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Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities
- ProfessorLayton 8y agoI'm extremely curious what the cities who were working closely with Amazon think of this development, as now it seems that they'll be getting half the jobs for their concessions. Additionally, the reason cited for splitting their new HQ is the lack of enough tech talent, which means that their concessions may have been for naught if they didn't have enough talent for Amazon in the first place.
- sct202 8y agoSome of the cities had incentives that were at least partially linked to headcount; like there are rumors that Chicago/Illinois proposals would route Amazon HQ2 employees state income tax into the incentive fund.
- Finnucane 8y agoHow often do these kind of deals really work out well for the cities involved? Often them seem like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football.
- jimjansen 8y agoI doubt that even spineless politicians would give up the same concessions for half the jobs and investments.
- jeffbax 8y agoSee Foxconn
- zjaffee 8y agoA lot of the economic development policies passed in the name of HQ2 offered incentives in the form of stating, if you bring x number of jobs to y location, you get z tax break (where it wouldn't just apply to amazon).
- kevin_b_er 8y agoSo double the concessions?
- WalterSear 8y agoHe didn't become the world's richest shopkeeper by accident.
- taurath 8y agoI was hoping for a significant cooling of the Seattle housing market with a full fledged hq2, but it appears it will be seattle first for quite a while I’d guess.
- slm_HN 8y agoThe Seattle housing market is already cooling faster than anywhere in the country, and has been for a while (newspapers tend to be a few months behind in this type of news): https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/seattle-home-sellers-seeing-new-reality-are-lowering-list-prices-faster-than-anywhere-else/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/seattle-ho...
- taurath 8y agoIts got a very high perch to cool down from. There's definitely a seasonal element to the current slowdown - price drops are happening, but prices are still up 5% YOY. I'm hoping for a correction or at least 0% for a little bit.
- sugarpile 8y agoLooks like the github wsjUnblock repo got nuked at some point and the most recent version doesn't work on wsj anymore. Does anyone know if it's still alive (under active development) anywhere? If not I'll probably start poking around and see if I can get it working again.
- phonon 8y agoYou need to directly click on a twitter/FB WSJ shortlink while in incognito mode.
- RubenSandwich 8y agoRuth Graham, a writer for Slate, commented on this this morning[0]: " A sword was brought & Bezos said “Cut HQ2 in half. Each of you can have part of it.” “Please don’t split HQ2,” the true host city screamed. “Go ahead, cut it in half," the other city said. Bezos pointed to the first city. “This is the real host. Put the headquarters here.” " It makes me wonder if this is another negotiation tatic by Amazon to get the final city to shell out more incentives. [0] https://twitter.com/publicroad/status/1059533656694362115 https://twitter.com/publicroad/status/1059533656694362115
- mcphage 8y ago> It makes me wonder if this is another negotiation tatic by Amazon to get the final city to shell out more incentives. Alternately, Amazon has liked pitting cities against each other so much, that they decided to keep doing it forever. "City A, we're looking to start a major new project up. City B is willing to offer X, Y, and Z if we launch it in the City B office, are you willing to beat that for us to open it in your office?"
- dunpeal 8y agoThis makes the most sense by far. It gives them more negotiating power, and a lot more flexibility.
- hnmonkey 8y agoAgreed. It certainly seems like this is the case and the end result would be both cities lurching towards becoming massively under Amazon's powerful thumb and dependent on it in the long run (think the Walmart method of dealing with businesses but... slightly bigger).
- newfocogi 8y agoHumorous and insightful, the best kind of commentary. For those who aren't familiar with the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon
- dpflan 8y ago
- nextstep 8y agoI’d bet money on the two being Crystal City, VA and Denver. The DC suburb makes sense for an East Coast hub, and it’s smart to be near the capital for DoD contracts. And Denver is a nice, growing tech city with an attractive lifestyle.
- kevinconaway 8y agoCrystal City is a nightmare from a commuting perspective and an awful place to live. Its more or less a ghost town since BRAC moved out a bunch of agencies and contractors a few years ago. This had the effect of hollowing out what little independent retail / dining there was there as most of it catered to the office lunch crowd. From a commuting perspective, its right across the river from DC which makes it very difficult to get to from a driving / bus perspective. Taking the metro is somewhat better but would require a transfer for many people.
- jandrese 8y agoOn the other hand, having lots of available empty office space just ready to go sounds like a bonus. Retail will move back in once there are customers to serve.
- blueatlas 8y agoAnd there is a large pool of young talent a couple of metro stops north in Arlington.
- taurath 8y ago> Its more or less a ghost town since BRAC moved out a bunch of agencies and contractors a few years ago. This had the effect of hollowing out what little independent retail / dining there was there as most of it catered to the office lunch crowd. That seems to match south lake union in Seattle, which used to be warehouses and car dealerships.
- phinnaeus 8y ago
- thebradbain 8y agoI’m biased, but I’ve had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity: 1. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is the only other region that has two cities being considered 2. DFW airport is one of the US’s busiest airports, and American Airlines is headquartered there, so you can get a direct flight to anywhere in the country in 3 hours tops. Amazon already has multiple warehouses here and also ships freight through DFW and other airports in the area. 3. Public transit (Dallas has the largest light rail network south of DC), continued investment, world class museums, and honestly a pretty hip city with a lot of activity in the center, not unlike Seattle. Also lots of millennials moving there for its low cost of living and ample jobs. 4. You can’t beat Texas’ business environment — Bezos even praised it when he spoke at a business conference at SMU earlier this summer. 5. Establishing two offices will give Amazon influence in two places, and covering Seattle (West Coast), DC/NoVa (East Coast), Texas (South) gives them nationwide influence.
- gnomesteel 8y agoThere's a reason so many companies are moving to DFW.
- xrd 8y agoCan you elaborate on the Texan business environment? This is often lauded by Texas politicians. What makes it different and possible, since it obviously isn't being duplicated in other cities.
- excalibur 8y agoFor some reason archive.is has four versions of this article stored, all with the paywall intact. This works https://outline.com/pvJPEz https://outline.com/pvJPEz
- tomphoolery 8y agoThis was broken when I had content blocking on, turning it off did the trick...
- xchaotic 8y agoSomewhere near DC is must to cater for DoD and other federal government contracts
- NN88 8y agoi dont even understand what this means
- dpeck 8y agothe Boston Atlanta Metropolitan Axis is clearly getting HQ2.
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoAnother great example of why cities shouldn't be selling out their residents to attract one of these large companies there. They'll never get their value out of it. Here Amazon changes the game to half the benefits after most of the discussions of incentives have been had. Side by side with this story, it's hard to see why states and cities are still willing to play ball: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wisconsin-plant-jobs-deal-subsidy-governor-scott-walker https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wiscons...
- ohsik 8y agoSo where is the city for Amazon HQ2? :)
- insta_anon 8y agoCreating a bookmark with the following text will get you around the paywall: javascript:window.location.href='https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u='+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);
- oh-kumudo 8y agoThis drama is getting ridiculous. HQ2-1, and HQ2-2? What does HQ even mean then? Even if they are called HQ, it is hard for me to imagine they can function as one.
- monocasa 8y agoHQ-2 and HQ-B? Coin flips of course landing on the opposite sides at the other HQ.
- Johnny555 8y agoEven if they are called HQ, it is hard for me to imagine they can function as one. This is true of any large corporate campus -- 25,000 people at one site are not one cohesive unit, there are plenty of competing projects. And you still end up using video conferencing even with people in the same campus because no one wants to take a 15 minute walk to the building on the other side of campus for a 30 minute meeting.
- mxuribe 8y agoSure, some business have multiple "HQs"...in that they split where some of their major divisions are "headquartered". For example, maybe the original HQ in Seattle is where Jeff B. sits, but maybe the crystal city HQ (if that's one of them) is where AWS - as a business/major division - is "headquartered", etc. Oh, and i would venture a guess that they likely will name them something like HQ1, HQ-East-1, HQ-West-1, HQ-South-1, etc. ;-)
- philsnow 8y agowith certain AMZN HQ services[0] only available in HQ1 / HQ-NorthWest-1 [0] like AMZN GetPromoted or AMZN WorkOnTheProjectYouWant
- mxuribe 8y agoMy dayjob employer is currently kicking off a 150-year project to validate whether the AMZN GetPromoted service is worthwhile to eventually implement internally. But, alas, already there are project delays. ;-)
- dpflan 8y agoThe article mentions first that the move is motivated by recruiting tech talent. Seattle is far-away in the eyes and minds of most Americans I would bet. Splitting means they are probably going after northeast and south/east. Check out this population density map from the US census: > https://www.census.gov/history/www/reference/maps/ https://www.census.gov/history/www/reference/maps/ From the article: "The driving force behind the decision to build two equal offices in addition to the company’s headquarters in Seattle is recruiting enough tech talent, according to the person familiar with the company’s plans. The move will also ease potential issues with housing, transit and other areas where adding tens of thousands of workers could cause problems."
- fipple 8y agoHQ2 was never going to be a true second HQ but now it’s not even going to be close. Cities just fellated Amazon for a satellite office.
- linkerzx 8y agoSeems like quite a bit more than a satellite office, but not quite close to another HQ. Really curious to see what kind of jobs will end up in these HQ2A and HQ2B.
- pgwhalen 8y agoMy guess is that it’ll be like google in NYC. Quite substantial, but obviously no Mountain View.
- linkerzx 8y agoI think for New-York as an HQ there is quite some better chance for Amazon to build some serious operations. They already have Qusidi in New Jersey, which they might be looking to consolidate.
- Kephael 8y agoThe only HQ is where the CEO sits.
- TomMarius 8y agoWhat if the CEO has a standing desk? Just kidding. What about completely remote companies, or companies where the CEO is remote?
- why_only_15 8y agoHow many companies exist where the CEO is remote? If you're being hired for that important of a job, you're almost certainly willing to move.
- floatingatoll 8y agoThis leak would be a terrific way to catch a leaker, if delivered to a single individual under circumstances where all others present are aware it’s a test.
- bitxbit 8y agoI am pretty sure they decide to split into two and effectively double the benefits (tax) they will receive.
- dmode 8y agoAmazon is playing cities like chump. I had a sense in the beginning of this process that Amazon doesn’t really want to build a HQ2. They just want to open another office. Most large tech companies have large campuses across multiple cities. This exercise is no different than that. But Bezos branded it HQ2 to maximize handout. I also predict that they will end up hiring far less than the 25k projected. There is a recession coming in the near future, which could result in Amazon looking for cheaper developers globally.
- rezashirazian 8y agoTrying to find cheap engineering is not a last ditch effort Amazon is going to resort to because there is a recession. They have already expanded their engineering foot print in India and have continued to look beyond the US market when it comes to talent.
- dunpeal 8y agoUnimaginable that Amazon doesn't already do everything it absolutely can to reduce its engineering payroll, which is probably its biggest expense. Without knowing anything about them, one would assume they're already tapping global talent pools with maximum aggression. If anything, recession in the US may increase the supply and lower the cost (salaries) of American developers, thus making them more competitive against other countries.
- standerman 8y ago"There is a recession coming in the near future, which could result in Amazon looking for cheaper developers globally." It's dangerous to post speculative things with such certainty. The future is never guaranteed.
- sauwan 8y agoWell, I don't think it's speculative to say that a recession is coming. Predicting exactly when is hard, but isn't it a near virtual certainty that it will happen?
- hnaccy 8y agoHow do bookies decide if they need to payout or not in this case?
- TheBiv 8y agoWhat happens when a material event occurs that vastly changes the outcome is that they just return the money.
- partiallypro 8y agoWhy stop there? Just scatter HQ2 into every city and municipality dumb enough to give Amazon millions-billions in tax breaks and incentives.
- rzzzt 8y agoGPS software will then guide you to the nearest HQ2 via anycast routing.
- acjohnson55 8y agoI've still got Newark on the brain. Assuming one half of HQ2 is in NoVa, Newark is a very easy train or flight away.
- donald123 8y agoSo Amazon HQ2A and HQ2B?
- filereaper 8y agoCan't speak for the other cities but there's been a steady expansion of Amazon in Toronto. I suspect in the end they'll keep expanding in a quiet and steady pace while never officially declaring a "HQ2" at all whilst the cities feud over who gets the title and keep handing out incentives.
- johan_larson 8y agoYou'd think the low salaries and easy immigration would have put TO over the top.
- filereaper 8y agoIIRC there was some concern that HQ2 should be on American soil or withstand the backlash of the current political climate.
- poulsbohemian 8y agoBig companies are funny animals in that they appear on the surface to make short-term decisions to appease the market, but behind the scenes tend to plan out a decade or more. A good fifteen or more years before Boeing moved their HQ out of the Seattle area and moved significant production elsewhere, they were putting out messages to suburban governments where they had smaller plants to not count on them being around. I would bet Amazon or any other company thinking of a move of this magnitude has a plan that stretches well beyond 2020.
- kc10 8y agoWould it be HQ2 and HQ3? or HQ2.1 and HQ2.2? I hope they don't end up like a hydra with 9 heads. The whole HQ thing doesn't make any sense. It's just another office location.
- sergiotapia 8y agoHope it comes down here to Miami. Imagine the talent pool! Easy access to south american engineers
- whb07 8y agoThere’s very little “talent” native to Miami. As far as S.A engineers that’s also probably a tough one...I mean staffing a HQ with foreigners is a tough sell, don’t you think? If anything Miami is still alluring to those across the US for warm weather, no income tax, and tanned guys/gals (or both?!). The Miami economy still is dominated by tourism and real estate unfortunately!
- goshx 8y agoNo income tax?
- mcculley 8y agoI have been wondering if any of the cities that proposed will make their proposals public once the final decision has been made. My own city, Orlando, released only a redacted version of the proposal. How should cities and states manage the tension between their duty to transparency and the competitive advantage of keeping proposals secret?
- the_reformation 8y agoAll these kneejerk comments about this being phase 3 in Bezos' grand plan to defraud America's wealthiest cities- I do not understand. No cities have committed anything to Amazon and can volunteer to walk away or attempt to renegotiate if they so wish. Not much of an grand master plan.
- philistine 8y agoThe crux of the issue is that every big metro center in North America gave Amazon a list of incentives they were willing to provide. Next time Amazon negotiates with any city for any development, it can mine this private treasure trove of extremely potent information about how much each city is willing to bend over. Wouldn't you agree that knowledge is power?
- ghobs91 8y agoMy money's on DC area and NYC area. DC for the gov contracts, NYC for the talent pool (Columbia, Cornell Tech, and NYU) and transit network.
- mikeash 8y agoThat would also make it very convenient to travel between the two, since DC and NYC are so well connected. Dozens of planes and trains every day (including what passes for “high speed” trains in this country) and it’s reasonable to drive too.
- lotsofpulp 8y agoNYTimes claims you could be right! https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/technology/amazon-second-headquarters-split.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/technology/amazon-second-...
- ghobs91 8y agohaha would you look at that!
- dunpeal 8y agoThe whole "HQ2" festival was dubious from the start, especially in light of this announcement. Other similar companies - e.g. practically all FAANGS - just have one large HQ, and several smaller offices in various locations to tap into local talent. How is Amazon exceptional such that it needs this special "HQ2" office? This never made much sense for them... Except as a big PR fanfare to drum up huge benefit packages from cities on their various long/short candidate lists. So now they cut the prospective office sizes in half. Will the benefit packages be cut in half? Probably not.
- johan_larson 8y agoHere are two scales, two buckets, and two knives. Whoever bleeds the most, gets the HQ.
- burlesona 8y agoYep. You might enjoy this take on it: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/2/6/in-the-amazon-hq2-contest-the-winner-might-actually-be-the-loser https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/2/6/in-the-amazon-h... This thing already feels like a boondoggle and it hasn't even officially happened.
- codegoblins 8y agoI guess they couldn't get Garbagetown, Kansas to defund their public school system enough for Jeff Bezos's liking.
- cauldron 8y agoCan't wait the battle for Amazon HQ3.
- SQL2219 8y agoThe DC metro is as expensive as Seattle. Tough to recruit into those high cost of living areas.