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Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines
- socalnate1 8y agoThese all seem to be fairly benign, small scale changes that codify things most airlines do already.
- slowmovintarget 8y agoMost airlines have been shrinking their seat widths to dimensions that are less than the average shoulder span of American men. I'm wondering if the requirement to set seat sizes might help there. Also, the recent incidences of airlines bumping seated passengers in favor of their own staff makes me think the new rules are needed. But 1200 pages! What else is in there? Did we just create a new bureaucracy-in-a-bureaucracy again?
- ghaff 8y agoIt's the entire FAA Reauthorization Act. So it basically specifies everything that the FAA (which is a large federal department) is authorized to do or required to do over the next few years.
- JanSolo 8y agoI like nearly all the things on that list. As someone else mentioned, most airlines already do most of these things; I'm not completely sure that a change in the law was necessary. However, US airlines have a pretty terrible reputation, deservedly in my opinion. Maybe this change will trigger some improvement in the industry? Lets hope.
- markovbot 8y ago>allows the Justice Department, Homeland Security, and other federal law enforcement agencies to hack or shoot down privately owned drones if they deem them a threat they just kinda slipped that one in there... the rest seem pretty benign. Maybe this one: >increases the penalties for interfering with cabin crew or flight crew is there any reason to believe that the current penalties aren't working and that increasing them will fix it?
- macspoofing 8y ago>is there any reason to believe that the current penalties aren't working and that increasing them will fix it? Good question. I cannot imagine anyone daring to mess with the cabin or flight crew in this age.
- markovbot 8y agoThe bloomberg article links an inc.com [0] article outlining some incidents of people interfering with flight crew. None of these seem like the sort of thing where the perpetrator stops and weights the potential punishment vs how much they want to interfere with the crew. They mostly seem to be people acting irrationally for one reason or another. One person was drunk, one person decided to respond to a request to put her tray table away by calling the flight attendant the n word. [0]: https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/the-drunk-passenger-diverted-flight-racial-slur-heres-what-happened-on-these-american-airlines-southwest-airlines-flights.html https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/the-drunk-passenger-diver...
- Old_Thrashbarg 8y agoSeems reasonable to me that they can shoot down drones if they are a threat, at least in theory, hopefully it won't get abused.
- theandrewbailey 8y agoI wouldn't count on it. I wouldn't be surprised if some will understand it as 'shoot on sight'.
- markovbot 8y ago> hopefully it won't get abused. Yeah, it will absolutely be abused. Everything is a "threat".
- ip26 8y agoEven my harmless little drone. Come on, yeah it may have been hovering in the middle of the runway, but I would have moved it if a plane was coming. Sheesh, "threat", what nonsense.
- macspoofing 8y agoLooks like a regular, boring law full of regular, boring regulations. I don't see any issues. >The story of this law has been dominated largely by what isn't in it: no restrictions on what airlines can charge for baggage or change fees. I'm glad. I don't like paying baggage fees (in fact, I've started to travel much more with only a carry-on partly to avoid the fees) but this is one of those things that the market should decide. It's an extra revenue stream for airlines (or an extra perk when waived for those with status). In general gives airlines more options and more flexibility in adjusting ticket prices.
- ranie93 8y agoIs the airline industry disrupt-able enough for market forces to make changes? Consumer choice/efforts are moot in a monopolized sector.
- ghaff 8y agoMarket forces have made changes. They've pretty much demonstrated that people make decisions based on the cheapest base fare. So the airlines have mostly (and even the newer airlines have moved in this direction over time) added baggage fees, board early fees, significant change fees, seat selection fees, etc. The frequent fliers are mostly immune to all this and the family visiting grandma is often going to pick the absolute cheapest flight.
- nostrademons 8y agoNot entirely - in-flight wifi, extra legroom, lie-flat business class, and seatback-controllable entertainment & food service are innovations that have spread across the industry because carriers found that customers will switch airlines to get access to them. In many cases they're even moneymakers, with customers willing to pay extra for them. I think that the industry has generally found that price-discrimination is a powerful tool, though. The business traveler flying Sydney<->SFO on the corporate dime will pay the extra several thousand for lie-flat seats; the upper-middle-class family with bored kids will pay for wifi and tablet holders; but keeping those (and baggage, prime seat selection, early check-in, etc.) optional keeps flying accessible to the working-class laborer who needs to fly home for a funeral.
- giggles_giggles 8y agoI see one of the new regs is this: >bans e-cigarettes from planes; You already can't bring vapes in checked luggage, so what are the nicotine addicted supposed to do? Switch to cigarettes at their destination, since they can't take their vapes along with them? This might be trivial to some folks, but I know people for whom this will be an absolute nightmare. Anyway, this is easy for the non-addicted to see as a non-issue or a minor change, but for those who have nicotine habits, this makes airplanes that much more of a hellish experience than they already are. Worse, it actively punishes the folks trying to get away from smoking analog cigarettes, because it makes it nigh impossible for them to take their substitute when they travel..
- chomp 8y agoEcigs are incredibly annoying to me personally. The vapor is usually some sickly sweet cloud that gets everywhere and I usually smell like jolly rancher or worthers original after being near one. If someone is that addicted, there's gums and patches that should be sufficient. There's over a hundred people sharing that space, and we need to be courteous to everyone else for the small amount of time we're crammed together.
- Falling3 8y ago> There's over a hundred people sharing that space, and we need to be courteous to everyone else for the small amount of time we're crammed together. How do you think this actually change impacts people _while_ on the plane since vapes have already been banned from carry-ons? Your comment doesn't seem to be relevant to this change.
- Jtsummers 8y ago> since vapes have already been banned from carry-ons That's not true. They are allowed on carry-on, but not checked bags. The change only bans their use on planes, not their presence. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/electronic-cigarettes-and-vaping-devices https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...
- sp527 8y agoThis passed overwhelmingly in Congress right? Does the airline industry not lobby properly? I suppose contributions might start rising now.
- derekp7 8y agoThe airlines don't care, and may even support these measures, if it means that their competitors have to follow them also.
- fluxem 8y agoOne of those things is not like the others... > authorizes $1.68 billion for relief for Hurricane Florence, which hit the Carolinas last month;
- djsumdog 8y agoProbably one of those things that's slipped in last minute rather than creating an entire separate bill for it. The same people would probably vote yes on it anyway.
- jaggederest 8y agoI hope the eventual seat pitch/width standards are reasonable. I don't think a seat pitch below 33" or width below 19" are tenable for an average 6' 200 pound male.
- thrower123 8y agoIt would be nice to be able to sit in aisle seats again without having my arm ripped off by the drink cart...
- Jach 8y agoArm or leg, choose one... With so many planes having touch screens on the seat in front of you I wish they'd get rid of the service cart altogether, let people select what they want and then deliver it as convenient.
- tyingq 8y agoSpirit has a horrible 28" pitch. It seems like the most common seat pitch for regular coach is 31" or 32", though it varies by aircraft type and carrier.
- moorhosj 8y agoNot a lot of comments about the tyranny of regulations in this thread. Surprised there isn't more push-back against a law that is almost entirely regulations imposed on businesses and travelers.
- Simulacra 8y agoAirlines, unfortunately, seem to be one of those industries that if you didn't make them do something with regulations, they would never do it. Like the shrinking seats, beating people, dragging them off planes, etc.
- moorhosj 8y agoA 2 for 1, this response contains a logical fallacy and a shifting of goalposts. First, I was told all regulations are bad, this nuance is only coming up now In response to hypocrisy being pointed out. Second, which industries have historically implemented regulations without a legal requirement? The banking, insurance, tech, healthcare and energy industries all seem to fight regulation pretty hard.
- crisnoble 8y agoI'm wondering which two regulations that will presumably be revoked so that this one could get signed. > ...it is important that for every one new regulation issued, at least two prior regulations be identified for elimination... https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-executive-order-reducing-regulation-controlling-regulatory-costs/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential...
- moorhosj 8y agoThe bill has at least 18 regulations according to this article. I’ll be waiting to hear about the 36 we are eliminating. Surely the libertarians and small-government conservatives will demand it.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- quotemstr 8y agoThis law is a bunch of generally-good regulations that address various sorts of minor dysfunctions affecting air travel lately. What really annoys me is how it's pitched on inc.com. Let's look at the inc.com headline, which I quote in full: "President Trump Just Signed a Law That Radically Changes Life for Airline Passengers, Flight Attendants, and Airlines (Almost Nobody Even Noticed) In the middle of the Supreme Court fight, the White House held a Friday afternoon signing ceremony for this new, 1,200-page law" For God's sake, this spin is ridiculous. This wasn't some radical part of Trump's agenda. There's no evidence that the law's signing was intended to deceive the public. The regulations themselves are decent tweaks to existing practice that are consistent with common sense. You'd get a very different impression reading the headline. Granted, I never paid much attention to inc.com before, but I think I'll find a way to pay even less attention to it now.
- bassman9000 8y agoFor God's sake, this spin is ridiculous. Touche. It only increases the dangerous sensation of derangement coming from the media on anything remotely related to Trump.
- empath75 8y agoYeah I went into it expecting to work up a righteous rage and mostly just nodded along agreeing with everything instead.
- bassman9000 8y agoLeaning libertarian, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with any of the listed provisions, except maybe the cell phones one. Looks like ranting for the sake of it.
- aeternus 8y agoWhat's wrong with banning voice calls? It would be incredibly annoying to have to sit next to someone yelling into a phone on a 4+ hour voip call during a flight.
- dnautics 8y agoIt would be more sensible for the airlines to be permitted to ban them (which they all would,unless they are insane) than to have the FAA ban them.
- aeternus 8y agoFair point.
- kalleboo 8y agoDo we really need laws banning anything that is "annoying"? Couldn't airlines just ban it themselves (like airlines ban some pets, naked people, etc)
- Youden 8y ago> mandates that airlines allow passengers to check strollers if they are traveling with small children This one is a little odd to me, especially since the law [0] doesn't mention a limit to the age of the child. I can see where a stroller is considered necessary for the mobility of the child, just as a wheelchair or walking frame might be considered necessary for an adult but every time I visit America, I see parents pushing around children that are far too old for a stroller. It seems really odd to encourage this. There should really be an age limit. I understand that American politics would never accept a reasonable limit like 4 years old but everyone should be able to accept that a 10-year-old doesn't need a stroller. [0]: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/text#toc-HBCBC380574E449358E920817DCF2B3DD https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/...
- oh_sigh 8y agoThis doesn't seem like a big issue. Do you imagine a bunch of parents of 10 year olds abusing this law and taking strollers with them on flights?
- djsumdog 8y agoIt's probably to force people to check them and free up overhead space for bags. With baggage fees there's less and less space up there as everyone tries to cram everything into their carryon.
- craftyguy 8y ago> authorizes $1.68 billion for relief for Hurricane Florence, which hit the Carolinas last month; The fuck does this have to do with any of the other regulations in this law?
- Terr_ 8y agoSince there's no mechanism for conditional voting or enforcing promises, a lot of horse-trading among politicians happens within the context of a single voted-upon item.
- qrbLPHiKpiux 8y ago"... [a]nd for other purposes." A favorite tag-line for junk legislation included in sure-vote bills.
- gwright 8y agoIt is basically a parliamentary procedure hack. An urgent issue can be tacked on to an existing bill that is already farther along in the process. Streamlines the passage. There is also a bit of game theory going on here, by attaching a must pass item to the bill you can get other less favorable items passed at the same time.
- craftyguy 8y ago> by attaching a must pass item to the bill you can get other less favorable items passed at the same time. This should not be allowed. Items in a bill should be passed by their own merit, not by the merits of other 'must pass' things they hang off of.
- noetic_techy 8y ago>>The story of this law has been dominated largely by what isn't in it: no restrictions on what airlines can charge for baggage or change fees. That's a market decision. It really irks me when people demand price controls for innocuous things. All the airlines will do is find another way to make you eat the cost. This should become area where one airline can one up other competition wise.
- Analemma_ 8y agoNo one is asking for price controls, we’re asking for price transparency. The problem with baggage fees etc. is that they are tacked on after you’ve gone through the rigmarole of purchasing your ticket, and the advertised prices are just lies.
- brandonmenc 8y agoBaggage fees are advertised, and everyone knows the ticket price does not include checked luggage. How much more transparent can they get? There is literally no lying whatsoever going on here.
- harryh 8y agoExpedia.com displays baggage fees right in the results list when you do a search for a flight.
- jonny_eh 8y agoNot everyone checks bags.
- jsemrau 8y agoIf the market is fair there is no problem. The moment you get quasi-monopolies the "market" is heavily tilted in favor of the airline. For example if your flight out of Newark is only operated by United Airlines, what choice do you as a market participant do you truly have? [source]https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-business-325e9983e51f https://futuretravel.today/united-airlines-should-go-out-of-...
- elheffe80 8y agoUmm.. no one is commenting on the Office of Spaceports?? This is really freaking awesome! I hope that they get it right. The spaceport in New Mexico is a great idea, I just hope things like this get more growth as we commercialize and exploit the vast resources in space.
- shrimp_emoji 8y agoYes! The delivery drone bit is cool too. Still waiting on the Space Force though.
- elheffe80 8y agoSpace force! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AUXpnB065o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AUXpnB065o
- evo_9 8y agoPl000p !!!!!
- stephengillie 8y agoWhat if the comment is against the article? Are we using the YouTube algorithm, which counts downvotes as upvotes?
- khawkins 8y agoIt would be more "fair" to let people make their own decisions and not assume adding a comment is adding an endorsement.
- fibbery 8y agono ban on emotional support peacocks?
- jlarocco 8y agoI don't like Trump at all, but this kind of "outrage for the sake or outrage" article really makes the media look bad. The worst part of this bill, IMO, is that it includes hurricane relief funds in a bill otherwise targeting minor airline regulations. But otherwise, as far as I'm concerned somebody who'd stuff a dog in an overhead bin and smoke e-cigarettes and talk on the phone all flight deserves to be thrown off the plane.
- khawkins 8y agoStapling bills together has been modus operandi for congress for decades. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's certainly not unique.
- perennate 8y agoTo me the article's tone sounded more surprised at how little coverage there was on the bill, than outraged at the bill's contents. In fact, I thought the article gave a quite positive view of the bill.
- djsumdog 8y agoYea it really did. They could have just left the entire Trump part out really. It's just a bill, that was passed and signed into law. Nothing unusual. It seems to help people and it's weird the Trump administration didn't try to do more marketing around it to make him look better.
- jlarocco 8y agoHonestly, I really don't see why it would get much coverage. Contrary to the article's hyperbole, it doesn't "radically change" anything, and I think most reasonable people would be in favor of the new rules. Mundane laws like this get passed all the time.
- dominotw 8y ago> authorizes $1.68 billion for relief for Hurricane Florence, which hit the Carolinas last month; One of these is not like the other.
- russellbeattie 8y ago"prohibits passengers from using mobile phones to make voice calls during flight" Say what? Is it OK if I use a tablet? Or my laptop? Or my SmartWatch? What if I'm doing video as well?
- gmjoe 8y ago> prohibits passengers from using mobile phones to make voice calls during flight; Interesting... on 9/11 the voice calls from passengers to their loved ones are part of the history. Not like a law is going to stop you... but this feels like an odd thing to make illegal. And what about VoIP?
- BurningFrog 8y ago> requires the FAA to consider whether to allow supersonic airplanes over the continental U.S.; Intriguing!
- Animats 8y agoNah. It's just a requirement to study the issue from a safety perspective.[1] "SEC. 577. Minimum dimensions for passenger seats. (a) In general.—Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, and after providing notice and an opportunity for comment, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall issue regulations that establish minimum dimensions for passenger seats on aircraft operated by air carriers in interstate air transportation or intrastate air transportation, including minimums for seat pitch, width, and length, and that are necessary for the safety of passengers." That just means an aircraft with a tight seat pitch has to pass the aircraft evacuation time test.[1] Some of those tests may need to be rerun. Which is risky; people are injured in evacuation tests. The standards need to be re-evaluated, though, because people are fatter. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/text#toc-H42766A6E73C64E76B8FA188D403BBFCF https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY
- cm2187 8y agoFatter and taller. To me this is the most important piece of (potentially) good news.
- anticensor 8y agoYou can use a mix of un-uniformed soldiers and police force, led by emergency rescuers, to test the evacuation. No civilians need to be harmed to test efficiency.
- Animats 8y agoThe FAA requires that the demographics of the testers in terms of age and gender be comparable to that of the general population.
- taysic 8y ago> prohibits airlines from "bumping" passengers who've already boarded a plane; It's interesting the article says no one noticed these regulations but this one seems like a big deal since there was so much press about those passengers removed off of planes not too long ago.
- mastazi 8y agoThe link is down for me, any alternative link?
- KaiserPro 8y agoIt appears that it bring the US into line with EU law, only ten year too late.
- Codestare 8y agoWhy is 1.6 billion in relief for a hurricane placed in an aviation bill?
- jpttsn 8y agoLaw is a bit like programming. Imagine reviewing commits to a vast codebase on a tight deadline. This feature seems to belong in a different package. It should be factored out. But the code builds, and rejecting the whole pull request would delay shipment.
- choot 8y agoIf they are going to charge fees, i wonder if this can be used for deliverying packets (keep it the unused space you bought). Imagine if we can hand over the packet to a passenger for ultra faster delivery at the other end