17 ms·

Woman Partially Sucked Out of Jet When Window Breaks

200 points by lsh123 9y ago

CommieBobDole 9y ago
Washington Post is now reporting one dead, though it's not clear if it's the person sucked out of the window - the article says the person who went to the hospital may have been someone who had a heart attack during the incident, and presumably is the person who died. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/04/17/southwest-flight-makes-emergency-landing-at-philadelphia-airport-reports-say/?utm_term=.825136535c0c https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/04/1...
- rubicon33 9y ago
  Dying of a heart attack is a serious worry of mine when flying. I have extreme, and I mean EXTREME anxiety (190+ BPM) whenever anything even remotely wrong (turbulence) happens. I'm not sure how I'll ever get over it. I've tried many things. Short of a tranquilizer shot, I'm pretty sure a failure like this would take my life through anxiety related heart complications alone.
  - serf 9y ago
    Have you tried any of the common anti-anxiety drugs? Lots of them have pretty tremendous side effects; but they can commonly be used as-needed by folks suffering from specific anxieties -- unlike many other psych drugs.
  - mimiflynn 9y ago
    This used to happen to me when flying, but years of therapy and xanax has paid off. I used to cry on strangers on planes, and now I can fly without medication. I know you tried some things, but perhaps consider therapy.
  - dahart 9y ago
    > I have extreme, and I mean EXTREME anxiety (190+ BPM) whenever anything even remotely wrong (turbulence) happens. You're not alone. I have really bad anxiety during turbulence too, and I used to skydive competitively. I've flown with people who have worse anxiety, but mine seems to be getting worse over time. I wish I could control it, because I know turbulence is natural and not dangerous, and it still makes my blood boil. It's preventing me from traveling more. The things that have helped me most are deep breathing exercises, and noticing what "turbulence" in a car or bus feels like compared to an airplane (as in, often worse in a wheeled vehicle and it doesn't bother me.) I haven't really tried any drugs. Had a good conversation earlier about this, on an article about turbulence, if that interests you... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993955
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
    Since it is solely a mental thing, you can work on how you think and how you choose to respond to your environment. If your fear is caused by your unbound imagination due to your lack of knowledge of how planes work, you can work on that. Learn how planes take off, stay in the air, land. There are YouTube videos and offline, on-site courses that explain everything in detail, what each thing does, why it does it, what it looks like, what it sounds like, what effects it has on the plane.
  - mlindner 9y ago
    I suggest trying to understand turbulence and what it is and how little harm it can cause the aircraft. (Look at wing bend test videos on how much the wing can flex before failure.) The best way out of anxiety is to convince your psyche that nothing wrong is possible.
  - gdulli 9y ago
    Turbulence used to bother me. Hearing some factoid like turbulence has never (or nearly never) caused a crash (I'm paraphrasing) is what got me over that. Even if a hundred flights had been taken down by turbulence over the decades of modern aviation, those are still great odds. Better than driving, I'm sure. And the fact that an engine can explode like this and the plane still lands safely makes me feel even less like the plane is a fragile or precarious thing.
    - kqr 9y ago
      Yeah. Imagine normal cruising flight level as a bank account with $35000 in it. Something unexpected happens (severe turbulence) and you have to spend $30 (you drop 30 feet). It barely makes a dent. You wouldn't feel bad about the money. You have a huge buffer against those events. As long as you are at several thousand feet, altitude will do a lot of work in your favour. There is plenty of time for a trained pilot to do one of many different recovery maneuvers in the unlikely event shit hits the fan. That high up in the sky, the pilot almost has to intentionally want to crash you to succeed. What personally helps me in the cruise part of the flight is a particular kind of mindfulness. I observe the turbulence, and recognise it for what it is without judging it as good or bad. But since my mind is so strictly sey on judgment, as a substitute for judging each individual event of turbulence, I try to judge the pilots response to it. Do they climb to find a more stable altitude? Do they slow down? Turn to a different heading? And does it work? Is the amount of turbulence, on a larger scale, decreasing? Does it at first increase, and then decrease? That sort of thing keeps me occupied in a way more disconnected from the evolutionary panic of shit-fuck-I-feel-like-I'm-in-a-free-fall.
  - ModernMech 9y ago
    If you live in the right state, take a weed gummy (indica) before going through security. Always does the trick for me.
    - gnulinux 9y ago
      I just want to (anecdotally) note that this does not work for everyone. I had (generalized) anxiety issues and unfortunately weed never helped me, instead it gave me my worst panic attacks. I can rarely handle trace amount of weed in social occasions (say, one puff) but anything more immediately fractals into a 911 call. I probably have an extreme case, but I know at least 3 other people that weed makes them anxious. This is Bay Area, I also tried "high CBD low THC" strains without any luck.
    - Jugglerofworlds 9y ago
      Marijuana can actually trigger anxiety disorders in some people. The fourth time I tried marijuana it kindled a panic attack which led to OCD. My life was completely ruined for three years, and I still haven't fully recovered to how I was before. I hate when people act like weed has zero risks and tout it as the cure for anxiety. Based on my experiences with several different psychiatrists and therapists, it seems that anxiety problems caused by marijuana are fairly common in the patients that they see. Edit: if you actually want something safe to treat flight anxiety, ask your doctor about a medium acting benzo or a beta blocker. These medications have been well studied by the medical community, and pharmacies ensure that you will receive the exact dosing required. This self medication stuff is complete crap.
  - smoyer 9y ago
    When my kids were little and we flew somewhere, we'd treat the turbulence as though it was a roller-coaster - I'm sure the other passengers appreciated "wheeeee" a whole lot more than crying, frighted children. I have no idea whether this helped them as adults or not but I can tell you that my son was more frightened when his (then) fiancee flew back to Malaysia skirting several war zones than when the two of them flew on their honeymoon.
    - gnulinux 9y ago
      Is "wheeee" level turbulance normal in transatlantic flights? I semi-frequently (once every other year) fly Europe <--> West Coast and never experienced a turbulance that felt like rollercoaster. The worst turbulance I remember felt like a ~4 earthquake that went on about 5 minutes which made me pretty anxious. It was above Greenland.
      - smoyer 9y ago
        Summertime after 1600 at the airport where this plane landed - it's very common for there to be thunderstorms nearby from May to September. I've been in some very interesting weather patterns in the Denver CO area and from March to November there are afternoon thunderstorms many days in Tampa and Orlando. The kids were flying on vacation so Florida during Spring break was pretty common. The only turbulence I've experienced over the Atlantic was more than twenty years ago - we hit completely unexpected turbulence and I actually caught a flight attendant as she flew by (all those years of gymnastics came in handy).
        gnulinux 9y ago
        Wow I really hope that'll never happen to me I'd probably have a heart attack. Even the minor turbulance I wrote above gave me tremendous anxiety.
  - fudged71 9y ago
    I would be surprised if you haven't been prescribed beta-blockers. This worked wonders for my performance anxiety. Dropping my heart rate artificially miraculously makes me less worried.
  - woutr_be 9y ago
    Not sure if this will help anything, but I started to have severe anxiety when flying a couple of years ago, to the point where I almost just left the airport right before boarding. This just happened out of nowhere, I flew long haul before without any issues. This lasted about 2-3 years, every bump was enough to set it off. But out of nowhere, since last year it doesn't happen anymore, I can fly again without much worry, even sleep again during flights. Not sure what caused it, or how I got over it.
- russdill 9y ago
  I'm get the impression the person who died was the woman who got struck by shrapnel. I don't think anyone got sucked out of the plane or even was in real danger of being sucked out.
  - gnulinux 9y ago
    Did you read the article? A woman's half body was sucked out of the plane. A witness even commented that her head and arm were "out of the plane".
    - russdill 9y ago
      The article has since been updated with many additional accounts and details. Previously these seemed like two potentially different individuals: Another passenger, Marty Martinez, said that a female flier suffered a heart attack in the chaos. “Someone on the plane had a heart attack, and it looks like an engine blew out, then a window was blown open,” he said on Facebook. “We are still on the plane and they are trying to revive a woman on the plane.”
- paulgb 9y ago
  > Sumwalt said the death marks the first passenger fatality on a U.S. carrier since 2009. Skimming a list of aviation incidents, it seems like this ends the longest passenger-death-free streak in US aviation history. Given how much more flights there are it's pretty remarkable how safe air travel has become, this tragic death notwithstanding.
BadassFractal 9y ago
That's straight out of my worst nightmares.
- ssambros 9y ago
  And this is one of the reasons why most airlines in the US ask to wear a seatbelt during the whole flight, not just on takeoff and landing.
  - privacypoller 9y ago
    I guess you can say "this is one of the reasons" but the overwhelming motivator is turbulence and passenger control. I'd suggest the odds of getting hurt by exploding material are way more likely and dangerous than getting sucked out of a completely shattered window, regardless if you're wearing your seat belt. Getting hurt because the plane makes a sudden drop on the other hand can virtually be eliminated by wearing your belt.
- tibbon 9y ago
  This is going to sound stupid, but every time I flush a toilet on a plane I have the visceral feeling of the plane being depressurized and rather dislike it. I know the plane is safe and it's a fine mechanism, but still...
  - Coding_Cat 9y ago
    Same. I even skip y regular coffee if it's a little before a flight just so that I won't need to use the bathroom on the plane... I don't know why I just jump everytime I have to flush it.
vanattab 9y ago
Wow scary shit. I hope she flies for free on Southwest for the rest of her life.
- jolmg 9y ago
  LOL. You think she'll want to get near one of their planes ever again?
  - Casseres 9y ago
    I would! I'm realistic about the chances of another accident like that.
    - duskwuff 9y ago
      It's already happened once -- the odds of it happening twice to the same person are astronomical! ;)
      - Casseres 9y ago
        clarification: chances of any accident :-)
      - HankB99 9y ago
        The odds of happening to her (if she ever gets on a plane again) are the same as if it had never happened to her in the first place.
- gargravarr 9y ago
  That's if she can ever get on a plane again. I would take trains and boats if this ever happened to me.
  - gargravarr 9y ago
    Jeez, I read this morning that she didn't make it. Terrible tragedy. I knew this would be the least of her problems, but I was rooting for her survival considering previous incidents (several described here) where passengers and crew survived decompression events. Thoughts are with her family and friends at this sad time. CFM are going to have to move fast on this one. Catastrophic engine failure like this could seriously dent people's faith in air travel (also, the CFM-56 engine has quite a history of blade failure leading to extreme engine damage[0]). [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56#Fan_blade_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56#Fan_bl...
jupp0r 9y ago
One more reason to keep that seatbelt on.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jloughry 9y ago
I wish reporters would get this right. It's blown, not sucked. Vacuum doesn't exert a force on anything; there's nothing there. It's the high pressure air inside that does the work.
- CGamesPlay 9y ago
  OK but then the word "sucked" can't ever be used. Inhaling? That's the atmosphere blowing air into your lungs.
- jupp0r 9y ago
  If you want to split hairs: It's the pressure differential that's creating the air flow. I doubt the plane was flying in actual vacuum with a turbofan engine.
- dasil003 9y ago
  You're essentially saying that suck is invalid at a conceptual level.
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  This sort of pedantry blows.
  - seattle_spring 9y ago
    False. It sucks.
    - lostmsu 9y ago
      So does this spring in Seattle :-D
      - seattle_spring 9y ago
        Ironically, I made this account in Spring 2015, probably one of the nicest Springs Seattle has ever seen.
      - 9y ago
srj 9y ago
Good reason to go for the aisle seat.
- exhilaration 9y ago
  Better yet, get a seat in front of the engines instead of behind: The engine inlet was shredded with metal bent outward. The pane of a window just behind the left wing was missing.
  - nikanj 9y ago
    On most airlines, the front of the plane is for more expensive travel classes.
    - celticninja 9y ago
      Less of chance being hit by engine debris so they charge more.
      - jmkb 9y ago
        On both Aloha 243 and United 811, it was the first-class cabin that broke apart. In both cases seatbelts kept passengers from being sucked out of their seats. Aloha 243 lost a flight attendant who wasn't buckled in... but United 811 lost two whole rows of first class seats, passengers and all. And at least one passenger was sucked into the engine. So maybe being behind the engine isn't so bad. It's a common trope that the rear of the aircraft is safer, since it usually crashes nose-first. Back when the rear rows were the designated smoking section, one would always hear a few rounds of "smoking saved my life!" after a fatal plane crash.
      - michaelcampbell 9y ago
        They charge more for the convenience of getting seated and getting off, and by the precise amount that people will pay for that. Nothing more.
  - srj 9y ago
pc86 9y ago
Remember what we always say when there is a news article - especially local news! - about anything technical. Don't forget their tenuous relationship with logic and facts when reading this article. > A Southwest Airlines flight landed safely in Philadelphia Tuesday after the jet violently depressurized when a piece of an engine flew into and broke a window, according to passenger accounts Violent is relative. > The plane descended by more than 3,000 feet per minute until the pilots leveled out around 10,000 feet. 3000 fpm is nothing crazy, especially for an emergency descent with a depressurized cabin. I'm glad they included the following line: > Arthur Wolk, an aviation expert, said that is a modest rate of descent and indicated that the pilot had control of the aircraft. The plane was never "going down" as one passenger is quoted saying.
- komali2 9y ago
  >violently depressurized If we get to use this when a plane's window breaks, what do we say about the Byford Dolphin incident? > Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the 60 centimetres (24 in) diameter opening created by the jammed interior trunk door by escaping air and violently dismembered, including bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which further resulted in expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section later being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door. We're nearing the ceiling of available acronyms with "violent." I guess "catastrophic" could apply? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_acc...
  - tamersalama 9y ago
    Or, relatively speaking, the Aloha Airlines with fuselage damage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
  - jensvdh 9y ago
    Well, that's something I wish I didn't read this morning on HN. Did he.. survive?
CWuestefeld 9y ago
MythBusters did a thing on this a while back. This video might be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k
- cottsak 9y ago
  Particularly this image https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133 https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133 which shows the "person" partially sucked out when the whole window went - eerily similar to the description of the woman in the window seat.
jey 9y ago
The Aviation Herald has more straightforward reporting and pictures: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0
randyrand 9y ago
I guess, wear your seat belt.
- falcolas 9y ago
  Yup, this. If you're belted in, the entire chair would have to detach. Something that doesn't typically happen in a depressurization event, no matter what Hollywood would have you believe.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  If you're sitting in a window seat it's entirely possible to be sucked into the window enough where you'd be dead even with your seatbelt on. I'd imagine most adults would get stuck at the shoulders, which would only take about 1ft of wiggle room. Also, she may have received fatal head trauma from the engine cowling entering the plane. So, I think it's premature to say that she would have lived even if she was wearing her seatbelt(was she?). But generally I agree it is a good idea to strap in
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    I have to stoop over so low to see out windows, I doubt that more than my arm and shoulder would make it through. Of course my head hitting the wall could kill me too...
speg 9y ago
That's wild. My wife took our son on his first flight today and now I'm just picturing a toddler getting sucked out the window :(
- edwhitesell 9y ago
  I had the exact same thought of my now 6 year old who always has the window seat when we fly. Here's to hoping being strapped into a carseat would offer enough protection for such a tragic and rare event.
  - brandmeyer 9y ago
    Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Our kids always flew in their car seats. The airplane's lap belt goes over the car seat in slots that are designed for this purpose, and the kid is strapped into the car seat's 5-point harness. The whole thing works great, aside from having to haul the car seat down the airplane aisle during boarding and deplaning.
- rdlecler1 9y ago
  Children under 2 can fly free on a parents lap, but my wife insists on buying our 4month old his own seat for safety reasons. There will be zero chance I talk her out of this now.
  - speg 9y ago
    We were looking at this this morning. Apparently they (WestJet) will refund you the cost of the seat if you provide proof of age up to a week later. I assume this may only apply if your child is close enough to 2 that they feel a need to verify, and you don't have proof of their age with you.
    - rdlecler1 9y ago
      WestJet website doesn’t say anything about this. Actually mentions purchasing a seat as an option but no refund. Any update on this or with other airlines?
danso 9y ago
Not sure if the posted article contains video footage (it requires Flash) posted by a passenger, but here it is on Twitter: https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586 https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586
- shkkmo 9y ago
  That page appears to be broken for me. I get a rapid fire series of constant requests to the twitter API that all get a 401 response.
quux 9y ago
There's some good discussion going on in this thread in the aviation subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_emergency_landing_in_philly_just_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_...
- samfriedman 9y ago
  For incidents like this, the PPRuNe pilots forum is also good for informed discussion from industry experts and pilots: https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion...
master-litty 9y ago
>A wave of malfunctions has plagued Southwest in recent years. Considering the amount of flights Southwest operates, three major events over the span of two years seems like a tremendous success -- Especially since nobody has died! This accident is undoubtedly traumatizing but extremely rare. Is there any meaningful substance to this?
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Just the single incident of an engine coming apart like this is considered a serious problem. They spend a lot of money inspecting them to prevent such things. The most interesting comparison is probably between maintenance facilities that work on comparable planes. So if there are some that don't have any incidents, you maybe conclude that 3 is really bad.
  - ssambros 9y ago
    It is a second similar incident during the last two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_3472 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_3472
  - master-litty 9y ago
    I'm certainly not saying it isn't serious. I just wouldn't plaster it as a historical recurrence. Wikipedia suggests Southwest has at least 700 aircraft running 6 flights per day, implying 4,200+ flights per day, implying about 1.5+ million flights per year. 1-3 flights with major incidents out of 1.5 million? I would hardly call that a "wave of malfunctions" as it stands. But I do agree comparing maintenance facilities would be interesting.
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      No. Their duty cycle per plane is 3-4x what other airline companies do. Their aircrafts undergo a lot more stress than other airlines, so the fact they have so many more flights isn't impressive, it's the CAUSE of their problems. Several years ago they had a case of their fuselage ripping open midflight, and the reason was that the stress of taking off and landing puts a lot more stress on their planes.
buttholesurfer 9y ago
This reminds me of the Navy pilot that halfway ejected somehow. http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/ http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/
- tzs 9y ago
  It reminds me of British Airways Flight 5390. 27 hours before the flight, a cockpit window was replaced. Unfortunately, 84 of the 90 bolts used by the maintenance crew had a diameter 0.66 mm less than the documentation called for, so the window was not held in place as strongly as it should have been. On top of that, this plane had a design flaw. Its windows were bolted on from the outside, not the inside, meaning that the bolts had to hold against the force from the difference between the pressure in the pressurized cabin and outside. Bolts on windows bolted from the inside only have to deal with much smaller forces, such as wind during takeoff and at low altitude, and then only until the pressure difference gets high enough to take all of the force off the bolts. So...window pops out, and pilot starts getting sucked out. His legs got caught on the flight controls, and a flight attendant was able to grab the pilot's belt and hold on. The pilot was getting blown all around by the wind, and the guy holding on was getting bruised by all the motion, and was also getting frostbite. They could also see the pilot's face hitting the window, and saw his eyes were open but not blinking. They assumed he was dead, but decided to keep holding on, out of concern that if they let the body go it might get sucked into an engine and they already had enough problems (pilot's legs were still tangled in the flight controls, and they also could not hear the radios because of the noise from the wind). They did manage to get down OK, and everyone was surprised to find the pilot had survived. He had frostbite, shock, bruising, and broken arm and wrist on one side and thumb on the other. The flight attendant who had held him the most had a dislocated shoulder, and frostbite damage to his face and one eye. This incident was covered in the documentary series "Air Disasters" ("Mayday" in Canada, "Air Crash Investigation" elsewhere). Here's the Wikipedia article on the accident for complete details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390
Symmetry 9y ago
And we should all remember to keep our seat belts on. And also seriously you should put your mask on first quickly before helping others. Your ancestors didn't experience a lack of oxygen without excess CO2 so you'll only experience the later as feeling that you're running out of breath. Without oxygen you can become too stupid to put on your air mask[1], then black out and die without noticing something is wrong. And if you're working in a lab with a cryogenic liquid that spills don't try to be a hero, just get you and your lab-mates out of there. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw
- petee 9y ago
  The guy who recorded himself didn't even wear the mask properly
  - cyberferret 9y ago
    I saw another cabin pic and it looked like NO ONE had their oxygen masks on properly. I wish people would actually listen when the stewardesses say "Place over your nose AND mouth and breath normally". Putting the mask cup over just your mouth is next to useless.
    - gowld 9y ago
      What happens if you don't cover your nose?
      - lutorm 9y ago
        As long as you remember to only breathe through your mouth, nothing. But if you don't, you'll pass out just as quickly as you would without the mask.
      - cyberferret 9y ago
        You essentially won't be getting the oxygen. In reality - those yellow masks are borderline ineffective anyway. You basically need an airtight seal around your entire nose and mouth otherwise the pure O2 will simply vent away. But at the altitudes that commercial aircraft fly at, it is better than nothing. Below about 25,000 feet they provide a little more time before onset of hypoxia, but above 35,000 they would be useless. Best bet if you are at higher altitudes is to hold the mask on as tight as possible and try to eliminate any gaps. If you notice the oxygen masks that the pilots use (and that fighter pilots use), they are a very different beast, and have secure latching mechanisms to hold the mask tightly against your face with NO gaps at all. (Also a reason why beards are banned for flight crew in the air force - can't have ANY gaps where the O2 can leak out). My old flight instructor used to fly jets in the Air Force back in the 50's and 60's, when the cockpits were unpressurised, and he said that at altitudes around 60,000+ feet, if your oxygen mask failed, you had about 1 second of consciousness. In fact, he said at those altitudes, the pressure differential was so great that your diaphragm actually couldn't expand to enable normal breathing, and they used to have liquid oxygen pressure fed through their masks. If they wanted to breath, they just opened their mouth and freezing cold LOX (which vaporised almost instantly at that altitude) would be rammed down their gullets...
gumby 9y ago
I was in an emergency landing (complete with evacuation on the side without an engine fire) in 1990. We didn't have a catastrophic failure like this; there was time to prepare. What really surprised me was how cooperative all the passengers were. In those days emergency rows were given to people who needed extra room, so the flight attendants told the elderly folks in the emergency rows to change seats and recruited youngsters like me (I was 25) to sit there and review how and if to open the window (I was the last-resort option and did not get to actually do it). They collected all our shoes and checked everybody's practice crash position. There was no screaming (except during the rather abrupt landing). And unlike what you see today nobody tried to take their cabin baggage with them (they'd told us to empty our pockets, though I was naughty and kept my passport, which later made life a lot easier for me). One thing is unchanged: I was the first one to leave the arrival hall (this was pre-mobile phones so I wanted to find a phone and get a new flight rather than let the airline deal with it like everyone else did), and there was a camera crew there. I was asked "were you on that flight" and when I said yes they asked, "and how was it?" I said, "exciting but I felt safe the whole time" they switched off the camera, looked annoyed, and went back to watching the exit door. sigh. And I really got a strong lesson in the real purpose of flight attendants.
- speg 9y ago
  Why did they collect your shoes?
  - HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago
    They can damage the escape slides.
    - furyg3 9y ago
      It also just makes sliding easier.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Sounds like a design problem. A covering of woven UHMW HDPE would make the slides more puncture and slash resistant, and could take the "collect passenger shoes" item off the emergency checklist. But that would also make the slides more expensive, so it really all depends on what the airline thinks a dead passenger is worth. Edit: The structural integrity of the slide is provided by pneumatic pressure on a rubber-like material (neoprene?). The thickness of that material could be reduced somewhat if HDPE fibers were added. You're not trying to make the things bulletproof, just shoe-resistant. The end result would be a lighter slide, but it would be an order of magnitude more expensive.
danaliv 9y ago
Approach control recording here - SWA1380 comes in at around the 14-minute mark: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-Arrival-Apr-17-2018-1500Z.mp3 http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-Arrival... The captain is cool as a cucumber. The controller is sweating bullets!
- scottlamb 9y ago
  > The captain is cool as a cucumber. The controller is sweating bullets! Wow, yeah. 17:03: "Now is your airplane physically on fire?" "No, it's not on fire, but part of it's missing."
  - dankohn1 9y ago
    16:55: "Use caution for the downtown area." Meaning, don't fly over downtown so that if your plane comes apart you won't kill large numbers of people below you. Pretty intense stuff.
    - schoen 9y ago
      I'm similarly impressed with the captain here, but I disagree with your interpretation of what the approach controller was saying in this case. Pilot: Southwest 1380, we'd like to turn - to start turning inbound. Approach: Southwest 1380, turn, just start turning southbound there. There's a Southwest 737 on a four-mile final. You'll be turning southbound. Start looking for the airport, it's off to your right and slightly behind you there, and altitude is your discretion. Use caution for the downtown area. Maintain, advise you maintain at or above 2200 per the MVA. I believe this is the point, 34 minutes into the flight, at which the pilot then turns southbound toward the airport, passing almost directly over downtown Philadelphia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417/1430Z/KLGA/KDAL https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417... https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitude_(MVA) https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitu... "The minimum vectoring altitude in each sector provides 1000 ft above the highest obstruction in non-mountainous areas and 2000 ft above the highest obstacle in designated mountainous areas. The MVA is the lowest altitude that meets obstacle clearance requirements in the airspace specified. " In this the MVA appeared to refer to the controller's instructions for the altitude required to pass 1000 feet above the tallest buildings in the downtown area. Again, the "caution" related to downtown was mentioned in between the controller's statement that the pilot could use her discretion for the altitude and the statement that he "advise[s]" her to "maintain at or above 2200 [feet] for the MVA" in that region. So in context, I believe the controller was just advising the pilot to attempt to maintain enough altitude to pass safely above the downtown buildings, rather than to avoid flying over the downtown area at all. Again, it appears that she did fly over the downtown area as part of her approach. At the time of its southbound turn, the plane was at an elevation of about 3300 feet and then it passed over downtown at an elevation near 2600 feet or so. [Edit: I saw another transcript that said "per the MVA" instead of "for the MVA", and I've corrected my transcript above. This makes me even more convinced that the "caution for the downtown area" refers to an established precaution, although other aircraft might not have a reason to come as close to the downtown buildings on a typical approach.]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
samfriedman 9y ago
One fatality has unfortunately been confirmed. https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/986324611263414272 https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/98632461126341427...
hodgesrm 9y ago
Latest pilot discussion (including armchair pilots) on the incident is available on Professional Pilots Rumour Network at https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion....
CivilEngineer 9y ago
This is why they should NOT allow people who can't fit thorough an overwing exit on an airplane. They'd clog the hole and cause everyone else to die.
jordache 9y ago
not really suck, pushed out by the pressure from within the cabin
- ASalazarMX 9y ago
  Oh, I'm not drinking through a straw, I'm actually pushing the liquid up using the atmosphere.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  What on Earth is sucking, if not force induced by a pressure gradient?
pandasun 9y ago
Video https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512 https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512
AnimalMuppet 9y ago
This may be Southwest's first passenger fatality, ever. I say "may" because if a person dies on a flight from a heart attack, it doesn't count in the safety statistics. I suspect that it doesn't count even if the heart attack was plausibly brought on by an in-flight safety incident. But if the woman who was partially sucked out is the one who died (unclear at the time I write this), then it's the first one in corporate history for Southwest. That's impressive. It doesn't make today any less tragic, though...
- nunez 9y ago
  Did they did in or out of the aircraft after it landed?
xvf22 9y ago
I was surprised to see how many selfies showed people incorrectly wearing their oxygen masks by not covering the nose.
- caf 9y ago
  They really need to redesign those with an obvious "nose notch".
eddof13 9y ago
I was amazed when I saw that it wasn't Allegiant.
Disruptive_Dave 9y ago
I was on a JetBlue flight from Vegas to NYC years ago, coming back home from a bachelor party. On takeoff I heard a loud pop and just knew, from years of flying, something not-so-great just happened. I was sitting next to a good friend who didn't love flying so I was keeping my cool for him. Long story semi-short, you could tell we were flying in circles pretty quickly. The crew didn't communicate much. It was absolutely fascinating to witness how panic spread throughout the plane, even in mostly silence. Before you knew it, this indescribable wave of anxiety just hung like a cloud. People started looking around, so others did the same. My friend began his descent into full panic attack mode. The college aged girl in front of me started crying. My buddy soaked through his shirt in sweat. People were trying to call and text loved ones to say what might be their goodbyes. There were a few "get me the fuck off this plane right the fuck now!!!!" freakouts. I think they actually helped the situation a bit because most people who were freaking felt better about their lesser level of freak. I don't remember how long it took the crew to tell us what happened, or the partial story. The hydraulics system went down, they said. But we were too big and full of fuel to land at Vegas, so we had to do circles above the desert to burn gas before we could land. I couldn't get why they didn't just go to LAX or something like that. 5 hours we were in the air. The turbulence above the desert is not great. So, you have lack of information, a faulty plane, and the inability to land all happening at once. So...much...vomit. You know what was cool, though? The older gentleman in front of me consoling the college girl. Hugging her, holding her hand, asking her questions about her life to keep her mind busy. Then, pill bottles. That's what I'll always remember. People were passing around their downers for anyone who felt they needed 'em! Finally, we were walked through emergency landing procedures and we went in for the landing. Nobody knew what to expect. I caught a glimpse of all the emergency lights at the far end of the runway, where we were headed. The landing wasn't that bad. We survived. JetBlue told us they'd take care of everyone; cars, hotels, food. Then they told us there was another flight leaving soon for NYC and they automatically rebooked us all on it. Up to us if we took it, though. I've never seen a group of people move that quickly towards the bar. We all did shots. Laughed, told dumb jokes. A crew rented a van to drive back East. I told my panicked buddy that, statistically speaking, he will never take a safer flight in his entire life than this next one. (Joke's on him, I'm a marketer, not a statistician!) We slept like babies on the flight, got into Brooklyn at 7am, hugged and kissed my girlfriend. Edit: Forgot the part where the flight attendant (who was awesome) from the doomed flight ended up sitting in front of us on the next one. We asked her to give it to us straight and she basically said we lost 2 (of 3, if I recall correctly) hydraulics systems, then something else I can't remember. She said in her 17 years of flying it was the closest she ever cam to going down, believing it was a real possibility.
code4tee 9y ago
Crew did a great job with a textbook handling of the situation. It’s a testimaent to the training of the crew that this didn’t turn out worse. Obviously a lot of people are going to be taking a very close look at the engine and what happened there but sounds like the crew did a great job here.
intrasight 9y ago
I always wear my seatbelt when sitting. I also try not to be seated close to the engines since I'm familiar with the damage that an exploding engine can do. What got my attention from these photos is that at flight speed, the shrapnel from an exploding engine is more likely to do damage far back from the point of the explosion. I hadn't considered that before.
- animal531 9y ago
  Statistically sitting in the back is a bit safer than in the front. After that there are also specific cases where sitting in the middle you are for example more likely to be injured by trolleys or falling luggage. Also sitting close to a door can be important in case a quick exit is needed.
ShanePatrice 9y ago
Any updates, on this amazing landing? One news source reported a man used his back to partially cover up the blown out window. Does anyone know if this was true and if so who was he? If true he risked his life to save others and I'd like to know who he is. Should any of us ever run into trouble on a plane heres hoping we have a pilot as competent as this woman. Great save!

200 points by lsh123 9y ago

Washington Post is now reporting one dead, though it's not clear if it's the person sucked out of the window - the article says the person who went to the hospital may have been someone who had a heart attack during the incident, and presumably is the person who died. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/04/17/southwest-flight-makes-emergency-landing-at-philadelphia-airport-reports-say/?utm_term=.825136535c0c https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/04/1...

rubicon33 9y ago
Dying of a heart attack is a serious worry of mine when flying. I have extreme, and I mean EXTREME anxiety (190+ BPM) whenever anything even remotely wrong (turbulence) happens. I'm not sure how I'll ever get over it. I've tried many things. Short of a tranquilizer shot, I'm pretty sure a failure like this would take my life through anxiety related heart complications alone.
- serf 9y ago
  Have you tried any of the common anti-anxiety drugs? Lots of them have pretty tremendous side effects; but they can commonly be used as-needed by folks suffering from specific anxieties -- unlike many other psych drugs.
- mimiflynn 9y ago
  This used to happen to me when flying, but years of therapy and xanax has paid off. I used to cry on strangers on planes, and now I can fly without medication. I know you tried some things, but perhaps consider therapy.
- dahart 9y ago
  > I have extreme, and I mean EXTREME anxiety (190+ BPM) whenever anything even remotely wrong (turbulence) happens. You're not alone. I have really bad anxiety during turbulence too, and I used to skydive competitively. I've flown with people who have worse anxiety, but mine seems to be getting worse over time. I wish I could control it, because I know turbulence is natural and not dangerous, and it still makes my blood boil. It's preventing me from traveling more. The things that have helped me most are deep breathing exercises, and noticing what "turbulence" in a car or bus feels like compared to an airplane (as in, often worse in a wheeled vehicle and it doesn't bother me.) I haven't really tried any drugs. Had a good conversation earlier about this, on an article about turbulence, if that interests you... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14993955
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
  Since it is solely a mental thing, you can work on how you think and how you choose to respond to your environment. If your fear is caused by your unbound imagination due to your lack of knowledge of how planes work, you can work on that. Learn how planes take off, stay in the air, land. There are YouTube videos and offline, on-site courses that explain everything in detail, what each thing does, why it does it, what it looks like, what it sounds like, what effects it has on the plane.
- mlindner 9y ago
  I suggest trying to understand turbulence and what it is and how little harm it can cause the aircraft. (Look at wing bend test videos on how much the wing can flex before failure.) The best way out of anxiety is to convince your psyche that nothing wrong is possible.
- gdulli 9y ago
  Turbulence used to bother me. Hearing some factoid like turbulence has never (or nearly never) caused a crash (I'm paraphrasing) is what got me over that. Even if a hundred flights had been taken down by turbulence over the decades of modern aviation, those are still great odds. Better than driving, I'm sure. And the fact that an engine can explode like this and the plane still lands safely makes me feel even less like the plane is a fragile or precarious thing.
  - kqr 9y ago
    Yeah. Imagine normal cruising flight level as a bank account with $35000 in it. Something unexpected happens (severe turbulence) and you have to spend $30 (you drop 30 feet). It barely makes a dent. You wouldn't feel bad about the money. You have a huge buffer against those events. As long as you are at several thousand feet, altitude will do a lot of work in your favour. There is plenty of time for a trained pilot to do one of many different recovery maneuvers in the unlikely event shit hits the fan. That high up in the sky, the pilot almost has to intentionally want to crash you to succeed. What personally helps me in the cruise part of the flight is a particular kind of mindfulness. I observe the turbulence, and recognise it for what it is without judging it as good or bad. But since my mind is so strictly sey on judgment, as a substitute for judging each individual event of turbulence, I try to judge the pilots response to it. Do they climb to find a more stable altitude? Do they slow down? Turn to a different heading? And does it work? Is the amount of turbulence, on a larger scale, decreasing? Does it at first increase, and then decrease? That sort of thing keeps me occupied in a way more disconnected from the evolutionary panic of shit-fuck-I-feel-like-I'm-in-a-free-fall.
- ModernMech 9y ago
  If you live in the right state, take a weed gummy (indica) before going through security. Always does the trick for me.
  - gnulinux 9y ago
    I just want to (anecdotally) note that this does not work for everyone. I had (generalized) anxiety issues and unfortunately weed never helped me, instead it gave me my worst panic attacks. I can rarely handle trace amount of weed in social occasions (say, one puff) but anything more immediately fractals into a 911 call. I probably have an extreme case, but I know at least 3 other people that weed makes them anxious. This is Bay Area, I also tried "high CBD low THC" strains without any luck.
  - Jugglerofworlds 9y ago
    Marijuana can actually trigger anxiety disorders in some people. The fourth time I tried marijuana it kindled a panic attack which led to OCD. My life was completely ruined for three years, and I still haven't fully recovered to how I was before. I hate when people act like weed has zero risks and tout it as the cure for anxiety. Based on my experiences with several different psychiatrists and therapists, it seems that anxiety problems caused by marijuana are fairly common in the patients that they see. Edit: if you actually want something safe to treat flight anxiety, ask your doctor about a medium acting benzo or a beta blocker. These medications have been well studied by the medical community, and pharmacies ensure that you will receive the exact dosing required. This self medication stuff is complete crap.
- smoyer 9y ago
  When my kids were little and we flew somewhere, we'd treat the turbulence as though it was a roller-coaster - I'm sure the other passengers appreciated "wheeeee" a whole lot more than crying, frighted children. I have no idea whether this helped them as adults or not but I can tell you that my son was more frightened when his (then) fiancee flew back to Malaysia skirting several war zones than when the two of them flew on their honeymoon.
  - gnulinux 9y ago
    Is "wheeee" level turbulance normal in transatlantic flights? I semi-frequently (once every other year) fly Europe <--> West Coast and never experienced a turbulance that felt like rollercoaster. The worst turbulance I remember felt like a ~4 earthquake that went on about 5 minutes which made me pretty anxious. It was above Greenland.
    - smoyer 9y ago
      Summertime after 1600 at the airport where this plane landed - it's very common for there to be thunderstorms nearby from May to September. I've been in some very interesting weather patterns in the Denver CO area and from March to November there are afternoon thunderstorms many days in Tampa and Orlando. The kids were flying on vacation so Florida during Spring break was pretty common. The only turbulence I've experienced over the Atlantic was more than twenty years ago - we hit completely unexpected turbulence and I actually caught a flight attendant as she flew by (all those years of gymnastics came in handy).
      - gnulinux 9y ago
        Wow I really hope that'll never happen to me I'd probably have a heart attack. Even the minor turbulance I wrote above gave me tremendous anxiety.
- fudged71 9y ago
  I would be surprised if you haven't been prescribed beta-blockers. This worked wonders for my performance anxiety. Dropping my heart rate artificially miraculously makes me less worried.
- woutr_be 9y ago
  Not sure if this will help anything, but I started to have severe anxiety when flying a couple of years ago, to the point where I almost just left the airport right before boarding. This just happened out of nowhere, I flew long haul before without any issues. This lasted about 2-3 years, every bump was enough to set it off. But out of nowhere, since last year it doesn't happen anymore, I can fly again without much worry, even sleep again during flights. Not sure what caused it, or how I got over it.
russdill 9y ago
I'm get the impression the person who died was the woman who got struck by shrapnel. I don't think anyone got sucked out of the plane or even was in real danger of being sucked out.
- gnulinux 9y ago
  Did you read the article? A woman's half body was sucked out of the plane. A witness even commented that her head and arm were "out of the plane".
  - russdill 9y ago
    The article has since been updated with many additional accounts and details. Previously these seemed like two potentially different individuals: Another passenger, Marty Martinez, said that a female flier suffered a heart attack in the chaos. “Someone on the plane had a heart attack, and it looks like an engine blew out, then a window was blown open,” he said on Facebook. “We are still on the plane and they are trying to revive a woman on the plane.”
paulgb 9y ago
> Sumwalt said the death marks the first passenger fatality on a U.S. carrier since 2009. Skimming a list of aviation incidents, it seems like this ends the longest passenger-death-free streak in US aviation history. Given how much more flights there are it's pretty remarkable how safe air travel has become, this tragic death notwithstanding.

BadassFractal 9y ago

That's straight out of my worst nightmares.

ssambros 9y ago
And this is one of the reasons why most airlines in the US ask to wear a seatbelt during the whole flight, not just on takeoff and landing.
- privacypoller 9y ago
  I guess you can say "this is one of the reasons" but the overwhelming motivator is turbulence and passenger control. I'd suggest the odds of getting hurt by exploding material are way more likely and dangerous than getting sucked out of a completely shattered window, regardless if you're wearing your seat belt. Getting hurt because the plane makes a sudden drop on the other hand can virtually be eliminated by wearing your belt.
tibbon 9y ago
This is going to sound stupid, but every time I flush a toilet on a plane I have the visceral feeling of the plane being depressurized and rather dislike it. I know the plane is safe and it's a fine mechanism, but still...
- Coding_Cat 9y ago
  Same. I even skip y regular coffee if it's a little before a flight just so that I won't need to use the bathroom on the plane... I don't know why I just jump everytime I have to flush it.

vanattab 9y ago

Wow scary shit. I hope she flies for free on Southwest for the rest of her life.

jolmg 9y ago
LOL. You think she'll want to get near one of their planes ever again?
- Casseres 9y ago
  I would! I'm realistic about the chances of another accident like that.
  - duskwuff 9y ago
    It's already happened once -- the odds of it happening twice to the same person are astronomical! ;)
    - Casseres 9y ago
      clarification: chances of any accident :-)
    - HankB99 9y ago
      The odds of happening to her (if she ever gets on a plane again) are the same as if it had never happened to her in the first place.
gargravarr 9y ago
That's if she can ever get on a plane again. I would take trains and boats if this ever happened to me.
- gargravarr 9y ago
  Jeez, I read this morning that she didn't make it. Terrible tragedy. I knew this would be the least of her problems, but I was rooting for her survival considering previous incidents (several described here) where passengers and crew survived decompression events. Thoughts are with her family and friends at this sad time. CFM are going to have to move fast on this one. Catastrophic engine failure like this could seriously dent people's faith in air travel (also, the CFM-56 engine has quite a history of blade failure leading to extreme engine damage[0]). [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56#Fan_blade_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56#Fan_bl...

jupp0r 9y ago

One more reason to keep that seatbelt on.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

jloughry 9y ago

I wish reporters would get this right. It's blown, not sucked. Vacuum doesn't exert a force on anything; there's nothing there. It's the high pressure air inside that does the work.

CGamesPlay 9y ago
OK but then the word "sucked" can't ever be used. Inhaling? That's the atmosphere blowing air into your lungs.
jupp0r 9y ago
If you want to split hairs: It's the pressure differential that's creating the air flow. I doubt the plane was flying in actual vacuum with a turbofan engine.
dasil003 9y ago
You're essentially saying that suck is invalid at a conceptual level.
hyperbovine 9y ago
This sort of pedantry blows.
- seattle_spring 9y ago
  False. It sucks.
  - lostmsu 9y ago
    So does this spring in Seattle :-D
    - seattle_spring 9y ago
      Ironically, I made this account in Spring 2015, probably one of the nicest Springs Seattle has ever seen.
    - 9y ago

srj 9y ago

Good reason to go for the aisle seat.

exhilaration 9y ago
Better yet, get a seat in front of the engines instead of behind: The engine inlet was shredded with metal bent outward. The pane of a window just behind the left wing was missing.
- nikanj 9y ago
  On most airlines, the front of the plane is for more expensive travel classes.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    Less of chance being hit by engine debris so they charge more.
    - jmkb 9y ago
      On both Aloha 243 and United 811, it was the first-class cabin that broke apart. In both cases seatbelts kept passengers from being sucked out of their seats. Aloha 243 lost a flight attendant who wasn't buckled in... but United 811 lost two whole rows of first class seats, passengers and all. And at least one passenger was sucked into the engine. So maybe being behind the engine isn't so bad. It's a common trope that the rear of the aircraft is safer, since it usually crashes nose-first. Back when the rear rows were the designated smoking section, one would always hear a few rounds of "smoking saved my life!" after a fatal plane crash.
    - michaelcampbell 9y ago
      They charge more for the convenience of getting seated and getting off, and by the precise amount that people will pay for that. Nothing more.
- srj 9y ago

pc86 9y ago

Remember what we always say when there is a news article - especially local news! - about anything technical. Don't forget their tenuous relationship with logic and facts when reading this article. > A Southwest Airlines flight landed safely in Philadelphia Tuesday after the jet violently depressurized when a piece of an engine flew into and broke a window, according to passenger accounts Violent is relative. > The plane descended by more than 3,000 feet per minute until the pilots leveled out around 10,000 feet. 3000 fpm is nothing crazy, especially for an emergency descent with a depressurized cabin. I'm glad they included the following line: > Arthur Wolk, an aviation expert, said that is a modest rate of descent and indicated that the pilot had control of the aircraft. The plane was never "going down" as one passenger is quoted saying.

komali2 9y ago
>violently depressurized If we get to use this when a plane's window breaks, what do we say about the Byford Dolphin incident? > Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the 60 centimetres (24 in) diameter opening created by the jammed interior trunk door by escaping air and violently dismembered, including bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which further resulted in expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section later being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door. We're nearing the ceiling of available acronyms with "violent." I guess "catastrophic" could apply? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_acc...
- tamersalama 9y ago
  Or, relatively speaking, the Aloha Airlines with fuselage damage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
- jensvdh 9y ago
  Well, that's something I wish I didn't read this morning on HN. Did he.. survive?

CWuestefeld 9y ago

MythBusters did a thing on this a while back. This video might be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yG2h1aDB6k

cottsak 9y ago
Particularly this image https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133 https://youtu.be/4yG2h1aDB6k?t=133 which shows the "person" partially sucked out when the whole window went - eerily similar to the description of the woman in the window seat.

jey 9y ago

The Aviation Herald has more straightforward reporting and pictures: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0

randyrand 9y ago

I guess, wear your seat belt.

falcolas 9y ago
Yup, this. If you're belted in, the entire chair would have to detach. Something that doesn't typically happen in a depressurization event, no matter what Hollywood would have you believe.
oh_sigh 9y ago
If you're sitting in a window seat it's entirely possible to be sucked into the window enough where you'd be dead even with your seatbelt on. I'd imagine most adults would get stuck at the shoulders, which would only take about 1ft of wiggle room. Also, she may have received fatal head trauma from the engine cowling entering the plane. So, I think it's premature to say that she would have lived even if she was wearing her seatbelt(was she?). But generally I agree it is a good idea to strap in
- jessaustin 9y ago
  I have to stoop over so low to see out windows, I doubt that more than my arm and shoulder would make it through. Of course my head hitting the wall could kill me too...

speg 9y ago

That's wild. My wife took our son on his first flight today and now I'm just picturing a toddler getting sucked out the window :(

edwhitesell 9y ago
I had the exact same thought of my now 6 year old who always has the window seat when we fly. Here's to hoping being strapped into a carseat would offer enough protection for such a tragic and rare event.
- brandmeyer 9y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Our kids always flew in their car seats. The airplane's lap belt goes over the car seat in slots that are designed for this purpose, and the kid is strapped into the car seat's 5-point harness. The whole thing works great, aside from having to haul the car seat down the airplane aisle during boarding and deplaning.
rdlecler1 9y ago
Children under 2 can fly free on a parents lap, but my wife insists on buying our 4month old his own seat for safety reasons. There will be zero chance I talk her out of this now.
- speg 9y ago
  We were looking at this this morning. Apparently they (WestJet) will refund you the cost of the seat if you provide proof of age up to a week later. I assume this may only apply if your child is close enough to 2 that they feel a need to verify, and you don't have proof of their age with you.
  - rdlecler1 9y ago
    WestJet website doesn’t say anything about this. Actually mentions purchasing a seat as an option but no refund. Any update on this or with other airlines?

danso 9y ago

Not sure if the posted article contains video footage (it requires Flash) posted by a passenger, but here it is on Twitter: https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586 https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/986292072809283586

shkkmo 9y ago
That page appears to be broken for me. I get a rapid fire series of constant requests to the twitter API that all get a 401 response.

quux 9y ago

There's some good discussion going on in this thread in the aviation subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_emergency_landing_in_philly_just_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8cxru9/southwest_...

samfriedman 9y ago
For incidents like this, the PPRuNe pilots forum is also good for informed discussion from industry experts and pilots: https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion...

master-litty 9y ago

>A wave of malfunctions has plagued Southwest in recent years. Considering the amount of flights Southwest operates, three major events over the span of two years seems like a tremendous success -- Especially since nobody has died! This accident is undoubtedly traumatizing but extremely rare. Is there any meaningful substance to this?

maxerickson 9y ago
Just the single incident of an engine coming apart like this is considered a serious problem. They spend a lot of money inspecting them to prevent such things. The most interesting comparison is probably between maintenance facilities that work on comparable planes. So if there are some that don't have any incidents, you maybe conclude that 3 is really bad.
- ssambros 9y ago
  It is a second similar incident during the last two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_3472 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_3472
- master-litty 9y ago
  I'm certainly not saying it isn't serious. I just wouldn't plaster it as a historical recurrence. Wikipedia suggests Southwest has at least 700 aircraft running 6 flights per day, implying 4,200+ flights per day, implying about 1.5+ million flights per year. 1-3 flights with major incidents out of 1.5 million? I would hardly call that a "wave of malfunctions" as it stands. But I do agree comparing maintenance facilities would be interesting.
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    No. Their duty cycle per plane is 3-4x what other airline companies do. Their aircrafts undergo a lot more stress than other airlines, so the fact they have so many more flights isn't impressive, it's the CAUSE of their problems. Several years ago they had a case of their fuselage ripping open midflight, and the reason was that the stress of taking off and landing puts a lot more stress on their planes.

buttholesurfer 9y ago

This reminds me of the Navy pilot that halfway ejected somehow. http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/ http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/

tzs 9y ago
It reminds me of British Airways Flight 5390. 27 hours before the flight, a cockpit window was replaced. Unfortunately, 84 of the 90 bolts used by the maintenance crew had a diameter 0.66 mm less than the documentation called for, so the window was not held in place as strongly as it should have been. On top of that, this plane had a design flaw. Its windows were bolted on from the outside, not the inside, meaning that the bolts had to hold against the force from the difference between the pressure in the pressurized cabin and outside. Bolts on windows bolted from the inside only have to deal with much smaller forces, such as wind during takeoff and at low altitude, and then only until the pressure difference gets high enough to take all of the force off the bolts. So...window pops out, and pilot starts getting sucked out. His legs got caught on the flight controls, and a flight attendant was able to grab the pilot's belt and hold on. The pilot was getting blown all around by the wind, and the guy holding on was getting bruised by all the motion, and was also getting frostbite. They could also see the pilot's face hitting the window, and saw his eyes were open but not blinking. They assumed he was dead, but decided to keep holding on, out of concern that if they let the body go it might get sucked into an engine and they already had enough problems (pilot's legs were still tangled in the flight controls, and they also could not hear the radios because of the noise from the wind). They did manage to get down OK, and everyone was surprised to find the pilot had survived. He had frostbite, shock, bruising, and broken arm and wrist on one side and thumb on the other. The flight attendant who had held him the most had a dislocated shoulder, and frostbite damage to his face and one eye. This incident was covered in the documentary series "Air Disasters" ("Mayday" in Canada, "Air Crash Investigation" elsewhere). Here's the Wikipedia article on the accident for complete details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390

Symmetry 9y ago

And we should all remember to keep our seat belts on. And also seriously you should put your mask on first quickly before helping others. Your ancestors didn't experience a lack of oxygen without excess CO2 so you'll only experience the later as feeling that you're running out of breath. Without oxygen you can become too stupid to put on your air mask[1], then black out and die without noticing something is wrong. And if you're working in a lab with a cryogenic liquid that spills don't try to be a hero, just get you and your lab-mates out of there. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw

petee 9y ago
The guy who recorded himself didn't even wear the mask properly
- cyberferret 9y ago
  I saw another cabin pic and it looked like NO ONE had their oxygen masks on properly. I wish people would actually listen when the stewardesses say "Place over your nose AND mouth and breath normally". Putting the mask cup over just your mouth is next to useless.
  - gowld 9y ago
    What happens if you don't cover your nose?
    - lutorm 9y ago
      As long as you remember to only breathe through your mouth, nothing. But if you don't, you'll pass out just as quickly as you would without the mask.
    - cyberferret 9y ago
      You essentially won't be getting the oxygen. In reality - those yellow masks are borderline ineffective anyway. You basically need an airtight seal around your entire nose and mouth otherwise the pure O2 will simply vent away. But at the altitudes that commercial aircraft fly at, it is better than nothing. Below about 25,000 feet they provide a little more time before onset of hypoxia, but above 35,000 they would be useless. Best bet if you are at higher altitudes is to hold the mask on as tight as possible and try to eliminate any gaps. If you notice the oxygen masks that the pilots use (and that fighter pilots use), they are a very different beast, and have secure latching mechanisms to hold the mask tightly against your face with NO gaps at all. (Also a reason why beards are banned for flight crew in the air force - can't have ANY gaps where the O2 can leak out). My old flight instructor used to fly jets in the Air Force back in the 50's and 60's, when the cockpits were unpressurised, and he said that at altitudes around 60,000+ feet, if your oxygen mask failed, you had about 1 second of consciousness. In fact, he said at those altitudes, the pressure differential was so great that your diaphragm actually couldn't expand to enable normal breathing, and they used to have liquid oxygen pressure fed through their masks. If they wanted to breath, they just opened their mouth and freezing cold LOX (which vaporised almost instantly at that altitude) would be rammed down their gullets...

gumby 9y ago

I was in an emergency landing (complete with evacuation on the side without an engine fire) in 1990. We didn't have a catastrophic failure like this; there was time to prepare. What really surprised me was how cooperative all the passengers were. In those days emergency rows were given to people who needed extra room, so the flight attendants told the elderly folks in the emergency rows to change seats and recruited youngsters like me (I was 25) to sit there and review how and if to open the window (I was the last-resort option and did not get to actually do it). They collected all our shoes and checked everybody's practice crash position. There was no screaming (except during the rather abrupt landing). And unlike what you see today nobody tried to take their cabin baggage with them (they'd told us to empty our pockets, though I was naughty and kept my passport, which later made life a lot easier for me). One thing is unchanged: I was the first one to leave the arrival hall (this was pre-mobile phones so I wanted to find a phone and get a new flight rather than let the airline deal with it like everyone else did), and there was a camera crew there. I was asked "were you on that flight" and when I said yes they asked, "and how was it?" I said, "exciting but I felt safe the whole time" they switched off the camera, looked annoyed, and went back to watching the exit door. sigh. And I really got a strong lesson in the real purpose of flight attendants.

speg 9y ago
Why did they collect your shoes?
- HeyLaughingBoy 9y ago
  They can damage the escape slides.
  - furyg3 9y ago
    It also just makes sliding easier.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Sounds like a design problem. A covering of woven UHMW HDPE would make the slides more puncture and slash resistant, and could take the "collect passenger shoes" item off the emergency checklist. But that would also make the slides more expensive, so it really all depends on what the airline thinks a dead passenger is worth. Edit: The structural integrity of the slide is provided by pneumatic pressure on a rubber-like material (neoprene?). The thickness of that material could be reduced somewhat if HDPE fibers were added. You're not trying to make the things bulletproof, just shoe-resistant. The end result would be a lighter slide, but it would be an order of magnitude more expensive.

danaliv 9y ago

Approach control recording here - SWA1380 comes in at around the 14-minute mark: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-Arrival-Apr-17-2018-1500Z.mp3 http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kphl/PHL-App-North-Arrival... The captain is cool as a cucumber. The controller is sweating bullets!

scottlamb 9y ago
> The captain is cool as a cucumber. The controller is sweating bullets! Wow, yeah. 17:03: "Now is your airplane physically on fire?" "No, it's not on fire, but part of it's missing."
- dankohn1 9y ago
  16:55: "Use caution for the downtown area." Meaning, don't fly over downtown so that if your plane comes apart you won't kill large numbers of people below you. Pretty intense stuff.
  - schoen 9y ago
    I'm similarly impressed with the captain here, but I disagree with your interpretation of what the approach controller was saying in this case. Pilot: Southwest 1380, we'd like to turn - to start turning inbound. Approach: Southwest 1380, turn, just start turning southbound there. There's a Southwest 737 on a four-mile final. You'll be turning southbound. Start looking for the airport, it's off to your right and slightly behind you there, and altitude is your discretion. Use caution for the downtown area. Maintain, advise you maintain at or above 2200 per the MVA. I believe this is the point, 34 minutes into the flight, at which the pilot then turns southbound toward the airport, passing almost directly over downtown Philadelphia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417/1430Z/KLGA/KDAL https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1380/history/20180417... https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitude_(MVA) https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Minimum_Vectoring_Altitu... "The minimum vectoring altitude in each sector provides 1000 ft above the highest obstruction in non-mountainous areas and 2000 ft above the highest obstacle in designated mountainous areas. The MVA is the lowest altitude that meets obstacle clearance requirements in the airspace specified. " In this the MVA appeared to refer to the controller's instructions for the altitude required to pass 1000 feet above the tallest buildings in the downtown area. Again, the "caution" related to downtown was mentioned in between the controller's statement that the pilot could use her discretion for the altitude and the statement that he "advise[s]" her to "maintain at or above 2200 [feet] for the MVA" in that region. So in context, I believe the controller was just advising the pilot to attempt to maintain enough altitude to pass safely above the downtown buildings, rather than to avoid flying over the downtown area at all. Again, it appears that she did fly over the downtown area as part of her approach. At the time of its southbound turn, the plane was at an elevation of about 3300 feet and then it passed over downtown at an elevation near 2600 feet or so. [Edit: I saw another transcript that said "per the MVA" instead of "for the MVA", and I've corrected my transcript above. This makes me even more convinced that the "caution for the downtown area" refers to an established precaution, although other aircraft might not have a reason to come as close to the downtown buildings on a typical approach.]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

samfriedman 9y ago

One fatality has unfortunately been confirmed. https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/986324611263414272 https://twitter.com/VeronicaRochaLA/status/98632461126341427...

hodgesrm 9y ago

Latest pilot discussion (including armchair pilots) on the incident is available on Professional Pilots Rumour Network at https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion-kphl-after-engine-event.html https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607900-swa1380-diversion....

CivilEngineer 9y ago

This is why they should NOT allow people who can't fit thorough an overwing exit on an airplane. They'd clog the hole and cause everyone else to die.

jordache 9y ago

not really suck, pushed out by the pressure from within the cabin

ASalazarMX 9y ago
Oh, I'm not drinking through a straw, I'm actually pushing the liquid up using the atmosphere.
matthewmacleod 9y ago
What on Earth is sucking, if not force induced by a pressure gradient?

pandasun 9y ago

Video https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512 https://twitter.com/ABC/status/986286318014656512

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

This may be Southwest's first passenger fatality, ever. I say "may" because if a person dies on a flight from a heart attack, it doesn't count in the safety statistics. I suspect that it doesn't count even if the heart attack was plausibly brought on by an in-flight safety incident. But if the woman who was partially sucked out is the one who died (unclear at the time I write this), then it's the first one in corporate history for Southwest. That's impressive. It doesn't make today any less tragic, though...

nunez 9y ago
Did they did in or out of the aircraft after it landed?

xvf22 9y ago

I was surprised to see how many selfies showed people incorrectly wearing their oxygen masks by not covering the nose.

caf 9y ago
They really need to redesign those with an obvious "nose notch".

eddof13 9y ago

I was amazed when I saw that it wasn't Allegiant.

Disruptive_Dave 9y ago

I was on a JetBlue flight from Vegas to NYC years ago, coming back home from a bachelor party. On takeoff I heard a loud pop and just knew, from years of flying, something not-so-great just happened. I was sitting next to a good friend who didn't love flying so I was keeping my cool for him. Long story semi-short, you could tell we were flying in circles pretty quickly. The crew didn't communicate much. It was absolutely fascinating to witness how panic spread throughout the plane, even in mostly silence. Before you knew it, this indescribable wave of anxiety just hung like a cloud. People started looking around, so others did the same. My friend began his descent into full panic attack mode. The college aged girl in front of me started crying. My buddy soaked through his shirt in sweat. People were trying to call and text loved ones to say what might be their goodbyes. There were a few "get me the fuck off this plane right the fuck now!!!!" freakouts. I think they actually helped the situation a bit because most people who were freaking felt better about their lesser level of freak. I don't remember how long it took the crew to tell us what happened, or the partial story. The hydraulics system went down, they said. But we were too big and full of fuel to land at Vegas, so we had to do circles above the desert to burn gas before we could land. I couldn't get why they didn't just go to LAX or something like that. 5 hours we were in the air. The turbulence above the desert is not great. So, you have lack of information, a faulty plane, and the inability to land all happening at once. So...much...vomit. You know what was cool, though? The older gentleman in front of me consoling the college girl. Hugging her, holding her hand, asking her questions about her life to keep her mind busy. Then, pill bottles. That's what I'll always remember. People were passing around their downers for anyone who felt they needed 'em! Finally, we were walked through emergency landing procedures and we went in for the landing. Nobody knew what to expect. I caught a glimpse of all the emergency lights at the far end of the runway, where we were headed. The landing wasn't that bad. We survived. JetBlue told us they'd take care of everyone; cars, hotels, food. Then they told us there was another flight leaving soon for NYC and they automatically rebooked us all on it. Up to us if we took it, though. I've never seen a group of people move that quickly towards the bar. We all did shots. Laughed, told dumb jokes. A crew rented a van to drive back East. I told my panicked buddy that, statistically speaking, he will never take a safer flight in his entire life than this next one. (Joke's on him, I'm a marketer, not a statistician!) We slept like babies on the flight, got into Brooklyn at 7am, hugged and kissed my girlfriend. Edit: Forgot the part where the flight attendant (who was awesome) from the doomed flight ended up sitting in front of us on the next one. We asked her to give it to us straight and she basically said we lost 2 (of 3, if I recall correctly) hydraulics systems, then something else I can't remember. She said in her 17 years of flying it was the closest she ever cam to going down, believing it was a real possibility.

code4tee 9y ago

Crew did a great job with a textbook handling of the situation. It’s a testimaent to the training of the crew that this didn’t turn out worse. Obviously a lot of people are going to be taking a very close look at the engine and what happened there but sounds like the crew did a great job here.

intrasight 9y ago

I always wear my seatbelt when sitting. I also try not to be seated close to the engines since I'm familiar with the damage that an exploding engine can do. What got my attention from these photos is that at flight speed, the shrapnel from an exploding engine is more likely to do damage far back from the point of the explosion. I hadn't considered that before.

animal531 9y ago
Statistically sitting in the back is a bit safer than in the front. After that there are also specific cases where sitting in the middle you are for example more likely to be injured by trolleys or falling luggage. Also sitting close to a door can be important in case a quick exit is needed.

ShanePatrice 9y ago

Any updates, on this amazing landing? One news source reported a man used his back to partially cover up the blown out window. Does anyone know if this was true and if so who was he? If true he risked his life to save others and I'd like to know who he is. Should any of us ever run into trouble on a plane heres hoping we have a pilot as competent as this woman. Great save!