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When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• maxehmookau 8y ago
  Duh.
• S0ckpupp3t 8y ago
  A drug more benign than alcohol. Smoke too much, take a nap. Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Drink too much, you get flu symptoms. Drink too much too often, you get a new liver, or die.
  • narzu 8y ago
    The fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't mean we should legalise all drugs that are somewhat healthier than alcohol and tobacco. I think we can do much better.
    • mnx 8y ago
      Invent better drugs?
      • geff82 8y ago
        Invent a better way of life so reality is the coolest thing possible.
        • mbrock 8y ago
          There’s nothing other than reality. Drugs are part of reality. Have been for millenia.
        • pbhjpbhj 8y ago
          Define "coolest". If parts of reality are better than others this is probably due to internal responses. Every bit of sense-data modifies the internal brain state. It follows that with sufficient control we can modify the brain, or the sense-data to create an experience akin to the coolest parts of whatever way of life we make. Your considerations on whether synthetic reality is better, and whether all reality is effectively synthetic will then inform your conclusion on this meaning a modified view can always in theory beat reality. In practice one will probably just chase a bigger high until the high is so risky that it eventually kills you.
        • deathclassic 8y ago
          Drugs are the some of tools I use to make reality the coolest thing possible.
    • CosmicSteve 8y ago
      We can do much better? What the hell does that mean? More drug prohibition? Yeah, that's been working out just peachy. Portugal's decriminalization of all drugs has led to a sharp drop across the board in drug usage and an increase in effective rehabilitative outcomes.
      • rv-de 8y ago
        I believe that we should expect responsible behavior from adults. Only this way a society can also develop responsibility. By prohibiting everything that is dangerous (or just considered as such) humans never actually get a chance to grow up.
        • umvi 8y ago
          It's sort of a balancing act between building safety rails so that people don't accidentally fall off cliffs while hiking while also allowing people the agency to free climb El Cap if they so choose...
          • rv-de 8y ago
            You totally make a valid point. But I would literally remove all those safety rails. People just have to keep a safe distance from the edge of the cliff.
            • moorhosj 8y ago
              Isn't it likely that the rails were put in place as a response to people not keeping a safe distance from the edge of the cliff? I often see this assumption that regulations appear from thin air as a way to keep people down. It seems more possible that they primarily come as a result of witnessing the reality of what happens with no regulations.
              • rv-de 8y ago
                I think the prevalent assumption on HN is that every regulation can be traced back to some accident or mistake. It is impossible to put safety rails everywhere (both literally and metaphorically). Some people will try to make selfies on the edge and fall to their death - very tragic - but why do I have to keep those people alive with my tax payments or even be annoyed from the sight of a rail in the middle of nature. I also think that most accidents happen from overtrusting a safety gear - safety rails would sometimes fail. Typical example is the safety belt in cars - people suddenly drove faster. Or with helmets - rugby is less physically harmful than American football due to less protection. The examples refer to the mindset, though - of course I use safety belts but I also don't get too close to the edge of a cliff.
    • zaroth 8y ago
      “Do much better” is a platitude - it conveys zero information as to what you actually believe should be done differently.
      • narzu 8y ago
        We should move towards the elimination of all drugs. Prohibition has worked wonderfully well for tobacco in many countries, cutting consumption in half and even more.
        • geff82 8y ago
          I just upvoted your comment because it is the truth and most probably you will be heavily downvoted for not being mainstream :)
          • PhasmaFelis 8y ago
            It is literally false. There are only two countries with actual tobacco prohibition, Bhutan and Turkmenistan, and only since 2005 and 2016, respectively. We have decades of evidence from dozens of countries that total prohibition of recreational drugs is disastrous. Sensible regulation is what's needed.
        • sigi45 8y ago
          And? It is not your choice to tell me if I wanna get buzzed or not. I don't mind others smoking. I mind wrong advertising, advertising to kids, cigarettbutts, the stink etc.
          • narzo 8y ago
            Actually yes, it's society's choice to tell you what you can do or not. Deal with it, or maybe go to live to Liberland.
            • deleted 8y ago
              [deleted]
    • chickenfries 8y ago
      Prohibition doesn’t work. Legalization and regulation do. Alcohol and Tobacco are the proof. We can do much better than a cure which has shown to be worse than the disease.
      • geff82 8y ago
        Legalization mostly works in the way that more people consume it. (punishing the use does not lead anywhere either).
        • bryanlarsen 8y ago
          There are very definitely ways to do decriminalization that result in lowered usage: Portugal and heroin is the standard example.
        • sergiosgc 8y ago
          This was proven false by the Portuguese drug decriminalization program.
          • icebraining 8y ago
            Decriminalization is not legalization, though. It still makes it harder to access the stuff, for example, and risky to grow your own. Not that it's especially hard to buy pot in Portugal, but still, can't exactly get it at the corner store.
        • krrrh 8y ago
          Legalization of cannabis in the The Netherlands lowered usage amongst teens. Making pot less accessible to teens was one of Trudeau’s primary arguments for legalization in Canada. Street dealers have a lot of reasons to not ask for ID.
    • jerf 8y ago
      We have done much better. Look at tobacco usage. It hasn't plummeted because it was outlawed. I don't think we'd necessarily get the same plummet with marijuana, because the health story isn't quite as uniformly bad, and I get the sense that pot users don't get as acclimated as cigarette users, who seem to be smoking not to feel good but to avoid withdrawal. (Just on the drug's own terms, tobacco is a really bad deal; the ratio of "high" to harm is just atrocious. If it wasn't so addictive nobody would use it on a regular basis.) But we could probably get some improvement if the messaging got more realistic. And by "improvement" I don't just mean "less", but better; less adolescents smoking some of their most important cognitive years away, more people using THC for correct medicinal uses, and if one chooses to smoke it recreationally, better informed choices. I'm in favor of legalization, because marijuana prohibition is not as bad as alcohol prohibition was, but it's the same sort of thing even if less of it. I still plan on telling my children quite strongly the best move is not to play.
      • beaconstudios 8y ago
        as an ex-smoker who sometimes relapses for short periods, for me it's not to avoid withdrawal. It relieves stress and anxiety, and also gives me an excuse to step out of the office for a few minutes for a break or to collect my thoughts.
        • chosenbreed 8y ago
          > It relieves stress and anxiety, and also gives me an excuse to step out of the office for a few minutes for a break or to collect my thoughts. Should we really need excuses to step out of the office to get some fresh air, collect our thoughts, etc for a few minutes? I think there is much to be said about cigarettes relieving stress and anxiety...
          • ThePadawan 8y ago
            As often as it is mocked, this is one of the things I really value in the whole "micro kitchens away from the open-plan office" lies.
          • 8y ago
    • sigi45 8y ago
      Legalizing is doing better. Also society doesn't has the right to keep some drugs illegal while keeping others legal. Stop criminalising someone who chose another drug than you prefer. Illegal should it be when it harms others.
      • geff82 8y ago
        There is a big difference between criminalising/punishing people and hyping drugs as all those cannabis activists do. Smoking may be your personal choice - but I honestly think it would be bad for society if the majority did it. There is a reason that under current law using/selling drugs is punished: society as a whole might suffer.
        • folkrav 8y ago
          Those "cannabis activists" are most likely a (very vocal) minority... I don't know of anyone that _seriously_ hypes pot as a safe thing, and we have a lot of smokers here in Quebec (last official numbers were ~15% in 2015, pretty sure it's actually higher than that), so it's not hard to find one. There was probably "alcohol activists" back in prohibition, so I'd say this could also be a side-effect of its illegal status. > There is a reason that under current law using/selling drugs is punished There was also a law that prohibited alcohol for a time. I am also prohibited under Canadian law from pretending to practice witchcraft. Talking about differences, there is a big difference between legal and legitimate.
        • josefresco 8y ago
          "There is a reason that under current law using/selling drugs is punished: society as a whole might suffer." Hate to break it to you, but the "war on drugs" was and is really a war on minorities, and a war against alternatives to prescription drugs (among about a half dozen other nefarious reasons). When I was 12 I would have believed that "drugs are bad and what's why they're illegal" - I'm no longer 12.
        • sigi45 8y ago
          You know why its getting hyped? Because its fucking illegal! Have you ever seen a protestor doing a slightly active protest? No. You hype it. Srsly make it legal, disallow certain ways of advertising it, done.
    • mcny 8y ago
      > The fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't mean we should legalise all drugs that are somewhat healthier than alcohol and tobacco. I think we can do much better. You're right. We can do better. I think it shows our hypocrisy. Nobody should get a fine or go to prison for possession of drugs. I think what we should focus on is distribution/sale of controlled substances without a proper label. I don't do drugs so maybe I am out of touch but this is my opinion. Possession of anything should not be a crime (improper storage of hazardous material is a different story). If you insist on sending people to prison for smoking pot, you might as well get ready to send me to prison for eating too much candy.
      • narzo 8y ago
        There already are many places where the selling of sugar and caffeine-ridden products is controlled.
        • pennaMan 8y ago
          You seem to be aggressively pushing a political agenda in this thread by making several consistent generalist statements without providing a single source of evidence.
        • mcny 8y ago
          > There already are many places where the selling of sugar and caffeine-ridden products is controlled. I think you are moving the goal posts here. For one, I fully support regulation. By regulation, I mean education and truth in advertising. People should absolutely have their assets stripped and sent to prison for life for false advertising and bribing/intimidating researchers to produce bad science or knowingly lying about their products in general. Additionally, I am not talking about putting people in prison for selling mislabeled candy. I absolutely support legislation that sends people to prison for life for selling candy that is not labeled properly or has a labeling inconsistent with its contents. I am talking about imprisoning ME for possessing sugar and caffeine-ridden products that I intend to eat or serve to my guests at home. Are you willing to arrest me for eating candy? Are you willing to search me "randomly" on the streets because you think I have candy in my pockets?
    • stmfreak 8y ago
      The fact that my kids can get illegal drugs more easily than alcohol is what worries me. Making drugs illegal isn’t helping. Addicts need support services, not punishment.
      • noobly 8y ago
        This. Drug dealers don't care if you're 7 or 70. I could get a dimebag in 5 minutes anytime in high school. Alcohol, on the other hand, took weeks of planning to obtain.
    • mylons 8y ago
      legislating morality isn't much better. it's draconian and often theocratic.
    • thrower123 8y ago
      Tobacco shows probably the most effective way to reduce consumption of something - make it legal, but put heavy sin taxes on it. It's hard to keep a heavy cigarette habit going when a pack of Marlboros is like $10. I don't smoke marijuana, but I'd like to see it legalized, if for no other reason than to shift law enforcement resources to more important things - when people are dying every day from Fentanyl overdoses, busting pot smokers and growers is asinine.
      • josefresco 8y ago
        Heavy taxing and regulation will be (and is) a boon to the cannabis black market. In my state (MA), cannabis was legalized, but individual towns are preventing recreational shops from opening. The result? A booming, home-grown cannabis market.
    • Taylor_OD 8y ago
      Why? Why shouldnt we legalize all drugs that are healthier than drugs we have already deemed healthy enough to be legal?
    • honkycat 8y ago
      Humans have always done drugs. We have smoked pot specifically for thousands of years. Why do you want to keep adults from making decisions about what to put into their body?
    • passwordreset 8y ago
      That argument is backwards. If marijuana is illegal for the stated reason that it has negative health affects, then everything that has worse affects should also be illegal.
    • int_19h 8y ago
      Sure, we can do much better. For example, how about we recognize that bodily autonomy is a fundamental human right, and that includes deciding what to put into said body?
  • jlawson 8y ago
    >Smoke too often, cut down and get sharp again. Unfortunately not. If you spend a long time smoking you'll end up permanently slower in the brain. Also, let's not forget our friend lung cancer.
    • geff82 8y ago
      And also let's not forget that about everyone with big psychological problems in my peer group started to smoke early on (and developed mental health problems later).
      • kranner 8y ago
        That's just correlation. Maybe they started smoking early on because they had big psychological problems already.
        • mbrock 8y ago
          There might also be some risk of psychological damage when you use a criminalized substance that has anxiety as a common side effect. For example, it's easy to see how that could make you a bit reclusive. So anyone who's really concerned about the mental health of cannabis users is obliged to consider the damaging effects of its very criminality. (There are all kinds of other factors. Like cannabis use being correlated with higher trait openness, which has its own particular correlations with certain personality disorders, et cetera.)
          • toyg 8y ago
            Not to mention that such criminalized substance might well have been mishandled by criminal resellers with no regard for public health. Any time one buys a criminalised substance, it's like he was going to eat a box of unlabelled chocolate: maybe it's safe to eat, or maybe it's full of rat excrement - you don't know until it's too late.
        • geff82 8y ago
          It might "just" be a correlation but it might be heavily interconnected. If you have data proving your "just correlation", please provide them.
  • empath75 8y ago
    I mostly agree with that, but I think we should definitely still be telling teens not to smoke pot, or really take any psychoactive drugs. And I say this as someone who has done a lot of them. Given that a lot of adults find it impossible to use drugs responsibly, teens definitely should be avoiding them. I also think we should be doing it honestly and not telling them that their brain is going to immediately leak out of their ears and they're going to start turning tricks on corners to pay for their next hit. "Hey, pot is going to temporarily make you dumber. Maybe don't use it a lot while you're trying to get through school. Thanks."
    • sigi45 8y ago
      We should also tell them not to drink alcohol.
      • geff82 8y ago
        I do and live by my words.
    • toyg 8y ago
      > we should definitely still be telling teens not to smoke pot, or really take any psychoactive drugs. And I say this as someone who has done a lot of them. Man has this annoying tendency not to believe facts unless they are experienced directly. You can tell teens what you want and they will still do what they want, especially if they know you did the same and ended up alright. I agree that honesty is the best policy, teenagers can smell hypocrisy from miles. Another good policy is to make experimentation safe, so everyone can make his or her mind up without risking potentially fatal or life-altering contact with the worst elements of society. I personally think public education should also have a dedicated subject on the topic of addiction, be it to drugs, food, gambling, videogames, and whatnot. An economic system based on profit will inevitably thrive on addiction, often at the expense of public health. Surviving contact with addictive impulses is a life skill that gets more and more essential every day.
      • mbrock 8y ago
  • sjg007 8y ago
    Alcohol also impacts cognitive function as well. Both in the moment and for days after.
  • geff82 8y ago
    Smoke once and it will be detectable in your body for weeks, drink once and no one will ever detect it in a linear number of hours after. The body has enzymes for alcohol, but non for pot. Drinking too much too often is another problem, of course.
    • leesec 8y ago
      Detectable by who? Certainly not by anyone without a lab after a day or so.
    • sigi45 8y ago
      And?
      • geff82 8y ago
        And? It's ok if you do not care. But I wanted to make clear that for the body there is a difference between alcohol and other drugs as alcohol, to the body, is mostly just another nutrient (I mean almost all ripe fruits contain a certain amount of alcohol, yet we eat them without problems).
        • supadupa888 8y ago
          You do know that there are endocannabinoids present in your body, right? And also drug tests for cannabis detect the presence of cannabinoid metabolites, not THC itself. Your opinion does not sound informed.
        • sigi45 8y ago
          Weed is very natural. Very old. Alcohol is responsible for many illnesses. It is NOT 'just another nutrient'. There is a difference between a few slight trails of alcohol vs. what we drink.
          • jfk13 8y ago
            "It's very natural" is utterly irrelevant to the question of whether (or to what degree) it may be harmful. Belladonna salad, anyone? Mushroom & pepperoni pizza made with Amanita phalloides?
  • lou1306 8y ago
    Still, being "more benign" does not imply that it won't have any effect on a developing brain.
    • heurist 8y ago
      I don't think anyone is saying it wouldn't. But it is worth noting that usage among teens in Colorado has been declining since legalization: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/follo... Perhaps reducing the black market and reassuring that the option will be open to them down the line makes the drug less accessible and less immediately desirable.
      • dclowd9901 8y ago
        The implication was there and it was worth calling out. I’ve heard surprisingly little about the negative effects of marijuana in general conversation, to the extent that it seems to be above reproach (for some unknown reason).
    • mylons 8y ago
      brake dust causes dementia. if you live in a city, you're killing yourself from teh air you breath.
      • dclowd9901 8y ago
        Totally the same as actively choosing to smoke weed.
      • PhasmaFelis 8y ago
        The lesson there should be "brake dust is a big problem," not "marijuana is not."
  • simion314 8y ago
    AFAIK the smoke is still a cause for cancer.
    • moate 8y ago
      So is the carbon on cooked foods. It's not good to breath solid carbon particles into your lungs, or ingest them into your body. But most people find it reasonable to cook food, because it tastes better. That's not to say that these aren't things people should be aware of. They should know this and it will help them make the adult choices they want (smoke vs consumables vs other methods). Just so you know, yes, smoking it causes cancer but it's not on anywhere near the same level as smoking tobacco cigarettes due to how tobacco is treated.
      • simion314 8y ago
        I am not a smoker so I do not know the details but isn't electronic cigarettes better because they have no smoke, the smoke is the main bad part? I may be wrong and tabacoo causes cancer even without the smoke? If pot is legalized it should have same packaging as cigarettes that tells clear that smoke causes cancer, and also should tell all the side effects (because I see here on HN how good weed is, especially for creativity but the person is not mentioning all possible downsides)
        • moate 8y ago
          Vaporizing is better than smoking because it creates fewer carbon particles. Also there's fewer carcinogens (we're pretty sure on this one, but people like to argue about it) in pot than in tobacco. Another point is that you don't need to inhale at all, you could ingest since THC is alcohol and fat soluble. Many people find this to be a good way to imbibe because it's a more controlled dosage (if I use 1 LB of the same type of weed to make my edibles, each cookie should have the same effect on me vs smoking which is always some level of guess work) The packaging would likely exist as it does for all drugs/controlled substances with a lot of warnings about health risks and impaired driving. There is MUCH hand wringing about making sure everyone is WELL aware that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good.
  • 5trokerac3 8y ago
    "more benign" !== "benign" Everyone I know that smokes daily (a lot of people) is less cognitive than those I know who don't smoke, in every arena except artistic pursuits. And not everyone reacts to weed the same way. I decided to quit when I recognized a lessened ability to solve complex coding questions the day after smoking.
    • tosser8398b9 8y ago
      I’ve had many programming design breakthroughs while lifted. Write ‘em down, check ‘em the next day - many remain awesome (and some are confused). Something about the heightened ability to focus on a single thing, deeply. As you say - it’s a deeply personal thing. I also never actually smoke anymore. Edibles FTW
      • 5trokerac3 8y ago
        One might consider that an artistic/creative revelation. Weed is definitely good for that. "Why is this code breaking?" Not so much...
        • deleted 8y ago
          [deleted]
        • RIMR 8y ago
          For you. Carl Sagan touted pot's ability to help him with abstract mathematics, so YMMV.
          • fhood 8y ago
            Abstract mathematics, and finding bugs, are not terribly closely related skills.
            • vokep 8y ago
              They are in that they both require abstract thinking, working in rigid systems.
  • IMTDb 8y ago
    Watch the MRI scan of a 35 yo alcoholic and the MRI scan of a 35 yo heavy pot smoker then do the comparison again. The liver can more or less heal itself until it's too late. The brain, not so much.
    • josefresco 8y ago
      88,000* people die each year from alcohol-related causes in the United States. Clearly there's more to worry about than your "self healing liver". Also, citation needed for your claim about MRI/brain activity. * https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co...
      • IMTDb 8y ago
        I never ever said that alcohol is nothing to worry about. I just said that the liver heals better than the brain Please refrain from putting word in my mouth (or anyone) in the future. Sample Citation for the MRI : https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/2/287/1944376 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/40/2/... And if your next point is "yeah but we know nothing about the long lasting effects after your stop", nature has you covered : https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201744 https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201744
        • moate 8y ago
          From the Abstract: "Future longitudinal studies could help determine whether cannabis use contributes to these observed shape differences or whether they are biomarkers of a vulnerability to the effects of cannabis that predate its misuse." Also, the liver doesn't "heal better" than the brain. If anything, the problem is that Cirrhosis isn't really detected until too late. I would counter that more things cause brain damage than liver damage. Finally, the last study you point to references two other studies that found OPPOSITE results in its discussion, so trying to say that is the definitive answer is scientifically disingenuous. Your data doesn't even help your cause dude. It just shows that further research is needed before going out and making "case closed" proclamations.
  • dfxm12 8y ago
    The article is about middle and high school aged kids. Many places don't let them drink alcohol for similar reasons described in the article either.
  • gammateam 8y ago
    ITT: people talking about anecdotes and rebuttals to anecdotes using different time scales, time frames, usage scales, age ranges, statistics in different ranges and also totally incorrect information good one, hackernews
    • LMYahooTFY 8y ago
      Agreed, if these anecdotes weren't stated in the same manner empirical evidence is typically stated I would not be concerned. It makes for a muddy discussion at best.
      • theWheez 8y ago
        Ideally legalization will remove this pop science and anecdotal experience presented as fact, as more studies can nail down what this drug is actually doing to people.
• geff82 8y ago
  <irony>Who would have thought this!</irony> While enzyms in the human body are totally able to cope with alcohol and (which I absolutely do not favor either, for the record), the human body has to "wash out" the remains of pot in the synapses of the brain (which is why there is ZERO alcohol in the blood after a few hours but even after months, smoking pot can sometimes be detected in urine). I personally have a big problem with really punishing people for smoking pot, I see no sense in it. Yet I see no sign why there should be more people smoking it. Recently a friend came up to me and told me how great cannabis could be for certain health issues. I just replied: 95% of what you tell me could also be accomplished by good old ginger, no need for weed. Also: the regular pot smokers in my class in school are NOT successful people nowadays (if people smoke once or twice a year, of course, there seem to be no big issues concerning their success in life).
  • empath75 8y ago
    I imagine that a lot of successful people you know right now smoke pot and don't tell you about it.
    • geff82 8y ago
      I know some successful people who smoke occasionally (by occasionally I mean 1-3 times a year). Yet, most seem not to do it at all.
      • acct1771 8y ago
        Nobody's ever lied about use of a drug with great stigma.
    • bdcravens 8y ago
      Successful people learn when and how often to enjoy what life has to offer and still remain successful. What was meant by "regular pot smoker" is up in the air, but I interpret that those who smoke a bit more than they should, in the same way you can do that with alcohol (or sex, or food, or HN, or whatever, and still remain successful)
  • 8y ago
• rasengan 8y ago
  The conclusion comes without further study. As an example, Professor Xia Zhang from the University of Saskatchewan discovered, which was further repeatedly verified, that marijuana causes neurogenesis [1]. This is interesting because other non marijuana related studies show that neurogenesis ends after puberty [2]. So, then, could the conclusion not be that the sudden growth of brain cells causes a sudden mismapping of information and memory within the brain causing slight issues with memory recall and retention until the brain is able to cope with and understand the neurogenesis? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/07/591305604/sorry-adults-no-new-neurons-for-your-aging-brains https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/07/5913056...
• toyg 8y ago
  Substance used to numb oneself turns out to actually numb oneself. News at 11. Looking forward to grounbreaking research on "when adolescents give up smoking, their lung capacity quickly improves" and "when adolescents give up alcohol, their liver performance quickly improves".
• brainzap 8y ago
  Is it not related to sleep?
  • ropans808 8y ago
    It is definitely related to sleep. Cannabis disrupts NREM sleep, where memories are ushered from short term memory into your hippocampus. Matthew Walker's excellent book "Why We Sleep" goes into this in some detail, highly recommended. Edit: I should add, many substances disrupt NREM sleep in addition to cannabis, such as alcohol, caffeine, and sleep aids.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• Waterluvian 8y ago
  Maybe this is too reductionist but I once heard someone describe it as, "there's nothing fundamentally dangerous about pot, but one of its (often intended) effects is that is slows our engines down. And some of us need to be firing on all cylinders." School was a tricky time for me. I'm thriving intellectually now, but I was a C- student pretty much 4th-12th grade. I needed those cycles that pot would have robbed me of.
  • zaarn 8y ago
    One the other hand, people who feel like their engines are firing on all cylinders all the time (ie ADHD and friends) might find some relief in a drug that allows them to slow down and switch of their head radio while firing on only one cylinder...
    • leesec 8y ago
      I definitely benefit from this. I find pot to be a great context switcher. Formerly after working on a problem for long hours, when I would go home I would still be immersed in the problem and unable to take my mind off it. Now when I come and have my things in order I warm up a vape bag and put on some jazz and am able to completely detach from work and really just enjoy my nights.
      • nashashmi 8y ago
        I have never understood this concept of detaching from work only to wake up the next day and having to face it. Why would you detach so much? Relaxing is overrated. It deprives you of powers you have developed or will develop, only to make you a more powerless person. And a powerless person can never and should never relax.
        • leesec 8y ago
          Haha, you are on some hyperbole stuff my dude. If you want to work super hard your whole life go for it. I am very satisfied working my 8 hours and then putting that work aside and enjoying my leisure time. I still of course work extra some times or do productive things in my time off, but yeah unless there's a deadline I'm not gonna worry about some work problem on off hours when I can't even make progress until I get back to my work computer anyways. Fear/worry/anxiety is the mind killer and often helps nothing.
• nashashmi 8y ago
  Nothing news here. We all know kids recover quickly. Their minds are still developing and they can shake off whatever bad effects they have accumulated. Title might as well be: When Adolescents Give Up Pizza, their health quickly improves. When Adolescents Give Up bad habits, their behavior quickly improves. When Adolescents Give Up Facebook, their social circle quickly improves.
  • Analog24 8y ago
    What are you talking about? That's a ridiculous overgeneralization. There are plenty of things that kids do NOT recover from and we now know that moderate marijuana use is NOT one of them. edit: emphasized the double negative to prevent further confusion. It could have been phrased better.
    • drawkbox 8y ago
      > There are plenty of things that kids do not recover from and we now know that moderate marijuana use is not one of them. That is a ridiculous overgeneralization. This article supports the opposite. While it is never good for kids to do drugs (including alcohol, smoking/nicotine or too much caffeine), the article takes the reverse point that you are taking here, cognition quickly improves after which is obvious as it would with alcohol, eating less fast food, doing more homework/study etc. Also, that is a broad generalization to say kids never recover... kids were doing more marijuana in the counter culture of the 60s, did those kids never recover who are now adults? You would be hearing about that if so. What needs to happen to protect kids is full decriminalization and legalization because the legal/regulated market handles harm reduction better than the black market, and does a better job of keeping drugs (including alcohol) away from kids. Alcohol for instance would be more dangerous if it was still black market for both kids and adults. Marijuana is a rare drug in that for users tolerance completely resets as the CB receptors are blocked during heavy usage. > If you continue to consume THC, it will have less of an effect on brain functioning because there are fewer receptors for it to act on Those receptors repair themselves after tolerance reset. > Compared to other recreational drugs, cannabis is unique in the speed at which the brain “recovers” following a period of abstinence. Recovery is notably difficult to measure, but we can look at changes in behavior, brain function, and brain chemical receptor levels as a proxy. > A study of daily cannabis users reported that users had reduced CB1 receptors compared to non-users, which increased to around-normal after just two weeks of abstinence. Importantly, this study didn’t assess whether CB1 receptors remained desensitized. However, additional studies demonstrated that withdrawal is more intense when there are fewer available CB1 receptors for THC to bind, suggesting that tolerance is indeed the internalization of CB1 receptors. > Since internalization of CB1 receptors is the predominant consequence of excessive THC consumption, it helps explain why there’s faster brain recovery with cannabis abstinence than many other drugs of abuse. At worst, CB1 receptors become internalized and broken down, in which case they must be reproduced and sent back up to the cell’s surface to recover normal brain function (it should be noted that there can be additional repercussions with substantial use on other brain chemical systems). Alcohol and fast food cause permanent damage to liver and circulation as well as contribute to obesity. Additionally, cannabis may also help against fatty liver diseases [2] and fatty alcohol liver diseases [3]. [1] https://www.leafly.com/news/science-tech/thc-tolerance-heres-why-t-breaks-work-so-quickly https://www.leafly.com/news/science-tech/thc-tolerance-heres... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28441459 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28441459 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29341392 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29341392
• moviuro 8y ago
  GDPR-compliant link: https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=662127406 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=662127406
• nabla9 8y ago
  Pediatric neurology and neurology are different specialties in medicine because developing brains are very different from adult brains. I'm all for legalizing pot and it's just natural that young people _experiment_ with drugs. That does not mean that constant drug use during adolescence should be perceived as normal or harmless.
  • macspoofing 8y ago
    >it's just natural that young people _experiment_ with drugs. Is it?
    • gnulinux 8y ago
      Yes, people are curious. Curiosity is a good thing and experimenting with pot is hardly dangerous. I smoked weed only two times in my life because I was very curious (living in the Bay Area, everyone was smoking it) but decided it's not my thing. I think it's natural.
      • jhwang5 8y ago
        If you're curious, you can try swallowing fire while you're at it.
        • ArrayList 8y ago
          What an incredibly dumb thing to say.
          • macspoofing 8y ago
            Why is that? There is a world of difference between stating that young people are naturally curious, and stating that drug 'experimentation' (or 'experimenting' with some other dangerous activity) by young people is natural.
            • gnulinux 8y ago
• 49para 8y ago
  maybe it's due to Canada legalizing cannabis, but I feel like I've been seeing a lot more "pot is bad" messaging lately. Is this to head off any other countries from thinking about legalization ?
  • jobigoud 8y ago
    I think it's more in the tone of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
  • gnulinux 8y ago
    Pot is a safe drug, safer than alcohol, as insurmountable evidence suggests. This still doesn't mean it's completely safe, as in you can smoke arbitrary amounts without any negative effects. A rational person should read all this evidence and find a good balance between recreation and health. I don't smoke pot because I don't like it that much and the "slowness" it gives me the day after isn't worth the pleasure. I do drink a few times a month because alcohol, even though more dangerous than pot, does give me more pleasure and the day after is usually not bad enough that I wish I didn't drink the day before. It's a personal balance.
• fatlasp 8y ago
  I'm in my 30s and when I gave up pot my cognition quickly improved...
• the-dude 8y ago
  I gave up pot and switched to hashish. Big difference for me. Is hashish commonly available in the US? I get the impression all discussions are about weed/pot.
  • WAthrowaway 8y ago
    It is, but harder to get in non-legal markets (most of the US right now). I work in the industry and the trend seems to be more towards purer concentrates like wax and oil - the margins on those are incredible
    • the-dude 8y ago
      I did a bit of thinking why I have preferred hashish and it might have to do with the way the weed is grown : outdoors in large fields in Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon etc. In other words : not made from indoor/artificial light/heavy strain. Weed sold here in NL is incredibly strong. Too strong. Outdoors / hands off is much smoother.
  • symlinkk 8y ago
    What difference did it make? You basically just said the equivalent of "I gave up beer and switched to liquor. Big difference for me."
    • the-dude 8y ago
      Yeah, sorry about. Hashish : light high. Contemporary weed : heavy stoned.
      • atom-morgan 8y ago
        Is it a lighter high in general? Is the THC actually lower or what? I don't know too much about it. I've only smoked hashish once and it was offered to me.
        • the-dude 8y ago
• dreamdu5t 8y ago
  Breaking news: Teens that sleep, eat healthy, exercise, and abstain from drugs perform better! It’s the scientific discovery of the century!
• thedoops 8y ago
  Like alcohol, if weed is taken close to bedtime it will interfere with the sleep cycle. I wonder how much of the cognitive impact is sleep related?
  • b1r6 8y ago
    I'd love to see more research on this. I may occasionally consume, but one obvious effect is that I remember far less dreams if under the effect prior to sleeping that night. For me this is appreciated because dreaming is a source of mental annoyance the next day. I have heard that it may reduce REM sleep. Consequently, many people who consume regularly then take a break will agree that after stopping they are flooded with more dreams than normal. They may be more intense, realistic, etc. But the effect subsides to normal quickly. Withdrawal is minor to non-existent for such people. Interesting!!
  • erikpukinskis 8y ago
    It also affects your appetite. Calories and cognition are very closely related.
• 40acres 8y ago
  I smoke a lot of weed (it's been legal in Oregon since 2014) and support Nationwide legalization, but I am fully aware of the risks and think we need to be absolutely clear and honest about them. My brother began smoking weed in high school, he smoked so much I'd call it an addiction, eventually he developed what the doctors called substance induced psychosis, he saw and heard things no one else saw. He became really paranoid, it was scary to watch and I promised to myself I would never smoke weed. He's fully recovered and as mentioned before I broke my promise to myself, we should do everything we can to keep weed out of kids hands until they are of legal age to buy it. I'd also like to see the federal government allow for the FDA to research marijuana and it's byproducts, the fact that states are legalizing it without robust research from the FDA is backwards.
• mruts 8y ago
  I just stopped smoking (it's been maybe 2 weeks) after having used for over 10 years (I'm 25). This study gives me some hope that I haven't fucked up things forever.
• wes-k 8y ago
  As a society we need to understand the effects of drugs and inform our citizens. Right now marijuana is a schedule 1 drug, right up there with heroin. This, to me, makes me ignore and distrust these classifications. This is not how we educate our populace on the harms of drugs! We can't expect our youth to make a well informed decision when they are told: 1. Marijuana is a schedule 1 drug 2. Marijuana isn't as harmful as alcohol 3. People < 26 years old, who's brains are still developing, should limit their marijuana use.
• jrowley 8y ago
  Beyond the direct cognitive effects, the increased probability of schizophrenia in people with predispositions to schizophrenia (if you have relatives who are schizophrenic) is staggering. (related: http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/reports/2017/health-effects-of-cannabis-and-cannabinoids.aspx_ http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/reports/2017/health-effects... Additionally, the smoke particulates themselves are really not good for your lungs, and are probably shortening peoples lives. I believe marijuana has a place in society without a doubt, but people need to approach it with caution and try to avoid using it recreationally too frequently. Like most substances (e.g. sugar), it can become psychologically addictive. Related: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-... Personally, I'm a big fan, actually too big of a fan and trying to cut back on my habit right now.
• framebit 8y ago
  A therapist friend recently attended a conference where a big group of doctors and health professionals focused around adolescents presented on the link between pot and the development of psychosis and even schizophrenia in users under age 32 or something like that. I've definitely heard about this colloquially with people reacting very differently to the same strain ("we were all fine but she was just freaking out"), and the new science coming out of places like Colorado seems to be showing a strong correlation in that direction. I guess you could say (colloquially again, since I'm not at all in the medical field) that pot can open a bad door in some people that may have stayed shut otherwise. Is that gene expression? Brain plasticity? Dunno. I think prohibition does way more harm than good and I'm glad to see legalization coming to the states, but I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. One paper on the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2931552/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2931552/
  • deleted 8y ago
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  • BurningFrog 8y ago
    > I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. You're right, of course. But the same is true of peanuts.
    • tachyonbeam 8y ago
      The problem is that the discourse right now is extremely polarized, following the left/right divide in politics. You have people on the right claiming that pot will automatically ruin your life, and (some) people on the left pretending it's completely benign and almost a panacea. I once watched a "documentary" claiming that pot cures cancer! I kid you not. The fact is, it's a substance that affects different people differently. It can cause intense anxiety in some people, and it can severely impair your judgement. Responsible use requires that users be properly informed of the risks. We need to be having a more balanced and honest discussion about this, and many other issues.
• parf02 8y ago
  I took pot when I was 22 and it had disastrous effects on my life for over a year after. Had to seek psychiatric help because of it. Had intense depersonalization and panic effects triggered from the one bad pot experience. It's unfortunate that pot is perceived as being so benign. The psychiatrist told me that cases like me are actually not that rare unfortunately.
  • dmix 8y ago
    Just to be clear you never had anxiety or panic attack issues before? You weren't seeing a psychiatrist before but this experience made you seek one out? I had panic attacks start out of no where when I was around the same age (~21). There was no obvious moment where/why it started but it would keep happening every once in a while. I first used medication (lorazepam, cipralex) but eventually learned mental tactics to deal with it and now I never have them. Although antidepressants did help a lot early on, they killed my sex drive which wasnt a good trade off.
    • parf02 8y ago
      No, I was not seeking help from a psychiatrist before that because I didn't need it before the pot incident :( Fortunately, I do not have panic attacks anymore and learned how to deal with the depersonalization as well.
  • lwansbrough 8y ago
    This happens to a lot of people (my self included) and I’m willing to bet it is at least partially triggered by the paranoia around doing drugs. You were expecting something bad to happen, or were nervous about something bad happening, so it did. I had a similar experience. Eventually learned to control my anxiety and now am I able to come down from the onset of a panic attack before it happens. Weed is no longer an issue for me now that I’m not afraid. Anxiety is a much different issue than psychosis. The psychosis issue is very real but only affects a very small number of people who are predisposed, and even then likely only when they’re young and unlucky.
    • 8y ago
• bitCromwell 8y ago
  Without a distinction between sativa and indica such a study could be dismissed out of hand.
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• edoo 8y ago
  Cannabis slows down certain abstract thinking abilities and you basically think differently for a while. This can be an amazing insightful juxtaposition to normality. I suspect it is the effect on the short term memory centers that make it more difficult to hold complex ideas in your head long enough to find results. I personally do not enjoy critical thinking when partaking. I can feel the deficiency. It does seem to open my creative side, and for me goes best at the end of a long day like a glass of wine or video game.
• milin 8y ago
  > Marijuana, it seems, is not a performance-enhancing drug. DUH
• bishalpaudel 8y ago
  The fact is, when cognition improves they give up the pot.
• newnewpdro 8y ago
  Marijuana interferes with forming new memories, it's a pretty well known effect. Just try having a conversation with someone stoned, you're lucky if they can remember what the subject is one sentence later. Obviously this effect isn't going to complement one's academic life, especially in the early stages where it's mostly rote memorization and testing.
• mysticlabs 8y ago
  Meh what this study doesn't take into consideration is dependent memory states or differential memory states. If you learn something while high, then you often need to get high again to be able to remember it. This happens with everything from antidepressants to alcohol. Why this is always overlooked for cannabis I don't know. For example, if someone where to study high, then get high before taking their test they might perform equally to the sober group or possibly even have improved performance. I know there have been many times when cannabis actually improved my cognition like this in certain circumstances. Anyone who uses cannabis regularly will experience this, so of course if you stop using it completely the testing metrics they use to measure cognition will improve as the sober group becomes more sober their ability to remember what they've learned while sober will improve since they're no longer oscillating between different memory states. What would be really interesting is to take a control group who continues to use cannabis and see how they compare to the kids who you make stop using it. If their cognition remains stable and on par with the sober group with continued use then does this study really mean what they think it means? This study is also limited to THC, which means they're only studying 1 cannabinoid and not the whole plant and how it works with CBD and other cannabinoids. From experience I can tell you that CBD counters many of the negative side effects of THC, as it functions as a neuro-protectant and anti-inflammatory. Had they tested against a variety of cannabinoids and measured which cannabinoids had what effects and then studied the using groups vs. the sober group and how they performed then you could come to a more conclusive argument.
• justaaron 8y ago
  I had the exact opposite experience. I only began to grok a lot of the STEM stuff once I took up regular weed smoking, around the age of 16-18. I did note an initial period in which it was disorienting and novel to be "high", but this subsided. It helps me focus, It helps me cognate by reducing the noise and allowing me to be interested in whatever I put in front of my face. There is a euphoric effect upon taking a puff off the pipe that never goes away (not in over 30 years so far...) This euphoria is associated with learning, focus, getting work done, and a generally positive work cycle of reward. I do not own a television. I have many hobbies, and managed to live from performing original music in over 50 countries for approximately a decade. I study API's and tutorials after dev work before sleeping... I've never been able to be a couch potato, although online social activity (what is this? expression? I'm not sure...useless for sure...) certainly robs a lot of my time and I wish I would have the self-discipline to get away more, so that's all for now lol :D
  • willio58 8y ago
    I've found cannabis helps me be more creative in general. It allows me to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, which is great in some circumstances but bad in others. For example if I want to come up with a design for a website, I usually find that smoking helps me experiment a bit more, focus less on the fine details. But once I'm implementing a design in code? Thats sober time for me.
• peter303 8y ago
  A Colorado study of 5 year trends in pot use found 19% of high school students have used it in the oast month. It is almost same percentage reported in a national survey. The Colorado number was based 47K respondents. http://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2018-SB-13-283_report.pdf http://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2018-SB-13-283_... P.S. Pot use under age 21 is not legal in Colorado.
• camdenlock 8y ago
  By the time I got around to seeing this post, it had exactly 420 points. What a wondrous universe! ... or maybe it was a coordinated effort.
• danschumann 8y ago
  You guys ever see that experiment where they give a mouse sugar, and it can no longer find the island in a pool, causing it to drown? Does weed do this as well?
• imron 8y ago
  In other news, teens who brush and floss they teeth have fewer cavities, and teens who exercise regularly have higher levels of fitness.
• jahitr 8y ago
  I’m one of those people high THC weed changes perception of reality for me. It opens doors and way of thinking that should be locked or shouldn’t exist. CBD in the other hand, improve reasoning. It helped me a lot on many human relations.