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Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. However, I do feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs over it. Let's make towns have downtowns, with beautiful brick roads, scenic ponds with some ducks, perhaps a waterfall, some nice cafes, a lawn with benches, some parks, some nature, trees, live music, a library and museums. It's okay to have some retails stores sprinkled around here and there, as long as they're original, and not those mass market plastic selling behemoaths we see everywhere.

muninn_ 9y ago
Agreed. Mall's attempted to remake the idea of a "city center" but because they were largely single use - shopping - and you had to make a special trip to go there versus it being on your way somewhere or within walking distance, they ultimately are going to fail. Some malls are attempting to evolve, to their credit. Ultimately it's a failing of zoning. You have houses here. business here. shopping here. library (if funded but probably not) over there. But these things should all be intermingled with the exception of manufacturing.
deleted 9y ago
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fhood 9y ago
I agree with you 95%. But 5% of me recognizes that certain items require a test run before purchase. In my case those would be Audio equipment, instruments and tennis rackets. None of those can be confidently purchased solely on the impressions of others.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - falcolas 9y ago
    And return them just as quickly. My wife will go through 4-5 online orders to find clothing that fits as advertised, returning a majority of each purchase. Hard for anyone but Amazon to maintain that kind of return throughput.
    - fhood 9y ago
      Plus most of us don't feel that returning five orders is more convenient than going to the store.
      - lotsofpulp 9y ago
        Also depends on how often you can find your size. The return packaging is usually pretty easy and a label is inside too.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Is that typical behavior though? I have to imagine no. Personally I can hardly be bothered to return defective merchandise
    - snowpanda 9y ago
      I learned recently that even Amazon is banning people for returns. My first thought was that they must have returned a ton of products, but after a quick "banned from amazon" search online it showed that many people with a return rate as low as 9% have been banned. Which doesn't seem like a lot especially if we're talking about clothing. Here's one example, but there's plenty more if you do a quick search: http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/21/amazon-bans-customer-for-returning-too-many-items/ http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/21/amazon-bans-customer-for-retu... Apparently the cut-off lies somewhere around 10%, they ban you for life though.
- timthelion 9y ago
  If only stores would let you test audio equipment! I've yet to see an electronics store where most headphones/earbuds could be tested.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    I've, ironically, had the best luck lately with the small shops in the airports. They're much more willing to let you test their top-of-the-line headphones than any big box retailer. Yes, to me, it is worth the slight price premium to reward that convenience.
    - Fricken 9y ago
      I guess when people walk into an airport shop looking for headphones, they aren't just window shopping, they absolutely intend to buy a pair because they need it for the flight.
      - usrusr 9y ago
        That could quickly change once people get fully accustomed to in-flight wireless: browse the web for a shortlist on the first leg, feign interest at the stopover shop, price-compare and commit on the connecting flight. The logical consequence would be manufacturer stalls replacing shops in the waiting areas (like a permanent trade fair) and Amazon adding pick-up warehouses to the exits.
  - corey_moncure 9y ago
    https://goo.gl/images/L53u9i https://goo.gl/images/L53u9i This is still the reality in countries where the social fabric hasn't disintegrated.
seanc 9y ago
The irony is that they were originally supposed to provide all of those things: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-gruen-effect/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-gruen-effect/
- jsight 9y ago
  Yeah, but it really feels like they have gotten away from the original vision. I remember when malls had arcades (ok, and outdated concept in itself) and regular community events. But it seems like these don't produce enough revenue, so malls have optimized themselves into a revenue model that removes their natural appeal as a third place. I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that naturally draw people in and an emphasis on the kinds of high-touch products that people generally do prefer to buy in person.
  - pm90 9y ago
    > (ok, and outdated concept in itself) Is it really though? I miss the arcade machines of old. I wonder if anyone has tried bringing some of that concept back...
    - ChickeNES 9y ago
      People have, there are many "barcades" in large cities around the US. As the name suggests they combine alcohol, food, and arcade/pinball machines (depending on the location I've seen free to play and token machines)
    - jsight 9y ago
      There have been some attempts, I guess. Dave & Busters seems to do pretty well, but these seem to be targeted at adults and the games are nothing like the old days, IMO. I feel like the arcade concept could potentially be brought back, but it would require some creative thinking.
  - yourapostasy 9y ago
    > I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that naturally draw people in and an emphasis on the kinds of high-touch products that people generally do prefer to buy in person. Land prices in the cities where malls are developed have inflated past the carrying capacity of the prevailing disposable income in the same areas.
emodendroket 9y ago
This isn't really limited to malls.
hkmurakami 9y ago
Stanford Shopping Center and the Santa Monica downtown thing (I forget what it's called) are very close to what you describe. What malls do have is space, and that kind of large space owned by a single entity is rare these days within a reasonable travel time away. Redevelopment potential is definitely there. Also, a professor of mine once wondered why we don't have great public spaces like they do in Europe. Then he realized that we do -- in the form of college campuses.
- ericseppanen 9y ago
  Look at Stanford Shopping Center in the satellite view sometime: a bunch of rectangles surrounded by an ocean of surface parking. It's much more like a conventional mall than a downtown: It's effectively walled off from the rest of the neighbordood. You're expected to go there by driving your car, and it's isolated by its massive parking lots so nobody would consider walking in or out a pleasant experience.
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    That's true -- but it's a requirement of SV suburbia tbh. Density isn't high enough anywhere to support retail activity without a huge investment in parking, even in downtown MV or PA. The personal vehicle oriented commutes exacerbate this.
    - rconti 9y ago
      Yes, but downtown Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Mountain View, San Carlos, hell, even Redwood City are the polar opposite of the Stanford Mall. The fact that a bunch of vendors of overpriced trinkets happens to have outdoor passageways is more a factor of the good weather of the bay area than it is an indicator of some kind of difference from your generic indoor megamall. There's a difference between needing parking, and surrounding an area with a moat of parked cars. I think one big problem retail is facing is that, for a long time, efficiency won the day. The chains and their supply chains and economies of scale drove more and more mom and pops out of business, and then only the really efficient chains could survive, and then they had to refinance and take on all this debt that the article mentions, and pretty soon there's absolutely nothing to mourn, and no reason not to buy from Amazon rather than drive to a Best Buy. Some truly unique independent mom and pop or local shops could be worth spending a few bucks more than Amazon to patronize. GenericMall stores give me 0 reason to patronize them over Amazon.
Cidan 9y ago
> Let's make towns have downtowns, with beautiful brick roads, scenic ponds with some ducks, perhaps a waterfall, some nice cafes, a lawn with benches, some parks, some nature, trees, live music, a library and museums. You would think! I live in Santa Monica, California, and we have exactly that in our downtown area. The retail shop turnover is insane -- a large amount of shops come and go from the area, despite the massive amount of foot traffic the area sees every weekend (and most weekdays during the summer).
- unabst 9y ago
  No... SM is a bit wack. The prices are so high, only big businesses can afford to be there. So most stores are big franchises. And it's too touristy for any culture. Main St is better, and towards Venice. I would also nominate DTLA. Downtown is lit. Parking is wack though. Consumers are no longer interested in old retail chains. They follow influencers and their original brands, but they're mostly direct to consumer, and everything arrives in two days anyway.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    SM is loud and very touristy. Buskers are allowed amps for their guitars and I can't count the number of languages spoken. It's more of an airport terminal than anything approaching 'local'. God have mercy on you at the pier. I'd go Culver City, as a better 'local' kinda thing, but even then you need to get up to SB to really stand a chance of a quiet coffee on the street. > Parking is wack though. Literally all of LA is like this. Pro-tip, in SM, park at the library. Cheaper and easier to get in/out.
    - unabst 9y ago
      Even Beverly Hills has great parking. The major bottleneck downtown is parking right now and has been for a while. SM moved fast to build multiple parking structures... and that's where all the foot traffic comes from. Not sure why DTLA is so nonchalant about this. Don't see any construction whatsoever.
walrus01 9y ago
Re: Malls, people might find the Dead Malls site interesting: http://deadmalls.com/ http://deadmalls.com/
onion2k 9y ago
Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply because they don't appeal to you. If they disappear society will be worse for many, many people.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  > Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.
  - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
    At our local mall, there's a sign warning that under 18 aren't allowed without adults. They also removed much of what would attract teens and that age group. And many of the "older person stores" are ridiculously priced. Amazon, Walmart online, Aliexpress, and others are cheaper. Malls are full of expensive stuff, not very good stuff, and caters to nobody in particular. I know for us, it's because "Payless Shoes" that has cheap size 15's is the only reason why. So we beeline in, and out.
    - jsight 9y ago
      I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.
      - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s. I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill. There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you could just chill and hang out, except for free. But there were usually age limits so you didn't hurt little ones. And around this was always a common area. Lots of tables, food places, coffee shop or 2. Clubs and nonprofits would meet here - it was a huge commons area. I remember fondly playing chess on chess club nights. Played some pretty awesome pros there. And the companies there.. You had Sears, Estee Lauder, Nordstrom, and all those big name box stores. And then you'd have all sorts of smaller stores scattered, with rarely ever any room left over (1-2 empty plots due to eventual turnover). But there was something for everyone. Maybe it was a candy store, or a toy store, or specialty thing. That's all changed. Arcades are gone. Yeah, there's one 35 miles away from me, in the next city over. The jungle gyms and playgrounds were deemed dangerous and unsupervised, so they were decommissioned. You know, for "safety". And those tables? Yeah, those only encourage bums and lazy people to congregate, so they're right out. And those clubs? Yeah, they need to pay rent if they want to have a group, so they too were summarily kicked out (Well.. it is private property :/ ). And now with less people, those food vendors started closing. That coffee shop had not enough customers and moved/closed. The rest of the food vendors (whom you've never heard of), now started skimping hard and jacking the prices. And that's not to add in the compounding issues with online stores. A single online store can house millions of products. No real retailer can do that. So, you see the big box stores being squeezed by both the malls running people out, higher prices than online, and better selection than online. So, they end up closing and going bankrupt. It's not any one fault here, but a compound effect that set these things in motion. For me, its that single shoe place. I make a point to park at the closest place to get in, try on shoes, and get out. There's nothing else here for me. And clothing is really the last bastion of something you really should be in person for - cause sending back stuff sucks.
bsenftner 9y ago
I've noticed when traveling, in smaller to medium sized cities there may be a failed mall; sometimes these failed malls become great community centers, until the owners noticed they have traffic and wreak it. So stupid.
debt 9y ago
Malls are super fun. I loved hanging out with friends at the food courts and just walking around the mall going into Wizards of the Coast or Spencer gifts. When you're 13 it's like one of the few places that large where you can hang out without parents around. But yeah that was when I was 13. They haven't really innovated much. It's a great place for kids but no so much for adults. I thought almost everyone had a great childhood mall experiences haha, but I guess not.
- tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
  The arcades seem to suck compared to what I remembered seeing as a kid, too. And there's no $3.50 matinee movies. :)
anaheim_ducks 9y ago
This is true of whole cities as well, and gentrified areas of cities.
nihonde 9y ago
Aeon mall in Nagoya, Japan[1] was my primary daily grocery and pharmacy for years. Aeon's format is pretty much the same as most suburban American malls, but they seem to run a tighter ship and do a better job of vertical integration. (I used to marvel at how insanely mirror-clean the floors were in a place where probably a few tens of thousands of people tread daily.) Prices for things like groceries are not the lowest you can find in Japan, but they're good enough. They often have an area where you can buy local farm produce, a high-quality butcher, prepared bento, okashi, etc. They have a good restaurant selection, too, with a not-depressing food court and a set of good-to-great restaurants. For families, the mall is still genuinely one-stop shopping for clothes, pet supplies, groceries, bikes, dining out, etc. I often find myself missing my old, reliable Aeon when I'm abroad. I think malls like Aeon deliver on the promise that malls in America fall short on. Aeon is also the biggest retailer in Asia, IIRC. [1] http://www.aeon.jp/sc/nagoyadomemae/index.html http://www.aeon.jp/sc/nagoyadomemae/index.html
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  The UAE is similar in that malls are very organized and controlled. A typical mall would have a food court, a large arcade for kids, a daycare (or two), pharmacies, coffee shops, a book store, a furniture store, and so on. Also, unlike from what I've seen here in the US, any decent mall must contain a large supermarket (usually Carrefour). Malls in the UAE are therefore a "one stop shop" that people go to every week to buy groceries and household supplies. Given how hot it can get over there, it makes absolute sense to have everything in one, air conditioned building.
  - jsight 9y ago
    In the US, that market has been taken over by Walmart. It is effectively the "one stop shop" that people visit weekly for everything from groceries to small furniture. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Walmart has had almost as much of a negative impact on malls as Amazon and its ilk have.
    - nihonde 9y ago
bwanab 9y ago
Yes, malls are all those things and I agree completely with your solutions, but malls aren't the worst - that, I'd say, are the drive-through mentality strip development stores that line suburban streets all over the US. At least with malls there's a semblance of people walking and interacting in person.
cwbrandsma 9y ago
I'm not disagreeing completely, but your location might be influencing your answer. I live in the northern portion of the USA, we get freezing winters and blistering summers. Come mid-winter...I am not going downtown to walk around outside, we don't hang out outside (unless we are talking winter sports, and then FULLY clothed). In summer, there needs to be shade. Fall and spring, we get wet. But really, it seems like you want a town with more parks.
- dghughes 9y ago
  I'm in eastern Canada and I agree with your weather statement. With 100km/h winds, -25C and 1m of snow it's not worth going out. I wish we had a subway system here and underground shops. Montreal and Toronto have huge indoor shopping areas connected by subway, I suppose technically they are malls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto)
  - malnourish 9y ago
    Similarly, and while I don't have links on hand, Japan (at least Osaka, Kyoto, and Tokyo) have major shopping centers right in major train stations. The train station itself seems to be a destination. There are gyms (generally Konami health clubs), food and shopping, and gardens on the rooftop.
    - bitwize 9y ago
      In Osaka it seemed like every available square meter was converted to retail space. Shopping arcades, train station shops, underground causeways lined with shops, traditional malls. The back alleys have back alleys, and they're all lined with shops -- often specialty shops. I found one shop devoted to display cases for otaku to show off their model collection. Another shop specialized in LCD signs you could use in the storefront for your shop. It was NUTS. And yeah, the first time I saw a Konami gym my mind boggled. Is this how Snake stays in such good shape? Use promo code Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start and get a 30-day free membership!
nradov 9y ago
Santana Row has been fairly successful in creating a sustainable artificial "downtown" mall in suburban San Jose. No ducks or waterfalls, but they frequently have live music and the café is decent. http://www.santanarow.com/ http://www.santanarow.com/
- ganoushoreilly 9y ago
  The other side of that is Santana row caters to high end buyers looking for high end brands that most malls won't carry. It's a bit of an edge case. They do have a Fogo de Chao though so that makes it cool in my book :D .
  - woolvalley 9y ago
    Espetus in San Mateo is far better than Fogo de Chao. :D
    - ganoushoreilly 9y ago
      I'll have to check it out, though when i'm in San Mateo I usually end up at Sushi Sams.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  It's super fancy-pants though, and literally across the street from a traditional mall (that seems to be doing just fine!)
katastic 9y ago
>However, I do feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs over it. I'm not aware of anyone there--except maybe... jewelers?--that enjoy long-term careers at a mall. It's like an entire parking lot full of McDonalds. They'll find new jobs. Everyone at Circuit City managed to move. And I'm in no way bashing retail or food worker. I used to tell people I did a "five year tour of duty at Sam's Clubs and I've got the [five year] medal to prove it." My point is that those jobs are both 1) crap working conditions and pay. and 2) easily transferable to comparable jobs at other employers. Circuit City disappeared and the world moved on. K-Mart is still around but everyone who values their careers has already jumped ship. Block Buster is gone and the world keeps ticking. Mall store employees will continue on. The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers. We are definitely becoming more hermit-like as a society, but there's got to be "something" most non-hermits enjoy. The whole purpose of the Mall is a bunch of stores that add value to each other by being near each other. "I bring Dad for a lawn mower, and the kids hit the arcade." (Man, I miss finding quarters and taking them to the arcades.) So my point here is, single stores still exist, so clearly it's not "stores in general" going out, but more "the stores malls want" people care less about.
- pixl97 9y ago
  >The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers. No, the 'real reason' has nothing to do with shopping. The article touched on the actual problem. It is way too easy to get into billions of dollars in debt. If you own mall real estate, who do you want at your mall. Small businesses that attract customers, but have to pay you with money they earn. Or Large chains that earn earn billions by playing leveraged debt games, and will pay stupidly high rates for rent, no customers required. Malls will survive just fine, the moment rents and property prices are back in touch with reality.
georgeecollins 9y ago
I'm not going to defend malls, but clearly there needs to be some kind of market place where people can encounter things they don't expect. We are already experiencing a media landscape with a filter bubble. Views become more narrow and extreme. You are going to need to have a place where you see things you think you wouldn't buy or want, otherwise your experience of world is going to get more narrow.
- VLM 9y ago
  Amazon is extremely good at that, and they have a strong financial motivation to do so. I'll agree with and extend your remarks on a tangent that at one point in human history literacy was nice but not required to participate in the economy. Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. You'll pick out your next bicycle by reading technical manuals and holding a ruler up to your leg, or you'll fail miserably at buying a bicycle. Just like its sad that illiterate or innumerate people get screwed in todays economy, people who can't shop like an engineer are going to get screwed in coming decades. What you're looking at is evolution of the economy to increase income inequality as it always does and increase specialization as it always does and require more work out of people as it always does. There's nothing really new about it, its just people who can't shop like an engineer are just not going to be able to shop anymore, at least not successfully, just like someone illiterate has a rough time shopping today.
  - rimunroe 9y ago
    > Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. Sounds like you you're mistaking "wealthy people" for "the cognitive elite"! The shopping behaviors you're describing are just those of people who have either the time or capital to spend trying to get marginally better stuff. > [...] soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. You'll pick out your next bicycle by reading technical manuals and holding a ruler up to your leg, or you'll fail miserably at buying a bicycle. I don't know what kind of bicycle shopping you're envisioning, but it sounds pretty damn weird to me. It's kind of hard to buy a bike that just doesn't work at all for most people. Even if your bike is several sizes off, it's just going to be more obnoxious to pedal. I'm in Boston, and I see tons of people commute around on bikes which really don't fit them at all and they do just fine. Even the crappiest bike is leagues better than walking Also, I don't know how many people currently buy their bikes online who aren't already really into cycling vs people who buy them used or at a brick and mortar store, but I doubt it's high compared to, say, clothes. [Edit] > Just like its sad that illiterate or innumerate people get screwed in todays economy, people who can't shop like an engineer are going to get screwed in coming decades. The type of shopping behavior you're describing is a luxury of the rich, not a necessity for most people. If you were to say, "not-wealthy people will be screwed over in the decades to come" I'd agree and point out that that's already the case.
pwaai 9y ago
I feel like this is a sign of the times. Inflation has outstripped our disposable income that our previous generation has spent on consumerism or infrastructure to enable more consumption (malls, easy capital) and we are now reaping the rewards that our generation can't afford.
coldtea 9y ago
>Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. Which makes sense, as their main purpose is to be places to shop for clothes, electronics, kitchenware, and so on, not any of those other things.
stevenwoo 9y ago
I agree with you but when I go to the malls in Santa Clara and San Jose (they have food courts close to where I work at times) the malls are surprisingly crowded with usual suspects of teenagers/mothers with children/older possibly retired people/people like me.
loeg 9y ago
One of my local malls has a library branch in it, actually. And it's adjacent to a large park. That said, this isn't typical.
closeparen 9y ago
Malls reliably have enough parking. Getting downtown is a major (and slow) production, particularly if your downtown is progressive enough to intentionally deter access by car.
VLM 9y ago
There are two problems with downtowns, in a tiny city, giant city, whatever. First of all downtown already has a purpose which is to extract middle class home equity, run it thru the retail and restaurant wringer where 95% of businesses fail in the first two years or whatever. Its easy for the city to run downtown; the city doesn't have to worry about parking, for example, because those businesses are designed to fail and new suckers appear as fast as home equity loans can be sold so they don't need parking for businesses that don't have customers LOL. This also becomes self fulfilling, downtown is for dead businesses so why would I go there unless I had to because by definition the businesses downtown suck or they wouldn't be downtown where businesses go to die? Secondly the downtown has drunks, criminals, crazy people, panhandlers, drug addicts in various state of withdrawl, buskers, homeless, and many/most cities are constrained to the light touch, which is nice for those folks, but also means nobody wants to go there. Crazy people have to go somewhere, and downtown has the church mission and a park by the river and a liquor store for self medication. I'm not even remotely interested in hanging out with those people, so I'll go to the Target at the interstate exit instead, or more than a generation ago I'd have gone to a mall where security is at least not non-existent. Your example of a park bench will have a homeless person sleeping on it, the scenic pond will have a drunk peeing in it, the cafes nobody wants to sit at because of aggressive panhandlers and the smell of excrement from the streets and alleys... You're asking for the whites-only exburbs where the average sales price is above $800K to keep out the riff raff that's 30+ miles out of town, I live by those places and they're cool but unachievable for 90% of the population. I live in the 3rd richest suburb in my metro area and even here our downtown is dying, getting overrun. The economy of the future is clustered around interstate exits not some arbitrary place where a railroad put a depot 150 years ago.
- lovich 9y ago
  I don't know where you are getting the idea that people are congregating around interstate exits now other than your personal experience. Car ownership has been trending down in the US for a few years and the urban population as a percentage of total population has also been growing for a long time.
  - ghaff 9y ago
Shivetya 9y ago
Malls should transform into upper levels for residences and lower levels for businesses and relaxation. landscape all the parking down to a decent size business parking for those in the mall and separate parkign for residents. no reason failing malls cannot be remade into such. It has been done and no reason they cannot be a hub for such. but as mass transportation and cars whacked mom&pop stores so the internet reduces the needs for boutique type stores and small chain merchandise oriented stores.
vijayr 9y ago
same with airports - just why do we need sooooooo many shops right next to the terminals? I understand travelers might need some basic stuff (food, water etc) but why other crap, especially so close to the terminals? no wonder airports are so huge
- lifeformed 9y ago
  There's a lot of downtime for travelers, so shops are a good way for airports to make money, and for travelers to relieve boredom. The airports aren't big because of the shops, they're big because the planes and tarmacs need tons of space.
Parcissons 9y ago
Its the little details in malls, and eveyhwere, that tell you that you are not really wanted. That everyone, just views you as a number, that either goes black or red. For example hotels- i stayed alon in a double room, and noticed that somebody those two beds apart to so they would not have to do the the sheets on the second one. Those little, subtle gestures signifying, that you the customer are just another annoying fact one has to put up with in this world. And the malls are full of them. I love places that signify with "waste" that they like my presence. That small bookstore on the corner, where i buy and order books. I go there, because the salesman will talk about politics and books,often for half an hour. Its a terrible waste and in any place with a CEO, he would be yelled at for a lack of throughput and a failed success at getting me to buy crap. More then anything, in those malls, i hate the voice that a shop, its people and appearance form. "Sheep 815 has entered the room, get him sheared in under 3 Mins, abandon instantly when no quick-sale is possible, prevent him from disrupting goods and sales-process." I honestly abhore shop-keepers who think only about the economical side of theire shops. I know it doesent make sense, but hey im the customer- i dont have too.

muninn_ 9y ago

Agreed. Mall's attempted to remake the idea of a "city center" but because they were largely single use - shopping - and you had to make a special trip to go there versus it being on your way somewhere or within walking distance, they ultimately are going to fail. Some malls are attempting to evolve, to their credit. Ultimately it's a failing of zoning. You have houses here. business here. shopping here. library (if funded but probably not) over there. But these things should all be intermingled with the exception of manufacturing.

deleted 9y ago

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fhood 9y ago

I agree with you 95%. But 5% of me recognizes that certain items require a test run before purchase. In my case those would be Audio equipment, instruments and tennis rackets. None of those can be confidently purchased solely on the impressions of others.

emodendroket 9y ago
You know, people said that about furniture and clothes and now people buy them online without a second thought.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- falcolas 9y ago
  And return them just as quickly. My wife will go through 4-5 online orders to find clothing that fits as advertised, returning a majority of each purchase. Hard for anyone but Amazon to maintain that kind of return throughput.
  - fhood 9y ago
    Plus most of us don't feel that returning five orders is more convenient than going to the store.
    - lotsofpulp 9y ago
      Also depends on how often you can find your size. The return packaging is usually pretty easy and a label is inside too.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Is that typical behavior though? I have to imagine no. Personally I can hardly be bothered to return defective merchandise
  - snowpanda 9y ago
    I learned recently that even Amazon is banning people for returns. My first thought was that they must have returned a ton of products, but after a quick "banned from amazon" search online it showed that many people with a return rate as low as 9% have been banned. Which doesn't seem like a lot especially if we're talking about clothing. Here's one example, but there's plenty more if you do a quick search: http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/21/amazon-bans-customer-for-returning-too-many-items/ http://cbs4indy.com/2016/03/21/amazon-bans-customer-for-retu... Apparently the cut-off lies somewhere around 10%, they ban you for life though.
timthelion 9y ago
If only stores would let you test audio equipment! I've yet to see an electronics store where most headphones/earbuds could be tested.
- falcolas 9y ago
  I've, ironically, had the best luck lately with the small shops in the airports. They're much more willing to let you test their top-of-the-line headphones than any big box retailer. Yes, to me, it is worth the slight price premium to reward that convenience.
  - Fricken 9y ago
    I guess when people walk into an airport shop looking for headphones, they aren't just window shopping, they absolutely intend to buy a pair because they need it for the flight.
    - usrusr 9y ago
      That could quickly change once people get fully accustomed to in-flight wireless: browse the web for a shortlist on the first leg, feign interest at the stopover shop, price-compare and commit on the connecting flight. The logical consequence would be manufacturer stalls replacing shops in the waiting areas (like a permanent trade fair) and Amazon adding pick-up warehouses to the exits.
- corey_moncure 9y ago
  https://goo.gl/images/L53u9i https://goo.gl/images/L53u9i This is still the reality in countries where the social fabric hasn't disintegrated.

seanc 9y ago

The irony is that they were originally supposed to provide all of those things: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-gruen-effect/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-gruen-effect/

jsight 9y ago
Yeah, but it really feels like they have gotten away from the original vision. I remember when malls had arcades (ok, and outdated concept in itself) and regular community events. But it seems like these don't produce enough revenue, so malls have optimized themselves into a revenue model that removes their natural appeal as a third place. I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that naturally draw people in and an emphasis on the kinds of high-touch products that people generally do prefer to buy in person.
- pm90 9y ago
  > (ok, and outdated concept in itself) Is it really though? I miss the arcade machines of old. I wonder if anyone has tried bringing some of that concept back...
  - ChickeNES 9y ago
    People have, there are many "barcades" in large cities around the US. As the name suggests they combine alcohol, food, and arcade/pinball machines (depending on the location I've seen free to play and token machines)
  - jsight 9y ago
    There have been some attempts, I guess. Dave & Busters seems to do pretty well, but these seem to be targeted at adults and the games are nothing like the old days, IMO. I feel like the arcade concept could potentially be brought back, but it would require some creative thinking.
- yourapostasy 9y ago
  > I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that naturally draw people in and an emphasis on the kinds of high-touch products that people generally do prefer to buy in person. Land prices in the cities where malls are developed have inflated past the carrying capacity of the prevailing disposable income in the same areas.

emodendroket 9y ago

This isn't really limited to malls.

hkmurakami 9y ago

Stanford Shopping Center and the Santa Monica downtown thing (I forget what it's called) are very close to what you describe. What malls do have is space, and that kind of large space owned by a single entity is rare these days within a reasonable travel time away. Redevelopment potential is definitely there. Also, a professor of mine once wondered why we don't have great public spaces like they do in Europe. Then he realized that we do -- in the form of college campuses.

ericseppanen 9y ago
Look at Stanford Shopping Center in the satellite view sometime: a bunch of rectangles surrounded by an ocean of surface parking. It's much more like a conventional mall than a downtown: It's effectively walled off from the rest of the neighbordood. You're expected to go there by driving your car, and it's isolated by its massive parking lots so nobody would consider walking in or out a pleasant experience.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  That's true -- but it's a requirement of SV suburbia tbh. Density isn't high enough anywhere to support retail activity without a huge investment in parking, even in downtown MV or PA. The personal vehicle oriented commutes exacerbate this.
  - rconti 9y ago
    Yes, but downtown Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Mountain View, San Carlos, hell, even Redwood City are the polar opposite of the Stanford Mall. The fact that a bunch of vendors of overpriced trinkets happens to have outdoor passageways is more a factor of the good weather of the bay area than it is an indicator of some kind of difference from your generic indoor megamall. There's a difference between needing parking, and surrounding an area with a moat of parked cars. I think one big problem retail is facing is that, for a long time, efficiency won the day. The chains and their supply chains and economies of scale drove more and more mom and pops out of business, and then only the really efficient chains could survive, and then they had to refinance and take on all this debt that the article mentions, and pretty soon there's absolutely nothing to mourn, and no reason not to buy from Amazon rather than drive to a Best Buy. Some truly unique independent mom and pop or local shops could be worth spending a few bucks more than Amazon to patronize. GenericMall stores give me 0 reason to patronize them over Amazon.

Cidan 9y ago

> Let's make towns have downtowns, with beautiful brick roads, scenic ponds with some ducks, perhaps a waterfall, some nice cafes, a lawn with benches, some parks, some nature, trees, live music, a library and museums. You would think! I live in Santa Monica, California, and we have exactly that in our downtown area. The retail shop turnover is insane -- a large amount of shops come and go from the area, despite the massive amount of foot traffic the area sees every weekend (and most weekdays during the summer).

unabst 9y ago
No... SM is a bit wack. The prices are so high, only big businesses can afford to be there. So most stores are big franchises. And it's too touristy for any culture. Main St is better, and towards Venice. I would also nominate DTLA. Downtown is lit. Parking is wack though. Consumers are no longer interested in old retail chains. They follow influencers and their original brands, but they're mostly direct to consumer, and everything arrives in two days anyway.
- Balgair 9y ago
  SM is loud and very touristy. Buskers are allowed amps for their guitars and I can't count the number of languages spoken. It's more of an airport terminal than anything approaching 'local'. God have mercy on you at the pier. I'd go Culver City, as a better 'local' kinda thing, but even then you need to get up to SB to really stand a chance of a quiet coffee on the street. > Parking is wack though. Literally all of LA is like this. Pro-tip, in SM, park at the library. Cheaper and easier to get in/out.
  - unabst 9y ago
    Even Beverly Hills has great parking. The major bottleneck downtown is parking right now and has been for a while. SM moved fast to build multiple parking structures... and that's where all the foot traffic comes from. Not sure why DTLA is so nonchalant about this. Don't see any construction whatsoever.

walrus01 9y ago

Re: Malls, people might find the Dead Malls site interesting: http://deadmalls.com/ http://deadmalls.com/

onion2k 9y ago

Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality. If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply because they don't appeal to you. If they disappear society will be worse for many, many people.

craftyguy 9y ago
> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends. I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.
- crankylinuxuser 9y ago
  At our local mall, there's a sign warning that under 18 aren't allowed without adults. They also removed much of what would attract teens and that age group. And many of the "older person stores" are ridiculously priced. Amazon, Walmart online, Aliexpress, and others are cheaper. Malls are full of expensive stuff, not very good stuff, and caters to nobody in particular. I know for us, it's because "Payless Shoes" that has cheap size 15's is the only reason why. So we beeline in, and out.
  - jsight 9y ago
    I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.
    - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
      Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s. I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill. There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you could just chill and hang out, except for free. But there were usually age limits so you didn't hurt little ones. And around this was always a common area. Lots of tables, food places, coffee shop or 2. Clubs and nonprofits would meet here - it was a huge commons area. I remember fondly playing chess on chess club nights. Played some pretty awesome pros there. And the companies there.. You had Sears, Estee Lauder, Nordstrom, and all those big name box stores. And then you'd have all sorts of smaller stores scattered, with rarely ever any room left over (1-2 empty plots due to eventual turnover). But there was something for everyone. Maybe it was a candy store, or a toy store, or specialty thing. That's all changed. Arcades are gone. Yeah, there's one 35 miles away from me, in the next city over. The jungle gyms and playgrounds were deemed dangerous and unsupervised, so they were decommissioned. You know, for "safety". And those tables? Yeah, those only encourage bums and lazy people to congregate, so they're right out. And those clubs? Yeah, they need to pay rent if they want to have a group, so they too were summarily kicked out (Well.. it is private property :/ ). And now with less people, those food vendors started closing. That coffee shop had not enough customers and moved/closed. The rest of the food vendors (whom you've never heard of), now started skimping hard and jacking the prices. And that's not to add in the compounding issues with online stores. A single online store can house millions of products. No real retailer can do that. So, you see the big box stores being squeezed by both the malls running people out, higher prices than online, and better selection than online. So, they end up closing and going bankrupt. It's not any one fault here, but a compound effect that set these things in motion. For me, its that single shoe place. I make a point to park at the closest place to get in, try on shoes, and get out. There's nothing else here for me. And clothing is really the last bastion of something you really should be in person for - cause sending back stuff sucks.

bsenftner 9y ago

I've noticed when traveling, in smaller to medium sized cities there may be a failed mall; sometimes these failed malls become great community centers, until the owners noticed they have traffic and wreak it. So stupid.

debt 9y ago

Malls are super fun. I loved hanging out with friends at the food courts and just walking around the mall going into Wizards of the Coast or Spencer gifts. When you're 13 it's like one of the few places that large where you can hang out without parents around. But yeah that was when I was 13. They haven't really innovated much. It's a great place for kids but no so much for adults. I thought almost everyone had a great childhood mall experiences haha, but I guess not.

tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
The arcades seem to suck compared to what I remembered seeing as a kid, too. And there's no $3.50 matinee movies. :)

anaheim_ducks 9y ago

This is true of whole cities as well, and gentrified areas of cities.

nihonde 9y ago

Aeon mall in Nagoya, Japan[1] was my primary daily grocery and pharmacy for years. Aeon's format is pretty much the same as most suburban American malls, but they seem to run a tighter ship and do a better job of vertical integration. (I used to marvel at how insanely mirror-clean the floors were in a place where probably a few tens of thousands of people tread daily.) Prices for things like groceries are not the lowest you can find in Japan, but they're good enough. They often have an area where you can buy local farm produce, a high-quality butcher, prepared bento, okashi, etc. They have a good restaurant selection, too, with a not-depressing food court and a set of good-to-great restaurants. For families, the mall is still genuinely one-stop shopping for clothes, pet supplies, groceries, bikes, dining out, etc. I often find myself missing my old, reliable Aeon when I'm abroad. I think malls like Aeon deliver on the promise that malls in America fall short on. Aeon is also the biggest retailer in Asia, IIRC. [1] http://www.aeon.jp/sc/nagoyadomemae/index.html http://www.aeon.jp/sc/nagoyadomemae/index.html

Cyph0n 9y ago
The UAE is similar in that malls are very organized and controlled. A typical mall would have a food court, a large arcade for kids, a daycare (or two), pharmacies, coffee shops, a book store, a furniture store, and so on. Also, unlike from what I've seen here in the US, any decent mall must contain a large supermarket (usually Carrefour). Malls in the UAE are therefore a "one stop shop" that people go to every week to buy groceries and household supplies. Given how hot it can get over there, it makes absolute sense to have everything in one, air conditioned building.
- jsight 9y ago
  In the US, that market has been taken over by Walmart. It is effectively the "one stop shop" that people visit weekly for everything from groceries to small furniture. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Walmart has had almost as much of a negative impact on malls as Amazon and its ilk have.
  - nihonde 9y ago

bwanab 9y ago

Yes, malls are all those things and I agree completely with your solutions, but malls aren't the worst - that, I'd say, are the drive-through mentality strip development stores that line suburban streets all over the US. At least with malls there's a semblance of people walking and interacting in person.

cwbrandsma 9y ago

I'm not disagreeing completely, but your location might be influencing your answer. I live in the northern portion of the USA, we get freezing winters and blistering summers. Come mid-winter...I am not going downtown to walk around outside, we don't hang out outside (unless we are talking winter sports, and then FULLY clothed). In summer, there needs to be shade. Fall and spring, we get wet. But really, it seems like you want a town with more parks.

dghughes 9y ago
I'm in eastern Canada and I agree with your weather statement. With 100km/h winds, -25C and 1m of snow it's not worth going out. I wish we had a subway system here and underground shops. Montreal and Toronto have huge indoor shopping areas connected by subway, I suppose technically they are malls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto)
- malnourish 9y ago
  Similarly, and while I don't have links on hand, Japan (at least Osaka, Kyoto, and Tokyo) have major shopping centers right in major train stations. The train station itself seems to be a destination. There are gyms (generally Konami health clubs), food and shopping, and gardens on the rooftop.
  - bitwize 9y ago
    In Osaka it seemed like every available square meter was converted to retail space. Shopping arcades, train station shops, underground causeways lined with shops, traditional malls. The back alleys have back alleys, and they're all lined with shops -- often specialty shops. I found one shop devoted to display cases for otaku to show off their model collection. Another shop specialized in LCD signs you could use in the storefront for your shop. It was NUTS. And yeah, the first time I saw a Konami gym my mind boggled. Is this how Snake stays in such good shape? Use promo code Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start and get a 30-day free membership!

nradov 9y ago

Santana Row has been fairly successful in creating a sustainable artificial "downtown" mall in suburban San Jose. No ducks or waterfalls, but they frequently have live music and the café is decent. http://www.santanarow.com/ http://www.santanarow.com/

ganoushoreilly 9y ago
The other side of that is Santana row caters to high end buyers looking for high end brands that most malls won't carry. It's a bit of an edge case. They do have a Fogo de Chao though so that makes it cool in my book :D .
- woolvalley 9y ago
  Espetus in San Mateo is far better than Fogo de Chao. :D
  - ganoushoreilly 9y ago
    I'll have to check it out, though when i'm in San Mateo I usually end up at Sushi Sams.
Domenic_S 9y ago
It's super fancy-pants though, and literally across the street from a traditional mall (that seems to be doing just fine!)

katastic 9y ago

>However, I do feel bad for the people that will lose their jobs over it. I'm not aware of anyone there--except maybe... jewelers?--that enjoy long-term careers at a mall. It's like an entire parking lot full of McDonalds. They'll find new jobs. Everyone at Circuit City managed to move. And I'm in no way bashing retail or food worker. I used to tell people I did a "five year tour of duty at Sam's Clubs and I've got the [five year] medal to prove it." My point is that those jobs are both 1) crap working conditions and pay. and 2) easily transferable to comparable jobs at other employers. Circuit City disappeared and the world moved on. K-Mart is still around but everyone who values their careers has already jumped ship. Block Buster is gone and the world keeps ticking. Mall store employees will continue on. The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers. We are definitely becoming more hermit-like as a society, but there's got to be "something" most non-hermits enjoy. The whole purpose of the Mall is a bunch of stores that add value to each other by being near each other. "I bring Dad for a lawn mower, and the kids hit the arcade." (Man, I miss finding quarters and taking them to the arcades.) So my point here is, single stores still exist, so clearly it's not "stores in general" going out, but more "the stores malls want" people care less about.

pixl97 9y ago
>The real question is why no malls either care to, or are unable to, attract stores that appeal to customers. No, the 'real reason' has nothing to do with shopping. The article touched on the actual problem. It is way too easy to get into billions of dollars in debt. If you own mall real estate, who do you want at your mall. Small businesses that attract customers, but have to pay you with money they earn. Or Large chains that earn earn billions by playing leveraged debt games, and will pay stupidly high rates for rent, no customers required. Malls will survive just fine, the moment rents and property prices are back in touch with reality.

georgeecollins 9y ago

I'm not going to defend malls, but clearly there needs to be some kind of market place where people can encounter things they don't expect. We are already experiencing a media landscape with a filter bubble. Views become more narrow and extreme. You are going to need to have a place where you see things you think you wouldn't buy or want, otherwise your experience of world is going to get more narrow.

VLM 9y ago
Amazon is extremely good at that, and they have a strong financial motivation to do so. I'll agree with and extend your remarks on a tangent that at one point in human history literacy was nice but not required to participate in the economy. Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. You'll pick out your next bicycle by reading technical manuals and holding a ruler up to your leg, or you'll fail miserably at buying a bicycle. Just like its sad that illiterate or innumerate people get screwed in todays economy, people who can't shop like an engineer are going to get screwed in coming decades. What you're looking at is evolution of the economy to increase income inequality as it always does and increase specialization as it always does and require more work out of people as it always does. There's nothing really new about it, its just people who can't shop like an engineer are just not going to be able to shop anymore, at least not successfully, just like someone illiterate has a rough time shopping today.
- rimunroe 9y ago
  > Currently shopping by catalog and spec and datasheet is for the cognitive elite like engineers, but soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. Sounds like you you're mistaking "wealthy people" for "the cognitive elite"! The shopping behaviors you're describing are just those of people who have either the time or capital to spend trying to get marginally better stuff. > [...] soon enough its going to be a required new higher minimum of economic participation. You'll pick out your next bicycle by reading technical manuals and holding a ruler up to your leg, or you'll fail miserably at buying a bicycle. I don't know what kind of bicycle shopping you're envisioning, but it sounds pretty damn weird to me. It's kind of hard to buy a bike that just doesn't work at all for most people. Even if your bike is several sizes off, it's just going to be more obnoxious to pedal. I'm in Boston, and I see tons of people commute around on bikes which really don't fit them at all and they do just fine. Even the crappiest bike is leagues better than walking Also, I don't know how many people currently buy their bikes online who aren't already really into cycling vs people who buy them used or at a brick and mortar store, but I doubt it's high compared to, say, clothes. [Edit] > Just like its sad that illiterate or innumerate people get screwed in todays economy, people who can't shop like an engineer are going to get screwed in coming decades. The type of shopping behavior you're describing is a luxury of the rich, not a necessity for most people. If you were to say, "not-wealthy people will be screwed over in the decades to come" I'd agree and point out that that's already the case.

pwaai 9y ago

I feel like this is a sign of the times. Inflation has outstripped our disposable income that our previous generation has spent on consumerism or infrastructure to enable more consumption (malls, easy capital) and we are now reaping the rewards that our generation can't afford.

coldtea 9y ago

>Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. Which makes sense, as their main purpose is to be places to shop for clothes, electronics, kitchenware, and so on, not any of those other things.

stevenwoo 9y ago

I agree with you but when I go to the malls in Santa Clara and San Jose (they have food courts close to where I work at times) the malls are surprisingly crowded with usual suspects of teenagers/mothers with children/older possibly retired people/people like me.

loeg 9y ago

One of my local malls has a library branch in it, actually. And it's adjacent to a large park. That said, this isn't typical.

closeparen 9y ago

Malls reliably have enough parking. Getting downtown is a major (and slow) production, particularly if your downtown is progressive enough to intentionally deter access by car.

VLM 9y ago

There are two problems with downtowns, in a tiny city, giant city, whatever. First of all downtown already has a purpose which is to extract middle class home equity, run it thru the retail and restaurant wringer where 95% of businesses fail in the first two years or whatever. Its easy for the city to run downtown; the city doesn't have to worry about parking, for example, because those businesses are designed to fail and new suckers appear as fast as home equity loans can be sold so they don't need parking for businesses that don't have customers LOL. This also becomes self fulfilling, downtown is for dead businesses so why would I go there unless I had to because by definition the businesses downtown suck or they wouldn't be downtown where businesses go to die? Secondly the downtown has drunks, criminals, crazy people, panhandlers, drug addicts in various state of withdrawl, buskers, homeless, and many/most cities are constrained to the light touch, which is nice for those folks, but also means nobody wants to go there. Crazy people have to go somewhere, and downtown has the church mission and a park by the river and a liquor store for self medication. I'm not even remotely interested in hanging out with those people, so I'll go to the Target at the interstate exit instead, or more than a generation ago I'd have gone to a mall where security is at least not non-existent. Your example of a park bench will have a homeless person sleeping on it, the scenic pond will have a drunk peeing in it, the cafes nobody wants to sit at because of aggressive panhandlers and the smell of excrement from the streets and alleys... You're asking for the whites-only exburbs where the average sales price is above $800K to keep out the riff raff that's 30+ miles out of town, I live by those places and they're cool but unachievable for 90% of the population. I live in the 3rd richest suburb in my metro area and even here our downtown is dying, getting overrun. The economy of the future is clustered around interstate exits not some arbitrary place where a railroad put a depot 150 years ago.

lovich 9y ago
I don't know where you are getting the idea that people are congregating around interstate exits now other than your personal experience. Car ownership has been trending down in the US for a few years and the urban population as a percentage of total population has also been growing for a long time.
- ghaff 9y ago

Shivetya 9y ago

Malls should transform into upper levels for residences and lower levels for businesses and relaxation. landscape all the parking down to a decent size business parking for those in the mall and separate parkign for residents. no reason failing malls cannot be remade into such. It has been done and no reason they cannot be a hub for such. but as mass transportation and cars whacked mom&pop stores so the internet reduces the needs for boutique type stores and small chain merchandise oriented stores.

vijayr 9y ago

same with airports - just why do we need sooooooo many shops right next to the terminals? I understand travelers might need some basic stuff (food, water etc) but why other crap, especially so close to the terminals? no wonder airports are so huge

lifeformed 9y ago
There's a lot of downtime for travelers, so shops are a good way for airports to make money, and for travelers to relieve boredom. The airports aren't big because of the shops, they're big because the planes and tarmacs need tons of space.

Parcissons 9y ago

Its the little details in malls, and eveyhwere, that tell you that you are not really wanted. That everyone, just views you as a number, that either goes black or red. For example hotels- i stayed alon in a double room, and noticed that somebody those two beds apart to so they would not have to do the the sheets on the second one. Those little, subtle gestures signifying, that you the customer are just another annoying fact one has to put up with in this world. And the malls are full of them. I love places that signify with "waste" that they like my presence. That small bookstore on the corner, where i buy and order books. I go there, because the salesman will talk about politics and books,often for half an hour. Its a terrible waste and in any place with a CEO, he would be yelled at for a lack of throughput and a failed success at getting me to buy crap. More then anything, in those malls, i hate the voice that a shop, its people and appearance form. "Sheep 815 has entered the room, get him sheared in under 3 Mins, abandon instantly when no quick-sale is possible, prevent him from disrupting goods and sales-process." I honestly abhore shop-keepers who think only about the economical side of theire shops. I know it doesent make sense, but hey im the customer- i dont have too.