15 ms·

As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. When I walk into a ste

As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. When I walk into a steakhouse with my carnivorous wife, they're helping me out by finding something to put in my stomach. If I'm on a camping trip, I'm bringing my own food, or doing my best to make it fair to folks who are helping me out. And if I'm visiting for dinner, I try to make it clear that I'm happy to scavenge sides, you don't need to do something special for me. Because, again, my self-made diet choices are not your problem, but mine. Celiac is real, folks who have it should be cut a break, and in my experience, folks who actually cannot eat gluten are just trying to make things work, rather than being a dick about it. But deeply screw people like this lady who make a voluntary diet choice who use it as an excuse to bully others and make people cater to them. They trivialize people's actual medical needs, breed a culture of "Yeah, sure lady, there's no gluten", work against whatever cause they're in favor of, and largely, they're why we can't have nice things.

nradov 8y ago
One of my colleagues is a vegetarian. He went on a business trip to Texas and his associates took him out for dinner at a steak house. After reading the menu he asked the waitress, "Do you have anything that isn't meat?" She thought for a moment and cheerfully replied "We have chicken!"
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  lol she was right too!
  - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
    not sure why this was downvoted. i'm not native English speaker and would have assumed chicken is poultry not meat
    - laktak 8y ago
      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      "Meat" is the flesh of any animal. So poultry is just a type of meat; frogs legs, fish, octopus, worms, all "meat". Not sure about insects, but I think they'd be called "meat" too in culinary terms. (Native British-English user.)
      - thatcat 8y ago
        Yes, insects are meat. The kernel of a nut is called nut meat, even though it is not made from muscle fibers. I think the line is drawn at poultry and fish sometimes because the input costs are so much lower than mammalian meat. CO2 taxes would incentivize this sort of vegetarianism.
        pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        >The kernel of a nut is called nut meat, // It can be, but it's exceedingly rare IME. I'm trying to remember but can't quite, there are other non-flesh things someone referred to as meat too, after a similar line to your nut example. It's an analogy, you peel back the skin and underneath is the "flesh" (like a peach, or any fruit). You could say, when carving a pumpkin, "get right in to the meat of it", but it's euphemistic in this case. English language is crazy.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      In addition to what everyone has said about "poultry" being a subset of "meat", if you want to specify mammal flesh in English, you typically have to say "red meat". Of course, there are some who don't consider pork to be red meat, and round and round we go.
- themodelplumber 8y ago
  That is funny. I had a kind of opposite experience, when I was struggling with a bad reaction to gluten. My wife and I went to a burger joint in Utah called "Mooyah" where I ordered a burger on a gluten-free bun. As soon as those words left my mouth, the cashier asked, "allergy or preference?" Stunned and wondering if I was being criticized, I said "allergy" only to learn that if you say that, they have to clean all possible traces of gluten off of their equipment before they make your burger. "Allergy!" Then the action started. As I watched two employees vigorously wipe down all this stuff just to make one burger, I felt alternately shocked, amazed, well-served, and embarrassed. Others in the restaurant looked at me like I was from another planet. Anyway, that was one of the best gluten-free buns I've ever tasted.
  - throwmeback 8y ago
    That's amazingly considerate.
    - dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
      I think its legally required in many places. In others it is about not being sued. And for all kitchen staff it is fairly important not to poison people!
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      As a celiac, I wish it were more common. Celiac in the US shockingly misunderstood. The current gluten-free fad doesn't help. Of the places I've visited since being diagnosed, Italy was BY FAR the best for eating out while celiac. Rome has some of the best gluten-free pizza. Florence was no slouch. And if a restaurant is not comfortable serving you (small kitchen, impossible to clean properly, not trained, whatever), they'll tell you up front so you can go elsewhere.
      - CaptainZapp 8y ago
        The current gluten-free fad doesn't help. And that's exactly why this pisses me off so much. It massively hurts people like you, who really cannot tolerate certain food stuff.
- throwmeback 8y ago
  In a certain episode[1] of a Polish TV dating show, one of the contestants said their favourite fish is a fillet "because you can buy it anywhere". [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS3gsxAkBDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS3gsxAkBDk
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  Mildly relevant (and amusing) video on how to avoid this situation. :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orybDrUj4vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orybDrUj4vA
- etiennemarcel 8y ago
  In France, fish is often considered a valid vegetarian option.
  - junga 8y ago
    In my german 80‘s childhood I learned this too. Vegetarians don‘t eat mammal‘s meat but fish is okay. For whatever reason.
    - liotier 8y ago
      My teenage daughter's vegetarianism is about not knowingly eating cute animals - fishes are not cute enough for her. She'll happily eat meat-flavoured vegetables from dishes where cook and vegetables cook together. Whatever floats your boat - I'll respect that !
      - 317070 8y ago
        Here's the thing, in my opinion, that is the best attitude toward vegetarianism. One of the reasons we still slaughter so many animals, is that there is this misconception that for some reason, vegetarianism is an all or nothing type of thing. If our culture were more akin to, `I don't like meat like I don't like candy`, animal consumption would drop considerably. Both candy and meat are tasteful, but candy is bad for your body and therefore you will not have it every day. The other is bad for the planet (and your body too!). Yet, you should for some reason either eat it every day, or alternatively never at all.
      - quantum_magpie 8y ago
        Try giving her a lobster in shell. I as an adult got the opportunity to try Maine lobster; never again. The whole process felt like dissecting someone who I'd rather play with.
        justtopost 8y ago
        Prepared correctly that situation could be quite the ethical connundrum. I find bacon alone to have a nonzero effect on 'reforming' vegetarians. My personal rule is to avoid factory farmed meat. 100% effective when buying for home, but I admittedly compromise when eating out, but by asking each time I plant the seed I hope. I do, as an omnivore, think everyone should see, and take some part in, raising, and slaughtering livestock before it becomes a staple of your diet. Meat comes from animals that died for you, not the store. Respecting that has more impact than blanket-avoidance in my eyes.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> But deeply screw people like this lady who make a voluntary diet choice who use it as an excuse to bully others and make people cater to them. They trivialize people's actual medical needs, breed a culture of "Yeah, sure lady, there's no gluten", work against whatever cause they're in favor of, and largely, they're why we can't have nice things. You know, I can see where these people are coming from. As a picky eater, you quickly get the message that your existence is offensive and if you have any wisdom at all, you'll never eat in the company of others. Refusing to eat what someone else serves you just because you happen to hate it is an insult, and people frequently take offense. Is it easier to go through life with everyone constantly feeling that you're insulting them, or -- if you can pull it off -- that they're insulting you?
- krageon 8y ago
  I don't understand what your complaint is here. You do something that is considered rude in both of our cultures (as evidenced by how you say people respond to you), but you appear to be aggrieved in some way that this is the case.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    My complaint is the fact that not eating incredibly disgusting things is rude. Imagine being offered the following two choices: - Drink a glass of fresh-out-of-the-chicken blood. - Alienate all your coworkers. Is there some reason you wouldn't feel aggrieved at this?
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
your attitude is really nice and I wish more people who chose a specific diet voluntarily would behave this way. I've seen toxic behavior in my own family where a certain relative just does it for the attention. Makes me wonder why militant-(gluten|veganism|<insert other>) have to form groups, and then attract people with certain insecurities. I have no objections to such life-choices as long as the motive isn't to convert others. It feels more like a religion. When relatives complain, I eat cows and remind me how bad it is for the environment I usually point out that I don't drive, never buy anything wrapped in plastic, source my groceries from the local wet-market (which I can walk to) and never eat meat more than once a weak. And when I do I know where it comes from, and how it was raised. When I cook it it's almost like a celebration of the life the animal had. I often spend the whole evening before planning how to prepare it and don't plan much other activities that day because getting it perfect (and better than last time) is my own personal fetish. This year I worked with a guy who was actually Celiac and at first didn't know what that was. I thought "oh my not another one of those" ... Getting to know him better I found out what that entails and omg - this is one horrid condition to live with. It must be insulting to anyone who actually suffers from this seeing all these wannabe gluten intolerant pretenders. It ridicules those really suffering from the condition and makes them a laughing stock at their expense. A bit like those parents who seem hellbent on proving their child is somewhere on the Autistic spectrum - just to get a special treatment for their (very normal) kids (who simply need to get off the screen, spend more time outside in nature to drain their energy). something more lighthearted: (How to Become Gluten Intolerant) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798
- r_c_a_d 8y ago
  I was diagnosed celiac in 2004 and the recent arrival of "gluten intolerant pretenders" is something of a mixed blessing. On the one hand it has boosted the supply of gluten-free products (good for me) but on the other hand it has made me more self-conscious and aware that some people think I might just be fussy.
- j605 8y ago
  “wannabe gluten pretenders” are harmful to vegans as well. A lot of times I see gluten-free vegan food when I don't care about the gluten. It is like I am subsidising a fad although I am happy that people with actual allergies can now afford gluten free alternatives due to the fad.
seanwilson 8y ago
> As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. I think there's a huge difference between following a fad diet and following a diet that is based around your feelings of reducing animal cruelty and doing a small part to combat climate change. I would agree going to a steakhouse where you know the whole business is based around serving meat is creating issues, but especially nowadays I don't think vegetarians should have to consider themselves problems. If there was less peer pressure to eat meat and more meatless options people would find it easier to reduce meat consumption also.
- xupybd 8y ago
  But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options. You also can’t force societies values to change around you. I think the parent comment is more talking about accomodating the world around rather than expecting it to accomodate you.
  - seanwilson 8y ago
    > But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options. Forcing is a strong word, but if businesses and friends are more aware there's a demand for meat free alternatives, more options slowly become available until a tipping point is reached. There was a recent study that was saying beef consumption has to reduce by 90% to help avoid dangerous climate change (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-reduction-in-meat-eating-essential-to-avoid-climate-breakdown https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-red...) so I think we're well beyond the point where people that want to eat less meat should feel they're the ones causing a problem by voicing their preference.
    - grumpydba 8y ago
      Thing is, there is no healthy and easy alternative for meat.
      - seanwilson 8y ago
the-great-assyr 8y ago
CARNIVOROUS wife? Are you serious? Your wife is OMNIVOROUS, buddy... The deliberate misuse of words state a lot about yourself. And, generally speaking, about fanatics.
- jf- 8y ago
  Maybe she's actually an obligate predator, like a great white shark. Ever think about that? Such assumptions.
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
Er, from the article I got the impression the horrible lady actually was alergic to gluten. The author says to the Russian crew that she will not die if she eats bread, but she will get sick. I don't think people who chose not to eat gluten get sick from it, do they?
- trhway 8y ago
  the article seems to be really dismissive about that woman's food preference pretty much to the point that it feels as if she is presumed to be a "fraud" without a formal paperwork confirming the medical necessity. >I don't think people who chose not to eat gluten get sick from it, do they? it may as well be that people chose not to eat gluten because they get sick/discomforted to some degree (not necessary full blown celiac) and may be still be searching for the cause (say by the exclusion method) or have already noticed the correlation of the sickness with gluten. We don't know, and i'm not sure that anybody has the right to know as it is her private personal life details. Yet we, at least part of the society, press her to disclose whether she really has a medical condition by de-facto threatening to brand her as a "lady who make a voluntary diet choice" as the GP did. >No one has asked the crew if they have nut allergies, gluten sensitivity, hypertension, lactose intolerance, or any other kind of dietary restriction. Their culinary options are to stay home in Vladivostok earning nothing, or get on the ship and eat what they are given. Russia is a bad place to have medical issues. I have no idea how people with digestive issues or any other issues requiring things like special diets survived through the end of 198x - beginning of 199x back then in USSR and those first years after the collapse. I don't remember such people around ... i definitely didn't pay attention. I think it is a big blessing/achievement that in the West people have that option of following specific diets, be it a strict medical necessity, just a "fad" or something in-between. You never know when you may need that option yourself.
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    WRT Russians and celiac - I know celiac disease is far more common in western Europe than Asia. I'm not sure where Russia fits into this, being in the middle of the two. It's possible they simply don't encounter celiac at the same rate as in the US or western Europe.
rhn_mk1 8y ago
> As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. This sounds like a contradiction to me. You recognize that meat eating should not happen, so it's a problem, but in the same sentence you're backtracking and calling vegetarianism a problem. If you accept that eating meat is bad, then you're implicitly calling meat eaters a problem. Unless you consider that everyone, you should indemnify yourself. I would never call someone trying to do the right thing in a sea of those who don't a problem...
- verytrivial 8y ago
  I think you can read "problem" here as "practical inconvenience" without changing the argument.
- xelxebar 8y ago
  He recognizes vegetarianism as ethically good while also recognizing that pushing those personal ethics on others often results in a net bad. That's how I read it at least, and it sounds like a responsible way of handling personal values. That said, if we do want more people to be vegetarian, then instead of simply making minimal hassle for others, we could also take the opportunity to proactively educate in a caring manner. If we want a vegetarian world, then instead of scrounging for sides at a dinner party, we could redefine the party to be a collaborative cooking one, or we could try to do more potluck, or we could be more proactive about choosing the meal venue. Those options take extra effort and aren't even possible a lot of the time, so I feel like OP's non-aggressive stance is a really respectable default.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Not really, I recognise that using a car is a problem in terms of carbon emissions. If someone invites me on holiday, and I insist we all walk there, I am inconveniencing them even though I'm correct.
- wanderfowl 8y ago
  Nothing makes "I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain" carnivores faster than dickish vegans. And there's a difference between an ethical problem (killing and eating something morally relevant which would rather not be killed and eaten), and a social problem (violating the social norms of cooperation and causing complication).
black-tea 8y ago
How do you live with the fact that you're married to and directly supporting a carnivore?
- wanderfowl 8y ago
  If she decided to go full vegetarian tomorrow, I'd absolutely support it. But I love the rest of her enough to disagree on this point.
DanBC 8y ago
What makes you think she isn't coeliac?
- wanderfowl 8y ago
  It's an assumption, but in my experience, the celiac folks tend to be the "screw it, give me the hash browns" type, rather than starting a shouting match over their allotted gluten-free toast.
dzhiurgis 8y ago
I’ve read somewhere that celiac disease can cause psychosis to some people. Wasn’t able to find actual detils on it tho.

nradov 8y ago

One of my colleagues is a vegetarian. He went on a business trip to Texas and his associates took him out for dinner at a steak house. After reading the menu he asked the waitress, "Do you have anything that isn't meat?" She thought for a moment and cheerfully replied "We have chicken!"

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
lol she was right too!
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  not sure why this was downvoted. i'm not native English speaker and would have assumed chicken is poultry not meat
  - laktak 8y ago
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    "Meat" is the flesh of any animal. So poultry is just a type of meat; frogs legs, fish, octopus, worms, all "meat". Not sure about insects, but I think they'd be called "meat" too in culinary terms. (Native British-English user.)
    - thatcat 8y ago
      Yes, insects are meat. The kernel of a nut is called nut meat, even though it is not made from muscle fibers. I think the line is drawn at poultry and fish sometimes because the input costs are so much lower than mammalian meat. CO2 taxes would incentivize this sort of vegetarianism.
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        >The kernel of a nut is called nut meat, // It can be, but it's exceedingly rare IME. I'm trying to remember but can't quite, there are other non-flesh things someone referred to as meat too, after a similar line to your nut example. It's an analogy, you peel back the skin and underneath is the "flesh" (like a peach, or any fruit). You could say, when carving a pumpkin, "get right in to the meat of it", but it's euphemistic in this case. English language is crazy.
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    In addition to what everyone has said about "poultry" being a subset of "meat", if you want to specify mammal flesh in English, you typically have to say "red meat". Of course, there are some who don't consider pork to be red meat, and round and round we go.
themodelplumber 8y ago
That is funny. I had a kind of opposite experience, when I was struggling with a bad reaction to gluten. My wife and I went to a burger joint in Utah called "Mooyah" where I ordered a burger on a gluten-free bun. As soon as those words left my mouth, the cashier asked, "allergy or preference?" Stunned and wondering if I was being criticized, I said "allergy" only to learn that if you say that, they have to clean all possible traces of gluten off of their equipment before they make your burger. "Allergy!" Then the action started. As I watched two employees vigorously wipe down all this stuff just to make one burger, I felt alternately shocked, amazed, well-served, and embarrassed. Others in the restaurant looked at me like I was from another planet. Anyway, that was one of the best gluten-free buns I've ever tasted.
- throwmeback 8y ago
  That's amazingly considerate.
  - dbdjfjrjvebd 8y ago
    I think its legally required in many places. In others it is about not being sued. And for all kitchen staff it is fairly important not to poison people!
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    As a celiac, I wish it were more common. Celiac in the US shockingly misunderstood. The current gluten-free fad doesn't help. Of the places I've visited since being diagnosed, Italy was BY FAR the best for eating out while celiac. Rome has some of the best gluten-free pizza. Florence was no slouch. And if a restaurant is not comfortable serving you (small kitchen, impossible to clean properly, not trained, whatever), they'll tell you up front so you can go elsewhere.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      The current gluten-free fad doesn't help. And that's exactly why this pisses me off so much. It massively hurts people like you, who really cannot tolerate certain food stuff.
throwmeback 8y ago
In a certain episode[1] of a Polish TV dating show, one of the contestants said their favourite fish is a fillet "because you can buy it anywhere". [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS3gsxAkBDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS3gsxAkBDk
mehrdadn 8y ago
Mildly relevant (and amusing) video on how to avoid this situation. :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orybDrUj4vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orybDrUj4vA
etiennemarcel 8y ago
In France, fish is often considered a valid vegetarian option.
- junga 8y ago
  In my german 80‘s childhood I learned this too. Vegetarians don‘t eat mammal‘s meat but fish is okay. For whatever reason.
  - liotier 8y ago
    My teenage daughter's vegetarianism is about not knowingly eating cute animals - fishes are not cute enough for her. She'll happily eat meat-flavoured vegetables from dishes where cook and vegetables cook together. Whatever floats your boat - I'll respect that !
    - 317070 8y ago
      Here's the thing, in my opinion, that is the best attitude toward vegetarianism. One of the reasons we still slaughter so many animals, is that there is this misconception that for some reason, vegetarianism is an all or nothing type of thing. If our culture were more akin to, `I don't like meat like I don't like candy`, animal consumption would drop considerably. Both candy and meat are tasteful, but candy is bad for your body and therefore you will not have it every day. The other is bad for the planet (and your body too!). Yet, you should for some reason either eat it every day, or alternatively never at all.
    - quantum_magpie 8y ago
      Try giving her a lobster in shell. I as an adult got the opportunity to try Maine lobster; never again. The whole process felt like dissecting someone who I'd rather play with.
      - justtopost 8y ago
        Prepared correctly that situation could be quite the ethical connundrum. I find bacon alone to have a nonzero effect on 'reforming' vegetarians. My personal rule is to avoid factory farmed meat. 100% effective when buying for home, but I admittedly compromise when eating out, but by asking each time I plant the seed I hope. I do, as an omnivore, think everyone should see, and take some part in, raising, and slaughtering livestock before it becomes a staple of your diet. Meat comes from animals that died for you, not the store. Respecting that has more impact than blanket-avoidance in my eyes.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> But deeply screw people like this lady who make a voluntary diet choice who use it as an excuse to bully others and make people cater to them. They trivialize people's actual medical needs, breed a culture of "Yeah, sure lady, there's no gluten", work against whatever cause they're in favor of, and largely, they're why we can't have nice things. You know, I can see where these people are coming from. As a picky eater, you quickly get the message that your existence is offensive and if you have any wisdom at all, you'll never eat in the company of others. Refusing to eat what someone else serves you just because you happen to hate it is an insult, and people frequently take offense. Is it easier to go through life with everyone constantly feeling that you're insulting them, or -- if you can pull it off -- that they're insulting you?

krageon 8y ago
I don't understand what your complaint is here. You do something that is considered rude in both of our cultures (as evidenced by how you say people respond to you), but you appear to be aggrieved in some way that this is the case.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  My complaint is the fact that not eating incredibly disgusting things is rude. Imagine being offered the following two choices: - Drink a glass of fresh-out-of-the-chicken blood. - Alienate all your coworkers. Is there some reason you wouldn't feel aggrieved at this?

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago

your attitude is really nice and I wish more people who chose a specific diet voluntarily would behave this way. I've seen toxic behavior in my own family where a certain relative just does it for the attention. Makes me wonder why militant-(gluten|veganism|<insert other>) have to form groups, and then attract people with certain insecurities. I have no objections to such life-choices as long as the motive isn't to convert others. It feels more like a religion. When relatives complain, I eat cows and remind me how bad it is for the environment I usually point out that I don't drive, never buy anything wrapped in plastic, source my groceries from the local wet-market (which I can walk to) and never eat meat more than once a weak. And when I do I know where it comes from, and how it was raised. When I cook it it's almost like a celebration of the life the animal had. I often spend the whole evening before planning how to prepare it and don't plan much other activities that day because getting it perfect (and better than last time) is my own personal fetish. This year I worked with a guy who was actually Celiac and at first didn't know what that was. I thought "oh my not another one of those" ... Getting to know him better I found out what that entails and omg - this is one horrid condition to live with. It must be insulting to anyone who actually suffers from this seeing all these wannabe gluten intolerant pretenders. It ridicules those really suffering from the condition and makes them a laughing stock at their expense. A bit like those parents who seem hellbent on proving their child is somewhere on the Autistic spectrum - just to get a special treatment for their (very normal) kids (who simply need to get off the screen, spend more time outside in nature to drain their energy). something more lighthearted: (How to Become Gluten Intolerant) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798

r_c_a_d 8y ago
I was diagnosed celiac in 2004 and the recent arrival of "gluten intolerant pretenders" is something of a mixed blessing. On the one hand it has boosted the supply of gluten-free products (good for me) but on the other hand it has made me more self-conscious and aware that some people think I might just be fussy.
j605 8y ago
“wannabe gluten pretenders” are harmful to vegans as well. A lot of times I see gluten-free vegan food when I don't care about the gluten. It is like I am subsidising a fad although I am happy that people with actual allergies can now afford gluten free alternatives due to the fad.

seanwilson 8y ago

> As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. I think there's a huge difference between following a fad diet and following a diet that is based around your feelings of reducing animal cruelty and doing a small part to combat climate change. I would agree going to a steakhouse where you know the whole business is based around serving meat is creating issues, but especially nowadays I don't think vegetarians should have to consider themselves problems. If there was less peer pressure to eat meat and more meatless options people would find it easier to reduce meat consumption also.

xupybd 8y ago
But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options. You also can’t force societies values to change around you. I think the parent comment is more talking about accomodating the world around rather than expecting it to accomodate you.
- seanwilson 8y ago
  > But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options. Forcing is a strong word, but if businesses and friends are more aware there's a demand for meat free alternatives, more options slowly become available until a tipping point is reached. There was a recent study that was saying beef consumption has to reduce by 90% to help avoid dangerous climate change (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-reduction-in-meat-eating-essential-to-avoid-climate-breakdown https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-red...) so I think we're well beyond the point where people that want to eat less meat should feel they're the ones causing a problem by voicing their preference.
  - grumpydba 8y ago
    Thing is, there is no healthy and easy alternative for meat.
    - seanwilson 8y ago

the-great-assyr 8y ago

CARNIVOROUS wife? Are you serious? Your wife is OMNIVOROUS, buddy... The deliberate misuse of words state a lot about yourself. And, generally speaking, about fanatics.

jf- 8y ago
Maybe she's actually an obligate predator, like a great white shark. Ever think about that? Such assumptions.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

Er, from the article I got the impression the horrible lady actually was alergic to gluten. The author says to the Russian crew that she will not die if she eats bread, but she will get sick. I don't think people who chose not to eat gluten get sick from it, do they?

trhway 8y ago
the article seems to be really dismissive about that woman's food preference pretty much to the point that it feels as if she is presumed to be a "fraud" without a formal paperwork confirming the medical necessity. >I don't think people who chose not to eat gluten get sick from it, do they? it may as well be that people chose not to eat gluten because they get sick/discomforted to some degree (not necessary full blown celiac) and may be still be searching for the cause (say by the exclusion method) or have already noticed the correlation of the sickness with gluten. We don't know, and i'm not sure that anybody has the right to know as it is her private personal life details. Yet we, at least part of the society, press her to disclose whether she really has a medical condition by de-facto threatening to brand her as a "lady who make a voluntary diet choice" as the GP did. >No one has asked the crew if they have nut allergies, gluten sensitivity, hypertension, lactose intolerance, or any other kind of dietary restriction. Their culinary options are to stay home in Vladivostok earning nothing, or get on the ship and eat what they are given. Russia is a bad place to have medical issues. I have no idea how people with digestive issues or any other issues requiring things like special diets survived through the end of 198x - beginning of 199x back then in USSR and those first years after the collapse. I don't remember such people around ... i definitely didn't pay attention. I think it is a big blessing/achievement that in the West people have that option of following specific diets, be it a strict medical necessity, just a "fad" or something in-between. You never know when you may need that option yourself.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  WRT Russians and celiac - I know celiac disease is far more common in western Europe than Asia. I'm not sure where Russia fits into this, being in the middle of the two. It's possible they simply don't encounter celiac at the same rate as in the US or western Europe.

rhn_mk1 8y ago

> As a vegetarian (by ethical choice, not medical necessity), I do my best not to lose sight of the simple fact that I'm the problem here. This sounds like a contradiction to me. You recognize that meat eating should not happen, so it's a problem, but in the same sentence you're backtracking and calling vegetarianism a problem. If you accept that eating meat is bad, then you're implicitly calling meat eaters a problem. Unless you consider that everyone, you should indemnify yourself. I would never call someone trying to do the right thing in a sea of those who don't a problem...

verytrivial 8y ago
I think you can read "problem" here as "practical inconvenience" without changing the argument.
xelxebar 8y ago
He recognizes vegetarianism as ethically good while also recognizing that pushing those personal ethics on others often results in a net bad. That's how I read it at least, and it sounds like a responsible way of handling personal values. That said, if we do want more people to be vegetarian, then instead of simply making minimal hassle for others, we could also take the opportunity to proactively educate in a caring manner. If we want a vegetarian world, then instead of scrounging for sides at a dinner party, we could redefine the party to be a collaborative cooking one, or we could try to do more potluck, or we could be more proactive about choosing the meal venue. Those options take extra effort and aren't even possible a lot of the time, so I feel like OP's non-aggressive stance is a really respectable default.
Angostura 8y ago
Not really, I recognise that using a car is a problem in terms of carbon emissions. If someone invites me on holiday, and I insist we all walk there, I am inconveniencing them even though I'm correct.
wanderfowl 8y ago
Nothing makes "I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain" carnivores faster than dickish vegans. And there's a difference between an ethical problem (killing and eating something morally relevant which would rather not be killed and eaten), and a social problem (violating the social norms of cooperation and causing complication).

black-tea 8y ago

How do you live with the fact that you're married to and directly supporting a carnivore?

wanderfowl 8y ago
If she decided to go full vegetarian tomorrow, I'd absolutely support it. But I love the rest of her enough to disagree on this point.

DanBC 8y ago

What makes you think she isn't coeliac?

wanderfowl 8y ago
It's an assumption, but in my experience, the celiac folks tend to be the "screw it, give me the hash browns" type, rather than starting a shouting match over their allotted gluten-free toast.

dzhiurgis 8y ago

I’ve read somewhere that celiac disease can cause psychosis to some people. Wasn’t able to find actual detils on it tho.