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Solar Roof

• blakesterz 9y ago
  Yikes. I just signed a contract for a new roof here last month, it's going to cost about $12k. Just did the estimate for the Tesla Solar roof... $80,300, so $87k if I want the battery too. I can barely afford the $12 right now, the $80 is just so far over it's not even close, even with how much I save over the years in electricity. That being said, I love these things, so hoping it gets cheaper in the coming years.
  • SEJeff 9y ago
    12k for asphalt shingles, or slate / terracotta / etc? They're going to be targetting people who are looking for slate or terracotta aka more expensive than asphalt shingles like most of us have. Prices likely will come down with more volume. We can hope at least!
  • nixarn 9y ago
    Also typicallt the whole roof wouldn't have solarpanels. Only the side in the sun. And the dummy shingles will presumably be alot cheaper.
    • Jtsummers 9y ago
      ~$42 versus ~$11 per square foot (solar vs dummy tiles) per the Ars article. So depending on the amount of solar coverage you want, can get, need, you can manipulate the price a bit.
  • aasarava 9y ago
    You got a $12K quote for tile? How long is the warranty? Remember that the 80K quote includes solar, so you'd have to add a standard solar install of the same KW capacity to your initial quote to really compare apples to apples. You'll probably still pay a premium to go with Tesla, but the no-profile solar integration and lifetime warranty really look attractive. Some people are probably willing to pay for it, similar to people willing to pay a premium for the cars.
    • maxerickson 9y ago
      It's totally fair to just balk at the price. Someone that doesn't install solar can sell the home without worrying about recovering that cost.
    • heisenbit 9y ago
      Considering how long Tesla has been in existence and how financially leveraged Tesla is I would take discount warranty value (lifetime of house or infinity whatever comes first). Can't project finances much more than 10 years max. At the moment cost of capital is low but that may well change in that time-frame. Things have to make sense in a decade or so also considering that this new technology that is obsoleted by incremental innovation.
      • 65827 9y ago
        Yeah there's a pretty legitimate possibility of Tesla/SolarCity collapsing if their stock had a long bad run, don't think your warranty is worth much at the back of the line in bankruptcy court.
      • ProAm 9y ago
        It's definitely the lifetime of Tesla and not your house, roof, or owner.
    • Fezzik 9y ago
      It's not really a lifetime warranty though. If you click through to the Tesla purchasing page, there is (only) a 30 years Power Warranty and Weatherization Warranty... which in my mind renders calling it a lifetime warranty sort of silly, as the purpose of the shingles (power generation) is not covered by the lifetime portion of the warranty. 30 years still seems like a significant warranty for a product like this though.
      • vkou 9y ago
        The odds that Tesla will be around and willing to honor their warranty 25 years from now are also nowhere near 100%. Also, if you read the fine print, you will notice that the warranty will not cover the most frequent cause of roof problems - leaks in the seams. The same can be said for your local fly-by-night roofer, but it sounds like you can buy two roofs for the price of a SolarRoof. Also, another thing to be concerned about is whether or not you're going to be stuck in the middle of a pass-the-blame around football match between Tesla, and their subcontractors. (I guarantee you that the people installing your roof will not be Tesla employees.) In roofs, installation mistakes can cost you dearly - they are the primary cause of roof problems.
  • SamBam 9y ago
    Huh, I don't know much about roof costs, but which bar was incorrect in their price chart for you: the asphalt or the solar tiles? From their chart, the solar tiles (installed) should only be about twice as much as asphalt.
    • dangrossman 9y ago
      That's a very misleading chart. (1) The solar tiles aren't actually on the chart. If they were, they'd have to extend the scale more than twice as wide as what's shown, out to past $40 per square foot based on their calculator. (2) The bar that is on the chart is for their "non-solar" tiles, plain glass squares. That's the one that's twice as long as the bar for asphalt tiles. The solar glass tiles are actually more like 10x the cost of asphalt shingles, including installation.
  • erroneousfunk 9y ago
    Yeah, I balked at first, but it looks like mine (~1400 sqft 2 story house), would cost $30k, and there's a lifetime warranty on the roof. I might consider it in the long term future, but would definitely want to give it a few years and see how things pan out first. This is one of those things that I wouldn't want to be an early adopter for.
    • toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Did you take into account the 30% federal tax credit on that 30k? EDIT: That's sort of the kicker. A regular roof does not get a 30% federal tax credit (plus possible state incentives), nor does it produce power for 30+ years, nor does it have a lifetime warranty. If you can obtain low cost financing, you almost always come out ahead.
      • fictioncircle 9y ago
        > EDIT: That's sort of the kicker. A regular roof does not get a 30% federal tax credit (plus possible state incentives), nor does it produce power for 30+ years, nor does it have a lifetime warranty. If you can obtain low cost financing, you almost always come out ahead. Maximizing retirement savings is still likely more cost effective than this roof for most people and I doubt many people in the US are putting away $24k/year. The only way I'd see this is as viable is below inflation interest and people showing they can sell the houses for the full value of the Tesla roof.
        • deleted 9y ago
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      • mathgeek 9y ago
        > Did you take into account the 30% federal tax credit on that 30k? If I understand the tax credit correctly, it's only available if you're paying that much in taxes otherwise. For a $60k roof, you have to already be paying $18k in taxes to take full advantage of the credit. That's an important detail for some.
  • hourislate 9y ago
    I am not sure there are a lot of folks who will spend 70k on a roof. Even if it reduces or eliminates their electricity costs. For this to succeed it is going to have to cost the home owner at least what a shingled roof would cost with the additional cost of the power-wall and the infrastructure that is required to to set that up. I can understand paying a slight premium but 70k? You would be better off using a high performance insulation like spray foam, 3 pane windows, and even installing a Geo Thermal System (around 20-25k) instead of this solar roof.
    • deleted 9y ago
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  • timtadh 9y ago
    Where I live $80k is a significant portion of the cost of most houses. The price will be a significant barrier to entry for houses outside of hot real estate markets.
    • sndean 9y ago
      Yeah, my brother just bought a pretty large house for $100k, but I guess people in rural North Carolina aren't the target buyer of solar roofs anyway. I wonder on what price home would a $80k roof make sense? >$800k?
      • fictioncircle 9y ago
        That sounds about right to me. A roof that exceeds 10% of the purchase price is likely to push the house outside of the price range of buyers in the target market. I know a friend of mine (who has a solar system, not quite the same) but basically got almost nothing for it. The aesthetics of a "Solar Roof" is better but I don't see it raising the value of the house by more than 10%. I used their calculator using the estimates when I had my roof done last time, and it is just not economically feasible. $60k roof vs. $6k roof. Net of $12k savings over 30 years. $60k over 30 years (adjusting for inflation in conservative investments) is easily going to hit $180k.
      • pfarnsworth 9y ago
        I have a $2M house, and I've been bitching and moaning for a year that a new roof cost us $20k.
    • jrnichols 9y ago
      I dunno, I'm in the Dallas/Ft Worth area, and we have abundant sunshine and I think the price is still going to be a barrier. But like others have said... there are plenty with a lot more money than I have which will jump at this. I'm ok with that. The more wealthy folks that install these and take their load off the grid, the better.
  • goshx 9y ago
    While doing the calculations I read "Cost of Powerball ticket" instead of "Cost of Powerwall battery"... laughed loud as it would be useful to help pay it off.
  • atourgates 9y ago
    I don't really see the selling point, or value here. Tesla's calculator estimates $40,500 for a roof that generates half our power needs, and should provide $20,400 worth of energy over 30-years. Add in a PowerWall and federal tax credit, and I'm still losing $15,400 over 30-years. If I put that same $40,000 in an index fund that got the stock market's historical 7% average, and waited 30 years, I'd have $308,000. To put it in another perspective, the last estimates I got for a solar system that covered 100% of our average power needs came in at $32,000 installed, before the same $11K tax credit that Tesla includes in their calculations. So, I could pay under $20,000 for a "traditional" solar system that covered 100% of our energy bills, or $40,000 for a Tesla solar roof that covered 50% of our energy bills. That's quite literally half the value, at twice the price. If I put in a traditional solar system tomorrow, it would pay for itself in year 9. If I put in a Tesla solar roof tomorrow, I'd still be out $15K at year 30.
    • tzs 9y ago
      > Tesla's calculator estimates $40,500 for a roof that generates half our power needs, and should provide $20,400 worth of energy over 30-years. This depends quite strongly on where you are. Your numbers are very close to the ones I get if I use my correct address, which is in the Puget Sound area of Washington State. If I keep everything the same except the address, changing that to one in Merced, California, then it says I'd get $75000 worth of energy over 30 years. PS: it looks like they try to use the address for more than just finding the location in order to estimate how much sun is available. I tried an address that I had lived at in Pasadena, California, and it did not ask me for the house size and number of floors. Instead, it did the calculation using about 6000 sq ft, which is about the size of the apartment building that is at that address. For my Seattle-area and Merced addresses, it did ask me for the house information.
      • pyoung 9y ago
        They are using Google's Project Sunroof[1] to do the modeling. The tool uses satellite images of your roof to create the estimates, and accounts for orientation, shading from trees, etc... [1] https://www.google.com/get/sunroof https://www.google.com/get/sunroof
  • ricardobeat 9y ago
    How on earth did you hit 80k? Using the calculator, the roof for a two-story 3000sqft home comes down to $50-60k, with a net gain of $5k. If your house is any larger than that, $80k is pocket change.
    • majormajor 9y ago
      > Using the calculator, the roof for a two-story 3000sqft home comes down to $50-60k, with a net gain of $5k. If your house is any larger than that $80k is pocket change. That's hardly pocket change in most of the country, where you can get a lot more sqft/$ (and potentially in a bigger, 1-story footprint) than on the west coast.
    • sbov 9y ago
      > two-story Not everyone has a two story house. My parents live in a single story 2k square foot home and tesla estimates the cost to be $69k. I live in a 2 story house with more groundfloor space than 2nd story, and it estimates the cost at $60k
    • mathgeek 9y ago
      I own a two-story, 3000 sq.ft. house, budgeted to the usual percentage of total income. I assure you that $80k is not pocket change (because I didn't pay the down payment with pocket change, and even that wasn't $80k).
  • phonon 9y ago
    Doesn't the Tesla roof last substantially longer? Like maybe 2-3 times as long as asphalt ?
    • waynecochran 9y ago
      From the description: Solar Roof is the most durable roof available and the glass itself will come with a warranty for the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first.
      • InitialLastName 9y ago
        > Solar Roof is the most durable roof available and the glass itself will come with a warranty for the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first.... ... Or 30 years. You know, whichever comes first.
  • greglindahl 9y ago
    This new roof has always been pitched as a product competing with new premium roofs. It doesn't sound like that's the kind of roof you're buying. Every thread about Tesla cars has a subthread about how irrelevant they are because they cost too much for some car buyers. Now we can look forward to every thread about Tesla roofs having a subthread about the initial product not being price-competitive for low-end roof buyers.
  • Retric 9y ago
    It depends on your roof orientation and your location so ROI has a huge range. For example if you don't have a southern facing roof then this is going to be a terrible investment. However, this is also a home improvement which means a low interest loan which has many tax advantages, remember you pay your electric bill with after tax money but you pay interest on a home loan with pre tax money. Further electricity costs increase with inflation, so your out of pocket investment may be tiny while the value of electricity generated is increasing.
    • ZeroGravitas 9y ago
      South facing roofs aren't essential to solar. East-West layouts can spread the energy production out through the day and work out better overall depending on various factors such as how much you make from selling excess to the grid.
      • Retric 9y ago
        These are tiles that sit flush with your roof, east west roofs act like zero tilt panels which provide less power everywhere in the US and thus lower efficiency. Granted if it's cheap enough that's not a deal breaker, but it's always going to impact ROI.
  • dbecker 9y ago
    The $80k roof is especially scary if you live in an area with any type of natural disaster risk. The area I live in just had a huge hail storm. Most roofs in our neighborhood will require repairs. That's a bummer with asphalt shingles, but it would be a lot worse with an $80k roof. Most people won't think about those risks, but over the time period you need to consider for a roof, it's a big risk in most places.
    • j2bax 9y ago
      Tesla claims their shingles are a lot more resilient than standard roofing material...
      • vacri 9y ago
        They say the glass is warrantied for the lifetime of the house, but it will be interesting to see what exclusions are in that warranty.
        • prewett 9y ago
          According to the ordering website where it says "30 years", I'd say the exclusion of t > 30 is rather extensive...
    • tren 9y ago
      Elon posted a huge hail cannonball hitting a roof tile: https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7HVS3AZ4q/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7HVS3AZ4q/. It looks pretty resilient.
  • reboog711 9y ago
    There is a button on the calculator to change your settings. It sized my roof at more than 2x the square footage of my house. It also estimated my monthly electric bill at 4x what I pay on a monthly basis. Changing those numbers put them to something closer to a new roof; and is definitely competitive with putting on a new roof and then paying for a solar panel installation.
  • ed_balls 9y ago
    Take into account the fact that Model 3 + battery pack + roof will cost 80k-100k in 10 years. In France electricity cost almost double and fuel is 50% more expensive.
  • awkwardtortoise 9y ago
    It's all flash and no substance. Elon Musk is a great salesman and marketer. I'll give him that. But just like their cars, this roof is for the wealthy people who want to look cool and earn some liberal points. It makes no financial sense for the vast majority of people. > That being said, I love these things, so hoping it gets cheaper in the coming years. Yep. Perhaps in the future.
    • knz 9y ago
      > But just like their cars, this roof is for the wealthy people who want to look cool and earn some liberal points. What does political affiliation have to do with this? People being excited about new and innovative technologies like electric cars, space travel, and solar roofs is great news for people reading a site like Hacker News - I don't think it would be out of line to suggest most new technology is marketed towards those with the disposable income to purchase it. There is no need to make this into a "stupid liberals just trying to score points" issue.
      • awkwardtortoise 9y ago
        > What does political affiliation have to do with this? Well liberals love to pretend they are environmentally "conscious" while conservatives are "drill baby drill"? Right? Maybe I should have written fake california liberals. > People being excited about new and innovative technologies like electric cars, space travel, and solar roofs is great news for people reading a site like Hacker News I love innovative stuff. Solar roof isn't innovative. > There is no need to make this into a "stupid liberals just trying to score points" issue. I wasn't trying to score points. I was just being honest and offering my opinion. I'm fairly liberal myself...
• dustinmoorenet 9y ago
  With Space X internet on the horizon, I need to start designing my house in the country, preferably with a small roof.
  • s3graham 9y ago
    Why a small roof?
    • krallja 9y ago
      Fewer shingles => lower cost.
      • thatwebdude 9y ago
        Fewer shingles => less solar power being generated by the solar roof you bought to generate enough power.
• DLarsen 9y ago
  "...the glass itself will come with a warranty for the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first." Cute.
• SirLJ 9y ago
  Way to expensive, as always, too much hype and then nothing...
• SirLJ 9y ago
  Tesla acquired SolarCity in November in a deal worth $2.1 billion. At the event, Musk said Tesla's roof would price competitively with normal roofs and could even cost less. "It's looking quite promising that a solar roof will actually cost less than a normal roof before you even take the value of electricity into account," Musk said at the event. "So the basic proposition would be: Would you like a roof that looks better than a normal roof, lasts twice as long, costs less, and, by the way, generates electricity? It's like, why would you get anything else?"
  • azeirah 9y ago
    I'm 21, thus I have no idea what roofs normally cost. I assume they're very very heavily below ~80k? For a "regular" house, what would a roof cost? 4k? 10k? 500?
    • flareback 9y ago
      We just got an estimate for our house (~2400 sq ft single story home) and the estimates were from 10k - 13k.
      • nightbrawler 9y ago
        Add in the various types of metal roofs and the price can double for a similar sized house.
    • geekagirl 9y ago
      I had my (very boxy and boring) 1800 sq ft house reroofed with 30 year asphalt shingles for ~$7k, including tearing off both previous layers of shingles. I looked at getting a metal roof, and standing seam was going to cost about $16k. Edited to add: The cost of living is cheap where I am.
      • stupidhn 9y ago
        >I looked at getting a metal roof, and standing seam was going to cost about $16k. Same. There seems to be a subset of HackerNews who thinks that most homeowners can pay $50k for a roof and $35k for a car. It's cool high-end stuff, but certainly is not mainstream.
• mrfusion 9y ago
  how these shingles connect to each other? And how are they affixed to the roof? You can't just nail them right?
  • euyyn 9y ago
    That's what baffles me about this whole thing. Unless your roof is rectangular with homogeneous shadows, if you connect the shingles, say, in rows, you'll have unbalanced voltages. Is the plan to have a microinverter per row of shingles?
    • sliken 9y ago
      There's two types of tiles. I suspect they just use the same number or row and then fill in any gaps with the non-solar tiles.
      • euyyn 9y ago
        That makes sense. It also lets you avoid areas with shadows, by using the non-solar ones there.
• dharma1 9y ago
  UK availability?
  • twothamendment 9y ago
    Does the sun shine in the UK? Cheer up, one day it will...
    • vidarh 9y ago
      Not much, but enough that I see plenty of solar installations on nearby roofs, and the financial incentives here are fairly good. I checked a "standard" provider that provides regular or integrated panels [1] and their estimate for my house is a tax free return on investment of 4.2% to 5.5% (integrated or regular panels respectively) when factoring in feed in tariff and maintenance. [1] http://www.solarcentury.com/uk/ http://www.solarcentury.com/uk/
• accountyaccount 9y ago
  Looks like these roofs take about 30 years to pay for themselves?
• nsxwolf 9y ago
  Oh wow. So that's disappointing. I was under the impression it was about the same cost as a new roof. I guess its starting at that cost, if you want just a tiny little bit of electricity.
  • loco5niner 9y ago
    To be fair, that is a pretty unlikely assumption. edit - just found out Musk pretty much said that. Still....
    • nsxwolf 9y ago
      Yes, I was hoping he would come through when he said: “Would you like a roof that looks better than a normal roof, lasts twice as long, costs less, and, by the way, generates electricity? It's like, why would you get anything else?” I guess technically "generates electricity" is the part I got hung up on, it only needs to generate 1 milliwatt hour to be true. But much of the statement still isn't true - it's more expensive than a regular roof.
      • gwern 9y ago
        The logic here might be that payback in the form of $1 of generated electricity is better than a regular $1 payback via, say, tax credit, because it comes with additional benefits like reduced carbon emissions (not priced into utility bills) or more reliability / having electricity during blackouts.
  • ericd 9y ago
    To be fair, even their non-solar tempered glass tiles seem like a better option than slate/tile due to the durability. I'd consider even just that over asphalt, due to the longevity.
  • jaggederest 9y ago
    It's a similar price to the high end existing roofing materials that you might find. Certainly it's not going to be price compatible with asphalt shingles, but terra cotta or slate is often 2-4x as expensive as those, and lasts much longer.
• deleted 9y ago
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• mrtron 9y ago
  Not sure why all the negative energy. They are going after the portion of the market that would replace their roof with a high end material, and are interested in solar. If you are a home owner in this situation, you could consider investing into your home. The roof will pay dividends over the next 30 years, and is attractive and durable. I think it will do extremely well. Perhaps the best opportunity is in new construction. Imagine having 50k more baked into your mortgage, but having your roof lower your ongoing energy costs! Great potential in that market, could also optimize the roof designs for power generation.
  • solotronics 9y ago
    yeah there is little economic incentive for anyone outside of California will to retrofit these onto an existing house. Take Texas for example a large house in Dallas is $500k I used the provided calculator on the Tesla site and the roof install will cost $211k! that is not justifiable on a house this expensive.
    • ericd 9y ago
      Is that to replace 100% of the energy usage with solar? It lets you dial back the electricity generation and with it, the cost.
    • goobynight 9y ago
      Right. Outside of dense, expensive cities, the %of house value goes up since houses cost less AND the roof sizes also go up.
  • nvr219 9y ago
    > negative energy :-D
• jorblumesea 9y ago
  While it's far better than other competitors, my asphalt roof was 7k, 30 year warranty rated to 120mph winds. Still a long way to go on the pricing part. Super happy this is even a thing, 10 years ago this would have seemed like science fiction.
• fpgaminer 9y ago
  I'm so absolutely excited for solar power. Tesla's Solar Roof, their PowerWall batteries, electric cars. It's all just painting such a bright future. Certainly Tesla has no monopoly on it, but they've made it sexy and are pushing the bleeding edge forward. Props to them. We recently signed a contract to do an installation on our house (with a local contractor, not SolarCity). It can't happen soon enough! We'll have enough panels and batteries to be 100% off-grid throughout the entire year, plus get a good chunk of change back from the Net Metering every year. Pay off is only 8 years! That installation is enough to cover our normal electric usage. Longer term I want to replace our gas appliances with electric and replace the car with a Tesla. Then we can double our solar installation to keep pace and BAM we will be 100% clean energy and off-grid. All while saving a bucket of money. The thought of running off grid in the middle of a Southern California suburb? People might think me crazy, but guess what? At least we're doing our small part to save the planet, and saving money doing it. So who's the crazy one?
  • mavhc 9y ago
    Going off grid means you need a lot more batteries, which need materials and energy to make. Switching from gas to electricity for heating is a bad idea if there's still coal power stations in use, if you're not selling your excess power to the grid, they're going to turn on that coal power plant again. Sharing power is a much better idea than trying to store it in batteries, unless those batteries are in a car
    • fpgaminer 9y ago
      > Switching from gas to electricity for heating is a bad idea if there's still coal power stations in use You misunderstand. Our solar installation will be expanded to cover the appliances. We'll be 100% off-grid. > Going off grid means you need a lot more batteries We only need 3 PowerWalls to cover all our needs (~1 for our needs now, 3 for when we have electric appliances and a car). That's not "a lot more". > Sharing power is a much better idea than trying to store it in batteries, unless those batteries are in a car Huh? Why would sharing power be a better idea? Solar panels generate the majority of their power in ~4 hour window. Energy storage is _mandatory_.
• abc_lisper 9y ago
  Where is the finance option?
  • tropo 9y ago
    It's at your bank, same as always. It's called a home equity loan, or, for new houses, a construction loan. Tesla intends to provide this too. Don't expect a good rate if you feel a need to have Tesla finance the roof. Banks at least have other banks to compete with.
• amelius 9y ago
  Why don't banks (or even Tesla for that matter) finance such roofs upfront? It seems they can make money out of this.
  • vkou 9y ago
    Low repo value, unless you put your house up for collateral.
• ctdonath 9y ago
  People keep overlooking the objective value of not relying on "grid" power sources. Power goes off, your system keeps going. Gasoline supply stops (I've seen that a few times), you can just power your car at home. Your system fails, grid is likely still up to cover. Supply-and-demand takes a sharp turn when supply is actually limited and can/does run out. At that point, having pre-paid for your own uninterrupted off-grid supply is worth a whole lot more.
  • rhino369 9y ago
    I think people overvalue the value of being off the grid. The average person isn't doing anything that critical at home, so they can just deal with it. Diesel generators work for people with critical use cases. Katrina is the only time in my lifetime where a major city / region was without power and without gas deliveries for a long time.
    • ghaff 9y ago
      Where I live (Northeast), pretty much the only time where an extended power outage is a serious problem is in the winter. And that's because of losing heat. A Powerwall-like "UPS" that could handle some critical systems (basically my furnace) automatically is interesting. But any solar panels are likely to be under snow and ice. Pretty much the only thing that's really a problem for me in a power outage is losing heat because the furnace loses power and therefore potentially having pipes freeze.
      • rhino369 9y ago
        How much heat would a powerwall even create? I suspect electric heat would drain those suckers pretty fast. Why doesn't the north east have gas heating?
        • 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
          Gas furnaces typically power their blowers with electricity; the gas is strictly for heat.
• IvanK_net 9y ago
  I have always been a huge fan of a quick transition to sustainable energy sources. There is just one little thing I don't understand. Why they expect people to make electricity at their homes? You can buy a little piece of land in a dessert, put solar panels there and distribute the electricity to other places. And you don't have to climb on any roof during the installation or the maintenance. It is not profitable today in a free market to bake your own bread or to plant your own vegetables. Because if it is done in a large scale by professionals, it can be made much cheaper while keeping the good quality. So I don't understand, how the home-made electricity could economically compete with the professional energy farms of the future.
  • foota 9y ago
    My guess would be this: there are large transmission costs associated with utility scale solar, perhaps home generation can be competitive when including those.
  • DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    Many states have generous subsidies that only apply to residential/domestic energy production that don't apply to utility/commercial production, specifically there are credits and rebates for the construction cost, and the feed-in tariff system - these really shift the economics completely. I live in western WA and I had a view to get a solar installation a couple of years ago, because despite our climate and sunshine conditions - and already having the greenest (hydroelectric and wind, mostly) and cheapest electricity in the country ($0.11/kWh) - there was a generous feed-in tariff - which meant my planned $40,000 investment in a solar system would pay itself off after 10-15 years, however in late 2015 the state decided to put an end to that and if I had the system built now it would take 25+ years to pay for itself, at which point the system's warranty would be expiring and I'd need to shell out more money to replace it.
  • jandrese 9y ago
    You build a solar farm out in the desert it is up to you to maintain it and the supporting infrastructure (transmission lines). Put a solar roof on a home and it is the homeowner's responsibility to maintain it.
• palakchokshi 9y ago
  2 self driving Teslas in the garage (making money when not used) $150,000 1 power wall battery pack $7,000 1 Solar Roof $80,000 Subtract $15,000 in Federal tax credits for both cars $5,000 in California tax credits for both cars 30% of 80,000 = $24,000 Solar Investment tax credit $237,000 - $44,000 Grand Total $193,000 Calculate savings $240 per month in gas $100-$300 per month in electricity $1000 - $2000 earned by the cars while not used by owner (10 years into the future) $1340 to $2540 per month $193,000/1340 = 144 months = 12 years to recover costs $193,000/2540 = 76 months = 6.33 years to recover costs Take away the income from the cars $193,000/540 = 357 months = 30 years to recover costs If PGE gives you money for putting excess electricity into the grid then you can recover costs faster.
  • jdashg 9y ago
    CA tax credits are gone for those making over 150k.
    • palakchokshi 9y ago
      ...for single filers and $300,000 for joint filers
  • flareback 9y ago
    How do the cars make money when in the garage?
    • eridius 9y ago
      Tesla will be operating a car sharing network comprised of self-driving cars. From the master plan (https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux): > You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not.
• myroon5 9y ago
  I'm surprised they didn't team up more with Google's Project Sunroof or Zillow or create their own version of those projects, so that you could just put in your home address and get all the relevant details. Had to check Zillow to find out my own square footage.
  • mechathor 9y ago
    They do use Google Sunroof -- your home may not fall under supported areas.
    • myroon5 9y ago
      Looks like you're correct. Supported area for Google Sunroof stops just a couple blocks away from my house.
• Matt3o12_ 9y ago
  Does anyone understand how the warranty works? From their solar panel page[0], it says that there is a 30 year warranty for Power and Weatherization and a lifetime warranty. So, what does the lifetime cover? The only thing that can go wrong is that either the power module fails or the tile is damaged due to weather, which is both covered by the 30 year warranty. Nevertheless, a 30 year warranty is still pretty impressive and even more so if it covers normal wear and tear from weather. [0]: https://www.tesla.com/solarroof?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/solarroof?redirect=no
  • greglindahl 9y ago
    The tiles are proof against weather: if you saw the reveal video they dropped a heavy object on a tile without damaging it. Given that, offering a warranty against weather damage is basically free to Tesla, modulo manufacturing defects.
    • vkou 9y ago
      And unless you live in a forest, or in tornado alley, having an anti-weather warranty for your roof is worthless. Most roof problems are caused by mistakes in installation, not because the tiles don't last as long as they are expected to.
  • timdellinger 9y ago
    A 30 year power warranty is mighty brave seeing as how they've got essentially 0 years of data to base their projections on.
  • awkwardtortoise 9y ago
    > Nevertheless, a 30 year warranty is still pretty impressive and even more so if it covers normal wear and tear from weather. If Tesla is around in 30 years. Remember that Tesla was going to go bankrupt 9 years ago before government bailout. And warranties can become worthless when companies go bankrupt.
    • Matt3o12_ 9y ago
• SwellJoe 9y ago
  I'm super excited about all of the great stuff happening in solar recently, but whenever I read about the economics of home solar, I'm also always reminded of how stacked the deck is for wealthy people vs. poor folks. There's a very large federal tax credit for solar investment. That's great...but, people who can't afford their own home get no such credit, and there's no way for them to get such a credit. That's a super common trait for lot of incentives; they go to people who need them least. And, the people who are getting these incentives, are also using a lot more power (bigger houses, more power), and so even with solar, their huge houses may still be contributing more to emissions than the poor folks who aren't getting any tax breaks living in apartments or rental properties. I don't really have any answers on this, I just think it doesn't get talked about enough.
  • drozycki 9y ago
    Maybe it would help to think of the credit as benefiting the solar industry more than wealthy people. It's a long road for new tech to reach economies of scale. If society has an interest in reaching that inflection point than the subsidy could be money well spent. Poor people will benefit when the price of the roof falls further; it may never have reached that point without early subsidy. Perhaps it would be more equitable if Tesla received the subsidy directly. But that places the government in the business of choosing winners without the market signals of who would actually succeed if given the subsidy. Politically that's such a minefield. And no one ever lost votes for promoting a tax cut.
    • SwellJoe 9y ago
      How about a tax credit for lower power consumption, instead of subsidizing any one path for achieving it?
  • mundo 9y ago
    This is tautological; the reason poor people don't get a lot of tax breaks is because they don't pay a lot of taxes. The government does spend a lot of money helping poor people, but not via tax credits.
• brianbreslin 9y ago
  Any idea on whether or not this would improve your home's resale value? Also it won't let you go a full 100% (max 70%) of your roof coverage. Do they fill the rest with regular tiles? The average person would have to finance this. So what's the true cost?
  • gervase 9y ago
    In many (most?) areas, solar systems are considered "overimprovements" from the perspective of appraisals. This generally means that any increase in home value (increasing appeal to the buyer directly) won't translate to a higher loan amount from the bank (which will only loan out the on-paper valuation), restricting the ability of the buyer to actually pay the higher price they would otherwise be willing to pay. This could change as solar systems proliferate, making them almost a "standard" feature of most houses. It also wouldn't affect sales to cash-paying investors, which in some markets are the main buyers, since they don't need to qualify for loans anyway (and therefore can ignore appraisals). Either way, I wouldn't bet on it increasing the home's value more than ~40% of the cost, if that.
• quizme2000 9y ago
  I think Elon got ripped off on his last shingle roof. The bar chart is nice but off by at least 150%. I've had many roofing subcontractors as clients past and present in Northern California. Based on an average of 870 roofs in 2016 for Single Family Residential homes in the bay area, Asphalt shingle roofs are $3.12 per square foot for materials and labor. The highest was $5.75 psf and the lowest $2.35 psf. Note that the SF bay area is considered one of the most expensive in roofing market. Also note that Solar City has a poor reputation in the industry for hard selling larger than needed residential solar systems.
  • greglindahl 9y ago
    The roof launch event was very clear that this is a product that competes against premium roofs. Asphalt shingle roofs aren't premium roofs. As an example, for high-end housing developments, many of them do not allow asphalt shingle roofs. If that's not your thing, great. Then this isn't the product for you.
    • Thrymr 9y ago
      The article specifically cites a source talking about asphalt shingle roofs: "The price was calculated for a roof where 35 percent of the tiles are solar (solar tiles cost more per square foot than non-solar tiles), in order to generate $53,500 worth of electricity, which according to Consumer Reports would make a solar roof more affordable than an asphalt shingle roof."
    • thatwebdude 9y ago
      Yet they'll allow those shitty* cedar roofs that look like crap in 20 years... *Shitty in how they look, not how they perform. I can drive through a 600k+ neighborhood (5x-6x higher than the average house in my metro) and see this terrible looking shingle. I honestly feel bad for Mr. Jones who can't afford a new cedar (or fake cedar) roof because the option of a nice asphalt isn't allowed in his HOA. https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/stain-cedar-shingles_40d46b1a4cab0703.jpg?domain=cx.aos.ask.com https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/s...
• canterburry 9y ago
  Yeah, I feel the coverage of this has been very deceptive. We just got a quote for our roof in SF (small house) and it was ~$20K with an upgraded architectural tile, new spouts and gutters. Tesla would charge me $67K for the roof alone based on roof size and our energy use. 1. "Unlimited warranty" doesn't actually mean unlimited warranty when your roof starts leaking...just that the tile won't break. 2. Why the heck should I pre-pay Tesla for unrealized savings to my future energy use??
• Arcsech 9y ago
  I'm curious about the durability - I live Colorado Springs, which is typically very sunny (good for solar), but can get pretty bad hailstorms. This means that the average roof lifetime here is much shorter than elsewhere. If the Tesla's roof tiles are actually significantly more durable than asphalt, it could be more cost-effective here than elsewhere.
  • timdellinger 9y ago
    Also: repairability. Asphalt shingles are fairly easy to repair once you get up on the roof. Wired stiff solar shingles? That's gonna be more challenging.
  • scotch_drinker 9y ago
    On the solar calculator page, they say they have the highest possible hail rating.
  • netinstructions 9y ago
    This is something they're specifically trying to address. Elon posted some high speed footage of a "hail gun" shooting the Tesla tiles. https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7Gxsag27j/?taken-by=elonmusk&hl=en https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7Gxsag27j/?taken-by=elonmusk&h... Sounds like a fun job to build and operate a "hail gun"
  • esterly 9y ago
    Tesla posted this hail test video https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/status/862394764460605440 https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/status/862394764460605440
• qaq 9y ago
  To all upset about pricing there are products targeting different income brackets. People in blah also can't understand how we spend half of their monthly income on some organic blah drink. Just because it does not make sense for your particular situation does not mean there is no market.
• 11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
  In modeling whether this makes sense, I looked at my annual electricity bill, which comes in at about $1,800/year. That's not enough savings opportunity to justify a ~$70,000 roof+batteries. However, when I add 2 electric cars, the savings nearly triple [0]. Instead of buying gasoline, I'll be paying for electricity. At $5,400/year, spending $70,000 starts to make some sense. On the other hand, if I put up ugly panels and still use the Tesla batteries, aren't I going to save a lot more? [0] 24,000 miles/year, 225 miles @ $10 per charge, vs. 25 mpg @$3/gal EDIT: Corrected KWh charge... $10 is cost for one charge.
  • ch4ch4 9y ago
    In your calculation, $10/kWh is a bit high... the national average is $0.12/kWh
    • 11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
      Corrected (thanks for being kind...)
  • deegles 9y ago
    What's your goal though? If it's just to save money then it makes more sense to drive a beater gasoline car. If the goal is to help the environment, it's probably still better to buy a beater gas car and buy carbon credits with the difference. Also there are tons of other things you can do like downsizing, eating less meat, biking to work, etc.
    • RodericDay 9y ago
      Tesla's entire offering is trickle-down environmentalism.
  • thatwebdude 9y ago
    Keep in mind, a battery array isn't something patented by Tesla, you could easily (safety in mind!) create a "powerwall" yourself; or use someone else's.
• dEnigma 9y ago
  "In doing our own research on the roofing industry, it became clear that roofing costs vary widely, and that buying a roof is often a worse experience than buying a car through a dealership." Seems like someone just couldn't resist putting that little jab in there.
• altano 9y ago
  "Your Solar Roof can generate $123,900 of energy over 30 years." Why doesn't the calculator tell me the estimated kWh production instead of a dollar figure that means nothing to me?
• rurabe 9y ago
  Best part "Tile warranty: Infinity, or the lifetime of your house, whichever comes first"
  • pervycreeper 9y ago
    IOW, the lifetime of the house. Not sure what they're getting at.
    • rurabe 9y ago
      I think they are having a bit of math fun
• EGreg 9y ago
  I love their graph, with the solar roof being the only "negative-cost" roof. Really drives the (sales) point home.
• owenversteeg 9y ago
  Holy shit, these comments. "My cars will make $24,000 per year" (in a comment justifying spending a quarter million dollars on Tesla products) "People don't understand how we can spend half their monthly income on one organic drink" (in a completely unrelated comment) "if I buy two Teslas my savings triple!" (another person justifying Tesla's marketing with some creative math) Sounds like something you'd hear from protesters mocking the 1% but no just another day here on HN. I've been here (in various incarnations) long enough to say this, so could we try to be just a little bit more self aware? 24k/yr is nearly double the minimum wage. A quarter million dollars is a truly immense amount of money. And buying two cars is a dream for most of America, ignoring the fact that those are two Teslas, which are roughly $70k cars (and no, you can't currently buy any $35k Teslas no matter what Musk's Twitter says.)
  • darawk 9y ago
    Where are you seeing these comments? EDIT: Found one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14312426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14312426 It seems like he's just running some calculations. Your upset about this seems pretty misplaced. Firstly, he didn't even say he would be buying Tesla cars - just two electric cars. And secondly, he didn't actually claim he had the resources to do any of this, just that he was calculating the ROI on doing it. Which is a figure that i'm interested in, even though I can't afford to buy a solar roof or two electric cars of any variety.
    • owenversteeg 9y ago
      Direct quotes: "People in blah also can't understand how we spend half of their monthly income on some organic blah drink.", qaq "$2000 earned by the cars while not used by owner", palakchokshi (it's clarified elsewhere in the comments that that's $2000 per month) "when I add 2 electric cars, the savings nearly triple", 11thEarlOfMar (to be fair, he seems to be almost free of the reality distortion field, but still the idea of buying two $70k cars to _save_ money is ridiculous)
      • darawk 9y ago
• woodandsteel 9y ago
  Interesting the house in the picture has a chimney and a highly slanted roof. It looks like it is in the north with lots of snow and relatively little sunlight
• pfarnsworth 9y ago
  I am currently waiting to have my roof redone in the next couple of weeks It's going to cost $20k. I went through the calculator and it said that my roof would be about $30k after rebates, with no battery. That, to be honest, is something I wish I had known before I signed the contract to get my roof done. I don't, however, use much electricity. I use about $70/month max for my entire house, so I would literally have to convert everything over to electricity in order for this to be more worthwhile. But at this point, there's no incentive for me to ever get the solar roof unfortunately, having JUST dumped $20k into my shingle roof.
• ed_balls 9y ago
  Apart from people buying these for status there is another market - Hawaii and other remote places where prices are from 2x to 5x comparing to California.
  • thatwebdude 9y ago
    Interesting it to be considered a status symbol; 90% of people walking by will think it's just a normal roof. I can spend pennies for that (comparatively). Now, if I had an array of panels on my normal roof; at least >90% of people would know what they is and be "impressed". However impressed people get about roofs, that is.
    • ed_balls 9y ago
      You can brag in front of friends and family - people you care about.
• gumby 9y ago
  FYI LCoE calculation on Si PV assume a reduction of at least 50% of generating capacity within 20 years. This page just claims "30 years" which is outside the expected lifetime of any cells on the market today.
• stratigos 9y ago
  People are thinking way too much about how much this saves them at a personal level. I think people should instead be thinking about how we can save the existence of the entire species, and all other higher order forms of life on earth, rather than focusing on their individual tax breaks, savings, or other trivial concerns. Yes, your cash flow is rendered quite trivial if life on Earth ends. Invest in the Life Economy, and turn your back on the Death Economy. The value here is in the benefit to life, concern over state monopolized currencies clearly facilitates an economy of death.
  • RodericDay 9y ago
    People serious about saving the planet aren't putting solar shingles on their mansions. They're downsizing.
    • devrandomguy 9y ago
      In a community of entrepreneurs and developers of all stripes, scaling down is an unpopular solution. But, it is the only one that I have been able to follow through on, myself. I have actually come to enjoy the newfound simplicity in my life.
    • steego 9y ago
      I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'll throw out this perspective: If you want to invent tomorrow's computer today, you can do it by spending a lot of money per unit. That was thinking at Xerox Parc and at SRI before it. Tying it together, often the only people who can afford and bootstrap early prototypes are wealthy people. Elon has tapped into this strategy by making the early prototypes of his cars and shingles sexy so wealthy people can signal to other wealthy people that they are high-minded and forward thinking people. Good. If we can use that to bootstrap the production of cheaper shingle/panels for billions of people in the long run, we're better off in the long run. Nevertheless, I agree with your fundamental premise that downsizing, possession sharing and clever recycling is the best solution for most people. Personally speaking, I'd much rather live a life where I share my personal possessions and consume as little as possible. Call me a hippy, but I could care less for owning most shit. It doesn't make me happy for the most part. I'd also love to see us get away from heating/cooling buildings and research heating/cooling bodies with interesting clothing. Again, I think targeting high-minded/forward-thinking wealthy people is a good strategy for cultivating an important industries and products like this.
• waynecochran 9y ago
  Google's solar saving estimator is pretty cool -- I punch in my house address and it examines my roof line and notes how southernly each part of your roof lies. Unfortunately, it says my cost would go up $53 a month! No point in getting solar if you live in Portland.
• zensavona 9y ago
  I understand where these people who are saying it sucks and it's too expensive are coming from. It is more expensive than normal solar panels. BUT! How many wealthy people have beautiful houses that don't have solar panels? Why do you think that is? Tesla has this cool factor that didn't exist for environmentally friendly things before. How many super rich people drove electric cars or hybrids before? Now Teslas are one of the cool things to have. They are absolutely targeting a different segment of the population, but I think overall it's a very positive thing and it'll probably work.
• dynofuz 9y ago
  The hail ball test is deceptive. The tesla tile is held with more support since its horizontal. the max distance to any corner support is maybe 2-3 inches. the other natural tiles are vertical, and therefore have 4-5 inches to the farthest supported corners. It may still work, but we cant tell from that video.
  • fmihaila 9y ago
    > The hail ball test is deceptive. In that case, Tesla is deceiving itself, since they offer unlimited warranty for the roof.
• bootload 9y ago
  "Solar Roof uses two types of tiles—solar and non-solar. Looking at the roof from street level, the tiles look the same. Customers can select how many solar tiles they need based on their home’s electricity consumption." Game changer for suburban housing. This will accelerate the decentralisation of power generation making it less likely power failure will occur. Now for housing regulations at state and municipal level to mandate solar tiles in construction.
• OrthoMetaPara 9y ago
  This is the dumbest thing ever. If you live in a city or a suburb, you don't need one of these things because you'll be connected to a grid that can give you electricity that is far more efficiently generated. If you live in a rural area with a lot of sun, then you can just put solar panels on the ground where they're not a bitch to clean. I'm not against using solar electricity because it can be made affordable but this idea is equivalent to the backyard blast furnaces in Maoist China. It's a waste of time and only useful for status signaling to your eco-chic friends.
  • sliken 9y ago
    Most grid power is not solar. So running local solar can save you money, cool off your house (cool attic in the shade of the solar), and decrease your peak load on the power grid which makes the grid more efficient. Even in rural areas while cheaper to mount on the ground, you lose the savings of a cooler house.
    • intrasight 9y ago
      That last sentence made no sense to me.
• foxylad 9y ago
  Does anyone know how the electrical connection works? It seems to me that this is critical. If connections fail in a really hostile environment (high thermal range and moisture levels) then maintenance will kill any savings. But if they've solved this problem, (and perhaps have an efficient way to replace tiles without removing the ones above), then I'd guess they will be wildly successful. I once visited my brother who was having a new slate roof installed. While inspecting it, he saw a cracked slate on the bottom row. He insisted it be replaced, which meant removing an ever-increasing triangle of tiles above it, until you reached the ridge. The contractor did not have a good day.
  • thatwebdude 9y ago
    If all are assumed to be powered, then I think an assumed failure rate is acceptable to the warranty. Are they going to have an interface that "reports" bad shingles on your roof? Hell no! But if you're roof is generating whatever the acceptable range is for the area, then you're good.
• awkwardtortoise 9y ago
  It is obvious that there are lot of PR firm employees working for Tesla all over social media. A new roofing technology that is "zero risk". So many people are trying to "sell" Tesla roof here, reddit and all over social media. It's kind of sad.
  • gpm 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure that the vast majority (if not all) of the people trying to sell this are not paid, but simply doing so because they want solar power to be a thing.
    • awkwardtortoise 9y ago
      Doing what? Evangelizing? Like you? Scouring this thread and responding to every comment that doesn't toe the company line?
      • dang 9y ago
        Personal attacks will get your account banned on Hacker News, so please don't do this again.
  • dang 9y ago
    PR is a thing, but so are internet users who see it in everything their own opinions don't align with. Please keep that trope off HN unless you have specific evidence. Comments you disagree with aren't evidence, just opportunities for self-control. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14313103 and marked it off-topic.
• myrandomcomment 9y ago
  I need to replace my roof this year / next year. Cost ~15-20k for normal roofing, up to 50k for metal. I want solar on top of that and backup power. Just put my money down for this. Cost is under the 50k I was thinking about just for the metal roof! Time will tell when they come out and do the survey to see how correct it is but I am excited.
• awqrre 9y ago
  At my house, it would take more then 20 years to use up $53,500 worth of electricity assuming that the panels would be able to generate all the electricity that I need (and it probably would not be able to because my roof is not in the perfect angle). I probably will have to stick to a conventional roof.
  • thatwebdude 9y ago
    Good news! Conventional roofs are 100% compatible with conventional solar panels.
• bikamonki 9y ago
  Sit down and dig this: in my country the State owns sunshine. Yep. They even made sure it was included in the last Constitution. So, if this tech ever becomes cheap enough for the masses, government will be ready to tax it.
• lostgame 9y ago
  I see a lot of these personal level-vs-global level discussions here but ultimately not enough posts celebrating the fact that we're looking at both, here, and looking at a potentially much better future because of it. Go, Tesla.
• fernly 9y ago
  For a counterweight let me present this interview[0] with the CEO of "the largest privately held solar contracting company in America", near the end of which he says several disparaging things about Tesla's roof, including, > When I saw the demo he did at Universal Studios... What I saw was a piece of glass that looked like it had a cell in it. The challenges he’s going to have is, how are you going to wire it? Every one of those shingles has to be wired. > Roofs have valleys and they have hips and they have pipes. … How are you going to work around that? How are you going to cut that glass? Are you going to cut right through the cell? The latter question is perhaps answered by the posted article, "Solar Roof uses two types of tiles—solar and non-solar." So Petersen's question is moot, the glass/solar tiles don't have to be cut to fit in a hip or around a flue, that will be done to the non-solar tiles that look the same. The question of wiring is open: imagine the grid of wires that have to underly that roof, and getting them all put down without a break or a short, by big guys with nail guns (if you've ever watched roofers at work -- it isn't a precision operation). Then Petersen goes on to say, > So I would say for the record ... it’ll be cost-prohibitive. ... For $55,000 I can give you a brand-new roof that will last forever — 50 years — and I can give you all the solar you can handle. ... (Musk’s) product is going to be north of $100,000. The graph in the posted article does not directly address total up-front installed cost, but rather tries to combine cost with some anticipated lifetime energy return -- a procedure with a LOT of variables and assumptions. I would like to see real numbers for a Tesla roof, $/sq.yd installed. [0] http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/04/from-summer-job-to-solar-king/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/04/from-summer-job-to-sol...
  • arcticfox 9y ago
    You can use their calculator to edit any of the assumptions, and the math is fairly transparent. The question of installation is a straightforward challenge that's easily testable, presumably they have a solution that works or they wouldn't announce yet. It's pretty obvious to see if it's going to work or not: just send a team out to put on a test roof and see how much work it is. [0] https://www.tesla.com/solarroof https://www.tesla.com/solarroof
  • fernly 9y ago
    OK I just put my address into the calculator and I think the thing's bogus. Without asking anything about my house size or my solar exposure, based solely on my address, it gives me a hard figure ($53,100) for the roof cost and a 30-year energy income of $76,100. I call bullshit. First, I do not believe they actually know the size of my house or the orientation of the (numerous) roof pitches to the sun. Spoiler: it's only 1300 sq feet and the longest roof ridge is oriented NW-SE, far from optimal for exposure. Then there are the three very large oak trees that shadow it from three sides. Then there is the fact that my utility is a local one, not PG&E, and I doubt they took the different rate structure into account. And if they did, how the F do they know what Palo Alto utilities will charging in 10, 20 or 30 years? They don't know. The whole calculator is a bogus fantasy toy.
• tankerdude 9y ago
  Hrmmm... I just signed a contract a few weeks ago with SunPower solar panels. Over 40K for almost 8kWh of electricity. It's a hefty cost but it's ready now. It's a nearly flush mount so I'm ok with it and it's still a traditional look in the front where it's concrete tile that would last longer than I will live. Lastly though, I wonder how they deal with valleys and different roof pitches. It would look a little odd unless it is non functional.
• yeukhon 9y ago
  > Installations will start in June, beginning with California Would be interested in NYC. So a couple questions for those already done this: * any tax benefit / government subsidies I should be aware of? * starting small, recommendation? pricing?
• MR4D 9y ago
  Tesla has an error somewhere. I checked their website calculator vs their source of Google project sunroof, and Tesla thinks my roof is 5 times bigger, with an electric bill nearly twice as high! Doing some quick math, I can confirm that Google's number are reasonably close on both, while Tesla's are just plain wrong. The result is a Tesla roof that would cost roughly $170,000. Worse, that's about half the value of my house! I know - early days - but, wow, surprised by the estimate!
• gigatexal 9y ago
  The infinity warranty is a draw for me.
• puranjay 9y ago
  This is one of my pet peeves with HN. People here often gang up on a product if it doesn't meet their specific requirements or budget. Could it simply be that you aren't the target market for this product? Also, people comparing the cost of this roof with the cost of a conventional roof are being a little ingenuous. This roof has ROOF + SOLAR. You'll have to include cost of an equivalent solar system + roof if you want to do a cost to cost comparison. It's obviously not cheap, but if there are people - and there are plenty of people - who can afford it, why knock it down?
  • DannyBee 9y ago
    "Also, people comparing the cost of this roof with the cost of a conventional roof are being a little ingenuous." Because that's precisely what elon did! "“So the basic proposition will be: Would you like a roof that looks better than a normal roof, lasts twice as long, costs less and—by the way—generates electricity?” Musk said. “Why would you get anything else?” " Note the "Costs less" part. In case you wanted to argue about that: "Musk told the crowd that he had just returned from a meeting with his new solar engineering team. Tesla’s new solar roof product, he proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof—even before savings from the power bill. " Note very specifically: "Cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof - even before savings from the power bill".
• kartickv 9y ago
  Would it be possible to decouple the roof from the solar? In other words, I'd buy this roof for the cost of a normal roof, and an investor would pay for the cost of the solar panels, and they'd own the electricity that comes from it. The panels would provide me a power backup (in the event of a power cut), for which I'd pay at the same rate as I pay the grid. This would be helpful for houseowners who want to be green, or want backup in the event of a power cut (a regular event in India), but don't want to or can't invest so much in a roof. They get power backup without making an upfront investment. Investors would benefit from getting a free site to install their panels on.
• batushka 9y ago
  I hope only rich people will be separated from their money and no loans will be given for this.
• brianbreslin 9y ago
  Has anyone here looked into PACE financing (https://ygreneworks.com/faqs/ https://ygreneworks.com/faqs/ ) for projects like this? what is the interest rate or cost?
• beezle 9y ago
  A bit late on this, but have to wonder what fire departments think about this roof/panel? How difficult will it be to vent a roof? Will the roof present an electrical risk to firemen (even assuming there is a cut off below) Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of municipalities have given too much thought to widespread solar use and I wonder if this will fall afoul of possible future regs.
  • thatwebdude 9y ago
    This is a very good point, unless they're assuming they're as easy to break as tile; which I think is a bad assumption considering the plastics/glue used in solar panels; When they break they barely shatter and most stand up to intense hail storms just fine.
• nextlevelshit 9y ago
  Has anybody information about the energy cost for production of one tile and the time it takes to generate this energy by the solar cell. Just the fact that it is a solar roof doesn't mean it is environmentally friendly!
• kristinafoley 9y ago
  The bigger problem with this is that they are being made at 2009 electrical code specifications, and we're at 2017. Will they really be available anywhere outside of California? The calculator will not go over 50%. So then what? Still pay for their tiles for the whole roof? And what if 4 in the middle of my roof are bad? Or 10? or 4 this week and 10 next week? How many times do I have to have them out? What about ALL the wires? Where do those all go? Each tile will have wires needing to connect to an inverter and the Powerwall? Electricians are already in high demand, how long will I have to wait for them to do this? Electricians are EXPENSIVE, do I have to pay for each hour they are repairing this system?? Powerwalls have a 10 year warranty. There is no cost for replacement included in their 30 year projections. Is anyone believing this administration will continue the tax credit, on solar?? Solar shingles have been done. Every company has already discontinued them. CGI works in advertising, but doesn't work in reality.