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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own
- mrtri 10y agocurrent education system is make students ready to become an obedient debt slave.
- fapjacks 10y agoSo we shouldn't believe something an enormous corporation says? Shocking.
- techsupporter 10y ago> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we're all just supposed to be OK with this, as if this is how the world works or some crap. If your public advertising--especially, but not limited to, when administering a service on behalf of the government--explicitly says "call us and we will help you," your company should not then be able to turn around and say "well, caveat emptor for calling us, sucker." Meanwhile, the handful of agencies devoted to trying to help the individual get any kind of a fair shake from the company "provider" that massively outguns any one individual customer, are all under attack from all sides as being "too heavy handed." (I love the CFPB, in case you can't tell.) Oh, and this whole "consumer" crap? I'm not a "consumer," I'm a customer. I'm not consuming anything from a financial services provider, I'm using their services. Stop with the idea that all of us are just mindless drones, eating our Pac Man-like dots on the way to a swift end, and maybe get back to the idea that real people are on the other end of those faceless account numbers. (FWIW, this applies to every company with mandatory, binding arbitration clauses, including the oh-so-enlightened participants in Y Combinator. Don't restrict my ability to hold you to your side of the agreement while reserving all rights to pound me into the sand at your leisure.)
- noonespecial 10y ago>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc) on an offer you make in print, those will have to be printed in an equal font in order to be valid.
- bbrazil 10y agoThat's already (roughly) the law in the EU.
- bbrian 10y agoIt's why software licences have some text in capitals.
- ChrisBland 10y agoWow, that is one of the most simple, effective ideas I've ever heard -- kudos. Not joking or sarcasm, I would love for that to be the rule, it would make life so much simpler.
- rco8786 10y agoBrilliant idea
- jordanmoconnor 10y agoIt's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineering corporate job to (minimally) pay the bills. EDIT: More Context: I went to an engineering focused private university, borrowed my way through the whole thing (housing, food, everything), parents didn't pay a dime. Stupid? Yes.
- greggeter 10y ago10000x yes
- paulpauper 10y agoIMHO, reality paints a sightly more optimistic picture...the average debt per graduate is $30,000--about the price of a new car, but as measured by wages, a degree gains value (this is because since 2009 wages for grads have seen much stronger growth than wages for non-grads) http://greyenlightenment.com/is-college-a-big-waste-of-time-and-money-it-depends http://greyenlightenment.com/is-college-a-big-waste-of-time-... I read stories on Reddit about grads who have debt but are also making decent 5-6 figures and paying the student loan debt, but also also investing the stock market and buying a home, so it's not like they are in poverty or living paycheck to paycheck. The student loan debt can be manageable in many instances, especially if you major in a high-ROI subject.
- hkmurakami 10y agoIt would be helpful (though very difficult) if we could isolate the branding/signaling value of certain colleges from the education/training value of colleges, to ascertain the nature of the return on investment value that is being derived from colleges or varying statures, locations, etc. "What we are buying" through 4 years of college seems to be getting less and less clear to me, and the administrators are very much involved in keeping things as difficult to measure as possible.
- Arubis 10y ago"[Navient pointed out]...more than 40 percent of loan balances it services for the Education Department are enrolled in income-based repayment plans." Over 40% of people with US Government-sponsored student loans--which were presumably taken out in order to advance the career prospects of the borrower--are not being paid sufficiently to repay their loans on the basis of their original issuance, _and this is presented as a good thing_. Unbelievable.
- wyldfire 10y agoI don't think you understood the article. Navient is a debt collector. They were sold loans owned by the US Dept of Ed (or hired by the department of ed maybe?) "more than 40 percent of loan balances it services...." means that out of the loans that the US Dept of Ed decided it can't collect on anymore -- many of those are using the option that would benefit them the most. The article talks about Navient saying one thing: "we want to help all of the borrowers because they are actually not just borrowers but citizen/constituents"; while doing another: "thanks for calling Navient, having trouble paying your loan? Just hit the loan-pause-button and we will pause your loan for 24 months. No, we will not tell you this but you could have asked for the 'smaller loan payments because you're not earning much' button'."
- LyndsySimon 10y ago> out of the loans that the US Dept of Ed decided it can't collect on anymore Nope - Navient isn't a collector, it's a servicing company.
- lr4444lr 10y agoIt's both[0]. But what it's not doing is duping aspiring college graduates to take out these loans in the first place. As detestable as their predation on the delinquent may be, they're not pumping up the loan bubble. https://www.navient.com/about/who-we-are/services/ https://www.navient.com/about/who-we-are/services/
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- jknoepfler 10y agoWhile I appreciate that people are sour about student debt, I don't think Navient, qua big business, should behave in any other way. I personally think public universities should be free and highly selective, rather than the opposite. But I also think taking out loans with no plan to repay them is criminally stupid. If the education product being sold is fraudulent, go after the fraudulent institution (as has been done). But the bank? They're just a bank. And no, I don't think it's good that we have banks financing student debt, but I sure as hell don't blame banks for doing it. This is a fabulous example of why privatizing what should be a public service is a terrible idea, yes, and this is the ridiculous game we get to play as a result... blaming the bank for playing hardball over money. Really?
- givinguflac 10y agoWithholding information is not playing hardball, that position is just stupid. So you're saying banks should be able to lie and mislead people, with no consequences or regulation? Do you not remember 2008?
- white-flame 10y ago> privatizing The core of the issue is still the university tuition rates, and universities involved are usually not privatized. These public institutions have become profit centers, benefiting from the captive audience of young career seekers, and cranking up administration overhead costs in their budgets to absorb the increased amounts of loan money available to prospective students. Loans are always hardball business, and student loans are no different (although this case is clearly false advertising). The fact that the government sought to get more university degrees into the hands of citizens by increasing loan availability and size is the short-sighted idiocy that helped bootstrap this mess.
- jknoepfler 10y agoIt's a vicious cycle imo. (cheap money -> higher tuition -> political pressure for more cheaper money -> ...)
- ericd 10y ago
- gorbachev 10y agoCalling Anonymous. Retrain your targets.
- givinguflac 10y agoNavient is consistently the worst company I've ever dealt with, including Comcast.
- popopobobobo 10y agoI always pay the minimum due balance on time. Haven't explored any other features. Right now it seems ok to me.
- givinguflac 10y agoI meant specifically in dealing with their customer service being knowledgeable and honest. Of course their online payment tools work properly, that's how they make money :). Suggestion- depending on your loan details, you may be able to pay down debt faster by paying the 1/2 the minimum twice a month. You're spending the same amount, but cutting down some of the interest every time which will reduce the principle faster over time and hence also reduce future interest accrued.
- thebooktocome 10y agoReally? I didn't have any trouble with them.
- necessity 10y agoGovernment launches a mass amount of federal student loans, demand skyrockets, offer does not, prices skyrocket. Basic economical interference.
- jorblumesea 10y agoEveryone, if you are with any major big loan lender, please consider refinancing under So-Fi or others.
- thoughtpalette 10y agoI've heard you lose a lot of rights refinancing that way.
- jorblumesea 10y agoReally? Any links/citations/posts? Curious about this. Also debatable as to whether you had those rights in the first place (see: this thread)
- rhino369 10y agoYou lose the ability to use the (very generous) income based repayment plans.
- jorblumesea 10y agoAh interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks!
- burkemw3 10y agoSome government loans are discharged at death [0]. SoFi etc loans would still go after the estate. In my analysis, this risk/reward analysis matters most for debters considering marriage. [0]: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/death https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...
- twblalock 10y agoThis is good advice for a certain subset of people. If your income is high enough that you won't qualify for the income-based repayment plans, it can make sense to refinance. On the other hand, if you need IBR, or some of the other protections offered by federal loans, you are taking a risk by refinancing. You'll lose those protections, and you might need them in the future. If you are pursuing one of the public service loan forgiveness programs, you probably need to keep the federal loans. I refinanced with Commonbond, a Sofi competitor, a few years ago. My loan balance was fairly low compared to my income, I would never qualify for income-based repayment, and my federal loan rate was something like 6.8%. I refinanced my 10-year loan to a 5-year loan with a low interest rate. My situation was ideal for this. However, if your loan balance is more than your annual salary, or you need to rely on the federal loan protections for some other reason, you shouldn't do it. On the other hand, there seems to be no downside to refinancing private student loans.
- kchoudhu 10y agoWhy is a student loan servicer any different from a mortgage servicer? I don't go to my mortgage servicer for leniency or charity; why should my student loan servicer be any different? If we want student loan servicer behavior to change, we need to legislate it. Just like we did (or didn't, depending on your point of view) for mortgage servicers.
- jimktrains2 10y agoNot to actually argue for or against, but mortgage holders don't hand 5 or 6 figures of unsecured debt to an 18 year old without any due diligence on if the loan has a chance of being repaid.
- umanwizard 10y agoNeither does Navient.
- srtjstjsj 10y agoNaviant works on behalf of those who do
- kchoudhu 10y agoStudent loan servicers are guaranteed repayment by statute. They are in a much easier business than mortgage lenders. That said, Navient is in the business of collecting on debts, and they have every right to do so within the bounds of the law. They don't owe borrowers anything.
- jimktrains2 10y agoAnd those statues are the only reason student loans exist. It's a laughable idea, at the scale they are now anyway, otherwise. I don't personally expect Navient to do anything better than follow the law; I don't expect any help or counseling from them. In fact, I'd be suspect of any such counsellings.
- jnagro 10y agowhen they took over my loans from salliemae they told us (in writing) that auto-pay would transition.... then it didn't transition, and they tried to ding me for a missed payment. what a nightmare. ultimately my issue was resolved, but only after i filed a complaint with a team at the federal student aid office that handles disputes that cannot be resolved through the lender: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/disputes/prepare/contact-ombudsman https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/disputes/prepare/co... then a navient person in that department reached out to me almost immediately. Edit: You can also file complaints for general consumer financial help here: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
- ikeboy 10y ago>“What this means for the Education Department is that it needs to fire Navient,” Bergeron said. “Damn the costs.” This is literally how costs go up. "OMG we need this, damn the costs" "OMG why does everything cost so much, why is the debt so high?"
- alistproducer2 10y agoStudent loan money is awesome. Go to a state school, pay for school with PELL grants and working. Take the loan money and bank/invest/refinance stuff with it. The interest doesn't start accruing until after graduation so until then it's free money. The worst thing you can do with it is actually pay for school with it, especially an expensive private school for a degree with uncertain job prospects.
- djrogers 10y agoInvesting with borrowed money that you legally cannot default on is not a good plan...
- thatfrenchguy 10y agoThen the market crashes and you're left with non-dischargeable debt, great.
- thatwebdude 10y agoThat's a bad assumption that PELL grants are just freely given out to anyone and everyone. You still have to qualify, and the financial status of your parents weighs heavily on that factor.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- onmobiletemp 10y agoMaybe this is tangential but this is a theme that seems to have infected schools themselves as well. I was recently swindled (yes, straight up swindled) by my university. I go to a uc (not riverside or merced) and the student health and wellness center literally swindled me out of almost a hundred dollars by using fine print. To protect my anonyminity i wont go into details but rest assured a called every authority i could and nothing was done. Consider that and then look at the swelling administration, lack of class availability, the sheer cost of attending and finally and most importantly the lack of meaningful learning. Its all a huge scam. But you need a degree if you want to have a high quality of life (unless youre exceptional in some way which the average dude is of course not) so nobody can do a damn thing about it. Fuck this shitty sytem.
- loblollyboy 10y agoAnyone here know if this whole mess is going to end badly?This is something I google a lot as I kind of don't want to pay, but I suffer from selection bias and HN usually has good insight on things.
- Neliquat 10y agoWhy not focus on prospering instead of avoiding dues?
- kevmo 10y agoInstitutionalized debt slavery.
- jm__87 10y agoHonestly, this is a private corp acting in its own best interests under the law. Everyone here complaining that Navient is horrible... this is what capitalism is. If you don't like the law, talk to your congressman/senators and get the law changed. IMHO the schools are the bad guys here.. they are taking advantage of a situation where the government will just hand loans to everyone and there is no way they can lose. Why not just make an undergraduate degree a public good at this point. Taxpayers are already paying to bail all these people out, it is partially a public good already except the students who hold all the debt have to go through hell and Navient gets a cut of the taxpayer money in the process.
- lr4444lr 10y agoExactly. This is blaming the vultures who pick at the carcasses for the predators who set the traps.
- VonGuard 10y agoMy wife and I have dealt with these goons before. Their favorite trick is missing a payment, leaving it on a desk and then despoiting it weeks later, after charging fees. Or, if you have 2 loans, they are sure you never pay any of them down, even if you literally tell them (pay loan #1 all of this months payments, ending it). They purposefully screw up... All roads lead to money in politics allowing them to do whatever they want and not have repercussions.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- elastic_church 10y agoWhen public agencies push for more than kickback money, they always run the risk of being declared unconstitutional in a costly court battle that at best case undermines the agencies' budget. The CFPB is young and they might have bat higher than they should have. Take a page out of the SEC playback and settle for kickbacks.
- ryanalam 10y agoSo does anyone know where to find stats on student debt amounts outstanding, the maturity schedules, and the proportion of variable rate to fixed rate debt? I'm curious to see how vulnerable the country is to default risk should interest rates move upward or some other shock to the economy take place.
- koga-ninja 10y agoThe way I see it, maybe there is a misunderstanding going on, Or maybe Navient's publicity materials are too touchy-feely. According to the article, Navient is a private company, So shouldn't they have an expectation of return on Investment. This is not the U.S. government, which may Forgive debt. Another point is why the hunger for expensive education, Which may be a Marxist critique, but since when did A credential make you a better software designer. People are dying all over the globe, and we are worried About the top 20 percent wage earners of the superpower USA.