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Micro-Dosing: The Drug Habit Your Boss Is Gonna Love
- tedmiston 10y agoHas anyone actually tried Nootrobox?
- Clubber 10y agoI think this is even more absurd than steroids. At least with steroids you're risking your health for your own benefit. With this stuff, you're risking your health for someone else's profit margin. Hey, as if willingly working 60 hours a week for no more pay wasn't bad enough. When are we gonna stop being suckers?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- smallnamespace 10y agoThe article claims a lot of the users are tech execs. Makes more sense to work hard if more (or most) of your labour is going to end up in your own pocket.
- pizza 10y agoI mean, it would be hard to argue that working 60+ hrs a week isn't also a health risk for someone else's profit margin. But to be fair, I think that the self-assessment of increased productivity is a secondary explanation to why workers like their caffeine, nicotine, the various other popular stimulants, and now the panoply that is the archipelago of nootropics communities (oh yeah, and more research chems than you can shake a stick at).
- Johnny555 10y agoSuccessful athletes get both personal recognition plus symbolic and monetary rewards for their talents. Successful workers get both personal recognition plus symbolic and monetary rewards for their talents. Some athletes are motivated to be better and better at their sport. Some workers are motivated to be better and better at their job. Isn't that the same motivations?
- rodgerd 10y agoSome athletes do. Others just end up with CTE or a liver the consistency of polystyrene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_M%C3%BCnzer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_M%C3%BCnzer).
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jimbokun 10y agoThe connection between hard work and higher pay is dwindling. More and more profits and revenues just go to the owners of the equity. So yes, if you do not have a lot of equity at stake, past a certain point working harder definitely can make you a sucker in many cases.
- Johnny555 10y agoSure, but if all of your coworkers are surpassing you because they are using performance enhancing drugs and you're not, then you're under pressure to do the same just to keep up, otherwise you run the risk of losing your job. Which is the situation that many athletes find themselves in.
- acetoxy 10y agoIf you're feeling pressured into doing drugs at work, maybe then you should find another job anyways.
- pharrlax 10y ago>you're risking your health Really? How so? What health risks come with microdosing LSD? Are they comparable to the health risks of Adderall? Or nicotine? Or even caffeine? >Of the 20 drugs ranked harm to individual and societal harm by David Nutt, LSD was third to last, approximately 10 times less harmful than alcohol. The most significant adverse effect was impairment of mental functioning while intoxicated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adv...
- smallnamespace 10y agoThe risks seem to be of a different and rather less tolerable form though: "Review studies suggest that LSD likely plays a role in precipitating the onset of acute psychosis in previously healthy individuals with an increased likelihood in individuals who have a family history of schizophrenia." Like, being mentally fine, then taking LSD and having that precipitate acute psychosis seems like a rather terrible downside tail risk, even if it's statistically very rare.
- AstralStorm 10y agoAcute psychosis isn't even that bad, though it could damage career irreparably. The more important side effect are sudden personality changes which cam happen after any number of doses. Microdosing is supposedly safer but data is still extremely scarce.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- anexprogrammer 10y agoI find it odd in pointing out health risks and citing David Nutt's study[0] you don't mention the #1 damaging drug - alcohol. [0] http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_caus...
- flukus 10y ago> With this stuff, you're risking your health for someone else's profit margin. Presumably you'd be compensated for it, although that presumption rarely works out in the real world.
- sean_patel 10y agoI've have been with mild adult ADHD and it interferes with my programming and getting "in flow" moments. I noticed if I do a certain strain of Sativa, it helps me, but I don't want to smoke as it hurts my lungs. So, 2 serious questions. 1) How do I get my hands on this micro-dose thingy in San Francisco 2) Is it illegal, i.e. could I get arrested if found in possession of it? Thanks!
- bitexploder 10y agoHave you tried stimulants before? Adderall/Ritalin? For me, even at low doses the effect is pretty profound. If you genuinely have ADHD, no other solution has such profound effect (based on the research). Individual results vary, it is no miracle for all, but as a group, ADHD sufferers benefit greatly. It is low risk all around. If you manage it well the risk of addiction is very low. I think if you have not tried this path try it first. It just works for most ADHD sufferers.
- mistermann 10y agoI am recently having problems with procrastination, possibly depression (I imagine possibly in part due to lack of progress), etc - are these sorts of things symptoms of ADHD, or possibly something Adderall/Ritalin could help?
- pizza 10y agoSpeaking as a professional non-doctor, yeah maybe? It really is a thing that is only responsible to do under a doctor's supervision. But speaking as someone who has done a lot of both, both with and without supervision, they've made a tremendous difference. Having adderall is like turning on "responsible, task-completing adult" mode, and music becomes wonderful to listen to again, and my memory becomes sharper, and generally speaking it makes it fun to start my day. And yeah, cleaning and doing the dishes etc. becomes a complete non-issue Unfortunately, sometimes it also means being tooo exciting to do "relax efficiently"- think playing a video game for hours on end, or reading textbooks front-to-back from dusk till dawn. More or less, the same thing can be said for Ritalin. I've also experimented with 4F-MPH and 3-FPM, legally gray research chemicals that are similar to a more potent Ritalin and a more mild amphetamine, respectively.
- okayGwern 10y agoThis fad is all because of gwern's dipshit macroblog write up, isn't it?
- cwyers 10y agoI used to do a microdose of stimulants every hour or so while working. It was called "smoking cigarettes."
- costcopizza 10y agoI chuckled, but it is true. They do provide a nice burst of clarity and ideas for a brief moment...
- falcolas 10y agoBut is it the nicotine, or the fresh air and interruption?
- piva00 10y agoAs an ex-smoker: it is the nicotine. After I stopped smoking I still went with some of my former co-workers for their smoke breaks and had a coffee, it wasn't really the same "feeling".
- godmodus 10y agoMost likely nicotine and engaging your parasympathetic system by moving and firing up your indocrine system. Smoking + fresh air is a double negative in a way. It reduces your blood's ability to carry oxygen so you're technically hypo-oxiginated.
- 01847 10y agoStrange - I just saw something similar to this a few weeks ago, it looked like a workplace trying microdosing on their employees. At the time it seemed fake but now it makes me wonder: http://imgur.com/gallery/gYnnM http://imgur.com/gallery/gYnnM
- legodt 10y agoThat is clearly an industrial design student project taken out of context. The sketching is overly academic, the app screens are very much on-trend and designed to reflect as much narrative as possible, and those earpiece devices are clearly keyshot renders. I sincerely hope nobody is falling for this. I mean, look at those overly convenient context shots and storytelling visuals! Or those cheesy cliche poster fonts! The only thing missing is a user storyboard, but I don't doubt the student didn't include them because, well, they did fantastic work with those images of hypothetical end-user chemical charts. Projects of this scope are extremely common (take a gander around online portfolios), I never thought I would see somebody intentionally take one out of context to fool people into some sort of conspiracy theory.
- Arcanum-XIII 10y agoWould be fun when it will interact with medication or even simply pre existing condition. Some people will die, other will start having strange and potentially deadly behaviour toward coworker... love the idea.
- Mikeb85 10y agoDoing drugs at work is nothing new. In some industries, smoking weed is common, is others, people regularly do coke and other hard drugs. Ritalin and pharmaceuticals are common enough, and while LSD is popular among the tech community, again, nothing new. What will be interesting to see is real data to come out concerning the benefits.
- godmodus 10y agoAs someone who's worked as a bartender and have seen the inside of a big restaurant's kitchens... All I'll say is that you can definitely tell when Saturday's around. Cocain and methamphetamine use in the gastro industry is VERY common.
- ianbertolacci 10y agoWe already have a well established work place drug habit and its called caffeine, thankyouverymuch. Its also worth reading Hamiton Morris' position on micro-dosing[0] [0] https://twitter.com/HamiltonMorris/status/809124813256228865 https://twitter.com/HamiltonMorris/status/809124813256228865
- amelius 10y agoNot everybody responds to drugs in the same way. I hope these new products can be combined with genotyping services such as 23andme, to avoid bad outcomes.
- AstralStorm 10y agoAlso combined with governmental tracking so you can be branded a drug abuser forever?
- kabes 10y agoIsn't this highly related to the work you do? I'm a software engineer who's quite experienced with most drugs including LSD. I can't imagine LSD improving my work at all. And if I would need to take drugs to be good at my job, I'd just quit my job. Even the long-term effects of the most popular drugs are largely unkown (e.g. there's a lot of debate about the neurotoxicity of MDMA). Let alone all the lesser known drugs. These people who try to get 'more out of their brain' might just as well be totally ruining them.
- Johnny555 10y agoI think the point of the micro-dose is that it's not enough to make you feel high, just enough to have positive effects. So it's likely not the same effect you've experienced, unless you've experimented with micro-doses.
- kabes 10y agoDon't have experience with micro-doses. But any dose wears off. So at a certain point, you basically have a micro dose. But there's not a single point in the whole LSD experience that would make me a better engineer. Of course, it might for other people, although I seriously doubt it. Maybe in other fields (marketing, sales, etc).
- laxd 10y agoHave'nt tried microdosing. But when a full dose wears off, it would be natural to be a bit mentally exhausted from the trip so I can't imagine it's comparable to a microdose.
- acetoxy 10y agoExactly. 10µg and 100µg are very different. You don't trip from 10µg as you would from 100µg. You may feel a little bit more energetic, a little bit happier, conversations flow better etc... But it's all very subtle. From the article: > In fact, a common problem for new experimenters, according to Fadiman, is that people are used to feeling the effects of drugs, and a micro-dose of LSD can sometimes be less perceptible than a cup of coffee.
- tenpoundhammer 10y agoThis article is light on details and appears to be extrapolating a few specific cases of "bio-hacking" into a silicon valley wide trend, which then gets generalized to technologists. I bet the number of people actually doing the kind of experimenting mentioned in the piece is very low.
- md224 10y agoVery refreshing to see positive coverage of responsible psychedelic use. Just earlier today I was reading an interesting NYTimes article on Ayelet Waldman's use of microdosing to treat her mood issues: http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/style/microdosing-lsd-ayelet-waldman-michael-chabon-marriage.html http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/style/microdosing-lsd-ayel...
- adamcharnock 10y agoThe day psychedelics died. The idea of using this class of drugs to work longer and harder seems rather counter to the beliefs that originally brought them into the modern consciousness. If this is a trend then I feel it is tragic indeed, especially if spawned in California.
- Alex3917 10y ago> The idea of using this class of drugs to work longer and harder seems rather counter to the beliefs that originally brought them into the modern consciousness. For what it's worth, microdosing was popularized in the last few years by James Fadiman... Whose research in the 60s, which originally helped to popularize psychedelics, was on using them to improve work performance. Obviously this isn't what R. Gordon Wasson was using mushrooms for in the 50s or whatever, but the idea of using psychedelics for work purposes has been around for a while. I think the main thing that's changed is that, with the death of modernism, we've become more cynical about the ability of ideas and technology to improve the human condition.
- dromen 10y agoIf this helps LSD, MDMA, magic mushrooms and ketamine get into pharmacies, who am I to complain?
- jimbokun 10y ago"He studied biology and neurology at his desk every night until he fell asleep." Maybe he should have just tried getting a good night's sleep?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- fowlerpower 10y agoWhat's interesting about people who are willing to do anything to get ahead is they usually end up burning out like a flame that burned up too fast. I used to work out pretty heavily for years. Putting on real muscle in the gym is hard work and strength and muscle takes years to build up. There was always people that wanted the easy way or "an edge" there. In the professional world, where you would think people are smarter, you see the same mentality. Most of the people that used steroids on the gym ended up destroying the chemical make up of their bodies. They never produced the same amount of testosterone on their own anymore, there were all kinds of other side effects. Some had such terrible chemical imbalances they were never the same person anymore. I don't think this sort of thing is any different, these people are lying to themselves if they believe these things won't have any lasting effects. The kind of career you build all natural will last, just like the real muscle would in the gym. The muscle out on with roids would disappear soon after the roids are gone plus the side effects. The same will happen here believe me. Anyway, just my two cents.
- pharrlax 10y agoLSD is one of the safest drugs around, in terms of health effects, at recreational doses (let alone at microdoses). Unless there are some mystery side effects I'm not aware of, I'm not sure how your analogy makes any sense.
- hawkice 10y agoA single dose of LSD may be able to permanently change your personality [1], which is, as the abstract points out, essentially unheard of. This is perhaps one of the most psychoactive chemicals known to humankind, which certainly has long-lasting effects. That would be the mystery side effect you aren't aware of. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/
- omio 10y agoEven without steroids your body loses a lot of mass after you stop lifting heavy weights.
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y agoI'm reminded again of this passage, from Terry Pratchet's "The Carpet People": Pismire was the shaman, a kind of odd-job priest. Most tribes had one, although Pismire was different. For one thing, he washed all the bits that showed at least once every month. This was unusual. Other shamen tended to encourage dirt, taking the view that the grubbier, the more magical. And he didn't wear lots of feathers and bones, and he didn't talk like the other shamen in neighbouring tribes. Other shamen ate the yellow-spotted mushrooms that were found deep in the hair thickets and said things like: "Hiiiiya/iya/iheya! Heyaheyayahyah! Hngh! Hngh!" which certainly sounded magical. Pismire said things like, "Correct observation followed by meticulous deduction and the precise visualization of goals is vital to the success of any enterprise. Have you noticed the way the wild tromps always move around two days ahead of the sorath herds? Incidentally, don't eat the yellow-spotted mushrooms."