15 ms·

This is the beginning of the Big Churn. Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook. Already even a few more privacy clueless friends family member

by nugi 9y ago

This is the beginning of the Big Churn. Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook. Already even a few more privacy clueless friends family members are deleting their accounts. Adverts were always so low yeild, and fb pages 'because we need one'. Now that is all changing due to perception. The FTC, stocks falling, are further indicatuons of falling trust. And all business is built on trust.

amelius 9y ago
> Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook. I don't necessarily consider myself top-talent, but I'm personally avoiding facebook's open source projects (e.g. React) because I don't approve of their company values.
- manmal 9y ago
  FB‘s open source projects are one of the few things they are doing right, so why avoid them? AFAIK the licenses are ok, so they are interchangeable in the end as maintainers.
  - TAForObvReasons 9y ago
    React may have changed to MIT but React-Native and other projects still use the BSD+Patents license. EDIT: this apparently was fixed last month.
    - focuser 9y ago
      React Native has been updated to MIT too: https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/LICENSE
    - mecha9 9y ago
      Actually now React Native uses the MIT license, this was changed in February: https://github.com/facebook/react-native/commit/26684cf3adf4094eb6c405d345a75bf8c7c0bf88 https://github.com/facebook/react-native/commit/26684cf3adf4...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - amelius 9y ago
    It's not the quality of the code I'm concerned about. It's more a matter of principle, and the fact that every use of their software possibly contributes to their reputation and appeal to highly qualified developers.
    - newnewpdro 9y ago
      Yep, participation is a form of advocacy.
  - tomc1985 9y ago
    > AFAIK the licenses are ok What about that patent license noncompetition thing? That's cool? Or did that get pulled?
    - sushid 9y ago
      It's been changed. https://code.facebook.com/posts/300798627056246/relicensing-react-jest-flow-and-immutable-js/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/300798627056246/relicensing-...
      - murph-almighty 9y ago
        It's only been changed for their most popular projects, though.
juicy-fruit 9y ago
>Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook How certain is this? Whether you like what Facebook does or not, you can't deny their engineering talent is top tier. I don't even use Facebook but I'd still want to work there just to work with the people there and the environment. Companies like Facebook and Google are pretty engineer friendly, more so than other companies. I don't think this event will be the tipping point for top talent to leave Facebook.
- whatshisface 9y ago
  If top talent working somewhere was enough to keep top talent from leaving, then no company that employed top talent would ever loose their position without missing payroll.
  - juicy-fruit 9y ago
    You have a valid point. Top talent existed in places like Silicon Graphics, Yahoo, etc. I guess you're right, the top probably got off the sinking ship long before the rest of the crew realized what was happening. However, I still think this event is not "bad" enough for the crew to start fleeing. This is a bump in the road. People may hate Facebook but people sure do love Instagram, WhatsApp and Oculus. Facebook has a pretty strong moat (for now at least).
    - nerfhammer 9y ago
      Top talent has a bazillion dollars locked in stock options that have appreciated several hundred percent over the past few years.
- goalieca 9y ago
  If facebook’s engineering talent is top tier, then how come I have to recommend to everyone to delete that awful battery draining app.
  - radicalbyte 9y ago
fossuser 9y ago
Oh please - the overreaction from this is ridiculous. I'm buying FB call options. Facebook's network effect is extremely strong - this is also not even including their other assets (Instagram, Whatsapp, Oculus). The API access was in violation of terms of service and the ability to access data through friends via the FB graph has already been closed.
- chrischen 9y ago
  Yes, Facebook's current network is fairly strong, but you shouldn't look to where the masses currently are, you should look to where the trendsetters, the young, and the people in the know—where they are. These people are ahead of the curve, and the signs they are emitting is that Facebook is not serving their interests and needs. Young people don't want to use facebook because it forces you to interact with everyone, including parents and people out of your circle. Privacy conscious people and many at the forefront of technology all either personally avoid and limit facebook usage or keep their children away from it (if they aren't already disinterested in the first place). Yes Facebook allows you to "fix" these issues with enough configurations, but then why would a new user go through the hassle of all that when they could just install snapchat or instagram (yes I know facebook owns this, but it's not facebook). So unless there's a fundamental shift in its business model and allure, its trajectory will be doomed. It doesn't mean Facebook the company will fail, but it does mean that the Facebook product—what it is in its current form—has a finite shelf life.
  - bad_good_guy 9y ago
    Those people are on Instagram and WhatsApp...
    - chrischen 9y ago
      > "(yes I know facebook owns this, but it's not facebook)"
  - 734786710934 9y ago
    Facebook has no serious competition at the moment other than Snapchat. Young people are still using Instagram and Messenger. Ironically, the calls for regulation might actually end up helping Facebook in the end as they will make the barriers to entry higher.
user5994461 9y ago
Doesn't matter. New users stopped going to Facebook years ago. Teenagers can't be where their parents are. The hype is Instagram now, which was incidentally bought by Facebook. A brilliant move.
- chrischen 9y ago
  It looked like a brilliant move but they bought out quite a few social networks. But Instagram can't save facebook (the website), though it may save Facebook the company.
brailsafe 9y ago
While I'm not top talent, and haven't been pursued by Facebook, I've always wondered why anyone would want to be associated with them. Other than as a status symbol in tech. I've never thought of them as anything less than a reprehensible company.
- claudenm 9y ago
  Very good compensation is one reason I can think of.
  - brailsafe 9y ago
    Right but that's kind of irrelevant isn't it? Perhaps a semantic detail, but Donald Trump could hypothetically pay me as much as he wanted but it wouldn't change my desire to have his name next to mine.
  - runevault 9y ago
    I'd think most people who get major comp from FB could also get it from a lot of the other big players.
    - asfasgasg 9y ago
      Facebook is known for being a little more profligate with their spending, especially for senior and up. On the other hand, they will fire you faster. I have heard that Netflix is even more in that direction, if "excitement" is something you desire in the domain of "whether you will be employed tomorrow or not."
  - j79 9y ago
    Yep, my brother decided to join Facebook in a non-tech role (admittedly, right before the #deletefacebook movement began), and it was purely for the compensation. He even joked he had joined "the dark side". I've been off Facebook since 2011, so it was a bit disappointing. But, the compensation was the highest out of the companies he got offers from (Google, Stripe, etc.), so I don't blame him.
htormey 9y ago
Top ten free apps on the US AppStore have largely remained the same through out this current scandal: 1) YouTube 2) Instagram 3) messenger 4) google maps 5) Snapchat 6) Facebook 7) Netflix 8) Bitmoji (Snapchat) 9) Gmail 10) Spotify These apps change when something major happens. When storms happen you see weather and walkie talkie apps shoot to the top. In sports seasons you see sports apps for baseball/football etc shoot up. When crypto was going crazy over Xmas, coinbase was number one for a few days. Back to school prompts education apps to go to the top for a while. The public doesn’t seem to care enough to ditch social media apps right now. Either that or perhaps a good alternative doesn’t exist yet.
- owenversteeg 9y ago
  Do walkie talkie apps actually shoot to the "top"? I assume that requires massive amounts of downloads in a huge geographical region, for example tornadoes in one part of the country might only affect 20MM of 320MM people in the US. Even if there were twenty times as many people downloading walkie talkie apps, that wouldn't put them close to Facebook. In particular, I'd love to see detailed statistics on top free apps, changes, and what causes them.
  - htormey 9y ago
    Here is a story on the walkie talkie app I mentioned: http://www.businessinsider.com/zello-walkie-talkie-tops-app-store-ahead-hurricane-irma-2017-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/zello-walkie-talkie-tops-app-... Unfortunately I don’t have any good articles to hand on seasonality and the App Store. I’m mobile developer so I follow the App Store rankings throughout the year. It’s something you definitely notice.
throwawaylalala 9y ago
"Adverts were always so low yeild" - Maybe for large corps, but FB is by far the best advertising platform for smaller companies that don't just shovel money at ads.
nkkollaw 9y ago
This will last another week _at the most_. People don't pay attention to things forever. You ever read about net neutrality..? Just wait until the media shift to the next big obsession, and everything will be back to normal.
lopmotr 9y ago
The share price is now the same as it was mid last year. That means investors are just as confident now as they were then. What information do you have that they don't? Surely you're not claiming to be smarter than them?
some_account 9y ago
Facebook wasn't built on trust, obviously. I would rather say it was built on the ignorance of the masses. There are a few people who never created a Facebook account, because they understood the consequence of a big American platform having all your contacts and activities.
HenryBemis 9y ago
Regarding the stock price -exactly just because I am 'shorting 'it- (betting that it will drop for the non-traders), it is now a good 'BUY' opportunity. If FB gets serious about putting their ducks in order, they will end up even better than before. And I hope they do so, so that others can also learn that honesty and ethics DO pay in life.
heedlessly2 9y ago
nope, this will all just be a blip. I don't like FB, but they'll bounce back eventually. FB needs a good rival that its users will flock to, but that doesn't exist. Twitter is filled with spambots and is more oriented towards a public experience. Snapchat is geared towards the younger generation and is primarily image/video based.

by nugi 9y ago

amelius 9y ago

> Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook. I don't necessarily consider myself top-talent, but I'm personally avoiding facebook's open source projects (e.g. React) because I don't approve of their company values.

manmal 9y ago
FB‘s open source projects are one of the few things they are doing right, so why avoid them? AFAIK the licenses are ok, so they are interchangeable in the end as maintainers.
- TAForObvReasons 9y ago
  React may have changed to MIT but React-Native and other projects still use the BSD+Patents license. EDIT: this apparently was fixed last month.
  - focuser 9y ago
    React Native has been updated to MIT too: https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/LICENSE
  - mecha9 9y ago
    Actually now React Native uses the MIT license, this was changed in February: https://github.com/facebook/react-native/commit/26684cf3adf4094eb6c405d345a75bf8c7c0bf88 https://github.com/facebook/react-native/commit/26684cf3adf4...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- amelius 9y ago
  It's not the quality of the code I'm concerned about. It's more a matter of principle, and the fact that every use of their software possibly contributes to their reputation and appeal to highly qualified developers.
  - newnewpdro 9y ago
    Yep, participation is a form of advocacy.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  > AFAIK the licenses are ok What about that patent license noncompetition thing? That's cool? Or did that get pulled?
  - sushid 9y ago
    It's been changed. https://code.facebook.com/posts/300798627056246/relicensing-react-jest-flow-and-immutable-js/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/300798627056246/relicensing-...
    - murph-almighty 9y ago
      It's only been changed for their most popular projects, though.

juicy-fruit 9y ago

>Less top talent will want to be associated with facebook How certain is this? Whether you like what Facebook does or not, you can't deny their engineering talent is top tier. I don't even use Facebook but I'd still want to work there just to work with the people there and the environment. Companies like Facebook and Google are pretty engineer friendly, more so than other companies. I don't think this event will be the tipping point for top talent to leave Facebook.

whatshisface 9y ago
If top talent working somewhere was enough to keep top talent from leaving, then no company that employed top talent would ever loose their position without missing payroll.
- juicy-fruit 9y ago
  You have a valid point. Top talent existed in places like Silicon Graphics, Yahoo, etc. I guess you're right, the top probably got off the sinking ship long before the rest of the crew realized what was happening. However, I still think this event is not "bad" enough for the crew to start fleeing. This is a bump in the road. People may hate Facebook but people sure do love Instagram, WhatsApp and Oculus. Facebook has a pretty strong moat (for now at least).
  - nerfhammer 9y ago
    Top talent has a bazillion dollars locked in stock options that have appreciated several hundred percent over the past few years.
goalieca 9y ago
If facebook’s engineering talent is top tier, then how come I have to recommend to everyone to delete that awful battery draining app.
- radicalbyte 9y ago

fossuser 9y ago

Oh please - the overreaction from this is ridiculous. I'm buying FB call options. Facebook's network effect is extremely strong - this is also not even including their other assets (Instagram, Whatsapp, Oculus). The API access was in violation of terms of service and the ability to access data through friends via the FB graph has already been closed.

chrischen 9y ago
Yes, Facebook's current network is fairly strong, but you shouldn't look to where the masses currently are, you should look to where the trendsetters, the young, and the people in the know—where they are. These people are ahead of the curve, and the signs they are emitting is that Facebook is not serving their interests and needs. Young people don't want to use facebook because it forces you to interact with everyone, including parents and people out of your circle. Privacy conscious people and many at the forefront of technology all either personally avoid and limit facebook usage or keep their children away from it (if they aren't already disinterested in the first place). Yes Facebook allows you to "fix" these issues with enough configurations, but then why would a new user go through the hassle of all that when they could just install snapchat or instagram (yes I know facebook owns this, but it's not facebook). So unless there's a fundamental shift in its business model and allure, its trajectory will be doomed. It doesn't mean Facebook the company will fail, but it does mean that the Facebook product—what it is in its current form—has a finite shelf life.
- bad_good_guy 9y ago
  Those people are on Instagram and WhatsApp...
  - chrischen 9y ago
    > "(yes I know facebook owns this, but it's not facebook)"
- 734786710934 9y ago
  Facebook has no serious competition at the moment other than Snapchat. Young people are still using Instagram and Messenger. Ironically, the calls for regulation might actually end up helping Facebook in the end as they will make the barriers to entry higher.

user5994461 9y ago

Doesn't matter. New users stopped going to Facebook years ago. Teenagers can't be where their parents are. The hype is Instagram now, which was incidentally bought by Facebook. A brilliant move.

chrischen 9y ago
It looked like a brilliant move but they bought out quite a few social networks. But Instagram can't save facebook (the website), though it may save Facebook the company.

brailsafe 9y ago

While I'm not top talent, and haven't been pursued by Facebook, I've always wondered why anyone would want to be associated with them. Other than as a status symbol in tech. I've never thought of them as anything less than a reprehensible company.

claudenm 9y ago
Very good compensation is one reason I can think of.
- brailsafe 9y ago
  Right but that's kind of irrelevant isn't it? Perhaps a semantic detail, but Donald Trump could hypothetically pay me as much as he wanted but it wouldn't change my desire to have his name next to mine.
- runevault 9y ago
  I'd think most people who get major comp from FB could also get it from a lot of the other big players.
  - asfasgasg 9y ago
    Facebook is known for being a little more profligate with their spending, especially for senior and up. On the other hand, they will fire you faster. I have heard that Netflix is even more in that direction, if "excitement" is something you desire in the domain of "whether you will be employed tomorrow or not."
- j79 9y ago
  Yep, my brother decided to join Facebook in a non-tech role (admittedly, right before the #deletefacebook movement began), and it was purely for the compensation. He even joked he had joined "the dark side". I've been off Facebook since 2011, so it was a bit disappointing. But, the compensation was the highest out of the companies he got offers from (Google, Stripe, etc.), so I don't blame him.

htormey 9y ago

Top ten free apps on the US AppStore have largely remained the same through out this current scandal: 1) YouTube 2) Instagram 3) messenger 4) google maps 5) Snapchat 6) Facebook 7) Netflix 8) Bitmoji (Snapchat) 9) Gmail 10) Spotify These apps change when something major happens. When storms happen you see weather and walkie talkie apps shoot to the top. In sports seasons you see sports apps for baseball/football etc shoot up. When crypto was going crazy over Xmas, coinbase was number one for a few days. Back to school prompts education apps to go to the top for a while. The public doesn’t seem to care enough to ditch social media apps right now. Either that or perhaps a good alternative doesn’t exist yet.

owenversteeg 9y ago
Do walkie talkie apps actually shoot to the "top"? I assume that requires massive amounts of downloads in a huge geographical region, for example tornadoes in one part of the country might only affect 20MM of 320MM people in the US. Even if there were twenty times as many people downloading walkie talkie apps, that wouldn't put them close to Facebook. In particular, I'd love to see detailed statistics on top free apps, changes, and what causes them.
- htormey 9y ago
  Here is a story on the walkie talkie app I mentioned: http://www.businessinsider.com/zello-walkie-talkie-tops-app-store-ahead-hurricane-irma-2017-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/zello-walkie-talkie-tops-app-... Unfortunately I don’t have any good articles to hand on seasonality and the App Store. I’m mobile developer so I follow the App Store rankings throughout the year. It’s something you definitely notice.

throwawaylalala 9y ago

"Adverts were always so low yeild" - Maybe for large corps, but FB is by far the best advertising platform for smaller companies that don't just shovel money at ads.

nkkollaw 9y ago

This will last another week _at the most_. People don't pay attention to things forever. You ever read about net neutrality..? Just wait until the media shift to the next big obsession, and everything will be back to normal.

lopmotr 9y ago

The share price is now the same as it was mid last year. That means investors are just as confident now as they were then. What information do you have that they don't? Surely you're not claiming to be smarter than them?

some_account 9y ago

Facebook wasn't built on trust, obviously. I would rather say it was built on the ignorance of the masses. There are a few people who never created a Facebook account, because they understood the consequence of a big American platform having all your contacts and activities.

HenryBemis 9y ago

Regarding the stock price -exactly just because I am 'shorting 'it- (betting that it will drop for the non-traders), it is now a good 'BUY' opportunity. If FB gets serious about putting their ducks in order, they will end up even better than before. And I hope they do so, so that others can also learn that honesty and ethics DO pay in life.

heedlessly2 9y ago

nope, this will all just be a blip. I don't like FB, but they'll bounce back eventually. FB needs a good rival that its users will flock to, but that doesn't exist. Twitter is filled with spambots and is more oriented towards a public experience. Snapchat is geared towards the younger generation and is primarily image/video based.