18 ms·
Amazon Key is a new service that lets couriers unlock your front door
- api 9y agoAm I the only one who finds this creepy? Of course I also find all these home voice assistants with always-on microphones unbelievably creepy.
- staticelf 9y ago> All this raises a big question, however: will Prime customers trust Amazon to monitor their homes around the clock, and to know when it’s okay to unlock their doors for a stranger? And will the benefit of having your packages delivered quickly and securely outweigh any concerns about privacy and security customers might have? Probably, but I wouldn't. The idea of giving a company full access to your locks is a bit wtf in my books.
- craftyguy 9y agoThat's not a "bit wtf", that's a massively huge WTF?!
- ghaff 9y agoMost things in life are a tradeoff. At various times, most people give access to their house to various service people. Arguably, random delivery people is a bit different but, on the other hand, their access is presumably logged. And, at the same time, package delivery is a PITA for many. For me, it's simple. They leave packages by the door and I've never had an issue but that's not true everywhere. I agree that some sort of lock box outside is probably preferable most of the time but this option doesn't seem out of the bounds of common sense.
- pythonaut_16 9y agoIf this kind of service becomes common I could see homes being built with or retrofitted with "airlocks" so that you can give delivery services access to a secure area to deliver packages without gaining access to the whole home. I wonder if you could outfit the smart lock on a shed or secure package box and let them deliver to that?
- chrisper 9y agoYou mean a porch with a porch door? No need for a fancy name like "airlock" ;)
- majewsky 9y agoHow does a porch look on an apartment (building), then?
- Kluny 9y agoLots of apartments already have airlocks.
- send_computers 9y agoVery similar to an airlock
- BoorishBears 9y agoLots of options. My apartment and several in the area, have a concierge, and they’ll act as a “porch” and even deliver it to your door later in the day Some apartments have mail rooms, some with automated entry based on if you have a package or not It’s largely a solved problem
- ThomPete 9y agoNot on manhattan. There are a lot of issues in older building complexes as they werent build for the amount of deliveries we see today.
- cat199 9y agoprobably had more deliveries: dairy man mailman seltzer water man whomever else delivered stuff man but, they also probably had someone at home all day.
- 9y ago
- Numberwang 9y agoI'd be super happy giving them access as it would simplify my life greatly. I'm happy they offer this service. Now if only they could pick up and return my laundry too (like some other companies offer) Or deliver fresh food (like Ocado)
- ballenf 9y ago> Or deliver fresh food... Since they have a key, maybe they could go ahead and get started cooking it for us too.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- afarrell 9y agoQuestion for those more familiar with 4th amendment jurisprudence than I am: if you give a group of strangers access to your home, does that remove your expectation of privacy in that area? If so, does that make evidence against you gathered through warrantless searches of that area admissable in court? Or would it only expose you to evidence in plain view/hear/smell? My intuition is that granting consent for some action to one group of strangers does not grant consent to a different group of strangers, but I am not a lawyer.
- criddell 9y agoNo, I don't think it would. There are plenty of people that grant access to their homes to service providers like cleaning services, dog walkers, etc... Legally, I don't think there's much new here.
- eqmvii 9y agoYou only consent to allow delivery people into your home, not the police. The 4th amendment doesn't have a trickery loophole, your reasonable expectation of privacy is always with respect to the police, not to other businesses and people you give trust to. The police can't set up a fake carwash and then warrantlessly search all of the cars that show up just because you're handing over the keys and consenting to let strangers in. Your home would be no different. Another, perhaps better example: a landlord typically has a set of keys and the right to access a tenant's apartment. In a commercial building, those keys could be held by any number of "strangers" on the maintenance staff. The police still need a warrant, they can't just ask the landlord for a set of keys. That's really not any different from having the "keys" held by Amazon staff members. There are lots of instances where a person's expectation of privacy is low with respect to specific people/businesses but high with respect to the government, and that doesn't weaken their 4th amendment protections.
- DarronWyke 9y agoThis is correct. Also a good overall note here is that the Constitution only applies between the government and the people. Private entities (businesses, for example) are not beholden to respect your rights. A point to bring up with regards to landlords is that both State law and contract law (your lease) enable them to enter the dwelling under very special circumstances, usually such as an immediate threat to life. They may also enter to do various tasks such as inspections but laws usually mandate notice that must be given and how. Here in Texas, it's a minimum of 24 hours written notice for the latter.
- jfoster 9y agoHow much do you know about the company that manufactured your door lock? In some parts of the world, electronic locks (eg. from Samsung) are quite common.
- mholmes680 9y agoMaybe I'm seeing it wrong -- but "giving a company full access" isn't exactly right. Its more, you have "the ability to control who has access to your locks and Amazon is probably your biggest user". Some other anecdotes: When my townhome was broken into, I learned that windows are way less secure than smart locks. If someone wants in your home, they're going to get in. When my house caught on fire, I would have loved to have been able to let the first-responder in remotely as we were an hour away, the fire company was 20 mins, and seconds count.
- djrogers 9y agoFirefighters basically never have difficulties entering single family homes... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar
- emerged 9y agoThen all the delivery service needs is one of these Halligan bars to ensure your rolls of toilet paper and Hawaiian themed mouse pad are safely delivered inside your home.
- mholmes680 9y agoI'm going to buy one of these for my fire company. It took them (I'm told, I still wasn't there) 5 mins to get through my old 1960s solid wood door.
- cr0sh 9y agoI just looked around - full-sized versions are pretty expensive; a 30" version I found from one supplier was around $300.00. Though I did find a 16" version for $80.00 - I'm thinking a tool like this might come in handy for off-roading use.
- mholmes680 9y agoworth every penny, those guys (in my town, volunteers) are heroes.
- kobeya 9y ago> Probably, but I wouldn't. The idea of giving a company full access to your locks is a bit wtf in my books. What if Amazon accept full liability for use of the lock though their system?
- cheschire 9y agoHere's another frightening thought: What happens when Amazon is coerced by the FBI and secret courts to authorize entry.
- Hupriene 9y agoAmazon wouldn't have a possessory interest in your apartment, so they couldn't consent to a search. Amazon could certainly be coerced into unlocking the door, but the FBI could also just use their boots to coerce the door into unlocking on its own.
- EADGBE 9y agoYeah, people on here are talking like their front door is Fort Knox. For most it is not, and as mentioned in other comments, a window is much easier to get through.
- tomjen3 9y agoYeah, reading up on it it seems like I need reactive/explosive armour on my door to keep people out.
- EADGBE 9y agoProbably the same ones with the giant glass sidelights, too. Extra points for no curtains/blinds.
- imtringued 9y agoThe primary risk is in thieves entering your home without leaving any traces. Breaking through a door or windows requires a certain amount of risk and commitment. If a malicious hacker gets remote access to a smart lock the risk is effectively zero.
- morganvachon 9y ago> "If a malicious hacker gets remote access to a smart lock the risk is effectively zero." Especially if said malicious actor can also control the camera that is meant to record anyone entering the home.
- walshemj 9y agoAnd would amazon want the cost of the background checks - I know this is done for some medical deliveries Baxter Health Care does this for home dialysis deliveries (over a 1/3 of a ton a month) but that's a small number of vetted drivers,
- CamelCaseName 9y agoWhat if they simply time the entry? E.g. a courier taps to unlock the door, within 30 seconds, they must tap to lock the door or the local police will be called.
- gregmac 9y agoThere's an approximately zero percent chance the police would be involved in that. Many police forces charge each time they respond to a false alarm, and the cost generally goes up each time it happens. On top of that, an automated alarm signal (with no human confirmation) is pretty much considered the lowest priority call, and they may not even attend at all. This is why most businesses have a private security company to respond to their alarms. They're generally significantly faster (and often have a guaranteed response time), and if a security guard shows up, sees a crime in progress and calls police, it's actually a very high priority call and will get immediate police response.
- ig1 9y agoIt's standard practice for cleaning/home-maid services and a number of food delivery services (e.g. Abel and Cole) already do this. It's just a matter of trust and reliability.
- km3k 9y agoI actually like this idea for cleaning services and such. Now you don't have to arrange giving them a key and trying to track down that key when you're done with their services. Tracking down that key is the worst. They have no incentive to give it back. I'd like to see how Amazon manages the access. Can access be revoked manually? Can you generate your own access permissions to give to a friend? Is this access code a one-time code?
- ghaff 9y agoThere are tons of keypad locks out there already that let you give people temporary codes and then delete them. I don't use that feature a lot but I can see it being very handy if you have a lot of service people who need access to your house.
- rzzzt 9y agoThere are mechanical solutions for revoking access (although it can only be done once in this particular case): https://youtu.be/cKDBoE-kYFk https://youtu.be/cKDBoE-kYFk
- staticelf 9y agoIs it standard to enable them to remotely unlock your door?
- Chaebixi 9y agoEspecially since Amazon Logistics uses a gig-economy workforce. There's literally no telling who you'd be giving access to your home. Could be a burglar with a stolen identity who signed up for a 2-hour shift.
- Zaheer 9y agoIf someone really wants access to your home can't they just pick the lock or forcibly enter through other means? It doesn't seem very hard to access most homes.
- Chaebixi 9y agoDoes that mean you'd leave your doors unlocked?
- morganvachon 9y agoThey can, but the risk of being caught by neighbors and passers-by increases with forced entry. Show up in a delivery outfit, with a code that lets you in the house, and you look legit even to the police.
- brndnmtthws 9y agoGive Amazon a key to my home? Hmm. They want to listen to me inside my home, watch me with a camera, and also be able to unlock my front door? "It's safe, you can trust us! We'll never spy on you!" -- Jeff Bezos
- kawsper 9y agoPardon my ignorance, but how is Amazon watching customers with a camera?
- 24gttghh 9y agoWell, they could conceivably watch as you enter/exit your home, but if you have Alexa already then I would think they could infer from silence or lack-thereof whether the home is occupied.
- dbbk 9y agoAlexa doesn't open any connection to Amazon servers until you say the hotword 'Alexa'.
- 24gttghh 9y agoOne could still infer from a lack of 'Alexa' hotword prompts over a span of time whether the home was occupied I reckon.
- zimpenfish 9y agoOr Bluetooth connections if you can use it as a speaker. Or the presence of other devices on the WIFI. There's a few ways you can passively detect human presence, I think.
- twothamendment 9y agoThat kinda logic doesn't work. Just because someone doesn't use Alexa for hours doesn't mean they aren't home. It happens every night.
- theDoug 9y agoWalmart has also previously announced a similar idea. I'm curious how insurers will respond to this.
- dingaling 9y agoI'd say it's most likely that insurers will just consider it falling under the current guest-exemption clause i.e. any damage or loss caused to your home or contents by people you invited onto the premises is not covered. Truly caveat emptor, unless the retailers themselves start carrying third-party insurance like tradesmen often do.
- 24gttghh 9y ago>The courier then gets a prompt on their app, swipes the screen, and voilà, your door unlocks. They drop off the package, relock the door with another swipe, and are on their way. Yah, except when they forget to re-lock your door. No thanks. If anything the door should auto-lock after the door is initially opened, but I still would not allow a delivery person access to my home. I'm sure most delivery persons are fine but I have not heard good things about the "courier services" Amazon has been using lately.
- craftyguy 9y ago> If anything the door should auto-lock after the door is initially opened No. If anything, people will hopefully realize this is probably the worst possible idea for privacy and security they could possibly do in their homes and tell amazon to piss off.
- 24gttghh 9y agoI'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me, but I agree that this is a terrible idea from amazon.
- craftyguy 9y agoI was disagreeing with your one comment that implied this would be OK if they auto-relocked, by arguing that none of this is OK at all. I generally agreed with the rest of your comment though
- 24gttghh 9y agoThe fact they don't even auto-lock is just one of many things wrong with this idea; is what I was trying to say I suppose :)
- dkrich 9y agoAgreed. They have no quality control over their own deliveries. I live in a multi-tenant building and in my experience Amazon deliveries are hilariously unreliable. They have a hard time gaining access to my building and usually just leave packages outside where they are very often stolen. The only way deliveries will work for Amazon without the use of drones is if they open up the delivery service like AWS so that other businesses can use it. The reason I believe that is that deliveries need to be reliable. In order for them to be reliable you need to have regular drivers, ie, full-time employees who drive the same routes everyday. But Amazon doesn't deliver nearly enough packages for that line of business to make any sense whatsoever, so the solution would be to let others ship via Amazon deliveries at a lower cost and faster rate than UPS, FedEx, or USPS and perhaps subsidize the losses from other lines of business or raise the price of Prime to offset it. Ultimately, Amazon is trying to compete with USPS in this space, not FedEx or UPS who want no part of last-mile deliveries.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- deanCommie 9y ago"It's okay, it's Amazon!" (Reference: https://youtu.be/xf9V2l7l5Z4?t=26 https://youtu.be/xf9V2l7l5Z4?t=26)
- voidmain0001 9y agoI hadn't seen that clip before. Well played, and thank you!
- rusk 9y agoNo. Just no.
- kpwags 9y agoI'm sorry, but I don't really feel comfortable letting Amazon into my home. To be fair, I feel the same about UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc.
- danielsamuels 9y agoThere's actually a super simple solution for your concerns - don't choose the "in-home delivery" option.
- chillingeffect 9y agoIn addition to letting them into your home, its outward-facing camera lets them into your neighborhood, setting the stage for feature-creep, facial recognition, immigrant surveillance, automobile surveillance, subpoena'd police access, poorly-managed data, etc. We tolerate this from a security company's cameras because that's their specific intention and the quality costs a monthly premium. From cutthroat retailers like Amazon, Walmart, etc., I have no expectation of ideal behavior.
- kleff 9y agoFor packages wouldn't selling a mailbox with this smart lock system make much more sense than full access to the entire house?
- dkrich 9y agoNobody but the USPS is allowed to put anything in or remove anything from a mailbox. If you're talking about a separate locker, not a bad idea but I'd assume that would be a lot more costly than replacing your lock and also would introduce all sorts of variability about size and where it would be placed.
- mholmes680 9y agoYes, I assumed Amazon Shed as a personal outside-the-home locker would have been next, but installing a key and camera does seem probably cheaper.
- bayouborne 9y agoYes, or a strong-box that interlocks with a closed exterior door. Amazon's no longer content to just metaphorically want access to our homes and lives, now they actually want in..
- calgoo 9y agoLike the dvd rental return boxes in movie rental stores.
- toabi 9y agoDHL in Germany offers sth. like that: https://www.dhl.de/de/privatkunden/pakete-empfangen/pakete-zuhause-empfangen/paketkasten.html https://www.dhl.de/de/privatkunden/pakete-empfangen/pakete-z... - without the smarts.
- chrisper 9y agoAmazon has lockerboxes too.
- calvinbhai 9y agoGreat concept. I have used a few smart locks (until last year), and I must say the experience has not been anything close to good or amazing. Batteries are drained almost all the time, the lock can sometimes refuse to work. For Amazon's Key service to work well, they need to have the locks work very reliably. The lock may be the Key's weakest link (not in terms of security, but in terms of reliability).
- alistairSH 9y agoInteresting. What brand lock were you using? My father's beach house has Yale z-wave locks and they have been reliable enough.
- royroyroys 9y agoCan confirm. :) Having had a Yale z-wave lock on my front door without issue for about 18 months and have had to change the batteries once.
- calvinbhai 9y agowow. change batteries or recharge once in 18 months? How often does it require recharging? No I want to try yale locks :-|
- calvinbhai 9y agoNice. mine were initial versions of Lockitron. And then an August(didn't have much patience to test it, so returned it). Haven't tried Yale Z-wave (is it standalone? or is it bundled with a security service?). I'll give it a try when I move next time.
- alistairSH 9y agoAh, yeah, I was skeptical of the upstart brands. Yale and Schlage seem to be reliable (Dad has used both, his rental agency prefers the Yale on all homes for consistency). Z-wave and Zigbee are two of the common home automation protocols. So, you'd use those locks (or other devices) in conjunction with an automation hub (I use Samsung Smartthings, Dad uses a Vera). Some will also integrate with the Nest system or Alexa, but I'm not sure if that's directly, or via one of the hubs I mentioned. You can build your own "security" system with these. Quotes because adding cellular/phone support isn't usually directly supported, though there are ways to hack it together. I have mine set with timers, motion sensors, a Nest thermostat, and light switches. I'll add cameras eventually - waiting to see how the Nest video doorbell works out (if it's good, I'll likely cough up the money and go all Nest camera).
- mtgx 9y agoYes, give Amazon contractors the key to your house. I'm sure nothing could go wrong.
- anc84 9y ago"Oh, hi Alexa, I didn't realise you were here already. Carry on. I'll be next door then."
- jeddawson 9y agoIt'll be interesting how this works at homes with pets. I could see that being a major concern for a household that would otherwise be fine with an in home delivery. Will Amazon have couriers that are diligent enough to ensure an escaped cat is returned?
- JustSomeNobody 9y agoHow about the homeowner putting the pet in a closed room the day a delivery is expected? Why put this on the delivery man?
- andyjohnson0 9y agoAmazon CloudKennel™ will lure your pet into the kennel before the courier arrives and keep it secure while the delivery takes place. Choose from an extensive range of pet-bait on Amazon Fresh and Amazon Video. Suitable for common domestic animals only. Monthly subscription and wifi connection required. Restrictions apply.
- LeifCarrotson 9y agoI'm not sure why this is being downvoted. The Amazon rules have an exception specifically for this case: if your pet can access the front door on delivery day. They've framed it slightly more positively and gently (I'd prefer, for my pet's sake, that they require the dog to be in a closed room), but that's exactly what it means. I suppose some people might assume this means something silly like locking your cat in a broom closet of your one-room studio apartment, when many homes with dogs have a 'dog room' which is where the pet(s) stay when the owners are out of the house. Separating your pet from potential problems is a part of responsible pet ownership. As the owner of a Newfoundland mix, I highly recommend it even without Amazon Key - not only does my dog appreciate having her own comfortable space in which she sleeps and to which she can retreat when there are too many people over, but it helps slightly contain the hopeless shedding and drool.
- NiklasMort 9y agoor you know you could just do delivery on a specified time...like in most countries I know of
- sashk 9y agoWhen Amazon deliveries are always left under sign "Don't leave your package here, leave it few feet away", I will trust some random dude to open my front door in order to deliver my package.
- cjsuk 9y agoErr no. Whoever came up with this idea should simply be taken outside and shot. Actually whoever allowed it to get to this state of development should be shot. The ideas guy and the worker bees are just doing what they say. There is nothing good that could come of this. Nothing even slightly at all.
- YPCrumble 9y agoHaha that's reminiscent of people who said AirBnB was a crazy idea!
- cjsuk 9y agoIt is a crazy idea. Look how well received it is: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.airbnb.com https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.airbnb.com Anything based on abstracted trust is a disaster waiting to happen.
- overcast 9y agoAirBnB is a crazy idea. I wouldn't let strangers stay at my house, let alone walk in to deliver a package.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- neuigkeiten 9y agoIt will be very interesting to see if this gets traction. I would never ever give a company access to my home. But maybe the next generation will not have a sense of privacy at all. But rather accept that mankind kind of grows together into one huge brain. From my perspective, I wonder: Are there not enough places where Amazon can drop off packages? In my street, all kinds of shops will accept parcels for you. Are new houses these days built with "drop off" areas that can be opened with an access code?
- alistairSH 9y agoOutside of mixed urban neighborhoods, is this really a problem that needs solving? I try to have packages delivered to my office for convenience, but still have plenty delivered to my home, where they sit on the front stoop until I get home.
- josefresco 9y agoLot's of "nope" here. While it's okay in my neighborhood for a delivery service to leave my packages on my front deck, there are many others who would not be comfortable with this. For those people, I see this as a huge draw.
- jlebrech 9y agoI love amazon lockers, you don't have to worry if some idiot has been or not. i'd also like to see "don't deliver to my house option", meaning i'll come and pick it up from a depot the same day.
- itafroma 9y ago> i'd also like to see "don't deliver to my house option", meaning i'll come and pick it up from a depot the same day. This almost exists in Portland, OR at least: many items have an option for "one-day pickup": https://smile.amazon.com/gp/campus?campusId=CAMPUS_POR https://smile.amazon.com/gp/campus?campusId=CAMPUS_POR I say "almost" because it's not same-day: it's overnight.
- jlebrech 9y agoby same day, i mean as soon as it's at a close enough depot for me to pick up.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- johnhenry 9y agoInitially, I saw this and thought it was an AWS service. Then, I realized how bad of an idea it is to allow third-party access to non-revokable private keys.
- jcun4128 9y agoMan this and WalMart haha Edit: oh well I'm setting up my own home camera facing the door and hopefully with opencv can tell if it's not me but that's a dream/future goal at this time. The bot net is an interesting question Cloudflare I guess or use high load design like node, will see. Edit: will add I want this because I will be living by myself and maintenance people have keys/can open my door if I'm not there. Probably a dumb concern but oh well I'm poor too. I realize proof is in the pudding, bought the parts, started the repo will see Overall though sounding like a luddite, not keen on strangers having a key into my home despite liability on their behalf. If there was a second door with regard to package dropoff that would be something.
- wilwade 9y agoLet's think about this for a minute. (ignoring if the tech works) 1. For people without a security system, there are many simple ways to get into a house. If you are worried about people getting into your house, you might not want this, but you better also already have a nice security system (that is also not on a botnet). 2. At least for us, we generally recognize our UPS & USPS folk that deliver to our house. 3. This has a log and video of the drop off. 4. Who do you trust more? The people delivering your package or the random person driving around the neighborhood looking for packages that would imply you are not at home? (or just grabbing your package) All that said, usually someone is at home when we get deliveries so I wouldn't buy it (also don't use Amazon much). But I don't see the reason for the backlash.
- jgrahamc 9y ago2. At least for us, we generally recognize our UPS & USPS folk that deliver to our house. I would not recognize the Amazon subcontractors that visit my house/office. They are optimizing for least cost.
- alistairSH 9y agoYeah, Amazon seems to use a mix of USPS, FedEx/UPS, and private couriers. And because I'm in a townhouse complex with remote mailboxes, I wouldn't recognize any of them.
- zimpenfish 9y agoArticle specifically says this is restricted to Amazon Logistics delivery. No subcontractors.
- zippergz 9y agoI regularly get deliveries from Amazon Logistics. It’s always a random person in their own car, no uniform. Indistinguishable from an Uber or Postmates driver.
- quickben 9y ago5. Amazon also contracts deliveries out (at least in Toronto). I've had guys in unmarked cars show up with packages.
- cpcallen 9y agoOn the one hand, I can definitely understand all the "nope" in this thread. On the other hand, I wonder why the camera is a required part of this system.
- michaelt 9y agoTwo reasons: 1. To avoid the Amazon driver getting the blame for things done by your kids/partner/dog/whatever. 2. To keep the drivers honest.
- zimpenfish 9y ago3. To keep the customers honest
- sillyquiet 9y agoI don't hate this idea, but we have a large Anatolian shepherd mix that is perpetually guarding her 'meadow', so don't think this will work for us.
- gerardnll 9y agoThat's great, 250$ for a lock that saves time to couriers. A trip to a pickup point costs much less (walking 3 corners for me)...
- Klathmon 9y agoAnd a trip to a pickup point for me is about an hour of travel time and having to find a parking spot in a crowded street. Isn't it nice that they offer multiple options for multiple different people with multiple use cases?
- EADGBE 9y agoWhat? No? You're life's not exactly like mine? Yours must be wrong. /s
- twothamendment 9y agoI thought I was the only one who thought that way!
- gerardnll 9y agoDistance aside, 250$ is crazy for being able to receive packages when you're not home. Modern society problems at its finest.
- Klathmon 9y agoIt's not $250 to receive packages when you're not home, it's $250 to receive packages securely without the possibility of them being stolen from your front porch. And it's just a different "implementation" of many other products that have been invented to do the same thing. [0] is a "package lock box" that gives a similar result for $230. But it's ugly, won't store larger boxes, and is often harder to get your delivery people to use. If your packages are getting repeatedly stolen, I don't think it's any more "crazy" than you replacing a faulty computer part in your PC. Yes, that's a "modern society problem" as well, but it's not crazy in the slightest... [0] http://a.co/efwOSZf http://a.co/efwOSZf
- moocowtruck 9y agoI see one big issue with this...sure mr amazon man can open my door but... what he going to do about my 160lbs st bernard an rottweiler who don't understand he's the amazon man :P) my rottweiler is the most obedient dog i've ever had, but he is also a security guard master.. and i don't know how to convey to him since he already doesn't appreciate the mail person, that amazon person is ok.
- dazc 9y agoI think the obvious answer is that this service is probably not a good fit for you?
- yoda_sl 9y agoI guess people like us - i have 2 Belgium Shepherd dogs, are not the target market. Probably for us Amazon will try to promote their “Amazon Locker”. I just noticed yesterday that they are now being installed at Whole Foods, which make sense.
- wooshy 9y agoThen you probably aren't the target for this service.
- csours 9y agoI would flip that on you: What kind of liability would you incur if you signed up for this service, knowing you have a protective dog?
- walshemj 9y agoIn the UK dog bites are the most common cause off time of sick for posties
- notyourday 9y agoYour insurance is going to go through the roof.
- walshemj 9y ago
- youdontknowtho 9y agoI'm going to watch the thread over time, but given other threads I've read on HN, I would have expected far, far, more privacy maximalists. Compare this against one of the popular "love to hate" subjects like telemetry gathering or surveillance. (Yes, I get how some people see them as the same thing.)
- epalmer 9y agoNo, no, no. Not my house.
- major505 9y agoLeaving a camera inside my house connected to amazon servers, and allow entrey of works while I'm not home? No Thanks. I still preer 2 big locks and a big dog taking care of my home while I'm not there.
- cooervo 9y agoFuck this is VERY CREEPY. Giving a company the power to enter your home. Why is this even considered normal.
- losteverything 9y agoThere are a few on my route that would embrace this. They are Amazon addicts. Over 550 parcel deliveries a year. Trust has been won by Amazon.
- AnkhMorporkian 9y agoWait, 550 to one house? That's... amazing. I had 43 this year and I thought I was a hopeless case.
- losteverything 9y agoI got a small route (all residential) and have delivered over 15,000 parcels ytd. Less than half is Amazon but Amazon is by far the most Edit: if u are wondering.. Stay at home new mother (now "new" 2+ yrs ago) is absolute gold. Locked into ultimate convenience. 2-3 packages a day. Wont trust Amazon Fresh. Tried once. Never again
- AnkhMorporkian 9y agoI like Pantry, but I live in a small town where Fresh isn't available. Thanks for the warning though.
- TrueGeek 9y agoWe get tons of Amazon boxes plus a 30 lbs bag of dog food every Wednesdays from Chewy.com. I've always felt bad for our UPS driver. He's a nice guy, very carefull with the boxes and almost always wraps them in plastic if it's going to rain. What should we get him for Christmas?
- losteverything 9y agoA. Cash B. Cash C. Cash No dunkin, please. No bottles of wine, please. No home made cookies, please. No gift cards, please. Cash is best and greatly appreciated. Look at it this way... If everyone gives cash it is a nice stash. (only 43% tip me and i bust my butt) Having 10 $5-15 dunkin cards (the most i had one year was $135 Dunkin. And i don't even like dunkin!) cant buy your spouse a nice christmas gift How much? My range is $5-$400. $35 is a sound number
- peterwwillis 9y agoWhy does the postal service leave all Amazon packages on front stoops? They do in Baltimore, anyway, as a matter of policy. The USPS packages they bring back to their facility for you to pick up. This key service seems kind of like an intentional workaround for that problem.
- interfixus 9y agoOver my cold, dead body.
- kmano8 9y agoAt a past apartment in the city, I gave a key to the front mud-room area to my UPS guy. It was the best thing ever. That said, Amazon subcontractors routinely leave packages on my front stoop in the city in spite of the sign I have the asks for packages to be dropped over the side fence. A number have been taken -- and I wouldn't say it's not their fault packages get stolen in cities, but it's common sense leaving something on a stoop probably isn't a great idea. UPS/Fedex seem to always drop over my fence. No way I'd trust amazon to execute this well in the first few years.
- rdl 9y agoIf I had a house set up with a single room (foyer, mud room, etc.) with an external door openable with this, and an interior door openable only by me, I'd love to have the ability for Amazon to drop packages there. Keep the room on video, make sure the front door has logging, and it'd be pretty reasonable overall.
- bradbatt 9y agoThat's a solid idea. Will be interesting to see if things like this change how new homes are designed.
- davidkuhta 9y agoFor a second I thought you were commenting under /u/jurassic and envisioned an uber-altruistic future where homes are built to include an entryway for the homeless to escape winter cold.
- simias 9y agoI find it amusing that you consider that an "uber-altruistic" future would mean having homeless people sleep on the floor of a small empty entryway. I think there's probably a better and more efficient way to solve that problem.
- ObeyTheGuts 9y agoThere is no more efficient humane way to solve this, any "homeless shelter" type of thing is useless as crazy people gather there making sleep impossible. As homeless i loved use external water taps near houses for my water and trash for food and sleep under any private thing, it was humane as fuck. Things like people puting good food, clothes next to trash made life realy ez same as this lil cute extra space would.
- davidkuhta 9y agoI wasn't meaning that the open entryways were a solution for homelessness, only that a society which was accepting of a design element incorporated into their homes which was intentionally for utilization by and to the benefit of a stranger could reasonably be described as 'uber-altruistic'.
- floatingatoll 9y agoI was confused that the article fails to mention that UPS, at least, expressly prohibits drivers from crossing the threshold unless you’re taking a package from them with outstretched arms. They can’t even “set it down inside”, kindness or not - doing so is a violation. Or used to be when it last came up for me, anyways.
- dvcrn 9y agoIs delivering packages really that hard in the states? Where I live almost every apartment has post boxes in the entrance area. Amazon drops the package in there and when I come home all I have to do is touch my key on the machine and it spits out my package. More advanced machines even send you emails when something got delivered.
- agentdrtran 9y agoNone of the buildings by me have a locked package area.
- prklmn 9y agoMany people live in houses where anyone can walk up to your front door and steal what's in front of it. The delivery is not hard, it's what comes next that's the challenge.
- bagacrap 9y agoI'm sure it exists in theory but I've never lived somewhere with a system more advanced than "fold the door mat over it". And no home owner I know has a giant treasure chest on the front porch but if they did they'd still need some way to allow delivery persons to unlock it. Best defense to theft seems to be paying a lot of rent to live in a nice neighborhood. If it's an expensive package they'll usually require a signature which means I'll have it delivered to my workplace. I think Amazon probably doesn't want to rely on people having lots of money and accommodating employers.
- Rainymood 9y agoWhat I think the most silly thing I keep seeing in America is packages being "delivered" (read: left) on your front porch or doorstep ... like, why? Someone now can just grab it!? If someone is not home, what happens here (Netherlands) that the package gets delivered by the neighbours and you get a little note it was delivered to the neighbours. Neighbours aren't home? Try the next one until the delivery guy gives up or doesn't care anymore and delivers it the next day.
- bradstewart 9y ago
- tryingagainbro 9y agoAmazon delivery person sees a marijuana plant ...call the police. Etc etc. No thanks. I'll pick it up at a delivery hub or keep coming back./
- _Codemonkeyism 9y agoAnd someone takes a good look at your possessions and someone else comes 3 week later to take them. No thanks.
- prklmn 9y agoThis hits at the overlying issue...you are not trusting Amazon with access to your home, you are implicitly trusting the person working for Amazon, oh who by the way may not be making a liveable wage, with access to your home.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y agoI'm not trusting the vetting process Amazon is applying, especially after I experienced many problems with people working for Amazon Logistics.
- artur_makly 9y agowhy not just crate fortefied boxes that get retrofitted to houses instead?
- FidelCashflow 9y agoNot a chance I'd use this "service" for any purpose much less install any kind of "smart" lock on my primary residence. A place used for AirBnB, maybe I'd use a more featured lock but never at my home.
- dalbasal 9y agoI've called things a silly idea before and been wrong, so who knows. That caveat in place, this might be a time to start from the bottom of the idea tree and try some of the more obvious limbs. If the problem this solves is absent deliveries, don't we just need bigger mailboxes or maybe even smart mailboxes? Maybe they're thinking about this differently. Maybe it's about building trust, or just getting amazon smartstuff into homes for some other underpants plan. At face value, a cloud connected lock seems excessive.
- redm 9y agoI had similar thoughts. Has Amazon posted any statistics on package theft when packages are left at the front door? I'm wondering if Amazon is acting of perceived fears to strengthen it's foothold in the home or trying to reduce losses by subsidizing a somewhat complex solution?
- arkades 9y agoUnlike a smart mailbox, this lets them plug your front door / the smartlock business line into Alexa. They get to do the same with video surveillance of the home, which they’ve been pushing with their fashion app and whatnot - so this means in the future they can possibly integrate these inward-facing cameras into services they’re already developing. It seems like this is a play for pushing a smart home ecology around Alexa.
- brianmartinek 9y agoWith one of my recent Amazon deliveries, a picture was taken of the package sitting in front of my mailbox. It was accessible through the Amazon app when I received the delivery notification. It's an apartment building, so it was nice to know where it was left since the location of packages delivered seems to vary based on which company delivers it. My very first thought when I saw it was this was a solution to prove that a delivery took place in cases of package theft.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- 9y ago
- djrogers 9y ago> Amazon only trusts its own delivery team to handle this work. If this includes the ‘any guy with a minivan’ amazon flex drivers, then I’m out - I’ve heard way too many wacky stories about them to trust that enough for a lock.
- quotha 9y agoA vampire cannot just enter your home -- you have to invite him in!
- hypersoar 9y agoMy parents installed a lockbox on their porch for packages. They include the combination to unlock it in the delivery address, which works most of the time. It's secure enough for the task and obscures whether or not a package is sitting out indicating you're not home. Plus, if it falls, the failure is contained. You could even get all cloudy-wowdy about it, if you want. Have the delivery folk use NFC, or some such, to get in. I find the "include the code in the address" solution pretty elegant, though. This seems to me like a better solution for their suburban single-family house. ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it. They could easily sell Amazon Qubbies with the same pitch they're making here. I can only conclude that the real goal is to get you to install those cameras. Side-anecdote/thought: I used to live in a mixed-use building with 20 units, or so. One of the businesses downstairs was a DVD rental place (this was only a couple years ago; they're still there!), and they volunteered to accept packages for the upstairs residents. Little informal services like that can add up to something that can't be replicated by all the technology in the world, and I worry a bit about the consequences of seeking to obsolesce them.
- elsewhen 9y ago> I can only conclude that the real goal is to get you to install those cameras I suspect that the ultimate goal is to grant home access to their home-services pros (ie home cleaners) while you are away.
- gnicholas 9y agoAlso food delivery, so they could put food in your fridge. It's not hard to imagine Amazon stocking everyone's pantries during the day while people are at work.
- deegles 9y agoAmazon should have bought TaskRabbit for that!
- ballenf 9y agoKind of an amazing age where the concept of a butler on demand is available to the middle class. I don't like the idea for myself, but the concept is incredible.
- gotchange 9y ago> When a courier arrives with a package for in-home delivery, they scan the barcode, sending a request to Amazon’s cloud. If everything checks out, the cloud grants permission by sending a message back to the camera, which starts recording. The courier then gets a prompt on their app, swipes the screen, and voilà, your door unlocks. They drop off the package, relock the door with another swipe, and are on their way. The customer will get a notification that their delivery has arrived, along with a short video showing the drop-off to confirm everything was done properly. So, you only need a valid smart card, a working Amazon courier app and a balaclava to gain an unencumbered access to any of these homes?
- eric_the_read 9y agoWell, that, and presumably a package that is scheduled to be delivered to the home in question that has also not been marked as delivered. I'm just astonished that they believe a delivery person will bother-- I've never had a delivery (that wasn't booze) that didn't involve the driver being back in their truck by the time I got to the door after it rang. This sounds like it would add at least 10-30 seconds to a delivery, and I don't see a driver going for it.
- eli 9y agoUm, sure, or just break a window
- fenwick67 9y agoI always bring this up too. However, when somebody breaks a window, you know what happened. When somebody just randomly unlocks your front door while you're out, it's not apparent.
- eli 9y agoMy threat model is getting robbed. I expect I will know if this happens regardless of mode of entry.
- gotchange 9y ago
- Nikkau 9y agoNext step: Amazon guys have to wear a shock collar by contract, an IA oversees every drop and stun him if anything suspect happen.
- jarym 9y agoSo say I live in Germany and Amazon gets served a warrant in the US to facilitate in remotely unlocking my door. Amazon could theoretically unlock my front door from their HQ in the US. What are the legal ramifications of this? We're not talking about access to data anymore, but potentially access to physical locations that would otherwise be outside of direct US jurisdiction.
- dubcanada 9y agoI don't mean to sound rude, but doors are not exactly hard to get through. They are rather easy, chances are if they get a warrant it doesn't matter that Amazon can open your door, so can the police. And wasting time calling Amazon rather then just smashing your door down (or knocking) seems like a bit much.
- jarym 9y agoNot rude but there’s a difference between forcing your way through a door and having a door unlocked for you (and via a legal means outside of the physical jurisdiction of the door). It shouldn’t matter how ‘tough’ the door lock is either way. 4 digit ATM codes are easy to break too - we still expect them to provide a level of protection
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- gnicholas 9y agoSo how would this work if you have an alarm system? The door would unlock, they'd come in, but unless they're also given the alarm code then it would end up going off. This seems like a pretty big stumbling block, because asking people to give out an alarm code means that anyone who ever delivers to your place can get into your house later (unless you change the delivery code every week or something, which would be an ongoing hassle).
- ahjushi 9y agoFrom my understanding a delivery person cannot get into your house at any time--you are not giving them any code to your door. They are scanning a barcode on your package via the camera, and that will be their "key". No package, no key. Good consideration about the alarm code, though even with it they couldn't get in unless they have a verified delivery.
- gnicholas 9y agoYeah, they're not allowed to get into your house at any time...but if they remember the code and then come back later they can disarm your alarm system after breaking in. Maybe you get an alert or a call from your alarm company, but if they can disable the loud ringing then they can make off with a bunch of stuff before anyone shows up (and without the neighbors thinking anything is awry, since they wouldn't hear anything abnormal). edit: I'm curious to know whether the people downvoting this comment have an alarm system and are happy to give out their alarm code, or if they're people who do not have alarm system and just think that, at a glance, this seems paranoid. I have an alarm system and have never given out the code to anyone. We've thought about giving it to some people whom we trust, but after we thought about it decided against.
- LinuxBender 9y agoIs this the same couriers that throw packages over fences and do long-throws onto porches?
- ryanpcmcquen 9y agoNo, just no.
- Dowwie 9y agoThis is not the first offering of its kind and it won't be the last. It just happens to be Amazon.
- jo909 9y agoEven without privacy concerns etc, I could not use that. The only door lock that I can change is the one to my apartment, but there is another locked door at the street entrance. I would not want to subject my neighbors to couriers asking to be buzzed in all the time.
- wnevets 9y agoNo thanks, this is not a product for me. Just leave the package in front of my door. Who is this meant for?
- dpeck 9y agoIts about the home services delivery angle. The courier is just the simplest one to explain to get some level of adoption.
- beedogs 9y agoAmazon hasn't had a good idea in almost a decade, and this hare-brained scheme isn't bucking that trend.
- DonHopkins 9y agoDarn, I was hoping it was a service for remotely scratching car paint by drone.
- synicalx 9y agoHow do we abbreviate this? Door unlocking as a service, DUaaS? Seriously though, this leads to so many questions. - Why would anyone give a COMPANY access to their house? And why are people ok with random strangers roaming around their house, amongst all their valuables? - What happens when the inevitably unpatched/out-of-support IoT lock gets jacked? Will people be forced to buy another $250 lock/camera set every year or two so they can keep receiving updates? - Is theft/break-in insurance even valid if you've given someone else the proverbial keys to your house? - What's your recourse if the delivery driver, or the dog walker swipes your Rolex? I will never wrap my head around why people are so eager to spend lots of money to erode what little privacy they have left, in exchange for very very little.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoI believe people buy all sorts of gadgets just because they are things they don't already own, or they do already have one similar but then find a new one that has slightly better styling / matches their decor better / has a new feature, or someone they know has a better one so now they have to have the best too. And that is about as much thought that goes in to it.
- synicalx 9y agoSadly, that matches my experience as well. Everything is built with a lifecycle that is closely related to the release date of the next model.
- bradknowles 9y agoAmazon has a camera to unlock the front door to my house. Nope. Can’t ever see that going wrong.