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Katie's New Face

• tonetheman 8y ago
  That is amazing.
• syntaxing 8y ago
  The advancement on face transplant has been amazing to watch. Especially since the largely publicized face transplant for the Mississippi Firefighter two years ago (Patrick Hardison). Does anyone here know how long it takes for the face to "settle in" where the donor face and patient face start fusing? Also I noticed that the eye movements on all these transplants have a distinctive unusual movement to it. Is this a physical limitation where doctors/surgeons cannot operate too closely in the eye area due to the risk of damaaging the eye? Or is does it take a couple years for the muscles near the eye to adapt to the new face?
  • jamestimmins 8y ago
    One part of this said that the nerves needed a full year to heal after the transplant.
    • caymanjim 8y ago
      I still have areas of both numbness and hypersensitivity on my face from nerve damage that occurred when my wisdom teeth were removed decades ago. Both the damage and the current effects were and remain minor, but there's a noticeable improvement now vs. 10 years ago vs. 20 years ago.
  • UI_at_80x24 8y ago
    To echo what another poster already said, it's all about the nerves. Several years ago I tried to kill myself by cutting my neck. I sliced below the jaw-line from my ear to my chin. I still have "numb areas" after 3+ years, and there aren't really any muscles there that need to be controlled. It's very easy to imagine not ever getting full facial muscle control back in her situation.
    • forapurpose 8y ago
      I'm very glad you are here to tell us about it.
• radicaldreamer 8y ago
  Wow, this piece was powerful and unexpectedly emotional. Really puts into perspective adversity and hope.
• xeromal 8y ago
  It takes a brave soul to wake up every day and face the world after sustaining facial damage like that. I start feeling insecure after getting some acne on my face. May she be blessed for remaining strong.
  • IshKebab 8y ago
    Yeah especially because it was a result of a suicide attempt in the first place. If you try to kill yourself after your boyfriend cheats on you, how do you not after this? Also, yet another reason why America's gun laws are stupid. She wouldn't have shot herself in England.
    • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
      She might've just overdosed on something or jumped off a bridge in England. You don't need a gun to commit suicide. Also the US has gun laws and gun owners organizations, they all agree that at home, you should store your guns in a locked container.
      • DanBC 8y ago
        Guns are usually instantly fatal and available in the home. Overdosing is dangerous, but it's less lethal than gunshot. Falls from high places are dangerous, but it requires the person makes a plan to travel to that location which doesn't fit for the rapid onset nature of many suicide attempts. Death by falls and fracture (these include jumping in front of trains) account for a small number of deaths by suicide. So, people can do it. But they tend not to do it. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2016registrations#suicide-methods https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...
      • redlorryyellow 8y ago
        No, you don't need a gun, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier, and the extra effort involved to do it without a gun often stops people.
      • 8y ago
• RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
  > Much of Katie’s care is being paid for by the Department of Defense, because her youth and ballistic trauma make her a stand-in for wounded warriors. For the rest of her life, she’ll take powerful antirejection drugs with risks of their own, becoming a lifelong subject in the study of this still experimental surgery. Kudos to the DoD for doing this. The military historically has been the driver for advances in surgery. This will not only benefit Katie, but the knowledge gained from this will also benefit many wounded soldiers in the future.
  • maxxxxx 8y ago
    There are a ton of pictures of WW1 soldiers who had similar injuries. This type of surgery is definitely very important for military.
    • ansible 8y ago
      The Great War channel covered this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYPtmFZqKC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYPtmFZqKC0 Just like the article, it isn't an easy video to watch.
      • maxxxxx 8y ago
        When I was at German military we saw similar videos for our first aid training. The video opened my eyes. In my view this should be required viewing for everyone to make sure they understand what war really is. With all the cool smart bombs, jet fighters and night vision goggles it's being portrayed as way too clean and fun.
        • jacquesm 8y ago
          And with war-by-remotecontrol it gets ever closer to looking and feeling like a video game where you go home to your family after killing a bunch of people on the other side of the world.
          • 8y ago
• GW150914 8y ago
  Holy shit. It’s incredible that someone could survive such extensive damage, never mind recover in any way. I’m impressed by her fortitude and the skills of her many doctors. At the same time, I would rather die than go through all of that myself. I guess she’s just a stronger person, much much stronger.
• brianyu8 8y ago
  Non-interactive version of the article can be found here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/09/face-transplant-katie-stubblefield-story-identity-surgery-science/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/09/face-tra...
  • dang 8y ago
    Thanks, we've switched to that more textual link. The interactive version is pretty impactful, so people should probably look at both. That link is https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/09/face-transplant-katie-stubblefield-photography-interactive/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/09/face-tra....
    • culot 8y ago
      Oh wow, that is a different experience from the mainly-text version. The text version is missing a lot of images, it seems.
  • bscphil 8y ago
    Ironically, it was this link of the two that was so heavy with Javascript and downloads that I gave up on viewing it on my phone.
  • pferde 8y ago
    It's still a crappy version - since when do browsers need javascript in order to display images? I know that it is off-topic, and the topic of the article is much more serious than web technology, but I feel it is always worth pointing out that if a high-profile website like www.nationalgeographic.com can't provide elementary functionality without javascript, what hope is there for the smaller websites? In this case, though, I am glad the images are not shown, the text description was gruesome enough.
    • danso 8y ago
      I'm generally averse to JS-heavy presentations but I wouldn't consider this "crappy" -- in fact, I think this might be the best usecase/justification of such a format that I've yet seen, and this includes the NYT's Pulitzer-winning Snow Fall [0]. The JS in the NatGeo story is used for certain important and dramatic effects, such as the transition from a full page photo of the patient's original face, to the x-ray after her suicide attempt, to what her face looked like after the 22 reconstruction surgeries. The JS allows for as graceful a transition as possible while forcing the user to see the entirety of each of the faces. Scrolling through the photos with a standard vertical scroll would not have the same effect. Nor would a static layout of the 3 photos side by side (since they'd have to be drastically scaled down in size). As you said, the subject matter is gruesome. The photos are best seen each all at once, as they would on a magazine print page. The JS for the feature works as a pretty good digital replacement for a physical page turn, IMO. [0] http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/index.html http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/index.html
• jdalgetty 8y ago
  chilling
• foobaw 8y ago
  This is an amazing story. I wonder how many years it will take until we can fully reconstruct a face kind of like Elysium (movie) style.
• WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago
  It's wrong that assisted suicide is illegal. The only humane thing to do here is let her pass in peace.
  • monkeynotes 8y ago
    Seems to me she wants to live. I am not sure anyone would go through with that surgery if they did not want to live. Edit: Reading more about the story. Her suicide attempt was entirely impulsive and not premeditated at all. > "I never thought of doing that ever before, and so on hearing about it, I just didn't know how to handle it," she told National Geographic. "I felt so guilty that I had put my family through such pain. I felt horrible." This is not an appropriate story to be talking about assisted suicide as it does not apply what-so-ever. This is more of a teenage depression / gun control discussion if there is to be any relevant meta-discussion at all.
    • WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago
      If you want to talk about inappropriate, talking about gun control in relation to this story is COMPLETELY inappropriate here. This 100% is a story about suicide, hence my comment about assisted suicide.
      • Arainach 8y ago
        Firearms advocates don't think that it's ever the appropriate time to talk about the issues. It's always "too soon" after a tragedy because guns cause so many tragedies in America every day. This story is about someone who needs a new face because she made an impulsive decision and had access to a gun, so it removed her face. No other form of suicide would have led to this scenario. In fact, if there wasn't an easily accessible gun, it's entirely possible this might not have led to a suicide attempt at all. Gun control is ESSENTIAL to this story.
      • roguecoder 8y ago
        Gun access increases the rate of youth suicides: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-own...
• PunchTornado 8y ago
  They didn't mention in which state was the donor before her grandmother agreed to donate her face. Was she already dead from the overdose? Did they just take the full skull to the hospital?
  • waylandsmithers 8y ago
    I think it mentioned that she was in a coma when the grandmother made that decision. A fascinating part of this is considering whether I as an organ donor would want my face continuing to exist on someone else after my own death.
    • 52-6F-62 8y ago
      After this story I'd personally make it a given for me. I've been an organ donor since I could first give the okay, but take whatever the hell you need from me and as much as you can salvage if I've died.
      • throwaway5752 8y ago
        I wish that in all of these stories that the donor would be celebrated as much as possible. It's extraordinary how such a trivial gesture (like you: strip mine me when I'm gone, I've got no more use for it...) can have have - without exaggeration - life-and-death existential impacts on so many people. Easiest way to be a hero. ps: if you're reading this and are not signed up as an organ donor, please consider taking a minute to do so right now: https://www.dmv.org/organ-donor.php https://www.dmv.org/organ-donor.php
    • Markoff 8y ago
      it's not like the recipient will be resembling you at all, they almost never look anything like donor
  • giarc 8y ago
    I think in the one picture you can see them removing the donor face and it appears her whole body is present.
• grillorafael 8y ago
  Does anyone know why most (if not all) face transplant have such wide jaw line ?
  • etrevino 8y ago
    I have the same question. The only thing I learned, though, was that there are plans to shave down Katie's jaw so that it looks more natural.
  • da_chicken 8y ago
    I would guess that it's swelling and scar tissue buildup (fibrosis) from the surgery and ongoing autoimmune response. As far as her immune system is concerned, the grafted face is a foreign invader. She's going to take anti-rejection drugs her whole life and she will always be at risk for total rejection in the future.
    • specialist 8y ago
      I can confirm that cyclosporin and prednisone, two immunosuppressive medications, make the patient bigger.
      • philjohn 8y ago
        And prednisone has a common side effect called moon face, which is pretty much this.
      • da_chicken 8y ago
        Oh, that's true I'd forgotten about that. They're usually steroids and that's a common side effect.
• monkeynotes 8y ago
  She's pretty brave to go through all of that, so much pain in so many ways. I think had this been my own situation I'd rather have some kind of plastic prosthetic than someone else's face and a lifetime of rejection treatment. I just don't think my psychology could handle the physical and emotional pain of accepting another face. That said, I know little about living with the alternative that she was dealing with. Crazy story.
  • toast_coder 8y ago
    I don't think plastic is an option. There isnt an artificial material that can replace skin. The options are to keep the mangled face, or replace.
    • slfnflctd 8y ago
      I think monkeynotes was more talking about a high quality mask. After this article, I'm thinking I would feel the same way. I'm not sure I could handle going through this process, especially all the unending maintenance required afterward. I hope Katie and her family are continually keeping in mind how they are helping push medical science forward and benefiting future patients. That's a big part of the value of these efforts, in my mind.
      • PeterisP 8y ago
        It's not about cosmetics that can be tackled with a high quality mask - it's also about all the practical functions that the face needs to tackle; e.g. the lip musculature necessary for speech and eating, eyelid/tearduct function, and nose breathing. If you're missing lots of tissue from your face, you will need a transplant (inevitably high maintenance) of some kind, so it might as well be a full-face one.
      • culot 8y ago
        Besides the functional issues she has pre-transplant, there is the devastating daily effects of being seen as and treated like a monster by society at large. It would be bad enough to handle your own reflection in the mirror each day, but to know that everywhere you go you'd be treated as less-than, would be treated cruelly with some regularity, would be basically treated as sub-human by most people -- that kind of toll on ones psyche is immense, and there is little chance she'd ever have much quality of life. If the choice is between being a monster guaranteed to be mistreated and abhorred by most people vs potentially being a somewhat decently normal-looking person, then I think there is no way that someone would choose the way of the monster.
• PAClearner 8y ago
  woah-also this really like-viscerally demonstrates the destructive power of rifles.
  • casefields 8y ago
    Yeah, so destructive she took a head shot and lived.
    • mmirate 8y ago
      She lost her eyesight and several years of her youth; it's a safe assumption that many HN readers, my future self included, owe significant chunks of their careers and lives (pardon the redundancy) to those two things. She - like a mentally-vegetative senior citizen on life-support - reminds us how little the word "alive" really means, by itself.
    • PAClearner 8y ago
      did you read the article? she clearly suffered severe damage.
  • mmirate 8y ago
    Indeed. If you're hunting large animals, you want to cause plenty of destruction to a vital location in a single shot, so that the animal dies quickly and humanely. (And you certainly don't shoot at their face, parallel to their face.) If you own dangerous tools that don't happen to be useful outside hunting (bolt-action, small magazine, high-penetration cartridges), you also want to store the dangerous tool in a secure manner. That clearly was not the case in this story.
    • Markoff 8y ago
      why anyone need to hunt animals again? killing animals for fun seem like odd hobby in country so focused on no harm done during shooting movie or other times to any animals, seem animals there get better treatment than many citizens with exception of hunting
• jbob2000 8y ago
  > While the two were outside talking about how upset Katie was, she went into the bathroom, put the barrel of Robert’s .308-caliber hunting rifle below her chin, and pulled the trigger. Why did she have access to that gun? I bet Robert considers himself a "safe" gun owner too. Keep your guns locked and separate from your ammunition. Gun culture takes another victim.
  • Markoff 8y ago
    better solution would be not having guns at all, you don't see these suicides in Europe or very rarely due to limited access
    • PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
      I see this as on par with banning alcohol to drastically reduce drunk driving. People tend to not support that one because they see, though they would likely never formulate the thought in such a fashion, that having the freedom to buy and consume alcohol is worth the trade off of people drunk driving and the lives ruined by it. Of course, other actions are done to reduce the harm of drunk driving, but people are not willing to give up alcohol for it. Many people, especially in the USA, view guns in the same manner. I do find it odd that some people who hold the first view concerning alcohol find the second view as being immoral.
      • Markoff 8y ago
        i don't find these comparable, at least not in Europe, drink driving cause very few deaths in car accidents statistics which are already drastically better than they have been and pretty much everyone adult drinks at least occasionally, I seriously doubt pretty much every adult in US shoot gun occasionally let alone own it but I don't see problem with ban on alcohol even if it would save only few people killed by drunk drivers, because it would decrease cases of domestic violence and violence in general and most importantly for me we would get completely rid off those hordes of drunk Britons roaming our cities, also no drunks (homeless) in streets and cleaner public transport and streets would be nice, so it sounds like great trade off, not because of drunk drivers deaths which are really rare to ban alcohol from majority of adult population, but because of other factors, so great idea and I say this as someone who was basically alcoholic for a year in my first job in China where we drink spirit (baiju) during lunch break and then after work, then after switching jobs basically stopped drinking completely and now back in Europe me and wife consume maybe 1-2 bottles of wine per month so it's not like we are abstainers that it would not affect me, although i think charging like 500-1000% tax on alcohol and raising agree limit to 30-40 years and strictly enforcing it would seem more realistic regarding voters than complete ban, after all those people with alcohol issues started usually very young
• Markoff 8y ago
  isn't she too young for transplant, are the bones and other parts completely settled at such age? in the end of article they mention eyes transplants, is she blind currently? what is success rate of these have transplants and what is plan B in case of rejection, can they keep the face and just suppress reaction or it gets that bad that face must be removed? and during the suicide attempt she blew only face without parts of brain? it's not clear from 3D image
  • monkeynotes 8y ago
    Apparently her brain was exposed. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-survivor-becomes-youngest-face-transplant-recipient-in-u-s/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-survivor-becomes-younge...
• 40acres 8y ago
  Jesus that was difficult. How the hell did she even survive the gunshot wound?
  • gambiting 8y ago
    Human bodies are weirdly resilient. Sometimes you can trip while walking, hit the wrong bit of your head and die on the spot. Other times, someone shoots themselves in the fact and survives. I guess she missed all the absolutely vital parts, so she survived.
    • azernik 8y ago
      Even so, the parts that the bullet missed still underwent enormous stress - note all the mention of brain injury just from concussive force, rather than a direct hit - and still survived.
  • mmirate 8y ago
    Looks like she aimed almost completely parallel to her skull, causing the bullet to expend most of its energy on bone. It barely had any energy left by the time it reached her brain. Her choice of aim was likely just the first thing to come to mind, given her short stature compared to the length of a Remington rifle. Had she thought on this one iota more, tilted her neck down and placed the muzzle onto her forehead ... the result would have been very different. I should also point out that since a bolt-action .308 is just about one of the worst possible civilian weapons to use for home-defense, and that therefore it was likely a hunting tool ... there was no excuse for this gun and its ammunition to be kept in an insecure manner.
    • bdowling 8y ago
      The linked article says nothing about the rifle in question being a bolt-action, Remington or other make, and nothing about how the rifle or ammunition was stored. Do you have some other source for your information or are you speculating?
      • 8y ago
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• saudioger 8y ago
  I'd like to think I could be as strong as this woman, but I honestly don't know if I could be... I don't know if a person should have to be. I hope the procedure can manage to give her some small semblance of peace.
  • mmirate 8y ago
    I am what I can do: programming, music and road-racing. If I had lost even just my sight in the same manner as this young woman, let alone at the same age ... my only remaining desire would be to try again and aim better.
  • jfsid 8y ago
    The article alleged they weren't going to work with her if they deemed her at risk of trying to take her life again. I think it's anyone's guess what is going on in her mind, given that expressing any doubt her is worth living would result in future refusals to help (such as in the event her body rejects this face). As someone who sincerely has every intention of "being strong", my current behavior is indistinguishable from the times I was pretending to be strong due to the huge cost of behaving otherwise.
• crescentfresh 8y ago
  As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.
  • vlasev 8y ago
    A good first step would be to create a good life for them that they could always go back to in the event if such a crisis. If you are happy or at least content being by yourself, even if you get cheated on, you can get back to normal. If you are empty without a partner and then get cheated on, you lose a lot more.
  • davebryand 8y ago
    I like to think of my role as "dad" is to prepare my kids as opposed to protecting them. Life is going to happen, we can't protect them from everything. What we can do is help our kids create themselves in such a way that "emotional chaos" is not part of their experience.
  • practice9 8y ago
    > I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path. Can't even imagine how guilty boyfriend feels in this situation..
  • oihoaihsfoiahsf 8y ago
    What happened to Katie is super sad, but hundreds of thousands of people get dumped and cheated on every year without shooting themselves. I totally understand your feelings, because I also worry for my children. But I also try to do a few things: 1. Try to help my kids keep things in perspective. Don't hide the risk of pain and failure from them. Instead, warn them that such things will happen, and try to teach resilience. 2. Watch out for signs of depression in my kids. If I ever see them, I'll treat it seriously and get them help as soon as possible. 3. That said, I also try to keep things in perspective myself. There are so many big risks. The best I can do is care for my little ones as best I can.
• philipodonnell 8y ago
  Content aside, the usability of this layout needs some work. Its very "page-focused" with each image having a small bit of overlaid text content, but the breaks between pages are impossible to tell because the actual content only scrolls a tiny vertical amount and then suddenly changes pages before fading in the next bit of text. Using page up/down jumps to random spots instead of to a natural break with the next page/text centered. It takes more then one entire scroll on my mouse to move less than one page and I found myself furiously scrolling the wheel just to move through the article at an appropriate reading pace. NYT does these kind of scrolling picture stories but at least in those its long-form content interspersed with images and it scrolls at a "normal" pace for most of the article.
  • Markoff 8y ago
    yeah, the images were loading for me when i almost scrolled then out of screen on mobile, never experienced such late loading with other pages
  • eafkuor 8y ago
    > Content aside, the usability of this layout Come on, do we really need this comment on every post? Especially this one?
    • danso 8y ago
      I actually expected more of those type of comments. It is a "heavy" kind of interactive experience, and I'm generally not a fan of them, especially the throttling of the mouse scroll, but this is one of the few cases (and maybe the only one I can think of not done by the NYT) in which the extra animation and load times enhanced the storytelling and visual effect.
    • pferde 8y ago
      Yes, we do. You are free to skip any subthread you are not interested in, even to collapse/minimize it if you have javascript enabled for this site.
      • 8y ago
• gdubs 8y ago
  This is an incredible work of journalism, the gravity of which is felt within the opening paragraphs and photos. Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
• mavdi 8y ago
  Christ what a difficult story. A single moment of pure stupidity and madness can ruin ones life and the lives of loved ones instantly.
• qiqing 8y ago
  Notable call-to-action from the article: > Adrea Schneider’s organs and tissues have helped at least seven people. > From halting infections to curing blindness, a single donor can save or > improve more than 70 lives. Enroll to donate organs, eyes, and tissues > at RegisterMe.org and marrow at BeTheMatch.org. To donate a kidney > or part of a liver or other organ while alive, contact a transplant center.
  • philjohn 8y ago
    The UK is soon to be moving to an opt out for organ donation (with the usual caveat that family members can still refuse to allow it), I was saddened to see some people spinning it as "the government wants control over my body" when all it takes is a simple checkbox to say you don't want to be a part of it.
    • labbyz 8y ago
      Make it opt-in. Then you give control away to the government deliberately. All it takes is a simple checkbox to say you want to be a part of it. It should be easier to receive mailing list spam, than it is to sign over your body, but opt-out makes it the other way around. Forgetting (or being unwilling to be forced) to sign a checkbox does not make one a willing participant, but an unwitting one. I understand this saves lives, but then again, lots of unconstitional actions may save lives. No excuse. No convience. You, and only you, as an adult, has sovereignity over your body. Opt-out is a grave breach of this sovereignity. That is the spin "the government wants control over my body": A violation of your human rights and a government-run organ market.
      • bodas 8y ago
        Bodies are a kind of use it or lose it deal. If you are buried, everything except your bones and teeth will be eaten. Organ donation is the least of your sovereignty problems.
        • labbyz 8y ago
• SpikeDad 8y ago
  That was a difficult article (pictures actually) to read. It shows (to me at least) how intimately our humanity is linked to a face that passes our own internal pattern matching heuristics. I'm not proud to admit my initial thought was not how difficult life must be for her but rather how deformed her face was. But then I was proud that my (our) inherent human intelligence and morality was able to put that thought aside and wonder what I could do to help her.
  • Waterluvian 8y ago
    My sense is that leap from emotional response to logical response is the lynchpin to so much potential we can unlock in millions, if not billions more of us. Lots of us can't make that leap, and it costs us.
  • buxtehude 8y ago
    For many who have facial deformities, depending on how severe, every day can be a challenge as they are continually reminded by the condition they live with - and potentially the inherent limitations (actual or self-imposed) of that condition. This can be a very negative space to be in - day in and day out. I urge all of you with children, to please foster empathy in your little people for other people less fortunate. Children can at times say the most brutal and hurtful things - and these hurtful words or even laughter - especially for children with deformities - can be very painful. While shocking to see the pictures in this article, I hope many (most? all?) of us feel great empathy for her or others with facial or other deformities. Thank you for being so open about your reactions to the article.
    • fjsolwmv 8y ago
      "less fortunate" is a strange way to describe the victim of a condition that isn't bad luck, it's a moral crime perpetrated against her by all the pet around her.
      • SpikeDad 8y ago
        Geez you don't seem to be able to scrape up any sympathy for someone that felt suicide was their only way out. I believe the converse - if there was a way for people to end their lives painlessly and surely (with the proper safeguards, blah blah blah) it might have served her better. But in our reality I'm pleased society has stepped up for her.
• realo 8y ago
  Question: can the same organ be donated more than once? Imagine a "face" that would exist for many generations, given from one to another multiple times... Not sure what to think of that.
  • azernik 8y ago
    Not yet. They mentioned that the donor had to be from someone of a similar age; these things deteriorate over time, like the rest of our bodies. Even for internal organs, younger is better.
• WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago
  If I'm ever in this situation, I hope somebody just Million Dollar Baby's me.
  • robbomacrae 8y ago
    Did you possibly mean Six Million Dollar Man?
    • egonschiele 8y ago
      Someone pulls the plug in the movie Million DOllar Baby.
• VectorLock 8y ago
  As impressed as I am by the facial transplant I think I'm even more in awe of the fact that they were able to save her life after sustaining such a grievous maxillofacial and cranial injury. I can't even fathom the amount of intensity it probably took to keep her among us.
• DoctorOetker 8y ago
  > The face surgeons go first. But since organs are precious and face transplants are not lifesaving, if the donor’s condition started to decline, the team would have to abandon its work to allow other surgeons to collect the donated organs. What exactly is meant with "if the donor's condition started to decline"? How does one monitor the condition of organs in a dead body? What technology is used to monitor the state of organs in a dead body?
  • goodells 8y ago
    I’m only an EMT, but I can try to answer this for you. The organ donor was brain dead, but the heart continued to beat and a ventilator was used. The organs would stay perfused with oxygen and nutrients and the surgery would be performed as if the donor were otherwise alive. Surgery is inherently risky - risks include spontaneous bleeding or clotting that could abruptly end the organ recovery. I believe this is the situation they are referring to.
    • DoctorOetker 8y ago
      As an EMT do you frequently witness people being pronounced/determined brain dead? If so what does it look like? I can't imagine an EEG device being attached to each presumed dead patient to double check? Or is that in fact what happens to each patient dying in the care of a hospital? I am very fascinated about the possible technology involved for monitorinng the state of these organs while the face was being removed. Or am I overimagining and its mostly heart rate, and blood content (oxygen, glucose, what others?) ? Us normal citizens -seldom in contact with death- we must have an oversimplified view of alive vs dead: atomic (before and after) and monolithic (the whole person is dead, or the whole person is alive), while we are in fact multicellular organisms and some cells have more demanding needs to be met depending on cell type, location in the body, and so on. I can imagine a failing human body prioritizes the functionality of some organs over others? In the text they mention that donor side and acceptor side can initiate communication through the centralized authority, without obligation to respond, and if they both consent they are allowed to meet each othe as happened here. Here they had to request explicit permission for the face. What happens if there was not enough time for properly removing the face yet the donor's next of kin try to ccontact the (non-existent) acceptor? Do they get by policy a "no counterparty response" boilerplate, or are they informed that in fact there was no recipient due to complications?
• roguecoder 8y ago
  If you have children, don't own guns.
  • mirimir 8y ago
    Maybe. Or dogs or chimps, either, from what I've read.
    • not_weev 8y ago
      Or swimming pools, trampolines, etc.
      • fjsolwmv 8y ago
        That's good advice, especially pools. Pools are sneakily dangerous and homeowners generally can't afford good security. (Not to mention the wastefulness of the expense of a private home pool.) Although some basic precautions (100% gate around pool) are underutilized but go a long way.
  • not_weev 8y ago
    She went to her brother's place. It was his hunting rifle. Do you comment on stories about Nikki Catsouras that her family should not have owned a Porsche? Or a car at all?
    • plants 8y ago
      If you're curious like me and wanted to know what happened to Nikki Catsouras, skip it. There are some _extremely_ gruesome images that come up when you search for the incident.
      • casefields 8y ago
        Yup. Also known as Porsche Girl.
  • gig3m 8y ago
• deleted 8y ago
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• msallin 8y ago
  Sorry to be that guy, but is there a text-only way to read this article? I just can't handle the images, they're haunting me.
  • fjsolwmv 8y ago
    Turn off images in your browser settings. Or download the whole "complete web page" and then delete the image assets you download.
  • ars 8y ago
    Ctrl-A to select all, Ctrl-C to copy, then copy into an editor that does not support images, only text.
  • danso 8y ago
    I had to look away at some points in the story. Kudos to the photographer and the editor for choosing such powerful if uncomfortable imagery.
• iamjk 8y ago
  This is the most inspiring thing I've seen in a long time. Humanity is awesome.
• martin1975 8y ago
  I couldn't read past the first few paragraphs, just killed me. Does the story have a happy ending?
  • puranjay 8y ago
    As happy as you could possibly get in this situation. Katie would be a "professional patient" all her life, but she can at least go out in public without everyone staring at her. She wouldn't look normal - perhaps ever - but with a scarft and some glasses, she'd melt right into any crowd. Which is a mighty achievement.
• sytelus 8y ago
  While the two were outside talking about how upset Katie was, she went into the bathroom, put the barrel of Robert’s .308-caliber hunting rifle below her chin, and pulled the trigger. When Robert kicked in the locked door, he found his little sister covered in blood. “And her face is gone,” he recalled Who puts a loaded hunting rifle in so accessible way in their homes?
  • trcollinson 8y ago
    Maybe I’m missing part of the article but who says it was just laying around loaded? It obviously wasn’t locked up as well as it could have been. But I’m sure she knew how to load the rifle and pull the trigger. It’s not a complicated process at all.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
• abhchand 8y ago
  That photo of a face just lying on the table disturbs me...
  • erikig 8y ago
    Likewise. I'd never have expected to say this about a NatGeo article but a warning as to how graphic the pictures were would have been helpful
• puranjay 8y ago
  This is an overwhelming story. I'm awed, amazed, and filled with a strange sense of almost religious reverence for the surgeons' work, the family's struggle, and the gumption it must take to endure the suffering. Just wow.
• pcvpcvpcv 8y ago
  Amazing story, incredible work by the doctors. The second level of the story is exposing the all-too-common issues of American society: Katie's rushed suicide attempt using her brother's unsecured rifle and the donor being an amphetamine overdose. It's horrifying but at least it fits together this time.
• justsomedude43 8y ago
  If you're getting a new face, why not look like Amber Heard, why go with Joker?