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COAP endpoints on IKEA Trådfri
- DamonHD 10y agoInteresting write-up. Looks like a genuine IoT non-horror story so far! Rgds Damon
- draugadrotten 10y agoThere's open source work being done on these lights in the (totally awesome) home assistant community https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/61zuao/ikea_tr%C3%A5dfri_lights_on_home_assistant_pi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/61zuao/ikea_... and preliminary support is at https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant/pull/6263 https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant/pull/6263 The lights use ZLL, https://www.letscontrolit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2197 https://www.letscontrolit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=219...
- vishbar 10y agoIf Tradfri bulbs use ZLL, is it theoretically possible to connect Tradfri bulbs to an existing Hue network?
- draugadrotten 10y agoYes, some people have done it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcBp3wamIU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcBp3wamIU0 However Philips appear to be modifying Hue software to prevent it. Cloud lock-in. https://developers.meethue.com/comment/2337#comment-2337 https://developers.meethue.com/comment/2337#comment-2337
- akvadrako 10y agoThere was a firmware change in 2016 that blocked 3rd party bulbs but it didn't take long for the public pressure to influence them enough to revert it. Philips Hue hubs do work with 3rd party ZLL endpoints. However, the likely reason they disabled 3rd party device support was because all Zigbee products have compatibility issues; nothing works as well as staying with one brand. You can't always control all features and can't update firmware of all 3rd party devices from any hub. Sometimes you just need to manually configure the drivers (in code).
- deanclatworthy 10y agoAccording to Phillips [1] it is IKEA not implementing the standard as they expect it to be implemented. That said, it's hard to say who is right here. Either way, consumers are losing out. As a side note, IKEA's brightest bulb is 1000lm which is much brighter than the brightest Hue bulb, and it's cheaper :) I can perhaps see why Phillips would not go out their way to resolve this issue. [1] https://developers.meethue.com/comment/2686#comment-2686 https://developers.meethue.com/comment/2686#comment-2686 Edit: fixed typo of watts vs lumen :)
- fnord123 10y ago"IKEA's brightest bulb is 1000W" 1000 Lumen. 1000 Watt bulbs exist for grow lights but IKEA doesn't make them that thirsty.
- SEJeff 10y agoAaaaand home assistant can "emulate" the hue bridge to integrate them all seamlessly: https://home-assistant.io/components/emulated_hue/ https://home-assistant.io/components/emulated_hue/
- georgehotelling 10y agoThe Hue Bridge connects an IP network to a ZigBee network. That component emulates the IP side: it accepts IP commands for lights and translates them to Home Assistant devices. That's handy if you have something like an Amazon Echo that knows how to communicate via Hue's IP protocol. What I believe you are describing would require a ZigBee radio and support for the ZigBee Light Link protocol (or maybe ZigBee Home Automation?). Luckily, there's a PR being worked on to support that in Home Assistant: https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant/pull/6263 https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant/pull/6263
- _pmf_ 10y agoCOAP is so much nicer than MQTT. MQTT is consultant-driven over-engineering and under delivery par excellence.
- Tepix 10y agoWhich aspects of MQTT are you not happy with?
- kefka 10y agoYeah, I'm not getting the MQTT hate either. With Mosquitto, I can run a very tiny broker. And things as small as "Arduino with ethernet chip" can serve as a MQTT client. I'd consider something that can run in 16MHz with 2k ram and 32k storage to not be something "consultant-driven over-engineering and under delivery par excellence."
- jvermillard 10y agoyes, but without communication security
- kefka 10y agoIndeed. If you're going with an Arduino/ethernet you are not going to get SSL layer between client/broker. Then again, you do get the security of being on a wired network, and little to no RF emissions. If you "upgrade" to an ESP class microprocessor, you do get MQTT, CoAP, and SSL support. And frankly the more protocols, the better. Some do tend to be better than others in different situations. I know I greatly prefer MQTT, for its clean and basic protocol. It gets out of the way for me to do what I want, basic Pub/Sub and storing relevant data into a MongoDB for timeseries. I know at work, we're using RabbitMQ (AMQP). It has its own positives and negatives. My biggest concern is it serves as a forward-and-store datastore - another place where backups need to be made, let we lose essential data. I'm against complex moving parts, where simpler moving parts would suffice.
- dade_ 10y ago
- johnlbevan2 10y agoFor those unfamiliar with CoAP, it's a REST based protocol for machine-to-machine communication targeted at IoT (Internet of Things) scenarios particularly in Home Automation. NB: Unlike REST though, URLS begin COAP:// instead of HTTP:// or HTTPS://. This site gives a good overview: https://www.slideshare.net/jvermillard/co-ap https://www.slideshare.net/jvermillard/co-ap Whilst this gives a lot more info: http://coap.technology/ http://coap.technology/
- geonnave 10y agos/Unlike REST/Unlike HTTP
- shshhdhs 10y agoI think your regular expression needs a /g at the end, no? Edit: This was a serious question, not sure I deserve multiple downvotes
- peterwwillis 10y agoIt only needs "/". "g" finds all matches, but there is only one match in the string.
- newman314 10y agoStill needs the trailing /
- skywhopper 10y agoOnly for sed/perl. Not if you are using vim (although in that case it's missing the leading `:`).
- mstade 10y agoAlso, the RFC is quite a nice read: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252 I particularly like the introduction, which succinctly explains the value in realizing a subset of REST common with HTTP, while not just blindly trying to make a compressed version of HTTP. The end result is a protocol which is quite easy to map to each other, not just in terms of implementation but also in terms of mindset. Being familiar with HTTP means you won't feel completely lost in trying to learn CoAP, which is pretty cool.
- avocade 10y agoGood to see. Investing time in any IKEA infrastructure is probably a high-factor value return.
- avocade 10y agoIOT, how long until the Homebridge plugin is posted? https://github.com/nfarina/homebridge https://github.com/nfarina/homebridge
- avocade 10y agohttps://github.com/stenehall/homebridge-ikea https://github.com/stenehall/homebridge-ikea
- mabbo 10y agoFor reference, Tradfri is an IoT lighting kit: http://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/90353361/ http://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/90353361/
- lawik 10y agoI got the impression from an earlier article that it is completely without Internet though. So more LAN of Things?
- roel_v 10y agoDepending on who you ask, IoT = anything that speaks TCP/IP. Many 'IoT' products can be used without access to the 'public' internet.
- lawik 10y agoFair enough. At least it doesn't run through some cloud solution that will leave it bricked when it stops running. Glad they've chosen an interoperable approach even though they don't explicitly encourage interop.
- awalton 10y agoThat's the real problem with most of the "Internet of Things" products - they really shouldn't have skipped the "Network of Things" step. So many of the problems with these products could have been reasonably and properly shaken down and out... but instead all of the companies decided to unnecessarily bridge their products with the cloud and hastily rush to the market.
- TorKlingberg 10y agoThe problem is that with mobile and all the NAT firewalls in use today, going to a cloud service and back is easiest way to connect any two devices.
- 10y ago
- pdpi 10y agoSecond article in a short while that praises Ikea's implementation. In the face of the security disaster that IoT devices usually represent, I'm somewhat dumbfounded by the idea that it would be Ikea, of all companies, to break the mould.
- lawik 10y agoRefreshing isn't it? Not familiar with IKEA's track record in electronics though. I've had mostly good experiences with the furniture (though price influences quality a lot). Bad experiences with their cheap wok pans. But generally my IKEA stuff works well. Nice to seem them align with standards though, because they seem to have their own standards for curtains. Very upsetting :)
- pdpi 10y agoThey do have a well-proven track record of providing very good value for money, and I get the impression that they achieve the prices they do through ruthless optimisation of their processes. I'm curious to see how that culture extends to software engineering (Provided they do it in-house).
- coriny 10y agoCertainly ruthless optimisation of their corporate structure with respect to tax helps contribute to their low prices: http://www.economist.com/node/6919139 http://www.economist.com/node/6919139. But it's nice to think that it could also be due to genuine technical ability.
- lawik 10y agoYeah, IKEA isn't really a saint, few corporations are. But they've done a lot of technical optimisation as well that should contribute to their low pricing. Flatpacks, big production runs, design stuff to be cheap to produce. A whole bunch of things. And while I doubt their morals (corporations rarely have any) I generally have faith in their quality-to-price ratio. Not a resounding endorsement, just have had few problems.
- rnhmjoj 10y agoI had no idea .well-known was a standard (RFC 5785). Strange choice of name for a site metadata location.
- chriswarbo 10y agoIt's to prevent a proliferation of things like /favicon.ico, /robots.txt, etc. each of which may actually be dynamically generated (e.g. think of subdomains like someguy.tumblr.com ), and therefore requires separate handling in firewalls, routing, etc. Basically many of the same problems you might encounter with librarys whose API is a bunch of globals; or a shell script which takes in options from hardcoded file paths rather than commandline flags or env vars. The ".well-known" path makes this easier to manage going forward, since you can single it out for special handling once, and implement the contents however you like (statically, dynamically, whatever).
- mstade 10y agoNot to mention that there's also an IANA registry for these URLs, so things can be a little less ad-hoc: https://www.iana.org/assignments/well-known-uris/well-known-uris.xml https://www.iana.org/assignments/well-known-uris/well-known-...
- bgentry 10y agoThere seems to be conflicting info on whether the lights themselves support ZigBee Light Link (ZLL) or only ZigBee HA. Has anybody tested this? Also I'm curious if they're still ZigBee 2 or if they're ZigBee 3.0, which essentially merges those standards together.
- arielweisberg 10y agoI bought some of these this weekend. The big perk? You don't need to use them as IoT devices at all. Hold one button to pair with a remote and you are done. Unlike say the very expensive power mattress base (bad Ergotron) I bought which has sleep tracking that will only work if I reveal all my health data on my phone to their app. This includes data not collected by the mattress. It also requires you give your wifi password. They explicitly tell you they are going to sync it all to their cloud. They basically demand the keys to the kingdom when all they should need is some basic bluetooth syncing to my phone. Obviously I did not move forward with the sleep tracking functionality.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]