29 ms·

Not Only Is the Mac Mini Outdated, It's No Longer Mini

380 points by okket 8y ago

giancarlostoro 8y ago
This is sad I still await the Mac Mini being properly updated. Please Apple do not disappoint...
- wahern 8y ago
  I'm still using my 4-core, mid-2011 Mini. Aside from the poorly supported graphics hardware--video playback in Chrome, etc has inexplicably taken up more CPU over the years, I guess because lazy developers increasingly depend on more modern CPU and GPU features--I have no reason to upgrade and nothing enticing to upgrade to. It seems my mini won't be supported for macOS 10.14, and I have no idea what I'll do. I'm also still hanging onto my Macbook Air, which to me is the epitome of laptop design.
  - jrs95 8y ago
    You probably don't have hardware level support for the VP9 codec, when YouTube switched to that my laptop at the time would run it's fans at 100% just to play a video.
    - ksk 8y ago
      I remember playing DVDs on 20-ish year old hardware. Even without a hardware decoder, I can't imagine how a modern CPU is unable to handle simple tasks like video decoding. Maybe its the higher bitrate..
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - jdietrich 8y ago
        >Maybe its the higher bitrate.. An HD Netflix stream has about the same bitrate as a DVD, but has drastically better image quality. Modern codecs are extremely efficient in terms of bandwidth, but that comes at the cost of computational complexity. Decoding HEVC or VP9 is far from a simple task; hardware acceleration of video decoding is absolutely crucial for power-constrained devices like smartphones and laptops.
        ksk 8y ago
        > Modern codecs are extremely efficient in terms of bandwidth, but that comes at the cost of computational complexity Right, but as with every codec, the cost is always heavily skewed towards encoding the stream. >Decoding HEVC or VP9 is far from a simple task; hardware acceleration of video decoding is absolutely crucial for power-constrained devices like smartphones and laptops. I don't believe that decoding video streams should come anywhere close to saturating a modern CPU in 2018. The hardware acceleration you mentioned isn't magic, and doesn't use any crazy tech either. Its going to be some kind of low powered ARM chip on MediaTek SoCs like the MT8581.
  - fetus8 8y ago
    I'm still rocking my mid-2012 Mini that I upgraded to 16GB RAM and an SSD, luckily I'm getting 10.14, but otherwise I also see zero reason to upgrade my desktop Mac atm. This machine has been more than powerful for most tasks I've thrown at it, and it still runs like a dream. If Apple were to actually upgrade/update the Mini with new CPUs and a smaller form factor, I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade finally. Those Intel NUCs are starting to get real appealing to me, but I'm not ready to jump to Windows or Linux for my home machines...
    - j45 8y ago
      Mind sharing which SSD you used? I'm on the fence of updating my 2012 mini like yours or move to a NUC but not be able to upgrade it. Might be worth just riding it out until the next Mac mini that runs on A* cpu's instead arrives.
      - Tempest1981 8y ago
        I upgraded a 2012 Mini with a 240GB SanDisk [0]. It wasn't too bad, but watch the YouTube videos first. (And, as noted above, the 2014 may be trickier.) [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M8ABEIM https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M8ABEIM
        j45 8y ago
        Thanks! Seems like a good way to get some time out of this. Just have to keep in mind when Apple may EOL the MacOS/Security updates.
  - givinguflac 8y ago
    It’s not inexplicable, it’s chrome :).
  - oblib 8y ago
    I'm still using a late `09 mini with 8GB ram and an SSD drive. It's still working fine for web app dev work. This has been the best Mac I've ever owned. I would love to see a new Mac Mini come out and I've been ready to buy one and waiting on them to announce the new models for awhile now. That said, I'm ready to move over to a Linux Desktop now if Apple ditches the product entirely. I don't want to, but I know I'll do fine with it.
    - MisterOctober 8y ago
      I was a Mac user for ever 20 years -- finally ditched it a few weeks ago [for Linux] after getting fed up with their daft shenanigans. The whole App Store / iTunes archipelago, the willful rejection of expandable and [easily] user-serviceable hardware design in favor of a 'form before function' approach, the related planned obsolescence strategy [e.g., older hardware simply will not run recent software; new OS breaks older 3-party software], and the ghastly overpricing were among the factors that drove me off. Mainly, I liked MacOS because I prefer putting work into projects as opposed to maintaining my own system, and MacOS "just works," until it doesn't. These days though, I run an idiotresistant distribution of Linux on my productivity machine, a minimal one on my 'learning' machine, and am generally more content. Also, running Linux, I feel less like I'm directly interfacing with a villain from 'Black Mirror'
      - LiNeXT 8y ago
        I get it. I've been using Macs for 25+ years and I recently installed a Linux distro with KDE on my Mac in preparation for the ThinkPad I ordered after much deliberation (in lieu of getting one of those crappy "touch bar" MacBook Pros) on which I planned to run Linux while staying on MacOS on the Mac. I am almost certain now that I'm going to stick with Linux across the board on both machines. KDE suits me quite well. It's been a death by a thousand cuts staying with Apple these past few years. iOS is completely locked down (and shows no signs of relenting) and I only see them moving MacOS in the same direction. Their sub-par, insulting hardware offerings only further cement my view that they no longer give a crap about what the Mac used to be. So, like you, I'm out. It was a fun ride. I've been on-board since System 7.
- notadoc 8y ago
  It hasn't been updated for 4 years. If your spouse left you 4 years ago, would you still be waiting for them?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Spouses don't get normally updated every 1-2 years either. So the similarity is not exactly apt...
  - Applejinx 8y ago
    I would not marry my Mac, though I love it. The ports are not compatible.
- gaius 8y ago
  They crippled the Mac Mini (which was quad-core, 2 drive bays and upgradeable memory) to try and drive people onto the Mac Pro, when the Mini was a perfect machine for many workloads. Then of course they abandoned the Pro. So I wouldn’t hold your breath. Meanwhile see https://press.ext.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2016/hp-unveils-industrys-first-ever-mini-workstation.html https://press.ext.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2016/hp-unveil... for what others were doing in that form factor 2 years ago...
  - strictnein 8y ago
    And what Intel will sell you starting at $799: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12226/intels-hades-canyon-nucs-with-radeon-graphics-are-official-799999-shipping-in-spring-2018 https://www.anandtech.com/show/12226/intels-hades-canyon-nuc... The number of ports on that thing is crazy. Two displayport 1.3 and two thunderbolt 3 ports, to start with. https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12226/front_back_575px.png https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12226/front_back_575px.png
  - michrassena 8y ago
    It's been a number of years (the Intel NUC was a new product) since our office bought its first Mac mini. At that time, it was the only product that fit the requirements of size, performance and cooling, and even then was cheaper than many alternatives which weren't as good a fit. Today, there are quite a number of products, including gamer or workstation-class machines, in this form factor. What was once exotic for its compactness is a commodity. All-the-while, Apple has kept this product at a near-standstill. Almost certainly they're worried about cannibalizing their iMac line, or even the Mac Pro line. Given the level of innovation that has take place over the last five years, the remarkable thinness of laptops which Apple helped pioneer beginning with the Air, why aren't they putting out a Mac mini the size and thickness of a slice of bread?
    - gaius 8y ago
      That kind of thinking boggles my mind “we know people want X, which we make, so we’ll avoid making it so they’ll buy Y instead”.
nextos 8y ago
I can't understand why Apple doesn't make a fanless Mini. There's a respectable market for fanless NUCs, and the original Mini was a great machine. Plus, it's a cheap entry level to the Apple ecosystem.
- jimmies 8y ago
  Recently I have been contemplating getting an Apple machine at home just for Keynote, Pages, iMovie, Counter-Strike, iMessage/Facetime (and Photoshop, perhaps?), which I don't get on my low-powered Linux laptop. I've been using a Hackintosh-on-KVM kinda solution and it works OK for the most part even with my dedicated GPU, but not ideal and I'd be happy to convert to the light side to enjoy seamless upgrades and stuff. I don't want to shell out like $1200 for a dumb macbook that I don't use, but I would be happy to shell out $500 for a Keynote machine. For me, Keynote/Pages are the killer apps that only macOS has. iMessage/FT is the killer app that the Apple ecosystem has. Having a cheap entry to them is a great idea.
  - mathnmusic 8y ago
    Just today, I quickly created a slideshow by writing markdown using Marp and loved the experience. I'm guessing this will become my new workflow for making slides. https://yhatt.github.io/marp/ https://yhatt.github.io/marp/
    - jimmies 8y ago
      I've been a LaTEX/Markdown person for years before converting to Powerpoint/Keynote. If you want your slides to be minimal and clean and you don't have a lot of time to do, then Markdown works. To me, over time I am convinced that having the ability to do animations to explain technical ideas is great. While it's not impossible to do fly in/out/moving animations in LaTEX, presentation software makes it ten times easier to maintain. I think that not everything is best explained in code. Sometimes you need pictures/animations to convey the ideas.
      - mathnmusic 8y ago
twerkmonsta 8y ago
Doesn't this all feed into the idea that Apple is ditching x86/x64 and going full ARM? It would make sense that the Apple TV is so much more powerful considering Apple pours so much into custom ARM chip design and OS development. MacOS doesn't work on ARM, and it doesn't seem like Apple is interested in porting it. Seems more likely the new Mini, if there ever is one, would be ARM based.
- notadoc 8y ago
  > Doesn't this all feed into the idea that Apple is ditching Mac and going full iOS? FTFY
  - komon 8y ago
    This theory actually got Jossed in light of this year's WWDC keynote
    - notadoc 8y ago
      Sounds familiar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPAsWAcmrlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPAsWAcmrlE https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jul/19/ipad-prototype-ive-2002 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jul/19/ipad-prot... Apple has a history of denying something until it is working to their satisfaction.
      - kgermino 8y ago
        That doesn’t seem like the best example. I’m not sure what the context was for that video, hit it doesn’t look like Steve said that tablets would fail. He said that a tablet made in that era would only be useful to rich people who want an extra device just for content consumption. That’s still most of the market for tablets today.
        gowld 8y ago
        That's the point. Apple generally doesn't make forward-looking statements about its tech. They say that everything they don't do yet is wrong, and when they get it working they say it's so right. The "right now" part is implied.
agumonkey 8y ago
apple desktop lineup is such a mess..
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  Eh. No one every really complains about the iMac, which makes up most of their desktop offering.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ropeadopepope 8y ago
    Do you have a source on that? I never hear about iMacs, which makes me assume nobody uses them.
    - nicky0 8y ago
      Hmm
    - oarsinsync 8y ago
      Not the GP, no source, but anecdotally, I see lots and lots of design related offices around London littered with iMacs everywhere. Dunno if they like them, but they certainly use them.
    - macintux 8y ago
      Mac sales are pretty good relative to the overall market. iMacs are almost definitely a minority compared to laptops (Apple doesn't break out sales by model), but since Apple is selling somewhere north of 10 million Macs/year, there have to be several million iMacs in active use.
    - jakobegger 8y ago
      I've just looked at some statistics from update checks from Postico, a database app used mostly by web developers. - 93% of my customers have a laptop - 70% of desktop users have an iMac Graphs: https://imgur.com/a/H0N0BZy https://imgur.com/a/H0N0BZy
mb_72 8y ago
I've got an 2011-era Mac Mini that I've loved for developing - updated to 8GB of RAM + an SSD, it's been a great Xamarin machine for years. However now I'm looking for a replacement as Mojave won't support the hardware. With the dated Mac Mini and reports of many keyboard issues on Macbook Pros I'm looking at a Mac Air for a new development machine - and even these are getting a bit long in the tooth. Not really sure what Apple is up to these days.
- gm-conspiracy 8y ago
  It is really sad there is no equivalent for a 7 year old device. Is a Hackintosh an option for Mojave?
  - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
    It seems like Apple has given up on desktops entirely. OSX lags unbearably when performing normal workloads. Forget about running Xcode or a CPU intensive workload, your machine will freeze due to excessive memory leaks and swapping. It is an issue at the framework level, and I say that because all software written for OSX has to use a set of common frameworks to interface with the OS itself.
  - nyreed 8y ago
    People usually have success in getting newer OS versions running on formally unsupported macs.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      I doubt this will work for Mojave, since I believe everything was written using Metal.
- ovao 8y ago
  I still really like the iMac. While it doesn’t quite get the attention it deserves, it’s still a legitimately great machine. Overall, it may be the best machine Apple makes right now. I’m not all that fond of the Magic Keyboard (mine failed after a completely minor spill), but that’s an easy enough fix.
kwijibob 8y ago
My main work and home "PC"s are Mac Minis running Ubuntu. They are fantastic, beautiful and small machines that have worked reliably for 6-7 years. (as has Ubuntu!) At the time of purchase the Mac Mini was the best combination of small size and still fairly decent CPU/GPU firepower. I also have upgraded them to full SSD and 8gig ram. Of course, I will get a NUC whenever they need replacing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon...
dman 8y ago
He could have rewritten the last sentence from "They just seem to have lost any interest in making one that runs MacOS." to "They just seem to have lost any interest in MacOS.".
dragonshed 8y ago
I (might have) had a similar experience to the author, but instead with an earlier skylake model of the Intel NUCs. The only issue I (in theory) had was the predictably slow graphical performance due to the lack of a GPU. Ultimately I chose to keep using an older macbook pro as my main driver and installed linux to run things that were too slow for Vagrant/VMs. [Edit] Upon reflecting on this article and my (theoretical) experience, I'm going to do a little reading into how well supported AMD APUs are (i.e. Ryzen 5 2400g).
adsfgionioni 8y ago
Geekbench is pretty much useless, especially across architectures and OSes. It claims a maybe three-watt iPhone CPU can beat a 40-watt Ryzen 1200, which is plainly ridiculous. Apple makes a good CPU, but you'd have to be crazy to think they have beaten the competition by a factor of ten in power consumption with no compromise. When you see something incredible, be incredulous. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2051 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2051 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/50 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/50 Does anyone know of a decent iPhone benchmark? I'd be very interested in comparing their hardware to other CPUs, but none of the benchmarks I know run on iPhones. And the people who know what they're doing, e.g. Phoronix, don't test much mobile hardware.
- zitterbewegung 8y ago
  Geek bench does not perform long running tasks where you would observe thermal throttling . So a gaming benchmark would work. 3dmark ? https://benchmarks.ul.com/3dmark https://benchmarks.ul.com/3dmark
  - adsfgionioni 8y ago
    Not testing thermal throttling is fine. Often CPU tests are done with overkill cooling specifically to take throttling out of the picture.
- dljsjr 8y ago
  FWIW You can review the methodology that they use here: https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench4-cpu-workloads.pdf https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench4-cpu-workloads.pdf They don't provide source though. That's a detriment. It would be nice if their benchmarks were publicly audit-able.
- amatheus 8y ago
  Are geekbench scores meant to be used comparing different CPUs architectures like that? I thought they only made sense when comparing already similar processors.
- 8y ago
dmitriid 8y ago
> "They just seem to have lost any interest in making one that runs MacOS." Sadly, I believe that this statement is true not just for Mac Mini, but for the whole "pro"/desktop line of computers.
edvinbesic 8y ago
This will come across as nit-picky but this: > Calling the Mac Mini “mini” is absurd in 2018. doesn't make much sense. Mini is not an absolute unit of measurement, and the mac mini is still the smallest mac you can buy. The rest of it I agree with though and am patiently awaiting for a new mini or a better pro.
- elicash 8y ago
  The writer didn't say it was absolute. A huge part of the piece was comparing to Apple TV.
andrewstuart 8y ago
The thing that annoys me most is that Apple won't say that this product is dead, or if it is not dead then I'm even more annoyed at how long it takes to update.
- gowld 8y ago
  What does dead mean? You can buy one, and it will be supported for several years. The lack of a new one doesn't make the old one dead.
  - andrewstuart 8y ago
    It's dead if it is not a product that will be updated. That's the definition of dead for any line of computer products - sure you might be able to buy one now, but if there are no more iterations coming then the product (line) is dead.
    - adrianratnapala 8y ago
      As old time MS-DOS loving Never Appler, I don't get this. Every few years, if I need a new computer, I look at the options and then I buy or build one that meets my needs. What does it matter if the vendor is going to, or not going to, offer a similar-but-updated one in a few years?
      - andrewstuart 8y ago
        I was a die hard Microsoft lover for many many years. OSX is a much better operating system than Windows. So Im stuck with buying from Apple and Mac Mini was their entry level cost machine, that's why it matters.
        ksk 8y ago
        But realistically, when has Apple guaranteed anything about future products? Even if they released a newer version of the mini, you might hate it because they changed something you like.
Jyaif 8y ago
Translation: Apple is going to release a smaller mac.
emisario 8y ago
"But the striking thing to me is just how much smaller the Intel NUC is." Add the volume of the NUC's hideous and ungainly power supply brick. Then make your judgement on size. If you've taken a mini apart, you'd see that the easiest way volume could be significantly reduced is by replacing the space for two 3.5" drives with space for one modern NVME gum stick - a trick which the already NUC does thanks to its being developed more recently. The mini has Thunderbolt and and digital audio in/out. The NUC has neither of these. If you compare the interior of the mini and the NUC, the NUC does not stand out as an marvel of engineering or miniaturization. Anyway, whose desk cannot fit a mac mini?
- JasonFruit 8y ago
  I've seen many a power brick in my time, and some were ugly, but hideous seems excessive even for the worst of them.
- derefr 8y ago
  It's not about desks, really. Sufficiently-small-form-factor computers become "AIO enablement dongles", in the sense that you can stick one to the back of a monitor or TV (much like a "compute stick") and now that monitor or TV is an AIO PC. People use NUCs in that use-case quite a lot. Sufficiently-SFF computers are also used as kiosks, for POS systems, and other embedded use-cases. This isn't really the "pitch" behind the Mac Mini, but it's something the NUC is quite good at.
- arthurfm 8y ago
  > The mini has Thunderbolt and and digital audio in/out. The NUC has neither of these. The NUC I am using at the moment (a NUC7I5BNK) has Thunderbolt 3. The current Mac mini is stuck with Thunderbolt 2 and doesn't have any USB-C ports either.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  The Intel NUC has a VESA bracket, so you can mount your monitor to the NUC. Who needs a desk, you've now got an All-In-One.
- nottorp 8y ago
imagetic 8y ago
I think I have about about 20 Mac Mini's for various roles around my office. Probably the most used computers / servers in our entire environment. They're starting to show their age though. One by one they are being retired.
JetSetWilly 8y ago
> I don’t expect that Apple would make a box quite this ugly—those two USB ports on the front of the case would be the first to go That's what's annoying about Apple hardware and great about PCs in a nutshell: the constant need to put facile design looks above actual usability. Why should I have to fiddle around the back every time I want to plug or unplug a usb device?
- userbinator 8y ago
  Indeed, to the contrary I find the Apple aesthetic of making products that look like featureless blobs with an apple logo on them to be bland and ugly, but I suppose it fits with their direction of locked-down devices and fostering ignorance: the less the user can do with it, and the more control Apple has over what the user does, the better. It's disappointing to see only 4 USB ports on the high-end Mac Pro, when high-end PC motherboards are available with double-digit numbers of USB ports. Related: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/backwardspc.html http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/backwardspc.html
  - JeremyBanks 8y ago
    Nobody is defending the Mac Pro. Even Apple has, in a step almost unheard of for them, admitted that the current Mac Pro was a mistake, and promised its replacement will be very different and more extensible. Aside from that: enjoy your botnets.
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    You can always add dozens more USB ports with a powered hub. 6 Thunderbolt ports is unheard of however and provides great connectivity that you can't add after the fact, even on DIY PCs.
- rtpg 8y ago
  There's a bit of a bet going on in Apple's mindset. For most people, USB drives are no longer a thing (Dropbox, mail-to-self, etc.), so why put ports in the front? If they're in the back you can set up your keyboard cable or w/e nicely and keep those out of the way. _If_ your USB usage is not 'often plugging/unplugging stuff into the port', then having the ports in the back is better for usability and the like. Of course this doesn't work if the bet they make is wrong (see MBP dongles)
SiVal 8y ago
I think the way to think about all of these Apple products is through the lens of what I believe their long-term strategy to be. Apple wants to onboard people into the new Apple ecosystem, which is iToys and backend services. They believe this will be better for you, not just for them. They control the iOS-based world in a way they could never control "computers". They're trying to get as many people as they can into their new Disneyland-ish ecosystem, where everything you do is approved and monitored and everything you buy is bought through them. The low-end Mac seems to only matter now as a source of low-end users, who need carrot and stick to move them off Mac and onto iOS, so low-end Macs won't get better but low-end iOS devices will. I suspect we'll see touchscreen laptops running iOS pretty soon, and that will signal the end of low-end Macs. The high-end Mac users have a better story, because Apple needs developers for their ecosystem, and those people need good tools. I can't imagine Apple being interested in developing dev tools that run on non-Apple devices, and I think they'll want an absolutely guaranteed source of computers with whatever features are needed to develop the best stuff for their ecosystem, so I think a high-end Mac product line will live on with each new version being a bit more iOS-like. If they want to keep the lockdown on iOS while retaining full power to develop for it, they will probably have to keep the less-locked-down macOS going for dev machines for a long time, but things like the Mac Mini have no place in this picture.
- paulcole 8y ago
  Disneyland is fun! What’s wrong with that? Most people aren’t doing anything more than having fun with their “iToys”. I like having fun and I love my iPad. I only ever touch a computer at work and that’s the way I like it.
  - pentae 8y ago
    It's fun but you can't leave the park. If I want to install a 3rd party app on my $1100 iPhone without using the App store i'm shit out of luck. I think it's unacceptable that if I'm paying that much for a phone I have to go to a different brand to get that freedom and flexibility. The App store is great but the consumer should have a choice to install apps without it despite the potential dangers. As an adult, if I want to install a Youporn or casino app on my phone I don't need Apple telling me that's not allowed.
eddieh 8y ago
I would love to use my old Apple TV as mini computer, but there doesn't seem to be a way to jailbreak the 3rd gen Apple TV.
cseelus 8y ago
> Apple TV 4K is tiny compared to a Mac Mini, but judging by Geekbench scores (Mac Mini; iPad Pro, which uses the A10X in the Apple TV) it’s a slightly faster computer than even the maxed-out Mac Mini configuration. Apple TV 4K probably has better GPU performance too. In addition to all the performance problems stemming from the fact that the Mac Mini hasn’t been updated in three years, it’s also inarguable that it’s no longer even “mini”. You could arrange four Apple TV units in a 2 × 2 square and they’d take up the same volume as one Mac Mini. Hadn't thought about that. Would be awesome if it would be possible to run arbitrary software on that little TV box, e.g. use it as a real, powerful (for the size), cheap general purpose personal computer.
- j45 8y ago
  If one could: - run VM's on Apple TV it would be great. - use multiple ATVs, you mighe be able to get around not having 16 GB of ram. Still, 32 GB in an Intel NUC is very attractive.
  - MR4D 8y ago
    I’m cool with just getting Linux on it. Would be like a raspberry pi on steroids!
    - meatmanek 8y ago
      That would be cool, though it's worth pointing out that if you just want a more powerful single-board ARM computer, those exist. Sorry for slideshow, but https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/want-a-more-powerful-raspberry-pi-choose-from-these-20-alternatives/ https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/want-a-more-powerful-r...
      - MR4D 8y ago
        Pretty nice list - thanks!
      - j45 8y ago
        Thanks for the list. The link above had a single page link: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-not-powerful-enough-check-out-these-20-beefy-boards/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-not-powerf...
andybak 8y ago
I haven't read Gruber in a while. Is this as uncharacteristically critical and disappointed as it seems based on my recollection? Or has the ardour been fading on a longer time scale?
- Aaronn 8y ago
  You may have thought of him as overly positive but I never saw that. He has always liked some things and disliked other things.
bengrunfeld 8y ago
Definitely due for a major upgrade. Here's hoping they don't lose interest in it.
NathanCH 8y ago
Can someone explain why Apple computers seemingly only have a 2-3 year lifespan? I've had the "opportunity" of owning three Macs in my life and none of them have lasted more than a couple years. Sure, they work. I gave me Grandma my old iMac and she uses it to this day. But it's impossibly slow, as is my 2015 iMac that I'm writing this on. Restarting this $2500 computer takes several minutes, opening applications takes similar period of time. The computer lags when you open ANY save dialog. Even opening finder takes about 1 second. Meanwhile I also have a five year old Windows PC I built myself, restarts in under 15 seconds. As soon as I see my desktop I can launch any application instantly. I like using OSX but it's fucking slow.
- tssva 8y ago
  My experience is that macOS is similar to how Windows used to be. You have to wipe it out and reinstall it every year or two to get your performance back.
  - Watabou 8y ago
    That is definitely not true. In fact, performance has gotten slightly better for me on my 2013 MacBook Pro, especially after the Metal/APFS upgrade after High Sierra. And I’ve been upgrading since Mavericks now, not doing a clean install.
- Watabou 8y ago
  Does the iMac possibly have a HDD rather than an SSD (which your custom PC probably has)? The SSD makes a huge difference in response time. It’s the only reason I’m still using my 5 year old MacBook Pro which has a PCIe SSD and I have no plans to upgrade other than to maybe get TB3 support. I actually do real development on it, running multiple applications, running Xcode builds, the lot. It does everything I throw at it like a champ. I’m not sure where you’re getting the 2-3 but that’s definitely not what you should be getting from a modern PC/Mac, especially if they have an SSD.
  - NathanCH 8y ago
    Yeah that's correct, the Windows machine has a SSD and the iMac does not. Perhaps I've just forgotten how intolerable HDDs are.
ataturk 8y ago
I had a late 2012 mini that died due to a power spike. I bought a replacement thinking I could move the 16GB of RAM over to it. Man, was I frustrated when I discovered that shit was soldered on in the new ones. WTF Apple? Seriously, WTF? Fix your shit and make it awesome.
bane 8y ago
You want a mini-device that you can also take on the go? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-2-handheld-game-console-for-aaa-games--2#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-2-handheld-game-c... It's about the size of a 3DS, has an Intel Core m3 Kaby Lake dual core 2.6Ghz CPU with integrated GPU, 8GB of RAM and a swappable m.2 SSD. Plus built in screen, keyboard, game controller etc. Has an HDMI port, USB and so on so you can connect it to more comfortable I/O devices when using it from a fixed location. Runs Windows 10 so you can probably get a Linux prompt on it. Weighs 1 pound and can run GTA V at playable speeds, ~$700 or the same as a mid-tier Mac Mini. The same manufacturer also produces a few other pocketable-portables. I think it's important to understand that a no-name manufacturer can do this, Apple should be able to do it as a rounding error in their sleep.
microcolonel 8y ago
The Mac Mini is Maxi because they didn't bother to change the chassis much after removing the optical drive.
psyclobe 8y ago
As much as I like to think apple is really fuct and what not (I mean, I relish seeing them suck lately), fact is they are mere inches away from fixing all of the recent complaints people have had with their products. I'm seriously looking forward to this years macbook refresh, (less so the mini, but its still a cool piece of kit).
aetherspawn 8y ago
The low end Mac isn’t about the hardware. It’s about being the cheapest possible entry level thing required to get the macOS developer experience, ie being able to compile iPhone apps, run Selenium over Safari or whatever. At the end of the day, they aren’t really selling it for the hardware. Otherwise it’d be like 6mm thick, half the footprint and three times as fast.
wodenokoto 8y ago
This guy said this thing 2 month ago, and I said it last year too, so here's an article where I stick those two old posts together. Enjoy!
314 8y ago
I've just finished doing something similar. My mac mini was from 2011 and the harddisk had just died. It was an awkward year in that an SSD can be fitted to replace the mechanical drive, but it would be limited to half-speed on the controller. The replacement is a NUC from last year (NUC7i5BNK), but there did not seem to be any point installing macos on it - over the years Apple seem to have crammed in a lot of stuff that I don't like and made it much worse as a small cheap unix workstation. It's running FreeBSD instead and the difference in size / performance / efficiency is remarkable. It's sad that Apple have let the mac mini line die such a slow protracted death, but unless you are determined to be walled inside Apple's ecosystem there is very little reason to get one.
deleted 8y ago
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willfiveash 8y ago
Man, in the last couple of years I've been counting myself lucky in that I bought a late 2012 Mini with the fastest i7 offered. It appears to be downhill for the Mini from then on.

380 points by okket 8y ago

giancarlostoro 8y ago

This is sad I still await the Mac Mini being properly updated. Please Apple do not disappoint...

wahern 8y ago
I'm still using my 4-core, mid-2011 Mini. Aside from the poorly supported graphics hardware--video playback in Chrome, etc has inexplicably taken up more CPU over the years, I guess because lazy developers increasingly depend on more modern CPU and GPU features--I have no reason to upgrade and nothing enticing to upgrade to. It seems my mini won't be supported for macOS 10.14, and I have no idea what I'll do. I'm also still hanging onto my Macbook Air, which to me is the epitome of laptop design.
- jrs95 8y ago
  You probably don't have hardware level support for the VP9 codec, when YouTube switched to that my laptop at the time would run it's fans at 100% just to play a video.
  - ksk 8y ago
    I remember playing DVDs on 20-ish year old hardware. Even without a hardware decoder, I can't imagine how a modern CPU is unable to handle simple tasks like video decoding. Maybe its the higher bitrate..
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - jdietrich 8y ago
      >Maybe its the higher bitrate.. An HD Netflix stream has about the same bitrate as a DVD, but has drastically better image quality. Modern codecs are extremely efficient in terms of bandwidth, but that comes at the cost of computational complexity. Decoding HEVC or VP9 is far from a simple task; hardware acceleration of video decoding is absolutely crucial for power-constrained devices like smartphones and laptops.
      - ksk 8y ago
        > Modern codecs are extremely efficient in terms of bandwidth, but that comes at the cost of computational complexity Right, but as with every codec, the cost is always heavily skewed towards encoding the stream. >Decoding HEVC or VP9 is far from a simple task; hardware acceleration of video decoding is absolutely crucial for power-constrained devices like smartphones and laptops. I don't believe that decoding video streams should come anywhere close to saturating a modern CPU in 2018. The hardware acceleration you mentioned isn't magic, and doesn't use any crazy tech either. Its going to be some kind of low powered ARM chip on MediaTek SoCs like the MT8581.
- fetus8 8y ago
  I'm still rocking my mid-2012 Mini that I upgraded to 16GB RAM and an SSD, luckily I'm getting 10.14, but otherwise I also see zero reason to upgrade my desktop Mac atm. This machine has been more than powerful for most tasks I've thrown at it, and it still runs like a dream. If Apple were to actually upgrade/update the Mini with new CPUs and a smaller form factor, I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade finally. Those Intel NUCs are starting to get real appealing to me, but I'm not ready to jump to Windows or Linux for my home machines...
  - j45 8y ago
    Mind sharing which SSD you used? I'm on the fence of updating my 2012 mini like yours or move to a NUC but not be able to upgrade it. Might be worth just riding it out until the next Mac mini that runs on A* cpu's instead arrives.
    - Tempest1981 8y ago
      I upgraded a 2012 Mini with a 240GB SanDisk [0]. It wasn't too bad, but watch the YouTube videos first. (And, as noted above, the 2014 may be trickier.) [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M8ABEIM https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M8ABEIM
      - j45 8y ago
        Thanks! Seems like a good way to get some time out of this. Just have to keep in mind when Apple may EOL the MacOS/Security updates.
- givinguflac 8y ago
  It’s not inexplicable, it’s chrome :).
- oblib 8y ago
  I'm still using a late `09 mini with 8GB ram and an SSD drive. It's still working fine for web app dev work. This has been the best Mac I've ever owned. I would love to see a new Mac Mini come out and I've been ready to buy one and waiting on them to announce the new models for awhile now. That said, I'm ready to move over to a Linux Desktop now if Apple ditches the product entirely. I don't want to, but I know I'll do fine with it.
  - MisterOctober 8y ago
    I was a Mac user for ever 20 years -- finally ditched it a few weeks ago [for Linux] after getting fed up with their daft shenanigans. The whole App Store / iTunes archipelago, the willful rejection of expandable and [easily] user-serviceable hardware design in favor of a 'form before function' approach, the related planned obsolescence strategy [e.g., older hardware simply will not run recent software; new OS breaks older 3-party software], and the ghastly overpricing were among the factors that drove me off. Mainly, I liked MacOS because I prefer putting work into projects as opposed to maintaining my own system, and MacOS "just works," until it doesn't. These days though, I run an idiotresistant distribution of Linux on my productivity machine, a minimal one on my 'learning' machine, and am generally more content. Also, running Linux, I feel less like I'm directly interfacing with a villain from 'Black Mirror'
    - LiNeXT 8y ago
      I get it. I've been using Macs for 25+ years and I recently installed a Linux distro with KDE on my Mac in preparation for the ThinkPad I ordered after much deliberation (in lieu of getting one of those crappy "touch bar" MacBook Pros) on which I planned to run Linux while staying on MacOS on the Mac. I am almost certain now that I'm going to stick with Linux across the board on both machines. KDE suits me quite well. It's been a death by a thousand cuts staying with Apple these past few years. iOS is completely locked down (and shows no signs of relenting) and I only see them moving MacOS in the same direction. Their sub-par, insulting hardware offerings only further cement my view that they no longer give a crap about what the Mac used to be. So, like you, I'm out. It was a fun ride. I've been on-board since System 7.
notadoc 8y ago
It hasn't been updated for 4 years. If your spouse left you 4 years ago, would you still be waiting for them?
- coldtea 8y ago
  Spouses don't get normally updated every 1-2 years either. So the similarity is not exactly apt...
- Applejinx 8y ago
  I would not marry my Mac, though I love it. The ports are not compatible.
gaius 8y ago
They crippled the Mac Mini (which was quad-core, 2 drive bays and upgradeable memory) to try and drive people onto the Mac Pro, when the Mini was a perfect machine for many workloads. Then of course they abandoned the Pro. So I wouldn’t hold your breath. Meanwhile see https://press.ext.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2016/hp-unveils-industrys-first-ever-mini-workstation.html https://press.ext.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2016/hp-unveil... for what others were doing in that form factor 2 years ago...
- strictnein 8y ago
  And what Intel will sell you starting at $799: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12226/intels-hades-canyon-nucs-with-radeon-graphics-are-official-799999-shipping-in-spring-2018 https://www.anandtech.com/show/12226/intels-hades-canyon-nuc... The number of ports on that thing is crazy. Two displayport 1.3 and two thunderbolt 3 ports, to start with. https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12226/front_back_575px.png https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12226/front_back_575px.png
- michrassena 8y ago
  It's been a number of years (the Intel NUC was a new product) since our office bought its first Mac mini. At that time, it was the only product that fit the requirements of size, performance and cooling, and even then was cheaper than many alternatives which weren't as good a fit. Today, there are quite a number of products, including gamer or workstation-class machines, in this form factor. What was once exotic for its compactness is a commodity. All-the-while, Apple has kept this product at a near-standstill. Almost certainly they're worried about cannibalizing their iMac line, or even the Mac Pro line. Given the level of innovation that has take place over the last five years, the remarkable thinness of laptops which Apple helped pioneer beginning with the Air, why aren't they putting out a Mac mini the size and thickness of a slice of bread?
  - gaius 8y ago
    That kind of thinking boggles my mind “we know people want X, which we make, so we’ll avoid making it so they’ll buy Y instead”.

nextos 8y ago

I can't understand why Apple doesn't make a fanless Mini. There's a respectable market for fanless NUCs, and the original Mini was a great machine. Plus, it's a cheap entry level to the Apple ecosystem.

jimmies 8y ago
Recently I have been contemplating getting an Apple machine at home just for Keynote, Pages, iMovie, Counter-Strike, iMessage/Facetime (and Photoshop, perhaps?), which I don't get on my low-powered Linux laptop. I've been using a Hackintosh-on-KVM kinda solution and it works OK for the most part even with my dedicated GPU, but not ideal and I'd be happy to convert to the light side to enjoy seamless upgrades and stuff. I don't want to shell out like $1200 for a dumb macbook that I don't use, but I would be happy to shell out $500 for a Keynote machine. For me, Keynote/Pages are the killer apps that only macOS has. iMessage/FT is the killer app that the Apple ecosystem has. Having a cheap entry to them is a great idea.
- mathnmusic 8y ago
  Just today, I quickly created a slideshow by writing markdown using Marp and loved the experience. I'm guessing this will become my new workflow for making slides. https://yhatt.github.io/marp/ https://yhatt.github.io/marp/
  - jimmies 8y ago
    I've been a LaTEX/Markdown person for years before converting to Powerpoint/Keynote. If you want your slides to be minimal and clean and you don't have a lot of time to do, then Markdown works. To me, over time I am convinced that having the ability to do animations to explain technical ideas is great. While it's not impossible to do fly in/out/moving animations in LaTEX, presentation software makes it ten times easier to maintain. I think that not everything is best explained in code. Sometimes you need pictures/animations to convey the ideas.
    - mathnmusic 8y ago

twerkmonsta 8y ago

Doesn't this all feed into the idea that Apple is ditching x86/x64 and going full ARM? It would make sense that the Apple TV is so much more powerful considering Apple pours so much into custom ARM chip design and OS development. MacOS doesn't work on ARM, and it doesn't seem like Apple is interested in porting it. Seems more likely the new Mini, if there ever is one, would be ARM based.

notadoc 8y ago
> Doesn't this all feed into the idea that Apple is ditching Mac and going full iOS? FTFY
- komon 8y ago
  This theory actually got Jossed in light of this year's WWDC keynote
  - notadoc 8y ago
    Sounds familiar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPAsWAcmrlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPAsWAcmrlE https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jul/19/ipad-prototype-ive-2002 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jul/19/ipad-prot... Apple has a history of denying something until it is working to their satisfaction.
    - kgermino 8y ago
      That doesn’t seem like the best example. I’m not sure what the context was for that video, hit it doesn’t look like Steve said that tablets would fail. He said that a tablet made in that era would only be useful to rich people who want an extra device just for content consumption. That’s still most of the market for tablets today.
      - gowld 8y ago
        That's the point. Apple generally doesn't make forward-looking statements about its tech. They say that everything they don't do yet is wrong, and when they get it working they say it's so right. The "right now" part is implied.

agumonkey 8y ago

apple desktop lineup is such a mess..

wilsonnb2 8y ago
Eh. No one every really complains about the iMac, which makes up most of their desktop offering.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ropeadopepope 8y ago
  Do you have a source on that? I never hear about iMacs, which makes me assume nobody uses them.
  - nicky0 8y ago
    Hmm
  - oarsinsync 8y ago
    Not the GP, no source, but anecdotally, I see lots and lots of design related offices around London littered with iMacs everywhere. Dunno if they like them, but they certainly use them.
  - macintux 8y ago
    Mac sales are pretty good relative to the overall market. iMacs are almost definitely a minority compared to laptops (Apple doesn't break out sales by model), but since Apple is selling somewhere north of 10 million Macs/year, there have to be several million iMacs in active use.
  - jakobegger 8y ago
    I've just looked at some statistics from update checks from Postico, a database app used mostly by web developers. - 93% of my customers have a laptop - 70% of desktop users have an iMac Graphs: https://imgur.com/a/H0N0BZy https://imgur.com/a/H0N0BZy

mb_72 8y ago

I've got an 2011-era Mac Mini that I've loved for developing - updated to 8GB of RAM + an SSD, it's been a great Xamarin machine for years. However now I'm looking for a replacement as Mojave won't support the hardware. With the dated Mac Mini and reports of many keyboard issues on Macbook Pros I'm looking at a Mac Air for a new development machine - and even these are getting a bit long in the tooth. Not really sure what Apple is up to these days.

gm-conspiracy 8y ago
It is really sad there is no equivalent for a 7 year old device. Is a Hackintosh an option for Mojave?
- ShabbosGoy 8y ago
  It seems like Apple has given up on desktops entirely. OSX lags unbearably when performing normal workloads. Forget about running Xcode or a CPU intensive workload, your machine will freeze due to excessive memory leaks and swapping. It is an issue at the framework level, and I say that because all software written for OSX has to use a set of common frameworks to interface with the OS itself.
- nyreed 8y ago
  People usually have success in getting newer OS versions running on formally unsupported macs.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    I doubt this will work for Mojave, since I believe everything was written using Metal.
ovao 8y ago
I still really like the iMac. While it doesn’t quite get the attention it deserves, it’s still a legitimately great machine. Overall, it may be the best machine Apple makes right now. I’m not all that fond of the Magic Keyboard (mine failed after a completely minor spill), but that’s an easy enough fix.

kwijibob 8y ago

My main work and home "PC"s are Mac Minis running Ubuntu. They are fantastic, beautiful and small machines that have worked reliably for 6-7 years. (as has Ubuntu!) At the time of purchase the Mac Mini was the best combination of small size and still fairly decent CPU/GPU firepower. I also have upgraded them to full SSD and 8gig ram. Of course, I will get a NUC whenever they need replacing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon...

dman 8y ago

He could have rewritten the last sentence from "They just seem to have lost any interest in making one that runs MacOS." to "They just seem to have lost any interest in MacOS.".

dragonshed 8y ago

I (might have) had a similar experience to the author, but instead with an earlier skylake model of the Intel NUCs. The only issue I (in theory) had was the predictably slow graphical performance due to the lack of a GPU. Ultimately I chose to keep using an older macbook pro as my main driver and installed linux to run things that were too slow for Vagrant/VMs. [Edit] Upon reflecting on this article and my (theoretical) experience, I'm going to do a little reading into how well supported AMD APUs are (i.e. Ryzen 5 2400g).

adsfgionioni 8y ago

Geekbench is pretty much useless, especially across architectures and OSes. It claims a maybe three-watt iPhone CPU can beat a 40-watt Ryzen 1200, which is plainly ridiculous. Apple makes a good CPU, but you'd have to be crazy to think they have beaten the competition by a factor of ten in power consumption with no compromise. When you see something incredible, be incredulous. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2051 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2051 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/50 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/50 Does anyone know of a decent iPhone benchmark? I'd be very interested in comparing their hardware to other CPUs, but none of the benchmarks I know run on iPhones. And the people who know what they're doing, e.g. Phoronix, don't test much mobile hardware.

zitterbewegung 8y ago
Geek bench does not perform long running tasks where you would observe thermal throttling . So a gaming benchmark would work. 3dmark ? https://benchmarks.ul.com/3dmark https://benchmarks.ul.com/3dmark
- adsfgionioni 8y ago
  Not testing thermal throttling is fine. Often CPU tests are done with overkill cooling specifically to take throttling out of the picture.
dljsjr 8y ago
FWIW You can review the methodology that they use here: https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench4-cpu-workloads.pdf https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench4-cpu-workloads.pdf They don't provide source though. That's a detriment. It would be nice if their benchmarks were publicly audit-able.
amatheus 8y ago
Are geekbench scores meant to be used comparing different CPUs architectures like that? I thought they only made sense when comparing already similar processors.
8y ago

dmitriid 8y ago

> "They just seem to have lost any interest in making one that runs MacOS." Sadly, I believe that this statement is true not just for Mac Mini, but for the whole "pro"/desktop line of computers.

edvinbesic 8y ago

This will come across as nit-picky but this: > Calling the Mac Mini “mini” is absurd in 2018. doesn't make much sense. Mini is not an absolute unit of measurement, and the mac mini is still the smallest mac you can buy. The rest of it I agree with though and am patiently awaiting for a new mini or a better pro.

elicash 8y ago
The writer didn't say it was absolute. A huge part of the piece was comparing to Apple TV.

andrewstuart 8y ago

The thing that annoys me most is that Apple won't say that this product is dead, or if it is not dead then I'm even more annoyed at how long it takes to update.

gowld 8y ago
What does dead mean? You can buy one, and it will be supported for several years. The lack of a new one doesn't make the old one dead.
- andrewstuart 8y ago
  It's dead if it is not a product that will be updated. That's the definition of dead for any line of computer products - sure you might be able to buy one now, but if there are no more iterations coming then the product (line) is dead.
  - adrianratnapala 8y ago
    As old time MS-DOS loving Never Appler, I don't get this. Every few years, if I need a new computer, I look at the options and then I buy or build one that meets my needs. What does it matter if the vendor is going to, or not going to, offer a similar-but-updated one in a few years?
    - andrewstuart 8y ago
      I was a die hard Microsoft lover for many many years. OSX is a much better operating system than Windows. So Im stuck with buying from Apple and Mac Mini was their entry level cost machine, that's why it matters.
      - ksk 8y ago
        But realistically, when has Apple guaranteed anything about future products? Even if they released a newer version of the mini, you might hate it because they changed something you like.

Jyaif 8y ago

Translation: Apple is going to release a smaller mac.

emisario 8y ago

"But the striking thing to me is just how much smaller the Intel NUC is." Add the volume of the NUC's hideous and ungainly power supply brick. Then make your judgement on size. If you've taken a mini apart, you'd see that the easiest way volume could be significantly reduced is by replacing the space for two 3.5" drives with space for one modern NVME gum stick - a trick which the already NUC does thanks to its being developed more recently. The mini has Thunderbolt and and digital audio in/out. The NUC has neither of these. If you compare the interior of the mini and the NUC, the NUC does not stand out as an marvel of engineering or miniaturization. Anyway, whose desk cannot fit a mac mini?

JasonFruit 8y ago
I've seen many a power brick in my time, and some were ugly, but hideous seems excessive even for the worst of them.
derefr 8y ago
It's not about desks, really. Sufficiently-small-form-factor computers become "AIO enablement dongles", in the sense that you can stick one to the back of a monitor or TV (much like a "compute stick") and now that monitor or TV is an AIO PC. People use NUCs in that use-case quite a lot. Sufficiently-SFF computers are also used as kiosks, for POS systems, and other embedded use-cases. This isn't really the "pitch" behind the Mac Mini, but it's something the NUC is quite good at.
arthurfm 8y ago
> The mini has Thunderbolt and and digital audio in/out. The NUC has neither of these. The NUC I am using at the moment (a NUC7I5BNK) has Thunderbolt 3. The current Mac mini is stuck with Thunderbolt 2 and doesn't have any USB-C ports either.
freeone3000 8y ago
The Intel NUC has a VESA bracket, so you can mount your monitor to the NUC. Who needs a desk, you've now got an All-In-One.
nottorp 8y ago

imagetic 8y ago

I think I have about about 20 Mac Mini's for various roles around my office. Probably the most used computers / servers in our entire environment. They're starting to show their age though. One by one they are being retired.

JetSetWilly 8y ago

> I don’t expect that Apple would make a box quite this ugly—those two USB ports on the front of the case would be the first to go That's what's annoying about Apple hardware and great about PCs in a nutshell: the constant need to put facile design looks above actual usability. Why should I have to fiddle around the back every time I want to plug or unplug a usb device?

userbinator 8y ago
Indeed, to the contrary I find the Apple aesthetic of making products that look like featureless blobs with an apple logo on them to be bland and ugly, but I suppose it fits with their direction of locked-down devices and fostering ignorance: the less the user can do with it, and the more control Apple has over what the user does, the better. It's disappointing to see only 4 USB ports on the high-end Mac Pro, when high-end PC motherboards are available with double-digit numbers of USB ports. Related: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/backwardspc.html http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/backwardspc.html
- JeremyBanks 8y ago
  Nobody is defending the Mac Pro. Even Apple has, in a step almost unheard of for them, admitted that the current Mac Pro was a mistake, and promised its replacement will be very different and more extensible. Aside from that: enjoy your botnets.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  You can always add dozens more USB ports with a powered hub. 6 Thunderbolt ports is unheard of however and provides great connectivity that you can't add after the fact, even on DIY PCs.
rtpg 8y ago
There's a bit of a bet going on in Apple's mindset. For most people, USB drives are no longer a thing (Dropbox, mail-to-self, etc.), so why put ports in the front? If they're in the back you can set up your keyboard cable or w/e nicely and keep those out of the way. _If_ your USB usage is not 'often plugging/unplugging stuff into the port', then having the ports in the back is better for usability and the like. Of course this doesn't work if the bet they make is wrong (see MBP dongles)

SiVal 8y ago

I think the way to think about all of these Apple products is through the lens of what I believe their long-term strategy to be. Apple wants to onboard people into the new Apple ecosystem, which is iToys and backend services. They believe this will be better for you, not just for them. They control the iOS-based world in a way they could never control "computers". They're trying to get as many people as they can into their new Disneyland-ish ecosystem, where everything you do is approved and monitored and everything you buy is bought through them. The low-end Mac seems to only matter now as a source of low-end users, who need carrot and stick to move them off Mac and onto iOS, so low-end Macs won't get better but low-end iOS devices will. I suspect we'll see touchscreen laptops running iOS pretty soon, and that will signal the end of low-end Macs. The high-end Mac users have a better story, because Apple needs developers for their ecosystem, and those people need good tools. I can't imagine Apple being interested in developing dev tools that run on non-Apple devices, and I think they'll want an absolutely guaranteed source of computers with whatever features are needed to develop the best stuff for their ecosystem, so I think a high-end Mac product line will live on with each new version being a bit more iOS-like. If they want to keep the lockdown on iOS while retaining full power to develop for it, they will probably have to keep the less-locked-down macOS going for dev machines for a long time, but things like the Mac Mini have no place in this picture.

paulcole 8y ago
Disneyland is fun! What’s wrong with that? Most people aren’t doing anything more than having fun with their “iToys”. I like having fun and I love my iPad. I only ever touch a computer at work and that’s the way I like it.
- pentae 8y ago
  It's fun but you can't leave the park. If I want to install a 3rd party app on my $1100 iPhone without using the App store i'm shit out of luck. I think it's unacceptable that if I'm paying that much for a phone I have to go to a different brand to get that freedom and flexibility. The App store is great but the consumer should have a choice to install apps without it despite the potential dangers. As an adult, if I want to install a Youporn or casino app on my phone I don't need Apple telling me that's not allowed.

eddieh 8y ago

I would love to use my old Apple TV as mini computer, but there doesn't seem to be a way to jailbreak the 3rd gen Apple TV.

cseelus 8y ago

> Apple TV 4K is tiny compared to a Mac Mini, but judging by Geekbench scores (Mac Mini; iPad Pro, which uses the A10X in the Apple TV) it’s a slightly faster computer than even the maxed-out Mac Mini configuration. Apple TV 4K probably has better GPU performance too. In addition to all the performance problems stemming from the fact that the Mac Mini hasn’t been updated in three years, it’s also inarguable that it’s no longer even “mini”. You could arrange four Apple TV units in a 2 × 2 square and they’d take up the same volume as one Mac Mini. Hadn't thought about that. Would be awesome if it would be possible to run arbitrary software on that little TV box, e.g. use it as a real, powerful (for the size), cheap general purpose personal computer.

j45 8y ago
If one could: - run VM's on Apple TV it would be great. - use multiple ATVs, you mighe be able to get around not having 16 GB of ram. Still, 32 GB in an Intel NUC is very attractive.
- MR4D 8y ago
  I’m cool with just getting Linux on it. Would be like a raspberry pi on steroids!
  - meatmanek 8y ago
    That would be cool, though it's worth pointing out that if you just want a more powerful single-board ARM computer, those exist. Sorry for slideshow, but https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/want-a-more-powerful-raspberry-pi-choose-from-these-20-alternatives/ https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/want-a-more-powerful-r...
    - MR4D 8y ago
      Pretty nice list - thanks!
    - j45 8y ago
      Thanks for the list. The link above had a single page link: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-not-powerful-enough-check-out-these-20-beefy-boards/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-not-powerf...

andybak 8y ago

I haven't read Gruber in a while. Is this as uncharacteristically critical and disappointed as it seems based on my recollection? Or has the ardour been fading on a longer time scale?

Aaronn 8y ago
You may have thought of him as overly positive but I never saw that. He has always liked some things and disliked other things.

bengrunfeld 8y ago

Definitely due for a major upgrade. Here's hoping they don't lose interest in it.

NathanCH 8y ago

Can someone explain why Apple computers seemingly only have a 2-3 year lifespan? I've had the "opportunity" of owning three Macs in my life and none of them have lasted more than a couple years. Sure, they work. I gave me Grandma my old iMac and she uses it to this day. But it's impossibly slow, as is my 2015 iMac that I'm writing this on. Restarting this $2500 computer takes several minutes, opening applications takes similar period of time. The computer lags when you open ANY save dialog. Even opening finder takes about 1 second. Meanwhile I also have a five year old Windows PC I built myself, restarts in under 15 seconds. As soon as I see my desktop I can launch any application instantly. I like using OSX but it's fucking slow.

tssva 8y ago
My experience is that macOS is similar to how Windows used to be. You have to wipe it out and reinstall it every year or two to get your performance back.
- Watabou 8y ago
  That is definitely not true. In fact, performance has gotten slightly better for me on my 2013 MacBook Pro, especially after the Metal/APFS upgrade after High Sierra. And I’ve been upgrading since Mavericks now, not doing a clean install.
Watabou 8y ago
Does the iMac possibly have a HDD rather than an SSD (which your custom PC probably has)? The SSD makes a huge difference in response time. It’s the only reason I’m still using my 5 year old MacBook Pro which has a PCIe SSD and I have no plans to upgrade other than to maybe get TB3 support. I actually do real development on it, running multiple applications, running Xcode builds, the lot. It does everything I throw at it like a champ. I’m not sure where you’re getting the 2-3 but that’s definitely not what you should be getting from a modern PC/Mac, especially if they have an SSD.
- NathanCH 8y ago
  Yeah that's correct, the Windows machine has a SSD and the iMac does not. Perhaps I've just forgotten how intolerable HDDs are.

ataturk 8y ago

I had a late 2012 mini that died due to a power spike. I bought a replacement thinking I could move the 16GB of RAM over to it. Man, was I frustrated when I discovered that shit was soldered on in the new ones. WTF Apple? Seriously, WTF? Fix your shit and make it awesome.

bane 8y ago

You want a mini-device that you can also take on the go? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-2-handheld-game-console-for-aaa-games--2#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-2-handheld-game-c... It's about the size of a 3DS, has an Intel Core m3 Kaby Lake dual core 2.6Ghz CPU with integrated GPU, 8GB of RAM and a swappable m.2 SSD. Plus built in screen, keyboard, game controller etc. Has an HDMI port, USB and so on so you can connect it to more comfortable I/O devices when using it from a fixed location. Runs Windows 10 so you can probably get a Linux prompt on it. Weighs 1 pound and can run GTA V at playable speeds, ~$700 or the same as a mid-tier Mac Mini. The same manufacturer also produces a few other pocketable-portables. I think it's important to understand that a no-name manufacturer can do this, Apple should be able to do it as a rounding error in their sleep.

microcolonel 8y ago

The Mac Mini is Maxi because they didn't bother to change the chassis much after removing the optical drive.

psyclobe 8y ago

As much as I like to think apple is really fuct and what not (I mean, I relish seeing them suck lately), fact is they are mere inches away from fixing all of the recent complaints people have had with their products. I'm seriously looking forward to this years macbook refresh, (less so the mini, but its still a cool piece of kit).

aetherspawn 8y ago

The low end Mac isn’t about the hardware. It’s about being the cheapest possible entry level thing required to get the macOS developer experience, ie being able to compile iPhone apps, run Selenium over Safari or whatever. At the end of the day, they aren’t really selling it for the hardware. Otherwise it’d be like 6mm thick, half the footprint and three times as fast.

wodenokoto 8y ago

This guy said this thing 2 month ago, and I said it last year too, so here's an article where I stick those two old posts together. Enjoy!

314 8y ago

I've just finished doing something similar. My mac mini was from 2011 and the harddisk had just died. It was an awkward year in that an SSD can be fitted to replace the mechanical drive, but it would be limited to half-speed on the controller. The replacement is a NUC from last year (NUC7i5BNK), but there did not seem to be any point installing macos on it - over the years Apple seem to have crammed in a lot of stuff that I don't like and made it much worse as a small cheap unix workstation. It's running FreeBSD instead and the difference in size / performance / efficiency is remarkable. It's sad that Apple have let the mac mini line die such a slow protracted death, but unless you are determined to be walled inside Apple's ecosystem there is very little reason to get one.

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willfiveash 8y ago

Man, in the last couple of years I've been counting myself lucky in that I bought a late 2012 Mini with the fastest i7 offered. It appears to be downhill for the Mini from then on.