21 ms·
The problem is, the alternative to dropped techs were better to some extent: - CD-ROM -> Bigger hard drives, faster internet connections. - Floppy -> CD-ROMs
by foxfired 9y ago
The problem is, the alternative to dropped techs were better to some extent:
- CD-ROM -> Bigger hard drives, faster internet connections.
- Floppy -> CD-ROMs And BIOS upgrade
- Flash -> Better browser security, and faster javascript
Now for headphone jack, we have bluetooth. Slow, unreliable, requires to charge an extra device, when you run out of earphone battery, you are done listening. If you use the USB/Lightning to AUX, you can't charge your phone at the same time.
If lose the earpiece, you pay premium to replace it.
Also: I can't watch a video with a half-second audio delay. Half a second is being generous.
- vtange 9y agoNot to mention for audiophiles there is the extra concern about sound quality loss.
- bb88 9y agoThe DAC on most consumer devices is not audiophile quality. Having had a mac book and a standalone USB DAC, there's really no comparison.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- koolba 9y agoAre you being serious or was that meant sarcastically? I genuinely can’t tell as your comment reminds me of hilarious HDMI cable reviews.
- themacguffinman 9y agoAre you going to say something of substance or just act like a douche?
- dang 9y agoPlease don't be uncivil on HN regardless of how bad someone else's comment was. It would be a good idea to read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make sure you follow them when posting here. Your previous comment broke them as well.
- btian 9y agoAn audiophile quality DAC costs 20x what you see in smartphones. You also need an amp for audiophile quality headphones. Do you know any audiophiles who use phones to listen to music?
- koolba 9y agoI don’t know any audiophiles period. Hence the lack of knowledge on the subject. I have a couple different sets of speakers and know that my larger ones sound better than the smaller ones (more “tinny” sound), but figured the core difference isn’t the quality of analog output on the source. Rather it’s the larger amplifier and larger size for bass generation.
- misframer 9y agoI have a 2015 rMBP and its audio sounds as good as through my CEntrance DACport Slim. Maybe my headphones aren't audiophile quality (Grado SR80i, Sony MDR-7506)?
- bb88 9y agoIt's possible. I haven't used the CEntrance DACport Slim, but it looks promising. After looking it up I would set the DAC to the high gain setting and drop the volume lower. And the Grado's look like a good set of headphones. I would try listening to The King's Singers, which is an A Capella voice group that sings classical music. I can pick out individual voices in space from recordings that were recorded in the late 1980's. A good DAC won't smear them in space, and you can "lock on" to a voice and hear the tonal quality of it individually as if they were standing in front of you.
- rorykoehler 9y agoFor Bluetooth the problem is different. While most people will probably not consciously notice the poor audio quality after long hours of listening they will experience fatigue. This is less likely with lossless audio.
- 21 9y agoThat has also been my experience. I bought an external audio interface to connect a condenser microphone and was shocked at how much better it sounded compared with the audio output at the back of my desktop (Realtek 24 bit...). I noticed that audio interfaces tend to have a lot of big condensers on the inside. The kind which don't fit in a laptop, and especially in a phone. Now I'm not an electronics expert to comment on this, but I would guess that the big condensers are not in there just for the fun of it. Note that I'm talking about professional audio interfaces (the kind used by music producers, in the $100-$400 range), not audiophile ones (kilo$, buzz words)
- bb88 9y agoI'm being completely serious. Typically a DAC has two components, the digital to analog part and an analog amplifier. So while the D2A won't typically be different, the audio amplification can vastly be different depending upon what you're trying to drive. Unfortunately you can't remove the audio amplification and replace it with another, unless you're willing to do surgery on your macbook, say. The best option is to buy a DAC with an amp that drives what you want it to. I have one that drives headphones that works like a charm, and I can hear not just the instruments clearer, but the location of the instruments recorded in stereo space better.
- flyinghamster 9y agoI lucked out when I decided to upgrade my main system to a Ryzen 7. Not really considering audio, I had decided on an Asrock X370 Taichi board mainly because it was known to work with ECC RAM (and it indeed does according to dmesg), and was quite pleasantly surprised when I plugged my headphones into it for a listen. It sounded every bit as good as what I get from a Focusrite Saffire on another system, and even better, the headphone amp has much more power, making it much better for live, uncompressed classical choral recordings than the Focusrite. I can play them at concert volume and not get clipping in the loudest passages. No complaints from me about the DAC or amplifier stage on this motherboard. On the other hand, I haven't tried any recording with it, and for stereo recording my first thought would still be to reach for the Focusrite or my portable recorder and mic preamp, since I'd need 48V phantom power anyway.
- com2kid 9y agoThe interior of most PCs (and phones) are very noisy from an RF standpoint. I get hiss on my USB headphones (!!!) from just out poorly shielded the case on my computer is. That said, Apple had traditionally put very well isolated low noise DACs in their products. I'm not sure if that is still the case.
- exikyut 9y agoAre you 100% sure it's not the USB DAC on your headphones? If you've inspected it, sure. If not, I would glare at it for a bit.
- matt4077 9y agoIsn't the story that they don't put any DACs in their products anymore? Or, more accurately, that the DACs have moved to the output devices (headphones, speakers).
- kabdib 9y agoI don't really have a problem with DACs on PCs, but the amount of noise present on most motherboards is terrible. (I can usually tell when my machine is compiling). A few years ago I bought some USB DACs and separate headphone amplifiers and it made a world of difference, even to my relatively ancient ears.
- mustacheemperor 9y agoAt least the iPhone's DACs are absolutely audiophile quality, especially because the idea that "an audiophile quality DAC costs 20x what you see in smartphones" is patently ridiculous. There's no evidence at all that any good as in not flawed DAC will sound the same on nearly any, if not any system. At the very least, the audio quality degradation of most bluetooth devices has a worse impact than even your average middle tier Android phone's dac.
- dpkonofa 9y agoI consider myself an "audiophile" and have spent way too much money on nice equipment. That being said, once I started hanging out with people that call themselves audiophiles and have way more money that I do, I realized that most of these people can't even tell the difference in the sound quality and, frankly, there is no loss. One of the meetups I went to even had a contest for anyone that could tell which DAC was being used and another for anyone that could tell a FLAC apart from a 320kbps MP3. No one won the prize money. "Audiophiles" are, for the most part, full of shit, in my opinion and just need to justify spending ridiculous amounts of money on great looking audio equipment. Mind you, I'm also probably full of shit because everyone tells me that I can get exactly the same computer for half the cost of what I paid for my MacBook Pro and I'm yet to find anything that comes close. At least with the Apple stuff, there are objective things I can point to that justify the more expensive costs. With audio equipment, there's a slow curve up and then it just drops off once you get past a certain point.
- batiudrami 9y agoI don't buy into a lot of audiophile nonsense (and personally I don't think I can tell the difference between a 192kbps MP3 and uncompressed), however there is a clear and obvious quality issue with some Bluetooth devices, in addition to how terrible the pairing experience is.
- taneq 9y agoThe Pareto principle is alive and thriving in the audiophile community. Anything beyond midrange is pure wank IMO (although I'll happily listen to 160kbps MP3 so you can probably disregard what I say. :P But this does seem to be borne out by a lot of double-blind testing, as you mention.) As for Apple products, you might get the same spec computer for half the cost but Apple has really nice build quality and integration (or at least did when I got my MacBook). It's the same spec but it's just nicer.
- andybak 9y ago> I'll happily listen to 160kbps MP3 so you can probably disregard what I say. I'm with you several hundred percent. Didn't a serious of fairly rigorous tests way back conclude that nobody could tell the difference between a ~160kbps VBR MP3 and an uncompressed source (as long as a good MP3 encoder was used)? I think it was the Hydrogen Audio people behind it. I think they decided ~192kbs was the point where there wasn't any statistically significant evidence that anyone could tell the difference. And that's in ideal listening conditions when people are being asked specifically to listen out for differences. I think the margin for realistic listening situations is probably much wider.
- MBCook 9y agoMy Aiepoda replaces a pair of $20 Sony over the ear headphones. They mostly sound better, the only difference being that the Sonys has bigger drivers and could do a better job on the low end. I never spend more than $60 on headphones (ignoring my noise cancelling Bose). Quality isn’t an issue. For something so small they sound quite good. For something so convenient they sound fantastic.
- cwilson 9y agoBluetooth is slow and unreliable unless you're using Airpods (due to the W1 chip), which I think is the more subtle move by Apple in this case. I was not a happy camper when I first read about Apple removing the headphone jack, but I won't lie, I'm an Airpod convert. They work flawlessly for me and I haven't traveled with or used normal headphones since I got them (other than a nicer pair of over-the-ears when I'm working on my desktop). I'm not saying this excuses the removal of the headphone jack, but from a business perspective it does add up.
- dpkonofa 9y agoI've said it multiple times now but I was exactly the same way. I was a little bit annoyed at the removal of the headphone jack but then ended up getting the iPhone 7 because I wanted the newer features. I didn't have wireless headphones, so I went all in and got the AirPods along with it and, holy hell, this is the closest that any technology has come to really feeling like magic to me. The pairing process was awesome, the range is great, the sound quality is great (after breaking them in hard for a week or two), and I literally forget that I'm wearing them sometimes to the point where it feels like the music is coming from inside my head. They're just so convenient and nice that I'm ok with doubting Apple initially but relieved that they proved me wrong. Forget the headphone jack. If this works the way these AirPods do going forward, I'm a convert.
- baby 9y ago> I literally forget that I'm wearing them sometimes to the point where it feels like the music is coming from inside my head. I see I'm not the only one :D I've also noticed other people and their wires hanging out more and more. I'm thinking wires are probably going to go out of fashion in the future and will look weird.
- unlmtd1 9y agoUntil energy prices go through the roof. Then wireless charging will give ppl that disgusted look of "What were those monsters thinking!?"
- Shivetya 9y agowith regards to charging while using the "charging port", with my 8+ I simply leave it on a wireless charger and it gains charge while making a call. I have a Plesson charger. I did move to air pods so I have that option as well, but the wireless charge ability and the fact they are cheap removed my concerns. plus with apple providing both adapter for old headphone to charge adapter as well as new head phones with that same connector I am in the camp of, don't matter anymore.
- timbo1642 9y agoApple computers come with SSDs only on the macbooks, so losing the DVD drive due to bigger hard drives isn't the case here because the hard drives are MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller now. I have tons of customers that face serious issues because they didn't know about this and they don't know much about computers. Flash might be garbage, but its still super important. Now lets talk about regular USB.... Apple dropped it without including a free adapter. They could have EASILY added one USB 3.0/3.1 port on the motherboard. There's plenty of space for it, but they would rather have you pay them tons of money for an adapter.
- cwilson 9y agoIn what way is Flash still important? I have had Flash disabled via a browser extension for what feels like years now.
- macintux 9y agoGood luck taking online training from any government agency. FEMA, e.g.
- nicky0 9y agoWhat kind of issues is the lack of DVD drive causing your customers?
- photojosh 9y agoNot to mention a USB DVD drive is $25.
- dpkonofa 9y agoYou can't be seriously suggesting that Apple did all the work to put only USB-C ports on the computer so that people would pay them "tons of money" for adapters. For starters, the adapters are cheap and can be purchased from any number of retailers that aren't Apple but, secondly, I have had to purchase 1 single adapter that has given me all the functionality of having these multiple ports and I've literally used it twice (once for the VGA out and once for USB). They didn't remove the old ports to get money out of people just like they didn't remove the headphone jack from the iPhone to get money from people. They did it because they feel that USB-C and wireless devices are the future and they're not wrong.
- jorgemf 9y agoHalf second delay? what Bluetooth are you using? I suggest you to buy something better, my 3 years old bluetooth headset doesn't have any noticeable delay. The other examples are not really good examples: - bigger drives and faster internet connections? I don't think most of the countries where Apple sells had those things at that time. But, hey, it is a premium product, so they expect you to pay premium for other stuff too (read their new bluetooth earplugs) - faster javascript and better browser? Chrome had those things, not safary, and it did had flash too.
- brandon272 9y agoI have Powerbeats wireless 2 headphones and have no perceptible delay. I wouldn't be able to tolerate a half second delay.
- philliphaydon 9y agoIf there was such thing as a 1 second delay then the tech would be dead by now. He’s just making things up.
- omilu 9y agoHe's not making things up. I experience massive delay with bluetooth headphones, and speakers. The delay is not one second, but it's enough to make it useless for watching video.
- jonknee 9y agoApple has mastered hiding any delay with AirPods and perfectly syncs things up. No small feat because it has to sync up both left and right in addition to what’s on the screen.
- jorgemf 9y agoWhat is the delay? For me it is imperceptible (it means it is below 50ms). I see here a lot of people talking about delays and how $2 wired earphones solve the problem. So I get people buy cheap and wants quality with their new iPhones. Cheap earphones with or without wire are always crap, the sound is horrible and the quality follows. It might be the reason of the delays: cheap stuff
- chrishacken 9y agoYou don't have to use bluetooth for audio. Every iPhone comes with an aux port adapter for a reason.
- colordrops 9y agoadapters are a hack, not a final solution.
- chrishacken 9y agoI'm not saying they are, but phone connectors.. aka "Aux ports" were designed in 1878, with the 3.5mm rendition dating back to the 1960's. It's obsolete tech. We can easily be making headphones with connectors that are a fraction the size. There's no reason USB-C and lightning ports shouldn't be multi-use. One port, many applications.
- LaikaF 9y agoSo I want to charge my phone and use headphones at the same time. That's a dongle. I want to use any piece of stereo equipment made since the 1960s. That's a dongle. Why don't we just ditch USB C too. Wireless charging and pairing via wifi/bluetooth.
- matwood 9y agoThe iPhone8 onward now has wireless charging. I see portless phones in the next 5 years tops.
- namelost 9y agoWe have gone from one standard interface, to now three interfaces (headphone jack, USB-C and lightning), and one of them is proprietary. We move from a world where you can buy any set of headphones, and use them with any device, to a world where... nothing is compatible with anything else. Either you use a permanently connected dongle, or you buy multiple sets of headphones. The future is stupid and I don't want to live in it.
- baby 9y agoI use the airpods and these are the future. I'm always wearing them and they are the least intrusing earbuds I ever wore. Now I always carry a wired one with me for two reasons: 1. The battery doesn't always last. the benefits are huge so I'm OK with it though. I don't think I'll ever go full airpods just because I'm always going to be in situations where I have no battery in these. 2. My Nintendo switch and some other devices don't have bluetooth :(
- NoodleIncident 9y agoI saw the other day that no other game consoles use bluetooth headsets. However a recent Switch update enabled USB audio, either through the dock or with an adapter on the port (although for handheld you might as well just use a wire).
- MBCook 9y agoNo matter how well you don’t Bluetooth has some latency, so until something improves I wouldn’t expect it to show up on game consoles.
- NovaS1X 9y agoI remember reading that the Bluetooth spec has about 300ms of latency. Far too much for games, which is why no current console uses Bluetooth for their headsets.
- selectodude 9y agoThe PS3 and PS4 use Bluetooth for their actual game controllers and the PS4 has audio out on the controller.
- tambourine_man 9y agoAll of those transitions where painful, it's just that we tend to look at the past with rose color glasses. Not that not having a headphone jack doesn't suck. It very much does
- MBCook 9y agoFor the few months before I got AirPods it was fine. I bought 2 or 3 of the little pigtails and it was largely a non-issue.
- taneq 9y agoIt does hark back quite strongly to when Apple removed the floppy drive from the original iMacs. And not having a floppy drive sucked at that point. Just because something's the way of the future doesn't mean the old option is instantly obsolete.
- Bud 9y agoThe headphone jack was emphatically NOT replaced by Bluetooth. It was replaced by a combination of Apple's W1-enhanced Bluetooth, which is not slow, not unreliable, etc., and also Lightning-based headphones. You're also wrong about charging the phone while using Lightning headphones; there are already adapters that can do that. Plus, it's not necessary to charge your phone all the time; that's what having better battery life is about. And better battery life is made more possible by freeing up precious internal space that the outmoded, single-use headphone jack used to occupy. If you can't watch a video without an audio delay, that means you're using really crappy headphones. Fix that. Don't blame Apple.
- Larrikin 9y agoWhat about those of us with nice headphones that don't want to be locked into the Apple eco system.
- serf 9y ago>The headphone jack was emphatically NOT replaced by Bluetooth. It was replaced by a combination of Apple's W1-enhanced Bluetooth, which is not slow, not unreliable, etc., and also Lightning-based headphones. Let's make a comparison. Is the alternative faster or more reliable than the original that it's replacing? No, not by any typical (audio) criterion.
- untog 9y ago> The headphone jack was emphatically NOT replaced by Bluetooth. It was replaced by a combination of Apple's W1-enhanced Bluetooth, which is not slow, not unreliable, etc., and also Lightning-based headphones. That cost $160. Let's not dance around that. Airpods are extraordinarily expensive compared to the headphones everyone used to be able to use.
- chrisweekly 9y agoBT headphones also have the massive downside of insufficient control over volume. Minimum volume is too loud == hearing loss. Strikes me as a market oppty for someone to develop BT headphones/earbuds that solve this.
- philliphaydon 9y agoOr just you kno. Plug headphones in using the adapter....
- ipqk 9y agoDropping the floppy also sucked. They were ubiquitous, and practically free. You could re-write them. Copying a file onto them was fast. Writing to a CD was slow. And cost about a buck. And didn't always work. So, yeah, there's pain with going to wireless headphones. But in 10 years, we're going to forget that.
- AdamJacobMuller 9y agoNot even 10 years, with AirPods I've already forgotten beside when I want noise cancellation/sound isolation (airplanes)
- maegget 9y agoBluetooth isn't always the only alternative option. I plug my iPhone into my car's USB port (via the standard USB-A to lightning cable) and it works really well. I also could have connected to my car via Bluetooth, or via the AUX input. The USB connection works best and also charges my phone.
- kayoone 9y agoModern Bluetooth is nowhere close to a half-second audio delay. I was concerned with this in the past, but with modern headphones and codecs it is not an issue anymore, there is virtually no delay. When they removed the CD-ROM Drive, a lot of people complained how they could possible do that, because apparently so many people used CDs a lot because in the real world internet connections often are not that fast etc. You will always get these kind of complaints but the majority will accept eventually and in a few years nobody cares anymore. I think it's better that way because modern bluetooth is really good (despite charging) and enables innovation in other areas.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- arthurfm 9y ago> If you use the USB/Lightning to AUX, you can't charge your phone at the same time. There's now a dongle that enables you to do both... https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/1/16393078/apple-belkin-rockstar-iphone-adapter-headphone-lightning https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/1/16393078/a...
- tw04 9y agoBluetooth 5.0 has none of the issues you've mentioned. Alternatively, you can run audio over usb-c if you want to continue using wired headphones. The selection is small at this point but will grow over time.