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'Environmental Nightmare' After Thousands of Atlantic Salmon Escape Fish Farm
- X86BSD 9y agoThis is appalling. As an avid fly fisherman, these farms are disgusting. You can see how sick these fish are at the local costco. They put the farm raised salmon fillets right next to the wild salmon fillets. They are pale pink compared to the vibrant rich red of the wild. These farmed salmon exist in this huge pen of netting, where they swim in their own filth and spread disease amongst each other and any wild salmon swimming through the filth that washes out from the netted pens. It hurts and damages the wild population as they spawn and swim through this sickness and get sick. I wish they were banned personally, but if humans are not smart enough to not buy this sick farm raised salmon then we deserve to have salmon wiped from the earth. It's such a shame.
- danjoc 9y ago>if humans are not smart enough to not buy this sick farm raised salmon then we deserve to have salmon wiped from the earth. Spoken like a true capitalist.
- nathancahill 9y agoThe free market provides. And the free market taketh away.
- mikeash 9y agoAccording to the internet (always reliable), the natural pink color of wild salmon comes from their diets. The most natural diet for farmed salmon would make them gray, and that wouldn't have anything to do with their health, just the fact that they'd be eating different things. But people won't buy gray salmon, so farms include a pigmenting agent to give them color.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- 1001101 9y agoYes, it's from the crustaceans in the natural diet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin for background on natural and synthetic forms of the pigmentation. I don't eat meat, but watching a documentary on sea lice in farmed salmon made me lose my appetite for everything. Getting a little queasy just thinking about it.
- mc32 9y agoSo kind of like flamingoes, then?
- 35bge57dtjku 9y agoHow do they remove parasites from sushi and poke fish?
- erikcw 9y agoSushi grade fish is frozen at a specific temperature for a specific time period to kill parasites.
- peterwwillis 9y agoAlso, there is no such thing as sushi grade.
- kobeya 9y agoIn the USA. Sashimi (sushi is the rice) is never frozen in any decent restaurant in Japan, so the question remains unanswered...
- pvaldes 9y agoIf you find this is because it was farmed fish and farmer fish can't have this type of inner parasites that cause trouble. Although is true than can have more load of external parasites in skin or gills they are super-clean inside normally. Much cleaner than wild fishes. I bet that most, if not all, decent restaurants in Japan ultra-freeze wild fishes on the other hand, even if they may not admit it.
- shoo 9y agofish farming salmon is interesting as it turns a large quantity of less desirable wild fish into a small quantity of more desirable salmon. i.e. if people just ate the inputs directly then there would be more food for less environmental impact.
- Taek 9y agoThis is how it works with cows too. And to a lesser extent, pigs. And to an even lesser extent, chicken. All meat by and large has a much worse impact on the environment per-calorie than vegetarian diets.
- chillwaves 9y agoWhat is this called.. trophic entropy? The laws of physics must be obeyed.
- hedora 9y agoMany (certainly not all) cattle are fed diets of plant material that is inedible for humans, and that was grown on land that is not suitable for other crops with minimal to no fertilizer usage and no irrigation. The cows themselves are raised on similar land. Such cows are raised in a much more sustainable / efficient manners than others, and the important tradeoffs are independent of whether they are "organic" or not. I've never seen product labeling that reflects this, and it makes me sad.
- robotbikes 9y agoFrom my understanding of the economics of the majority of US beef cattle, they are fed a diet composed largely of corn and soybeans, which grow on land that could otherwise produce varieties of the crop edible to humans. They are grown in CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operafion) lots and produce huge amounts of waste. This is in contrast to the more 'expensive' grass fed cattle that does indeed eat plant matter otherwise indigestible to humans. Our food system is designed to produce food in massive industrialized systems that trend heavily towards requiring massive inputs and producing massive waste outputs.
- jacquesm 9y agoThere is a fair chance that 'vibrant rich red' of that wild Salmon is actually the vibrant rich red of farmed Salmon fed food with carotens. I've never seen actual wild Salmon whose flesh you could describe as 'vibrant rich red', it would be more of a hue somewhere between orange and pink. But I have seen farmed Salmon with that over-bright and saturated color.
- X86BSD 9y agoI have never seen farmed salmon with any vibrant reddish color. They always look pale pink.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 9y agoMost of this is handwaving. The color of the fish has nothing to do with it's health; it comes from certain materials in the diet. Moreover, farmed salmon has lower prevalence of parasites: https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/d755kx/almost-every-kind-of-wild-fish-is-infected-with-worms https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/d755kx/almost-every-...
- devrandomguy 9y agoThe farmed salmon require constant medication to combat the parasites that thrive in dense populations of confined salmon. The wild salmon, however, do not benefit from the medication, but do pick up the parasites as they swim past open-net salmon farms. This is one of the many reasons why Pacific commercial fishermen are opposed to open net salmon farming specifically, rather than just to salmon farming in general; it is not just competition, it is literally destroying a species we depend on, and the ecosystems that depend on them in turn. Sorry about the lack of a citation, I found out about this while handling tons of infested salmon over several summers, not by reading a study. Last I heard, a study was commissioned by the DFO, but the results were kept private by the BC government; communications by government sponsored scientists were tightly regulated, beginning during premier Gordon Campbell's time in office.
- pcmaffey 9y agoOr you know, we could just catch and eat all the wild salmon instead. Farming is not the problem. Unsustainable farming is the problem. We can raise and kill and eat animals humanely (oh irony), just as we can grow food sustainably. The problem is that knowledge is not evenly distributed...
- devmunchies 9y agoThe planet can only support so much inefficiency. Humans are eating too much meat for our population. No animal farming is sustainable at this rate. If people filled up on more plant-based foods and had a little meat for flavor we would have much less of these kinds of problems.
- to_bpr 9y ago>these farms are disgusting Commercial fishing has absolutely devastated our oceans. Farmed fish have long been proposed as the "sustainable" solution. If commercial, open water fishing or fish farming isn't the solution to provide sustainable food, then what is?
- alphaalpha101 9y agoSustainable commercial open water fishing is completely acceptable to everyone, surely?
- devrandomguy 9y agoThe local Coast Salish natives have been successfully farming oysters and other shellfish in the tidal zone for thousands of years. This actually improves the nearby environment by filtering the water, and sequesters carbon in the CaCO3 seashells. We could probably scale this up safely, if the DFO is still capable of regulating anything effectively. We need to repair the DFO, the gutting of regulatory agencies is a root cause for many of these problems.
- robotbikes 9y agoSardines and other smaller fish are generally far more sustainable than the types of predator fish that humans have been pushed to prefer. There are also sustainable rates of fishing but our current economy doesn't work to incentivize this aside from the labels and NGOs approvals that go on certain seafood products.
- jeffwass 9y ago>Thy are pale pink compared to the vibrant rich red of the wild. Meat colour can be deceiving (at least for land-based mammals). Eg - Some American supermarkets treat meat with carbon monoxide to keep it bright red for days. http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/why-supermarket-meat-is-always-unnaturally-red/ http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/why-supermarket-meat-... Edit - apparently farmed salmon are given pigments mixed with their feed to make their flesh more pink : https://qz.com/358811/heres-why-your-farmed-salmon-has-color-added-to-it/ https://qz.com/358811/heres-why-your-farmed-salmon-has-color...
- mikeash 9y ago"Department officials blamed the structure failure on high tides caused by the eclipse...." That's certainly creative.
- colechristensen 9y agoIsn't that true though? The sun-moon-earth in a straight line when the moon is near perigee _would_ cause unusually high tides.
- mikeash 9y agoIt would, but the tidal effect of a perfectly aligned sun/moon would not be much different from the tidal effect of a mostly-aligned sun/moon. It's really just another spring tide, which happens about twice a month. Plus, the failure didn't even happen during the eclipse. It happened two days earlier, when the moon would have been 20-30 degrees away from the sun's position. That combination happens quite frequently. The article notes that tides weren't abnormally high, and had reached greater heights at some point in every month of 2017 so far.
- SamReidHughes 9y agoWell, it being a total (non-annular) eclipse does mean the moon is relatively close.
- mikeash 9y agoRight, but lunar perigee will approximately line up with the sun about twice a year, so that's not unusual either.
- blubb-fish 9y agoplus - even if the tide would be significantly higher during an eclipse - this is something that has to be planned nonetheless ... it's not the first eclipse and its effect as well as its timing can very well be calculated.
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- kwelstr 9y agoQuestion is, why are they farming atlantic salmon on the pacific coast?
- merraksh 9y agoIf $FISH is easier to farm or tastier or more valuable than $FISH2 and there are enough consumers in $CITY, I'd bet there will be a $FISH farm close enough to $CITY.
- cperciva 9y agoMy understanding is that Atlantic salmon has a milder flavour and is more popular.
- sogen 9y agosame thing as why most stuff is made in $cheapcountry
- kat 9y agoAtlantic salmon are larger than native species on the coast, so more business value. They also grow faster than than native salmon.
- foota 9y agoI think parent is asking why on the _coast_
- geezerjay 9y ago> Atlantic salmon are larger than native species on the coast, so more business value. They also grow faster than than native salmon. You've missed the point. Of course they do it because it makes business sense. That's the whole point of a business. What remains a mystery is why on earth would they be farming an invasive specie right in the ecosystem they are a threat.
- Majestic121 9y agoYou're answering your own question : they do it because it makes business sense and they probably won't be the one to pay for the damages (not personally at least)
- gallerdude 9y agoWow, it's like a vastly lamer and far less exciting Jurassic Park.
- chrischen 9y agoOr Chicken Run
- francisofascii 9y agolife, finds a way
- bamboozled 9y ago"The Atlantic salmon bring with them pollution, virus and parasite amplification, and all that harms Pacific salmon and our waters of Washington," Beardslee said." I honestly think that the Joe Blog's of the world have no idea how detrimental fish farming like this is to the environment, people in my family see it as a nice alternative to eating mammals. It's sad things like this have to happen to bring it to public attention. I hope in the future they teach children to find out where there food comes from and what impact it has on their environment before purchasing it. This stuff isn't cool.
- chillwaves 9y agoBamboozled is right.
- ciconia 9y ago> I hope in the future they teach children to find out where there food comes from Who's they? Isn't it our responsibility?
- prawn 9y agoUltimately yes, but many parents won't. Cover all bases by encouraging parents to do so, and educating children as well. There are a number of basic life skills that go untaught during school years - personal finance being one of them.
- mistermann 9y agoThe problem is, depending on who you talk to, there are thousands of things like this that a person "should" know. I wouldn't even know where to start or who to believe on even this one topic.
- prawn 9y agoYou could distill the original commenters suggestion to teaching children how to research and always find ways to learn a bit more about what they're told or what they're doing. That way it can be applied to food origins or newspaper articles or receiving financial advice.
- bbrian 9y agoRelated: Public urged to remain vigilant after Pacific salmon found in Irish rivers (August 14 2017) http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/public-urged-to-remain-vigilant-after-pacific-salmon-found-in-irish-rivers-36030119.html http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/public-ur...
- nikofeyn 9y agoi wonder how this will affect the already struggling pacific northwest resident orca population.
- pfarnsworth 9y agoThe worst thing about this is that this company will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. And their larger fish farm that they want will of course get approved, even though they can't handle a smaller one. It's incredibly offensive how little government officials actually care about the environment.
- scott_karana 9y agoOr, more likely, how powerless they are to do anything. Talk to a local Conservation Officer. You'll likely come away with newfound respect, but also pessimism. ;-)
- aeorgnoieang 9y agoI'm not being flippant; I'm genuinely curious. What's your ideal punishment? Death? Life imprisonment? Complete liquidation of the company? Fines or wage/income garnishment for executives and mangers and board members? Shouldn't at least some government officials also be punished? I'm miffed that they're not routinely punished for similar (or worse) lapses. And what exactly is it for which you wish they'd be punished? Potentially introducing an invasive species into the habitat of a protected species? Or failing to do more to prevent the actual introduction?
- pfarnsworth 9y agoCompanies that engage in environmentally-risky practices should be fined so heavily that they shouldn't attempt environmentally risky things unless they know they can do it properly. This creates a great advantage for well-run companies because it's basically a moat. Other companies that try it will fail dramatically because they'll get fined into oblivion. This, to me, includes chemical factories. Whenever they have a gas leak, or an chemical spill, the fines should be utterly draconian. Personally I think a CEO of a chemical company should live no more than 1 mile away from one of her factories, but that's the environmental fascist in me. Ineffective government officials should be fired with prejudice.
- mememaestro 9y agoIt's fish eats fish
- lucb1e 9y agoSomewhere in the middle is the interesting bit (to me at least: "why is releasing fish an issue?"): > Warren said his main concern is that Atlantic salmon could out-compete native Chinook salmon and steelhead for food and spawning grounds.
- dwyerm 9y agoWe need good science media to explain these things to the rest of us. For instance, where I'm from, a failed float switch allowed millions of gallons of treated drinking water overflow into the local streams. The EPA pitched a fit about a hazardous chemical release. It is really difficult to support and believe in the EPA's mission without an explanation why the same water you drink and spray on your lawn suddenly becomes a hazardous chemical.
- dzdt 9y agoReference please? My Bayesian estimate is that it is much more likely that you misunderstood badly or believed fake news than that the EPA was upset about a drinking water spill.
- somecontext 9y agoIt appears that 22 days ago user dwyerm posted about a recent flood at the West Point treatment plant in the Puget Sound area: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914743 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914743 The article mentions "millions of gallons of raw wastewater dumped into Puget Sound in 2000, 2006 and 2009" as well as "millions of gallons of wastewater began flooding the plant" [this time, in 2017]. I could find no source indicating that the flooded water was "treated drinking water", nor that the EPA pitched a fit.
- dwyerm 9y agoI can't find a reference, unfortunately. This was in the Arkansas River watershed, likely back in the 1990s, and so has likely not made it over the digital divide, yet. Consequently, we might only have my memory of the event to depend on. I will concede that it may have been local (Colorado) authorities, and not the US EPA. But my point still stands: Drinking water is surprisingly and counterintuitively an environmental hazard. It is easy to conclude that the local environmental agency is being irrational without good science media explaining. It is well-understood that chlorinated water causes fish kills: https://www.fws.gov/nc-es/edout/albefitfish1.html http://www.vita-d-chlor.com/specs/awwarfdechlorguides.htm http://www.fosc.org/AL-Chlorine.htm http://ntv.ca/chlorinated-water-killed-hundreds-of-fish-in-waterford-river/
- jlebrech 9y agowe should release fish small enough to fit through nets, so that they outbreed fishes we catch and the fishing industry goes bankrupt.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoAs bad as this is I hope some late night comedy show take it and runs with it. Lots of good xenophobia, immigration and west coast jokes could be made from this.
- mmphosis 9y agohttps://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/24/protect_salmon/ https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/24/protect_salmon/