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Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’
- LUmBULtERA 8y agoThey've just made a huge mistake. Upset the hardcore gamers market to stop essentially a remote desktop app?
- rafadc 8y agoI guess the problem is the store. The app allows to access valve's store (which is far cheaper than games in the apple store). If they remove the ability to buy games I am sure the remote desktop app would be ok. I am guessing anyway
- knolan 8y agoAnd yet the Steam Store app is available on the iOS App Store. This is a very strange decision.
- bantunes 8y agoIt's a fluff app for messaging and so on, no actual gaming.
- AlexandrB 8y agoYes, but it allows access to the store - directly contradicting rafadc's theory.
- Zircom 8y agoThe difference is in the steam store app doesn't actually enable you to play the games on the phone itself, while the steam link app will let you do exactly that.
- falsedan 8y ago> so TeamViewer, Remote Desktop etc. are all banned
- LiquidFlux 8y agoIf they were wrapped up in a single package that was marketed towards buying and playing those games, using the same logic they quite probably would be.
- tyfon 8y agoI don't have any apple products, however can you buy a RDC app and remote to windows and buy apps in the windows store?
- Ragnarork 8y agoI have a hard time with this explanation, as the Steam Store is already available through the iOS Steam app which is available on the Apple app store.
- JetSetWilly 8y agoYou can't buy games using the Steam Store app.
- falsedan 8y agoThe Steam app? You sure as heck can buy games through it.
- icecreammatt 8y agoYou can buy games with the existing Steam app. I do it all the time during the sales.
- JetSetWilly 8y agoMy bad, I remember trying to before and being unable to, I just assumed it would be the same situation as the kindle app.
- boterock 8y agoYou can't buy games that are in the iOS store from within the Steam app
- LiquidFlux 8y agoI'm assuming it could be relating to the inability to play a game you've just bought, if limited to just the Steam Store app. That alone isn't exactly competition against the first-party's store.
- Orphis 8y agoYou know what let's me access the Steam store (and many others)? Any VNC client to my other computer. Or just the regular Steam app. Check the screenshot page on the AppStore and you'll see the store with prices and all.
- izacus 8y agoWait so TeamViewer, Remote Desktop etc. are all banned in the Apple world because I can use them to buy things from other stores?
- AsyncAwait 8y agoValve has said that they disabled the store and got blocked anyway.
- kabdib 8y agoThe ability to buy games was removed from the Steam Link app.
- skc 8y agoI doubt there is much overlap between the hardcore gamer market and Apple anyway.
- asfasgasg 8y agoOn the contrary. If you care about the intersection of gaming and mobile, you are almost certainly using an iOS device.
- sidlls 8y agoThe intersection of the set of "intersection of gaming and mobile" and the set of "hardcore gamers" is small.
- OrganicMSG 8y agoI know a few of them, they are all game developers.
- bovermyer 8y agoEvery single one of the hardcore gamers that I know is dismissive of mobile games, at best.
- yvdriess 8y agoPlenty of overlap. Ipad stream-gaming on the couch while the wife watches TV, for example.
- zkomp 8y agoYes yes and yes. So now it is totally possible, you just must avoid iPads (face palm) Essentialy Apple want force me buy some android tablet, smart move...
- dkersten 8y agoAs someone who loves his iPad, this makes me sad. It’s not enough for me to abandon it but it’ll definitely make the upgrade decision tougher when the time comes. Does iPad even support Xbox1/PS4/steam controllers? Last time I checked, at least PS4 gamepads did not work on ios. Without those (certainly Xbox and PS4 ones), I’m not sure I’d want to stream games onto an iPad anyway (not that this makes it better, if anything it makes it worse).
- salvar 8y agoHow are you expecting the hardcore gamers market to retaliate against Apple?
- jenscow 8y agoThey will post on forums threatening to throw their iPhones away.
- usrusr 8y agoAngering gamers might not be all that bad though, as it would bolster the "Apple is for serious creative work" part of their brand identity.
- jannes 8y agoMaybe some mid-level manager at Apple is trying to get a promotion with this. "Look at how loyal and useful I am to the company. I saw this revenue-threatening thing in the news and I killed it."
- gigatexal 8y agoApple is wrong here.
- baxtr 8y agoI don’t think this will last for long...
- philo23 8y agoI don't actually see it happening, but it'd be nice if Valve just released the source code and let people compile it for themselves. I don't think there's any "secret sauce" in the Steam in-home streaming that's actually proprietary/private. It's just a H264 video stream in one direction and controller button presses in the other, over a custom made low latency protocol. Given Apple and Valve seemed to be working together to bring VR to the Mac recently, I'm surprised they weren't given any leeway at all.
- MrBuddyCasino 8y agoTheres even an open-source version in Java called Moonlight or so.
- acous 8y agoI believe Moonlight uses Nvidia's GameStream protocol, so it's not quite the same (you need an Nvidia card to use it).
- MrBuddyCasino 8y agoYou're right, I confused those two.
- swebs 8y agoWow, when trying to access this from the EU, I'm blocked by this huge pop-up telling me to either accept their tracking or fuck off. The cookie policy makes no mention on how to access the site without clicking "I accept", it just directs you to optout.aboutads.info. https://i.imgur.com/dK73MUi.png https://i.imgur.com/dK73MUi.png Is this really GDPR compliant?
- orixilus 8y agoI tried to see your image, but I get another popup :D https://ibb.co/mO99fo https://ibb.co/mO99fo
- zingmars 8y agoIf you have JS disabled (or use noscript or umatrix or similar addons) you can just scroll down without needing to accept anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- the_mitsuhiko 8y agoIt’s one if the worst I have seen. There is no way not to accept this. I can’t see how this is permitted.
- AlexandrB 8y agoMeanwhile the headlining article is "NO ONE’S READY FOR GDPR". The irony is palpable.
- the_mitsuhiko 8y agoI can’t even read the privacy policy without accepting the prompt.
- morsch 8y agoOn the bright side, it made me find out that ublock's block element feature is really easy to use. Even works on mobile!
- g_lined 8y ago
- stephenr 8y agoCan someone please update this to the canonical non-amp URL: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/24/17392470/apple-rejects-valve-steam-link-app-store-ios-game-steaming https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/24/17392470/apple-rejects-va... Apart from not supporting googles effort to control the web, the amp page loads slower than the original and has a ridiculous “cookie agreement” with a button that doesn’t work.
- tokenizerrr 8y agoThis page is hosted by the verge themselves so has absolutely nothing to do with Google trying to control the web. It also does not load slower.
- stephenr 8y agoThe concept of amp is google trying to control the web. Also, my understanding is that all amp pages have to load the required js from an amp project cdn, which is ultimately a google cdn. And yes, it most definitely does load slower for me - I have nothing but a blank white page for several seconds.
- criley2 8y ago>And yes, it most definitely does load slower for me - I have nothing but a blank white page for several seconds. This is quite obviously an error state, likely caused by an extension of yours. Have you tried using Amp in a fresh install of a different browser? Using different network settings? It seems very likely that you are the reason amp doesn't work for you. And this is coming from an amp hater.
- stephenr 8y ago> Have you tried using Amp in a fresh install of a different browser? Why on earth would I do that? I’m not trying to fix googles broken shit, I’m trying to read a fucking web page, and as it happens the original webpage loads just fine, and ridiculously fast. So again? Why bother? With amp at all I mean. When a company says “we want to make pages load faster on mobile” and their first result is “ok just load up this extra javascript” you should realise that their stated goal is not their actual goal. Web pages can be fast without amp, and load times can be measured. There is zero technical reason google needed to push amp on the world using worse search result rankings as the threat for non compliance. So, tell me again how this is my fucking fault.
- tracker1 8y agoApple, pissing off game developers since 1976.
- mihaifm 8y agoAlso nobody seems to care about the app developers who probably spent months developing this app, to see it go to waste over a bussiness decision.
- toomuchgov 8y agoGet used to building sandcastles.
- richmarr 8y agoWhile I'm a bit sympathetic with the devs here, they got paid, and this was always going to be a risky proposition. They must have known that. Adding the 3rd largest app store in the US to iOS was always going to be a seizmic shift on the App Store and could cannibalise large parts of the iOS game category.
- chrisper 8y agoMaybe it is because Steve Jobs didn't like games. https://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/john-carmack-steve-jobs-hates-games/1/ https://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/john-carmack-steve-jobs...
- op00to 8y agoHere's the feedback link to tell Apple this is a total bullshit decision: https://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html https://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html
- Tepix 8y agoChoose "request an app" there.
- mwnivek 8y agoPrevious discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17149470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17149470
- pjc50 8y agoI've been waiting for a company of this to just go full litigation as a result of something like this. The lack of a premium "please give us a representative we can negotiate this with and get an actual explanation from" tier is a serious problem.
- gehsty 8y agoI am not really suprised by this, buying games and then play them outside of the appstore is not exactly in the spirit of the apples guidelines. This is clearly different from a remote desktop app. I'm 100% sure this would be allowed back in if they built it without the ability to make purchases... Not saying I agree with it but a Company such as Valve should know this is going to happen.
- stalf 8y agoApparently, Valve told Reuters it had disabled the in-app purchase options, and still got canned. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-apple-steam/apple-blocks-steams-plan-to-extend-its-video-games-to-iphones-idUKKCN1IQ09D https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-apple-steam/apple-blocks-s...
- DRW_ 8y agoThe thing is, Apple does allow this sort of thing. Look at apps like Google Play Movies. You can't buy or rent from within the app, so google doesn't get their cut - you can only buy and rent from google play movies on the website, thus bypassing Apple entirely. You can then play that content within the iOS app. All in direct competition with iTunes.
- gehsty 8y agoThat’s what I’m saying, it would be like the audible store - no way to buy books but you can listen to them....
- dnomad 8y agoPeople who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US and French courts over it appstore monopoly so let's hope this ridiculous practice is stopped soon.
- jakubp 8y agoIs there Amazon Kindle app for iOS? If there is, isn't it the exact same type of app as Steam Link? Access your content library, buy more content. If Apple lets Amazon do this (presumably because Amazon is too big to ignore) and won't let Steam do it (because Steam isn't big enough), then this feels more like a cartel than monopoly.
- huseyinkeles 8y agoit actually has, but you can not buy new books, only read the ones you've already bought.
- Haydos585x2 8y agoMy understanding of Kindle and Audible on iOS is that Amazon does not _sell_ content on the iOS apps. You can only download/access your content. I always found this annoying with Audible and having to use my laptop to purchase and then download in the app. I haven't had an iPhone in a few years but I think the Steam app was similar.
- pragone 8y agoI always assumed this was because Amazon didn't want to have to pay the 30% or whatever cost to Apple for in-app purchases.
- canuckintime 8y ago
- zkomp 8y agoWhat? I really looked forward to this. Gaming in the apple eco system is horrible already but not even be allowed to stream? Extremely stupid, Outright hostile "Business conflict"? Now Apple suddenly becomes a real obstruction in my life and ultimately an enemy. This is switch to android level of bad.
- reaperducer 8y agostupid... hostile... a real obstruction in my life... an enemy I think I'll clip and save this comment to demonstrate to my students the definition of an "overreaction."
- Zooper 8y agoI'll not save it, and continue labeling any business entity that obstructs any of my freedoms for profit as an enemy.
- sometimesijust 8y agohttps://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-ios https://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-ios
- joshschreuder 8y agoI'm really looking forward to this on the Switch once the hacks start to solidify
- trisimix 8y agoGuess Im done with apple
- tzfld 8y agoThe need for decentralized and functional app stores are more real than ever.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y agoConsidering Valve's recent shenanigans regarding visual novels, it's hard not to laugh about this. As the RPS article put it: "Ah, it’s terrible when a digital store approve your products then turn around and removes ’em."
- snarfy 8y agoI can already hear the Apple apologists defending them, something about Valve not adhering to the highest standards and best quality, some BS like that.
- jrs95 8y agoUnfortunately Apple has to enforce the technicalities around their rules for apps or they legally won’t be able to enforce them at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if a revised version of the app ends up making it to the store.
- SwetDrems 8y agoThis is why I'm so excited for WASM: the tech is great, but its ability to break down barriers to entry to markets for new and upcoming players is what makes it socially meaningful and worth supporting.
- bluthru 8y agoApple continuing to chase revenue from apps and services really worries me.
- stephenr 8y agoI commented two hours ago asking for the URL to be set to the canonical one not the amp one. It’s been upvoted at least 40 times, but appears at the bottom of the comments and is collapsed-by-default. What’s the deal, HN?
- Karunamon 8y agoProbably because it's off topic meta noise, like complaints about paywalls. You'd probably be better served by emailing hn@ycombinator.com.
- stephenr 8y agoI mean, the URL was changed, it seems. I was more questioning the ghosting of the comment in spite of upvotes, without any kind of notice/reasoning. "Troll" comments get removed with an explanation.
- dang 8y agoYes but when something is obviously off topic, that should be explanation enough. On HN we try to respect readers' intelligence and make no attempt to spell everything out, which would be tedious.
- Rexxar 8y agoBecause a moderator have done what you ask for and the comment is not relevant any more so he hide it too. Sometimes moderators let a message like "Done, thanks" but not always.
- djrogers 8y agoLike many other time this has happened, I expect we'll find out that everything we've heard in the first 24 hours was incomplete or just plain wrong, and in a few days this will all get resolved. Of course the angriest out there will simply claim it was the result of Apple buckling to public outcry rather than self-correcting over a mistake or misunderstanding, but then those people will always choose to see malevolence in any corporate actions they don't like.
- tambourine_man 8y agoI've been saying this for years. There needs to be big scary button with lots of warnings that allows the users to download and run whatever binary they want. That should be guaranteed by law for any turing machine. Curated stores are a great idea but there has to be an alternative.
- ProAm 8y agoIt all comes down to who owns the machine. In this case you are really just leasing it from Apple.
- Tepix 8y agoApple seems to be confused. To use this app my PC (or Mac) must be running the game and I must be in the same LAN. How is there a business conflict? It's not like mobile games are competing with desktop games.
- tormeh 8y agoI would switch to iPhone if Apple weren't like this.
- grawprog 8y agoLol at everyone that continues to purchase Apple's garbage....honestly I had a guy tell me the other day he hates iphones...but buys them anyway....he couldn't even say why....
- pmarreck 8y agoAs an apple user and gamer, this angers me.
- pmarreck 8y agoI'm not sure anything has angered me as a long-time Apple fan (seriously, since 1984) this much (because I've also been a gamer at least that long). This is some creepy-[girl/boy]friend level of control. Congratulations, you've succeeded in pissing off any Apple fan who enjoys gaming while thinking that a PC app running on the phone with some amount of latency and resolution loss (not to mention likely illegible onscreen UI elements depending on how things are rendered) is somehow going to compete with a native iOS app.
- earenndil 8y agoInteresting, since chrome remote desktop is there which (I assume -- never used it) would allow you to remote-desktop into your computer and run steam.