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Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%

by arbuge 8y ago

Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases. A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 (both including free shipping but Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax). They can do that because so many people don't price compare anymore before going to Amazon. Not to mention the issues of buying an expensive brand item and getting a fake instead, as well as the large numbers of fake reviews. Indeed, it is pretty hard to get started in Amazon FBA these days when your competitors all have hundreds of glowing reviews for similar products and you have none. They've also moved many items to the add-on category (no more free shipping unless you have $25+ in the cart, even with Prime). My Prime membership expires in a couple months time, and this time I'm not renewing it, after being a member for several years.

hef19898 8y ago
Same impression here. Could turn out to be a worrying trend for Amazon in the Long run. And with the growing fix costs coming with an ever increasing logistics food print and brick and mortar stores, Amazon might end up in tight spot, still an e-commerce leader but not dominating any more.
mtgx 8y ago
Amazon hasn't had the cheapest prices for a few good years now. They're taking advantage of the fact that they have what I like to call "brand inertia". The problem is brand inertia is not infinite. If you no longer do the things that have given you that inertia to begin with, eventually you'll run out of it. When a worthy competitor appears, your customers, who by then will have little loyalty to you, will switch.
- hef19898 8y ago
  One could almost come to the conclusion that Amazon running a global experiment on price elasticity on their complete customer base.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    At any retailer that isn't running that experiment constantly, at least half of the executive team should be fired.
    - hef19898 8y ago
      True that. For normal retailers there is still the competition part which kind of tends to pull prices down. And Amazon has the legendary fly wheel which has lower prices in it. So it kind of seems that Amazon is moving away from the original strategy and becoming an "normal" retailer. Not that investors don't like that, obviously.
- icantdrive55 8y ago
  I don't think it matters to those that can afford the service? Amazon captured peoples trust, and those with funds buy their counterfeit, overpriced goods. Along with that Prime scam. (I have kept track of their portable AM radios for ten years. Every year the price slowely ticket up.). I fell for the Prime scam, until I realized I payed $130 in shipping for two items----along with the movies I never watched. (Amazon prime now sends you a reminder when your membership is due. Two months ago, the customer had the ability to cancel the upcoming month in advance. I don't know if they think we don't notice, or don't care?) Anyhoo, I don't see any competition. Sad? All that VC money being poured into apps that will fail, and no one takes on the beast? Alibaba is not competition for those of us in the states.
- abnry 8y ago
  So clearly there will be some delay in between when brand inertia is still going and competitors haven't caught up, but it does look like Walmart is stepping up its online retail business, so I have hope that Amazon won't maintain near monopoly status.
  - lovich 8y ago
    My local Target has started providing a service where anything you buy in the store can be rung up at the register and then delivered to your home as well. Really gets rid of the friction of buying anything when you live in a city and don't drive to any stores
eganist 8y ago
Apologies in advance for the self-referential commentary: I've put down a long list of reasons for why I've cancelled prime after almost ten years of consistent use. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16937290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16937290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17568320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17568320 If you-the-reader need good reasons to quit prime, I hope these help.
- chrisper 8y ago
  Did you ever end up installing the Helium10 extension?
  - eganist 8y ago
    I don't recall this being on my list. Remind me?
    - chrisper 8y ago
      It's the first response to your second link.
      - eganist 8y ago
        Ah, sadly I'm not a seller, so that's not something I've explored. You should follow up with the original commenter.
- jsight 8y ago
  I don't necessarily agree with the bits about 2-day shipping. TBH, I've had positive and negative experiences with that for years and don't really see a trend one way or the other. When it works well, it can be amazing (next day on a weekend!) and when it fails can seem really weird. But I'll still mostly agree with your list and add another. A lot of clothing items now only have a reasonable return policy when bought as part of a Prime Wardrobe. What if I just want a pair of shoes and am worried about them not fitting? Some offer free returns for this and others don't. Ugh.
- 8y ago
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
If so many people weren't sharing access to my my prime membership I would have cancelled it a year or two ago. Between Walmart and eBay it's rare for Amazon to be the best price for an item or to be the same price and available with two day shipping. For stuff that isn't time sensitive eBay is the clear winner because I can buy items at little markup as long as I'm willing to wait a month for them to ship from China/Taiwan/HK whereas you'll pay a large premium to buy the same junk and have it shipped from Amazon's warehouses.
- greetings 8y ago
  Not to mention that 2 day shipping is no longer a guarantee. I have had multiple items that have not shipped on time, or had long delays.
  - H1Supreme 8y ago
    The last three orders I placed from Amazon took over a week to ship. Every product was sold directly from Amazon, and shipped from their New Jersey warehouse to Ohio. It's my opinion that they are intentionally delaying orders that aren't Prime. I've never been someone who used Amazon for everything, so a Prime membership never made sense. I'd estimate 2-3 orders a year at most. Placing 3 orders in a short time frame was an anomaly. But, all three had abnormally long delays compared to nearly every other retailer.
    - sbtrct 8y ago
      That's also my experience. I'm in Ireland, ordering (mostly books) through amazon.co.uk (since 2000) so Prime never made sense for me either, but delivery times from the UK have definitely slipped over the past two years. In-stock items 'sold & fulfilled by Amazon' used to ship within 24 hours, but now regularly take 5 days or more to ship. The result is that I shop elsewhere.
  - geerlingguy 8y ago
    It seems to be about 50/50 nowadays if something that has the Prime stamp takes 2 days or 5 or more. It used to be a nice comfort knowing I could order some supply up to 2 days before it runs out, and I’d have it at my house when I need it. But now my confidence in the two day shipping is gone, and I often run to a local Walmart to get the same item for the same price, but guaranteed to be at my house that day. It seems when I get an item through USPS or UPS it’s on time, but a lot of the packages that go through Amazon’s own shipping service (often a large unmarked van that parks in weird spots!) end up delayed an extra day or two.
nabla9 8y ago
Perfect customer retention is not their goal. If selling 100 for $70 gives $7000 in revenue and selling 70 for $100 gives $7000 in revenue and the inverse relationship is linear, they should sell 85 for $85 and get $7225 in revenue. They have created solid economies of scale that others can't match. Together with the massive amount of customer data they are in a position where they can optimize their prices and respond and react in almost real time to get optimal customer retention. The long term goal is dynamic pricing for the perfect price discrimination (personal pricing). Detect when the customer is tired or stressed and show higher prices. Detect price conscious customers and show them lower prices. Maybe Alexa can trained detect the mood from the tone of voice and exploit that.
- ntsplnkv2 8y ago
  So essentially price gouging. What a great business model.
  - dymk 8y ago
    Optimizing revenue given a particular supply and demand isn't price gouging. People are paying for the convenience of buying anything they want with two clicks from their computer chair, turns out that's pretty valuable.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
      That isn't what the parent said: > Detect when the customer is tired or stressed and show higher prices. Detect price conscious customers and show them lower prices. Has nothing to do with supply and demand.
      - dymk 8y ago
        Behavioral economics would like to disagree. Supply and demand are a function of what buyers want; somebody wanting something _right now_ has been a force that markets cater to since markets have existed.
tfha 8y ago
This is why I've been unhappy to see Bezos gaining steam. As his other products become more successful, you can expect a lot more of this. Alexa is not your friend, Alexa is a tool to make Amazon money. Amazon's move into media is not an effort to improve the media system, it's a recognition that there's a lot of money to be made by controlling the media that people consume. Same thing with the fire phone, it wasn't an attempt to make a better phone, it's an attempt to gain access to all of that juicy information that Google gets from Android. Bezos is out to make an empire, everything else comes second.
- ckastner 8y ago
  > Bezos is out to make an empire, everything else comes second. I share this sentiment. For comparison, I believe the amount of and methods with which Google collects data to be wrong, but I also believe that they don't believe they are doing something (outright) wrong. Amazon, however, must know that they have a counterfeit goods problem, but it seems that they couldn't care less about it. Same applies to gaming the review system.
  - amelius 8y ago
    > but I also believe that they don't believe they are doing something (outright) wrong. With so many engineers working at Google, someone there should be thinking they are doing something wrong. Right? Or are you more thinking of a collective conscious of some kind?
    - ckastner 8y ago
      I mostly meant upper management, where strategic and policy decisions are made; where the direction a company is going is determined. Not that non-management is irrelevant. It's just less relevant. Because what is OK or not OK is ultimately decided at the very top. For example, in the not-so-recent-past, Uber was rocked with scandals on a weekly basis. The first step to fix this was to find a new CEO.
      - 8y ago
m3kw9 8y ago
They will not lose customers over this, I skip the ads and still buy what I want, at a good price, and reliable deliveries.
- m3kw9 8y ago
  Infact, knowing Bezos, they will lower prices further from the money gained by either reinvesting to improve process like delivery price, time and cheaper logicstis
  - m3kw9 8y ago
    Which means more customers $$.
fishbone 8y ago
I almost ordered two pvc plumbing fittings from Amazon last week for $13.99. Thanks to some Hackernews skepticism I cancelled my shopping cart. I found the same fittings at my local hardware store for $8.99. My question is, how dynamic are Amazon’s prices? Do all users see the same prices or is it more like google search where results are “personalized”? It seems like they could dynamically change prices based on user data pretty easily.
- greedy_buffer 8y ago
  If they were personalised it would be hard for sites like camelcamelcamel.com to exist, right? I would speculate that they don't personalise. Offering price discrimination as a service to third party sellers sounds like a minefield too.
  - fishbone 8y ago
    Now that I think about it, price manipulation is probably illegal in most countries.
  - gnopgnip 8y ago
    The price you see in the buy box is not always the lowest price. Anyone can click through and view all the sellers for an item. Sites like that track all the items for sale.
- slouch 8y ago
  > My question is, how dynamic are Amazon’s prices? Camelcamelcamel charts the price history of any item on Amazon https://camelcamelcamel.com/ https://camelcamelcamel.com/
- Kagerjay 8y ago
  Pretty sure users all see the same price, because otherwise reddit would be up in flames on things like r/mechkeyboarddeals, r/buildapc, r/ultralight, etc. Camelcamelcamel (price history checker) scrapes or pulls data from an external API, its going to be the same for all users
_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
In Germany it looks like Amazon removed a lot of camera gear from comparison sites [1] - and often is more expensive than other large retailers. I've been a Amazon user since they started in Germany and a Prime user since its beginning. Will not renew in November for many reasons - the primary being Amazon logistics which has the worst delivery service I ever experienced. They moved delivery of many items to 7-9pm to an office address because they target people with an other job as drivers. Lots of calls with Amazon support, they will not change delivery times or switch to DHL. [1] At least over the last months I didn't find Amazon listed e.g. on Idealo while the lens exists on Amazon.de
zaarn 8y ago
I'm not in the US but for similar reasons I'm discontinuing prime membership and I refuse to order from Amazon. Everything is available in independent online shops or ebay or aliexpress/banggood (which one I pick depends on how much wait time I'm willing to endure, the first is usually the fastest).
SteveCoast 8y ago
So you saved $4.40 to go to Walmart. * There's a non-zero chunk of the population not near a Walmart or similar. * It costs time to go there * It costs vehicle depreciation So if you were going to Walmart anyway, or walked there with nothing better to do you saved the money. But if you didn't then let's say the average wage is $25/hour or so and you spent 30 minutes there and back, and fully loaded vehicle depreciation is 50 cents/mile and it's 5 miles away then you spent $17.50 to go there. I totally realize we could argue all this back and forth but just pointing out that most of the time the "savings" aren't real if you value your time and transport. And yes, I realize most people don't value their time and treat their transport as a sunk cost even if it isn't entirely. edit: I was assuming going to walmart in person as opposed to online, because that's what most people appear to do but I'm happy to be wrong :-)
- shawabawa3 8y ago
  You can order online from walmart right? I assume that's what he meant
  - arbuge 8y ago
    Yes, it is.
- bgorman 8y ago
  Walmart actually has a pretty good online shopping experience. They even give free 2 day shipping on orders of 35 or more IIRC.
  - twothamendment 8y ago
    Twice I've gone to walmart.com to load up my cart and get free shipping. Both times I ended up leaving empty handed because I got to the checkout and one or more items didn't qualify for free shipping. I get that there will be exceptions, but they could sure work on telling me that before I get halfway through the checkout. In both cases I ended up back on amazon.
- Finbarr 8y ago
kmano8 8y ago
> they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases I've been loyal to Amazon, but am certainly willing to buy items elsewhere if the top to bottom price + experience is better. For example, camera equipment and many electronics, I've been finding prices better at B&H photo -- and you don't have to pay sales tax if shipping outside NY. Also, their customer service is at least as good as Amazon's. Sure, it's less convenient to purchase across more ecomm sites, but I'm fine with it if Amazon's value prop begins to diminish.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Well, you may not be charged the tax but you probable still have a legal obligation to pay it. That you choose not to to fill out all the forms is on you. Each state and country is different in how they treat online sales re local taxes.
  - kmano8 8y ago
    Sure. I'd be curious to see some data on who actually follows through on this. Pushing the burden to the consumer to document these transactions doesn't make any sense to me. Additionally, I bet many consumers don't even realize when taxes haven't been paid during checkout.
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      It isn't anything new. When you order something from another jurisdiction you aren't a simple consumer. You are an importer, subject to all the rule of any other importer. Amazon just implements what everyone was supposed to be doing already. Allow online sales to occur without sales tax and one day nobody will ever pay sales tax. Every transaction could be structured in terms of online order and local delivery. Starbucks could let you order coffee online, then pick it up at the counter. This is why states are moving on this issue now. Amazon is just the first to implement it on their side of the transaction.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
hvoiiita 8y ago
Ebay purchases should also have sales tax, it's just that the onus is on you to report it on your taxes rather than being taken automatically. I don't think it's very fair to add that as a negative to Amazon purchases. Other than that, I agree, many things have 10%-15% markup.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Most eBay sellers also provide free shipping, regardless of your order size, and it’s often faster than Amazon’s free shipping. If you’re looking for something relatively common, you can filter eBay results by distance to your home, and sometimes you can get your item next day for free shipping. eBay is surprisingly good as a buyer. Understood, however, that as a seller eBay is a pretty tough partner.
  - astura 8y ago
    >Most eBay sellers also provide free shipping, regardless of your order size Quite a while ago eBay switched to charging final value fees on shipping. Previous to that people would list items for $.01 plus $8 shipping, which was pretty obnoxious to weed through. With that change it ended up making sense for eBay sellers to just bundle the cost of shipping into the price, which ends up usually being a better experience for the customer, because they know what they are going to pay right away.
Waterluvian 8y ago
I noticed the price disparity this week as well. Suddenly Walmart is meaningfully less expensive. The math no longer makes sense for Amazon Prime in my case.
- DesiLurker 8y ago
  likewise, I am planning to cancel prim this year after the subscription runs out.
cs702 8y ago
> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Speaking as a longtime customer, I agree: this is what Amazon's behavior feels like to me nowadays. Search no longer works well for me. Reviews and product ratings are no longer trustworthy. The authenticity of products in key categories (e.g., electronics) can no longer be taken for granted. Yet Amazon seems to be... largely unaware of these issues. They seem to be prioritizing a wide range of important strategic imperatives over... customer happiness. I can't help but think of the famous quote from the Book of Proverbs, 16:18: "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."
- Gustomaximus 8y ago
  Does it though? 1) The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. 2) Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. 3) With the extra profit Amazon are making vs a competitors they can develop and buy technologies or business to keep a moat around them for a long time. I'm not saying they are irreplaceable. I do feel there is an inertia there that will be difficult to overcome combined with Amazons ability to change course given Bezos complete rule makes a fall vastly less likely than continued dominance over the short to medium term.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    > The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. > Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. I'd rather just walk into Target (same day pickup), Walmart (same day pickup), Best Buy (who price matches), B&H, Buy Buy Baby, Home Depot (same day pickup), Bed Bath & Beyond, or Kohls. I can't buy clothing online because I'm not willing for it to take a week to try something on, ship it back if it doesn't fit, get a different size in the mail, etc. The few bucks more at a physical store is worth it to have the size that fits today. I'm not willing to buy human consumables worried that they're counterfeit from an unscrupulous third party seller I will have no recourse against. I have to go to the Apple store for anything Apple related because I can't trust Amazon's reviews or their supply chain that what I'm receiving isn't a Chinese knock off that is out of spec. I buy SD cards and USB flash drives from Walmart because I don't trust I'll receive an authentic version from Amazon (having received many in the past that did not match advertised capacity). I won't even buy baby formula from Amazon; I buy direct from the manufacturer, and it takes 3-4 days to get to us (cheaper than worrying its counterfeit). The horror of having to wait an extra day or two and plan ahead! ashelmire's sibling comment hits the nail on the head: I do not trust Amazon anymore (without even touching on their labor practices). The UX is still great for me to track down products I might like or need and then go shop for them in person.
SteveCoast 8y ago
Trying to find real data that amazon prices are going up: Is it this product? https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litter/product/B0009X29WK?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litte... It looks like the price has been roughly the same for 4 years with jumps up and down. And before that, declined a lot. If we include inflation the price seems to be declining. Here's a graph for a chair mat: https://camelcamelcamel.com/AmazonBasics-Carpet-Chair-Mat-47in/product/B01HE0VXG8?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/AmazonBasics-Carpet-Chair-Mat-47... If anything, the graphs seem to show a lack of price discovery as it's not jumping around enough. Maybe camelcamelcamel doesn't sample at a high enough frequency.
cfqycwz 8y ago
I remember reading easily a decade ago, when people were describing Amazon as a charity propped up by investors, that this was Amazon's long-term strategy--aggressively reinvest all profits, burn through cash making a loss in order to achieve monopoly or near-monopoly status, and then jack up prices once they'd captured the market. It looks more and more like they're following through.
- confounded 8y ago
  If that wasn’t always implicatly the plan, they would have a very low valuation.
- djsumdog 8y ago
  People say the same thing about Uber today. I wonder if they'll be around as some massive mega-giant in 10 years, or turn into another eToys or MySpace.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    uber is easily replaced, amazon's logistics choking out your logistics are not
MentallyRetired 8y ago
Two weeks ago I ordered toilet paper. I got fake toilet paper. Not my normal angel soft. The fakes are a huge issue that they really need to deal with, but they can't do that without losing their "marketplace" status.
chickenfries 8y ago
My experience has been the same, unsubscribed after many years. On top of that, I feel good knowing I’m not supporting a company with terrible working conditions.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
philipov 8y ago
> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Sounds like an antitrust issue. Great example of how it doesn't take full monopoly-scale control for markets to break down.
- bradleybuda 8y ago
  Maybe Amazon is behaving badly, trying to scam customers by selling them fraud products at inflated prices. Is the best response to that to enlist the federal government to make them run their business differently? Or may we could just, you know, take our business elsewhere?
  - philipov 8y ago
    Taking your business elsewhere only works when individual customers represent a significant proportion of a company's income. With the volume Amazon handles, any individual attempt to send market signals is completely drowned out by noise and marketting. To send such a market signal strongly enough to be received, you would have to have an advertising campaign on the scale of another massive corporation. That indicates market failure. It is well known that markets are not resilient against tragedy of the commons, prisoner's dilemma, and similar phenomena. While I am no fan of the federal government, I am even less of a fan of a federal government that is dwarfed and captured by the power of giant corporate conglomerates, nor am I a fan of corporations large enough to act as governments in their own right. Therefore it is necessary for the size of the largest businesses to not exceed the power of the federal government, and it is necessary for there to be actionable antagonism between the interests of business and government. Markets can only be free if this balance of scale between public and private interests is maintained.
  - LinuxBender 8y ago
    Amazon is a giant tax revenue generator for state and federal governments. It would take something quite significant to get to that level, in my humble opinion.
kd5bjo 8y ago
Walmart has a history making suppliers cut costs to the point that quality has to drop. Often, suppliers will produce inferior goods for Walmart, and mark them the same as the high-quality goods they sell to other retailers. I've actually wondered how many of Amazon's "counterfeit" items are genuine Walmart-class products commingled with Macy's-class products in Amazon's warehouses.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  You think Macy’s is getting higher quality goods? Hah, that’s too funny.
  - 0xffff2 8y ago
    Higher class than Walmart... yes. That's the whole point of the comment.
- MrEfficiency 8y ago
  Any isle I go in has multiple different pricing of similar products. Offbrand, brand name, up-and-coming brand name, etc... Most have many different features and obvious differences in quality. In my decade of shopping at walmart, the only thing that sucked were the offbrand crackers and a 5$ battery powered light.
tmaly 8y ago
If you have a baby, the prices are even more pronounced. Even 5 years ago, diapers on Amazon were way too much. Costco shines in this segment.
gui67gk 8y ago
Walmart has peddled low price leader for a long time They have always had lower prices than Target and the rest Walmart being Walmart doesn’t really sell the idea Amazon is overpriced Walmart has done plenty of damage to small business with their position and is hardly worthy of props or preferential treatment But I guess if one can save $13-15 a year
samfisher83 8y ago
If you compare their quarter from this year to last year their COGS as % of revenue it is about the same. Its close to WMT, TGT, etc. Their retail business is like most other retail businesses.
nickjj 8y ago
The one place where Walmart has Amazon crushed is a physical presence which drastically affects shipping. Instead of having to buy Prime to get 2 day free shipping, I can just shop at Walmart and anything I buy gets delivered to a local Walmart 5 minutes away for free so I can pick it up. Most of the time it's 2-3 days (sometimes same day if they have it locally). This bypasses the $25-35 minimum price rule for free shipping on Amazon which almost always takes 7-10 days and a huge chunk of items aren't eligible for this. Before Amazon started screwing around with shipping times and prices I used to shop there a lot for common items but nowadays I use them as a last resort. Even if you don't have a local Walmart they also offer free shipping on totals above $35 and often times their non-free shipping is reasonable. For example $5 to have it shipped to your doorstep in 2 days instead of a local free pickup. Walmart can pull this off because they don't have a hidden agenda to push something like Prime on you. On Amazon that same item will likely be $7-8 in shipping and takes 4-7 days to get there without Prime.
- MrEfficiency 8y ago
  I find it weird to say- I'm excited to see what Walmart does in the next decade... but seriously, Amazon has gotten big enough to be 'bad' to customers and get away with it. The moment I saw an item was Prime only, I realized I needed to shop at the competitors.
- andyv 8y ago
  I bought a book on Amazon. I don't have Prime, so it took most of a week before the third party seller even shipped it. It never arrived, and the order status only said "left shipper facility". After staying in this limbo for several days past the arrival date, I was credited with a refund. I bought the book again, this time fulfilling through Amazon. They quoted an arrival date of a week in the future. When that day arrived, the package had not arrived and it turned out that the date was changed to the shipping date. I still had to wait the better part of the week for the book to actually arrive. I did a search and found that I could have bought the book directly from the author (self-published), and would have arrived in three or four days. While waiting for the book to arrive the second time, I decided I had another book I wanted to read. I had it loaded up on Amazon... then checked B&N, who had the book in stock. I cancelled the Amazon order, and drove 10 minutes to buy the second book. So much for the convenience of Amazon...
cpluspluss 8y ago
i agree, i don't shop at Amazon anymore. I constantly get free shipping on ebay items. Some with fast shipping too. Not to mention the price is cheaper most of the times. I was also questioning why Amazon suddenly had such high prices for the same item!
awaywopassd 8y ago
> My Prime membership expires in a couple months time, and this time I'm not renewing it, after being a member for several years. Same here. After almost a decade, I will not renew my Prime membership. It is just scary thinking about it especially losing other benefits like Prime Music and Unlimited Photos backup but Amazon shopping experience keep getting worse. I am pretty sure I have received a few fake name brand items but pretty hard to tell. In past, if I ever had any complaint, Amazon reps would not only fix the issue but send $10-50 gift cards. Lately, they only fix the issue/replace the item. Maybe, they spoiled me but to me that is sign of declining customer service. I used to be active Amazon advocate, introduced many of my friends to Amazon. But now I am pretty much on the other side.
- jhall1468 8y ago
  > Lately, they only fix the issue/replace the item. Maybe, they spoiled me but to me that is sign of declining customer service. That's a sign of "good" customer service vs over-the-top. They still send gift cards/free prime memberships from time-to-time, but frequent callers probably don't get those deals any more.
pbreit 8y ago
The Recode analysis was decent but problematic in that its test searches are pretty contrived. Does anyone really search for "shoes" or "cereal". There was only 1 reasonable search attempted "justins peanut butter" and the results were indeed mediocre. But I would have liked to have seen better testing.
- joegahona 8y ago
  I thought they were lame searches too, so I went to Amazon and searched "Bose headphones." Nothing above the fold was Bose headphones -- the second pair of headphones don't even have a brand listed. Thinking that wasn't specific enough, I tried "Bose noise-canceling headphones," and the same thing happened.
gascan 8y ago
You could have guessed that a chair mat (big) and cat litter (heavy) might not be products Amazon would be competitive with. I find they are mostly good for mid-price items that are not too heavy or bulky, especially moderately "niche" items that are not carried many places and benefit from the super saver shipping. (Super niche items are no-go of course)
vlunkr 8y ago
It's sad that Amazon was perfect IMO years ago, and I assume was very profitable even then. But continuous changes, mostly after the introduction of Prime, have just drug the core product down. I still use Amazon for some items just because the selection is still the most outrageously huge, but I'll also go to Walmart, Monoprice, Newegg, etc. and the prices have generally been better there.
Shivetya 8y ago
not only can you see the price increases cross shopping but simply going back through your past orders. I have a few items I purchase regularly; some food items and bird food too; and the pricing changes seem at times random but they only consistently move up. it has gotten so bad I do not automatically click the order again button. with regards to prime, you don't have to wait to cancel
schaefer 8y ago
> My Prime membership expires in a couple months time, and this time I'm not renewing it, after being a member for several years. Like many other in this thread - I have already canceled my prime membership for the first time since 2004.
dominotw 8y ago
> . the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Isn't extra $4 for shipping? You are comparing store pickup to something shipped to your home.
- arbuge 8y ago
  No. I was comparing to Walmart.com.
DoubleCribble 8y ago
You're not taking into consideration the fact that Amazon prices fluctuate rapidly, sometimes daily (hourly?). You can still find good deals on Amazon, you just need to get lucky and/or be patient with their pricing algorithm. Using a third party website like camelcamelcamel.com can help you see if you are really getting the "best price" that Amazon offers.
tehwebguy 8y ago
Not sure if your observation is one but many examples I hear about Amazon pricing seem to miss the fact that a growing percentage (recently at like 53%) are sold and priced by third party sellers.
qubax 8y ago
> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. That's the assumption of google/youtube, facebook, microsoft, etc. Once you reach a dominant position, you don't have to care as much. You even see this with netflix. > A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 (both including free shipping but Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax). Bingo. Amazon used to be where the best prices were. Now so much of their products are more expensive than what you'd find in your local supermarket. And they are significantly more expensive.
prostoalex 8y ago
> Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax You are supposed to sum up those purchases and pay the state the 8.25% of use tax. Nobody exactly is doing that, and the cost of enforcement is high, but that’s what the state wants https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sutprograms.htm https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sutprograms.htm
wuliwong 8y ago
I never really thought that Amazon was the cheapest. The draw for me was always the free shipping and convenience. I actually don't remember Amazon ever marketing their service as having the cheapest price but I could be mistaken?
ljm 8y ago
I have to admit, it confounds me that fraud can exist on such a large scale in a platform, without really doing anything to damage trust in the platform itself. The internet does a fantastic job of taking what would otherwise be a localised cesspool, and making the entire thing efficient on a global level. And I'm sure this suits Amazon very well because I don't use Amazon for discovery. I do my research elsewhere and then buy through Amazon (prime only, of course) because I'm too impatient to wait a week for a delivery!
ZainRiz 8y ago
One bit of clarification: Amazon doesn't set the prices for most of the goods, the individual vendors do. But yes, those vendors are probably taking advantage of the effects you're talking about.
amazone2 8y ago
> the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 At least they're simply charging more. I found this battery charger [0] that costs more the more you buy! You can get 1 for ~$33.00, or you can get 3 for the price of 4 (~$133.00). I selected the single unit and set the amount to 3 and got them for ~100.00 rather than buying the 3-pack for $133.00. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC700-CBP-Battery-Charger/dp/B000RSOV50/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1536695611&sr=8-2&keywords=bc-700+battery+charger https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC700-CBP-Battery-C...
- austhrow743 8y ago
  That reminded me of a purchase I made a couple weeks ago. Washing powder where the 2kg is cheaper than the 1kg. That was a headscratcher. As far as I can tell they're both sold by the manufacturer. https://www.amazon.com.au/Cold-Power-Regular-Laundry-Brilliant/dp/B077JJSCDW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1 https://www.amazon.com.au/Cold-Power-Regular-Laundry-Brillia...
kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
Amazon has to bake the cost of shipping and handling into their price structure. It isn't free for them and they can't take a loss on their core business operations forever. A mass market merchant who bulk ships to their stores has certain advantages over that model. One who stongarms their suppliers to sell them product with minimal to negative margin can beat Amazon. Walmart can only stock so many SKUs. You can't walk into a brick and mortar store and select from 1M+ products including niche items that aren't profitable to sell at retail.
tomcam 8y ago
This speaks to a bigger issue, which is that retail is hard. Now that Amazon can let down its hair and start charging prices that may actually be sustainable, we are learning that the local retailers it's driving out of business were actually fairly efficient. They didn't have the luxury of charging below-retail for 20 years, so they didn't look as attractive as Amazon did during that same period.
halr9000 8y ago
> the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 (both including free shipping but Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax). > They can do that because so many people don't price compare anymore before going to Amazon. "Alexa, reorder cat litter" So, no, I disagree with your premise here. They can demand a higher price by way of providing a better overall service, end to end, by way of innovation and hard work. Sure, some of it is in fact laziness like you say, when viewed one way. Viewed another, I am willingly paying for that convenience. Not to be tautological, but in a free market, this works as long as it works. Cheaper alternatives exist, no surprise there. But you need to take into account value, which is more than just price. "Alexa, set 11 minute pasta timer."
com2kid 8y ago
> They can do that because so many people don't price compare anymore before going to Amazon. There is also the fact that Amazon already has my info, it is worth a buck or two to not have to type all that in on my phone, or at least go through someone else's checkout process. With Amazon, I can think of something I need, pull out my phone, and with their app have it ordered in minutes. If I shop around and it takes me ~10 minutes (or more if it is a product category I am not familiar with), and then I give my info to another company that may lose it.
- bamboozled 8y ago
  Also achieved with PayPal
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    From those that accept it, which isn't everyone.
phaedrus 8y ago
The issue with fakes (or deceivingly advertised) items on Amazon is something that seems to have gotten worse in the past year, and is a big reason I'm not renewing my Prime either. In one case I ordered a name-brand transmission rebuild kit but received a knock-off with a similar name. Unfortunately I didn't notice the difference before I dropped off the kit with the friend who was rebuilding the trans for me. He kept complaining about parts not in the kit, and I kept being mystified because I (thought I) bought the top of the line kit, there was no more-comprehensive one to buy? It wasn't until the next time I could get out to his house that I realized we'd been scammed; by then he'd already used part of the kit so I just bought another kit to get the missing parts. The second occurrence was I ordered a normally $30 set of 4 spark plugs for $20, and what I received was 1 spark plug - obviously the scam is break up the $30 pack and sell for 4x$20. I got a refund on this one and got to keep the plug, but it delayed an important engine repair and also left me with a dilemma as to how important it was that they match - I ended up using the one expensive plug and three mid-range plugs (because I would have just chosen 4 cheaper plugs in the first place if I'd known).
- linuxftw 8y ago
  Don't buy car parts from Amazon, they are almost always overpriced compared to competitors, let alone the risk of fakes (That you claim, I personally don't know of any counterfeit products I have purchased). Rockauto or Advance is the way to go in the US.
  - phaedrus 8y ago
    Funny you should mention, as Rockauto came to the rescue for the transmission kit, and Advance for the spark plugs. Now I only go to Amazon if the car part isn't on Rockauto, but it begs the question - if this part is so obscure it's not on the specialty site, can I really trust this Amazon listing is actually the part I need, and that I will not instead receive, say, a used birdhouse?
    - linuxftw 8y ago
      I got my tranmission rebuild kit from RockAuto as well ;) The auto parts world is a tricky beast. If it's not sold by a major retailer, there's often the manufacturer or specialty sites for various classes of autos, especially classic cars and 4x4s. Ebay is another great place for used parts as well.
pavanlimo 8y ago
I used to land on Amazon as a defacto shopping place, until about a year ago. Now Aliexpress is the defacto for me.
KerrickStaley 8y ago
I agree with this. Walmart in particular seems to consistently offer lower prices and fewer fakes. Walmart has free 2-day shipping for orders over $35, which is almost as good as having Prime; I just have to batch up household items that I want to order instead of ordering them one at a time.
trumped 8y ago
The shipping origin of the products also dictates the costs... were any of those cheaper items shipped from China?
bogomipz 8y ago
>"Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases." This has been my observation as well, at least for a basket of household sundries and office supplies I was previously sourcing from Amazon. They were often more than a few dollars cheaper at a local store. I realized I had fallen into the too complacent to price shop trap for a while. I agree with your other points and for me deliveries issue started to become a regular occurrence. I think the bloom is off the rose with Amazon.
yuhong 8y ago
Amazon shows some of the problems of the current debt-based economy. Most Amazon orders are with credit card debt, and of course most of it is imported from China and will be affected by many of the Trump tariffs.
daveheq 8y ago
When people wake up, Amazon's gonna crash.
danmaz74 8y ago
As a very long time and satisfied-but-worried Amazon customer, I think that prices going up was something to be expected and not a surprise at all. Instead, the way they're dropping the ball with customer satisfaction is really surprising: I recently moved to London and started buying even more stuff online - most of it from Amazon, even if I often try to find alternatives just because I don't want them to become a monopoly. But the amount of broken or 'wrong' stuff I'm getting is really surprising. From one point of view this is very concerning to me as a customer. From another point of view, it's motivating me to find alternatives much more than just the idealistic worry was doing, so, there's at least a good point here.

by arbuge 8y ago

hef19898 8y ago

Same impression here. Could turn out to be a worrying trend for Amazon in the Long run. And with the growing fix costs coming with an ever increasing logistics food print and brick and mortar stores, Amazon might end up in tight spot, still an e-commerce leader but not dominating any more.

mtgx 8y ago

Amazon hasn't had the cheapest prices for a few good years now. They're taking advantage of the fact that they have what I like to call "brand inertia". The problem is brand inertia is not infinite. If you no longer do the things that have given you that inertia to begin with, eventually you'll run out of it. When a worthy competitor appears, your customers, who by then will have little loyalty to you, will switch.

hef19898 8y ago
One could almost come to the conclusion that Amazon running a global experiment on price elasticity on their complete customer base.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  At any retailer that isn't running that experiment constantly, at least half of the executive team should be fired.
  - hef19898 8y ago
    True that. For normal retailers there is still the competition part which kind of tends to pull prices down. And Amazon has the legendary fly wheel which has lower prices in it. So it kind of seems that Amazon is moving away from the original strategy and becoming an "normal" retailer. Not that investors don't like that, obviously.
icantdrive55 8y ago
I don't think it matters to those that can afford the service? Amazon captured peoples trust, and those with funds buy their counterfeit, overpriced goods. Along with that Prime scam. (I have kept track of their portable AM radios for ten years. Every year the price slowely ticket up.). I fell for the Prime scam, until I realized I payed $130 in shipping for two items----along with the movies I never watched. (Amazon prime now sends you a reminder when your membership is due. Two months ago, the customer had the ability to cancel the upcoming month in advance. I don't know if they think we don't notice, or don't care?) Anyhoo, I don't see any competition. Sad? All that VC money being poured into apps that will fail, and no one takes on the beast? Alibaba is not competition for those of us in the states.
abnry 8y ago
So clearly there will be some delay in between when brand inertia is still going and competitors haven't caught up, but it does look like Walmart is stepping up its online retail business, so I have hope that Amazon won't maintain near monopoly status.
- lovich 8y ago
  My local Target has started providing a service where anything you buy in the store can be rung up at the register and then delivered to your home as well. Really gets rid of the friction of buying anything when you live in a city and don't drive to any stores

eganist 8y ago

Apologies in advance for the self-referential commentary: I've put down a long list of reasons for why I've cancelled prime after almost ten years of consistent use. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16937290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16937290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17568320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17568320 If you-the-reader need good reasons to quit prime, I hope these help.

chrisper 8y ago
Did you ever end up installing the Helium10 extension?
- eganist 8y ago
  I don't recall this being on my list. Remind me?
  - chrisper 8y ago
    It's the first response to your second link.
    - eganist 8y ago
      Ah, sadly I'm not a seller, so that's not something I've explored. You should follow up with the original commenter.
jsight 8y ago
I don't necessarily agree with the bits about 2-day shipping. TBH, I've had positive and negative experiences with that for years and don't really see a trend one way or the other. When it works well, it can be amazing (next day on a weekend!) and when it fails can seem really weird. But I'll still mostly agree with your list and add another. A lot of clothing items now only have a reasonable return policy when bought as part of a Prime Wardrobe. What if I just want a pair of shoes and am worried about them not fitting? Some offer free returns for this and others don't. Ugh.
8y ago

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

If so many people weren't sharing access to my my prime membership I would have cancelled it a year or two ago. Between Walmart and eBay it's rare for Amazon to be the best price for an item or to be the same price and available with two day shipping. For stuff that isn't time sensitive eBay is the clear winner because I can buy items at little markup as long as I'm willing to wait a month for them to ship from China/Taiwan/HK whereas you'll pay a large premium to buy the same junk and have it shipped from Amazon's warehouses.

greetings 8y ago
Not to mention that 2 day shipping is no longer a guarantee. I have had multiple items that have not shipped on time, or had long delays.
- H1Supreme 8y ago
  The last three orders I placed from Amazon took over a week to ship. Every product was sold directly from Amazon, and shipped from their New Jersey warehouse to Ohio. It's my opinion that they are intentionally delaying orders that aren't Prime. I've never been someone who used Amazon for everything, so a Prime membership never made sense. I'd estimate 2-3 orders a year at most. Placing 3 orders in a short time frame was an anomaly. But, all three had abnormally long delays compared to nearly every other retailer.
  - sbtrct 8y ago
    That's also my experience. I'm in Ireland, ordering (mostly books) through amazon.co.uk (since 2000) so Prime never made sense for me either, but delivery times from the UK have definitely slipped over the past two years. In-stock items 'sold & fulfilled by Amazon' used to ship within 24 hours, but now regularly take 5 days or more to ship. The result is that I shop elsewhere.
- geerlingguy 8y ago
  It seems to be about 50/50 nowadays if something that has the Prime stamp takes 2 days or 5 or more. It used to be a nice comfort knowing I could order some supply up to 2 days before it runs out, and I’d have it at my house when I need it. But now my confidence in the two day shipping is gone, and I often run to a local Walmart to get the same item for the same price, but guaranteed to be at my house that day. It seems when I get an item through USPS or UPS it’s on time, but a lot of the packages that go through Amazon’s own shipping service (often a large unmarked van that parks in weird spots!) end up delayed an extra day or two.

nabla9 8y ago

Perfect customer retention is not their goal. If selling 100 for $70 gives $7000 in revenue and selling 70 for $100 gives $7000 in revenue and the inverse relationship is linear, they should sell 85 for $85 and get $7225 in revenue. They have created solid economies of scale that others can't match. Together with the massive amount of customer data they are in a position where they can optimize their prices and respond and react in almost real time to get optimal customer retention. The long term goal is dynamic pricing for the perfect price discrimination (personal pricing). Detect when the customer is tired or stressed and show higher prices. Detect price conscious customers and show them lower prices. Maybe Alexa can trained detect the mood from the tone of voice and exploit that.

ntsplnkv2 8y ago
So essentially price gouging. What a great business model.
- dymk 8y ago
  Optimizing revenue given a particular supply and demand isn't price gouging. People are paying for the convenience of buying anything they want with two clicks from their computer chair, turns out that's pretty valuable.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    That isn't what the parent said: > Detect when the customer is tired or stressed and show higher prices. Detect price conscious customers and show them lower prices. Has nothing to do with supply and demand.
    - dymk 8y ago
      Behavioral economics would like to disagree. Supply and demand are a function of what buyers want; somebody wanting something _right now_ has been a force that markets cater to since markets have existed.

tfha 8y ago

This is why I've been unhappy to see Bezos gaining steam. As his other products become more successful, you can expect a lot more of this. Alexa is not your friend, Alexa is a tool to make Amazon money. Amazon's move into media is not an effort to improve the media system, it's a recognition that there's a lot of money to be made by controlling the media that people consume. Same thing with the fire phone, it wasn't an attempt to make a better phone, it's an attempt to gain access to all of that juicy information that Google gets from Android. Bezos is out to make an empire, everything else comes second.

ckastner 8y ago
> Bezos is out to make an empire, everything else comes second. I share this sentiment. For comparison, I believe the amount of and methods with which Google collects data to be wrong, but I also believe that they don't believe they are doing something (outright) wrong. Amazon, however, must know that they have a counterfeit goods problem, but it seems that they couldn't care less about it. Same applies to gaming the review system.
- amelius 8y ago
  > but I also believe that they don't believe they are doing something (outright) wrong. With so many engineers working at Google, someone there should be thinking they are doing something wrong. Right? Or are you more thinking of a collective conscious of some kind?
  - ckastner 8y ago
    I mostly meant upper management, where strategic and policy decisions are made; where the direction a company is going is determined. Not that non-management is irrelevant. It's just less relevant. Because what is OK or not OK is ultimately decided at the very top. For example, in the not-so-recent-past, Uber was rocked with scandals on a weekly basis. The first step to fix this was to find a new CEO.
    - 8y ago

m3kw9 8y ago

They will not lose customers over this, I skip the ads and still buy what I want, at a good price, and reliable deliveries.

m3kw9 8y ago
Infact, knowing Bezos, they will lower prices further from the money gained by either reinvesting to improve process like delivery price, time and cheaper logicstis
- m3kw9 8y ago
  Which means more customers $$.

fishbone 8y ago

I almost ordered two pvc plumbing fittings from Amazon last week for $13.99. Thanks to some Hackernews skepticism I cancelled my shopping cart. I found the same fittings at my local hardware store for $8.99. My question is, how dynamic are Amazon’s prices? Do all users see the same prices or is it more like google search where results are “personalized”? It seems like they could dynamically change prices based on user data pretty easily.

greedy_buffer 8y ago
If they were personalised it would be hard for sites like camelcamelcamel.com to exist, right? I would speculate that they don't personalise. Offering price discrimination as a service to third party sellers sounds like a minefield too.
- fishbone 8y ago
  Now that I think about it, price manipulation is probably illegal in most countries.
- gnopgnip 8y ago
  The price you see in the buy box is not always the lowest price. Anyone can click through and view all the sellers for an item. Sites like that track all the items for sale.
slouch 8y ago
> My question is, how dynamic are Amazon’s prices? Camelcamelcamel charts the price history of any item on Amazon https://camelcamelcamel.com/ https://camelcamelcamel.com/
Kagerjay 8y ago
Pretty sure users all see the same price, because otherwise reddit would be up in flames on things like r/mechkeyboarddeals, r/buildapc, r/ultralight, etc. Camelcamelcamel (price history checker) scrapes or pulls data from an external API, its going to be the same for all users

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago

In Germany it looks like Amazon removed a lot of camera gear from comparison sites [1] - and often is more expensive than other large retailers. I've been a Amazon user since they started in Germany and a Prime user since its beginning. Will not renew in November for many reasons - the primary being Amazon logistics which has the worst delivery service I ever experienced. They moved delivery of many items to 7-9pm to an office address because they target people with an other job as drivers. Lots of calls with Amazon support, they will not change delivery times or switch to DHL. [1] At least over the last months I didn't find Amazon listed e.g. on Idealo while the lens exists on Amazon.de

zaarn 8y ago

I'm not in the US but for similar reasons I'm discontinuing prime membership and I refuse to order from Amazon. Everything is available in independent online shops or ebay or aliexpress/banggood (which one I pick depends on how much wait time I'm willing to endure, the first is usually the fastest).

SteveCoast 8y ago

So you saved $4.40 to go to Walmart. * There's a non-zero chunk of the population not near a Walmart or similar. * It costs time to go there * It costs vehicle depreciation So if you were going to Walmart anyway, or walked there with nothing better to do you saved the money. But if you didn't then let's say the average wage is $25/hour or so and you spent 30 minutes there and back, and fully loaded vehicle depreciation is 50 cents/mile and it's 5 miles away then you spent $17.50 to go there. I totally realize we could argue all this back and forth but just pointing out that most of the time the "savings" aren't real if you value your time and transport. And yes, I realize most people don't value their time and treat their transport as a sunk cost even if it isn't entirely. edit: I was assuming going to walmart in person as opposed to online, because that's what most people appear to do but I'm happy to be wrong :-)

shawabawa3 8y ago
You can order online from walmart right? I assume that's what he meant
- arbuge 8y ago
  Yes, it is.
bgorman 8y ago
Walmart actually has a pretty good online shopping experience. They even give free 2 day shipping on orders of 35 or more IIRC.
- twothamendment 8y ago
  Twice I've gone to walmart.com to load up my cart and get free shipping. Both times I ended up leaving empty handed because I got to the checkout and one or more items didn't qualify for free shipping. I get that there will be exceptions, but they could sure work on telling me that before I get halfway through the checkout. In both cases I ended up back on amazon.
Finbarr 8y ago

kmano8 8y ago

> they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases I've been loyal to Amazon, but am certainly willing to buy items elsewhere if the top to bottom price + experience is better. For example, camera equipment and many electronics, I've been finding prices better at B&H photo -- and you don't have to pay sales tax if shipping outside NY. Also, their customer service is at least as good as Amazon's. Sure, it's less convenient to purchase across more ecomm sites, but I'm fine with it if Amazon's value prop begins to diminish.

sandworm101 8y ago
Well, you may not be charged the tax but you probable still have a legal obligation to pay it. That you choose not to to fill out all the forms is on you. Each state and country is different in how they treat online sales re local taxes.
- kmano8 8y ago
  Sure. I'd be curious to see some data on who actually follows through on this. Pushing the burden to the consumer to document these transactions doesn't make any sense to me. Additionally, I bet many consumers don't even realize when taxes haven't been paid during checkout.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    It isn't anything new. When you order something from another jurisdiction you aren't a simple consumer. You are an importer, subject to all the rule of any other importer. Amazon just implements what everyone was supposed to be doing already. Allow online sales to occur without sales tax and one day nobody will ever pay sales tax. Every transaction could be structured in terms of online order and local delivery. Starbucks could let you order coffee online, then pick it up at the counter. This is why states are moving on this issue now. Amazon is just the first to implement it on their side of the transaction.
- logfromblammo 8y ago

hvoiiita 8y ago

Ebay purchases should also have sales tax, it's just that the onus is on you to report it on your taxes rather than being taken automatically. I don't think it's very fair to add that as a negative to Amazon purchases. Other than that, I agree, many things have 10%-15% markup.

ryandrake 8y ago
Most eBay sellers also provide free shipping, regardless of your order size, and it’s often faster than Amazon’s free shipping. If you’re looking for something relatively common, you can filter eBay results by distance to your home, and sometimes you can get your item next day for free shipping. eBay is surprisingly good as a buyer. Understood, however, that as a seller eBay is a pretty tough partner.
- astura 8y ago
  >Most eBay sellers also provide free shipping, regardless of your order size Quite a while ago eBay switched to charging final value fees on shipping. Previous to that people would list items for $.01 plus $8 shipping, which was pretty obnoxious to weed through. With that change it ended up making sense for eBay sellers to just bundle the cost of shipping into the price, which ends up usually being a better experience for the customer, because they know what they are going to pay right away.

Waterluvian 8y ago

I noticed the price disparity this week as well. Suddenly Walmart is meaningfully less expensive. The math no longer makes sense for Amazon Prime in my case.

DesiLurker 8y ago
likewise, I am planning to cancel prim this year after the subscription runs out.

cs702 8y ago

> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Speaking as a longtime customer, I agree: this is what Amazon's behavior feels like to me nowadays. Search no longer works well for me. Reviews and product ratings are no longer trustworthy. The authenticity of products in key categories (e.g., electronics) can no longer be taken for granted. Yet Amazon seems to be... largely unaware of these issues. They seem to be prioritizing a wide range of important strategic imperatives over... customer happiness. I can't help but think of the famous quote from the Book of Proverbs, 16:18: "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."

Gustomaximus 8y ago
Does it though? 1) The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. 2) Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. 3) With the extra profit Amazon are making vs a competitors they can develop and buy technologies or business to keep a moat around them for a long time. I'm not saying they are irreplaceable. I do feel there is an inertia there that will be difficult to overcome combined with Amazons ability to change course given Bezos complete rule makes a fall vastly less likely than continued dominance over the short to medium term.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  > The day Amazon feel threatened they can become the cheapest in the market quickly again. > Given purchasing power scale and people like fast delivery there will only be a handful of companies that can complete with Amazon ever, so it seems unlikely there will be a 'started in the garage' business compete with them now the market is maturing. I'd rather just walk into Target (same day pickup), Walmart (same day pickup), Best Buy (who price matches), B&H, Buy Buy Baby, Home Depot (same day pickup), Bed Bath & Beyond, or Kohls. I can't buy clothing online because I'm not willing for it to take a week to try something on, ship it back if it doesn't fit, get a different size in the mail, etc. The few bucks more at a physical store is worth it to have the size that fits today. I'm not willing to buy human consumables worried that they're counterfeit from an unscrupulous third party seller I will have no recourse against. I have to go to the Apple store for anything Apple related because I can't trust Amazon's reviews or their supply chain that what I'm receiving isn't a Chinese knock off that is out of spec. I buy SD cards and USB flash drives from Walmart because I don't trust I'll receive an authentic version from Amazon (having received many in the past that did not match advertised capacity). I won't even buy baby formula from Amazon; I buy direct from the manufacturer, and it takes 3-4 days to get to us (cheaper than worrying its counterfeit). The horror of having to wait an extra day or two and plan ahead! ashelmire's sibling comment hits the nail on the head: I do not trust Amazon anymore (without even touching on their labor practices). The UX is still great for me to track down products I might like or need and then go shop for them in person.

SteveCoast 8y ago

Trying to find real data that amazon prices are going up: Is it this product? https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litter/product/B0009X29WK?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/Dr-Elseys-Premium-Clumping-Litte... It looks like the price has been roughly the same for 4 years with jumps up and down. And before that, declined a lot. If we include inflation the price seems to be declining. Here's a graph for a chair mat: https://camelcamelcamel.com/AmazonBasics-Carpet-Chair-Mat-47in/product/B01HE0VXG8?context=search https://camelcamelcamel.com/AmazonBasics-Carpet-Chair-Mat-47... If anything, the graphs seem to show a lack of price discovery as it's not jumping around enough. Maybe camelcamelcamel doesn't sample at a high enough frequency.

cfqycwz 8y ago

I remember reading easily a decade ago, when people were describing Amazon as a charity propped up by investors, that this was Amazon's long-term strategy--aggressively reinvest all profits, burn through cash making a loss in order to achieve monopoly or near-monopoly status, and then jack up prices once they'd captured the market. It looks more and more like they're following through.

confounded 8y ago
If that wasn’t always implicatly the plan, they would have a very low valuation.
djsumdog 8y ago
People say the same thing about Uber today. I wonder if they'll be around as some massive mega-giant in 10 years, or turn into another eToys or MySpace.
- kkarakk 8y ago
  uber is easily replaced, amazon's logistics choking out your logistics are not

MentallyRetired 8y ago

Two weeks ago I ordered toilet paper. I got fake toilet paper. Not my normal angel soft. The fakes are a huge issue that they really need to deal with, but they can't do that without losing their "marketplace" status.

chickenfries 8y ago

My experience has been the same, unsubscribed after many years. On top of that, I feel good knowing I’m not supporting a company with terrible working conditions.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

philipov 8y ago

> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. Sounds like an antitrust issue. Great example of how it doesn't take full monopoly-scale control for markets to break down.

bradleybuda 8y ago
Maybe Amazon is behaving badly, trying to scam customers by selling them fraud products at inflated prices. Is the best response to that to enlist the federal government to make them run their business differently? Or may we could just, you know, take our business elsewhere?
- philipov 8y ago
  Taking your business elsewhere only works when individual customers represent a significant proportion of a company's income. With the volume Amazon handles, any individual attempt to send market signals is completely drowned out by noise and marketting. To send such a market signal strongly enough to be received, you would have to have an advertising campaign on the scale of another massive corporation. That indicates market failure. It is well known that markets are not resilient against tragedy of the commons, prisoner's dilemma, and similar phenomena. While I am no fan of the federal government, I am even less of a fan of a federal government that is dwarfed and captured by the power of giant corporate conglomerates, nor am I a fan of corporations large enough to act as governments in their own right. Therefore it is necessary for the size of the largest businesses to not exceed the power of the federal government, and it is necessary for there to be actionable antagonism between the interests of business and government. Markets can only be free if this balance of scale between public and private interests is maintained.
- LinuxBender 8y ago
  Amazon is a giant tax revenue generator for state and federal governments. It would take something quite significant to get to that level, in my humble opinion.

kd5bjo 8y ago

Walmart has a history making suppliers cut costs to the point that quality has to drop. Often, suppliers will produce inferior goods for Walmart, and mark them the same as the high-quality goods they sell to other retailers. I've actually wondered how many of Amazon's "counterfeit" items are genuine Walmart-class products commingled with Macy's-class products in Amazon's warehouses.

dawnerd 8y ago
You think Macy’s is getting higher quality goods? Hah, that’s too funny.
- 0xffff2 8y ago
  Higher class than Walmart... yes. That's the whole point of the comment.
MrEfficiency 8y ago
Any isle I go in has multiple different pricing of similar products. Offbrand, brand name, up-and-coming brand name, etc... Most have many different features and obvious differences in quality. In my decade of shopping at walmart, the only thing that sucked were the offbrand crackers and a 5$ battery powered light.

tmaly 8y ago

If you have a baby, the prices are even more pronounced. Even 5 years ago, diapers on Amazon were way too much. Costco shines in this segment.

gui67gk 8y ago

Walmart has peddled low price leader for a long time They have always had lower prices than Target and the rest Walmart being Walmart doesn’t really sell the idea Amazon is overpriced Walmart has done plenty of damage to small business with their position and is hardly worthy of props or preferential treatment But I guess if one can save $13-15 a year

samfisher83 8y ago

If you compare their quarter from this year to last year their COGS as % of revenue it is about the same. Its close to WMT, TGT, etc. Their retail business is like most other retail businesses.

nickjj 8y ago

The one place where Walmart has Amazon crushed is a physical presence which drastically affects shipping. Instead of having to buy Prime to get 2 day free shipping, I can just shop at Walmart and anything I buy gets delivered to a local Walmart 5 minutes away for free so I can pick it up. Most of the time it's 2-3 days (sometimes same day if they have it locally). This bypasses the $25-35 minimum price rule for free shipping on Amazon which almost always takes 7-10 days and a huge chunk of items aren't eligible for this. Before Amazon started screwing around with shipping times and prices I used to shop there a lot for common items but nowadays I use them as a last resort. Even if you don't have a local Walmart they also offer free shipping on totals above $35 and often times their non-free shipping is reasonable. For example $5 to have it shipped to your doorstep in 2 days instead of a local free pickup. Walmart can pull this off because they don't have a hidden agenda to push something like Prime on you. On Amazon that same item will likely be $7-8 in shipping and takes 4-7 days to get there without Prime.

MrEfficiency 8y ago
I find it weird to say- I'm excited to see what Walmart does in the next decade... but seriously, Amazon has gotten big enough to be 'bad' to customers and get away with it. The moment I saw an item was Prime only, I realized I needed to shop at the competitors.
andyv 8y ago
I bought a book on Amazon. I don't have Prime, so it took most of a week before the third party seller even shipped it. It never arrived, and the order status only said "left shipper facility". After staying in this limbo for several days past the arrival date, I was credited with a refund. I bought the book again, this time fulfilling through Amazon. They quoted an arrival date of a week in the future. When that day arrived, the package had not arrived and it turned out that the date was changed to the shipping date. I still had to wait the better part of the week for the book to actually arrive. I did a search and found that I could have bought the book directly from the author (self-published), and would have arrived in three or four days. While waiting for the book to arrive the second time, I decided I had another book I wanted to read. I had it loaded up on Amazon... then checked B&N, who had the book in stock. I cancelled the Amazon order, and drove 10 minutes to buy the second book. So much for the convenience of Amazon...

cpluspluss 8y ago

i agree, i don't shop at Amazon anymore. I constantly get free shipping on ebay items. Some with fast shipping too. Not to mention the price is cheaper most of the times. I was also questioning why Amazon suddenly had such high prices for the same item!

awaywopassd 8y ago

> My Prime membership expires in a couple months time, and this time I'm not renewing it, after being a member for several years. Same here. After almost a decade, I will not renew my Prime membership. It is just scary thinking about it especially losing other benefits like Prime Music and Unlimited Photos backup but Amazon shopping experience keep getting worse. I am pretty sure I have received a few fake name brand items but pretty hard to tell. In past, if I ever had any complaint, Amazon reps would not only fix the issue but send $10-50 gift cards. Lately, they only fix the issue/replace the item. Maybe, they spoiled me but to me that is sign of declining customer service. I used to be active Amazon advocate, introduced many of my friends to Amazon. But now I am pretty much on the other side.

jhall1468 8y ago
> Lately, they only fix the issue/replace the item. Maybe, they spoiled me but to me that is sign of declining customer service. That's a sign of "good" customer service vs over-the-top. They still send gift cards/free prime memberships from time-to-time, but frequent callers probably don't get those deals any more.

pbreit 8y ago

The Recode analysis was decent but problematic in that its test searches are pretty contrived. Does anyone really search for "shoes" or "cereal". There was only 1 reasonable search attempted "justins peanut butter" and the results were indeed mediocre. But I would have liked to have seen better testing.

joegahona 8y ago
I thought they were lame searches too, so I went to Amazon and searched "Bose headphones." Nothing above the fold was Bose headphones -- the second pair of headphones don't even have a brand listed. Thinking that wasn't specific enough, I tried "Bose noise-canceling headphones," and the same thing happened.

gascan 8y ago

You could have guessed that a chair mat (big) and cat litter (heavy) might not be products Amazon would be competitive with. I find they are mostly good for mid-price items that are not too heavy or bulky, especially moderately "niche" items that are not carried many places and benefit from the super saver shipping. (Super niche items are no-go of course)

vlunkr 8y ago

It's sad that Amazon was perfect IMO years ago, and I assume was very profitable even then. But continuous changes, mostly after the introduction of Prime, have just drug the core product down. I still use Amazon for some items just because the selection is still the most outrageously huge, but I'll also go to Walmart, Monoprice, Newegg, etc. and the prices have generally been better there.

Shivetya 8y ago

not only can you see the price increases cross shopping but simply going back through your past orders. I have a few items I purchase regularly; some food items and bird food too; and the pricing changes seem at times random but they only consistently move up. it has gotten so bad I do not automatically click the order again button. with regards to prime, you don't have to wait to cancel

schaefer 8y ago

> My Prime membership expires in a couple months time, and this time I'm not renewing it, after being a member for several years. Like many other in this thread - I have already canceled my prime membership for the first time since 2004.

dominotw 8y ago

> . the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Isn't extra $4 for shipping? You are comparing store pickup to something shipped to your home.

arbuge 8y ago
No. I was comparing to Walmart.com.

DoubleCribble 8y ago

You're not taking into consideration the fact that Amazon prices fluctuate rapidly, sometimes daily (hourly?). You can still find good deals on Amazon, you just need to get lucky and/or be patient with their pricing algorithm. Using a third party website like camelcamelcamel.com can help you see if you are really getting the "best price" that Amazon offers.

tehwebguy 8y ago

Not sure if your observation is one but many examples I hear about Amazon pricing seem to miss the fact that a growing percentage (recently at like 53%) are sold and priced by third party sellers.

qubax 8y ago

> Their basic underlying assumption appears to be that they're no longer in danger of losing customers and can now act accordingly. That's the assumption of google/youtube, facebook, microsoft, etc. Once you reach a dominant position, you don't have to care as much. You even see this with netflix. > A random example... the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 (both including free shipping but Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax). Bingo. Amazon used to be where the best prices were. Now so much of their products are more expensive than what you'd find in your local supermarket. And they are significantly more expensive.

prostoalex 8y ago

> Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax You are supposed to sum up those purchases and pay the state the 8.25% of use tax. Nobody exactly is doing that, and the cost of enforcement is high, but that’s what the state wants https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sutprograms.htm https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/taxes-and-fees/sutprograms.htm

wuliwong 8y ago

I never really thought that Amazon was the cheapest. The draw for me was always the free shipping and convenience. I actually don't remember Amazon ever marketing their service as having the cheapest price but I could be mistaken?

ljm 8y ago

I have to admit, it confounds me that fraud can exist on such a large scale in a platform, without really doing anything to damage trust in the platform itself. The internet does a fantastic job of taking what would otherwise be a localised cesspool, and making the entire thing efficient on a global level. And I'm sure this suits Amazon very well because I don't use Amazon for discovery. I do my research elsewhere and then buy through Amazon (prime only, of course) because I'm too impatient to wait a week for a delivery!

ZainRiz 8y ago

One bit of clarification: Amazon doesn't set the prices for most of the goods, the individual vendors do. But yes, those vendors are probably taking advantage of the effects you're talking about.

amazone2 8y ago

> the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 At least they're simply charging more. I found this battery charger [0] that costs more the more you buy! You can get 1 for ~$33.00, or you can get 3 for the price of 4 (~$133.00). I selected the single unit and set the amount to 3 and got them for ~100.00 rather than buying the 3-pack for $133.00. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC700-CBP-Battery-Charger/dp/B000RSOV50/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1536695611&sr=8-2&keywords=bc-700+battery+charger https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC700-CBP-Battery-C...

austhrow743 8y ago
That reminded me of a purchase I made a couple weeks ago. Washing powder where the 2kg is cheaper than the 1kg. That was a headscratcher. As far as I can tell they're both sold by the manufacturer. https://www.amazon.com.au/Cold-Power-Regular-Laundry-Brilliant/dp/B077JJSCDW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1 https://www.amazon.com.au/Cold-Power-Regular-Laundry-Brillia...

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

Amazon has to bake the cost of shipping and handling into their price structure. It isn't free for them and they can't take a loss on their core business operations forever. A mass market merchant who bulk ships to their stores has certain advantages over that model. One who stongarms their suppliers to sell them product with minimal to negative margin can beat Amazon. Walmart can only stock so many SKUs. You can't walk into a brick and mortar store and select from 1M+ products including niche items that aren't profitable to sell at retail.

tomcam 8y ago

This speaks to a bigger issue, which is that retail is hard. Now that Amazon can let down its hair and start charging prices that may actually be sustainable, we are learning that the local retailers it's driving out of business were actually fairly efficient. They didn't have the luxury of charging below-retail for 20 years, so they didn't look as attractive as Amazon did during that same period.

halr9000 8y ago

> the cat litter I just purchased is $17.89 at Amazon, $13.49 at Walmart. Last week I bought a chair mat for $21.95 on Ebay - identical item on Amazon was $33.95 (both including free shipping but Amazon came with an additional 8.25% sales tax). > They can do that because so many people don't price compare anymore before going to Amazon. "Alexa, reorder cat litter" So, no, I disagree with your premise here. They can demand a higher price by way of providing a better overall service, end to end, by way of innovation and hard work. Sure, some of it is in fact laziness like you say, when viewed one way. Viewed another, I am willingly paying for that convenience. Not to be tautological, but in a free market, this works as long as it works. Cheaper alternatives exist, no surprise there. But you need to take into account value, which is more than just price. "Alexa, set 11 minute pasta timer."

com2kid 8y ago

> They can do that because so many people don't price compare anymore before going to Amazon. There is also the fact that Amazon already has my info, it is worth a buck or two to not have to type all that in on my phone, or at least go through someone else's checkout process. With Amazon, I can think of something I need, pull out my phone, and with their app have it ordered in minutes. If I shop around and it takes me ~10 minutes (or more if it is a product category I am not familiar with), and then I give my info to another company that may lose it.

bamboozled 8y ago
Also achieved with PayPal
- jhall1468 8y ago
  From those that accept it, which isn't everyone.

phaedrus 8y ago

The issue with fakes (or deceivingly advertised) items on Amazon is something that seems to have gotten worse in the past year, and is a big reason I'm not renewing my Prime either. In one case I ordered a name-brand transmission rebuild kit but received a knock-off with a similar name. Unfortunately I didn't notice the difference before I dropped off the kit with the friend who was rebuilding the trans for me. He kept complaining about parts not in the kit, and I kept being mystified because I (thought I) bought the top of the line kit, there was no more-comprehensive one to buy? It wasn't until the next time I could get out to his house that I realized we'd been scammed; by then he'd already used part of the kit so I just bought another kit to get the missing parts. The second occurrence was I ordered a normally $30 set of 4 spark plugs for $20, and what I received was 1 spark plug - obviously the scam is break up the $30 pack and sell for 4x$20. I got a refund on this one and got to keep the plug, but it delayed an important engine repair and also left me with a dilemma as to how important it was that they match - I ended up using the one expensive plug and three mid-range plugs (because I would have just chosen 4 cheaper plugs in the first place if I'd known).

linuxftw 8y ago
Don't buy car parts from Amazon, they are almost always overpriced compared to competitors, let alone the risk of fakes (That you claim, I personally don't know of any counterfeit products I have purchased). Rockauto or Advance is the way to go in the US.
- phaedrus 8y ago
  Funny you should mention, as Rockauto came to the rescue for the transmission kit, and Advance for the spark plugs. Now I only go to Amazon if the car part isn't on Rockauto, but it begs the question - if this part is so obscure it's not on the specialty site, can I really trust this Amazon listing is actually the part I need, and that I will not instead receive, say, a used birdhouse?
  - linuxftw 8y ago
    I got my tranmission rebuild kit from RockAuto as well ;) The auto parts world is a tricky beast. If it's not sold by a major retailer, there's often the manufacturer or specialty sites for various classes of autos, especially classic cars and 4x4s. Ebay is another great place for used parts as well.

pavanlimo 8y ago

I used to land on Amazon as a defacto shopping place, until about a year ago. Now Aliexpress is the defacto for me.

KerrickStaley 8y ago

I agree with this. Walmart in particular seems to consistently offer lower prices and fewer fakes. Walmart has free 2-day shipping for orders over $35, which is almost as good as having Prime; I just have to batch up household items that I want to order instead of ordering them one at a time.

trumped 8y ago

The shipping origin of the products also dictates the costs... were any of those cheaper items shipped from China?

bogomipz 8y ago

>"Now that they've captured 50%+ of US ecommerce, they've also raised many prices, to the point where they're far from the cheapest price in many cases." This has been my observation as well, at least for a basket of household sundries and office supplies I was previously sourcing from Amazon. They were often more than a few dollars cheaper at a local store. I realized I had fallen into the too complacent to price shop trap for a while. I agree with your other points and for me deliveries issue started to become a regular occurrence. I think the bloom is off the rose with Amazon.

yuhong 8y ago

Amazon shows some of the problems of the current debt-based economy. Most Amazon orders are with credit card debt, and of course most of it is imported from China and will be affected by many of the Trump tariffs.

daveheq 8y ago

When people wake up, Amazon's gonna crash.

danmaz74 8y ago

As a very long time and satisfied-but-worried Amazon customer, I think that prices going up was something to be expected and not a surprise at all. Instead, the way they're dropping the ball with customer satisfaction is really surprising: I recently moved to London and started buying even more stuff online - most of it from Amazon, even if I often try to find alternatives just because I don't want them to become a monopoly. But the amount of broken or 'wrong' stuff I'm getting is really surprising. From one point of view this is very concerning to me as a customer. From another point of view, it's motivating me to find alternatives much more than just the idealistic worry was doing, so, there's at least a good point here.