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Is this the best evidence yet that Arm Macs are, in fact, coming in 2020?
by keithmancuso 8y ago
Is this the best evidence yet that Arm Macs are, in fact, coming in 2020?
- IB885588 8y agoWouldn't Apple design the whole thing internally without needing help from Arm? They have a world-class silicon design team in-house.
- nickik 8y agoThey would still have to pay for an ARM license, at least outside of RISC-V.
- gsnedders 8y agoDo we know what Apple is paying? Remember that ARM started as a joint project from Acorn, Apple, and VLSI. Apple certainly held a full architecture license from founding, despite not designing one until comparatively recently, which to me implies there's some specific license. I certainly assume they weren't paying large amounts for a license when relatively poor in the 90s despite holding one.
- CalChris 8y agoApple has an architecture license. I don't know what the terms of the license are but it allows Apple to develop architecture compliant chips. They were one of the original developers of the original ARM and held a large stock position in ARM Ltd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers
- dchest 8y agoApple doesn't use Arm-design cores, they design CPUs that use Arm ISA in-house, so this tells us nothing about Macs.
- SmallDeadGuy 8y agoHe didn't say they did, he just said Arm Mac. As in, Arm-based Mac so Arm architecture, whether that's designed by Arm, them, or fairies on the moon it doesn't matter.
- monocasa 8y agoApple cores out perform ARM cores. They don't care what ARM dies in this space because they're years ahead of them in perf already.
- dchest 8y agoThe linked article refers to Arm core designs roadmap. Qualcomm and others will use those cores in their SoC. Apple, on the other hand, no longer uses those cores, they design their own cores that just happen to use the same Arm instruction set. Their cores are already more performant than those provided by Arm, so they don't need those design to put A# CPU as the main processor into MacBooks, they would probably design their own. So, this article is not the best evidence that Apple will use Arm in Macs (even though, I believe this would eventually happen.)
- gsnedders 8y agoQualcomm also design their own implementations of ARM (e.g. the current Kyro), though they do definitely ship some things with ARM designed cores.
- dchest 8y agoSamsung too (Exynos M1-M3). I think Qualcomm designs are heavily modified Arm designs, though.
- uluyol 8y agoWhile Kryo used to be fully custom, lately it's been based off of the Cortex designs. I'm not just talking about the low end SoCs, but even their high end stuff. Anandtech usually has details on this.
- rsynnott 8y agoNo. Apple hasn't use ARM core designs in years.
- piyh 8y agoApple T2 chip, currently being used and produced.
- MBCook 8y agoBut that’s not an ARM design, right? It’s an Apple design either based on ARM or just using their instruction set. I don’t think Apple uses straight ARM chips for anything of consequence anymore (I imagine little low-power embedded ones still exist).
- pertymcpert 8y agoI don’t believe that’s an Arm design.
- thought_alarm 8y agoApple's software engineering team doesn't have the bandwidth to transition the Mac to a new architecture, and neither does their hardware team. And nobody wants a stripped-down, locked-down version of MacOS-Lite. So, no.
- wtetzner 8y ago> And nobody wants a stripped-down, locked-down version of MacOS-Lite. Plenty of people use iPads instead of laptops, no?
- thought_alarm 8y agoApple is focused on making iOS better, rather than making MacOS worse.
- endorphone 8y agoApple's software and hardware teams are absolute monsters compared to when they made the transition from PowerPC to x86. The toolset and maturity for cross-platform compilation is dramatically more advanced and mature. They could absolutely do this, and it seems eminently likely that they will in the near future.
- matwood 8y agoI would also bet the already have full macOS running on ARM internally. I think we are seeing the proof of this in the new libraries being released to support the iOS like apps (News and Stocks) on the Mojave.
- rasz 8y agoNo, Apple ARM laptop (most likely Air replacement) will ship with Apple custom ARM chip.
- slivym 8y agoThese chips are 5W TDP and around that area. The most powerful Intel CPUs in the Macbooks are 45W. So unless you're suggesting that ARM Is making CPUs that are literally 10x more power efficient, this actually seems to rule that out. This road map is great for maybe an entry level Mac. But it wouldn't be able to roll that out to the full line-up which I think makes it less likely.