23 ms·

Microsoft announces Surface Go

242 points by ductionist 8y ago

shams93 8y ago
The problem is the limited api for windows universal apps. This is a nice price point but I doubt its going to be as capable as the ipad 2018 or chromebooks on low end hardware because windows desktop apps struggle with less than a core i5 behind them.
- nailer 8y ago
  Can you upgrade Windows S to a regular Windows? I want to see if this can run vscode and powershell.
  - SifJar 8y ago
    Windows S is now just a "mode", can easily switch to Windows 10 Home instead
    - i_don_t_know 8y ago
      Can you switch to Windows 10 Professional? (Paid upgrade would be fine.)
      - wklauss 8y ago
        You can. And if I recall correctly it's free for the first year.
        hsivonen 8y ago
        Ars Technica say $50, but it could mean a preinstall. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/cheap-surface-go-now-official-399-10-inches-pentium-processor/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/cheap-surface-go-now...
- kingosticks 8y ago
  Since Microsoft are more into Linux these days, might we see a consumer device running something other than Windows, or is that still too wacky? I'd be interested in this if it had vaguely decent support for Ubuntu (or whatever), up to the same standard as Dell's project Sputnik effort. If they truly have shifted their focus to Office/Cloud stuff then surely this starts to become more likely. Or just my wishful thinking.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    You're kidding, right? Professing love for Open Source by releasing a code editor or buying GitHub is one thing, profit margins are another. Why would they voluntarily help in increasing desktop Linux market share? It's literally in the worst interests of the company.
    - jonhendry18 8y ago
      "Why would they voluntarily help in increasing desktop Linux market share?" In hopes of attracting developers to Azure rather than AWS
    - kingosticks 8y ago
      No. The worst interests of MS today would be to build products around competing cloud platforms.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    > Since Microsoft are more into Linux these days, You have bought way too much into the Microsoft PR. Microsoft does not love Linux, they just use it as a cash cow when it's convenient for them (in the server space, for Azure services) but that's the extent of it. Don't expect to see any real Microsoft offering like Office on any Linux distro.
    - kingosticks 8y ago
      No... and I never said they 'love Linux' either! I just know they use it more for enterprise than they previously did and I know they are no longer focused on Windows as they once were. A decent MS Office experience on Linux would be nice for some maybe, but personally I have no interest in that. I am assuming you can use Office 365 in any web browser (i.e Chrome/Firefox on Linux) but I confess I have never tried.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Thankfully you're not limited to windows universal apps on this thing (you can choose to be so limited for security reasons though). This means ridiculously good gaming on the go, absurdly large software library (runs most software from windows 3.0 onwards) ... I'll be getting one.
- wklauss 8y ago
  > I doubt its going to be as capable as the ipad 2018 or chromebooks on low end hardware. Forget 2018. This processor is roughly equal to the A8x (think iPads from 2016) and I doubt it will handle normal Windows 10 well on the 4 GB / 64 GB configuration.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  UWP API space is still more feature rich for desktop applications than iPad or ChromeOS. Besides that have been improving UWP in every Windows release and are incrementally merging both worlds, as shown at a few BUILD 2018 sessions. Next Windows 10 Office will be store only, also demoed at BUILD 2018.
- ZuLuuuuuu 8y ago
  UWP APIs are pretty capable and rich with features. If you are talking about the app selection in the store, that is another thing. And Windows 10 works pretty well on lower spec machines as well, it was designed to work efficiently even on mobile devices.
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  UWP apps are not as limited as people seem to think they are. They require a different programming model, but are capable of just about everything you'd want to do with a non-UWP app. Fluent Design is even pushing out a lot of "Enterprise" controls lately to bridge the gap in making sure that apps that want things like Fluent ribbons, traditional menu bars (why?) and dense scrolling datagrids (ugh, sigh, we will never be rid of the business pox of spreadsheets) have official options now (and at least some ability to fit in beside other Fluent Design controls). Beyond that, traditional Win32 applications are allowed in the Store now (have been for some time), so S Mode isn't even limited to UWP anymore. Applications like iTunes are already in the Store, with better, more reliable install/update/uninstall now.
Angostura 8y ago
No SIM from the look of it
- SifJar 8y ago
  Under "Where do you want to Go?" header: > We’re also happy to share that an LTE model will be arriving later this year.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Thank you for the correction. I shouldn't have searched for SIM :)
cm2187 8y ago
And still no slot for the pen. So you will have to carry a tablet and carry a pen.
- manigandham 8y ago
  The pen attaches magnetically. And you can use your finger.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    In my experience that still gets lost in a bag or knocked off.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      Losing pens and video adapters is definitely a weak point of the original surface design. [I ended up using cable ties to attach a video adapter to the power supply cable - not elegant but it does stop be losing yet another one].
    - loa-in-backup 8y ago
      You can use your pockets - foolproof!
ZuLuuuuuu 8y ago
Does anybody see this as a great front-end development machine? You can install Chrome, Sublime or Visual Studio Code since it is full Windows and I assume it would be able to handle those programs performance-wise with its Pentium processor. You can test mobile touch experience since it has touch screen. It has a nice keyboard with touchpad and you can even connect external display on your home setup if you want. I don't know if the processor can handle it but maybe you can even install PyCharm to the 8gb memory version for some back end programming as well?
- cm2187 8y ago
  If you need to type a lot, I think you would probably get a better millage with a true keyboard / laptop. I was struggling with the keyboard of the larger Surface Pro. Haven't tried this one but I doubt it is going to be very comfortable. I imagine the use case is rather people who need to use it a lot as a tablet, i.e. to view presentations or emails during meetings or on the go.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    This is absolutely on-point. I used the Type Cover "3" and "4" (current) extensively; while they're impressive feats of engineering and some of the best keyboards for the weight/size/thickness, they're nowhere near a normal laptop keyboard, the attachment angle is wrong, and if you have large hands, outright uncomfortable. I actually try to steer people interested in Microsoft's Surface line towards the Surface Laptop and Surface Book these days, in no small part because of the improved keyboard experience. I'd strongly recommend going to BestBuy/Microsoft Store and trying a Surface Pro with Type Cover for a long period before buying, then try the Surface Laptop/Book.
- csomar 8y ago
  Don't you need like a big screen if you want to do front-end development? Especially if you are debugging with Chrome and need the editor on the side too.
  - jamesgeck0 8y ago
TekMol 8y ago
Does Linux run well on the Surface? If so, it would be an interesting device. 10" is somewhat small though. And I guess the weight of 1.15 pounds is without a keyboard. Any guesses how much a keyboard will add on top of that?
- ximeng 8y ago
  I wouldn't bet on it personally - I did run linux ok on my old Surface Pro, but found the hardware less than reliable in general and had a couple of driver problems to work around.
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  It tends to take a few years before it runs well on any hardware like this. Come back in 2020 and if you still care it’ll probably work well.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  Check r/surfacelinux, but to answer your question, usually you can Linux well when it's patched to support all the non-standard hardware. If I recall correctly, Surface up to Surface III are well supported so far.
- gaius 8y ago
  I am using WSL to target Linux from VS2017 and it works like a dream. Twice as fast as VirtualBox (at least) and everything I need right there. Ubuntu and Debian.
  - r3bl 8y ago
    WSL =/= running Linux. WSL == a compatibility layer on top of Windows kernel with binaries on top. WSL doesn't contain a single line of code from Linux.
    - jaxn 8y ago
      If you are talking about the Linux kernel, true. If you are talking about "Gnu/Linux" then not.
fredley 8y ago
> We pioneered categories like the 2:1 This is completely meaningless to me, and I'm more clued up than most people on this stuff. Why does Microsoft continue to sell—by the looks of it—pretty decent hardware with terrible marketing copy? > Since my two youngest daughters... This paragraph is completely shoehorned in, and in a different voice (the rest of the article is "We"). It's so clunky it hurts. Come on Microsoft.
- mattlondon 8y ago
  i think it means "two in one" - i.e. its a laptop, and a tablet, in one. (i.e. its a laptop with a detachable keyboard). Not sure they pioneered it - I had an ancient Android tablet where you could take the keyboard off (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_Pad_Transformer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_Pad_Transformer) that was released in 2011. Pretty sure that wasn't the first either - anyone know of any earlier ones?
  - wklauss 8y ago
    Probably the TabletPCs pioneered it. And those were Microsoft, circa 2000 / 2005
    - MagnumOpus 8y ago
      Well, the Compaq Concerto pioneered it in 1993. And Microsoft claims rightly to have been in the driver's seat with Windows for Pen [1] being one of the big features of the Compaq... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing
      - sbarre 8y ago
        Hah I still have a Toshiba pen computing Windows machine somewhere from the early/mid-2000s.. They tried for a long time with those things.. I was keeping it to set up a kitchen computer.. I should just recycle it.
  - 8y ago
onyva 8y ago
Only way I’d consider is if it can ran Linux. Last thing in the world needs is a device with zero user control from a unscrupulous company like Microsoft.
- gaius 8y ago
  I bet you own an Android phone tho’
- supernovae 8y ago
  You have lots of control, this isn't WinRT, its windows 10. I use the subsystem for Linux anyway as the Linux tablet experience is subpar but having ubuntu shell is awesome and xming works as an x display great. (i own the Surface pro 4)
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  Users can exert plenty of control over Windows 10.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Why do people do this in Surface threads? No one goes into an iPad thread and says "love the hardware but it needs to run Windows" or into an conversation about video cards and says "the only way I'd buy the 1080GTX is if it was made by AMD instead". So why do people go into a thread about a Microsoft-made and branded tablet and complain that it runs Microsoft's OS? Of course it does. It's a Microsoft product. You might as well complain that it can't be powered by plugging the cable into a jelly doughnut.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    I guess it is related to the overall success of desktop Linux. So instead of giving money to OEMs producing Linux tablets like the now missing Vivaldi tablet, they complain about Microsoft.
  - electrograv 8y ago
    Because iOS and Mac OSX don’t enroll you in 99 types of on-by-default “telemetry”, tracking, and ads built into the OS. Because I can trust iOS and Mac OSX almost as much as Linux to respect my privacy, whereas Windows 10 seems to be aspiring to model its “privacy” (or lack thereof) after Facebook (the opposite direction of what most people want from an OS). I turn all the telemetry and tracking features off when I install Windows 10, and it takes a good 30 minutes to an hour to turn them ALL off. And that’s just the OS — any apps within by Microsoft will all report back what you’re doing constantly, and some won’t let you turn this off at all. If you think just selecting “no thanks” to Cortana on install disables all of Windows 10’s telemetry and tracking features, you’re sadly mistaken thanks to the UI dark patterns. Windows 10 was a huge step backwards for privacy. Fortunately, Microsoft is moving to be fully GDPR compliant companywide, so I think things will get much better soon. But even there, I’m not sure if GDPR covers telemetry the company claims is “anonymous” (it’s not anonymous if it comes from my IP address, as far as I’m concerned). What Windows 10 really needs is a “don’t EVER automatically phone home in the background, unless I am explicitly prompted and approve this in each instance”.
ekianjo 8y ago
10 inches is a little small to pretend to be "as comfortable as a laptop". I think 12 inches is the actual lower end for decent size/comfort.
chiefalchemist 8y ago
> "...we had to ask ourselves what people want and need from a 10” Surface..." Answer: Maybe not a 10" Surface. What I dream of is single computing unit (read: cpu + ram + storage + etc.) with the ability to attach to different UIs. Maybe that's a 5" screen. Maybe that's a 10" screen. Maybe it's voice (and no screen at all). I know Motorola tried (is still trying?) this to some extent, but as strong as they are, they are not MS.
- golergka 8y ago
  So, you're dreaming about a cloud solution then?
  - k__ 8y ago
    But for them to carry around. Effectively they want an universal docking-station for smartphones, I guess.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      Microsoft sort of had this with Continuum. It was great and hardly anyone used it. Previously Motorola had the "lapdock", too.
      - digi_owl 8y ago
        Hardly anyone used it because it was barely available on a single brick of a "phone" from HP, with a price only a corporation would consider. As for the motorola attempt, it needed two plugs (hdmi and USB), and they could never commit to having a single spacing and overall phone shape across generations. End result, each phone needed its own docks until Motorola went "fuck this" and released a lapdock with some massive cables instead of the dock plugs. And the Samsung attempt seems poised to develop the same problem...
- k__ 8y ago
  I think smartphones are the right form-factor for this. You can carry them arround, even do most stuff on the small touch screen. The only problem is their interface. You would need something better than USB or lightning. Something more like PCIe, to get a low latency connection to your other devices (ereader, laptop, desktop, tv, etc.) and the external devices could also offer your the resources that make them unique. I mean a bigger screen or different UI is cool, but the USP of a desktop is also its CPU/GPU that is much faster.
psaipetc 8y ago
Does anyone think the CPU is decent enough for Windows 10?
- llampx 8y ago
  The CPU is much better than the old Atoms other similar tablets are using, but the eMMC storage is a strict no-buy. 128GB SSD or bust.
Numberwang 8y ago
In my experience 10" is too small for a laptop. 13.3-14" is perfect and still quite portable. No one wants a tables, its useless just like the watches. Phones cover those categories.
- slantyyz 8y ago
  >> In my experience 10" is too small for a laptop. 13.3-14" is perfect and still quite portable. These things are so variable from user to user-- speaking for myself only, 13.3-14" is too small for me to use as a daily driver. On the other hand, I also have an original Surface Pro, and the small screen is usable for me when not being used as a daily driver. If Microsoft didn't think there was a market for the Surface Go, I highly doubt that they would have made them.
  - Numberwang 8y ago
    I can understand that. But using market as a usefulness predictor is not really right. How many people haven't thrown away money on an iPad only to use it a dozen or so times?
pastaking 8y ago
This will be a great affordable option for students who want to use a surface to take notes!
digi_owl 8y ago
They really watered down the Pixelsense brand, didn't they?
mlacks 8y ago
I've recently been interested in a tablet like this, but something more pocketable - like 6 inches - and with radio antennas for GSM capability. Why hasn't this been done? Some of the research that I've been doing points to an incompatibility with a processor. Is anyone able to explain this?
- hathym 8y ago
  Xiaomi Mi Max 2 ?
- ctvo 8y ago
  I think this product is called the iPhone 8 Plus (https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/) or the Samsung S9+ (https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s9 https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s9).
- swarnie_ 8y ago
  You're literally describing a smartphone.
  - e12e 8y ago
    More specifically, sounds like the galaxy note. I believe the latest is 8, 9 is on the way.
- mlacks 8y ago
  I'm sorry for omitting this: a "smartphone" running a full version of x86 Windows 10. I understand that x86 processors consume more power than a comparable ARM chip, but I'd be willing to put up with shorter battery life for a full Windows experience I don't need to lug around a bag for.
  - ModernMech 8y ago
    > understand that x86 processors consume more power than a comparable ARM chip More power consumption means more heat to dissipate, means it needs to be larger. Smartphone and x86 are at odds in terms of design. In a world where Apple is doing everything they can to trim off mms, including removing all the ports, I don't know if there's much room for a big fat x86 phone.
saturdaysaint 8y ago
It's curious to me that nobody is daring to encroach on Nintendo's territory - how hard would it be to add really good native controllers to this and have an indie game dream machine? I'm sure the Switch owes much of its success to Nintendo's IP and history, but I believe that any major manufacturer (Apple, Amazon, Google, etc) who dared to just include pretty good controllers on a pretty good tablet would have had a hit. It will be interesting to see if the tablet makers will just defer to Nintendo indefinitely, especially since the market (excluding Nintendo) has cooled dramatically.
- 83457 8y ago
  I think the mobile platforms are doing pretty well for themselves. Nintendo has there own little niche with specialized controls. Not sure there has ever been a successful gaming platform built on a mobile device outside of the touch screen approach already being taken.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  Why include one? Including an Xbox One controller will increase the price $60 for... what? You won't be able to run Xbox games on this device. While lots of PC games do include controller support, this isn't universal, and most of them are third party and aren't great for pack-in. And it dilutes the messaging of this as a portable device. I'm not dissuading you from your tablet gaming dream, but hook up an Xbox One controller to this and you'll get the experience you're proposing.
  - wilsonnb2 8y ago
    I think the person you're responding too was implying a tablet with attached controllers like the Nintendo Switch. Indie games like Stardew Valley and Hollow Knight are incredibly popular on the Switch, so a device from Microsoft that could play the already existing PC versions of those games on-the-go while also providing a real tablet experience could probably take some business away from Nintendo.
    - slantyyz 8y ago
subpixel 8y ago
I don’t know if it’s hubris or ignorance but this announcement proceeds as if customers know and care what a ‘Surface’ is. That’s a false assumption, and results in horrible sales copy.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Not if they can pull it off. Instead of horrible sales copy, you get people thinking to themselves, "it seems I've been missing out, I really should have known what Surface is".
- supernovae 8y ago
  Customers do "care" - the brand has a strong following. Is it the cult of mac? no, but the surface line is a strong brand bringing in billions. What makes people make comments like this though? seems arrogant.
  - subpixel 8y ago
    I have no real idea what a Surface is, other than the fact that it’s a Microsoft product. I have never seen one. Is it like an iPad? I don’t know for sure. Now certainly I can look it up and find out, but my point is that marketing copy should sell customers on the product and it’s features and advantages. This copy says it’s “the best Surface yet” and I’m sure millions of people don’t know what that means.
    - supernovae 8y ago
      "Surface" has been out for 7 years - they spent a billion or two advertising them, they opened up tons of stores to sell direct all over the world not to mention almost every best buy has a microsoft store right next to their apple kiosk. i'm calling bs. You can walk into any coffee shop and see them these days, people are talking about them on twitter and every tech site has had coverage of the many form factors and revisions provided. schools have them, girl scouts have them, moms have them, dads have them and kids have them. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but i have the feeling you're just being selectively dense.
criddell 8y ago
This is pretty neat, but Windows feels like it's in a weird place right now. For gaming, Windows is awesome. But this machine would be terrible for anything other than casual games. For other software, everything interesting and exciting is coming out on iOS, macOS, or Android. Outside of gaming, there doesn't seem to be any excitement or energy behind Windows anymore. When was the last time Twitter was buzzing with talk about some Windows program? Of course, the big market for this is running Office and a browser and that's probably enough to justify the machine. That might be a big niche, it just isn't very interesting.
- whywhywhywhy 8y ago
  > When was the last time Twitter was buzzing with talk about some Windows program? To be fair when was the last time it was buzzing about some iOS or MacOS app that wasn't just an Electron app that was also available on Windows. I remember the times when a Mac/iOS app like Clear or Coda would come out and everyone would be so hyped about it but it seems as far as I can tell those days are long gone. Which is sad as a Mac user but since the app store raced to the bottom it just doesn't seem to be worth the effort for developers to ship 3 highly tuned versions of their software for 3 Apple platforms. I mean you can look yourself, look at the top ten free/paid on the Mac and iOS app stores, it's grim.
  - creyes 8y ago
    Sketch
    - andrewl-hn 8y ago
      Sketch is almost 8 years old, and was released before the AppStore Mania died out and before Electron/CEF became a de-facto app platform for desktops. Windows has other market leading software that isn't on a Mac. 3ds Max comes to mind.
      - criddell 8y ago
        If you are going to say an 8 year old program is tired, then why mention 3ds Max? It has to be 20 years old by now.
dgudkov 8y ago
This can be a decent 10" tablet which is a good thing. Unfortunately, finding a good 10" tablet outside of the Apple product line is not a trivial task. Even expensive 10" Android tablets are full of glitches and bloatware. I wish there was a Google Pixel tablet, but it's not.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  There was a Google Pixel tablet but it was discontinued around 6 months ago. Presumably because it didn't sell well. Honestly, the experience of using Android apps on a tablet is much worse than using iPad apps to me. Too many Android apps just treat the tablet like a huge phone.
  - partiallypro 8y ago
    Android on phones is great, but on a tablet it's awful. I honestly think iOS isn't that great either on tablet. Microsoft feels too desktop like, even in tablet mode. Hopefully one of them figures it out sooner or later.
chx 8y ago
After I saw this I went looking and found the Cube i7 Mix Plus. The i7 of course is just marketing, it doesn't run an i7 but what it does have is a Kaby Lake m3, the m3-7Y30 (thus the i7 -- it runs a _7_th gen _I_ntel CPU, after all). Comparing it to the Surface Go CPU, another low wattage Kaby Lake CPU https://ark.intel.com/compare/122697,95449 https://ark.intel.com/compare/122697,95449 we can see the Pentium 4415Y has a 60% higher base clock but it doesn't have Turbo Boost while the m3 can boost to 2.6GHz. The m3 also has more cache and AVX2. Also, the storage is a proper 128GB m.2 SATA SSD. The reviews say the WACOM digitizer is accurate and fast. The screen is the same as the Surface Pro 2. Reviews and reports say the device is durable enough. (Also, some descriptions say it's dual Android-Windows, it's not, it's just W10) Asking around, the only drawback I was able to find is if you get a dud, you need to send it back to China for repairs which can run 80-100 USD. The price is just 330 USD.
- deno 8y ago
  > the only drawback I was able to find is if you get a dud, you need to send it back to China for repairs which can run 80-100 USD. Depends where you buy. Gearbest will ship and service it for you in EU. No idea about US. No affiliation. I hear Banggood is also fine but no first hand experience. Also I’d rather get this Cube: https://techtablets.com/cube-i35/review/ https://techtablets.com/cube-i35/review/ It has the major advantage of being an actual laptop. It still has a touch screen if you’re into that sort of thing. I really don’t understand the point of a mobile device that you can’t put on your lap or in your pocket. To each their own, I guess.
  - chx 8y ago
    My use case for this is a device to consume media en route but also an emergency work machine (sure phpstorm won't be breaking any speed records on it but still, it will run on it decent enough). A laptop is a hassle on a plane. Tablet works better -- just hang it off the seat in front of you. Detachable keyboard works best for this. Almost always unnecessary but when you need it, it's there.
joemaller1 8y ago
Keyboard sold separately. I wish they'd been more clear about that, almost all the promotional materials show the new Surface with the Type Cover (keyboard) and pen. It feels deceptive. I was more interested when I thought $400 would get me a complete Windows tablet/ultrabook. At $650-700, it's nice but not nearly as compelling.
- Maven911 8y ago
  Aren't surface covers $100 though ? So that would be a $500 (400+100) in total. And some pens are $40 though not everyone needs the pen.
  - beamatronic 8y ago
    Having to research/shop for the additional necessary accessories is transactional friction - if you want mass adoption of something, reduce or eliminate the friction.
    - sgift 8y ago
      I don't see the keyboard as necessary. Just the tablet with the pen looks like a good deal at that size for me.* Others only want the keyboard, not the pen. Having only one variant and "take it or leave it, we know what's good for you" is a strategy. Allowing customizing is too. *If I want a keyboard I have desktop PC with a full-sized keyboard, a big monitor and everything else I need
    - jfim 8y ago
      On the other hand, Microsoft used to bundle the Kinect with Xboxes, which was a point criticized by reviews [0]: > On a more practical note, Kinect represents the $100 difference in price between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 this holiday. It's of course Microsoft's prerogative to go "all-in" on Kinect, but we'd sure prefer to choose at retail. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-review/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-revie...
      - 8y ago
jbigelow76 8y ago
How can anyone release a new form factor tablet in the second half of 2018 that has a bezel wide enough to drive a semi-truck across?
- partiallypro 8y ago
  The bezel is required for the keyboard base to snap to, and for actually using something as a tablet, bezels for the moment are just required. Microsoft is rolling out a new Surface hardware next year that is supposed to be an entirely renewed design, which I suspect will address this. I'm suspecting "smart bezels" (they have a patent as such.)
bitL 8y ago
I am surprised a Core-M-based tablet is now for under $400. Those chips used to be premium due to their low power and high performance.
com2kid 8y ago
Completely off-topic, but I am sad that the release video doesn't have a song by Stephanie Tarling, I've come to look forward to her cover songs in the Surface release videos.
jordache 8y ago
how does windows 10 fare with just 64GB of storage? How much free storage do you have remain after a w10 installation?
- detaro 8y ago
  Just checked my Windows machine: 17 GB Windows folder. I do occasionally clean out caches etc, but also have the Linux Subsystem set up. Applications IMHO are the bigger issue, things like Microsoft Office or games can eat a lot of storage. Hibernation also needs a memory-sized buffer file obviously.
dingo_bat 8y ago
64GB of storage means you cannot upgrade to the full OS version. You would immediately run out of space.
e12e 8y ago
Actual tech specs: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/new-surface-go/8V9DP4LNKNSZ?activetab=pivot%3Atechspecstab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/new-surface-go/8V9DP4LNKNS... Display 10” PixelSense™ Display with 1800 x 1200 (217 PPI) resolution, 3:2 aspect ratio, 10-point multi-touch, and ink Storage 64GB eMMC, 128GB, solid-state drive (SSD) Connections 1 x USB-C, 3.5 mm headphone jack, 1 x Surface Connect port, Surface Type Cover Port, 1 x MicroSDXC Card Reader The do seem dead set on keeping the "surface connect" port for charging. As mentioned by others, type cover sold separately. Of note is also that they mention that the screen is compatible with the surface "dial". No type cover and a relatively lo res screen makes this a bit of a "meh". Still over 200 PPI isn't terrible.
- OkGoDoIt 8y ago
  It’s a 10 inch screen, what kind of resolution do you really need? I’d prefer a lower dpi to save battery life. I just got a new ThinkPad laptop with a 13 inch screen at 1080p, which is perfect. Enough screen resolution to do my work comfortably but no superfluous dpi to kill battery and cause scaling issues.
  - e12e 8y ago
    For text (and drawings, figures) I'd prefer 600 to 1200 dpi - as in print. But realistically today, I'd like to stay close to at least 300 dpi. Scaling issues and glitches really ought to be things we can get around soon enough. Battery/power is likely to remain a trade-off for a while though (although there were some efforts on hybrid eink/lcd screens that could trade refresh for power - for certain use cases). All that said, and somewhat more pragmatic: 1080p on a 13" really isn't near high enough dpi for the nice immediacy of drawing with a proper pen on something like a surface pro. It's one of those cases where a difference in magnitude becomes a difference in kind.
eldavido 8y ago
I have every reason to want this thing to succeed. I used to work at Microsoft, I want more competition in the space, I even develop software for Windows. But good lord is Microsoft hardware just utter trash compared to what Apple is putting out these days. Let's compare: Surface 3 Pro vs. Macbook Air. MBA is 4 years old, SP3 is about 3 years old. (I own both and am speaking 100% from personal experience here) Macbook Air: 6-8 hours of battery life. Surface: 3-4. Macbook air recovery from sleep: flawless. Surface sleep kinda-sorta works. Sometimes I have to push the button 2-3 times. It usually takes at least 5-10 seconds to recover. It's not instant like my Air. Occasionally my surface does silly things, like I'll flip the cover back and the screen shows up inverted. I can shake it, turn it sideways, try to fix it, nothing. This sort of nonsense simply doesn't happen on my Macbook Air. Ever. The keyboard of the surface pro is terrible. It flexes under normal weight and is too light to properly balance the machine. The display on the surface, despite getting less battery life, is less bright, and less glare-resistant. The surface is thicker. It also uses an eMMC hard disk drive that gets shoddy performance compared to the SSD in the (older) Air. About the only thing the surface has going for it is the pen which I use from time to time. This is one of those cases where you can make a "fair" comparison but it really isn't even close. Apple is just playing in an entirely different league than MS. Apple is designing their own CPUs while Microsoft is still trying to figure out how to get wake-from-sleep working. There just isn't any real competition here at all.
- bnolsen 8y ago
  and mac isn't trash? The keyboard is beyond abysmal, the action, breakage and lack of escape. It runs at high temps and spends a lot of time in overheat throttle mode. I have more beefs with but apple laptops special? no way.
- namlem 8y ago
  They fixed most of those issues on later iterations. I have the SP4, and while it still has occasional issues with recovery from sleep, the other issues you listed aren't present.
nappoler 8y ago
I think Surface Mini is better than surface Go

242 points by ductionist 8y ago

The problem is the limited api for windows universal apps. This is a nice price point but I doubt its going to be as capable as the ipad 2018 or chromebooks on low end hardware because windows desktop apps struggle with less than a core i5 behind them.

nailer 8y ago
Can you upgrade Windows S to a regular Windows? I want to see if this can run vscode and powershell.
- SifJar 8y ago
  Windows S is now just a "mode", can easily switch to Windows 10 Home instead
  - i_don_t_know 8y ago
    Can you switch to Windows 10 Professional? (Paid upgrade would be fine.)
    - wklauss 8y ago
      You can. And if I recall correctly it's free for the first year.
      - hsivonen 8y ago
        Ars Technica say $50, but it could mean a preinstall. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/cheap-surface-go-now-official-399-10-inches-pentium-processor/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/cheap-surface-go-now...
kingosticks 8y ago
Since Microsoft are more into Linux these days, might we see a consumer device running something other than Windows, or is that still too wacky? I'd be interested in this if it had vaguely decent support for Ubuntu (or whatever), up to the same standard as Dell's project Sputnik effort. If they truly have shifted their focus to Office/Cloud stuff then surely this starts to become more likely. Or just my wishful thinking.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  You're kidding, right? Professing love for Open Source by releasing a code editor or buying GitHub is one thing, profit margins are another. Why would they voluntarily help in increasing desktop Linux market share? It's literally in the worst interests of the company.
  - jonhendry18 8y ago
    "Why would they voluntarily help in increasing desktop Linux market share?" In hopes of attracting developers to Azure rather than AWS
  - kingosticks 8y ago
    No. The worst interests of MS today would be to build products around competing cloud platforms.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  > Since Microsoft are more into Linux these days, You have bought way too much into the Microsoft PR. Microsoft does not love Linux, they just use it as a cash cow when it's convenient for them (in the server space, for Azure services) but that's the extent of it. Don't expect to see any real Microsoft offering like Office on any Linux distro.
  - kingosticks 8y ago
    No... and I never said they 'love Linux' either! I just know they use it more for enterprise than they previously did and I know they are no longer focused on Windows as they once were. A decent MS Office experience on Linux would be nice for some maybe, but personally I have no interest in that. I am assuming you can use Office 365 in any web browser (i.e Chrome/Firefox on Linux) but I confess I have never tried.
candiodari 8y ago
Thankfully you're not limited to windows universal apps on this thing (you can choose to be so limited for security reasons though). This means ridiculously good gaming on the go, absurdly large software library (runs most software from windows 3.0 onwards) ... I'll be getting one.
wklauss 8y ago
> I doubt its going to be as capable as the ipad 2018 or chromebooks on low end hardware. Forget 2018. This processor is roughly equal to the A8x (think iPads from 2016) and I doubt it will handle normal Windows 10 well on the 4 GB / 64 GB configuration.
pjmlp 8y ago
UWP API space is still more feature rich for desktop applications than iPad or ChromeOS. Besides that have been improving UWP in every Windows release and are incrementally merging both worlds, as shown at a few BUILD 2018 sessions. Next Windows 10 Office will be store only, also demoed at BUILD 2018.
ZuLuuuuuu 8y ago
UWP APIs are pretty capable and rich with features. If you are talking about the app selection in the store, that is another thing. And Windows 10 works pretty well on lower spec machines as well, it was designed to work efficiently even on mobile devices.
WorldMaker 8y ago
UWP apps are not as limited as people seem to think they are. They require a different programming model, but are capable of just about everything you'd want to do with a non-UWP app. Fluent Design is even pushing out a lot of "Enterprise" controls lately to bridge the gap in making sure that apps that want things like Fluent ribbons, traditional menu bars (why?) and dense scrolling datagrids (ugh, sigh, we will never be rid of the business pox of spreadsheets) have official options now (and at least some ability to fit in beside other Fluent Design controls). Beyond that, traditional Win32 applications are allowed in the Store now (have been for some time), so S Mode isn't even limited to UWP anymore. Applications like iTunes are already in the Store, with better, more reliable install/update/uninstall now.

Angostura 8y ago

No SIM from the look of it

SifJar 8y ago
Under "Where do you want to Go?" header: > We’re also happy to share that an LTE model will be arriving later this year.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Thank you for the correction. I shouldn't have searched for SIM :)

cm2187 8y ago

And still no slot for the pen. So you will have to carry a tablet and carry a pen.

manigandham 8y ago
The pen attaches magnetically. And you can use your finger.
- cm2187 8y ago
  In my experience that still gets lost in a bag or knocked off.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    Losing pens and video adapters is definitely a weak point of the original surface design. [I ended up using cable ties to attach a video adapter to the power supply cable - not elegant but it does stop be losing yet another one].
  - loa-in-backup 8y ago
    You can use your pockets - foolproof!

ZuLuuuuuu 8y ago

Does anybody see this as a great front-end development machine? You can install Chrome, Sublime or Visual Studio Code since it is full Windows and I assume it would be able to handle those programs performance-wise with its Pentium processor. You can test mobile touch experience since it has touch screen. It has a nice keyboard with touchpad and you can even connect external display on your home setup if you want. I don't know if the processor can handle it but maybe you can even install PyCharm to the 8gb memory version for some back end programming as well?

cm2187 8y ago
If you need to type a lot, I think you would probably get a better millage with a true keyboard / laptop. I was struggling with the keyboard of the larger Surface Pro. Haven't tried this one but I doubt it is going to be very comfortable. I imagine the use case is rather people who need to use it a lot as a tablet, i.e. to view presentations or emails during meetings or on the go.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  This is absolutely on-point. I used the Type Cover "3" and "4" (current) extensively; while they're impressive feats of engineering and some of the best keyboards for the weight/size/thickness, they're nowhere near a normal laptop keyboard, the attachment angle is wrong, and if you have large hands, outright uncomfortable. I actually try to steer people interested in Microsoft's Surface line towards the Surface Laptop and Surface Book these days, in no small part because of the improved keyboard experience. I'd strongly recommend going to BestBuy/Microsoft Store and trying a Surface Pro with Type Cover for a long period before buying, then try the Surface Laptop/Book.
csomar 8y ago
Don't you need like a big screen if you want to do front-end development? Especially if you are debugging with Chrome and need the editor on the side too.
- jamesgeck0 8y ago

TekMol 8y ago

Does Linux run well on the Surface? If so, it would be an interesting device. 10" is somewhat small though. And I guess the weight of 1.15 pounds is without a keyboard. Any guesses how much a keyboard will add on top of that?

ximeng 8y ago
I wouldn't bet on it personally - I did run linux ok on my old Surface Pro, but found the hardware less than reliable in general and had a couple of driver problems to work around.
godzillabrennus 8y ago
It tends to take a few years before it runs well on any hardware like this. Come back in 2020 and if you still care it’ll probably work well.
ekianjo 8y ago
Check r/surfacelinux, but to answer your question, usually you can Linux well when it's patched to support all the non-standard hardware. If I recall correctly, Surface up to Surface III are well supported so far.
gaius 8y ago
I am using WSL to target Linux from VS2017 and it works like a dream. Twice as fast as VirtualBox (at least) and everything I need right there. Ubuntu and Debian.
- r3bl 8y ago
  WSL =/= running Linux. WSL == a compatibility layer on top of Windows kernel with binaries on top. WSL doesn't contain a single line of code from Linux.
  - jaxn 8y ago
    If you are talking about the Linux kernel, true. If you are talking about "Gnu/Linux" then not.

fredley 8y ago

> We pioneered categories like the 2:1 This is completely meaningless to me, and I'm more clued up than most people on this stuff. Why does Microsoft continue to sell—by the looks of it—pretty decent hardware with terrible marketing copy? > Since my two youngest daughters... This paragraph is completely shoehorned in, and in a different voice (the rest of the article is "We"). It's so clunky it hurts. Come on Microsoft.

mattlondon 8y ago
i think it means "two in one" - i.e. its a laptop, and a tablet, in one. (i.e. its a laptop with a detachable keyboard). Not sure they pioneered it - I had an ancient Android tablet where you could take the keyboard off (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_Pad_Transformer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_Pad_Transformer) that was released in 2011. Pretty sure that wasn't the first either - anyone know of any earlier ones?
- wklauss 8y ago
  Probably the TabletPCs pioneered it. And those were Microsoft, circa 2000 / 2005
  - MagnumOpus 8y ago
    Well, the Compaq Concerto pioneered it in 1993. And Microsoft claims rightly to have been in the driver's seat with Windows for Pen [1] being one of the big features of the Compaq... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing
    - sbarre 8y ago
      Hah I still have a Toshiba pen computing Windows machine somewhere from the early/mid-2000s.. They tried for a long time with those things.. I was keeping it to set up a kitchen computer.. I should just recycle it.
- 8y ago

onyva 8y ago

Only way I’d consider is if it can ran Linux. Last thing in the world needs is a device with zero user control from a unscrupulous company like Microsoft.

gaius 8y ago
I bet you own an Android phone tho’
supernovae 8y ago
You have lots of control, this isn't WinRT, its windows 10. I use the subsystem for Linux anyway as the Linux tablet experience is subpar but having ubuntu shell is awesome and xming works as an x display great. (i own the Surface pro 4)
wilsonnb2 8y ago
Users can exert plenty of control over Windows 10.
freehunter 8y ago
Why do people do this in Surface threads? No one goes into an iPad thread and says "love the hardware but it needs to run Windows" or into an conversation about video cards and says "the only way I'd buy the 1080GTX is if it was made by AMD instead". So why do people go into a thread about a Microsoft-made and branded tablet and complain that it runs Microsoft's OS? Of course it does. It's a Microsoft product. You might as well complain that it can't be powered by plugging the cable into a jelly doughnut.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I guess it is related to the overall success of desktop Linux. So instead of giving money to OEMs producing Linux tablets like the now missing Vivaldi tablet, they complain about Microsoft.
- electrograv 8y ago
  Because iOS and Mac OSX don’t enroll you in 99 types of on-by-default “telemetry”, tracking, and ads built into the OS. Because I can trust iOS and Mac OSX almost as much as Linux to respect my privacy, whereas Windows 10 seems to be aspiring to model its “privacy” (or lack thereof) after Facebook (the opposite direction of what most people want from an OS). I turn all the telemetry and tracking features off when I install Windows 10, and it takes a good 30 minutes to an hour to turn them ALL off. And that’s just the OS — any apps within by Microsoft will all report back what you’re doing constantly, and some won’t let you turn this off at all. If you think just selecting “no thanks” to Cortana on install disables all of Windows 10’s telemetry and tracking features, you’re sadly mistaken thanks to the UI dark patterns. Windows 10 was a huge step backwards for privacy. Fortunately, Microsoft is moving to be fully GDPR compliant companywide, so I think things will get much better soon. But even there, I’m not sure if GDPR covers telemetry the company claims is “anonymous” (it’s not anonymous if it comes from my IP address, as far as I’m concerned). What Windows 10 really needs is a “don’t EVER automatically phone home in the background, unless I am explicitly prompted and approve this in each instance”.

ekianjo 8y ago

10 inches is a little small to pretend to be "as comfortable as a laptop". I think 12 inches is the actual lower end for decent size/comfort.

chiefalchemist 8y ago

> "...we had to ask ourselves what people want and need from a 10” Surface..." Answer: Maybe not a 10" Surface. What I dream of is single computing unit (read: cpu + ram + storage + etc.) with the ability to attach to different UIs. Maybe that's a 5" screen. Maybe that's a 10" screen. Maybe it's voice (and no screen at all). I know Motorola tried (is still trying?) this to some extent, but as strong as they are, they are not MS.

golergka 8y ago
So, you're dreaming about a cloud solution then?
- k__ 8y ago
  But for them to carry around. Effectively they want an universal docking-station for smartphones, I guess.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Microsoft sort of had this with Continuum. It was great and hardly anyone used it. Previously Motorola had the "lapdock", too.
    - digi_owl 8y ago
      Hardly anyone used it because it was barely available on a single brick of a "phone" from HP, with a price only a corporation would consider. As for the motorola attempt, it needed two plugs (hdmi and USB), and they could never commit to having a single spacing and overall phone shape across generations. End result, each phone needed its own docks until Motorola went "fuck this" and released a lapdock with some massive cables instead of the dock plugs. And the Samsung attempt seems poised to develop the same problem...
k__ 8y ago
I think smartphones are the right form-factor for this. You can carry them arround, even do most stuff on the small touch screen. The only problem is their interface. You would need something better than USB or lightning. Something more like PCIe, to get a low latency connection to your other devices (ereader, laptop, desktop, tv, etc.) and the external devices could also offer your the resources that make them unique. I mean a bigger screen or different UI is cool, but the USP of a desktop is also its CPU/GPU that is much faster.

psaipetc 8y ago

Does anyone think the CPU is decent enough for Windows 10?

llampx 8y ago
The CPU is much better than the old Atoms other similar tablets are using, but the eMMC storage is a strict no-buy. 128GB SSD or bust.

Numberwang 8y ago

In my experience 10" is too small for a laptop. 13.3-14" is perfect and still quite portable. No one wants a tables, its useless just like the watches. Phones cover those categories.

slantyyz 8y ago
>> In my experience 10" is too small for a laptop. 13.3-14" is perfect and still quite portable. These things are so variable from user to user-- speaking for myself only, 13.3-14" is too small for me to use as a daily driver. On the other hand, I also have an original Surface Pro, and the small screen is usable for me when not being used as a daily driver. If Microsoft didn't think there was a market for the Surface Go, I highly doubt that they would have made them.
- Numberwang 8y ago
  I can understand that. But using market as a usefulness predictor is not really right. How many people haven't thrown away money on an iPad only to use it a dozen or so times?

pastaking 8y ago

This will be a great affordable option for students who want to use a surface to take notes!

digi_owl 8y ago

They really watered down the Pixelsense brand, didn't they?

mlacks 8y ago

I've recently been interested in a tablet like this, but something more pocketable - like 6 inches - and with radio antennas for GSM capability. Why hasn't this been done? Some of the research that I've been doing points to an incompatibility with a processor. Is anyone able to explain this?

hathym 8y ago
Xiaomi Mi Max 2 ?
ctvo 8y ago
I think this product is called the iPhone 8 Plus (https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/) or the Samsung S9+ (https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s9 https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s9).
swarnie_ 8y ago
You're literally describing a smartphone.
- e12e 8y ago
  More specifically, sounds like the galaxy note. I believe the latest is 8, 9 is on the way.
mlacks 8y ago
I'm sorry for omitting this: a "smartphone" running a full version of x86 Windows 10. I understand that x86 processors consume more power than a comparable ARM chip, but I'd be willing to put up with shorter battery life for a full Windows experience I don't need to lug around a bag for.
- ModernMech 8y ago
  > understand that x86 processors consume more power than a comparable ARM chip More power consumption means more heat to dissipate, means it needs to be larger. Smartphone and x86 are at odds in terms of design. In a world where Apple is doing everything they can to trim off mms, including removing all the ports, I don't know if there's much room for a big fat x86 phone.

saturdaysaint 8y ago

It's curious to me that nobody is daring to encroach on Nintendo's territory - how hard would it be to add really good native controllers to this and have an indie game dream machine? I'm sure the Switch owes much of its success to Nintendo's IP and history, but I believe that any major manufacturer (Apple, Amazon, Google, etc) who dared to just include pretty good controllers on a pretty good tablet would have had a hit. It will be interesting to see if the tablet makers will just defer to Nintendo indefinitely, especially since the market (excluding Nintendo) has cooled dramatically.

83457 8y ago
I think the mobile platforms are doing pretty well for themselves. Nintendo has there own little niche with specialized controls. Not sure there has ever been a successful gaming platform built on a mobile device outside of the touch screen approach already being taken.
freeone3000 8y ago
Why include one? Including an Xbox One controller will increase the price $60 for... what? You won't be able to run Xbox games on this device. While lots of PC games do include controller support, this isn't universal, and most of them are third party and aren't great for pack-in. And it dilutes the messaging of this as a portable device. I'm not dissuading you from your tablet gaming dream, but hook up an Xbox One controller to this and you'll get the experience you're proposing.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  I think the person you're responding too was implying a tablet with attached controllers like the Nintendo Switch. Indie games like Stardew Valley and Hollow Knight are incredibly popular on the Switch, so a device from Microsoft that could play the already existing PC versions of those games on-the-go while also providing a real tablet experience could probably take some business away from Nintendo.
  - slantyyz 8y ago

subpixel 8y ago

I don’t know if it’s hubris or ignorance but this announcement proceeds as if customers know and care what a ‘Surface’ is. That’s a false assumption, and results in horrible sales copy.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Not if they can pull it off. Instead of horrible sales copy, you get people thinking to themselves, "it seems I've been missing out, I really should have known what Surface is".
supernovae 8y ago
Customers do "care" - the brand has a strong following. Is it the cult of mac? no, but the surface line is a strong brand bringing in billions. What makes people make comments like this though? seems arrogant.
- subpixel 8y ago
  I have no real idea what a Surface is, other than the fact that it’s a Microsoft product. I have never seen one. Is it like an iPad? I don’t know for sure. Now certainly I can look it up and find out, but my point is that marketing copy should sell customers on the product and it’s features and advantages. This copy says it’s “the best Surface yet” and I’m sure millions of people don’t know what that means.
  - supernovae 8y ago
    "Surface" has been out for 7 years - they spent a billion or two advertising them, they opened up tons of stores to sell direct all over the world not to mention almost every best buy has a microsoft store right next to their apple kiosk. i'm calling bs. You can walk into any coffee shop and see them these days, people are talking about them on twitter and every tech site has had coverage of the many form factors and revisions provided. schools have them, girl scouts have them, moms have them, dads have them and kids have them. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but i have the feeling you're just being selectively dense.

criddell 8y ago

This is pretty neat, but Windows feels like it's in a weird place right now. For gaming, Windows is awesome. But this machine would be terrible for anything other than casual games. For other software, everything interesting and exciting is coming out on iOS, macOS, or Android. Outside of gaming, there doesn't seem to be any excitement or energy behind Windows anymore. When was the last time Twitter was buzzing with talk about some Windows program? Of course, the big market for this is running Office and a browser and that's probably enough to justify the machine. That might be a big niche, it just isn't very interesting.

whywhywhywhy 8y ago
> When was the last time Twitter was buzzing with talk about some Windows program? To be fair when was the last time it was buzzing about some iOS or MacOS app that wasn't just an Electron app that was also available on Windows. I remember the times when a Mac/iOS app like Clear or Coda would come out and everyone would be so hyped about it but it seems as far as I can tell those days are long gone. Which is sad as a Mac user but since the app store raced to the bottom it just doesn't seem to be worth the effort for developers to ship 3 highly tuned versions of their software for 3 Apple platforms. I mean you can look yourself, look at the top ten free/paid on the Mac and iOS app stores, it's grim.
- creyes 8y ago
  Sketch
  - andrewl-hn 8y ago
    Sketch is almost 8 years old, and was released before the AppStore Mania died out and before Electron/CEF became a de-facto app platform for desktops. Windows has other market leading software that isn't on a Mac. 3ds Max comes to mind.
    - criddell 8y ago
      If you are going to say an 8 year old program is tired, then why mention 3ds Max? It has to be 20 years old by now.

dgudkov 8y ago

This can be a decent 10" tablet which is a good thing. Unfortunately, finding a good 10" tablet outside of the Apple product line is not a trivial task. Even expensive 10" Android tablets are full of glitches and bloatware. I wish there was a Google Pixel tablet, but it's not.

wilsonnb2 8y ago
There was a Google Pixel tablet but it was discontinued around 6 months ago. Presumably because it didn't sell well. Honestly, the experience of using Android apps on a tablet is much worse than using iPad apps to me. Too many Android apps just treat the tablet like a huge phone.
- partiallypro 8y ago
  Android on phones is great, but on a tablet it's awful. I honestly think iOS isn't that great either on tablet. Microsoft feels too desktop like, even in tablet mode. Hopefully one of them figures it out sooner or later.

chx 8y ago

After I saw this I went looking and found the Cube i7 Mix Plus. The i7 of course is just marketing, it doesn't run an i7 but what it does have is a Kaby Lake m3, the m3-7Y30 (thus the i7 -- it runs a _7_th gen _I_ntel CPU, after all). Comparing it to the Surface Go CPU, another low wattage Kaby Lake CPU https://ark.intel.com/compare/122697,95449 https://ark.intel.com/compare/122697,95449 we can see the Pentium 4415Y has a 60% higher base clock but it doesn't have Turbo Boost while the m3 can boost to 2.6GHz. The m3 also has more cache and AVX2. Also, the storage is a proper 128GB m.2 SATA SSD. The reviews say the WACOM digitizer is accurate and fast. The screen is the same as the Surface Pro 2. Reviews and reports say the device is durable enough. (Also, some descriptions say it's dual Android-Windows, it's not, it's just W10) Asking around, the only drawback I was able to find is if you get a dud, you need to send it back to China for repairs which can run 80-100 USD. The price is just 330 USD.

deno 8y ago
> the only drawback I was able to find is if you get a dud, you need to send it back to China for repairs which can run 80-100 USD. Depends where you buy. Gearbest will ship and service it for you in EU. No idea about US. No affiliation. I hear Banggood is also fine but no first hand experience. Also I’d rather get this Cube: https://techtablets.com/cube-i35/review/ https://techtablets.com/cube-i35/review/ It has the major advantage of being an actual laptop. It still has a touch screen if you’re into that sort of thing. I really don’t understand the point of a mobile device that you can’t put on your lap or in your pocket. To each their own, I guess.
- chx 8y ago
  My use case for this is a device to consume media en route but also an emergency work machine (sure phpstorm won't be breaking any speed records on it but still, it will run on it decent enough). A laptop is a hassle on a plane. Tablet works better -- just hang it off the seat in front of you. Detachable keyboard works best for this. Almost always unnecessary but when you need it, it's there.

joemaller1 8y ago

Keyboard sold separately. I wish they'd been more clear about that, almost all the promotional materials show the new Surface with the Type Cover (keyboard) and pen. It feels deceptive. I was more interested when I thought $400 would get me a complete Windows tablet/ultrabook. At $650-700, it's nice but not nearly as compelling.

Maven911 8y ago
Aren't surface covers $100 though ? So that would be a $500 (400+100) in total. And some pens are $40 though not everyone needs the pen.
- beamatronic 8y ago
  Having to research/shop for the additional necessary accessories is transactional friction - if you want mass adoption of something, reduce or eliminate the friction.
  - sgift 8y ago
    I don't see the keyboard as necessary. Just the tablet with the pen looks like a good deal at that size for me.* Others only want the keyboard, not the pen. Having only one variant and "take it or leave it, we know what's good for you" is a strategy. Allowing customizing is too. *If I want a keyboard I have desktop PC with a full-sized keyboard, a big monitor and everything else I need
  - jfim 8y ago
    On the other hand, Microsoft used to bundle the Kinect with Xboxes, which was a point criticized by reviews [0]: > On a more practical note, Kinect represents the $100 difference in price between Xbox One and PlayStation 4 this holiday. It's of course Microsoft's prerogative to go "all-in" on Kinect, but we'd sure prefer to choose at retail. [0] https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-review/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/20/microsoft-xbox-one-revie...
    - 8y ago

jbigelow76 8y ago

How can anyone release a new form factor tablet in the second half of 2018 that has a bezel wide enough to drive a semi-truck across?

partiallypro 8y ago
The bezel is required for the keyboard base to snap to, and for actually using something as a tablet, bezels for the moment are just required. Microsoft is rolling out a new Surface hardware next year that is supposed to be an entirely renewed design, which I suspect will address this. I'm suspecting "smart bezels" (they have a patent as such.)

bitL 8y ago

I am surprised a Core-M-based tablet is now for under $400. Those chips used to be premium due to their low power and high performance.

com2kid 8y ago

Completely off-topic, but I am sad that the release video doesn't have a song by Stephanie Tarling, I've come to look forward to her cover songs in the Surface release videos.

jordache 8y ago

how does windows 10 fare with just 64GB of storage? How much free storage do you have remain after a w10 installation?

detaro 8y ago
Just checked my Windows machine: 17 GB Windows folder. I do occasionally clean out caches etc, but also have the Linux Subsystem set up. Applications IMHO are the bigger issue, things like Microsoft Office or games can eat a lot of storage. Hibernation also needs a memory-sized buffer file obviously.

dingo_bat 8y ago

64GB of storage means you cannot upgrade to the full OS version. You would immediately run out of space.

e12e 8y ago

Actual tech specs: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/new-surface-go/8V9DP4LNKNSZ?activetab=pivot%3Atechspecstab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/new-surface-go/8V9DP4LNKNS... Display 10” PixelSense™ Display with 1800 x 1200 (217 PPI) resolution, 3:2 aspect ratio, 10-point multi-touch, and ink Storage 64GB eMMC, 128GB, solid-state drive (SSD) Connections 1 x USB-C, 3.5 mm headphone jack, 1 x Surface Connect port, Surface Type Cover Port, 1 x MicroSDXC Card Reader The do seem dead set on keeping the "surface connect" port for charging. As mentioned by others, type cover sold separately. Of note is also that they mention that the screen is compatible with the surface "dial". No type cover and a relatively lo res screen makes this a bit of a "meh". Still over 200 PPI isn't terrible.

OkGoDoIt 8y ago
It’s a 10 inch screen, what kind of resolution do you really need? I’d prefer a lower dpi to save battery life. I just got a new ThinkPad laptop with a 13 inch screen at 1080p, which is perfect. Enough screen resolution to do my work comfortably but no superfluous dpi to kill battery and cause scaling issues.
- e12e 8y ago
  For text (and drawings, figures) I'd prefer 600 to 1200 dpi - as in print. But realistically today, I'd like to stay close to at least 300 dpi. Scaling issues and glitches really ought to be things we can get around soon enough. Battery/power is likely to remain a trade-off for a while though (although there were some efforts on hybrid eink/lcd screens that could trade refresh for power - for certain use cases). All that said, and somewhat more pragmatic: 1080p on a 13" really isn't near high enough dpi for the nice immediacy of drawing with a proper pen on something like a surface pro. It's one of those cases where a difference in magnitude becomes a difference in kind.

eldavido 8y ago

I have every reason to want this thing to succeed. I used to work at Microsoft, I want more competition in the space, I even develop software for Windows. But good lord is Microsoft hardware just utter trash compared to what Apple is putting out these days. Let's compare: Surface 3 Pro vs. Macbook Air. MBA is 4 years old, SP3 is about 3 years old. (I own both and am speaking 100% from personal experience here) Macbook Air: 6-8 hours of battery life. Surface: 3-4. Macbook air recovery from sleep: flawless. Surface sleep kinda-sorta works. Sometimes I have to push the button 2-3 times. It usually takes at least 5-10 seconds to recover. It's not instant like my Air. Occasionally my surface does silly things, like I'll flip the cover back and the screen shows up inverted. I can shake it, turn it sideways, try to fix it, nothing. This sort of nonsense simply doesn't happen on my Macbook Air. Ever. The keyboard of the surface pro is terrible. It flexes under normal weight and is too light to properly balance the machine. The display on the surface, despite getting less battery life, is less bright, and less glare-resistant. The surface is thicker. It also uses an eMMC hard disk drive that gets shoddy performance compared to the SSD in the (older) Air. About the only thing the surface has going for it is the pen which I use from time to time. This is one of those cases where you can make a "fair" comparison but it really isn't even close. Apple is just playing in an entirely different league than MS. Apple is designing their own CPUs while Microsoft is still trying to figure out how to get wake-from-sleep working. There just isn't any real competition here at all.

bnolsen 8y ago
and mac isn't trash? The keyboard is beyond abysmal, the action, breakage and lack of escape. It runs at high temps and spends a lot of time in overheat throttle mode. I have more beefs with but apple laptops special? no way.
namlem 8y ago
They fixed most of those issues on later iterations. I have the SP4, and while it still has occasional issues with recovery from sleep, the other issues you listed aren't present.

nappoler 8y ago

I think Surface Mini is better than surface Go