16 ms·

Apple’s Shortcuts will flip the switch on Siri’s potential

239 points by evo_9 8y ago

sirn 8y ago
To demonstrate what Shortcuts will be able to do, here's someone writing a C parser in Workflow (a predecessor to Shortcuts): https://twitter.com/uroboro845/status/985169126871224321 https://twitter.com/uroboro845/status/985169126871224321 (One of the replies is by Ari Weinstein, who is currently on the Siri Shortcuts team)
walterbell 8y ago
> This user-centric approach paired with the technical aspects of how Shortcuts works gives Apple’s assistant a leg up for any consumers who find privacy important. Essentially, Apple devices are only listening for “Hey Siri”, then the available Siri domains + your own custom trigger phrases. Without exposing your information to the world or teaching a robot to understand everything, Apple gave Siri a slew of capabilities that in many ways can’t be matched. Is there a good doc or video that delineates what data stays on the device vs. being sent to Apple for processing? E.g. how much of this functionality will be available if you are not signed into iCloud?
- mark212 8y ago
  from the keynote, no information is sent to Apple for processing. Whether it'll work if you're not signed into iCloud is a different issue but from the way it's described in various places in the WWDC Keynote, it ought to work just fine without any data connection, like airplane mode and no Wifi.
  - rueynshard 8y ago
    Wouldn't the user's speech data need to be sent to Apple to convert to text, or identify the intent first?
    - peckrob 8y ago
      We were doing speech recognition 20 years ago without any kind of networking. I dictated part of a term paper in 1995. Dragon Dictate I think is what it was called. You could even navigate the word processor menus and UI with it, or say things like “make that bold” and it usually worked! Just a bit less often often than Siri works actually. Sure it was more of a novelty, and had to be trained on your voice. But that was 20 years ago.
      - walterbell 8y ago
        Not only is Dragon still a product, it is owned by Nuance, which helped to develop Siri and drew on SRI research, https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerkay/2014/03/24/behind-apples-siri-lies-nuances-speech-recognition/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerkay/2014/03/24/behind-appl...
        Angostura 8y ago
        Hence Siri’s name.
      - MiddleEndian 8y ago
        Even Apple had this working a long long time ago in classic mac os. I used to launch all my applications via voice til I got bored of it.
        Razengan 8y ago
        macOS still has non-Siri voice-control under Accessibility Preferences.
        Angostura 8y ago
        And iOS has very good non-Siri dictation
        saagarjha 8y ago
- threeseed 8y ago
  This describes everything: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
- marmshallow 8y ago
  Is this a change for all Siri functionality? It currently requires internet on my iPhone.
ehsankia 8y ago
It's great to see Apple finally add some powerful customization, and for power users this is fantastic, but to average users this makes no difference. When it comes to normal queries, Siri is still far behind. Sure, with some extra work I can get almost any query to work, but most users don't want to manually code up all their queries.
- jsjohnst 8y ago
  None of the digital assistants (I have most of them) do anything truly useful out of the box for me, so the “needing to do work to customize” isn’t an issue for me. I’m actually happy I finally can with Siri, bit late, but better than never.
- adam 8y ago
  Perhaps it's already there, but I wonder if shortcuts will be able to be shared or there will be a library for them. So someone can pre-define all sorts of stuff, then I as a "basic" user can just add the shortcut vs. having to "program" it myself.
  - hug 8y ago
    Workflow (the mother of Siri Shortcuts, as I understand it) already has sharing functionality. For example, this "get travel time to input destination" Workflow: https://workflow.is/workflows/ff987bcf0ad746d496415d7f4c75a872 https://workflow.is/workflows/ff987bcf0ad746d496415d7f4c75a8...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Shortcuts has this as well.
- threeseed 8y ago
  > but to average users this makes no difference Ordinary users will just pick prepackaged workflows out of the gallery. And some I can imagine being very popular e.g. "Post last photo to Instagram".
shiburizu 8y ago
Saw someone else comment on a different TechCrunch article here on HN about how these articles about Apple read like press releases. I really feel that now.
- ndynan 8y ago
  As a PM, this article is what I would write as sample press coverage I'd like for a product release. Interesting to see that the author is a former PR member of http://my.workflow.is/ http://my.workflow.is/ + has one recent article for TechCrunch. Oh hey looks they were purchased by Apple: https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/22/apple-has-acquired-workflow-a-powerful-automation-tool-for-ipad-and-iphone/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/22/apple-has-acquired-workflo... Quick Edit: I'm not saying that this isn't good technology, rather I'm more concerned that TechCrunch is taking contributors who have ties to products being reported on and may have interests that are not being communicated to readers.
  - ianlevesque 8y ago
    Yeah, this is native advertising and it's Everywhere.
    - ibeckermayer 8y ago
      "Native advertising" sounds very much like the MBA-term for what I would call "deception". (I'm not accusing you of anything, just making commentary)
  - codezero 8y ago
    TechCrunch does this all the time, most of the "news" blogs do – I worked at a company that employed a PR firm that basically put our product release collateral directly onto a bunch of those blogs – it made me very uncomfortable.
  - dwaite 8y ago
    Workflow is the technology which is becoming the Siri Shortcuts editor.
dwaite 8y ago
Two of the issues with Siri is that Apple does not like to roll out features unless they work for everyone (across all languages), and discoverability of what it can do against disappointment in what it can't (really, you think defaulting to a Bing search is the best thing to do in this case?) Siri Shortcuts lets you define your own local command and control phrases from presented actions, effectively solving both issues. It could (depending on per user investment) make Siri way more individually useful.
ronnier 8y ago
iOS 12 beta is amazing. It is extremely fast and feels like perfection. Hopefully apple will open the OS a little more for customization and apps to do more powerful things then it will truly be perfection.
- Kpourdeilami 8y ago
  How does it hold up for day to day use? Is it stable enough that could be installed on your main phone without many issues?
  - Razengan 8y ago
    I have installed it on my one and only iPhone (X) since it was made available. No issues so far except a couple random resprings (soft restarts.) I can’t decide how much of an improvement it is over iOS 11 though (which was already performing good enough for me.) I think this year’s big winner is macOS, not iOS.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    I've had my lock screen flip out a couple times, once requiring a manual reboot of my phone. The notifications list has graphical glitches. Some third-party apps are suspiciously crashy. It's probably the least problematic early iOS beta I've used, but like any beta I still wouldn't rely on it if missing a call would be a deal-breaker.
  - graeme 8y ago
    Fairly stable for me. Occasional freezes, sometimes requiring a reset. Definitely feels faster, even on an iphone 8.
tzahola 8y ago
Sounds like Automator for dummies.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  A dumbed-down Automator, maybe. Please don’t insult the users of Workflow.
  - tzahola 8y ago
    I'm not insulting anyone. "X for dummies" is a book series.
    - mlang23 8y ago
      Which doesn't make it any less insulting.
mirceal 8y ago
I personally turn off all notifications on my iPhone (except for a few select apps) and do not use Siri. I can tell you that the Siri suggestions in Search really annoyed me (usually use search to find... apps, not to be fed all the crap from random apps). I want a clean, non-intrusive experience. Apple should focus making the hardware better and to get the software out of the way (don’t make me think about it) instead of pulling all this crap on its users in the name of innovations.
- mark212 8y ago
  a big part of the improved Siri integrations is helping group the notifications and give you the option to shut them off. So it really is trying to get the software out of the way if you want
- jknz 8y ago
  > I can tell you that the Siri suggestions in Search really annoyed me (usually use search to find... apps, not to be fed all the crap from random apps). In iOS 11 the delay for searhing for apps is unacceptable. instead of displaying the apps found right away (substring match over all apps should be instantaneous), it waits until all the crap from Siri and other random apps is fetched.
  - matt-attack 8y ago
    Agreed. The only way I find & launch apps (besides the 4 on the dock) is by swipe-down from the middle of the homescreen, to reveal search, then to search for the app's name. This is very analogous to how I launch apps in OSX, namely command-SPACE, then start typing the application name. It's extremely frustrating when iOS takes forever to find an app, or worse proioritizes all kinds of other garbage before the app's icon. If I type "waz" and I have the Waze app installed, I sure as hell expect to see the Waze icon instantly at the very top. Ideally, after typing just the "W".
    - hug 8y ago
      You'll be pleased to know that the results in iOS 12 instantly reveal the first four-matching installed apps. (Instantly meaning "I can't really determine how long it takes, because it's probably somewhere under 100ms") All of the other stuff loads very quickly. Mail results are very very quick (over 3 inboxes containing over 100,000 mail items), and then a-bit-less-quick for the Siri search suggestions. I'm actually shocked at how much iOS 12 improved responsiveness.
mark212 8y ago
This is a great example of how owning the entire stack from CPU on up to user interface allows a company to do things that others just can't. Whether it's any good or not, well, time will tell. But it's not even possible for any other company (maybe Google with the Pixel, maybe).
- rueynshard 8y ago
  I don't see why this could not be possible on Android. All Google needs to do is build an API for Assistant that other apps can use to 'donate' frequently used actions/intents. Assistant can then make suggestions to users based on its own analysis of users' activities in the same way Siri does.
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    Apple could feasibly go further and do integration with macOS Siri as well down the line I'd imagine - Google can't do that nearly as deeply.
    - garyrob 8y ago
      Especially since the next macOS release will run iOS apps. That may be the approach Apple is planning to bring this to the Mac.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        The next version of macOS won’t run iOS apps. Apple is working on unifying some of their frameworks to work across platforms.
        garyrob 8y ago
        OK, thanks for that clarification. That does make more sense.
    - izacus 8y ago
      Why? Can you explain that reasoning? Google already shipped full integration of Assistant into their ChromeOS.
jordansmithnz 8y ago
I’m the developer of a popular timetable/schedule app for college. It seems like the perfect use case for Siri: “What class do I have next?”. Up until now it hasn’t been possible due to the restrictive API. I’ve looked into the new shortcuts and Siri API docs and although the beta documentation is sparse, I’m confident I’ll be able to develop a natural, first class Siri integration. Unfortunately, it won’t be trivial to implement (at least to do well). It probably won’t be done before the iOS 12 release, and I’m hesitant to start working it just yet due to the sparse beta docs. Over the next year or two, I think there will be some great Siri integrations built. Hopefully, users discover and use them :)
- Operyl 8y ago
  I think we’ll see more useful docs before release, they usually release more and more up until the iPhone launch events.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    They're already up, though a bit sparse: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit/
- aeleos 8y ago
  Do you mind sharing what the app is called?
  - Operyl 8y ago
    He created Class Timetable. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/class-timetable/id425121147?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/class-timetable/id425121147?...
    - aeleos 8y ago
      Thanks
- berti 8y ago
threeseed 8y ago
I also think this is going to revolutionise the TouchBar. The ability to have contextual shortcuts could be pretty powerful.
- MBCook 8y ago
  I think this is iOS only for now, but it seems like a very obvious thing to port to the Mac.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    It’s already there in the form of Automator and AppleScript.
    - MBCook 8y ago
      That’s a different way of automating things. Automater seems to have been ignored, and AppleScript is quite old and people have been worried about for years.
madrox 8y ago
This is great for developers, but pointless for users. It doesn't change the user behavior, and the research shows people are using VA at home and nowhere else...a place better suited to Google Home and Echo. There've been a lot of attempts by Apple to create richer hooks into apps like search integration, but they don't do much for engagement. There's some good ideas out there, along with anecdotal successes, but the interaction model isn't great and better app integration won't fix that.
- MBCook 8y ago
  I use Siri on my phone all the time. Do you have a link to that research? I haven’t heard that before. Given that iOS will be prompting people with possible Shortcuts based on what they do frequently I can easily see people starting to adopt this. I don’t think you have to use Siri to trigger these, it’s just an obvious easy/fast way. Users could still use the shortcut app or widget to do it. As I’ve been watching some of the Apple community on Twitter since this started to go into beta they’ve already produced some fun/surprising stuff. This seems like it’s going to be a BIG deal.
  - madrox 8y ago
    This is the best I can do right now. It isn't where I originally read it but google is failing me. https://creativestrategies.com/voice-assistant-anyone-yes-please-but-not-in-public/ https://creativestrategies.com/voice-assistant-anyone-yes-pl... What it comes to is the people on HN don't represent most people using iPhones.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Good news for HomePod and CarPlay users, and I suspect that the ability to have a short phrase, trigger a sequence of complex actions will make Siriuse out and about more common.
- scarface74 8y ago
  With more laws being passed about using your phone while driving and seeing that most cars have Bluetooth integration, it should become more popular. I use Siri all of the time while driving.
adityapurwa 8y ago
So basically they exposed an API to add to Siri a new skills. I wonder whether other platform already did simillar things? CMIIW, Cortana already exposed an API for us right?
- MBCook 8y ago
  Really they’ve combined two things. They took an app called workflow, which they bought, would you can use to automate things on iOS. They extended it dramatically, and then added the magic ingredient of making it possible to have Siri call those actions that you define. Plus some AI stuff to suggest shortcuts for things you do frequently. Alexa is quite popular because it has so many skills the people have created for it. That’s one of the reasons people claim Siri has been “behind“ and Amazon’s Echo devices have been doing so well. I don’t know if Cortana or Bixby support anything like this.
  - halflings 8y ago
    Android has the same features: https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/google-launches-slices/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/google-launches-slices/
ggg9990 8y ago
Why is the first screenshot some dumbfuck game nagging me to play again?
- jsperx 8y ago
  It’s to highlight the “Keep”/“Manage” UI that iOS 12 will have to silence apps that abuse notifications.
halflings 8y ago
> Also, Shortcuts don’t require the web to work – the voice triggers might not work, but the suggestions and Shortcuts app give you a place to use your assistant voicelessly. And importantly, Shortcuts can use the full power of the web when they need to. > This user-centric approach paired with the technical aspects of how Shortcuts works gives Apple’s assistant a leg up for any consumers who find privacy important. Essentially, Apple devices are only listening for “Hey Siri”, then the available Siri domains + your own custom trigger phrases. I don't get it. How is this different from Android? Android Actions [0] were announced before this. I think Assistant also works offline (with most voice commands + in voiceless mode). [0] https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/
- hug 8y ago
  SiriKit and Siri Shortcuts are very different things. SiriKit allows you to build Siri support into your app a la Android Actions, but Siri Shortcuts is designed to allow drag-and-drop end-user "programming" of workflows that can be triggered by Siri. "Hey Siri, I'm on my way home" could turn on you thermostat up, order you a pizza, remotely trigger your IoT enabled kettle and start playing your home-commute playlist. For the more advanced of us, Workflow currently allows doing things like calling arbitrary REST APIs and parsing JSON. I've reverse engineered the API of a local coffee-ordering app so I can one-click order my morning coffee. Next thing I'm planning is my "I need a coffee" button which will get the nearest cafe, order me a flat white, and pull up the directions.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Yeah, Siri Shortcuts seems more like using Tasker with the AutoVoice plugin.
  - sharcerer 8y ago
    Siri Shortcuts is same as Google Assistant routines. Only they didn't make an extra app for it. Say" I'm Home" and a lo of Assistant Actions will get triggered.
myrandomcomment 8y ago
I switched to car play and use Siri a lot more then I used to. For most things it is fine. Others... this could help. One thing I would like to know is why Siri cannot answer basic questions about what music is on my phone. For example, “what albums by New Order do I have on my iPhone?”. That does not work but “play album Substance 1987 by New Order” does.
- robin_reala 8y ago
  Siri on CarPlay is useless for me. Maybe it’s my situation (RP British English, driving in Sweden) but it usually takes 10 attempts to get it to recognise a track I want to be played, and getting routing information is easily double that for anything other than ‘drive home’. I one tried to get it to route me to ‘Malmö’ (third largest city in Sweden) and gave up after 30 attempts. I honestly have no idea what I’m doing wrong, but I suspect nothing and it’s just useless software.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    As another RP speaker using CarPlay, it works well. However you do have to heavily anglicise placenames when abroad. So I just tried ‘ get directions to Mal-moe’ and it worked first time.
    - hug 8y ago
      As someone who speaks in a strong Cultivated Australian accent, I fear Siri will never get me.
      - jacobush 8y ago
        Ubicomps colonial impulse at work. Siri may not adapt to speakers, but speakers will adapt to her. https://www.academia.edu/14861357/Ubicomps_colonial_impulse https://www.academia.edu/14861357/Ubicomps_colonial_impulse
  - thirdsun 8y ago
    I'm not sure if this has changed yet, but until recently Siri regularly failed to recognize artists, albums or titles, which often happen to be english, if the device/siri was set to a different language. In my case that's german and I can't count the number of times I had to pronounce the artists I wanted Siri to play in a ridiculously german way. English is so ubiquitous that, in my opinion, all Siri queries should be checked for both local language and english.
GeekyBear 8y ago
Think of Shortcuts as a visual scripting language that leverages app functionality and ties into Siri. Either you can use drag and drop to write your own scripts, or you can run scripts written by others. You can run your scripts in a variety of ways, including a trigger phrase you set with Siri. Here's a short video showing the creation of a very simple script in an older version of the program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK0sBtF5_1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK0sBtF5_1E If you are a podcaster, you might create a more complicated script that converts a source audio file to MP3, adds MP3 tags and artwork to the resulting file and then uses FTP to upload the result to your podcasting network. Another script idea would be to text someone a list of the blocks of free time you have open during a given workday based on your calendar data to help set up a meeting. The possibilities are wide open. You can even tie directly into web API's.
LTL_FTC 8y ago
"hey Siri, destroy all evidence!" phone begins wipe
- saagarjha 8y ago
  I’m sure you’re trying to be humorous, but just in case you’re not, this isn’t something that Shortcuts lets you do.
romangibson 8y ago
So, is it ready to do the complex task just like google and amazon echo?
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Does Google finally allows user to configure top-level actions, instead of the silly "Ok Google, ask $someapp to do something" (where what I want is simply "Ok Google, do something")?
  - singularity2001 8y ago
    Or even better just "$act" when I'm alone in the room! The "Ok Alexa ask $someapp to …" prefix is disgusting.
arthurofbabylon 8y ago
I agree with this idea for one reason in particular: as a user, truly leveraging Siri requires a manual engagement - the experience is not conversational, it is not like speaking with a person. It is like using a tool - one needs to conscientiously adjust oneself to follow its rules and get it to work as desired. Users actively taking control over how they use Siri (as in iOS 12 Siri shortcuts) will almost certainly encourage them to more conscientiously adjust their usage behavior patterns. There exists a general assumption that a voice has a human-intelligence behind it, but obviously now not all voices do. This poses a tough learning curve, as evinced by criticism of Siri as ineffective or plain bad. Yeah, Siri won’t respond the same way your boyfriend will when you ask him to find some good Chinese food, or express some feeling. But Siri will excell at setting alarms, or adding an event to the calendar, or starting a meditation with Timeless. It comes down to matching the language to the tool / following a protocol. It comes down to manually engaging with precision.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > Siri won’t respond the same way your boyfriend will when you ask him to find some good Chinese food, or express some feeling I think Siri did pretty well when I asked her these: Q: Find me some good Chinese food Siri: I found four Chinese restaurants a little ways from you: Q: How are you? Siri: Very well, thank you!
  - singularity2001 8y ago
    That's about the only things Siri can handle without completely blowing it.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Yeah, which is why I was surprised to see that the parent comment chose those as examples…
    - scarface74 8y ago
      I use Siri the most when I’m driving. It comes in handy for a lot of things then... Directions. - Take me to X. Reading text messages - “Read my text messages from my wife” or “Read my last text message” Reminders - “Remind me to call my X/do X when I get in the car/get out the car/get home/at Y” Music/Podcasts - Play X/Play a song by Y. Taking notes, calendar events, (What do I have to do today?)
Shank 8y ago
To me, the biggest thing here is that it takes a completely different approach than what has been the traditional path for voice assistants. In the past, it was always the game of waiting either for a custom skill or app, or it was hoping that Google or Amazon would program in some logic for handling a particular case. Shortcuts enables basically any end user with enough devotion and dedication to short circuit this. It doesn’t require them to be an app developer and it doesn’t require them to learn code at all. The most basic shortcuts can be created without any if-then-else logic while enabling so much. I’ve seen my mom ask her Google Assistant to do things with “and” a lot and they just don’t work because command chaining hasn’t been implemented. But with Shorcuts, she could conceivably make a chain and designate a phrase to be conversationally equivalent with an “and” in the middle. Instead of having to explain to family why Siri can’t do X or Y, I can just make a Shortcut or show them how, and I’ve solved the problem rather than explaining why it can’t be done.
- refulgentis 8y ago
  Google has command chaining, as well as Routines - i.e. Shortcuts, but with intuitive UI. Apple is moving Automator to iOS, this isnt voice UI, its imprecise programming: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhbmQJBX4AMEoho.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhbmQJBX4AMEoho.jpg:large
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    The "voice UI" part isn't shown on that screen: you can assign a phrase to use to trigger these Shortcuts.
  - Shank 8y ago
    You can call Workflow/Shorcuts imprecise programming, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Routines don't let you arbitrarily group data and interact with it in a way that's friendly to non-programmers.
- entropie 8y ago
  > I’ve seen my mom ask her Google Assistant to do things with “and” a lot and they just don’t work because command chaining hasn’t been implemented it is implemented. It just doesnt work often (or at all) for foreign languages. I'am pretty sure this is the next big thing google is updating > Instead of having to explain to family why Siri can’t do X or Y, I can just make a Shortcut or show them how, and I’ve solved the problem rather than explaining why it can’t be done. At least with GA and ifttt you can as of late make your own phrases (and responders). Nothing for the nontechies, but some progress there.
mgiannopoulos 8y ago
That’s all good but I hope that Siri can be improved to understand voices like mine (a native Greek so my English accent is not perfect). Siri understands 40-50% of what I say. Google (on iOS, so same hardware) is more like 80-90%.
- bitwize 8y ago
  Google's voice recognition is nuts. One time I fired up Google's voice search and fed it some of the MST3K names for Dave Ryder from Space Mutiny (e.g., "Punch Rockgroin", "Blast Hardcheese", "Splint Chesthair", "Big McLargehuge", etc.) and was surprised at how many of the searches it got right -- capitalization, spacing, and all.
mlang23 8y ago
Siri? The worst voice "assistant" of all? On HN? Come on, dont buy the hype. Apple is zombie dead, its obvious, but they dont realize it themselves. With such a valium boss, things had to go downhill. With every release, VoiceOver, their assistive technology thing for the blind, has steadily decreased in quality and usefulness. And dont even get me started on Siri. In the five years after Siri was launched first, it didn't improve at all. Actually, at least for me, quality of recognition went down over the years. I used to use its "call ..." feature, but stopped, because in 50% of the cases, it doesnt recognize the name. And in some cases, it even calls a random person from my phone book. Thanks, I dont even want to be able to customize this piece of sh..
amelius 8y ago
Does anyone know of an extensive list of useful things that people typically ask their voice assistant? As a non-user, and as someone who types faster than they speak, I find it hard to come up with compelling use-cases.
- fouc 8y ago
  Haven't looked for a list, that'd be a good idea. So far all I do is: "Remind me to wake up at 6am" or "Remind me to get my laundry in 30 minutes" (sets it in the todo list reminder app, since the alerts are better than the alarm app)
  - akvadrako 8y ago
    I think you have a lot of company in the "only use Siri to set timers" camp. I also do alarms and appointments, but nothing else is reliable enough.
- DennisAleynikov 8y ago
  Stuff like estimates for driving time with traffic, or simple trivia questions is something I very frequently ask my google home. Otherwise when I'm using the phone I almost never use it unless I'm far from my phone and I need to do something simple.
- scarface74 8y ago
  I posted a list earlier, but hopefully you don’t type while you’re driving. But things like Reminders are quicker with Siri. Especially things like Reminders based on external triggers - like locations and getting in and out of the car.
- criddell 8y ago
  You can type faster than you speak on your phone? I can't type that fast and when I'm driving I don't want to type at all. For me, being able to say "navigate to 123 main street" or "play the beatles" is very convenient.
subroutine 8y ago
Cognitive science has a term called "Theory of Mind" (ToM), which refers a human cognitive ability that typically emerges in 4 year olds (In fact there is a famous experiment you should look up and try if you have any kids/nieces/nephews around that age), whereby humans are able to formulate the mind of another entity (the capacity it's working at; information it holds, and doesn't). This is what allows us to, for example, tell a lie. It also allows us to modify our approach in the way we communicate with dogs vs children vs adults, for better communication efficacy (or two different adults where one has high and one has low expertise in some domain, like programming). In my opinion the biggest thing preventing me from using siri is not what it can and cannot do, but that it has been nearly impossible for me to develop a ToM for Siri. And since I simply dont know what siri is capable of, I only use this bot for a very narrow set of tasks. Furthermore one of my ToM priors for siri is that she has a mind that is incapable of learning. This is a big turnoff - bigger than i think we acknowledge; since we are used to interacting with entities that can, even if laboriously. For instance my Australian shepherd might not be able to bring me the newspaper; but if I really wanted her to do that task, I could slowly get her to approximate that behavior, and it would probably be satisfying to see progress in performance. With siri, I simply assume there are things she can do and things she cannot, and it'd be pointless to try and goad her into adding even a trivial task to her functional repertoire.
- yonkshi 8y ago
  The thought of Siri intentionally telling white lies is pretty funny and a bit creepy - Hey Siri, am I fat? - No Bruce, you are just big boned - Thanks Siri.
  - rubatuga 8y ago
    No need for down votes. Yeah it’s interesting how psychology plays a role in us interacting with a voice assistant too. I don’t think Siri will ever be able to judge you on something.
  - chrisweekly 8y ago
    tangent: I'd ask anyone claiming to be "big boned" to show me a fat skeleton.
Tehnix 8y ago
A lot of people seem to mention Assistant Routines, but the major problem here is that it’s not available in a lot of countries outside the US (even not the UK..), meaning it’s not actually an alternative for the majority of the world. The funny bit is though, that your Google Home will still recommend that you set up routines for things, except you just...can’t. Since I don’t have it available myself, I cannot comment much on it, but while searching for why it wasn’t appearing in the Home app, I certainly didn’t get the impression that people are impressed by it :(
gkilmain 8y ago
To run an Alexa skill on iPhone you need to install the Alexa app and the Amazon app and use your Amazon app to handle the voice part. Then open the Alexa app to view the card. I hope I'm understanding the hype of the article correctly in that I can build a native app and use Siri to interact with it.
jacksmith21006 8y ago
The issue is a lot more than short cuts. Recently Apple has shared going to start from scratch with Apple Maps. They need to so the same with Siri.
jtbayly 8y ago
But does anybody know whether it will finally be possible for me to ask Siri to give me directions to my next appointment? I’ve been waiting for this obvious functionality for years.
- mergesort 8y ago
  Yep, you can do that. This weekend I made a shortcut that goes through your calendar, finds the next appointment, and then picks your maps app of choice to load up directions into. I took it another step further and am working on a version where it looks at the prices on Lyft and Uber, presents you with the respective options, and calls a ride to your next appointment. Shortcuts in iOS 12 are a real fun little thing to play with, the most fun I've had programming in a while. Happy to send it to you. I looked for your contact info but couldn't find any way to contact you, but feel free to reach out in my profile if you want.
  - jtbayly 8y ago
    I'm not running the beta, so I guess don't bother. I'm sure I'll have fun creating it myself in a few months. :)
SN76477 8y ago
I just want macros. I would love to have a single button that does in OS functions, like having a button for EQ settings, or to launch a specific website in a browser (such as a different weather service)
mustacheemperor 8y ago
Looks like this update still won't let you ask Siri to play a specific song on any service except Apple Music, which is definitely my biggest gripe with Siri and the iPhone at large since switching from Android. I would switch to Apple Music, except then there'd be no way to wirelessly cast/play music through my component stereo. Semi related, if anyone has solutions to this problem I'd be very appreciative.

239 points by evo_9 8y ago

sirn 8y ago

To demonstrate what Shortcuts will be able to do, here's someone writing a C parser in Workflow (a predecessor to Shortcuts): https://twitter.com/uroboro845/status/985169126871224321 https://twitter.com/uroboro845/status/985169126871224321 (One of the replies is by Ari Weinstein, who is currently on the Siri Shortcuts team)

walterbell 8y ago

> This user-centric approach paired with the technical aspects of how Shortcuts works gives Apple’s assistant a leg up for any consumers who find privacy important. Essentially, Apple devices are only listening for “Hey Siri”, then the available Siri domains + your own custom trigger phrases. Without exposing your information to the world or teaching a robot to understand everything, Apple gave Siri a slew of capabilities that in many ways can’t be matched. Is there a good doc or video that delineates what data stays on the device vs. being sent to Apple for processing? E.g. how much of this functionality will be available if you are not signed into iCloud?

mark212 8y ago
from the keynote, no information is sent to Apple for processing. Whether it'll work if you're not signed into iCloud is a different issue but from the way it's described in various places in the WWDC Keynote, it ought to work just fine without any data connection, like airplane mode and no Wifi.
- rueynshard 8y ago
  Wouldn't the user's speech data need to be sent to Apple to convert to text, or identify the intent first?
  - peckrob 8y ago
    We were doing speech recognition 20 years ago without any kind of networking. I dictated part of a term paper in 1995. Dragon Dictate I think is what it was called. You could even navigate the word processor menus and UI with it, or say things like “make that bold” and it usually worked! Just a bit less often often than Siri works actually. Sure it was more of a novelty, and had to be trained on your voice. But that was 20 years ago.
    - walterbell 8y ago
      Not only is Dragon still a product, it is owned by Nuance, which helped to develop Siri and drew on SRI research, https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerkay/2014/03/24/behind-apples-siri-lies-nuances-speech-recognition/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerkay/2014/03/24/behind-appl...
      - Angostura 8y ago
        Hence Siri’s name.
    - MiddleEndian 8y ago
      Even Apple had this working a long long time ago in classic mac os. I used to launch all my applications via voice til I got bored of it.
      - Razengan 8y ago
        macOS still has non-Siri voice-control under Accessibility Preferences.
        Angostura 8y ago
        And iOS has very good non-Siri dictation
        saagarjha 8y ago
threeseed 8y ago
This describes everything: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
marmshallow 8y ago
Is this a change for all Siri functionality? It currently requires internet on my iPhone.

ehsankia 8y ago

It's great to see Apple finally add some powerful customization, and for power users this is fantastic, but to average users this makes no difference. When it comes to normal queries, Siri is still far behind. Sure, with some extra work I can get almost any query to work, but most users don't want to manually code up all their queries.

jsjohnst 8y ago
None of the digital assistants (I have most of them) do anything truly useful out of the box for me, so the “needing to do work to customize” isn’t an issue for me. I’m actually happy I finally can with Siri, bit late, but better than never.
adam 8y ago
Perhaps it's already there, but I wonder if shortcuts will be able to be shared or there will be a library for them. So someone can pre-define all sorts of stuff, then I as a "basic" user can just add the shortcut vs. having to "program" it myself.
- hug 8y ago
  Workflow (the mother of Siri Shortcuts, as I understand it) already has sharing functionality. For example, this "get travel time to input destination" Workflow: https://workflow.is/workflows/ff987bcf0ad746d496415d7f4c75a872 https://workflow.is/workflows/ff987bcf0ad746d496415d7f4c75a8...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Shortcuts has this as well.
threeseed 8y ago
> but to average users this makes no difference Ordinary users will just pick prepackaged workflows out of the gallery. And some I can imagine being very popular e.g. "Post last photo to Instagram".

shiburizu 8y ago

Saw someone else comment on a different TechCrunch article here on HN about how these articles about Apple read like press releases. I really feel that now.

ndynan 8y ago
As a PM, this article is what I would write as sample press coverage I'd like for a product release. Interesting to see that the author is a former PR member of http://my.workflow.is/ http://my.workflow.is/ + has one recent article for TechCrunch. Oh hey looks they were purchased by Apple: https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/22/apple-has-acquired-workflow-a-powerful-automation-tool-for-ipad-and-iphone/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/22/apple-has-acquired-workflo... Quick Edit: I'm not saying that this isn't good technology, rather I'm more concerned that TechCrunch is taking contributors who have ties to products being reported on and may have interests that are not being communicated to readers.
- ianlevesque 8y ago
  Yeah, this is native advertising and it's Everywhere.
  - ibeckermayer 8y ago
    "Native advertising" sounds very much like the MBA-term for what I would call "deception". (I'm not accusing you of anything, just making commentary)
- codezero 8y ago
  TechCrunch does this all the time, most of the "news" blogs do – I worked at a company that employed a PR firm that basically put our product release collateral directly onto a bunch of those blogs – it made me very uncomfortable.
- dwaite 8y ago
  Workflow is the technology which is becoming the Siri Shortcuts editor.

dwaite 8y ago

Two of the issues with Siri is that Apple does not like to roll out features unless they work for everyone (across all languages), and discoverability of what it can do against disappointment in what it can't (really, you think defaulting to a Bing search is the best thing to do in this case?) Siri Shortcuts lets you define your own local command and control phrases from presented actions, effectively solving both issues. It could (depending on per user investment) make Siri way more individually useful.

ronnier 8y ago

iOS 12 beta is amazing. It is extremely fast and feels like perfection. Hopefully apple will open the OS a little more for customization and apps to do more powerful things then it will truly be perfection.

Kpourdeilami 8y ago
How does it hold up for day to day use? Is it stable enough that could be installed on your main phone without many issues?
- Razengan 8y ago
  I have installed it on my one and only iPhone (X) since it was made available. No issues so far except a couple random resprings (soft restarts.) I can’t decide how much of an improvement it is over iOS 11 though (which was already performing good enough for me.) I think this year’s big winner is macOS, not iOS.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  I've had my lock screen flip out a couple times, once requiring a manual reboot of my phone. The notifications list has graphical glitches. Some third-party apps are suspiciously crashy. It's probably the least problematic early iOS beta I've used, but like any beta I still wouldn't rely on it if missing a call would be a deal-breaker.
- graeme 8y ago
  Fairly stable for me. Occasional freezes, sometimes requiring a reset. Definitely feels faster, even on an iphone 8.

tzahola 8y ago

Sounds like Automator for dummies.

saagarjha 8y ago
A dumbed-down Automator, maybe. Please don’t insult the users of Workflow.
- tzahola 8y ago
  I'm not insulting anyone. "X for dummies" is a book series.
  - mlang23 8y ago
    Which doesn't make it any less insulting.

mirceal 8y ago

I personally turn off all notifications on my iPhone (except for a few select apps) and do not use Siri. I can tell you that the Siri suggestions in Search really annoyed me (usually use search to find... apps, not to be fed all the crap from random apps). I want a clean, non-intrusive experience. Apple should focus making the hardware better and to get the software out of the way (don’t make me think about it) instead of pulling all this crap on its users in the name of innovations.

mark212 8y ago
a big part of the improved Siri integrations is helping group the notifications and give you the option to shut them off. So it really is trying to get the software out of the way if you want
jknz 8y ago
> I can tell you that the Siri suggestions in Search really annoyed me (usually use search to find... apps, not to be fed all the crap from random apps). In iOS 11 the delay for searhing for apps is unacceptable. instead of displaying the apps found right away (substring match over all apps should be instantaneous), it waits until all the crap from Siri and other random apps is fetched.
- matt-attack 8y ago
  Agreed. The only way I find & launch apps (besides the 4 on the dock) is by swipe-down from the middle of the homescreen, to reveal search, then to search for the app's name. This is very analogous to how I launch apps in OSX, namely command-SPACE, then start typing the application name. It's extremely frustrating when iOS takes forever to find an app, or worse proioritizes all kinds of other garbage before the app's icon. If I type "waz" and I have the Waze app installed, I sure as hell expect to see the Waze icon instantly at the very top. Ideally, after typing just the "W".
  - hug 8y ago
    You'll be pleased to know that the results in iOS 12 instantly reveal the first four-matching installed apps. (Instantly meaning "I can't really determine how long it takes, because it's probably somewhere under 100ms") All of the other stuff loads very quickly. Mail results are very very quick (over 3 inboxes containing over 100,000 mail items), and then a-bit-less-quick for the Siri search suggestions. I'm actually shocked at how much iOS 12 improved responsiveness.

mark212 8y ago

This is a great example of how owning the entire stack from CPU on up to user interface allows a company to do things that others just can't. Whether it's any good or not, well, time will tell. But it's not even possible for any other company (maybe Google with the Pixel, maybe).

rueynshard 8y ago
I don't see why this could not be possible on Android. All Google needs to do is build an API for Assistant that other apps can use to 'donate' frequently used actions/intents. Assistant can then make suggestions to users based on its own analysis of users' activities in the same way Siri does.
- Bahamut 8y ago
  Apple could feasibly go further and do integration with macOS Siri as well down the line I'd imagine - Google can't do that nearly as deeply.
  - garyrob 8y ago
    Especially since the next macOS release will run iOS apps. That may be the approach Apple is planning to bring this to the Mac.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      The next version of macOS won’t run iOS apps. Apple is working on unifying some of their frameworks to work across platforms.
      - garyrob 8y ago
        OK, thanks for that clarification. That does make more sense.
  - izacus 8y ago
    Why? Can you explain that reasoning? Google already shipped full integration of Assistant into their ChromeOS.

jordansmithnz 8y ago

I’m the developer of a popular timetable/schedule app for college. It seems like the perfect use case for Siri: “What class do I have next?”. Up until now it hasn’t been possible due to the restrictive API. I’ve looked into the new shortcuts and Siri API docs and although the beta documentation is sparse, I’m confident I’ll be able to develop a natural, first class Siri integration. Unfortunately, it won’t be trivial to implement (at least to do well). It probably won’t be done before the iOS 12 release, and I’m hesitant to start working it just yet due to the sparse beta docs. Over the next year or two, I think there will be some great Siri integrations built. Hopefully, users discover and use them :)

Operyl 8y ago
I think we’ll see more useful docs before release, they usually release more and more up until the iPhone launch events.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  They're already up, though a bit sparse: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sirikit/
aeleos 8y ago
Do you mind sharing what the app is called?
- Operyl 8y ago
  He created Class Timetable. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/class-timetable/id425121147?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/class-timetable/id425121147?...
  - aeleos 8y ago
    Thanks
berti 8y ago

threeseed 8y ago

I also think this is going to revolutionise the TouchBar. The ability to have contextual shortcuts could be pretty powerful.

MBCook 8y ago
I think this is iOS only for now, but it seems like a very obvious thing to port to the Mac.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  It’s already there in the form of Automator and AppleScript.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    That’s a different way of automating things. Automater seems to have been ignored, and AppleScript is quite old and people have been worried about for years.

madrox 8y ago

This is great for developers, but pointless for users. It doesn't change the user behavior, and the research shows people are using VA at home and nowhere else...a place better suited to Google Home and Echo. There've been a lot of attempts by Apple to create richer hooks into apps like search integration, but they don't do much for engagement. There's some good ideas out there, along with anecdotal successes, but the interaction model isn't great and better app integration won't fix that.

MBCook 8y ago
I use Siri on my phone all the time. Do you have a link to that research? I haven’t heard that before. Given that iOS will be prompting people with possible Shortcuts based on what they do frequently I can easily see people starting to adopt this. I don’t think you have to use Siri to trigger these, it’s just an obvious easy/fast way. Users could still use the shortcut app or widget to do it. As I’ve been watching some of the Apple community on Twitter since this started to go into beta they’ve already produced some fun/surprising stuff. This seems like it’s going to be a BIG deal.
- madrox 8y ago
  This is the best I can do right now. It isn't where I originally read it but google is failing me. https://creativestrategies.com/voice-assistant-anyone-yes-please-but-not-in-public/ https://creativestrategies.com/voice-assistant-anyone-yes-pl... What it comes to is the people on HN don't represent most people using iPhones.
Angostura 8y ago
Good news for HomePod and CarPlay users, and I suspect that the ability to have a short phrase, trigger a sequence of complex actions will make Siriuse out and about more common.
scarface74 8y ago
With more laws being passed about using your phone while driving and seeing that most cars have Bluetooth integration, it should become more popular. I use Siri all of the time while driving.

adityapurwa 8y ago

So basically they exposed an API to add to Siri a new skills. I wonder whether other platform already did simillar things? CMIIW, Cortana already exposed an API for us right?

MBCook 8y ago
Really they’ve combined two things. They took an app called workflow, which they bought, would you can use to automate things on iOS. They extended it dramatically, and then added the magic ingredient of making it possible to have Siri call those actions that you define. Plus some AI stuff to suggest shortcuts for things you do frequently. Alexa is quite popular because it has so many skills the people have created for it. That’s one of the reasons people claim Siri has been “behind“ and Amazon’s Echo devices have been doing so well. I don’t know if Cortana or Bixby support anything like this.
- halflings 8y ago
  Android has the same features: https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/google-launches-slices/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/08/google-launches-slices/

ggg9990 8y ago

Why is the first screenshot some dumbfuck game nagging me to play again?

jsperx 8y ago
It’s to highlight the “Keep”/“Manage” UI that iOS 12 will have to silence apps that abuse notifications.

halflings 8y ago

> Also, Shortcuts don’t require the web to work – the voice triggers might not work, but the suggestions and Shortcuts app give you a place to use your assistant voicelessly. And importantly, Shortcuts can use the full power of the web when they need to. > This user-centric approach paired with the technical aspects of how Shortcuts works gives Apple’s assistant a leg up for any consumers who find privacy important. Essentially, Apple devices are only listening for “Hey Siri”, then the available Siri domains + your own custom trigger phrases. I don't get it. How is this different from Android? Android Actions [0] were announced before this. I think Assistant also works offline (with most voice commands + in voiceless mode). [0] https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/ https://developer.android.com/guide/actions/

hug 8y ago
SiriKit and Siri Shortcuts are very different things. SiriKit allows you to build Siri support into your app a la Android Actions, but Siri Shortcuts is designed to allow drag-and-drop end-user "programming" of workflows that can be triggered by Siri. "Hey Siri, I'm on my way home" could turn on you thermostat up, order you a pizza, remotely trigger your IoT enabled kettle and start playing your home-commute playlist. For the more advanced of us, Workflow currently allows doing things like calling arbitrary REST APIs and parsing JSON. I've reverse engineered the API of a local coffee-ordering app so I can one-click order my morning coffee. Next thing I'm planning is my "I need a coffee" button which will get the nearest cafe, order me a flat white, and pull up the directions.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Yeah, Siri Shortcuts seems more like using Tasker with the AutoVoice plugin.
- sharcerer 8y ago
  Siri Shortcuts is same as Google Assistant routines. Only they didn't make an extra app for it. Say" I'm Home" and a lo of Assistant Actions will get triggered.

myrandomcomment 8y ago

I switched to car play and use Siri a lot more then I used to. For most things it is fine. Others... this could help. One thing I would like to know is why Siri cannot answer basic questions about what music is on my phone. For example, “what albums by New Order do I have on my iPhone?”. That does not work but “play album Substance 1987 by New Order” does.

robin_reala 8y ago
Siri on CarPlay is useless for me. Maybe it’s my situation (RP British English, driving in Sweden) but it usually takes 10 attempts to get it to recognise a track I want to be played, and getting routing information is easily double that for anything other than ‘drive home’. I one tried to get it to route me to ‘Malmö’ (third largest city in Sweden) and gave up after 30 attempts. I honestly have no idea what I’m doing wrong, but I suspect nothing and it’s just useless software.
- Angostura 8y ago
  As another RP speaker using CarPlay, it works well. However you do have to heavily anglicise placenames when abroad. So I just tried ‘ get directions to Mal-moe’ and it worked first time.
  - hug 8y ago
    As someone who speaks in a strong Cultivated Australian accent, I fear Siri will never get me.
    - jacobush 8y ago
      Ubicomps colonial impulse at work. Siri may not adapt to speakers, but speakers will adapt to her. https://www.academia.edu/14861357/Ubicomps_colonial_impulse https://www.academia.edu/14861357/Ubicomps_colonial_impulse
- thirdsun 8y ago
  I'm not sure if this has changed yet, but until recently Siri regularly failed to recognize artists, albums or titles, which often happen to be english, if the device/siri was set to a different language. In my case that's german and I can't count the number of times I had to pronounce the artists I wanted Siri to play in a ridiculously german way. English is so ubiquitous that, in my opinion, all Siri queries should be checked for both local language and english.

GeekyBear 8y ago

Think of Shortcuts as a visual scripting language that leverages app functionality and ties into Siri. Either you can use drag and drop to write your own scripts, or you can run scripts written by others. You can run your scripts in a variety of ways, including a trigger phrase you set with Siri. Here's a short video showing the creation of a very simple script in an older version of the program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK0sBtF5_1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK0sBtF5_1E If you are a podcaster, you might create a more complicated script that converts a source audio file to MP3, adds MP3 tags and artwork to the resulting file and then uses FTP to upload the result to your podcasting network. Another script idea would be to text someone a list of the blocks of free time you have open during a given workday based on your calendar data to help set up a meeting. The possibilities are wide open. You can even tie directly into web API's.

LTL_FTC 8y ago

"hey Siri, destroy all evidence!" phone begins wipe

saagarjha 8y ago
I’m sure you’re trying to be humorous, but just in case you’re not, this isn’t something that Shortcuts lets you do.

romangibson 8y ago

So, is it ready to do the complex task just like google and amazon echo?

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Does Google finally allows user to configure top-level actions, instead of the silly "Ok Google, ask $someapp to do something" (where what I want is simply "Ok Google, do something")?
- singularity2001 8y ago
  Or even better just "$act" when I'm alone in the room! The "Ok Alexa ask $someapp to …" prefix is disgusting.

arthurofbabylon 8y ago

I agree with this idea for one reason in particular: as a user, truly leveraging Siri requires a manual engagement - the experience is not conversational, it is not like speaking with a person. It is like using a tool - one needs to conscientiously adjust oneself to follow its rules and get it to work as desired. Users actively taking control over how they use Siri (as in iOS 12 Siri shortcuts) will almost certainly encourage them to more conscientiously adjust their usage behavior patterns. There exists a general assumption that a voice has a human-intelligence behind it, but obviously now not all voices do. This poses a tough learning curve, as evinced by criticism of Siri as ineffective or plain bad. Yeah, Siri won’t respond the same way your boyfriend will when you ask him to find some good Chinese food, or express some feeling. But Siri will excell at setting alarms, or adding an event to the calendar, or starting a meditation with Timeless. It comes down to matching the language to the tool / following a protocol. It comes down to manually engaging with precision.

saagarjha 8y ago
> Siri won’t respond the same way your boyfriend will when you ask him to find some good Chinese food, or express some feeling I think Siri did pretty well when I asked her these: Q: Find me some good Chinese food Siri: I found four Chinese restaurants a little ways from you: Q: How are you? Siri: Very well, thank you!
- singularity2001 8y ago
  That's about the only things Siri can handle without completely blowing it.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Yeah, which is why I was surprised to see that the parent comment chose those as examples…
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I use Siri the most when I’m driving. It comes in handy for a lot of things then... Directions. - Take me to X. Reading text messages - “Read my text messages from my wife” or “Read my last text message” Reminders - “Remind me to call my X/do X when I get in the car/get out the car/get home/at Y” Music/Podcasts - Play X/Play a song by Y. Taking notes, calendar events, (What do I have to do today?)

Shank 8y ago

To me, the biggest thing here is that it takes a completely different approach than what has been the traditional path for voice assistants. In the past, it was always the game of waiting either for a custom skill or app, or it was hoping that Google or Amazon would program in some logic for handling a particular case. Shortcuts enables basically any end user with enough devotion and dedication to short circuit this. It doesn’t require them to be an app developer and it doesn’t require them to learn code at all. The most basic shortcuts can be created without any if-then-else logic while enabling so much. I’ve seen my mom ask her Google Assistant to do things with “and” a lot and they just don’t work because command chaining hasn’t been implemented. But with Shorcuts, she could conceivably make a chain and designate a phrase to be conversationally equivalent with an “and” in the middle. Instead of having to explain to family why Siri can’t do X or Y, I can just make a Shortcut or show them how, and I’ve solved the problem rather than explaining why it can’t be done.

refulgentis 8y ago
Google has command chaining, as well as Routines - i.e. Shortcuts, but with intuitive UI. Apple is moving Automator to iOS, this isnt voice UI, its imprecise programming: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhbmQJBX4AMEoho.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhbmQJBX4AMEoho.jpg:large
- saagarjha 8y ago
  The "voice UI" part isn't shown on that screen: you can assign a phrase to use to trigger these Shortcuts.
- Shank 8y ago
  You can call Workflow/Shorcuts imprecise programming, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Routines don't let you arbitrarily group data and interact with it in a way that's friendly to non-programmers.
entropie 8y ago
> I’ve seen my mom ask her Google Assistant to do things with “and” a lot and they just don’t work because command chaining hasn’t been implemented it is implemented. It just doesnt work often (or at all) for foreign languages. I'am pretty sure this is the next big thing google is updating > Instead of having to explain to family why Siri can’t do X or Y, I can just make a Shortcut or show them how, and I’ve solved the problem rather than explaining why it can’t be done. At least with GA and ifttt you can as of late make your own phrases (and responders). Nothing for the nontechies, but some progress there.

mgiannopoulos 8y ago

That’s all good but I hope that Siri can be improved to understand voices like mine (a native Greek so my English accent is not perfect). Siri understands 40-50% of what I say. Google (on iOS, so same hardware) is more like 80-90%.

bitwize 8y ago
Google's voice recognition is nuts. One time I fired up Google's voice search and fed it some of the MST3K names for Dave Ryder from Space Mutiny (e.g., "Punch Rockgroin", "Blast Hardcheese", "Splint Chesthair", "Big McLargehuge", etc.) and was surprised at how many of the searches it got right -- capitalization, spacing, and all.

mlang23 8y ago

Siri? The worst voice "assistant" of all? On HN? Come on, dont buy the hype. Apple is zombie dead, its obvious, but they dont realize it themselves. With such a valium boss, things had to go downhill. With every release, VoiceOver, their assistive technology thing for the blind, has steadily decreased in quality and usefulness. And dont even get me started on Siri. In the five years after Siri was launched first, it didn't improve at all. Actually, at least for me, quality of recognition went down over the years. I used to use its "call ..." feature, but stopped, because in 50% of the cases, it doesnt recognize the name. And in some cases, it even calls a random person from my phone book. Thanks, I dont even want to be able to customize this piece of sh..

amelius 8y ago

Does anyone know of an extensive list of useful things that people typically ask their voice assistant? As a non-user, and as someone who types faster than they speak, I find it hard to come up with compelling use-cases.

fouc 8y ago
Haven't looked for a list, that'd be a good idea. So far all I do is: "Remind me to wake up at 6am" or "Remind me to get my laundry in 30 minutes" (sets it in the todo list reminder app, since the alerts are better than the alarm app)
- akvadrako 8y ago
  I think you have a lot of company in the "only use Siri to set timers" camp. I also do alarms and appointments, but nothing else is reliable enough.
DennisAleynikov 8y ago
Stuff like estimates for driving time with traffic, or simple trivia questions is something I very frequently ask my google home. Otherwise when I'm using the phone I almost never use it unless I'm far from my phone and I need to do something simple.
scarface74 8y ago
I posted a list earlier, but hopefully you don’t type while you’re driving. But things like Reminders are quicker with Siri. Especially things like Reminders based on external triggers - like locations and getting in and out of the car.
criddell 8y ago
You can type faster than you speak on your phone? I can't type that fast and when I'm driving I don't want to type at all. For me, being able to say "navigate to 123 main street" or "play the beatles" is very convenient.

subroutine 8y ago

Cognitive science has a term called "Theory of Mind" (ToM), which refers a human cognitive ability that typically emerges in 4 year olds (In fact there is a famous experiment you should look up and try if you have any kids/nieces/nephews around that age), whereby humans are able to formulate the mind of another entity (the capacity it's working at; information it holds, and doesn't). This is what allows us to, for example, tell a lie. It also allows us to modify our approach in the way we communicate with dogs vs children vs adults, for better communication efficacy (or two different adults where one has high and one has low expertise in some domain, like programming). In my opinion the biggest thing preventing me from using siri is not what it can and cannot do, but that it has been nearly impossible for me to develop a ToM for Siri. And since I simply dont know what siri is capable of, I only use this bot for a very narrow set of tasks. Furthermore one of my ToM priors for siri is that she has a mind that is incapable of learning. This is a big turnoff - bigger than i think we acknowledge; since we are used to interacting with entities that can, even if laboriously. For instance my Australian shepherd might not be able to bring me the newspaper; but if I really wanted her to do that task, I could slowly get her to approximate that behavior, and it would probably be satisfying to see progress in performance. With siri, I simply assume there are things she can do and things she cannot, and it'd be pointless to try and goad her into adding even a trivial task to her functional repertoire.

yonkshi 8y ago
The thought of Siri intentionally telling white lies is pretty funny and a bit creepy - Hey Siri, am I fat? - No Bruce, you are just big boned - Thanks Siri.
- rubatuga 8y ago
  No need for down votes. Yeah it’s interesting how psychology plays a role in us interacting with a voice assistant too. I don’t think Siri will ever be able to judge you on something.
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  tangent: I'd ask anyone claiming to be "big boned" to show me a fat skeleton.

Tehnix 8y ago

A lot of people seem to mention Assistant Routines, but the major problem here is that it’s not available in a lot of countries outside the US (even not the UK..), meaning it’s not actually an alternative for the majority of the world. The funny bit is though, that your Google Home will still recommend that you set up routines for things, except you just...can’t. Since I don’t have it available myself, I cannot comment much on it, but while searching for why it wasn’t appearing in the Home app, I certainly didn’t get the impression that people are impressed by it :(

gkilmain 8y ago

To run an Alexa skill on iPhone you need to install the Alexa app and the Amazon app and use your Amazon app to handle the voice part. Then open the Alexa app to view the card. I hope I'm understanding the hype of the article correctly in that I can build a native app and use Siri to interact with it.

jacksmith21006 8y ago

The issue is a lot more than short cuts. Recently Apple has shared going to start from scratch with Apple Maps. They need to so the same with Siri.

jtbayly 8y ago

But does anybody know whether it will finally be possible for me to ask Siri to give me directions to my next appointment? I’ve been waiting for this obvious functionality for years.

mergesort 8y ago
Yep, you can do that. This weekend I made a shortcut that goes through your calendar, finds the next appointment, and then picks your maps app of choice to load up directions into. I took it another step further and am working on a version where it looks at the prices on Lyft and Uber, presents you with the respective options, and calls a ride to your next appointment. Shortcuts in iOS 12 are a real fun little thing to play with, the most fun I've had programming in a while. Happy to send it to you. I looked for your contact info but couldn't find any way to contact you, but feel free to reach out in my profile if you want.
- jtbayly 8y ago
  I'm not running the beta, so I guess don't bother. I'm sure I'll have fun creating it myself in a few months. :)

SN76477 8y ago

I just want macros. I would love to have a single button that does in OS functions, like having a button for EQ settings, or to launch a specific website in a browser (such as a different weather service)

mustacheemperor 8y ago

Looks like this update still won't let you ask Siri to play a specific song on any service except Apple Music, which is definitely my biggest gripe with Siri and the iPhone at large since switching from Android. I would switch to Apple Music, except then there'd be no way to wirelessly cast/play music through my component stereo. Semi related, if anyone has solutions to this problem I'd be very appreciative.