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Sex Workers Say Porn on Google Drive Is Suddenly Disappearing
- tyingq 9y ago“I'm still stressing about finding a way around this" Uh, find a non US file sharing site? There are many, but, for example: https://yandex.com/support/disk/ https://yandex.com/support/disk/
- gambiting 9y agoOr share files zipped with a password.
- make3 9y agoor any type of encryption
- mdekkers 9y agoor dont use google
- Terr_ 9y agoSilly idea: Use some trivial transformation on the files, call it "DRM" and if Google tries to decipher them anyway they are in violation of the DMCA.
- tyingq 9y agoRot13 plus a simple DO hosted proxy that "decrypts" it? Sounds like about 2 hours of work.
- shiado 9y agoThe file OR'd with a string of 0s is the most legit anti-circumvention algorithm.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoAre we still talking about using Google to host content that's against their ToS? Suing them in such circumstances seems unlikely to end well for you.
- 13of40 9y agoI've lately wondered whether if Google decrypted your traffic to look for naughty stuff or stuff they could index it would be a violation of federal wiretapping laws, similar to receiving and decrypting radio communications intended for someone else. E.g. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/605 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/605
- CodesInChaos 9y agoThough it better not be a standard password: http://www.ghettoforensics.com/2014/02/google-actively-scanning-malware-emails.html http://www.ghettoforensics.com/2014/02/google-actively-scann...
- 013a 9y agoCost is probably prohibitive if you're storing/sharing lots of large files, like videos. Very few file sharing sites could store terabytes of files at a cost as low as Google.
- tyingq 9y agoYandex is cheap: https://disk.yandex.com/pay/tariffs/ https://disk.yandex.com/pay/tariffs/ Their 1TB plan is $10 higher per year than Google Drive. 10% higher premium to be free of censorship. That's not bad. Aliyun or OVH or online.net may even have something cheaper.
- Spooky23 9y agoTalk about jumping frI’m the frying pan to the fire.
- zokier 9y agoProbably doesn't need to be even non-US. Based on very quick search on AWS ToS it seems like they don't care if you use S3 for porn. Only SNS is explicitly forbidding "adult services" for some reason.
- sp332 9y agoI'm a little surprised that porn is against Google Drive's ToS, but I'm very surprised that they actively have algorithms seeking it out to delete it. Usually service providers don't go looking for trouble and will only review content once there's a complaint.
- throwaway4719 9y agoGoogle is however nowadays staffed by activists.
- s2g 9y agoI think it's less about that and more about Google going having a fear of being called out. What's worse, pissing off a few people or getting accused of distributing porn and contributing to the gun problem. They know how much they fucked up in 2016.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tsomctl 9y agoI'm surprised they're doing this, because it could open them up to legal liability. If they have the technology to do this, then arguably they have the technology to detect child abuse or other crimes and would be liable for hosting it. If they didn't have this technology, then if they are accused of hosting illegal stuff, they can just shrug and say there's nothing they can do. Or, like you said, remove individual items after a complaint.
- codezero 9y agoThey do detect child abuse imagery and report it to the appropriate agencies.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- 9y ago
- lucb1e 9y agoI've heard the same of Onedrive and even instant messaging in Skype. If it's against the ToS and it's not end to end encrypted, it seems nobody minds scanning it with bots and, if you're lucky, reviewing it with humans.
- ZWoz 9y agoArticle mentions reason, but very briefly: FOSTA and SESTA. Google don't like officially mention it, some other sites, like craigslist[1] are more open. --- [1] https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA
- 2bitencryption 9y agodoes this have to do with that controversial bill that was recently passed? wondering what the long-term, far-reaching ramifications might be. could this be a sample of things to come? (not to sound ominous or anything)
- gnicholas 9y agoI can see all the major cloud storage players doing the same. But there’s always Firefox Send!
- BadassFractal 9y agoSeems like a great opportunity for starting competitor services in places like Switzerland, Malta etc. Charge a premium for it.
- tl 9y agoI’m 12 / 15 GB on the free plan and considering upgrading to paid. If Google is now “intelligently” flagging content, I want to store my personal content elsewhere, regardless of its nature. Who’s not being stupid here? Apple? Should I go back to my Synology?
- BadassFractal 9y agoSpiderOak's plans are pretty cheap. Also you could use S3+Glacier for storing just about anything. I would be surprised if AWS scanned your files for "inappropriate" content.
- secabeen 9y agoYeah, probably. The AUP for Amazon (including S3) has this restriction: >Offensive Content. Content that is defamatory, obscene, abusive, invasive of privacy, or otherwise objectionable, including content that constitutes child pornography, relates to bestiality, or depicts non-consensual sex acts. So, most pornography should be okay.
- Spooky23 9y agoObscene is always problematic, as it’s measured against a “community standard”. What’s ok in San Francisco may not be in Mobile.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- fulafel 9y ago"otherwise objectionable" is a catch-all.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> So, most pornography should be okay. Most pornography could probably fall into a reasonable reading of “obscene, ..., or otherwise objectionable”.
- akvadrako 9y agoI never thought cloud storage providers would actually do this - they are at least supposed to pretend they are respecting your privacy. Yet even Apple says this: > Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time [1] I'm definitely in the market for a good e2e encrypted cloud storage solution. [1] https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/t...
- michaelt 9y agoI never thought cloud storage providers would actually do this A lot of cloud storage providers actually attempt to fulfil multiple roles: Backup, sharing files between your computers/tablets/phones, and... letting people share files by giving out download links. Perfectly reasonable feature - many people want to share files too big to e-mail. But adding that feature changes the nature of the storage company's business, from being like a warehouse to being like a publisher. If I have a blog and I embed a video, is there any difference between a Google Drive hosted video and an unlisted Youtube-hosted video?
- IAmEveryone 9y agoModeration does not have an impact on the service's legal liabilities, at least not as far as criminal law is concerned. Search Decency Act in this thread for the details. It's slightly ambiguous currently with regards to copyright law because of a recent decision, but the DMCA safe harbor provisions obviously had the same intent: it'd be counter-intuitive to make providers suffer for trying to do the right thing.
- michaelt 9y agoI'm not saying anything about legal liability. Youtube might have decided not to host porn as a pure business decision - e.g. so workplace and school content filters won't block youtube.com as pornographic. Khan Academy and suchlike couldn't host with youtube if it meant you couldn't access their videos from schools! Once Google has made the business decision that they don't share pornographic videos on youtube.com, it seems reasonable they wouldn't allow them to be shared via drive.google.com either.
- gnicholas 9y agoSeeing this and simultaneously hearing about what YouTube is doing with certain firearm-related content makes me wonder whether we’re on — or at least near — a slippery slope. I can certainly see limiting videos that are illegal (child porn) or that describe things that are illegal throughout the US (converting semiautomatic weapons into automatic). But banning videos of adult pornography and showing legal firearm-related content is a different beast. A private company surely has the right to decide not to host such content, but consumers can likewise consider whether they want to do business with (including giving unfettered access to email and search queries) a company that proceeds down this slippery slope. To be clear, I’m not saying we’ve slid down the slope at this point, just that we appear to be perched on/near it.
- twblalock 9y agoIt seems like you're arguing that we are about to slide down a slippery slope of... companies and consumers both doing things they have a right to do?
- gnicholas 9y agoYep, google appears to be on the brink. And yep, consumers have the right to jump ship when google goes too far (in their opinion). Basically, we should make sure not to be a frog that gets boiled (to throw in another metaphor).
- xevb3k 9y agoThe frog metaphor is false (in the sense that frogs do actually jump out, regardless of how slow the water is boiled) [1]. But I think it’s also false in many of the contexts where it’s applied. People do notice change, even if it happens slowly. They’re just not always able to do anything about it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
- scarface74 9y agoI am not pro gun by any stretch of the imagination, but when I heard YouTube was banning firearm related content it made me real uneasy. I didn't have as much of a problem with a crack down on hate speech. I know a lot of people who I would consider gun enthusiasts that wouldn't hurt anyone unless they weren't given a choice.
- elorant 9y agoThey could just torrent the files between themselves. Add a password too and you're good to go.
- swiley 9y agoI don't think torrent works behind a NAT? Which is probably worse if you're not in the US/EU. There's syncthing but then you're using volunteer's bandwidth. TOR+httpd is the same.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y agoTorrents are fine behind NAT. Heck, I don't know anybody not behind a router doing NAT (ex. 192.168/16 to public IP).
- awirth 9y agoThat sounds like a privacy nightmare.
- netsharc 9y agoShe could use MEGA, that has encryption. Or just to piss off Google, she could encrypt the file before sharing it. But that might be too technical for sender, and receiver. I once tried to send a zip file of a webapp I coded (HTML and JS) through GMail, and it wouldn't let me, because those 2 files are considered harmful, even if inside a zip. So I renamed the file's extension to "itsazip" and it worked... Maybe she should just change the video file's extension to ".notporn"
- golem14 9y agoIs it actually true? There could be lots of other possible reasons like running out of quota or too large attachments...
- tombrossman 9y agoStartup idea: Managed Nextcloud instances with (optionally) their integrated AWS S3 backend storage. Nextcloud's sharing UX is dead simple and intuitive using the web interface, with the option to password protect and/or expire the sharing link. The porn industry is often cited as being innovative / early adopters. As nerds let's help them demonstrate why self-hosting and decentralized tech is the way forward.
- swiley 9y agosftp (ssh) works out of the box with the GUI shell (nautilus?) on most GNU/Linux distros. It just looks like a network drive. webdav is the same but ALL popular OSes support it, I really don't understand why more people don't use that as it doesn't get any simpler. You don't even need a browser. EDIT: the reply here is dead (?) I don't agree with it (really at all, IMO google drive has one of the worst most confusing UIs ever, that seems to be an intensely objective thing) but some others might and I don't find it offensive: >I couldn't use webdav without going to find out how to use webdav. >I can figure out google drive in a minute. So can she. So can her paying customers.
- tombrossman 9y agoThis is like the infamous Dropbox comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 Presumably it would be marketed to 'Adult' performers, some of who will be technically minded and understand how to use SSH, but Nextcloud will have wider appeal and includes an easy to navigate GUI. Personally, I'm using both but I don't expect everyone to do the same.
- AlexeyBrin 9y agoI really don't understand why more people don't use that as it doesn't get any simpler. You don't even need a browser. Most people lack the technical knowledge to install/configure the required infrastructure on an external server.
- swiley 9y ago
- rcMgD2BwE72F 9y agoI've been using [Syncthing](https://syncthing.net/ https://syncthing.net/) as a replacement for Google Drive. It isn't a cloud storage service (it's a FOSS P2P synchronizing solution) but after a few changes of habits, I find it just perfect. I use it to sync many folders between my Android phone, my Android TV and multiple Mac (work and perso). I have folders for Music ($ cd ~/Music;youtube-dl <url>), for Movies (idem, with from phone or laptop to be sent directly to Kodi on my Android TV!), for my passwords (in KeepassXC databases), for my notes and todo files (with todotxt-cli and todo.txt apps on Android), etc. Except for a few Google Sheets (only for work), I'm now completely Drive free :) The only services for which I don't have an alternative yet are: - Search (I'm currently testing Qwant and now using Wikipedia/Widata more and more), but I'd be OK with Google if I only used it for Web searching - Gmail. I'm not at-ease with ProtonMail (yet) and not at ease with self-hosting - Contacts and Calendar. I'm considering setting up an OwnCloud instance but haven't yet chosen a trustful hosting company.
- Jare 9y agoSyncthing is great, I've been using it at home for several years. My only trouble is I don't have any of my computers always on and I'm too lazy to root my NAS, so there's a chance of conflicts, but a little discipline takes care of it.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 9y agoMe neither (re always-on computers) but since I always have my phone with me, all my computers get automatically synced as I move near them. Syncthing is set to only turn on on some preset Wifi networks, to which these computers/boxes are connected. So when I arrive at work, my Work and Music folders get synced in seconds. And when I come back home, Music and Todo files (and others) get synced with my personal computers via my phone. I also have the Photos/Camera folder of my Android phone synced in "send only" to my TV and Macbook. I just don't need cloud services or backups anymore. It's always synced (with a trash settings so deleted files are kept for some time, in case of any mistake). All my devices are synced together, via my phone or just P2P. And if I lose my phone, I will probably not care. I'm really surprise Syncthing is not super popular already, at least among tech friendly people. It works so well and has very little effect on my devices batteries (they are only set to sync when I'm on known Wifi networks, which means that I have a power plug nearby anyway).
- grinsekatze 9y ago> “Do not publish sexually explicit or pornographic images or videos. Writing about adult topics is permitted as long as it is not accompanied by sexually explicit images or videos, or any material that promotes or depicts unlawful or inappropriate sexual acts with children or animals. Additionally, we do not allow content that drives traffic to commercial pornography. > We do allow naturalistic and documentary depictions of nudity (such as an image of a breastfeeding infant), as well as depictions of nudity that serve a clear educational, scientific, or artistic purpose.” I don’t understand the fuss being made. It is clearly stated that sexual content is not allowed. Just because sharing pornography isn’t illegal does not mean that it should be allowed on every platform on which it is possible. Instead of violating TOS of a service they could just use a service that doesn’t prohibit pornography?
- Consultant32452 9y agoBurning books is not illegal, but we are rightfully appalled when someone publicly burns books. This is book burning.
- JshWright 9y agoAre you appalled if someone says "hey, I'm gonna burn any books in this box", then people put books in that box? This content is explicitly against Google's published ToS.
- stagbeetle 9y ago"Here's a box where you can put all your books in to make sure they're protected against any disaster." "Here's also a long list of rules and conditions to this box. We know you won't read it." "Can I get a quick rundown on what I can and can't do?" "No." "Alright, sounds good to me." Fast forward 4 months: "Hey, it looks like I'm missing a few books here, what's the deal?" "We said you couldn't have anything about: [insert political side here], guns, chemistry, sexual acts outside of marriage." "What, no you didn't." "You agreed to the terms and conditions." Thanks, Satan.
- throwaway84742 9y agoInteresting question: how does Google figure out if it’s porn or not? Do they have people reviewing my personal data? I work in computer vision, and while you can detect porn automatically, there are always false positives. Ie someone takes a pic or video of their kids taking a bath, and the algorithm may mistake it for child porn. If it’s fully automatic, it could delete a priceless video, but if it’s not, some dude in a cubicle somewhere could be jacking off to the video of your kids taking a bath.
- zokier 9y agoI suspect there is manual review. But I also suspect that the threshold for triggering that would be pretty high, and a single positive detection would not yet be enough. Sure, false positives happen, but I imagine that repeated false positives would be diminishingly rare.
- dahdum 9y agoSo Google will look at any nude or sexy images someone stores as backup, in order to make a determination to delete? Walking a tight rope of PR disaster if they get too strict, and the news they scan and manually check is just the kind of outrage the public is expecting.
- probably_wrong 9y agoI imagine they have some extra data that gives the algorithm an extra push. How many files in this folder are flagged as porn? Which percentage of the user's files are flagged as such? Do these files match any of our hashes of known illegal content? In other cases, I can imagine an employee reviewing borderline cases. I can also imagine that the person in charge, rather than jacking off to those pictures, might be drinking whisky from the bottle to forget what he sees every day. But I imagine that Google would rather delete the data and shrug - they are not known for their love of human reviewers (see You tube's strike system).
- zokier 9y agoI feel bit less sympathetic for them considering that they are running a business here and it is pretty explicitly and directly against Google Drive ToS. It is not even that surprising that it is forbidden in ToS, so I would say if you are in the porn business it is your due diligence to check this sort of thing.
- quotemstr 9y agoC.S. Lewis once wrote: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."
- cjslep 9y agoSomeone forgot to take their soma. A gramme is better than giving a damn.
- rajacombinator 9y agoA nice quote and it sounds true - certainly robber barons are preferable to sjws - but doesn’t tell the whole story. The sjw tyrant he’s describing forms the “useful idiot” phalanx of the ones pulling the strings. Those kind of people (sjw types) simply aren’t clever enough to orchestrate the kind of long term plots needed to take control. The ones in charge are fully aware of what they’re doing, and they exhibit a cold calculating efficiency that seems inhuman.
- malnourish 9y agoPlease stop with this "SJW" nonsense
- autismo 9y agoDespite some questionable uses of that word, I have to admit that it's a useful classifier for what has essentially become a consolidated political movement. Everyone seems to know the ideology it's describing when they hear it, and I don't know of another term that does that. On another tangent: "SJW" was originally coined by social justice warriors as a way to describe themselves. It only became an offensive word once people started lampooning it, but it's still a fair term to use given its history and original intent.
- coupdetaco 9y agoI commented that "The memes are here to stay" on linkedin yesterday and it was quietly disappeared.
- karag 9y agoI wonder how many google employees are actively watching porn, 75% 55% 25% ? it's anyway hypocrite to censure something as much as widely used by everyone just for the sake of american puritanism
- erikb 9y agoWhy is it oppresive? Web storage is a service, not a human right. What do you think people did before Google Drive? Apparently the location where school children put their homeworks might not be the right storage location for porn. Why not pay a storage service that is focussing on the adult industry?
- merb 9y agoA lot of people have so many theories about it. But maybe it's simple? Google ran out of Storage! Deleting all porn on Google Drive will probably redeem 50% of their storage. (or more)
- noobermin 9y agoThis is likely connected the FOSTA and SESTA recently being passed by the senate. Many sex worker rights groups have spoken out against these bills as having a chilling effect on sex workers.
- dawnerd 9y agoSo the problem here is sharing the files out of your drive account. It’s been known for a while that once you share/create a link it gets reviewed by whatever magic algorithms they have.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 9y agoSESTA-FOSTA strikes again...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- yepguy 9y agoWhy can Google even see the plaintext of users' Google Drive? This is an obvious architectural issue.
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoCan't sell ads targeted with data you can't read. Zero knowledge systems don't work for ad companies.
- freax4evar 9y agoUsers forget passwords. Sometimes frequently. If data is lost every time a user forgets their password, that could cause them more immediate harm than good. With that said, I'm in full agreement. End-to-end encryption of user data seems like it would solve plenty of problems on their end (with the exception of monetization).
- pmarreck 9y agoJust use MEGA (mega.co.nz). It's 50gb free and end-to-end encrypted, so even MEGA can't see your stuff. Upload your file, right click on it, copy link with key, paste link to whoever.
- yani 9y agoWhat if the story with megaupload repeats
- pmarreck 9y agoi'm sorry?
- grzm 9y agoI believe your parent is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload_legal_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload_legal_case
- pmarreck 9y agobut that was "megaupload". This is "MEGA". A new service.
- grzm 9y agoRight. You comment "i'm sorry?" can mean a lot of things, one of which is that you're not aware of what megaupload was, which is why I added my comment. Granted, you may have intended something else, but there wasn't much to work with and my intent was only to aid in possible miscommunication. I believe they're worried that the same thing that happened to megaupload will happen to Mega, particularly as Mega is a relaunch of megaupload. I don't know details, but are there reasons to believe that can't happen? For example, differences in how Mega is structured legally or their TOS or limitations on uploads? I don't think it's an unreasonable concern, but like I said, it's not something I know a lot about. If you know more about it, please do share.
- Myrmornis 9y agoIf the TOS states clearly that such content is not allowed (which it seems it does) then what’s the story?
- yani 9y agoThey violated the use policy that they agreed when signing up. I do not understand why this needs an article. Storing files on any drive that is not permitted will result in the same if not termination of the contract.
- lurquer 9y agoThe poor girl can't use Google to send her friend a video of her sucking a penis. Tragic. We should create a system where, for less than $0.50, you can have a DVD of your blowjob video hand-delivered to whomever you wish. Just imagine... that would be revolutionary. You could even have every person have their own personal little box where such blow-job videos could be delivered. It's just a fantasy, I guess. Such a thing is far beyond our current state of technology.
- ars 9y agoHow sure are we that this is really happening? Last time someone accused Google of deleting stuff on their drive it turned out not to be the case.
- nvahalik 9y agoSo if Google starts taking it's ToS seriously and starts removing items that are flagged... how long until we start seeing people flagging items that they don't like as "hate speech" (which is also included in the list[0] provided in an another comment). I mean, at least with porn there really isn't much of a question about whether a piece of content is sexual or not. But hate speech? Depending on the person you talk to, one piece of content that is totally acceptable to a wide group of people might be considered "hate speech" by a some minority or other group of people who take a hardline view against someone else. Who gets to decide what is or is not hate speech? That is, who gets to determine which ideas are or are not acceptable? Does that not scare anyone else just as much (or more)? [0]: https://support.google.com/docs/answer/148505?hl=en https://support.google.com/docs/answer/148505?hl=en
- paulcole 9y agoDid you expand “Hate Speech”? Their definition is pretty clear, “But we do not support content that promotes or condones violence against individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, nationality, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity, or whose primary purpose is inciting hatred on the basis of these core characteristics. This can be a delicate balancing act, but if the primary purpose is to attack a protected group, the content crosses the line.
- CaptSpify 9y ago> I mean, at least with porn there really isn't much of a question about whether a piece of content is sexual or not I'm sorry, but there is a huge historical precedent that says otherwise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it
- johnnymonster 9y agoSounds like a great business opportunity to me. I’m sure someone like pornhub or xvideos would love to charge 9.99 a month to store and allow private video/file sharing.
- mankash666 9y agoI don't think it's Google's fault really. Congress pushed a recent law that holds infrastructure companies like Google responsible for crimes committed by it's users. This is what you get in response - AI filtering out adult content and Craig's list removing personals
- antoncohen 9y agoDropbox would probably be a reasonable alternative to Google Drive. The TOS and Acceptable Use Policy seem reasonable and short. Regarding adult content they say: "publish or share materials that are unlawfully pornographic or indecent, or that contain extreme acts of violence;" https://www.dropbox.com/terms#acceptable_use https://www.dropbox.com/terms#acceptable_use S3 would seem to be safe too, though it isn't as user friendly as Dropbox. I don't see any terms specific to adult content served from S3. https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/ https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/
- thirdreplicator 9y agoThat's what crypto currency-based distributed media systems are for. Examples: STEEMIT, STORJ, TRX, etc. There is no central authority who has the power to censor content as they please. I don't know which of those (or if there exists one which) would be appropriate for porn, but there probably is one. If anybody knows please let me know.
- aaron695 9y agoI'm flabbergasted that this article is saying Google employees are personally viewing data on your personal drive and currently the top HN comments are not mentioning it. HN has really lost the plot, there must be better. This article is saying Google employees are viewing your business plans, your kids in the bath photos, your digitised bank statements, your medical records your doctor pops on to check at home and this is not seen as the top issue, wtf?
- ttflee 9y agoRichard Stallman's warning shall be taken seriously. There is no cloud but others' computers.
- d1ffuz0r 9y agoUsa looks more like Soviet union these days
- kombucha2 9y agoSo password protected rars with random filenames?
- jacksmith21006 9y agoWhy not use something else then?