27 ms·

New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

• alecco 10y ago
  Hopefully the industry will reinvent itself and VCs fund more overseas startups.
  • awinder 10y ago
    If H1B salary restrictions are a big part of what you're doing as a small startup, there's probably more wrong than that. This move should be hitting large, established firms way, way harder
• Shivetya 10y ago
  so is this catching up or exceeding the rate of inflation? How was this salary number not tied to inflation or another index? If anything it seems to me to be a benefit to those seeking employment who have real skills and ability.
  • rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    $120k might be a starter's salary in the Bay Area but in, say, Rochester, NY, it's nothing to sneeze at. I agree that indexing to inflation is probably necessary, but there are so many factors to inflation at a local level that it's hard to make a one size fits all
  • Retric 10y ago
    It's slightly more than inflation, but as it does not index to inflation it's going to quickly become meaningless.
    • gregw2 10y ago
      Read the article. It is indexed to 35% above the median wage for a computer worker according to some of existing Department of Labor category. That median wage presumably will indirectly rise with inflation, so it's better than the previous static # and arguably more tied to the intent of the statute than even pure inflation indexing would be.
      • Retric 10y ago
        I doubt that category is really as fixed as you are thinking. At one point fast food prep was categorized as factory workers to make some statistics look different.
  • nicolas_t 10y ago
    If the $60,000 from 1989 had been indexed on inflation, it would be $115,000 now. So, 130k doesn't seem so unreasonable. Of course, that does exclude states and cities with a lower cost of living. It would really make more sense to just index it to inflation or even better to the cost of live of the city where the employee would work (but that would potentially leave some loopholes)
    • Clubber 10y ago
      >just index it to inflation It's so that politicians can fight every few years it needs to be raised and say, "vote for me, I fight for wages." On the other side of their mouth, on the years they don't fight for an increase, they can go to businesses, "donate to me, or I might have to fight to raise minimum wage this year." The minimum wage fight a few years ago is a prime example of this.
  • gregw2 10y ago
    It was tied to another index according to the article.
• vostok 10y ago
  Hopefully this will free up some H1B visa space for small companies.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• hocuspocus 10y ago
  Color me surprised, I commented on many related threads recently but this sounds actually pretty good! $130k is maybe a little high for seed stage startups but given that we're talking about relocating engineers to the most expensive region in the world, I believe it's fair. And the path from F-1 to Green Card will solve companies taking advantage of people on OPT status, at least partially.
  • pkd 10y ago
    Thing is that the whole of US isn't Silicon Valley or Seattle. Startups in upcoming hubs like Portland and Boulder will suffer(sic) because the salary requirements are too high for them to satisfy given the living costs. It basically means that the only companies who are gonna be able to hire through H1Bs are the big cos or unicorns.
    • scarface74 10y ago
      Companies may have to do something unimaginable and invest in their employees who may not have the exact skill set they need and offer them training or give them time to ramp up....
      • angry_octet 10y ago
        And yet that delay is antithetical to starting to work in a new area, innovating rapidly, etc. The ability to attract and retain employees from anywhere around the world is a massive advantage, and this sounds like a disincentive program. I agree with you that training is part of the solution, but for niche applications that can be pretty hard, you're talking people who have studied for years. So if you are doing work like that, why wouldn't you set up in a country without such restrictions? E.g. Vancouver. How about caps on the percentage of H1Bs/L1s in any company (e.g. 15%), and the ability for H1B workers to transfer employers?
        • scarface74 10y ago
          "but for niche applications that can be pretty hard, you're talking people who have studied for years." How many people that have studied for years to become experts at niche applications are being paid only $60,000 a year - the current minimum for H1B Visas? I would think that getting such an expert is well worth $130,000 a year.
• jankotek 10y ago
  I think this is great news. Right now it is almost impossible to get working visa in US, unless you work for a sweatshop. Minimal salary makes it easier for small business to hire foreigners. > The legislation sets aside 20 percent of the annually allocated H-1B visas for small and start-up employers (50 or fewer employers) to ensure small businesses have an opportunity to compete for high-skilled workers told you so ;)
• ebbv 10y ago
  Reading the article it doesn't sound like this bill does anything to make it easier for the employee to find a different job once they are here (e.g. Making it easier for other employers to take on sponsorship of the H1-B visa.) The article says this bill makes it easier for students to get a path to citizenship but doesn't say anything about H1-B workers. I also don't think the salary requirement is necessarily a win for people who want to come over here as an H1-B worker. The gap is so big it is likely that employers will find someone over here rather than eat the $60k salary increase in some cases. It will be a win for anyone who was going to be close to that new $130k minimum where a big company may just soak the increase. We really need to replace the H1-B program with something that empowers the employees and allows them to switch jobs and have a clear and easy path to citizenship.
  • scarface74 10y ago
    "The gap is so big it is likely that employers will find someone over here rather than eat the $60k salary increase in some cases" I don't see the problem. I can't imagine a job that's only worth $70,000 being so "specialized" that it the company couldn't have found someone that was already in the U.S. to fill. The company was probably taking advantage of the program anyway to get cheap labor.
  • dccoolgai 10y ago
    "that employers will find someone over here" I believe that is rather the point.
  • xtreme 10y ago
    > The article says this bill makes it easier for students to get a path to citizenship but doesn't say anything about H1-B workers. My understanding of the text is that it just makes student visas "dual-intent". This would allow prospective students to get an F-1 visa without having to prove that they have no intention of staying back after completing their degree. It's an open secret that a large percentage of students actually want to work after graduating and many intend to naturalize eventually. This would spare them having to lie on the application. Other than this change, the bill does not do anything to make it easier for students.
• johnloeber 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just a proposal that has to get ratified by the House of Congress, right? It's noteworthy that Zoe Lofgren, the sponsor of this bill, has attempted to pass similar bills before, which were not successful. See e.g. https://www.us-immigration.com/blog/bill-fails-in-the-house-no-green-cards-for-stem-graduates https://www.us-immigration.com/blog/bill-fails-in-the-house-...
  • baytrailcat 10y ago
    That is right. Forget voting, this bill may not even go to the Committee. I am not sure if this worth all this hysteria. If it is proposed by a ranking Republican member of the House Judiciary Committee, we will know it is serious.
    • gregw2 10y ago
      Exec orders might be coming. https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Famp.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2F97240588%2F#pt0-505341 https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Famp.usat...
• douche 10y ago
  Sounds like this should have quite an impact on most of the companies that hire a lot of H1Bs. Out of the list below, only Apple is hitting that salary level with their average. (edit) http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx Also, damn, I knew TCS and Infosys were big, but I wasn't aware they were quite that big.
  • hocuspocus 10y ago
    Fixed link: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx The new bill will take "cash bonuses and similar compensation" into account. A rock bottom offer from FB/Google/... to new grads in the bay area is typically 160k.
    • lukeschlather 10y ago
      I don't believe it. Maybe if you add up all the initial grants, but those vest over 4 years but I would bet a rock-bottom offer to a new grad is more like $120k/year or even $100k/year. Still ample for an H1B (well, under other bills) but I suspect this will put significant upward pressure on salaries in the tech industry.
      • umanwizard 10y ago
        What's your source on those new grad numbers? My total comp was above $100k as a new grad at Amazon, and I think they pay less than Bay Area companies. Plus, that was three and a half years ago.
        • lukeschlather 10y ago
          Yeah, that sounds right. But $160k sounds super-high. I would be very surprised if a new grad at Amazon made more than $130k total compensation in the first year. Of course, the way the RSU vesting schedule works you would have a more-or-less guaranteed raise to $160k/year by your 3rd year or so, but $160k/year is not "rock-bottom" starting pay.
• caseymarquis 10y ago
  This makes sense from a distance. Such employees are supposed to be specialists, not hired for the purpose of undercutting wages. I'm not in the bay area, but if you're bringing in a specialist from another country because you can't find one here, this sounds like the sort of wage that person ought to have. Whether this restriction makes sense in the first place is a different question, but this does sound like it fits the spirit of the h1-b. I'd be curious to hear an opposing claim on this as I don't know a great deal about it and wonder if I'm missing something.
• wmccullough 10y ago
  lol I'm a senior engineer and I don't make that much annually :(
  • Clubber 10y ago
    You need to know your value. I don't know your ability, but you are probably being underpaid.
    • wmccullough 10y ago
      I agree, but I'll leave it at that since this is very public. However, I'd counter that the average Senior Engineer salary is 112k/year; according to Glass Door anyway. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,24.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/senior-software-engineer-...
      • fps 10y ago
        I can't say for certain why, but GlassDoor is significantly lower than reality for positions in my area (Boston, MA.) Of the jobs I see advertised for Senior developers, most of them are in the $140-$170K range these days. Assuming that glassdoor is accurate, perhaps the issue is that people who stay in positions more than a few years fall behind new hires because yearly raises don't keep up with market rates.
        • sjg007 10y ago
          That and as you get older with more responsibilities many people don't jump ship as often for higher wages. And the higher wage thing is a fairly recent (5-10 year) thing. We can thank Millenials and Vic investment pushing salaries up from bottom. That being said, if you want the money, try to find a 10x company winner take all in growth mode. Life is otherwise too short. Finance also pays well.
• readhn 10y ago
  Whoever is working on the bill is disconnected from reality and the damage it is doing long term here. Why's everyone so focused on IT? Everyone can learn how to code, it's not a real science.. Oh it's hacker news :) Now walk into any major university science department. See who the newly minted PhD students are in biology, chemistry, physics, math ... Most are foreigners. This bill will send them home after they graduate... USA will lose here and other countries win big time on people with great science backgrounds with brains who are willing to work and move the science forward. It will take decades for American educational system to change (if it ever changes) and generate the replacements.
  • sytelus 10y ago
    You are exactly right. Single minimum wage doesn't make any sense considering there is such a wide gap between IT and everything else. However keeping minimum wage to the 1989 level hurts H1B IT workers more because many of them literally end up getting just that even if they qualify for far more. I guess the issue is not solvable easily because to create job titles and assign it minimum wage number that is, say, at least 10% more than average current is herculean task in itself.
    • jackweirdy 10y ago
      Your point stands, I just wanted to note that the wage level was established in 1998, not 1989. There is a typo in this article, possibly misread from the bill summary https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sxs_and_analysis_-1-2017__final.pdf https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sx...
    • TheCoelacanth 10y ago
      If the demand for other types of workers isn't high enough to warrant that level of pay, why do they need to bring in foreign workers?
      • sytelus 10y ago
        Lower pay doesn't mean abundance. For example, professors for mathematics, theoretical physics, geology etc would be low paying job but its also hard to find people with great skills in these areas.
• ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  Here is the summary straight from the horses mouth: https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sxs_and_analysis_-1-2017__final.pdf https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sx... A few points: - This does not raise the salary requirement to $130k/yr. This only applies to employers that do not want to do the extra paper work for "attestations regarding recruitment and non-displacement of U.S. workers" - It takes a "market based" allocation strategy which allows "cash bonuses and similar compensation" to be included. This is a joke. - Startups and small businesses will get 20% of the visas. It'll be interesting to see how this is gamed - This does not fix the Corporate/Higher Ed partnership loophole - This does not fix the power imbalance between visa holders and employers I personally don't see this bill going anywhere. Zoe just needs to look like she is doing something.
  • lokithor 10y ago
    Yup. The fact that compensation is included, is useless. Companies give you unvested shares worth tonnes that take > 4 years to fully vest. The attrition rates are so high, the sweat shops can get away with it.
    • BhavdeepSethi 10y ago
      None of the sweat shops offer equity.
      • lokithor 10y ago
        Absolutely! I completely agree. But what stops the consultancies from doing this without actually ever letting it to fully vest?
      • webmaven 10y ago
        Well, that can change, especially if the "equity" is in a worthless employing subsidiary that never turns a profit or has a liquidity event.
    • masklinn 10y ago
      Startups offer equity, consulting companies don't. That would actually tend to favor startups as the equity they grant drives the "compensation" upwards despite it being monopoly money until the shares actually vest and assuming they're even worth printing at this point.
• lokithor 10y ago
  It'll be interesting to see if this takes effect on existing employees. Or only new applicants.
• thr1234567 10y ago
  This actually looks very reasonable.
• webmaven 10y ago
  This is a good but flawed move. In very high COL places like NYC and SFBA $130k is barely a living wage unless you can put up with a 2h commute. OTOH, in low COL markets (eg. KC) this eliminates H1-Bs from consideration for most entry-level positions. For many markets in the middle (an example doesn't come to mind, perhaps Los Angeles?) where $130k+ is a decent salary for an entry-level position this new minimum works. What's really needed to make H1-B work on a national scale for a broad range of professions while still limiting abuse is something like a COL adjustment, or scaling the minimum with some formula like 75% of the median salary, or the 30th percentile, or something similar. Edited to add: I am assuming that no more than 30% of your salary is spent on rent, you save 10% of your salary, that you are working in downtown San Francisco, that your commute is under 30m door to door via public transportation, and you live in a 2-bedroom apartment. Also: https://smartasset.com/mortgage/what-is-the-cost-of-living-in-san-francisco https://smartasset.com/mortgage/what-is-the-cost-of-living-i...
  • thr1234567 10y ago
    > NYC and SFBA $130k Really ? Surely it can't be that expensive ?
    • aianus 10y ago
      It's not. Maybe he's assuming a stay at home wife and/or children which would be a stretch on $130k, it's true. You can live well and have savings as a single guy on $130k in both those areas.
      • thr1234567 10y ago
        How do the non-tech denizens manage ? I thought waitresses (and people in similar low-skilled jobs) barely made $30k ?
        • j_r_f 10y ago
          Yeah 130k being barely a living wage is an absurd thing to say. Tons and tons of people in NYC do not make 130k — even half of it would be a great salary for most — and they seem to still be living just fine.
• reacharavindh 10y ago
  Isn't this discriminatory on states with lower cost of living? 130k is not very high in Bay area for big companies and non entry level engineers.. However, at emerging cities in the US, that may be unattainable until say director positions for now.. So government powers more immigration and bias to CA at the cost of other cities developing cities? (Disclaimer) H1B from big co in the east coast, senior SE making 110k. Will make > 130k if bonus and stock compensation could be included though.
  • perseusprime11 10y ago
    I don't think we as a country have figured out cost of living adjustments to compensation and taxes in general. I know first hand that there are certain jobs that pay you very similarly no matter where you are. So the guy in NYC pays more in taxes and cost of living while the gal in Texas saves a lot more especially with no state income tax, low property taxes, and lower cost of living.
    • reacharavindh 10y ago
      I agree. Thinking about it, I made a conscious choice to stay at my current job in the east coast for this reason. (Nett money I could save was higher even with a lower pay than bay area). But, the impact of such variation only contributed to some decisions like mine, but not viability of jobs. I wonder what impact having access to viable H1B labor force would do for CA and expensive cities vs rest of the US.
    • marcosdumay 10y ago
      > I don't think we as a country have figured out cost of living adjustments to compensation and taxes in general. I'm not sure you should. There's a reason for the cost of living to change so much from one region to another, and compensating that change with government money can have severe economic impacts.
      • perseusprime11 10y ago
        Aren't we already compensating by virtue of tax deductions at federal level and allowing certain states to not tax income?
• gregw2 10y ago
  I think the existing system foments a covert lie-rewarding fear-inducing form of indentured servitude and depresses native nonmanagerial salaries of actual programmers. I was told early in my career by at least two CEOs that I shouldn't waste my time doing programming (and should join the managerial class) because it would be done overseas or by low cost labor onshore. I do think it's a bummer for those hoping to move/live here from overseas and may slightly reduce US tech industry competitiveness, but it looks to me to be a removal of a capital-favoring wage-surpressing distortionary loophole in our immigration policy that at the end of the day is probably a good thing.
• perseusprime11 10y ago
  FYI. The executive order may not be same as this bill.
• matt_s 10y ago
  Really what they need to change are the accounting loopholes. When I was working at a large employer most of the offshored work was under 'services contracts' where the legal wordings were such that it looks like services are being rendered for a specific purpose. This is to avoid having those people show up as labor on a P&L which affects the corprate bottom line. What actually happens is behind these agreements are a team of people with an onshore presence and the actual employees overseeing the on/offshore work prefer to work with the same set of people. Once you get a team and rhythm going on work, it made things easier to predict. So both sides want to game this 'services contract' to have the same team for literally years. If they make corporations count all of the on/offshore people as contractual labor in their accounting practices, which is what they actually are, then companies will be hit negatively in their P&L statements. These are essentially jobs which used to be done onshore so they certainly weren't 'talent can't be found' types of roles.
  • koolba 10y ago
    Contractual labor is a service. If it wasn't, it'd be employment. Both show up the same way on a P&L statement; they're both expenses. It's all the additional regulation and requirements for employment (healthcare coverage, disability insurance, termination protection) that companies want to avoid by hiring contractors.
• itshoptx 10y ago
  This increase in salary is not for the H1-B workers benefit; rather, it's to make hiring them more expensive so American workers will be considered first--as they should be. I would support any law that REQUIRED American companies to hire Americans first and then consider foreigners ONLY if no qualified Americans can be found in the 50 US states. If America wants to do good by her workers, she needs to put Americans first. Always and foremost. Let India, Vietnam, and China take care of their own people first. H1-B visas have always been bad for American workers. And they always will be. I would raise the minimum to $250k, were it me. Very few companies will pony up the currency to play that game. If companies were to hire Americans again FIRST, as they should have been doing, perhaps American primary and secondary schools as well as universities would have stronger STEM programs. No one is going to suggest STEM to their children if they have to compete with foreigners. On H1-B and desire to immigrate here... I'm not opposed to immigration if it's done the old fashioned way like my dad did it. Come here, apply, wait your tenure for green card, and eventual citizenship. Don't come here for an American passport, come here because you want to be an American.
  • agumonkey 10y ago
    I had this discussion with a French guy who calls for similar policies there. I'm a bit surprised that homeland companies hiring foreign workers for cost reasons aren't seen as damaging thus justifying that kind of policies.
    • itshoptx 10y ago
      I'm also surprised. We shall see...
  • umanwizard 10y ago
    The reason top companies (FB, Google, major SV startups, etc.) exist primarily in the US is because the US is able to attract talent from all over the world. If these companies had never been able to hire the best people, there wouldn't now be the same companies hiring more Americans. They would simply exist in other countries, instead of the United States. By the way, I work at one of these companies and have had frank discussions about compensation with many of my coworkers and I can guarantee you that H1-B holders are NOT being paid less than Americans. Obviously none of this applies to body shops like Infosys and Tata. > On immigrating here... I'm not opposed to immigration if it's done the old fashioned way like my dad did it. Come here, apply, wait your tenure for green card, and eventual citizenship. This suggests to me that you don't actually know what an H1-B visa is. Getting an H1-B is the first step to coming here, waiting for green card, etc. How else do you propose people do it? Out of curiosity, what papers did your dad have that allowed him to come?
• xtreme 10y ago
  One problem with a very high minimum salary is that due to the disparity in cost of living, only companies that could afford H1B workers would be from a few cities like SF and NYC. As a side effect, it would increase the diversity of those cities and not anywhere else. I don't think it is ideal - it concentrates immigrants into a small location; and does not allow immigrants to live in a place of their choice.
  • jupp0r 10y ago
    I think you are mixing up cause and effect - it's not easier from a financial standpoint for companies in NY to pay high salaries, it just happens that companies who can afford high salaries are located there because it's easier to get top talent at those locations.
• deskamess 10y ago
  " Providing employment and travel authorization to those with approved employment-based petitions awaiting visa availability, so they have similar protections to those provided portability under the American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act " What exactly does this mean? Can people with approved petitions move freely between employers without redoing a labor cert?
• sjg007 10y ago
  Here's a question. Two people in same job with similar performance one is h1b the other a us citizen. Layoffs are coming. Who gets cut?
  • ryan0318 10y ago
    Well with HR point of view, US citizen gets cut. Not just in this scenario my friend. I am in this business(recruitment). Let me give you another tough scenario (forget H1b). Two people in same job with similar performance one is US citizen who is contracting and while other is US citizen who is full time with company. As we know the contractor salary is very high.Layoffs are coming, But still HR will fire full time US citizen who is getting less pay because to fire a full time employee we need to wait till next lay offs or provide a big reason to fire him. While on other hand you can fire Contractor any time without any formalities. My point is if you want to abuse H1b program you will abuse it no matter what. It all depends on work culture(HR) of a COMPANY.
• Zigurd 10y ago
  There are some good ideas in this, but not enough. While not everyone will share this view, it seems like most people agree visas for highly-paid, high-value R&D workers are good, and filling up body shops with seatwarmers is not good. The question is: How to make H1-B unattractive to body shops? A high minimum salary is definitely one way to do it, but, as another commenter pointed out, there remain loopholes. Another way would be to auction H1-Bs, with a high minimum bid. Another would be to prioritize positions that are not contract-labor positions. If it works right, and expands the tech industry, it should be possible to implement the supposed intent of H1-B-to get people into the country that we don't have. But, unless the barriers are financial, they will get lawyered into nullity.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• trollpan2 10y ago
  This is a blatant hypocrisy on American side. They will sue the shit out of Indian Solar, Pharma, Angri industries if it has competitive prices but won't allow india/emerging nations to do the same in their market. Emerging nations are bullied by developed nations for a long time and the saga goes on. I get that H1b visa was used to provide cheap services but globalization works both way. Powerful nations can't just enact the laws which only works in their favor.
  • alextheparrot 10y ago
    I think we've seen throughout history that what you listed above is largely possible for powerful nations. It is a "benefit" of being a powerful nation to express that power. This is much more an optimization problem than a logical debate.
  • Dylan16807 10y ago
    I don't understand your claim of hypocrisy. What is America saying is bad, but also doing? And what suing are you talking about?
    • trollpan2 10y ago
      Basically USA has long history of suing Indian companies which competes with their product in Indian market.Some examples.. (1) The US Said India's Solar Power Plan Discriminates Against American Companies — And the WTO Agrees - https://news.vice.com/article/the-us-said-indias-solar-power-plan-discriminates-against-american-companies-and-the-wto-agrees https://news.vice.com/article/the-us-said-indias-solar-power... (2) Indian pharma companies legally trying to make cheap generic version. Nope, big boss USA doesn't like it because it is against 'globalization'. Pfizer Inc. (PFE) Keeps Suing Generics Makers In India http://www.ibtimes.com/pfizer-inc-pfe-keeps-suing-generics-makers-india-even-though-its-hopeless-legal-1374655 http://www.ibtimes.com/pfizer-inc-pfe-keeps-suing-generics-m... and the list goes on. But when Indian companies tries to compete in the market by providing cheap services, Nope. Sorry, Can't do. Basically the post world war II history is all about enacting the laws to the maintain the hegemony of selected few elite countries. S. Korea and Japan were lucky in that regards as sympathy of west was on their side but emerging countries like China, India and Brazil are screwed.
• dandare 10y ago
  A quick calculation: $60,000 in 1989 adjusted for inflation equals $116,132.42 in 2016. This changes the narative a lot.
  • gravypod 10y ago
    I don't see how. Can you please elaborate?
    • jbmorgado 10y ago
      Seen this way it only updates the salary requirement to accompany inflation, so you are actually just putting it like it already was during the beginning of the 90's.
      • phonon 10y ago
        Benefit costs have increased much more than the rate of inflation though.
  • trollpan2 10y ago
    Well inflation may have increased but as per pew research wages are stagnated for decades (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-wor...) . In that narrative, this increase is unfair to companies outside of SF/NYC area and also unfair to students who came to USA for studies.
  • webmaven 10y ago
    Rather than adjusting for inflation, try adjusting for productivity instead: http://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ http://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
    • randyrand 10y ago
      The productivity gap is really an economics understanding gap. The whole idea is that when productivity goes up, prices go down! To suggest wages should go up when productivity goes up is a complete misunderstanding of economics. It's stupid. You only need one! Prices going down is how the free market adjust for productivity. If they wanted to make a fair comparison, chart a graph between productivity and the cost to buy a basket of goods in real money. You'll find wages have gone up! Roughly the rate of GDP growth per year! Shocking!!! /s
• giis 10y ago
  I never visited U.S and heard about H1-B and its abuse by Indian Body-shops. Let me know if below understanding is correct or not: 1) So far, Indian Body-shops paid low salary compared to original one. (for example, say instead of 80K/yr ,Indian Body-shops paid 40K/yr and kept the remaining for themselves) 2) Now with new bill, increased base amount to 130K/yr and also ensures this goes the employee? Is that correct?
  • gregw2 10y ago
    Yes, Indian body shops have charged high fees >80k while not even remitting even close to the 60k back to the employee. I have witnessed this. I have also witnessed employers rescuing people from such body shops by hiring them for 60k on h1b for jobs that could absolutely be done by a u.s. citizen (web programming) and keeping their salary at 60k for many years despite growing skill. The system is broken and abused... unless you are the employer trying to work the angles to pay less. Regarding question 2, it does bump up the $ amount but I am not sure it protects the worker any more than currently. Also other posters indicate the proposed 130k only applies to a subset of h1bs for whom less paperwork is filed, so i'm frankly not sure it goes far enough.
    • giis 10y ago
      Thanks for the details. imo, this will have more impact on Indian body shops profit and shareholders more than affecting employee's and that's why greedy IT companies are more upset. Its good for U.S IT professionals, since hopefully it will end discrimination based on low-pay. Good for India's IT professionals, because they need to prove their worth based on technical skills and not just cheap labor. I also hope visa interview system get more technical (i assume its not technical atm)- instead of getting interviewed by someone with-in the company, candidates need to be evaluated by independent third party to allow only right candidates.
• cobookman 10y ago
  Looking at the following database of h1b salaries: http://h1bdata.info/highestpaidcompany.php http://h1bdata.info/highestpaidcompany.php It seems like only 63 companies have an average salary above 130k and 1937 companies have average salaries below 130k. With only 11641 H1b's being at companies with an average salary above 130k and 476425 below the cap. So this is going to free up a bunch of h1b's at the top end of the sepctrum.
  • ScalaFan 10y ago
    There are at least four stakeholders in this situation: 1. The American company that wants to save money 2. The Middleman (e.g. Wipro etc) that wants to make money on the wage arbitrage 3. The foreign worker on the H1B 4. The American citizen that doesn't want to be replaced by the foreign worker I'm all for cutting out (2) and making it easier for the foreign worker (provided they have the skills) to become an American and not beholden to (2). However, I don't like the American companies saving money on the backs of American employees losing their jobs. How to balance everything is the tough question.
    • NotSammyHagar 10y ago
      Yes, #4 is the first problem to handle. I have this idea there's at least a dual world here. (a) IT workers that get replaced by H1Bs and are often asked to train their replacements (more operations and putting things together), (b) big software co that writes handmade software, like Microsoft, Amazon, Google, a startup. It's category (a) where people lose jobs and can't find them, because they are more easily replaced? It's category (a) that needs protection, for cateagory (b) we need way more workers. I just heard today that seattle has 11,000 open software jobs. 11k is a lot of jobs.
      • umanwizard 10y ago
        A lot of people don't understand this concept. People even apply it on a more local level, like "why don't Amazon and MS hire more UW grads instead of bringing in transplants from all over the country?" Amazon could hire 50% of UW CS grads and MS the other 50% and it wouldn't be enough to fill their needs.
• ryan0318 10y ago
  Well I think $130k/year is unfair for companies located outside of california, Newyork, MA, Chicago. I think this bill would benefit companies in those locations where cost of living is very high. What about a company in North Dakota or west Virginia. I don't think any company can afford 130k/year in these states, rather they will outsource their jobs(paying 30% tax). I think salary limit should be set based on the state and it should be set as-least 110k/year for other states where cost of living is very low. Well I think This bill is introduced by democrat to help his state.
  • jupp0r 10y ago
    What makes you think that it's easier for a company in CA to afford 130k salaries? Costs are even higher there, also for companies. It's rather the other way around - companies paying those salaries are located in CA, NY, etc.
• ryan0318 10y ago
  Well I think $130k/year is unfair for companies located outside of california, Newyork, MA, Chicago. I think this bill would benefit companies in those locations where cost of living is very high. What about a company in North Dakota or west Virginia. I don't think any company can afford 130k/year in these states, rather they will outsource their jobs(paying 30% tax). I think salary limit should be set based on the state and it should be set as-least 110k/year for other states where cost of living is very low. Well I think This bill is introduced by democrat to help his state.
• Vampires123433 10y ago
  Fixing the F1 visa loophole will also reduce tuition costs for American students. It's simple supply/demand micro-economics.
  • wdcgu 10y ago
    This is absurd. Most F1 students pay full tuition in the state and private colleges, whereas Americans are eligible for need base aid. F1 students are effectively subsidizing American students.
• DiamondDiamond 10y ago
  It seems like, in future, most jobs above 130k will go to Non American workers and on the other hand the american workers will be left with low paying jobs (that is under 130K) or American worker < $130K jobs Non American Workers > $130k I would not support such a bill.
  • Dylan16807 10y ago
    What, you think companies are going to hire non-Americans for a higher price just for the fun of it?
• DiamondDiamond 10y ago
  It seems like, in future, most jobs above 130k will go to Non American workers and on the other hand the american workers will be left with low paying jobs (that is under 130K) or American worker < $130K jobs Non American Workers > $130k I would not support such a bill.
• DiamondDiamond 10y ago
  It seems like, in future, most jobs above 130k will go to Non American workers and on the other hand the american workers will be left with low paying jobs (that is under 130K) or American worker < $130K jobs Non American Workers > $130k I would not support such a bill.
• hedora 10y ago
  The simplest way to fix this program is to let H1-B holders freely switch jobs.
  • kinkrtyavimoodh 10y ago
    They already can, in the current system.
    • hedora 10y ago
      They have to reapply through their new employer. The applications can fail.
• ksajadi 10y ago
  A Bill? Can we not just decree this down with an Executive Order or something?
• ksajadi 10y ago
  A Bill? Can we not just decree this down with an Executive Order or something?
• trustfundbaby 10y ago
  Well intentioned but misses the mark. If this had been in place when I came to the US, me and many of my friends (petroleum, chemical, electrical and software engineers and possibly nurses, doctors, anesthesiologists and doctors) would have had to have left the US after getting STEM degrees here. Instead of this, just ban skilled immigration to the US and be upfront about not wanting immigrant skilled labor. Everyone will understand. It's your country. However, if you want to fix the problem, however, let h1b workers move companies as freely as green card holders without having to "transfer" the visa from company to company, and let holders apply for a green card on their own after a year or two. Simple. Solves the supply problem and balances the relationship between the employer and h1b holder to more closely match a normal employment relationship, not one where they hold all the cards and can literally decide your fate at a moments notice, forcing you to work for lower wages just so they can maybe .. eventually ... sponsor your green card or make you do more work than you should for the same reason.
• didibus 10y ago
  Is the a data on why skilled immigrants on H1-B accept lower wages?
  • raitom 10y ago
    Still better than staying in their shitty country + hope to become a US citizen one day.
    • sameAsYou 10y ago
      exactly. they have the similar aspirations that forefathers/mothers of most-of-the-americans had.
    • didibus 10y ago
      Maybe for some, but I'm working in the US because of the higher wages only. And I'd probably hustle my way to a even higher salary if I could compete by freely switching job. So I was curious if there's data around that. It seems to me more like the natural balance of offer and demand with H1B is broken, as an employer can get high skilled workers, and then lock them in for multiple years without needing to compete salary wise anymore. I think there's a lot more H1B workers who are attracted to working in the US because of those high wages and not because they want to flee their shitty country. High skilled workers are not refugees. They could go to Canada or any other western country, but they flock to the US if they can because of the high salaries. So my point is, I don't think it's that they accept a lower wage, the wage offered to them is the highest they can get, it's more then in any other country. The issue seems to be that the H1B artificially lower the American wages, by not giving fare market competition on recruiting, which caps out salaries for H1B workers. If that wasn't the case, the H1B workers might even boost salaries, if companies tried to compete even more aggressively for the highest skilled.
• chintanshah24 10y ago
  The clause about Master's exemption. What does that mean?
• amluto 10y ago
  I think this is the entirely wrong solution because it misunderstands the problem. The problem isn't that the H1B requirements are off a bit. The problem is that H1B visa holders are essentially indentured servants. Say you're a foreigner who applies for an H1B job. Your employer does a bunch of paperwork, gets you an H1B visa, and imports you. Now you can't quit because you can't get a new job. Of course you get underpaid, and of course companies love their H1B workers. The US should scrap the whole system and replace it with some kind of merit- or point-based visa system for skilled foreigners. The replacement system should have portable visas so that the foreigners aren't inherently cheaper to employ than citizens, permanent residents, and holders of less broken visas. (Frankly, I agree a bit with the anti-immigrant save-our-job perspective right now. Citizens, permanent residents, etc do have an unfair disadvantage to H1B workers because of the broken structure of the H1B visa.)
  • Steeeve 10y ago
    > The problem is that H1B visa holders are essentially indentured servants. Say you're a foreigner who applies for an H1B job. Your employer does a bunch of paperwork, gets you an H1B visa, and imports you. Now you can't quit because you can't get a new job. Of course you get underpaid, and of course companies love their H1B workers. Actually, the program dictates that people are paid above prevailing wage for their position. But... people get miscategorized all the time. And they also get into big company loans from contractors like TCS for their travel to the US that they couldn't hope to pay without continued employment through them. They also get into bad contracts that include substantial financial penalties for leaving. And just because a company in the US is paying above prevailing wage, that doesn't mean that the employee doing the work is getting it. All of that leads to an environment that is very disappointing. I do agree that doubling the salary requirement will not fix the real problems, but I don't see it as a problem either. If anything, people close to the edge will end up with a pay bump.
  • nathanvanfleet 10y ago
    Is it better to be TN?
    • 10y ago
• tn13 10y ago
  How can an Indian or Chinese immigrate to USA under the current system? Legally there is simply no way besides marriage. These people who are actually very skilled have a very good history of assimilating in the mainstream and being successful in USA are discriminated against. As a student you have to lie that you will return to India, as a H1B you have to lie that you intend to return back. As H4 you have to sit quietly at home like an obedient biblical wife. At the root of H1B is the a deep systemic hatred and racism against Asians.
  • yangchi 10y ago
    the 130K cut only applies to H1 dependent employers: those company that has at least 15% H1 employees. So this pretty much means, if you are not in tech, most likely you won't be affected, as your employer most likely won't have 15% H1 employees. If you are in tech, and is in one of thoes legit tech companies, most likely you are also covered, as you will make 130K. Your employers may need to be a bit smart when it comes to meeting the cut, e.g., it may need to reduce some of your RSUs/EFTTs and put them into your salary. But you should make it. The new proposal doesn't say much about H4s. But I didn't really read much details of the new proposal. As of today, H4s can have EAD if their H1 spouses apply green card and get i-140 approved. At the root, we have this new proposal today exactly because Indian companies try to abuse the current H1 system. I know stories of both Chinese and Indians got effed up by the H1 system, real stories from real friends in my life, including my wife. I blame Indian outsourcing companies as much as I blame the system, to be honest. As a student, on F1 visa, if your intention is to stay, honestly you shouldn't get the F1 visa in the first place. If you have to lie about this intention to DHS, that's your own problem. H1, on the other hand, is a dual-intention visa. So you don't need to lie about stay or return. That's why H1s are allowed to apply green card.
    • tn13 10y ago
      > So you don't need to lie about stay or return. Dual intent does not mean you can tell the visa officer you will request the employer to also sponsor green card. That will most certainly get your visa rejected.
• lcfcjs 10y ago
  This is not a "good move" I don't care what you republicans think. Foreign Students graduate from American universities and then will leave the US. Highly skilled graduates are what we need in this country. We already too many of you conservatives that are too ignorant to be liberal.
• wdcgu 10y ago
  I love the blatant racism of HN. Everyone loves to rip on the H1-B, which is predominantly used by Indians, but no one seems to give a shit about the TN visa. Aren't those Canadians stealing your precious American jobs too?
  • grzm 10y ago
    I love the blatant racism of HN. Please don't generalize about the HN community in this way, particularly as you choose to be part of it.
    • wdcgu 10y ago
      Find me a few threads ripping on those Canadians stealing American jobs and driving down American wages. Or perhaps a few threads criticizing the TN visa, because American jobs are for Americans. Do that and I'll stand corrected.
    • uyirwe89 10y ago
      why? Do you get kicked in the balls?
• pastefka 10y ago
  Just to add to the conversation: recently, I analyzed some of the H-1B data and concluded that if you want to get an H-1B visa, you should get your visa certified in March via Indian outsourcing companies that are located in New York City, hire programmer analysts, pay out a base salary above $75,000. You can find the article here: https://www.datacamp.com/community/blog/data-h1b-visa https://www.datacamp.com/community/blog/data-h1b-visa .
• general_ai 10y ago
  Rumor is, Trump will issue a EO that is much smarter than this bill. In particular it's supposed to replace the lottery system with a priority queue, in which priority will be determined by salary. Combined with a cap, this will lead the system to letting only the most expensive workers through. Not ideal, but better than any alternative I have heard of so far.
• oarla 10y ago
  Does this affect existing H1B visa holders working in USA?
• yoloboy 10y ago
  I think this is going to drive more jobs out of US. Corporations will seek out opening new off-shore offices, in Asia, Canada and EU. This doesn't change the fact that we don't produce enough skilled workers to meet our demands. And in Trump's America it's not going to get any better. Not all speciality occupations pay as high as tech, and it's going to affect them 'biggly'. Immigrant hate is what this is cultivating.
  • jetru 10y ago
    This is a Democrat proposal
• known 10y ago
  TL;DR We'll give H1B visa to Linus/Einstein;
• tn13 10y ago
  Why do these bills make so much noise ? Isn't it the case that any senator, congressman can introduce the bill they want ? Shouldn't we take them seriously only after they have passed committee review ? This is probably 4th such bill in last 2 weeks I suppose. This bill has even affected stock markets in India!
• omouse 10y ago
  AWESOME
• comments_db 10y ago
  Bodyshops like Infosys, TCS and Wipro should be banned or heavily regulated from exploiting the H1B visa. I don't support them. They don't help anyone but the shareholders of the companies. Americans, Indians, Chinese, Govt. and Startups are equally screwed. 'Best and the Brightest' arguments can't be on the same line as $60,000 annual compensation premise. I'm not against people earning a better living. But it's not so complicated to see that something is broken here. Me - East Indian on H1B visa with both degrees from reputed US schools (full ride). Multiple patents and publications. Left leaning. 6+ corp experience and 3+ startup exp.
• mavelikara 10y ago
  While TCS, Infosys etc figure prominently in the H-1B debate, I think this new bill does not affect them as much as it is made out to be. The real downside is for staffing firms (popularly known as "desi consulting shops"), mostly run by Indian-Americans. TCS employs 370K+ employees worldwide and had revenue of $16B+ in 2016. They might have gotten 3K H-1Bs each year. If they know how to run projects staffing 370K employees with 3K H-1Bs per year, they will figure out a way to run it with 500. Also, with that kind of revenue, they will pay the $130K if it comes to that. H-1Bs, I suspect, have a power law distribution. TCS, Infosys etc top the list of H-1B visas per year, but there is a long tail of companies which get allotted few visas every year. Some of these in the long tail are high tech firms in real need of skill and are the ones paying appropriately for it (AmaFaceGoodSoft etc). But I think the larger cohort are the staffing shops which bend the rules often and pay low.
• randyrand 10y ago
  This is only $13,000 more than $60,000 in 1989 inflation adjusted to 2016 - $116,132. (1989 is the year this minimum wage was mandated). Assuming the past law was reasonable, this increase also seems reasonable.
• capkutay 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong but if this is proposed by a democratic congresswoman, isn't it unlikely to go into effect versus what I assume would be a more aggressive reform by the Republican party?
• zaidf 10y ago
  This is such no-brainer reform. I really hope the Valley comes together and crushes the H1-Bs used up by employees of Wipro, Infosys etc. at the expense of much more exceptional people employed by amazon, google etc.
• cryptozeus 10y ago
  For all those worried about their job, just remember this is just a bill that was introduced. It takes around 200 days for bill to pass and become a law. Also 96% of the bills die during the process. https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-pass-a-bill-in-the-US https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-pass-a-bill-i...
• xiaoma 10y ago
  >"The raised salary level - to more than $130,000 - is more than double the current H-1B minimum wage of $60,000, which was established in 1989 and has since remained unchanged." This is interesting. Adjusting for inflation, $60K in 1989 is worth 117K in today's dollars. This adjustment is essentially just a compensation for inflation.
• TheSageMage 10y ago
  Draft text of the bill: https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sxs_and_analysis_-1-2017__final.pdf https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sx...
• sparky_ 10y ago
  Is this in fact the same H-1B bill that is likely to pass congress and the President's signature? I ask as the sponsor of the bill, Rep. Lofgren, is the (Democratic) congresswoman for downtown San Jose.
• davvolun 10y ago
  Completely unrelated. Having never viewed India Times' website before, can I say, I really like their method of pulling in infographics and backing up their statements. I'd like to see a lot more of that in the States.
• mizchief2 10y ago
  I'm more interested in enforcing the law we have like when compaines publicly announce that they are laying off their US workers to hire H1-B's which is a direct violation.
• jestinjoy1 10y ago
  Question from an Indian: In India, this bill is projected as a move by Trump to limit otsiders getting IT job in US. But this bill is moved by a democrat who also moved a bill against travel ban! What can I infer from this?
• tinalee 10y ago
  How about H1-B cap-exempt candidates, professors, doctors and etc...?
• tinalee 10y ago
  How about H1-B cap-exempt candidates, professors, doctors and etc...?