned: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles It's likely switching from A2DP to HSP because the microphone is activated. This is very common with Bluetooth headsets and it's what still makes me choose corded headsets to this day. Newest Bluetooth reviews are supposed to have more bandwidth for high quality audio but I'm stuck with (not so) old speakers and car. If you need wireless, it's better to go with one of those 2.4GHz receivers but they require a small USB adapter. Not really a solution for AirPods.
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  I know that’s what happens, but the bug is that it stays in that mode even after the VM has relinquished its claim on the microphone. Note that this only started happening in this particular scenario after 10.14. It happens in other scenarios from time to time (that is, it stays in HSP even after the app requesting mic use is quit).
DiabloD3 8y ago
I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year, and is still a fucking unmitigated trainwreck of unusabilty.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Indeed. And you ought to see the vomit the Bluetooth puts over the spectrum. "Noise resistance" my ass. It barely works even when in ideal situations (no wifi, no bt, no microwave ovens). BT can die in a fire.
- morpheuskafka 8y ago
  Interesting. On Windows 10, it shows a in/out "Headset (AirPods Hands-Free)" and an out only "Headphones (AirPods Audio)." So this transition would be very easy for the user to see. However, I've as yet been unable to get a straight answer on what profile the "Headphones" mode is actually using.
  - DiabloD3 8y ago
    A2DP SBC. Apple products that implement AAC over A2DP only do so on iOS devices (and in only limited cases), and also do not implement anything else (such as any form of AptX, or LDAC).
    - crazysim 8y ago
      Oddly enough macOS supports AptX.
    - pilif 8y ago
      you can tell macOS to use AAC using an Apple tool called "Bluetooth Explorer". Also, Macs equipped with a T2 chip default to using AAC even without the manual intervention. You can check what codec is used by alt-clicking the bluetooth icon in your menu bar and hovering over your headphones. There will a an "Active Codec" entry that shows which one is used (during playback).
tedunangst 8y ago
A dozen comments that this happens because the microphone is turned on, but nobody is asking why vagrant is turning the microphone on?
- Rjevski 8y ago
  Vagrant is using VirtualBox under the hood, and presumably the default VB config is to let the VM use two-way audio, so it preemptively opens both the output and mic channel in case the VM needs it.
  - tedunangst 8y ago
    I have so many questions, but will not ask them because I don't think I'll like the answers.
    - voltagex_ 8y ago
      THe answer is better defaults. Raise a bug report.
- dcmorton 8y ago
  My solution/fix for this was downgrading VirtualBox back to 5.2.18; seems like something in Virtualbox 5.2.20+ seems to initialize the mic when the VM is booting. Guessing is an unintentional change since there's nothing in the changelogs specifically calling it out. There's likely some fiddling with the VirtualBox VM settings to prevent it from occurring, but things like Test Kitchen in Chef destroy/create new VMs constantly so any changes get quickly lost.
iscrewyou 8y ago
This happens to me on Parallels 10. But it only happens for like 5 seconds. Then it jumps back to normal sounding experience. It’s Parallels 10 booting up a Windows 7 VM.
froboy 8y ago
I've seen the same issue, and (at least in my case) it seems to be from audio being enabled on the VM and that getting passed through by Virtual Box. Something like this for your own box should solve the root cause: https://github.com/palantirnet/the-vagrant/pull/60 https://github.com/palantirnet/the-vagrant/pull/60
fortyseven 8y ago
Discovers a secret "Vaporwave Mode", calls it a bug, not a feature. Heretic!
TipVFL 8y ago
I recently ran across similar issues while developing a web app, https://rap.coach https://rap.coach , that features simultaneous audio playback and recording. A lot of people are saying that Bluetooth headsets have to go into a super-low quality mode when both playback and recording are enabled, but based on my testing it appears to be a software issue. The issue appears when I use Rap Coach with Chrome on Android, but doesn't happen in Firefox on Android. It is very frustrating, getting better control over the audio hardware is one of the main reasons I'm going to end up building app store versions of this thing.
ex3ndr 8y ago
This happens for any bluetooth headphones on Mac. It usually means that mic was turned on.
mmgutz 8y ago
To be fair, I've seen this happen with all my bluetooth headsets not just AirPods. The issue eventually fixes itself after the VM guest boots into an OS.
ianlevesque 8y ago
Honestly coreaudiod is a hot mess. Every time I plug in a usb audio adapter it puts balance at 100% left channel and max volume. killall coreaudiod fixes it. I miss when Macs worked reliably.
- bouke 8y ago
  I’ve run into this issue since owning my first Mac, circa 7 years ago. So while I don’t agree with your over generalization, I do agree that this is very bad and should be fixed once and for all!
m0zg 8y ago
I figure the audience is right on this site, so here's my question: for someone used to pretty decent over the ear and in-ear headphones (Sennheiser, AKG, Etymotic), are AirPods passable at least, or total trash like Apple's wired earbuds? What's the quality differential? This is the thing I don't get about Apple. They sell $1.1K phone and include these crappy $3 earbuds in the box. Can they do better? At their production volumes and profit margins, I have no doubt. Even Samsung includes a decent pair of AKGs.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  They're about the same as the normal earbuds but still way better than 3 dollar earbuds. I use them not for the quality but for the convenience when making phonecalls. Unfortunately the battery life on them is abysmal two years later. Barely lasts 10 minutes after daily use.
  - c1sc0 8y ago
    Never heard this before. Mine are 1yo with intensive use & easily still last hours. 2 years is a really short lifetime
cal97g 8y ago
Get a decent pair of headphones instead?
amelius 8y ago
Bluetooth works fine on my Linux desktop (ASUS mainboard) with Bluetooth dongle.

227 points by geerlingguy 8y ago

The same with Bose QC35 II while running StarCraft II on macOS

Similarly there’s a bug when starting the iOS simulator with certain permissions that does this to ALL Bluetooth headsets.

xenadu02 8y ago
Go to the Hardware menu, Audio Input, and select "Built-in Microphone" as the input. Then input will never use your BT headphones.

pteraspidomorph 8y ago

They are probably getting paired with a device capable of receiving audio input (the VM itself?) and the bluetooth profile jumps from A2DP to HSP.

drivingmenuts 8y ago

Did weird stuff like this happen with wired headphones?

geerlingguy 8y ago
Nope. The weird Bluetooth audio standards that cause these issues (the entire headset switches modes sometimes just because the microphone is switched) don't apply to wired inputs in my experience. Unfortunately, this problem isn't _exclusive_ to AirPods though... it has happened with a few other Bluetooth headsets I've used too. I don't seem to have ever had this issue on my iPad or iPhone, though I can't run VMs on them either :)
pohl 8y ago
It’s definitely a Bluetooth audio thing. I can hear mine shift into a lower quality audio when I use them for conference calls. (There’s a limited amount of bandwidth and it has to make room for bidirectional audio.)
- makarhum 8y ago
  As someone else pointed out it is not actually bandwidth problem. Reason behind this is that high quality audio streaming profile A2DP is one-way only and once mic is needed, profile is changed to bidirectional but low quality HSP. My workaround for conference calls is to use my MacBook's internal microphone instead of one of my Bluetooth headset.
  - pohl 8y ago
    I suspect that the underlying reason that the profile switch happens, though, is because of bandwidth limits. That’s what Sennheiser is telling their customers, at least. https://sennheiseruk.happyfox.com/kb/article/175-different-bluetooth-profiles-a2dp-vs-hsp/ https://sennheiseruk.happyfox.com/kb/article/175-different-b... The real answer may be more subtle than that. Maybe there is just enough bandwidth, but using it would have an adverse effect on latency, which bidirectional use cases are more sensitive to. Either way, the profiles were designed within constraints. They’re not arbitrary.
voltagex_ 8y ago
Yes, there are two standards for the 4 "pin" 3.5mm jack, and buttons on wired headphones are in general a gigantic hack.

jerkstate 8y ago

This happened to me in Windows on my bose qc35's when I started GTA5

synaesthesisx 8y ago

It's likely because the microphone/input channel is being activated - forcing the low-quality audio codec.

saagarjha 8y ago
Yup, this seems to happen whenever AirPods convinces itself that it needs to use its microphone, which seems to necessitate degrading the audio quality.
- zbuttram 8y ago
  Doesn't happen on iOS though, which leads me to think it must be a limitation of the Bluetooth hardware in Macs but not in iPhones and iPads?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    I have seen this happen when using Siri or calling people on iOS.
    - zbuttram 8y ago
      All of my iOS devices are rather new, perhaps it depends on which one. I've used Siri, made calls, and spoke in channels on Discord without having it happen on my iPhones 7 and XS, and 2018 iPad. In comparison, my Macs are a 2013 Macbook Pro (running Mojave) and a Hackintosh desktop (still on High Sierra).
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        I’m using an iPhone SE, so it might be that it doesn’t have the necessary features to support this?
  - reificator 8y ago
    I encounter this issue with a different headset (Steelseries something or other) and both a MacBook Pro and a Lenovo something or other. As soon as the headset is told to turn on the mic, quality drops significantly. I figured it was by design, and using a better codec/more bandwidth whenever it could afford to, but dropping down to half that in order to run the mic channel side by side.

saagarjha 8y ago

I figured I’d ask this here: my AirPods have never been what I’d call “perfect”, and I’m trying to figure out whether these are fundamental issues with AirPods or if I have a bad pair. Is it normal for AirPods to ignore double taps on them 50% of the time (it’s worse if I try to use Siri, which almost never works, and better if I try to play/pause but still not great)? My AirPods also take up to thirty seconds to switch between devices. Is this normal? Everyone I have met raves about their AirPods but for me they have simply been “passable”, at the level I’d expect from any other Bluetooth headphones.

heavymark 8y ago
No none of that is normal. If it were, no one would buy them or write the rave reviews you've read. What happened when you reached out to Apple Support about those issues?
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  Agreed with the above; my first pair (I wrote about them on my blog [1]) had terrible issues with reliability on one of my Macs. I found that the left AirPod was actually bad, and got a free replacement left earbud. Since then, they've been great. [1] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2017/how-i-discovered-my-left-airpod-was-bad https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2017/how-i-discovered-my-l...
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Hmm, I will try this with my pair and see if I can find the issue. Thanks!
- anoncareer0212 8y ago
  Why the accusatory tone? He's given incredible interpretive charity already, it's not an astroturfing campaign to discredit Apple.
  - zapzupnz 8y ago

cdolan 8y ago

I've found that if I ever do a Facetime call on my 2015 ESC Macbook pro, my Airpods use the same terrible quality audio channel. Very frustrating to say the least!

dijit 8y ago

Happens to my Bose QC35s quite often. Part of the issue is that the mic cannot be enabled when full quality audio is active. I guess this is a bandwidth limitation. My issue stems from pulse audio saying that high quality mode is not available though. Common problem though. Not exclusive to AirPods.

vel0city 8y ago
Meh, its not really a bandwidth limitation on modern Bluetooth devices, only that it negotiates a different Bluetooth profle. The high quality stereo audio mode (A2DP) has no support for microphones in the spec and is usually highly buffered, so it switches over to the headset profile (HSP). This mode is designed for compatibility all the way back to your old Motorola Razr flip phone, so it doesn't exactly have the highest quality audio options. If we were to really look at it as a pure bandwidth concept, Bluetooth has plenty of bandwidth to handle high-quality, low-latency, compressed audio streams between two devices. There just isn't a profile written into the spec to handle it, so there's no standard way of negotiating that between a headset and a device. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles
- southerndrift 8y ago
  >(A2DP) [...] is usually highly buffered, so it switches over to the headset profile (HSP). Thanks for this information. That explains why it is reasonable to drop the audio quality.
akhilcacharya 8y ago
Yup. It's really annoying to have to switch Skype back to use my internal mic every time, but not annoying enough to automate it.

zbuttram 8y ago

Yep, happens any time the AirPods mic is activated on MacOS, has been that way since launch as far as I know. Doesn't happen on iOS. I can only assume it has something to do with the Bluetooth hardware or they would have fixed it by now.

geerlingguy 8y ago
But it usually goes back once the mic is no longer being used. And I've had it happen a few times where I take a 'continuity phone call' from my iPhone on my Mac. The AirPods switch to the low-quality call mode, I have my conversation, I hang up, and the audio quality still stays switched until I do the Audio MIDI workaround or reboot. Most of the time that doesn't happen, though—when I hang up the audio goes back to normal mode (48 kHz). So it seems to be a weird bug with the switching that I've only ever seen on the Mac (works perfect on iOS).

userbinator 8y ago

I have tried to read the BlueTooth specs a few times, never really getting anywhere, and am amazed that it all (mostly) works given the immense complexity in those standards[1]. Thus I'm not surprised that bugs like this can occur. [1] The BT5 core spec is freely downloadable. It is a 25MB PDF with over 2800 pages. That's just the core, there are other specifications that layer on top of it.

darawk 8y ago
I'm curious, to people here who are technically familiar with the standard, do you think this complexity is justified, or is it a case of an over-engineered protocol?
- dmitrygr 8y ago
  It has 20 years of organic growth and includes a lot of lessons learned from the initial underspecification. Lots of profiles were specified but never used (video delivery, over bluetooth, anyone?). Many were not fully thought through and had to be revised (often in nasty ways to remain backwards-compatible). Sadly backwards compatibility makes it worse and worse every year. If you go and write a stack that complies with the spec 100%, you'll find that it works with maybe 50% of devices out there. BT 4.0 was a chance to start over, and it will help a lot, in time... BT 5.1 will likely finally bring stereo audio over BT LE, with a cleaner spec than A2DP is. But once again, until all the EDR (classic) devices out there are trashed, BT classic remains a huge pain in everyone's rear and a mandatory thing to support. How soon is that? More than 10 years from now! Why? Cars are a major BT use case and many still ship with BT 2.1 car kits. People do not replace cars as easily as headphones. source: i work on this currently
  - freshhawk 8y ago
    > source: i work this currently You have my deepest condolences. Thank you for your sacrifice.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    If BT 4 is better, shouldn't BT 4 devices like the AirPods connected to BT 4 devices like modern Mac computers not have these types of weird problems? :/

floatingatoll 8y ago

You may find value in this Mac app that disables the microphone input channel on AirPods as part of pairing them, which should in theory permanently resolve your issue: https://c-command.com/toothfairy/ https://c-command.com/toothfairy/ (Note that I neither know how they’re doing it nor have I tried to reverse engineer it. Works well for me in non-VMWare scenarios!)

zbuttram 8y ago
I have Toothfairy and it is amazing as a quicker way to connect my AirPods to my Mac, but I've tried that option for disabling input and it didn't seem to work for me unfortunately. Still absolutely worth the $3 for the other features though.
- mjtsai 8y ago
  The only time I’ve seen the input switching not work is if there’s another app that keeps forcibly changing the input back to the AirPods. Some games and virtual environments do that. If you contact toothfairy@c-command.com, I can look into what the issue might be on your Mac.
geerlingguy 8y ago
That’s great! This kind of app is priced perfectly for what it does. I’m going to give it a try this week, thanks for the rec! I use an external microphone anyways, so on my Mac I never use the AirPods as an input. I do on the iPhone and iPad, but not on the Mac.
velobro 8y ago
+1 for Tooth fairy. I use it to quickly switch between multiple different Bluetooth headsets when at work
pasta1212 8y ago
I do the same thing I think, but with Hammerspoon. The script I’m using in Hammerspoon automatically switches the Input Device back to Internal Microphone when a BT device is connected. Solves the issue for all BT devices w/speakers + mic. I haven’t used it, but I’m guessing ToothFairy does the same thing, although maybe it has some more bells and whistles.

aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago

Back patting myself for sticking to wired, passive earphones. I ain’t got no time for debugging yet another piece of crap on top of my WiFi router, my NAS, my HTPC, and other misc. equipment that should have just f_cking worked...

ddingus 8y ago

Headphone jack? Honestly I just hate Bluetooth. I've had it work really well. Been completely pleased. But I've also seen a never-ending raft of this crap. I just don't want to bother. I'll take the wire thanks

geerlingguy 8y ago
I prefer wires in almost every situation (just upgraded to a 16 port switch because I have enough wired devices in the house for it now), especially for audio... but in this case I’m in meetings a lot, I listen to songs sometimes in between, and I move around my office quite a bit. I struggled with a decent USB headset for a while, but after five or so times almost breaking my computer from moving my arm and catching the cord (thus yanking the computer off the desk), I started a journey down the path of many different Bluetooth options.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Yeah. I have some bluetooth gear. I so very rarely use it, but like you, there are times, right? I just do not expect much. If it pairs and does anything, cool. Get it done, ditch it quick. When it works well? Total fucking bonus! I have that gear due to a couple well meant gifts. Like most things, it goes in my road bag. I have a very wide variety of bits in there accumulated over 20 some years. Can handle a ton of odd scenarios. Built it up one fucked scenario at a time. (Like a lot of us probably have) Edit: New venture, and it is more service related. I am building up a new bag. Lots of new tools instead of bits of tech. Fun! Every time I go to trim the fat, something comes up. Last time it was some poor tech, early in his career setting up the demo from hell for a trade show. They stuck the guy with some low grade monitor. The combination of the product graphics sub system, it's OS and that screen just would not play well with digital video, which he was equipped for. Tech support told him analog VGA... the look on his face was hilarious! He thought he was doomed. I went to my room, got the cable and gave it to him. "WTF?" I said, "this is how it starts brother, good luck, and keep the cable." (Yeah, I did replace that one. It is not over yet where analog video is concerned. Soon though. Soon, I keep saying...) That road bag goes to shows and other engagements where who knows? Worth carrying it. A lighter version exists in my back pack. Mostly adapters, other bits. Lean and mean. I am mobile enough to warrant some kit or other. Blutooth has saved my ass a few times. Both kits have a couple basic Blutooth devices, and some USB ones too. To me, it is like that VGA cable, or odd gender changer, or dongle, USB device, world power brick with tips, etc. An option, and sometimes a welcome one, but not a daily driver. My dailies are super simple, very robust, ultra low hassle. I just do not have the time and energy. Save that for the tough gigs.

gtirloni 8y ago

I only skimmed the article but I didn't see Bluetooth profiles mentioned: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles It's likely switching from A2DP to HSP because the microphone is activated. This is very common with Bluetooth headsets and it's what still makes me choose corded headsets to this day. Newest Bluetooth reviews are supposed to have more bandwidth for high quality audio but I'm stuck with (not so) old speakers and car. If you need wireless, it's better to go with one of those 2.4GHz receivers but they require a small USB adapter. Not really a solution for AirPods.

geerlingguy 8y ago
I know that’s what happens, but the bug is that it stays in that mode even after the VM has relinquished its claim on the microphone. Note that this only started happening in this particular scenario after 10.14. It happens in other scenarios from time to time (that is, it stays in HSP even after the app requesting mic use is quit).

DiabloD3 8y ago

I will also repeat what has been said about twelve times thus far: Enabling microphone makes Bluetooth headsets turn into pure shit. Guess what 5.0 finally allows as per spec? You can use any codec you want for telephony mode, including 44.1 stereo + 44.1 mono SBC. Guess what Apple does not implement, and guess what every 5.0 headset I've seen so far also does not implement? Sigh. Bluetooth is 20 years old this year, and is still a fucking unmitigated trainwreck of unusabilty.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Indeed. And you ought to see the vomit the Bluetooth puts over the spectrum. "Noise resistance" my ass. It barely works even when in ideal situations (no wifi, no bt, no microwave ovens). BT can die in a fire.
morpheuskafka 8y ago
Interesting. On Windows 10, it shows a in/out "Headset (AirPods Hands-Free)" and an out only "Headphones (AirPods Audio)." So this transition would be very easy for the user to see. However, I've as yet been unable to get a straight answer on what profile the "Headphones" mode is actually using.
- DiabloD3 8y ago
  A2DP SBC. Apple products that implement AAC over A2DP only do so on iOS devices (and in only limited cases), and also do not implement anything else (such as any form of AptX, or LDAC).
  - crazysim 8y ago
    Oddly enough macOS supports AptX.
  - pilif 8y ago
    you can tell macOS to use AAC using an Apple tool called "Bluetooth Explorer". Also, Macs equipped with a T2 chip default to using AAC even without the manual intervention. You can check what codec is used by alt-clicking the bluetooth icon in your menu bar and hovering over your headphones. There will a an "Active Codec" entry that shows which one is used (during playback).

tedunangst 8y ago

A dozen comments that this happens because the microphone is turned on, but nobody is asking why vagrant is turning the microphone on?

Rjevski 8y ago
Vagrant is using VirtualBox under the hood, and presumably the default VB config is to let the VM use two-way audio, so it preemptively opens both the output and mic channel in case the VM needs it.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  I have so many questions, but will not ask them because I don't think I'll like the answers.
  - voltagex_ 8y ago
    THe answer is better defaults. Raise a bug report.
dcmorton 8y ago
My solution/fix for this was downgrading VirtualBox back to 5.2.18; seems like something in Virtualbox 5.2.20+ seems to initialize the mic when the VM is booting. Guessing is an unintentional change since there's nothing in the changelogs specifically calling it out. There's likely some fiddling with the VirtualBox VM settings to prevent it from occurring, but things like Test Kitchen in Chef destroy/create new VMs constantly so any changes get quickly lost.

iscrewyou 8y ago

This happens to me on Parallels 10. But it only happens for like 5 seconds. Then it jumps back to normal sounding experience. It’s Parallels 10 booting up a Windows 7 VM.

froboy 8y ago

I've seen the same issue, and (at least in my case) it seems to be from audio being enabled on the VM and that getting passed through by Virtual Box. Something like this for your own box should solve the root cause: https://github.com/palantirnet/the-vagrant/pull/60 https://github.com/palantirnet/the-vagrant/pull/60

fortyseven 8y ago

Discovers a secret "Vaporwave Mode", calls it a bug, not a feature. Heretic!

TipVFL 8y ago

I recently ran across similar issues while developing a web app, https://rap.coach https://rap.coach , that features simultaneous audio playback and recording. A lot of people are saying that Bluetooth headsets have to go into a super-low quality mode when both playback and recording are enabled, but based on my testing it appears to be a software issue. The issue appears when I use Rap Coach with Chrome on Android, but doesn't happen in Firefox on Android. It is very frustrating, getting better control over the audio hardware is one of the main reasons I'm going to end up building app store versions of this thing.

ex3ndr 8y ago

This happens for any bluetooth headphones on Mac. It usually means that mic was turned on.

mmgutz 8y ago

To be fair, I've seen this happen with all my bluetooth headsets not just AirPods. The issue eventually fixes itself after the VM guest boots into an OS.

ianlevesque 8y ago

Honestly coreaudiod is a hot mess. Every time I plug in a usb audio adapter it puts balance at 100% left channel and max volume. killall coreaudiod fixes it. I miss when Macs worked reliably.

bouke 8y ago
I’ve run into this issue since owning my first Mac, circa 7 years ago. So while I don’t agree with your over generalization, I do agree that this is very bad and should be fixed once and for all!

m0zg 8y ago

I figure the audience is right on this site, so here's my question: for someone used to pretty decent over the ear and in-ear headphones (Sennheiser, AKG, Etymotic), are AirPods passable at least, or total trash like Apple's wired earbuds? What's the quality differential? This is the thing I don't get about Apple. They sell $1.1K phone and include these crappy $3 earbuds in the box. Can they do better? At their production volumes and profit margins, I have no doubt. Even Samsung includes a decent pair of AKGs.

dawnerd 8y ago
They're about the same as the normal earbuds but still way better than 3 dollar earbuds. I use them not for the quality but for the convenience when making phonecalls. Unfortunately the battery life on them is abysmal two years later. Barely lasts 10 minutes after daily use.
- c1sc0 8y ago
  Never heard this before. Mine are 1yo with intensive use & easily still last hours. 2 years is a really short lifetime

cal97g 8y ago

Get a decent pair of headphones instead?

amelius 8y ago

Bluetooth works fine on my Linux desktop (ASUS mainboard) with Bluetooth dongle.