14 ms·
Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city
- acconrad 9y agoWhat is Boston doing wrong? In the 80s thanks to the 128 Tech Row, it was on par with Silicon Valley as the top spot, then it lost ground and now NYC is considered #2? We have the highest concentration of collegiate tech talent, the same weather as NYC (obviously worse than SV), lower cost of living than both cities, and there's been a ton of investment in real estate for tech companies in the Seaport District. Too little, too late, perhaps?
- IntronExon 9y agoNothing wrong? https://tech.co/top-tech-cities-25-tech-cities-ranked-2017-06 https://tech.co/top-tech-cities-25-tech-cities-ranked-2017-0... It depends on the list, but in general Boston is in the top 5 or 10, while being an order of magnitude smaller than either NYC or SF.
- ynot269 9y agoProbably due to not being as diverse, I think the majority of Boston (and Boston's tech sector is focused in health care, HNE Optum comes to mind).
- forgotpwagain 9y agoDifferent kind of tech. Boston is the world's capital of biotech.
- nkassis 9y agoBoston has a lot more than biotech. You have a fairly large amount of internet companies (beyond the top 4 names, you have companies like for example Akamai), and robotics is a big field. (Kiva now part of Amazon, Boston Dynamics). Other engineering fields are well represented too.
- akhilcacharya 9y agoAll of the Big4 are in Kendall Square (on the same street even!). Bunches of neat startups out of Harvard/MIT. I think its a pretty good tech scene all things considered, more notable companies than the tech hub I grew up in IMHO.
- nkassis 9y agoApparently Amazon moving to seaport with a fairly large footprint. https://www.boston.com/news/business/2018/01/10/amazon-is-seeking-up-to-1-million-square-feet-in-boston https://www.boston.com/news/business/2018/01/10/amazon-is-se...
- ocschwar 9y agoNothing really. It's just that NYC decided to go into tech, and they have a lot of capital they can use to take in that direction. NYC could beat Boston in Red Sox fandom if they wanted to.
- jmalicki 9y agoWhat did Boston do wrong? Enforce non-competes. Non-competes may be "business friendly" for individual businesses, but for health of business as a whole, they just allow entrenched mediocre management to stifle technology by preventing employees who see they could do it better from out-competing them. The traitorous eight and the many who have done similar things are what made Silicon Valley.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoIf I remember right, non-competes are still a thing in Boston.
- prophetjohn 9y agoI know it's a minor point, but Boston absolutely does not have the same weather as NYC. The winters are so much worse in Boston. I'm a current NYC-er finding NYC too expensive to raise my family and the winter there is the only thing pulling me away from Boston, which is otherwise quite attractive.
- cimmanom 9y agoYeah, the weather this past holiday season, for instance, was a once-a-decade sort of event and 20-40 degrees colder than usual. Our compatriots in Boston were laughing at us, saying "that's just another Tuesday up here".
- Apocryphon 9y agoCulturally speaking, why does Boston's nightlife end so early in the evening?
- infomofo 9y agoHistorically, it might be because the T (the Boston Subway) doesn't run 24 hours, it shuts around 1am, so most people have to make arrangements to get home well before then or risk having to take a pricey cab home.
- CodeSheikh 9y agoI am not surprised to read this and also not sure what makes this article/publisher the assumed authority to christened NYC as #2. After Silicon Valley one might argue that Seattle has better tech than NYC but again NYC always has breadth and depth of diverse markets such finance, fashion, ads, hotel, food, law and education to name a few. Not to mention, easy access to EWR/JFK/LGA airports from European continent makes it easier for people to come here and get involved. Updated: Improved verbosity
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoSeattle has better connections to Asia, given the way planes travel it is closer to Beijing, Tokyo, Seoul than any other major American city besides anchorage.
- erubin 9y agoUnlike Anchorage you can actually fly to those places straight from Seattle as a commercial passenger.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoYep, you can only fly direct from Anchorage if you go in a box :).
- reaperducer 9y agoIt depends on how you define "better." If by "better," you mean a couple of hours shorter, then Seattle may be better. If by "better," you mean more frequent flights, more airline choices, more destinations, and more business/first class opportunities, then New York beats Seattle with just one of its three international airports. (Four if you count Stewart.)
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoThe difference is about 3 hours actually. And having gone through ICE at JFK and EWR, I much prefer arriving in Seattle than those two train wrecks. Not to mention getting to the airport is super easy.
- jdlyga 9y agoCheaper rent than Silicon Valley, tons of cultural diversity, and amazing food. Really nice place to live.
- JustAnotherPat 9y agoNYC is actually amongst the lowest for Cost of Living adjusted salaries out of all the major tech cities: https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017 Rent isn't exactly cheap in NYC
- spyspy 9y agoHere's the 2018 report: https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018 https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2018
- humanrebar 9y agoThe problem with these numbers is that adjusting an entire salary for cost of living only makes sense for people living paycheck to paycheck. The real question is how much wealth a tech worker can accumulate in each city. If you're saving 10% a year no matter where you live, you're best optimizing for salary and ignoring cost of living.
- closeparen 9y agoExcept that saving 10% makes you a homeowner in some places and a roommate in others. If you view your job as temporary pain and plan to relocate or retire before starting “real life,” that makes sense. If you’re trying to build a long-term sustainable and fulfilling life that includes a tech job, not so much. Nominal value in a bank account is useless; you need purchasing power.
- humanrebar 9y agoWell, the argument is the same with respect to most consumer goods. The new XPS 13 is the same price in Wyoming and San Fransisco. Adjusting the electronics budget of a household for cost of living generally doesn't make sense, which was my actual point.
- cddotdotslash 9y agoThe best part about tech in NYC is that it isn't a non-stop, in-your-face bubble the way that it is in SF/SJ. I work in tech but enjoy having friends in fashion, finance, real estate, advertising, etc. The conversations here are much more diverse. Interestingly, that same diversity helps improve the tech sector.
- mdolon 9y agoThis was a critical factor that led to me relocating from SF to NYC. While it's nice having every tech giant and startup in close proximity, the homogenous conversations and social interactions were a huge drawback. There's definitely a trade-off -- while it's nice being exposed to the issues people experience in a variety of industries, it was nice having easy access to engineers/friends willing to hack on ideas in SF.
- technofiend 9y agoI can't help but wonder if the recent tax changes will have any effect in consolidating East Coast tech jobs. Previously you could live in NJ and work in Manhattan and write off the respective taxes of each. Now it's my understanding you'd be better served (for example) living and working solely in New Jersey. See [1] for an actual discussion on the tax law changes State and local taxes. Taxpayers can deduct a maximum of $10,000 from the total of their state and local income taxes or sales taxes, and their property taxes (added together), a measure that might hurt itemizers in high-tax states such as California, New York and New Jersey. The $10,000 cap applies whether you are single or married filing jointly; if you are married filing separately, it drops to $5,000. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/how-gop-tax-bill-affects-you/ https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/how-gop-tax-bill-affects-... Based on that maybe we'll see clustering on each side of the river? Entirely speculation on my part, of course.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoI don't see what the federal tax changes would have to do with commuting from NJ to NY? The change in federal law has to do with deducting the total amount of state and local taxes paid, which is, going forward, capped at $10k. New Jersey credits any tax paid to New York, which is staying the same.
- load_balancer 9y agoI really want to move to NYC. As a full stack developer in SF I only get interest from companies in the Bay Area. All my NYC applications get no response even if it's the same resume with locations removed. Am I missing something? Can someone who has mde a similar move cue me in? I have 4 years of full stack experience. Do people tailor their resume for NYC companies?
- rhonsby 9y agoI haven't had any problems getting leads in NYC from SF. I don't tailor my resume in any way. One thing to consider is that it's a bigger bet than trying to recruit someone that's a little more local. They'd have to fly you out and it's not uncommon for people to say they want to move, but then decide it's not for them after going through the entire interview pipeline. Larger companies are more willing to take on this risk, so if you're only applying for smaller ones, that might be a reason why you're not hearing back. Try this: find a recruiter at the companies that you want to apply for on LinkedIn and message them directly. Convey both your interest in working for their company and your desire to be in NYC.
- misiti3780 9y agoping me, my firm is probably looking to hire soon and looking for full stack engineers, we are based in NYC
- JustAnotherPat 9y agoNYC has a lot of java based jobs. Some python, very few ruby ones (compared to the Bay Area at least). It isn't so easy finding certain types of jobs in NYC.
- stevepike 9y agoTo chime in from the employers perspective, we've found it hard to find full-stack web developers in NYC with more than a years' experience in a dynamic language (we use ruby, but are happy to train people on the specific stack). There's a lot of talent at the recent boot camp grad level and experienced folks in finance. Would love any tips on attracting solid mid-senior talent in NYC.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- caiob 9y ago> On Wall Street, new computer engineers get hired at $120,000, but senior managers can make $400,000 plus the bonuses Wall Street hands out every winter This always bums me out. Why do managers make so much more money than engineers?
- aeriklawson 9y agoEngineers aren't the money makers.
- humanrebar 9y agoEngineers aren't in the room when they decide who is doing the most critical work.
- zintinio5 9y agoThat's not the case everywhere. Some companies pay managers less than engineers. From the company's perspective, a manager deals with a larger chunk of the business, while an engineer solves just one small part. Not saying it's right, but that's my simple guess.
- yanslookup 9y agoA group of 5 engineers, left to their own devices, would probably produce about $100k worth of value. An effective manager can extract two million dollars worth of value out of those same 5 engineers. If you don't believe this, you may have never had a great manager.
- humanrebar 9y agoAnd an effective manager given engineers who can't write a for loop will produce $0 worth of value (or worse). I don't find this line of thought convincing. A better answer is "that's the market clearing price for good managers".
- longerthoughts 9y ago
- tabeth 9y agoI'm sure NYC is doing quite well, but a New York based website is saying NYC is doing great without any context or even a reporting of the full list? You could write the same article about Boston, Denver, Austin, etc.
- Finnucane 9y agoIn absolute numbers, New York would be at or near the top of the list just out of sheer size. New York has a lot of people doing IT work because it's a huge city and every business needs some IT to a greater or lesser degree.
- replicatorblog 9y ago"official" FTEs is one way to slice it, but kind of dumb. Seattle is home to two of the five biggest tech companies in the US. Boston has had an IPO every year for the last ten years that exceeds any in NYC history. LA has had the only 11-digit IPO in the last five years, outside of the bay area. It's also capturing the zeitgeist in a way that NYC no longer does (that's subjective, of course, but I'd debate it). Just by market cap, Sydney's three biggest tech co's would are more impressive than NYC's. NYC is an awesome startup city, but the idea that it's the clear #2 is silly.
- whack 9y agoAll the criteria you chose seem like bad proxies for the things that really matter. I would count the following as the fundamental metrics that really count. - Average (high-end) programmer salary - Amount of VC funding - Total number of full-time tech workers The 1st and 2nd criteria determine how attractive the city is, for employees and founders respectively. The 3rd criteria determines how much clustering/network effects the city enjoys. On all 3 criteria, NYC is either 1st or 2nd. NYC hedge funds have bid up programmer salaries to levels that are virtually impossible to get anywhere else besides SFBA. The data on VC-funding shows NYC as a solid #2, only behind SFBA. And the linked article shows that in terms of networking potential, NYC is #2 as well. https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/10/venture-capital-concentration/539775/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/10/venture-capital-concent...
- timothycrosley 9y agoYou sort of prove the cherry picking argument. Average salary means nothing in a vacuum without cost of living considered. And when it is... Unsurprisingly NYC comes in at the bottom of the list, https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer-earnings-271vpf599k https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer... Seattle is actually #1
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- 9y ago
- code4tee 9y agoIn my experience the NYC tech scene is far more grounded in reality. Far far less hype, uber for lawn gnomes nonsense and a lot more companies focused on real solutions and, often, with real customers. Silicon Valley has become, well, Silicon Valley while NYC is and feels much more like a true business hub. Seems to be a lot of B2B stuff that’s driven by the overall diversity of NYC’s economy, which is far more diverse than SF/SV.
- caraeisenpress 9y agoGreat point. One quote that didn't make it in was that NYC doesn't have an "infrastructure of crazy," i.e., there aren't mentors/peers here who might tell a founder not to take a risk, not to take that offer from Google for $30 billion...
- p-funk 9y agoI'm sorry if this is off topic, but I'm just looking for some advice I guess. I'm currently an electronics engineer in NY and I've been trying to switch to something in software for about a year now because there are essentially no electronics jobs here in my field. I've had a hard time convincing employers how my electronics experience is relevant or how well it would translate to a software role, because, basically, no one knows what electrical engineers actually do, much less how similar it is to software engineering. How do I convince people that I'd be a good hire, despite not having "production" software experience apart from a few embedded projects? I know for certain I can do the work, I just don't know how to prove that to someone doing the hiring.
- lallysingh 9y agoDo any FPGA work? There's demand for that.
- djtriptych 9y agoIn NYC? I think he might find work in some HFT specialty firms looking at custom hardware. But yeah I’d be looking at SF or even Boston to leverage the EE degree. My guess is a bootcamp would help out on the resume.
- p-funk 9y agoNot really. I'm in audio, so mostly analog with a bit of microcontroller experience.
- Skeletor 9y agoBuild a website and an iOS (and/or Android) app and get them up and running and give them away for free. It may be a lot harder and take a lot longer than you think to convert hardware -> software skills. If you do it in your spare time as a hobby you will ramp up at your own pace and have something to show future employers.
- p-funk 9y agoThanks for the advice. This is basically what I've been doing for the past year, every spare second I've had devoted to side projects. I don't think my expectations are too out of whack because whenever I've gotten a code challenge from an employer, it was pretty easy and I made it through to the next round. But it probably takes longer to build up a portfolio that is actually meaningful.
- randomsearch 9y agoGeneral comment - it’s unlikely tech will come to dominate NYC, and therefore it’s a healthy place to start if you want to avoid a monoculture. Is housing cost a problem though?
- corbinpage 9y agoCrypto will be a leading force in NYC's tech growth over the next 5-10 years.
- gumby 9y agoIs a retail business really a tech business? The article says, "tech companies -- defined as those whose principal business is tech and its applications" but then their examples are companies that are largely shops. There's nothing wrong with shops(!!) but these people aren't developing any technology, and aren't really taking advantage of new technology any more tahn (and probably less than) Target, Wal-mart or McDonald's. Perhaps a better way to put it is we call UAL, AA, etc "airlines" rather than "aircraft companies". We don't call comcast, or sprint "tech" companies even though they have a lot of engineers on their staff. In one sense, who cares? If these companies are successful and good for their customers, employees and investors that's great. (of course to me Cummins engines and 3M are pretty high tech businesses too, even if little computation or electronics is discussed by them). But I am quite interested in tech businesses and products, and this all seems a bit weird.