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Snowboarding for Geeks

299 points by lubos76 8y ago

mathnmusic 8y ago
This is the kind of content I come to HN for. :)
ultrasounder 8y ago
+1. Always wanted to learn to Ski not having been exposed to snow early on but was told that Snowboarding is easier than Skiing for absolute beginners. Perhaps this time i can actually get some proper lessons. Timing couldn't be perfect!. Thanks.
- clmckinley 8y ago
  My experience has been the opposite. Skiing is easier at slow speeds and has a shorter learning curve, but takes a lot longer to get good. Snow boarding has a higher learning curve and is harder at slow speeds, but once it clicks you can do most anything on the mountain in a couple of days. Skiing was intuitive and my body wanted to do enough of the right thing to get me down most of the beginner slope with little "learning". Snowboarding felt unnatural so i had to fight my bodies natural instincts. The trick with snowboarding is to go faster than feels comfortable at first because it is much easier when you have momentum.
  - dominotw 8y ago
    > way you have to lean with snowboarding felt unnatural so i had to fight my bodies natural instincts. I had the same feeling with skiing. 1. Lean forward to stop and get control when ur instinct is to lean back to stop the glide. 2. lean on the opposite side of where you want to go, you want to lean in the same direction. etc
- stephen_g 8y ago
  I don’t think it actually is easier, from my experience based on learning years ago on a school trip, where a lot of people skied and about a dozen of us boarded. It seemed that the beginner skiers were able to navigate more of the resort faster than us boarders over the first two or so days. But after about three days with a lesson in the morning and riding on our own all afternoon, the difference had pretty much disappeared, and the more adventurous of us of either type were doing intermediate difficulty runs pretty easily. So apart from the first couple of days, I don’t think it really makes that much difference. The biggest difference to me, I have to admit, is that once you get the hang of it, snowboarding feels cooler and more fun than skiing looks (to me), but I’m sure skiing is a lot of fun too (especially if you want to go very fast, which is a lot easier on skis)! But for the first day or two of boarding, you spend a lot of time on your butt and falling over!
- jasode 8y ago
  >but was told that Snowboarding is easier than Skiing for absolute beginners. I think the "easier" depends on the target skill level. Skiiing is easier to achieve a beginner skill level. Absolute beginners can point their toes inward and ski "pizza wedges" down easy hills rated as "green" within a few hours. Indeed, many skiiers including adults never leave this stage. But upgrading the skills to intermediate level requires changing the technique to shift the body weight to the edges of the skis. This shift can take weeks. Snowboarding learning curve is the opposite. It's harder to get going as a beginner because you must balance on alternating edges of the board to even make the simplest basic turns. But the payoff is that you can graduate to intermediate and advanced slopes (the blues and black rated trails) much faster.
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    Would you say knowing how to skateboard makes snowboarding easier? I'm planning on trying one of these this winter for the first time and I'm hoping some biking/skateboarding balance transfers over.
    - leetrout 8y ago
      The way you lean to carve and drive with your feet and let your body follow is very much like long boarding IMO. I never skated on a regular board but I'd say yes you will have it easier.
    - aplc0r 8y ago
      When I first tried snowboarding after skateboarding for many years, the hardest part to get used to was being strapped into the board. I instinctively wanted to adjust the position of my feet and run out of falls.
    - jasode 8y ago
      In my unscientific opinion, I think there is some skills overlap with skateboarding, surfing, and snowboarding. They all put your body at a 90 degree angle to the direction you're heading and you have to adjust your center of gravity over the board to turn. So it's very possible your skateboarding skills will help you learn faster than people who don't surf and skateboard.
- superhuzza 8y ago
  Just a warning, snowboarding is traditionally considered more difficult for beginners than skiing. This is mostly because your legs are in fixed positions, so you have fewer independent points of contact with the ground (so balance is worse).
  - DBYCZ 8y ago
    It's way easier for a beginner to crash on a snowboard than on skis. The difference is that it's way easier to crash really hard on skis than it is on a board. Once you catch an edge or slide out on a board, you're on the ground. I've seen skiers fall back on to their skis and rocket down the hill uncontrolled.
- yodsanklai 8y ago
  I used to be a snowboarding instructor (I don't ski though). I'd say you can quickly be able to go on all kind of slopes. Beginner/intermediate skiers tend to have a harder time in powder or steep slopes. However, snowboarding beginners tend to fall much more often, the first days can be very tiring. I'd recommend avoiding learning on hard snow. If you can, make sure you you go in the mountain when the snow is fresh. And much much better to have an instructor.
- arethuza 8y ago
  You might want to consider where you'll be learning - if the area has a lot of drag lifts then they can be miserable for snowboarders.
- hnal943 8y ago
  I skied for 15 years before I learned to snowboard. I have never fallen so hard as when I was first learning to snowboard! The other downside is not being able to traverse flat terrain, which is more or less important depending on the resort you are at.
- lui8906 8y ago
  A general rule of thumb I've heard many times is: 'Skiing is easy to learn but hard to master, Snowboarding is hard to learn but easier to master'. You're likely to fall over more learning to snowboard but will become competent and able to carve down the mountain faster. Other elements to consider, Skiers are usually able to go faster than snowboarders down the hill. Snowboarders will have to unstrap and strap into their back binding when entering and exiting the chairlifts. Snowboarders have many more easy trick options available. I know hardly any skiers that can do any tricks, most of my competent snowboarding friends are able to at least do small jumps of sidehits (mounds of snow on the sides of the slope). I'm a passionate snowboarder and cannot recommend the sport highly enough, there is just no feeling like riding down fresh powder snow on a cool winters morning!
  - volkl48 8y ago
    I'll note that skiers seem have a much easier time learning to handle difficult terrain/higher typical skill cap in that area. I don't see many boarders who can handle mogul fields without looking miserable. Likewise, when you've got some vertical ice skating going on a double diamond, the skiers usually have a much easier time maintaining control (two edges and all that). I'll also note that a flat traverse is way more miserable for a boarder, skiers can "skate" along. All depends on what you want to do any your interests. Either way, it's a great hobby.
    - altec3 8y ago
      I think the reason moguls suck for snowboarders is because they're traditionally made from skiers carving.
      - beezle 8y ago
        more specifically, from bad skiers not carving.
    - beezle 8y ago
      Most of the boarders complaining about flats do so because they never wax their boards. If you regularly wax with the right stuff you'll be able to fly by skiers on all but the stickiest of spring crud. And when I say waxing, I mean doing it yourself. Too many shops do really inferior work. If you must use a shop, keep a small structure brush with you. A credit card can be used in a pinch as a scraper. The bane of speed is wax left on the board.
- mylons 8y ago
  on skis, it's very possible to go down a blue confidently on day 1. on a snowboard, that's very unlikely.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    I know people who have skied for years and aren't confident enough to do that.
    - mylons 8y ago
      ok. it doesn't mean it's not very possible
- jasonkester 8y ago
  Snowboarding is faster to pick up because the approach you take to the sport is different than for skiing. Skiing is all about not falling. Falling on skis is no fun and results in having to walk up the slope to find your skis. After your first season, you'll often go entire years with only a fall or two. And those hurt, so you avoid them. Snowboarding is a sport where you fall all the time, even as an expert. There are no consequences to doing so, apart from maybe picking your hat up, so the best plan is to simply go for it and see what happens. If you bite it, you bounce back up before you even come to a complete stop and keep going. Naturally, it hurts a lot the first season. But you get good fast. I skied for like 10 years before picking up snowboarding. And I was better at snowboarding within the first season.
  - robnagler 8y ago
    I disagree there are no consequences. Broken ribs have been known to occur.[0] [0] https://www.viarob.com/my/page/Snowtorturing https://www.viarob.com/my/page/Snowtorturing
- mattnewport 8y ago
  This may be true if you're in pretty good shape and have pretty good balance. If you're not fitter than an average 20 something I think skiing is probably easier as a beginner.
- drblast 8y ago
  Snowboarding is the best, but whoever told you that is steering you wrong. Skiing is much easier to learn. Lessons will definitely help shorten the learning time but be prepared for your first 3-5 days to be a painful experience if you're snowboarding. If you only go 3-5 days a season you're probably going to have a much better time on skiis.
dominotw 8y ago
Is there an equivalent for skiing?
- jonkiddy 8y ago
  If you fine one, I'm very interested. Please share. This article has great content! But at best I'm amateur skier not a snowboarder.
  - phillc73 8y ago
    There is so much to geek out on with skiing, probably much like anything new. A few years ago I moved to Austria. Last year my young son wanted to start skiing, so in my mid-40s I'm also learning. The amount of time I researched which skis and boots to buy would easily be above 40 hours. Then searching the Internet for the best bargains again added more time. Pretty much after just one season, I'm now into waxing my own skis. Another total geek activity. So many different waxes for different conditions. Then watching the weather and trying to figure out where the best snow will be for next weekend, that has to qualify as geek.
dep_b 8y ago
Riding hardboots since the 90's. Lots of gear tweakers in that scene. People treating their clothing with certain kinds of stuff they treat sails with to not rip them to shreds when doing continuous laid down linked turns, boots modifications for extra flexibility, experimenting with all kinds of shapes and materials and hours and hours of talk about edge pressure. I tried Driver X boots for example. Way to rigid compared to the forward flex of my hardboots!
- 24gttghh 8y ago
  I ride in the trees a lot and crash through dead branches regularly to find those lines that others miss. What kind of treatment are we talking here? All I can find is stuff like 3M seamtape, or sewing on more material in high-abrasion spots.
  - iAm25626 8y ago
    i used Plasti Dip spray. Multiple layers. Not sure it will work with dead branches. http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/44584-shredding-jacket-arms/?tab=comments#comment-451653 http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/44584-shredding-ja...
  - dep_b 8y ago
    https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/ https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/ People use Sika 252 or Covergom I think. Use it for gloves and your hips, mine wear out like crazy on frozen groomers.
- iAm25626 8y ago
  Fellow hardbooter here. Talk about when world collides. I know the guy in the Photo(hardboot). Yes there are tons of tinker-bell: it's not my lack of skill it's the equipment not "optimized" for the condition.
  - jpwgarrison 8y ago
    Me three! I can't imagine going back to soft boots. The initial cost is more but boots and bindings last far longer.
rbreve 8y ago
Wear a helmet! I had some nasty falls learning!
- mdn0420 8y ago
  Absolutely. Concussions are a very real thing and it’s definitely not worth any serious injuries. The better you get, the harder the falls will be.
  - werdnapk 8y ago
    When you're learning, you'll catch an edge quite often and you'll fall fast and hard... a helmet is a must. If I didn't have one, I'd probably have been in the hospital at least a few times. :)
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I also had them, include a nasty shoulder one. So not only helmet but other stuff as well, like those spine protection jackets.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    So basically motorcycle gear?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      When you crash with your body against someone else or the nature going at 60+ KM/H there is hardly any difference.
      - postsantum 8y ago
        Exactly. When I plowed into a tree trunk, I had my board broken in half and speed wasn't even close to 60. Scary to think that it might have been my spine
- JeremyBanks 8y ago
tribeofone 8y ago
My 2 cents for beginners, most of these are covered in the article: 1. Get a flying-v or CamRock - makes turning easier and will hold an edge better until you figure out how to carve. 2. Don't put your feet perpendicular to the board, you want some angle, 30° Front, 15° Back. It will make it easier to square your shoulders down the hill and get your weight on the front of your edge. 3. Start on a Blue slope. Seriously. I hate seeing beginners exhausting themselves on green slopes straining to get enough speed to get on edge and then catching the opposite edge because there is not enough slope.
- chrisfinne 8y ago
  Start on a Blue slop IF the conditions are good, i.e. you can dig your edge into the snow at least an inch. If the conditions are not good, i.e. hard-pack or icy, then put the board away. Trying to learn in poor conditions is counterproductive and very painful on your ass, wrists and head.
  - kemiller2002 8y ago
    I live in the Midwest U.S., those are the only conditions we have. :) (You're still right. It sucks and is painful, but it's all us non-mountain people have).
    - dgzl 8y ago
      You also don't have any mountains. - someone who just moved back to the PNW from Michigan and Illinois.
      - ashtonbaker 8y ago
        The UP has some interesting stuff, but living in Ann Arbor, it's a shorter trip just to get on a plane and go to Utah.
- calmnature1 8y ago
  Yes. All correct info.
bendixso 8y ago
Some of the geekiest people I know have become the best skiers/snowboarders on the mountain. I know a guy who used to regularly show up to the terrain park and do double frontflips over 60 foot jumps. He's got a PHD in physics now. I know another guy who used to compete in big air competitions. Senior iOS developer. My friend Brian does double cork 10s. Medical doctor. This sport is for nerds. If you're nerdy, you have an even greater chance of being successful at it because you know how to focus on getting great at something.
- sakopov 8y ago
  I do a lot of expedition-style backpacking either alone or in a guided group. The groups are always full of tech people, mostly from SV. It's almost like the only people who can afford fun shit are the techies.
  - mtnGoat 8y ago
    could it be they are the only ones that can afford $600 per day guided trips? MDs and tech nerds are well paid.
    - sakopov 8y ago
      Nah, It's not even that much. $600 will get you a very good, 3 or 4-day guided trip to the backcountry in Oregon and Washington. You'd be hauling your gear, food and skies/snowshoes. I do think that techies can easily afford this stuff, but I also think what's more important is they can afford to take a lot of time off work (or just leave their jobs all together knowing they'll find another gig fairly quickly) to enjoy things like this.
  - marmshallow 8y ago
    Are these all in Northern California?
    - illegalsmile 8y ago
      Not at all. There are high end touring and backpacking, i.e. full service guided hut/cat/heli drops and hut to hut style, all over the world in or near most major ski destinations. Most people I know who can afford to do these trips is within the STEM group or independently wealthy. Or they're younger with no overhead and they dirtbag it for a awhile to save up but this is the minority.
pjmlp 8y ago
I got my passion for snowboard with 26. I got to get myself busy somehow during Winter time on the Swiss/French Alps. However nowadays I seldom do it, as I fear to suffer a 2nd injury and recovery from the first one wasn't that fun.
figers 8y ago
Wish they had the same article for skiing!
calmnature1 8y ago
TL;DR As a former instructor and full-time programmer: 1 Get a lesson. Keep your knees bent, lead your turns with your arm and front knee. 2 Blues are easier to learn on then greens because the pitch helps you stay up. I have gotten overweight / out of shape older guys from LA, that have never even seen snow, to be confident riders in a day using this trick and the 'falling leaf' method. 3 The first two days will be painful generally, stick with it because once it 'clicks' you will have so much fun!
- beezle 8y ago
  I'm not a certified instructor but have taken out many a novice the past 20 years. I'm not fond of the 'lead with your arm' point as I've seen way too many beginners with arms flopping all over the place and instead prefer arms and hands kept quietly at the sides. If they get into high speed or euro-style carving, then yes arm positioning is more in play.
chrisfinne 8y ago
I grew up waterskiing, so when I moved to the mountains, I thought I'd pick up snow skiing easily. I did o.k., but after a few years I still hadn't gotten that "flow". After a few years of skiing, I tried boarding and got "flow" the second day when there was 12 inches of fresh pow, even though I still sucked at it. Immediately switched and haven't looked back. Several years later, it dawned on me that waterskiing is done on a single ski, so it is much closer to snowboarding. Your feet are just at a different angle. Seems obvious in hindsight.
- paulcole 8y ago
  > it dawned on me that waterskiing is done on a single ski Isn't waterskiing on a single ski called wakeboarding? Where I grew up in Florida plenty of people waterskiied on 2 skis.
  - chrisfinne 8y ago
    You learn on 2, then move to 1 aka slalom as you have far more manuverability. Wakeboards and skurfers (if those are still around) are wider than a slalom ski and don't have both feet facing forward. They are closer to a snowboard. But I find the most fun behind a boat is on a regular surfboard.
  - schwap 8y ago
    There are single (slalom) water skis, they are different from wakeboards.
sudosteph 8y ago
Snowboarding absolutely is as fun as it looks, but don't underestimate how much it's going to hurt the day after. I've gone nearly a dozen times and I still end up bruised by the end of the day. Admittedly, I'm a bit clumsier than most, but I've never collided with another human being at least. Also, I was surprised that the article didn't mention the one aspect that I actually found way harder than anything else to learn do reliably: going from sitting to standing on the board with your feet strapped in is HARD. I thought it was something I'd be able to learn through technique since I'm mostly in shape from a cardio perspective, but I just don't have the core strength to get up the proper way. While I absolutely could never once manage to get up with my heels dug into the snow, I can easily get up from my toes. It sort of stinks though because I'm never facing downhill when I first get up, so I can't really see great downhill, but at least I know when people are coming behind me. The obvious solution to the standing problem is just to fall less, but I haven't quite figured that out. So instead I've tried to do more lunges when I exercise. Probably won't be enough though.
- ambicapter 8y ago
  Its "easier" when you bring your hips real low, isn't it? The downside is you need more balance to not tip over entirely.
  - fhbdukfrh 8y ago
    It's also easier on a steeper slope. Kind of counter intuitive but similar it's easier weight a bit of speed,... until you find yourself floating and catch an edge
  - sudosteph 8y ago
    Sometimes when I try it earlier in the day, I am able to get up if I keep my hips real low and give myself a good push against the snow behind me, then I can go from a low crouch to standing while the board starts to go in motion. But as soon as I get a bit fatigued, I just lose balance and fall as soon as my butt leaves the snow. I still have never managed it by myself with my heels properly dug in so that I don't slide around while standing.
- 8y ago
Yizahi 8y ago
As a skier who only took a beginning level instructor and then learned by myself for multiple seasons - take as many instructor hours as you can, even if can already ride down black slopes. Seriously, last year I took an advanced instructor and it was a revelation. Take instructor even when you think you don't need him and don't listen to your friends joking about it.
- Spearchucker 8y ago
  Interesting. Been skiing since I was 3 (so my father tells me), and learnt to snowboard 20 years ago when I was 30. I went into a shop in the Austrian Alps (St. Johann am Pongau), hired a board and boots, found myself an instructor and had an hours' 1:1 lesson. Never had another instructor since but got to teach three people to 'board on Mount Baker, WA. But for about 2 years now I've been wondering what I don't yet know that an instructor night teach me. So I'm going to get me an instructor when I next go in Jan.
  - mattnewport 8y ago
    I've been snowboarding for over 20 years and skied for 10 years before that. I live near Whistler, did a season there and average over 20 days riding a season. I still take lessons when I get a chance and always get value out of them.
  - Yizahi 8y ago
    As a skier I discovered that while I could ride down red slopes and struggle down black slopes I did almost everything wrong. Wrong upper body position, wrong body movement in turns, wrong weight balance in turns, wrong pressure application on the ski, etc. We did some exercises with impairments too - no hand movement or with open boot bindings to understand certain things and it really did help.
  - adrr 8y ago
    Ski instructor on a powder day is a blast. You get to cut the lines and get fresh tracks. Also if you sign up for small group advanced lessons, you're usually the only person in the group so its like a private instructor for half the price.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
Snowboarding is an ass-buster. Someone needs to invent an air bag for the rear.
- kemiller2002 8y ago
  They have them actually. Well, not the air bag, but they have pants with padding. My friend cracked his tailbone riding, and I said, "screw that" and spent the money on Demon FlexForce pants. Best money I ever spent (well outside of the helmet).
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Yes! an ass-helmet.
- Arubis 8y ago
  If you’re feeling frugal and not particularly proud, you can cut to fit one of those foam rubber sleeping pads that folks use for camping when they don’t want to swing for a Thermarest, and tape the cuts into the rear and knees of your snow pants. It doesn’t look great, but it looks a heck of a lot better than bruising.
- mtnGoat 8y ago
  just learn to ride, then you wont have this problem. As an advanced snowboarder i can go all day without touching but to snow, without problem.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    That requires a learning process.
- tim333 8y ago
  It is for beginners - you get over that. Learning how to fall by kind of sitting helps. When I lived in Chamonix a lot of the enthusiast boarders had fractured spines - now there's one to avoid. Mostly from going over cliff like drops by error, off piste.
gnicholas 8y ago
Playing a snowboarding video game — after having gone snowboarding once — was very helpful for me. Seeing how the avatar lifted the edges of his board while turning helped me understand what I’d been doing wrong and made me a much better snowboarder the second time around. Watching YouTube videos would probably serve a similar purpose, but the interactivity of the game made it especially useful for me (besides, YouTube didn’t exist when I learned in the late 90s). For the record, I played 1080 Snowboarding on the Dreamcast, may it rest in peace. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080%C2%B0_Snowboarding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080%C2%B0_Snowboarding
- leoalves 8y ago
  Last year I bought a copy of Steep for my son (he was 7). First day in our Christmas vacation, he thought he could to a 360, just like in the video game, he landed on his nose. We stayed for a week in the resort watching snowboard on youtube. :)
kenneth 8y ago
This is a great in-depth guide. I wonder if there's anything like it for skiing. I'm a life-long skier and about the only thing that seems appealing about snowboards to me is the more comfortable boots.
danr4 8y ago
If you're a snowboard romantic, I HIGHLY suggest listening to the "How I built this" podcast episode with Jake Burton, the founder of Burton snowboards. It's an incredibly moving and honest look at the beginnings of the sport.
- Phenomenit 8y ago
  Jake Carpenter according to apple podcast app.
  - krschultz 8y ago
    For context his full name is Jake Burton Carpenter, the company is his middle name.
- beezle 8y ago
  Get or rent a copy of "Lines" It is a board flick about making board flicks but has a ton of historical footage and interviews in there. And any of the early Ticket to Ride's. Burton deserves many kudos but there are/were a lot of others who did as much to advance the sport. Few have the longevity and balls of Jeremy Jones and it really hurt losing Craig Kelly as just two examples.
chair6 8y ago
I started skiing as a kid, switched to snowboarding as a teenager, then started skiing again now in my mid-30s. Picking up skiing again after ~20 years was a lot of fun; nice to feel like I'm learning something new again but still know how snow feels and mountains work. From my own experience, and watching a number of other friends, the first 2-3 days of skiing is easier than the first 2-3 days of snowboarding. These days I'll happily ski/board most places on most mountains (in-resort, at least) but if I'm getting into technical terrain will vastly prefer a snowboard.. much quicker recovery time if you fall, often you can just bounce back up w/out fully stopping. I'd argue that snowboards are more fun in the pow as well.. skis are great for the hard-and-fast groomer days! If you're a nerd, and you like skiing / boarding, then check out ski touring / splitboarding. Add backcountry travel, navigation, skin track setting, & most importantly avalanche / snow safety, and you've got a sport that is almost endless in terms of things to learn & keep in mind while you're out and about. And it's excellent exercise while you're at it!
woolvalley 8y ago
I've found snowboarding sucks compared to skiing if your skiing in somewhat consistently icey conditions like we have here at Tahoe. Getting kneepads definitely made it less painful, since it's easy to trip over your toe edge onto your knees when you turn into a groove on ice.
- acconrad 8y ago
  > I've found snowboarding sucks compared to skiing if your skiing in somewhat consistently icey conditions You should try New England :) I'd add that skiing is superior if you're doing a lot of backcountry traversing as well. The only remedy is to either learn to ski or get a split board (which will set you back $800+).
  - Analog24 8y ago
    While I agree that backcountry travel, in general, is easier on skis you're going to shell out more money for an AT ski setup then you will for a splitboard.
acconrad 8y ago
I never thought I'd see a fusion of these two, but I am so happy it's here! Snowboarding has been my connection with nature since I was a kid. When I finished my Eagle Scout project and moved to the city, I was left with this hole for nature that needed to be filled. Now as an adult living in a city, my reconnection with nature is through snowboarding. Once I started riding deep powder in Canada, Japan, and Europe, my life changed. There are few things in my life more awe-inspiring than a fresh pow day and untouched trails. And until you've experienced it, it's very difficult to describe that feeling you get when touching nature in a way few experience. My grandfather skied until he was 89. I hope to make it that far as well. ALSO, my first job was working in a ski shop as a kid. And I totally geek out about snowboarding gear, so I'm happy to make recommendations to anyone here looking for board/boots/bindings/accessories/clothing gear/backcountry items/etc. If you do decide to head into the backcountry, take an AIARE level 1 avalanche course, and be sure to buy a pole, shovel, and transponder: http://aiare.info/providers_list.php http://aiare.info/providers_list.php FINALLY, tips after reading through the whole beginner recommendation chart: * TAKE LESSONS. LOTS OF THEM. They may be expensive, but an immersive 2/3 day lesson plan will rapidly accelerate your learning. The less you know, the more you fall. The more days you fall, the more pain you're in. Save your ass (literally) and just take as many lessons as you can afford until you're linking turns and carving down the mountain. Then take more :) * GEARTRADE.COM - This site looks like it was made in 2002 but they have the best deals. A lot of the Backcountry.com returns get sent here, so it's basically like-new quality for a fraction of the cost. * For a board, get a true twin. If I could go back and learn all over again, I'd learn switch as quickly as I learned regular. A twin board helps immensely. * Boots matter probably even more than the board and bindings. If you're gonna drop cash, drop them here and in the clothes so you stay warm/dry. * DO NOT GET STEP-IN BINDINGS. Even the 2nd gen of Burton step-ins are improved, but people still have problems with them. The ease you get (even with the Flow bindings) doesn't make up for the lack of contact/feel you get with traditional bindings. The analogy I think of is like a Tesla - yeah you could get autonomous driving capabilities, but it's just not there yet. Save your money and wait a few more years before putting all of your faith in this system. * It's easy to get caught up in the Burton hype. Burton is a very holistic company in that they can get you a board/boots/bindings/clothes. And they're not a bad company. It's just that there are also a lot of other great companies that make stuff as well. * Get bib pants. Even if you aren't riding pow in the backcountry, trust me. Bibs provide more freedom of movement, you never have to worry about bringing a belt or it snapping/breaking on a ride, and even if you're on a trail and you eat it, you could still get snow up your back. * DON'T OVERSPEND ON GLOVES. Someone will try and justify Gore Tex Hestras to you. Just pick up KINCO 901 SKI MITTENS. There's a reason every ski patrol and service person wears them. They're cheap (<$20), durable as hell, and can be waterproofed with bee's wax in about 1 hour. * Don't wear cotton. Always prefer poly base layers and down/fleece mid layers. They can be had for very cheap at the basement outlet stores (TJMaxx, Marshalls, etc). * On that note, YMMV but if you layer properly, you basically have 0 need for an insulated jacket. That saves you money to spend higher on outer layers that focus on waterproofing. Plus you can use that uninsulated shell as a rain jacket in the sprint/summer. * Goggles are another thing to spend up on. The last thing you want is compromised vision. Get goggles that have interchangeable lenses (I prefer the Electric EG3 for super wide visibility and easy/cheap interchangeable lenses). GET 1 FOR CLOUDY/DARK AND 1 FOR SUNNY/BRIGHT. Don't worry about mirrored lenses; if you can afford to spend up on polarized it will help in bright conditions, but for cloudy it won't matter, though generally yellow is considered the best lens color for dark conditions (superior to amber and rose). * I highly recommend the YouTube subscriptions mentioned. SnowboardProCamp and Snowboarding Addiction are awesome instructional videos. Ryan Knapton has the best buttering technique as I've ever seen. * Yes, buttering is a thing. And it's awesome.
searine 8y ago
I have snowboarded for 20 years. Wear a helmet. Seriously WEAR A HELMET.
- beezle 8y ago
  Its funny but the way I tell western riders is they rarely wear helmets.
ken 8y ago
I like seeing guides like this for newcomers. It's pretty funny, though, to see Architecture Astronauts try to find similarities between any two activities, no matter how different: "__ can resonate with the geek inside us because it has gadgets, it requires systematic approach to our own progress and it provides a lot of satisfaction and fun we typically find in the creative process." Is there any human endeavor which could not fill the blank here?
e-m-p 8y ago
This is an awesome guide!
aaronmu 8y ago
Yes! Go snowboarding! You'll never be as good as the guys in the videos but you'll definitely be able to feel what they feel! Super fun!
booleanbetrayal 8y ago
Would be nice to be able to get my carve somewhat close to Knapton's at some point in my existence.
ratsimihah 8y ago
How it is targeting geeks in particular?
fitzroy 8y ago
After having a titanium plate surgically attached to my wrist, I heartily recommend sitting in the lodge by the fireplace and playing Alto’s Adventure instead.
deleted 8y ago
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chickenbane 8y ago
Surprised such a comprehensive guide for geeks didn't get into bluetooth headphones! As a rider for a few years now, I've had good luck with the headphone inserts which fit into most helmets. Riding with your favorite music truly feels like playing the best of games and sports combined.
- NickNameNick 8y ago
  How many seasons do those things last? I thought about buying some, but the i felt like the batteries would die over summer, and I'd be lucky to get more than one season out of them.
  - gigantor 8y ago
    The Chips Helmet Audio has lasted me over 8 seasons and going strong. I don't maintain the batteries (I believe they should be stored with a 75% charge during off season) and still get enoigh charge for 2 full days of riding.
    - NickNameNick 8y ago
      Might have to get some. Thanks!
- steveadoo 8y ago
  Headphones plus a couple beers in my backpack, can never forget those. I notice once I get a few beers in me I'm much better.
- jammur 8y ago
  Not a fan of riding with headphones for one main reason. You won't hear other people yelling for help. This is especially important when you ski off piste at west coast resorts. I never want to accidentally miss something yelling for help or blowing their whistle in a tree well. If you're an east cost skier, this is probably less important. Also, it's infrequent, but I have avoided a few collisions because people yelled out at me when I was popping out of the trees onto a piste.
JshWright 8y ago
I don't know the first thing about snowboarding (despite living in one of the snowiest cities in the US), but this seems like a fantastic guide. Hits just the right level of detail to get you started without being totally overwhelming. Does anyone know of similar guides for other hobbies?
todd8 8y ago
You will fall on your butt more times than you would like the first time you try it. Knowing this plan accordingly. Schedule your first lessons for a day with good, firm but not hard snow, snow that is a bit like solid styrofoam. Falling on snow like that doesn’t hurt, but beware of a fresh dusting of flakes over hard packed icy base beneath. I found that once you’ve learned snowboarding that it works really well on many conditions from icy to powder, groomed and ungroomed. The trails do make a difference though. Skiers can manage narrow trails or catwalks easily no matter the slope. Snowboarding these tails can be difficult because boarders need to maintain enough speed to make it though the flat spots (no poles!) while not having much room to burn off excess speed by traversing the fall line, especially when there are lots of skiers traveling at a modest pace with their poles. Also moguls aren’t much fun for me on a board. Skiers have a tighter turning radius and the resulting mogul fields end up difficult for me on a board (I’m sure good boarders handle them just fine, but I can’t).
- beezle 8y ago
  First, too many boarders do not wax their boards frequently enough, if at all. It is really easy to do and unless the snow is super sticky spring stuff you can fly by skiiers on flats and traverses (or course, know how to hold and edge before doing that and don't pass without being sure you have room). Catwalks, speed just not a good idea. You really need to get out there and learn to do moguls. It will improve your boarding considerably. Start with a lesson or two and target days you know the bumps aren't ice boulders. Technique varies but common is always keep moving (you'll learn to hate the skiers who stop every four turns in front of you).
yters 8y ago
My main tip is to get good at falling without hurting yourself, which mostly means don't stand up too straight. Stay a bit crouched, even when going straight. Then, if you do catch an edge, you won't get quite the body slam, and it'll be easier to get up and try again. The downside is this will burn out your quads.
amelius 8y ago
Note: > Skiing and snowboarding does have a reputation of being a risky sport, but the overall injury rate for skiers is a little lower than you may expect with 3 injuries per 1000 skier days. Put another way, if you ski 20 days a year, on average you’ll sustain an injury every 16-17 years. Snowboarders have a higher injury risk with a reported 4-16 injuries per 1000 snowboarder days. Source: https://www.premax.co/au/blog/recent-statistics-on-skiing-and-snowboarding-injuries https://www.premax.co/au/blog/recent-statistics-on-skiing-an... See also: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1303417/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1303417/ And: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492000/
bane 8y ago
Lots of great comments here about snowboarding so I figured I'd provide my two cents. I tried skiing a couple of times and ended up just not having much fun. Eventually decided to try out snowboarding. It felt like I had gotten hit by a car the next day. But there was something about it that seemed promising, so I stuck with it. The initial learning curve is really steep. I was a far better skier after far less effort at the same point than snowboarding. But after keeping at it a few times I finally got parts of it to "click". I'm still terrible, but I rarely fall now and can generally make it down most blue slopes without too much fuss, something I really struggled with on skis. It works far more of your core muscles and your quads and hamstrings that skiing does, so it takes some time to figure out how to control all that with the precision. The key for me was to really understand that the board itself wasn't something I rode on top of, but instead of was a living vessel I was part of, and that I could twist, rotate and otherwise manipulate using movements in my legs, subtle shifts in center of balance and core muscles. Once that started to make sense it became much easier and I found it far easier and more rewarding that skiing for me. Skiing is many moving parts you have to coordinate, snowboarding is one moving part with many subtle means of expression. It's a bit like the difference between playing a drumkit and playing a violin if that makes sense for any musicians.
- mmartinson 8y ago
  Interesting. I snowboarded for 18 years before switching full time to skiing last year, and I've reversely similar experience to yours in loving the nuance and subtly of the new skill. I wonder if there's something about combining a base fitness and aptitude with a beginner's mind. I love the symmetry to skiing, and the experience of begin square to the fall line.
- jammur 8y ago
  I mean no offence, but I think a few of these opinions are probably because of your skill level on both a snowboard and skis. > It works far more of your core muscles and your quads and hamstrings that skiing does, so it takes some time to figure out how to control all that with the precision. If you're skiing hard, the core and quads are fully engaged. Especially in deep snow. In fact, I suspect that you need more engagement on skis. > The key for me was to really understand that the board itself wasn't something I rode on top of, but instead of was a living vessel I was part of, and that I could twist, rotate and otherwise manipulate using movements in my legs, subtle shifts in center of balance and core muscles. Once that started to make sense it became much easier and I found it far easier and more rewarding that skiing for me. Everything you said here about snowboarding applies to skiing, however it takes longer for that to click on skis because there's more to coordinate. > Skiing is many moving parts you have to coordinate, snowboarding is one moving part with many subtle means of expression. I definitely agree with the sentiment of one moving part with subtle means of expression, but when you get good at skiing, it starts to feel more like one moving part. This is my experience as someone who snowboarded for 15ish years before switching to skiing a few years ago.
dalex00 8y ago
Anyone have a similar guide for skiing?
jim-greer 8y ago
+1 for heat fitted boots. If you find that your feet are hurting, fit is key.

299 points by lubos76 8y ago

This is the kind of content I come to HN for. :)

+1. Always wanted to learn to Ski not having been exposed to snow early on but was told that Snowboarding is easier than Skiing for absolute beginners. Perhaps this time i can actually get some proper lessons. Timing couldn't be perfect!. Thanks.

clmckinley 8y ago
My experience has been the opposite. Skiing is easier at slow speeds and has a shorter learning curve, but takes a lot longer to get good. Snow boarding has a higher learning curve and is harder at slow speeds, but once it clicks you can do most anything on the mountain in a couple of days. Skiing was intuitive and my body wanted to do enough of the right thing to get me down most of the beginner slope with little "learning". Snowboarding felt unnatural so i had to fight my bodies natural instincts. The trick with snowboarding is to go faster than feels comfortable at first because it is much easier when you have momentum.
- dominotw 8y ago
  > way you have to lean with snowboarding felt unnatural so i had to fight my bodies natural instincts. I had the same feeling with skiing. 1. Lean forward to stop and get control when ur instinct is to lean back to stop the glide. 2. lean on the opposite side of where you want to go, you want to lean in the same direction. etc
stephen_g 8y ago
I don’t think it actually is easier, from my experience based on learning years ago on a school trip, where a lot of people skied and about a dozen of us boarded. It seemed that the beginner skiers were able to navigate more of the resort faster than us boarders over the first two or so days. But after about three days with a lesson in the morning and riding on our own all afternoon, the difference had pretty much disappeared, and the more adventurous of us of either type were doing intermediate difficulty runs pretty easily. So apart from the first couple of days, I don’t think it really makes that much difference. The biggest difference to me, I have to admit, is that once you get the hang of it, snowboarding feels cooler and more fun than skiing looks (to me), but I’m sure skiing is a lot of fun too (especially if you want to go very fast, which is a lot easier on skis)! But for the first day or two of boarding, you spend a lot of time on your butt and falling over!
jasode 8y ago
>but was told that Snowboarding is easier than Skiing for absolute beginners. I think the "easier" depends on the target skill level. Skiiing is easier to achieve a beginner skill level. Absolute beginners can point their toes inward and ski "pizza wedges" down easy hills rated as "green" within a few hours. Indeed, many skiiers including adults never leave this stage. But upgrading the skills to intermediate level requires changing the technique to shift the body weight to the edges of the skis. This shift can take weeks. Snowboarding learning curve is the opposite. It's harder to get going as a beginner because you must balance on alternating edges of the board to even make the simplest basic turns. But the payoff is that you can graduate to intermediate and advanced slopes (the blues and black rated trails) much faster.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Would you say knowing how to skateboard makes snowboarding easier? I'm planning on trying one of these this winter for the first time and I'm hoping some biking/skateboarding balance transfers over.
  - leetrout 8y ago
    The way you lean to carve and drive with your feet and let your body follow is very much like long boarding IMO. I never skated on a regular board but I'd say yes you will have it easier.
  - aplc0r 8y ago
    When I first tried snowboarding after skateboarding for many years, the hardest part to get used to was being strapped into the board. I instinctively wanted to adjust the position of my feet and run out of falls.
  - jasode 8y ago
    In my unscientific opinion, I think there is some skills overlap with skateboarding, surfing, and snowboarding. They all put your body at a 90 degree angle to the direction you're heading and you have to adjust your center of gravity over the board to turn. So it's very possible your skateboarding skills will help you learn faster than people who don't surf and skateboard.
superhuzza 8y ago
Just a warning, snowboarding is traditionally considered more difficult for beginners than skiing. This is mostly because your legs are in fixed positions, so you have fewer independent points of contact with the ground (so balance is worse).
- DBYCZ 8y ago
  It's way easier for a beginner to crash on a snowboard than on skis. The difference is that it's way easier to crash really hard on skis than it is on a board. Once you catch an edge or slide out on a board, you're on the ground. I've seen skiers fall back on to their skis and rocket down the hill uncontrolled.
yodsanklai 8y ago
I used to be a snowboarding instructor (I don't ski though). I'd say you can quickly be able to go on all kind of slopes. Beginner/intermediate skiers tend to have a harder time in powder or steep slopes. However, snowboarding beginners tend to fall much more often, the first days can be very tiring. I'd recommend avoiding learning on hard snow. If you can, make sure you you go in the mountain when the snow is fresh. And much much better to have an instructor.
arethuza 8y ago
You might want to consider where you'll be learning - if the area has a lot of drag lifts then they can be miserable for snowboarders.
hnal943 8y ago
I skied for 15 years before I learned to snowboard. I have never fallen so hard as when I was first learning to snowboard! The other downside is not being able to traverse flat terrain, which is more or less important depending on the resort you are at.
lui8906 8y ago
A general rule of thumb I've heard many times is: 'Skiing is easy to learn but hard to master, Snowboarding is hard to learn but easier to master'. You're likely to fall over more learning to snowboard but will become competent and able to carve down the mountain faster. Other elements to consider, Skiers are usually able to go faster than snowboarders down the hill. Snowboarders will have to unstrap and strap into their back binding when entering and exiting the chairlifts. Snowboarders have many more easy trick options available. I know hardly any skiers that can do any tricks, most of my competent snowboarding friends are able to at least do small jumps of sidehits (mounds of snow on the sides of the slope). I'm a passionate snowboarder and cannot recommend the sport highly enough, there is just no feeling like riding down fresh powder snow on a cool winters morning!
- volkl48 8y ago
  I'll note that skiers seem have a much easier time learning to handle difficult terrain/higher typical skill cap in that area. I don't see many boarders who can handle mogul fields without looking miserable. Likewise, when you've got some vertical ice skating going on a double diamond, the skiers usually have a much easier time maintaining control (two edges and all that). I'll also note that a flat traverse is way more miserable for a boarder, skiers can "skate" along. All depends on what you want to do any your interests. Either way, it's a great hobby.
  - altec3 8y ago
    I think the reason moguls suck for snowboarders is because they're traditionally made from skiers carving.
    - beezle 8y ago
      more specifically, from bad skiers not carving.
  - beezle 8y ago
    Most of the boarders complaining about flats do so because they never wax their boards. If you regularly wax with the right stuff you'll be able to fly by skiers on all but the stickiest of spring crud. And when I say waxing, I mean doing it yourself. Too many shops do really inferior work. If you must use a shop, keep a small structure brush with you. A credit card can be used in a pinch as a scraper. The bane of speed is wax left on the board.
mylons 8y ago
on skis, it's very possible to go down a blue confidently on day 1. on a snowboard, that's very unlikely.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  I know people who have skied for years and aren't confident enough to do that.
  - mylons 8y ago
    ok. it doesn't mean it's not very possible
jasonkester 8y ago
Snowboarding is faster to pick up because the approach you take to the sport is different than for skiing. Skiing is all about not falling. Falling on skis is no fun and results in having to walk up the slope to find your skis. After your first season, you'll often go entire years with only a fall or two. And those hurt, so you avoid them. Snowboarding is a sport where you fall all the time, even as an expert. There are no consequences to doing so, apart from maybe picking your hat up, so the best plan is to simply go for it and see what happens. If you bite it, you bounce back up before you even come to a complete stop and keep going. Naturally, it hurts a lot the first season. But you get good fast. I skied for like 10 years before picking up snowboarding. And I was better at snowboarding within the first season.
- robnagler 8y ago
  I disagree there are no consequences. Broken ribs have been known to occur.[0] [0] https://www.viarob.com/my/page/Snowtorturing https://www.viarob.com/my/page/Snowtorturing
mattnewport 8y ago
This may be true if you're in pretty good shape and have pretty good balance. If you're not fitter than an average 20 something I think skiing is probably easier as a beginner.
drblast 8y ago
Snowboarding is the best, but whoever told you that is steering you wrong. Skiing is much easier to learn. Lessons will definitely help shorten the learning time but be prepared for your first 3-5 days to be a painful experience if you're snowboarding. If you only go 3-5 days a season you're probably going to have a much better time on skiis.

dominotw 8y ago

Is there an equivalent for skiing?

jonkiddy 8y ago
If you fine one, I'm very interested. Please share. This article has great content! But at best I'm amateur skier not a snowboarder.
- phillc73 8y ago
  There is so much to geek out on with skiing, probably much like anything new. A few years ago I moved to Austria. Last year my young son wanted to start skiing, so in my mid-40s I'm also learning. The amount of time I researched which skis and boots to buy would easily be above 40 hours. Then searching the Internet for the best bargains again added more time. Pretty much after just one season, I'm now into waxing my own skis. Another total geek activity. So many different waxes for different conditions. Then watching the weather and trying to figure out where the best snow will be for next weekend, that has to qualify as geek.

dep_b 8y ago

Riding hardboots since the 90's. Lots of gear tweakers in that scene. People treating their clothing with certain kinds of stuff they treat sails with to not rip them to shreds when doing continuous laid down linked turns, boots modifications for extra flexibility, experimenting with all kinds of shapes and materials and hours and hours of talk about edge pressure. I tried Driver X boots for example. Way to rigid compared to the forward flex of my hardboots!

24gttghh 8y ago
I ride in the trees a lot and crash through dead branches regularly to find those lines that others miss. What kind of treatment are we talking here? All I can find is stuff like 3M seamtape, or sewing on more material in high-abrasion spots.
- iAm25626 8y ago
  i used Plasti Dip spray. Multiple layers. Not sure it will work with dead branches. http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/44584-shredding-jacket-arms/?tab=comments#comment-451653 http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/44584-shredding-ja...
- dep_b 8y ago
  https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/ https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/ People use Sika 252 or Covergom I think. Use it for gloves and your hips, mine wear out like crazy on frozen groomers.
iAm25626 8y ago
Fellow hardbooter here. Talk about when world collides. I know the guy in the Photo(hardboot). Yes there are tons of tinker-bell: it's not my lack of skill it's the equipment not "optimized" for the condition.
- jpwgarrison 8y ago
  Me three! I can't imagine going back to soft boots. The initial cost is more but boots and bindings last far longer.

rbreve 8y ago

Wear a helmet! I had some nasty falls learning!

mdn0420 8y ago
Absolutely. Concussions are a very real thing and it’s definitely not worth any serious injuries. The better you get, the harder the falls will be.
- werdnapk 8y ago
  When you're learning, you'll catch an edge quite often and you'll fall fast and hard... a helmet is a must. If I didn't have one, I'd probably have been in the hospital at least a few times. :)
pjmlp 8y ago
I also had them, include a nasty shoulder one. So not only helmet but other stuff as well, like those spine protection jackets.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  So basically motorcycle gear?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    When you crash with your body against someone else or the nature going at 60+ KM/H there is hardly any difference.
    - postsantum 8y ago
      Exactly. When I plowed into a tree trunk, I had my board broken in half and speed wasn't even close to 60. Scary to think that it might have been my spine
JeremyBanks 8y ago

tribeofone 8y ago

My 2 cents for beginners, most of these are covered in the article: 1. Get a flying-v or CamRock - makes turning easier and will hold an edge better until you figure out how to carve. 2. Don't put your feet perpendicular to the board, you want some angle, 30° Front, 15° Back. It will make it easier to square your shoulders down the hill and get your weight on the front of your edge. 3. Start on a Blue slope. Seriously. I hate seeing beginners exhausting themselves on green slopes straining to get enough speed to get on edge and then catching the opposite edge because there is not enough slope.

chrisfinne 8y ago
Start on a Blue slop IF the conditions are good, i.e. you can dig your edge into the snow at least an inch. If the conditions are not good, i.e. hard-pack or icy, then put the board away. Trying to learn in poor conditions is counterproductive and very painful on your ass, wrists and head.
- kemiller2002 8y ago
  I live in the Midwest U.S., those are the only conditions we have. :) (You're still right. It sucks and is painful, but it's all us non-mountain people have).
  - dgzl 8y ago
    You also don't have any mountains. - someone who just moved back to the PNW from Michigan and Illinois.
    - ashtonbaker 8y ago
      The UP has some interesting stuff, but living in Ann Arbor, it's a shorter trip just to get on a plane and go to Utah.
calmnature1 8y ago
Yes. All correct info.

bendixso 8y ago

Some of the geekiest people I know have become the best skiers/snowboarders on the mountain. I know a guy who used to regularly show up to the terrain park and do double frontflips over 60 foot jumps. He's got a PHD in physics now. I know another guy who used to compete in big air competitions. Senior iOS developer. My friend Brian does double cork 10s. Medical doctor. This sport is for nerds. If you're nerdy, you have an even greater chance of being successful at it because you know how to focus on getting great at something.

sakopov 8y ago
I do a lot of expedition-style backpacking either alone or in a guided group. The groups are always full of tech people, mostly from SV. It's almost like the only people who can afford fun shit are the techies.
- mtnGoat 8y ago
  could it be they are the only ones that can afford $600 per day guided trips? MDs and tech nerds are well paid.
  - sakopov 8y ago
    Nah, It's not even that much. $600 will get you a very good, 3 or 4-day guided trip to the backcountry in Oregon and Washington. You'd be hauling your gear, food and skies/snowshoes. I do think that techies can easily afford this stuff, but I also think what's more important is they can afford to take a lot of time off work (or just leave their jobs all together knowing they'll find another gig fairly quickly) to enjoy things like this.
- marmshallow 8y ago
  Are these all in Northern California?
  - illegalsmile 8y ago
    Not at all. There are high end touring and backpacking, i.e. full service guided hut/cat/heli drops and hut to hut style, all over the world in or near most major ski destinations. Most people I know who can afford to do these trips is within the STEM group or independently wealthy. Or they're younger with no overhead and they dirtbag it for a awhile to save up but this is the minority.

pjmlp 8y ago

I got my passion for snowboard with 26. I got to get myself busy somehow during Winter time on the Swiss/French Alps. However nowadays I seldom do it, as I fear to suffer a 2nd injury and recovery from the first one wasn't that fun.

figers 8y ago

Wish they had the same article for skiing!

calmnature1 8y ago

TL;DR As a former instructor and full-time programmer: 1 Get a lesson. Keep your knees bent, lead your turns with your arm and front knee. 2 Blues are easier to learn on then greens because the pitch helps you stay up. I have gotten overweight / out of shape older guys from LA, that have never even seen snow, to be confident riders in a day using this trick and the 'falling leaf' method. 3 The first two days will be painful generally, stick with it because once it 'clicks' you will have so much fun!

beezle 8y ago
I'm not a certified instructor but have taken out many a novice the past 20 years. I'm not fond of the 'lead with your arm' point as I've seen way too many beginners with arms flopping all over the place and instead prefer arms and hands kept quietly at the sides. If they get into high speed or euro-style carving, then yes arm positioning is more in play.

chrisfinne 8y ago

I grew up waterskiing, so when I moved to the mountains, I thought I'd pick up snow skiing easily. I did o.k., but after a few years I still hadn't gotten that "flow". After a few years of skiing, I tried boarding and got "flow" the second day when there was 12 inches of fresh pow, even though I still sucked at it. Immediately switched and haven't looked back. Several years later, it dawned on me that waterskiing is done on a single ski, so it is much closer to snowboarding. Your feet are just at a different angle. Seems obvious in hindsight.

paulcole 8y ago
> it dawned on me that waterskiing is done on a single ski Isn't waterskiing on a single ski called wakeboarding? Where I grew up in Florida plenty of people waterskiied on 2 skis.
- chrisfinne 8y ago
  You learn on 2, then move to 1 aka slalom as you have far more manuverability. Wakeboards and skurfers (if those are still around) are wider than a slalom ski and don't have both feet facing forward. They are closer to a snowboard. But I find the most fun behind a boat is on a regular surfboard.
- schwap 8y ago
  There are single (slalom) water skis, they are different from wakeboards.

sudosteph 8y ago

Snowboarding absolutely is as fun as it looks, but don't underestimate how much it's going to hurt the day after. I've gone nearly a dozen times and I still end up bruised by the end of the day. Admittedly, I'm a bit clumsier than most, but I've never collided with another human being at least. Also, I was surprised that the article didn't mention the one aspect that I actually found way harder than anything else to learn do reliably: going from sitting to standing on the board with your feet strapped in is HARD. I thought it was something I'd be able to learn through technique since I'm mostly in shape from a cardio perspective, but I just don't have the core strength to get up the proper way. While I absolutely could never once manage to get up with my heels dug into the snow, I can easily get up from my toes. It sort of stinks though because I'm never facing downhill when I first get up, so I can't really see great downhill, but at least I know when people are coming behind me. The obvious solution to the standing problem is just to fall less, but I haven't quite figured that out. So instead I've tried to do more lunges when I exercise. Probably won't be enough though.

ambicapter 8y ago
Its "easier" when you bring your hips real low, isn't it? The downside is you need more balance to not tip over entirely.
- fhbdukfrh 8y ago
  It's also easier on a steeper slope. Kind of counter intuitive but similar it's easier weight a bit of speed,... until you find yourself floating and catch an edge
- sudosteph 8y ago
  Sometimes when I try it earlier in the day, I am able to get up if I keep my hips real low and give myself a good push against the snow behind me, then I can go from a low crouch to standing while the board starts to go in motion. But as soon as I get a bit fatigued, I just lose balance and fall as soon as my butt leaves the snow. I still have never managed it by myself with my heels properly dug in so that I don't slide around while standing.
8y ago

Yizahi 8y ago

As a skier who only took a beginning level instructor and then learned by myself for multiple seasons - take as many instructor hours as you can, even if can already ride down black slopes. Seriously, last year I took an advanced instructor and it was a revelation. Take instructor even when you think you don't need him and don't listen to your friends joking about it.

Spearchucker 8y ago
Interesting. Been skiing since I was 3 (so my father tells me), and learnt to snowboard 20 years ago when I was 30. I went into a shop in the Austrian Alps (St. Johann am Pongau), hired a board and boots, found myself an instructor and had an hours' 1:1 lesson. Never had another instructor since but got to teach three people to 'board on Mount Baker, WA. But for about 2 years now I've been wondering what I don't yet know that an instructor night teach me. So I'm going to get me an instructor when I next go in Jan.
- mattnewport 8y ago
  I've been snowboarding for over 20 years and skied for 10 years before that. I live near Whistler, did a season there and average over 20 days riding a season. I still take lessons when I get a chance and always get value out of them.
- Yizahi 8y ago
  As a skier I discovered that while I could ride down red slopes and struggle down black slopes I did almost everything wrong. Wrong upper body position, wrong body movement in turns, wrong weight balance in turns, wrong pressure application on the ski, etc. We did some exercises with impairments too - no hand movement or with open boot bindings to understand certain things and it really did help.
- adrr 8y ago
  Ski instructor on a powder day is a blast. You get to cut the lines and get fresh tracks. Also if you sign up for small group advanced lessons, you're usually the only person in the group so its like a private instructor for half the price.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

Snowboarding is an ass-buster. Someone needs to invent an air bag for the rear.

kemiller2002 8y ago
They have them actually. Well, not the air bag, but they have pants with padding. My friend cracked his tailbone riding, and I said, "screw that" and spent the money on Demon FlexForce pants. Best money I ever spent (well outside of the helmet).
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Yes! an ass-helmet.
Arubis 8y ago
If you’re feeling frugal and not particularly proud, you can cut to fit one of those foam rubber sleeping pads that folks use for camping when they don’t want to swing for a Thermarest, and tape the cuts into the rear and knees of your snow pants. It doesn’t look great, but it looks a heck of a lot better than bruising.
mtnGoat 8y ago
just learn to ride, then you wont have this problem. As an advanced snowboarder i can go all day without touching but to snow, without problem.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  That requires a learning process.
tim333 8y ago
It is for beginners - you get over that. Learning how to fall by kind of sitting helps. When I lived in Chamonix a lot of the enthusiast boarders had fractured spines - now there's one to avoid. Mostly from going over cliff like drops by error, off piste.

gnicholas 8y ago

Playing a snowboarding video game — after having gone snowboarding once — was very helpful for me. Seeing how the avatar lifted the edges of his board while turning helped me understand what I’d been doing wrong and made me a much better snowboarder the second time around. Watching YouTube videos would probably serve a similar purpose, but the interactivity of the game made it especially useful for me (besides, YouTube didn’t exist when I learned in the late 90s). For the record, I played 1080 Snowboarding on the Dreamcast, may it rest in peace. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080%C2%B0_Snowboarding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080%C2%B0_Snowboarding

leoalves 8y ago
Last year I bought a copy of Steep for my son (he was 7). First day in our Christmas vacation, he thought he could to a 360, just like in the video game, he landed on his nose. We stayed for a week in the resort watching snowboard on youtube. :)

kenneth 8y ago

This is a great in-depth guide. I wonder if there's anything like it for skiing. I'm a life-long skier and about the only thing that seems appealing about snowboards to me is the more comfortable boots.

danr4 8y ago

If you're a snowboard romantic, I HIGHLY suggest listening to the "How I built this" podcast episode with Jake Burton, the founder of Burton snowboards. It's an incredibly moving and honest look at the beginnings of the sport.

Phenomenit 8y ago
Jake Carpenter according to apple podcast app.
- krschultz 8y ago
  For context his full name is Jake Burton Carpenter, the company is his middle name.
beezle 8y ago
Get or rent a copy of "Lines" It is a board flick about making board flicks but has a ton of historical footage and interviews in there. And any of the early Ticket to Ride's. Burton deserves many kudos but there are/were a lot of others who did as much to advance the sport. Few have the longevity and balls of Jeremy Jones and it really hurt losing Craig Kelly as just two examples.

chair6 8y ago

I started skiing as a kid, switched to snowboarding as a teenager, then started skiing again now in my mid-30s. Picking up skiing again after ~20 years was a lot of fun; nice to feel like I'm learning something new again but still know how snow feels and mountains work. From my own experience, and watching a number of other friends, the first 2-3 days of skiing is easier than the first 2-3 days of snowboarding. These days I'll happily ski/board most places on most mountains (in-resort, at least) but if I'm getting into technical terrain will vastly prefer a snowboard.. much quicker recovery time if you fall, often you can just bounce back up w/out fully stopping. I'd argue that snowboards are more fun in the pow as well.. skis are great for the hard-and-fast groomer days! If you're a nerd, and you like skiing / boarding, then check out ski touring / splitboarding. Add backcountry travel, navigation, skin track setting, & most importantly avalanche / snow safety, and you've got a sport that is almost endless in terms of things to learn & keep in mind while you're out and about. And it's excellent exercise while you're at it!

woolvalley 8y ago

I've found snowboarding sucks compared to skiing if your skiing in somewhat consistently icey conditions like we have here at Tahoe. Getting kneepads definitely made it less painful, since it's easy to trip over your toe edge onto your knees when you turn into a groove on ice.

acconrad 8y ago
> I've found snowboarding sucks compared to skiing if your skiing in somewhat consistently icey conditions You should try New England :) I'd add that skiing is superior if you're doing a lot of backcountry traversing as well. The only remedy is to either learn to ski or get a split board (which will set you back $800+).
- Analog24 8y ago
  While I agree that backcountry travel, in general, is easier on skis you're going to shell out more money for an AT ski setup then you will for a splitboard.

acconrad 8y ago

I never thought I'd see a fusion of these two, but I am so happy it's here! Snowboarding has been my connection with nature since I was a kid. When I finished my Eagle Scout project and moved to the city, I was left with this hole for nature that needed to be filled. Now as an adult living in a city, my reconnection with nature is through snowboarding. Once I started riding deep powder in Canada, Japan, and Europe, my life changed. There are few things in my life more awe-inspiring than a fresh pow day and untouched trails. And until you've experienced it, it's very difficult to describe that feeling you get when touching nature in a way few experience. My grandfather skied until he was 89. I hope to make it that far as well. ALSO, my first job was working in a ski shop as a kid. And I totally geek out about snowboarding gear, so I'm happy to make recommendations to anyone here looking for board/boots/bindings/accessories/clothing gear/backcountry items/etc. If you do decide to head into the backcountry, take an AIARE level 1 avalanche course, and be sure to buy a pole, shovel, and transponder: http://aiare.info/providers_list.php http://aiare.info/providers_list.php FINALLY, tips after reading through the whole beginner recommendation chart: * TAKE LESSONS. LOTS OF THEM. They may be expensive, but an immersive 2/3 day lesson plan will rapidly accelerate your learning. The less you know, the more you fall. The more days you fall, the more pain you're in. Save your ass (literally) and just take as many lessons as you can afford until you're linking turns and carving down the mountain. Then take more :) * GEARTRADE.COM - This site looks like it was made in 2002 but they have the best deals. A lot of the Backcountry.com returns get sent here, so it's basically like-new quality for a fraction of the cost. * For a board, get a true twin. If I could go back and learn all over again, I'd learn switch as quickly as I learned regular. A twin board helps immensely. * Boots matter probably even more than the board and bindings. If you're gonna drop cash, drop them here and in the clothes so you stay warm/dry. * DO NOT GET STEP-IN BINDINGS. Even the 2nd gen of Burton step-ins are improved, but people still have problems with them. The ease you get (even with the Flow bindings) doesn't make up for the lack of contact/feel you get with traditional bindings. The analogy I think of is like a Tesla - yeah you could get autonomous driving capabilities, but it's just not there yet. Save your money and wait a few more years before putting all of your faith in this system. * It's easy to get caught up in the Burton hype. Burton is a very holistic company in that they can get you a board/boots/bindings/clothes. And they're not a bad company. It's just that there are also a lot of other great companies that make stuff as well. * Get bib pants. Even if you aren't riding pow in the backcountry, trust me. Bibs provide more freedom of movement, you never have to worry about bringing a belt or it snapping/breaking on a ride, and even if you're on a trail and you eat it, you could still get snow up your back. * DON'T OVERSPEND ON GLOVES. Someone will try and justify Gore Tex Hestras to you. Just pick up KINCO 901 SKI MITTENS. There's a reason every ski patrol and service person wears them. They're cheap (<$20), durable as hell, and can be waterproofed with bee's wax in about 1 hour. * Don't wear cotton. Always prefer poly base layers and down/fleece mid layers. They can be had for very cheap at the basement outlet stores (TJMaxx, Marshalls, etc). * On that note, YMMV but if you layer properly, you basically have 0 need for an insulated jacket. That saves you money to spend higher on outer layers that focus on waterproofing. Plus you can use that uninsulated shell as a rain jacket in the sprint/summer. * Goggles are another thing to spend up on. The last thing you want is compromised vision. Get goggles that have interchangeable lenses (I prefer the Electric EG3 for super wide visibility and easy/cheap interchangeable lenses). GET 1 FOR CLOUDY/DARK AND 1 FOR SUNNY/BRIGHT. Don't worry about mirrored lenses; if you can afford to spend up on polarized it will help in bright conditions, but for cloudy it won't matter, though generally yellow is considered the best lens color for dark conditions (superior to amber and rose). * I highly recommend the YouTube subscriptions mentioned. SnowboardProCamp and Snowboarding Addiction are awesome instructional videos. Ryan Knapton has the best buttering technique as I've ever seen. * Yes, buttering is a thing. And it's awesome.

searine 8y ago

I have snowboarded for 20 years. Wear a helmet. Seriously WEAR A HELMET.

beezle 8y ago
Its funny but the way I tell western riders is they rarely wear helmets.

ken 8y ago

I like seeing guides like this for newcomers. It's pretty funny, though, to see Architecture Astronauts try to find similarities between any two activities, no matter how different: "__ can resonate with the geek inside us because it has gadgets, it requires systematic approach to our own progress and it provides a lot of satisfaction and fun we typically find in the creative process." Is there any human endeavor which could not fill the blank here?

e-m-p 8y ago

This is an awesome guide!

aaronmu 8y ago

Yes! Go snowboarding! You'll never be as good as the guys in the videos but you'll definitely be able to feel what they feel! Super fun!

booleanbetrayal 8y ago

Would be nice to be able to get my carve somewhat close to Knapton's at some point in my existence.

ratsimihah 8y ago

How it is targeting geeks in particular?

fitzroy 8y ago

After having a titanium plate surgically attached to my wrist, I heartily recommend sitting in the lodge by the fireplace and playing Alto’s Adventure instead.

deleted 8y ago

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chickenbane 8y ago

Surprised such a comprehensive guide for geeks didn't get into bluetooth headphones! As a rider for a few years now, I've had good luck with the headphone inserts which fit into most helmets. Riding with your favorite music truly feels like playing the best of games and sports combined.

NickNameNick 8y ago
How many seasons do those things last? I thought about buying some, but the i felt like the batteries would die over summer, and I'd be lucky to get more than one season out of them.
- gigantor 8y ago
  The Chips Helmet Audio has lasted me over 8 seasons and going strong. I don't maintain the batteries (I believe they should be stored with a 75% charge during off season) and still get enoigh charge for 2 full days of riding.
  - NickNameNick 8y ago
    Might have to get some. Thanks!
steveadoo 8y ago
Headphones plus a couple beers in my backpack, can never forget those. I notice once I get a few beers in me I'm much better.
jammur 8y ago
Not a fan of riding with headphones for one main reason. You won't hear other people yelling for help. This is especially important when you ski off piste at west coast resorts. I never want to accidentally miss something yelling for help or blowing their whistle in a tree well. If you're an east cost skier, this is probably less important. Also, it's infrequent, but I have avoided a few collisions because people yelled out at me when I was popping out of the trees onto a piste.

JshWright 8y ago

I don't know the first thing about snowboarding (despite living in one of the snowiest cities in the US), but this seems like a fantastic guide. Hits just the right level of detail to get you started without being totally overwhelming. Does anyone know of similar guides for other hobbies?

todd8 8y ago

You will fall on your butt more times than you would like the first time you try it. Knowing this plan accordingly. Schedule your first lessons for a day with good, firm but not hard snow, snow that is a bit like solid styrofoam. Falling on snow like that doesn’t hurt, but beware of a fresh dusting of flakes over hard packed icy base beneath. I found that once you’ve learned snowboarding that it works really well on many conditions from icy to powder, groomed and ungroomed. The trails do make a difference though. Skiers can manage narrow trails or catwalks easily no matter the slope. Snowboarding these tails can be difficult because boarders need to maintain enough speed to make it though the flat spots (no poles!) while not having much room to burn off excess speed by traversing the fall line, especially when there are lots of skiers traveling at a modest pace with their poles. Also moguls aren’t much fun for me on a board. Skiers have a tighter turning radius and the resulting mogul fields end up difficult for me on a board (I’m sure good boarders handle them just fine, but I can’t).

beezle 8y ago
First, too many boarders do not wax their boards frequently enough, if at all. It is really easy to do and unless the snow is super sticky spring stuff you can fly by skiiers on flats and traverses (or course, know how to hold and edge before doing that and don't pass without being sure you have room). Catwalks, speed just not a good idea. You really need to get out there and learn to do moguls. It will improve your boarding considerably. Start with a lesson or two and target days you know the bumps aren't ice boulders. Technique varies but common is always keep moving (you'll learn to hate the skiers who stop every four turns in front of you).

yters 8y ago

My main tip is to get good at falling without hurting yourself, which mostly means don't stand up too straight. Stay a bit crouched, even when going straight. Then, if you do catch an edge, you won't get quite the body slam, and it'll be easier to get up and try again. The downside is this will burn out your quads.

amelius 8y ago

Note: > Skiing and snowboarding does have a reputation of being a risky sport, but the overall injury rate for skiers is a little lower than you may expect with 3 injuries per 1000 skier days. Put another way, if you ski 20 days a year, on average you’ll sustain an injury every 16-17 years. Snowboarders have a higher injury risk with a reported 4-16 injuries per 1000 snowboarder days. Source: https://www.premax.co/au/blog/recent-statistics-on-skiing-and-snowboarding-injuries https://www.premax.co/au/blog/recent-statistics-on-skiing-an... See also: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1303417/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1303417/ And: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2492000/

bane 8y ago

Lots of great comments here about snowboarding so I figured I'd provide my two cents. I tried skiing a couple of times and ended up just not having much fun. Eventually decided to try out snowboarding. It felt like I had gotten hit by a car the next day. But there was something about it that seemed promising, so I stuck with it. The initial learning curve is really steep. I was a far better skier after far less effort at the same point than snowboarding. But after keeping at it a few times I finally got parts of it to "click". I'm still terrible, but I rarely fall now and can generally make it down most blue slopes without too much fuss, something I really struggled with on skis. It works far more of your core muscles and your quads and hamstrings that skiing does, so it takes some time to figure out how to control all that with the precision. The key for me was to really understand that the board itself wasn't something I rode on top of, but instead of was a living vessel I was part of, and that I could twist, rotate and otherwise manipulate using movements in my legs, subtle shifts in center of balance and core muscles. Once that started to make sense it became much easier and I found it far easier and more rewarding that skiing for me. Skiing is many moving parts you have to coordinate, snowboarding is one moving part with many subtle means of expression. It's a bit like the difference between playing a drumkit and playing a violin if that makes sense for any musicians.

mmartinson 8y ago
Interesting. I snowboarded for 18 years before switching full time to skiing last year, and I've reversely similar experience to yours in loving the nuance and subtly of the new skill. I wonder if there's something about combining a base fitness and aptitude with a beginner's mind. I love the symmetry to skiing, and the experience of begin square to the fall line.
jammur 8y ago
I mean no offence, but I think a few of these opinions are probably because of your skill level on both a snowboard and skis. > It works far more of your core muscles and your quads and hamstrings that skiing does, so it takes some time to figure out how to control all that with the precision. If you're skiing hard, the core and quads are fully engaged. Especially in deep snow. In fact, I suspect that you need more engagement on skis. > The key for me was to really understand that the board itself wasn't something I rode on top of, but instead of was a living vessel I was part of, and that I could twist, rotate and otherwise manipulate using movements in my legs, subtle shifts in center of balance and core muscles. Once that started to make sense it became much easier and I found it far easier and more rewarding that skiing for me. Everything you said here about snowboarding applies to skiing, however it takes longer for that to click on skis because there's more to coordinate. > Skiing is many moving parts you have to coordinate, snowboarding is one moving part with many subtle means of expression. I definitely agree with the sentiment of one moving part with subtle means of expression, but when you get good at skiing, it starts to feel more like one moving part. This is my experience as someone who snowboarded for 15ish years before switching to skiing a few years ago.

dalex00 8y ago

Anyone have a similar guide for skiing?

jim-greer 8y ago

+1 for heat fitted boots. If you find that your feet are hurting, fit is key.