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Young hackers who have a surplus of income and have funds to spare that aren't being channeled toward debt / family / donations, heed me: save as much of your s
by jrheard 10y ago
Young hackers who have a surplus of income and have funds to spare that aren't being channeled toward debt / family / donations, heed me: save as much of your salary as you can, and put it in boring investments (index funds / etc), probably through vanguard.com (no affiliation, I just use them and have heard nothing but good things from people I trust). You can pretty easily set up your job's direct-deposit system so that a portion of your salary goes directly into your investments without you ever seeing it, it's a good set-it-and-forget-it system. It adds up over time!
[Somewhat related: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... ]
- yonibot 10y agoThis book taught me the fundamentals of passive investing (https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/0393330338 https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/03933...) and this website is THE online community for Bogle-style, passive investors (https://www.bogleheads.org/ https://www.bogleheads.org/), once you understand the basics.
- hackerboos 10y agoI read that book this year. The entire book can be summarised as. Don't attempt to beat the market. The market cannot be beat (many examples in the book). Invest in index funds long term which is the right mix of risk/reward for most people. It does have a chart in the back which tracks your age and situation. For example as you approach retirement you should start to liquidate your funds and buy government bonds so you aren't hit by a bad year when you have to start drawing on your investments. It did convince me. I opened accounts with Wealthsimple and Questrade the next day. A great site for fellow Canadians is http://canadiancouchpotato.com/ http://canadiancouchpotato.com/ - you can skip the book.
- late2part 10y agoWhy did you choose Wealthsimple and Questrade instead of Vanguard like a lot of people on bogleheads recommend?
- paviva 10y agoYou can't buy directly from Vanguard in Canada. Questrade is essentially a very low cost broker (low as in free for ETFs).
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- hobonumber1 10y agoYou can buy certain Vanguard Funds from Canada. For example: VAB, VSB, VCN.
- Huppie 10y agoI think you misunderstood the parent. All three examples are ETFs with Canadian assets, available on the Canadian stock exchange. OP's point is (most likely) that you can't buy them directly from Vanguard (i.e. using an account on www.vanguardcanada.ca) but will have to buy them using a broker (e.g. Questrade.)
- paviva 10y agoThanks Huppie, that's exactly what I was saying.
- qwrusz 10y agoThat's a great summary and advice! It's crazy there is this giant industry of overpaid people that exists only because people don't listen to that advice. Disclaimer: I work in said industry.
- Rainymood 10y ago>The market cannot be beat. I really would like to believe this, but please explain to me how then how firms like Renaissance can exist ... Not sure whether it's relevant but I'll add that I'm an economics PhD student.
- chei0iaV 10y agoTwo decades ago you might have asked how firms like Long-Term Capital Management can exist https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/LTCM.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/LTCM.png
- gragas 10y agoThat's a ridiculous argument. From that graph, LTCM lasted 4 years. Renaissance has lasted decades.
- qwrusz 10y agoThe market cannot be beat by 100% of amateurs piddling away on their brokerage account during a few spare hours a week. The market cannot be beat by 99.9% of professional investors spending all their time day and night trying and with a team of people helping them. I'm calling your bluff on you being an econ PhD student or maybe you have been one for a month or two at most...? If you are an econ grad student you know what RenTec is doing more or less. At least in theory if not specifics, people talk and there's plenty of econ papers explaining what's underneath major quant strategies. People need to chill bringing up RenTec when finance comes up (Buffett too). Just like they need to chill bringing up Facebook when talking about startup valuations. Outliers are outliers.
- jamez1 10y agoAcademia doesn't pay that much attention to the real world. Most of the papers out there are rubbish and would be considered junior level work, except with way too much detail. There are pretty much no econ papers that would describe what happens inside the high end systematic firms. (Source: I work in the industry) Bringing up the outliers is a perfect counterexample when wild sweeping statements are made. These are not even real outliers, they are valid samples. >The market cannot be beat by 99.9% of professional investors spending all their time day and night trying and with a team of people helping them. Professional investors pretty consistently beat the market. But not the ones that you see. The louder someone markets their fund, the more likely it is to be a scam. Your sample is of guys who heavily promote their fund and make money from management fees not performance. The best managers aren't even made visible to you. Why would you attract attention to what you're doing if you have a good thing going?
- module0000 10y agoThis is good advice, attempting to beat the market is something that everyone tries at least once, and repeats until they learn that it is futile. There are bigger interests than the "richest investor you know", and those interests will always win. Every single damn time. Instead, just follow them, and ride the wave.
- kieranr 10y agoHow are you finding Wealthsimple? Can't speak to the tool itself, but the site design and overall aesthetic looks gorgeous..
- jamez1 10y ago> The market cannot be beat On average, and when bench-marked against itself taking into account fees. There are funds that consistently beat the market, that you should put money into over the index if given the chance. But your general notion that the average person shouldn't try is a good one. At the end of the day you have to earn money because you took it from someone else. To think that there is a dollar for everyone is to ignore this simple truth.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- stouset 10y agoOf course some funds beat the market. The problem is, there is no reliable way to know what those funds are until after they have done so.
- jamez1 10y agoIt depends on your definition of reliability. Is driving a car reliable? There's no way of knowing it will crash but that doesn't stop you from getting in one. You see it as a problem, if you are used to the idea of earning money instead of taking money I get that angle. But to investors it's not a problem but a fact of life.
- sn9 10y agoRamit Sethi's I Will Teach You to be Rich is the personal finance book that introduced me to all the basics (e.g., paying off debts, how credit scores work, why not investing in index funds across diverse asset classes is moronic, etc.). Dead practical advice despite the somewhat sleazy writing style (see title of book).
- logicallee 10y agoHumanity has had numbers for some 200,000 years. any hacker can, in the next ten minutes, cause their CPU to do more arithmetic than the arithmetic (explicitly adding 2+5, and so forth, multiplying two numbers in their heads) that every single person has done in the history of humanity. okay, but that's just numbers. Today we live in a connected world where 2,000,000,000 people can be reached in any eight-hour period of time. Any hacker can find any niche and make a product that will be the first search result within it (by being the first; making something that doesn't exist; and telling people). Why save a salary, when you can create a business, create value, and scale to the entire Internet and give people some benefit? Every hacker should start one or several businesses. While it may not exactly be a moral obligation, this brings humanity forward. EDIT to clarify: I am disagreeing with the suggestion that hackers should save all or most of their money - (put in my parent comment as "save as much of your salary as you can") -- rather than saving it, they should invest it into their businesses, adwords to grow it, other advertising and business development expenses, hiring, etc.
- davidwihl 10y agoI'm all for entrepreneurship but the original question asked about passive income. Your suggestion is clearly very active.
- pc86 10y agoYes but why answer the question when you can get on a soapbox instead?
- logicallee 10y agoMy soapbox was prompted by the words, which I'm not embellishing, "save as much of your salary as you can". I don't think there's anything wrong with saving or with passive investments. But it shouldn't be as much as you can. Engineers have other very good uses of their money, which I outlined.
- fsloth 10y agoSome of us bring in value by developing existing software packages which amplify the work effort of some critical sector or another. The renumeration for this work is in the form of regular pay. A portion of which should probably be invested smartly. As software systems grow they turn into complex systems. They become embedded in the processes of the end users, while requiring constant boring work to remain alive. I fail to see how this maintenance work is less worthwhile than developing new tools. Any complex task requires decades and decades of labour. This is not to say that identifying niches that benefit from established tecnhinques and require only some domain specific customization would not also be wortwhile. But claiming "everybody should find such a niche and become entrepreneurs" is quite bit too much. My mental energy is used in my daily work which brings added value to my orgs and our clients. The benefits of this are enormous - I can focus on deep, technically complex work while outsourcing payroll, taxes, liabilities etc. to my employer. Effectively, I don't think many people can do deep work and become an entrepreneur at the same time. Also, expert skills in one domnain are no guarantee in some other. Star software engineers can turn up shit or stellar business operatives. I think you are covering the software engineer in some weird halo of infallibility. That said, I do have enormous respect for people who have created new businesses. But it hardly is the only way to bring in value.
- s3nnyy 10y agohttp://earlyretirementextreme.com/ http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ is a bit nicer to read and goes a bit deeper than mrmoneymustache.
- gajjanag 10y agoI would also add that the author's book http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ere-book http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ere-book is great, and lets one get the essential points of what he has to say without trawling through numerous posts.
- nkkollaw 10y agoWhat are the returns, in percentage?
- aninhumer 10y agoVanguard is index funds, so the returns are as good (or bad) as the market.
- nkkollaw 10y agoAverage..? Ex., 1%-5%/yr
- davidwihl 10y agoIt depends on the fund. I just did a report on this for one of my classes. https://github.com/wihl/stats107-project/blob/master/writeup.pdf https://github.com/wihl/stats107-project/blob/master/writeup... All the code is in the same repository as R Markdown.
- anthonyherron 10y agoMOOC or are you at Harvard? Was the course worthwhile?
- davidwihl 10y agoThrough the Extension school, all online. I found it worthwhile.
- lifeformed 10y ago7% in the long term, but with big fluctuations.
- nkkollaw 10y agoThanks.
- velcro 10y agoAny tips for something solid vanguard-like in the EU?
- ownagefool 10y agoRules are a bit different. I'm in the UK and you need £100,000 to go direct with Vanguard and thus you need to go with a broeker. https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ is a good shout, but there may be better depending on how you'd like to invest.
- martinko 10y agoI user interactive brokers and just buy VOO (vanguard S&P500 etf)
- czechdeveloper 10y agoYou can buy Vanguard via their ETF funds using any broker. I do. Just beware of taxes.
- ciaranm 10y agoNutmeg might be worth looking at. I've used it for my pension pot since I left my perm job and went contracting/freelance.
- EngineerBetter 10y agoI use Nutmeg, had a return of 7% over two years, and I've also just opened an account with MoneyFarm.
- ownagefool 10y agoNutmeg has a really nice looking website and is heavily promoted, but I'm not really sure it's a great recommendation as the associated fees are higher than competitors. Is there a value add that I'm missing?
- EngineerBetter 10y agoI use Nutmeg, had a return of 7% over two years, and I've also just opened an account with MoneyFarm.
- azatris 10y agoDo I have any rational expectations to beat inflation by having well diversified index funds?
- lorenzhs 10y agoHistorically, as a guideline, you'd have made about 7% p.a. on average, well above inflation. The question is whether you can handle the drawdown (can you keep your nerves during a crash?)
- mxschumacher 10y agothen again: beware of averages. Historical PE ratios are quite high (though EV/FCC would be more instructive) - so it is unlikely that the next couple of years will bring 7%. We're living in a world of free money: if central banks change interest rates the party could come to an end.
- xapata 10y agoNot necessarily. If the interest rates are reduced because the economy improved, then the growth could stay similar.
- stana 10y agoAren't interest rates reduced to stimulate a struggling economy, and increased if economy improving?
- xapata 10y agoRight. If interest rates are increased, that's a sign of a stronger economy and the market might go up in response. On the other hand, traders might decide the Fed is mistaken, the economy is not in fact stronger, and they'll react to the higher interest rates by taking fewer loans and the market will go down. Basically, the change is already priced-in and you shouldn't worry about timing the market. Buy and hold.
- ownagefool 10y agoI recommened reading the parents link but if it's all a bit too much for you vanguard does funds that are already diversified and deals with the rebalancing on your behalf. https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/lifestrategy/#/ https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/lifestrategy/#/
- jrheard 10y agoThumbs up, this is what I use.
- benevol 10y agoIt's good advice to save money and to spend conservatively, if you're poor. On the other hand, the implicit question of the post was "what did you create to generate passive income" (it's called "Hacker" News, not "Invester/Banker" News).
- scrypt 10y ago> It's good advice to save money and to spend conservatively, if you're poor. It depends on how well you manage the present. Aiming towards some perfect idyllic scenario in the future is not always so wise. It depends on how you manage that particular present you have crafted for yourself in the future.
- danesparza 10y agoI think you'll find that the poor generally don't save money -- they spend it, but I digress. Also: Why isn't interest income considered passive income to you? "The fundamentals" are there for a reason, after all.
- jrheard 10y agoI think that it's also good advice if you're not poor :) Your second point is absolutely correct, but I still think that my comment answers the root question - how did you set things up such that you're automatically being given money for free on a regular basis? - in a way that is simple, requires very little effort, and has a very good chance of working for many people who are able to try it.
- nchrys 10y agoI have read a lot about passive investing (The Intelligent Investor, Mr Money Mustache etc.) but I live in France and it does not seem as simple as in the US to invest in a SP500 index fund for example. Especially if you want something that is quite tax efficient. Does anyone have any advice?
- hackerboos 10y agoFrance doesn't have an ISA/Roth IRA/TFSA equivalent? Google tells me - PEA (Plan d'Epargne en Actions) - but this info was from 2006.
- jklepatch 10y agoThats right. With a PEA you can avoid capital taxes provided you hold your stocks long enough. As per how to open a brokerage account for alien non US resident, several years ago I managed to open an account at interactive broker while living in hong kong. They have among the lowest fees of all brokers and good software. Pretty sure its also possible to open an account while residing in france. One thing to note though: as an alien non US resident, any US dividends will be taxed at 30pct in the US, directly deducted by the brokerage company
- late2part 10y agoOpen an investment account in the USA - it's fairly straightforward. I don't know your tax system in france, but you can invest in the US as an individual or an entity, probably worth talking w/ a tax attorney about how to do it - it's certainly done by others.
- cylinder 10y agoDon't think it's that straightforward. Probably need a SSN and there will be tax withholding of earnings
- late2part 10y agoProcess here. Not trivial but not insurmountable. https://www.irs.gov/uac/form-w-8ben-certificate-of-foreign-status-of-beneficial-owner-for-united-states-tax-withholding https://www.irs.gov/uac/form-w-8ben-certificate-of-foreign-s... https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/contexthelp?id=1202010000 https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/contexthelp?id=1202010000 Open an ETRADE Securities account if I'm neither a legal resident of the U.S. nor a U.S. citizen You won't be able to open a brokerage account online if you are not a legal resident or citizen of the United States because we will need some additional documentation from you. If you're not sure if you're a legal resident, see the Help topic Determine my residency status. Request a brokerage account application by mail, or download it from our Forms & Applications page. Download a Form W-8BEN. Complete sections 1 through 6 of the application (the section on options trading isn't required). Send your completed application and Form W-8BEN, along with your initial deposit and any supporting documentation, to us at: By regular U.S. mail ETRADE Securities LLC PO Box 484 Jersey City, NJ 07303 - 0484 By overnight mail E*TRADE Securities LLC Harborside Financial Center 501 Plaza 2 34 Exchange Place Jersey City, NJ 07311 1-800-ETRADE-1
- klenwell 10y agoEarlier this year, at my last boring corporate job, I was trading stock trading stories with our head accountant. (Like the time my brother and I were trading stock tips about 10 years ago, when he turned me on to some up-and-coming German solar energy firm and I mentioned to him some small biotech company I had just read about. I invested a couple thousand dollars in the company my brother suggested and it was bankrupt within 24 months. My brother invested in both and the company I had mentioned -- I can't remember its name and only even vaguely remember the conversation -- has gone on to something like 50x return, easily making up for the losses from his lousy recommendation... But I digress.) I told the accountant, who I always found watching CNBC in the break room and I suspect still dreamed of being a day-trader, that the best investment I ever made was our company's ESPP (Employee Stock Purchase Plan). He said, "You know what? Same here." (Standard disclaimer: max out your 401(k)/IRA contributions, first.)
- chug 10y agoIt's important to remember that this is putting all of your eggs in one basket to a certain extent though. Your income, your 401k match, and your ESPP are all tied to your employer, so as long as things are good, ESPPs can be a great way to make easy money, but if things take a stark downturn, you can find yourself with ESPP you lost money on, a slouching 401k, and no job. The chances of that happening are fairly low, but still something that makes me a little uncomfortable about ESPPs. Obviously your advice to max our 401k/IRA contributions first should mitigate a lot of this, but I think it's important to mention the risk too since there's a certain temptation for younger engineers who think it sounds like easy money and don't realize the full implications of it.
- irrational 10y agoThat's true, but I always sell my ESPP as soon as it is purchased. That is an immediate 15+% return. Our ESPP is 15% off of the lower of either the beginning or the ending of the offering. Of course the hope is that it will be the lower at the beginning of the offering so that the sell will be 15% + the amount the stock has risen since the beginning.
- closeparen 10y ago... otherwise known as a 401k. Probably don't do this (use taxable investment accounts) unless you have at least 15% going to your tax-advantaged retirement account(s).
- jrheard 10y agoGood point, I forgot to mention that. I think that it's possible for a lot of young people in our industry to save significantly more than 15% of their income, and so I should have said: max out your contributions to retirement accounts every year and then set things up such that you're automatically saving as much of your remaining salary as is comfortable (e.g. if you're a recent college grad working in SF, and you have roommates, you might find that this percentage is pretty high!).
- shostack 10y agoI was on the "max out retirement accounts" train when I was younger. When I got older and home prices got massively inflated, I wished I kept more of that in non retirement accounts to be made more easily liquid for a home without steep penalties. Saving tax while something grows is great, unless you need that cash sooner. Then it is not too helpful. I wish there were a tax advantaged vehicle to use for setting aside money for a home. So yes, definitely invest in tax advantaged accounts, but do so with a solid understanding of your expected financial needs as best you can model for the next 5-10 years. If you need access to that money sooner, what you'd lose on tax may be worth the flexibility of having those investments somewhere more easily liquidated.
- breckenedge 10y agoYou can avoid the 10% tax penalty for early withdrawal for your first home if it's in a Roth IRA, up to $10k. It's not very tax advantaged though. [1] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b/ch02.html https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b/ch02.html
- closeparen 10y ago
- stevenmays 10y agoI put 25k into my investments this year, and I made 40k in unrealized gains, following the above strategy. It works folks. My blog post about financial independence: http://mays.co/why-financial-independence/ http://mays.co/why-financial-independence/
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- yonibot 10y agoNice blog, but watch out for advising people that putting money in index funds 'pretty much assumes an 8% return'. Returns can vary wildly year by year even if 7-9% annual is accurate over the last 20-30 years or so. Bogle (and others) is estimating the coming year's returns to be lower than 7.
- stevenmays 10y agoThanks! I've heard that comment a few times so I think I will make a quick edit. Appreciate it.
- dursk 10y agoI mean, it does work, but using a sample size of one single year isn't the best way to explain or prove it.
- icedchai 10y agoYes, it works. I've been investing a minimum of $500/week for the past 8 years. Currently I'm investment $1000/week. I make good money and keep my expenses low, and now have more than 33x my yearly expenses in investment/savings. I'm planning on retiring early...
- zild3d 10y agoAt 33x annual spending you can retire today. That is already passed the 4% withdrawal rate (can take out 4% every year and never decrease the principle), which is 25x annual spending in savings/investments. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need...
- pdog 10y agoThis isn't really passive income outside of the 2% dividend yield of a total market index fund, which isn't all that great. A $500,000 investment only yields about $10,000 annually. (Not to mention the significant risk of a market drawdown in a given year.)
- nshelly 10y agoI think the idea is that you can plan on withdrawing 4% every year as well. The more flexible you are with your expenses, the more you can withdraw while ensuring you will have sufficient income throughout your retirement. I like the hybrid constant-percentage / constant-dollar withdrawal method where you keep 7.5 years of withdrawals in bonds and the rest in stocks. So a $1m portfolio produces $40k per year so 7.5x * $40k is $300k in bonds, and $700k in stocks. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Withdrawal_methods#Combination https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Withdrawal_methods#Combinati...
- module0000 10y agoFor what it's worth, my best passive income was from investing as much of my income as I can part with paycheck to paycheck. No boring investments though, always the exact same two funds: UWTI and DWTI, both of which are gone, they delisted on Dec 8th. That said...there are many funds like them, those in particular are 3x leveraged crude oil ETF's. That means if the price of oil rises 1%, UWTI rises 3%. If it falls 1%, DWTI rises 3%. Crude oil as a market has "predictable volatility", that (simply) means that within a given day, the price will rise/fall repeatedly within a sane range(given no extraordinary circumstances). Identify this range, and buy and sell on both sides(short and long) to take advantage of the range. Follow the big money(banks), and you'll be just fine. Never go against the flow, you will (virtually) always lose.
- Rodfarva 10y agoThis is very bad advice. 3x funds are not meant for long term buy an hold. They experience contango and even if they index end up flat you can still lose money from the gyrations of the market. Nobody should b investing in in leveraged etf longer than a few days.
- module0000 10y agoI didn't say to buy and hold it...that would be very foolish unless you know something that noone else does(which is unlikely). I was talking about using the daily volatility to profit from following the banks. ie: day trading. My positions in leveraged funds last less than 60 minutes, and the average is probably closer to 10 minutes. Before you jump into 2x or 3x, you should be able to reliably generate returns from a non-leveraged ETF tracking the same commodity.
- amag 10y agoSo what happens to UWTI when the price of oil falls 1% and to DWTI when it rises 1%?
- gaurav-gupta 10y agoThey'll move 3x. When oil falls 1%, UWTI rises 3% and DWTI falls 3%. That's good for a short term bet if it goes your way. In the long term it corrodes the value. Lets say UWTI is trading at 100 today. Oil is trading at 50. Day1: Oil falls 47.5 (5% drop). UWTI will fall to -> 100 * ( 1 - 3 * 0.05) = 85 Day2: Oil rises back to 50 (5.26 % rise). UWTI will rise to -> 85 (1+ 3 * 0.0526) = 98.42 So even though oil price recovered, you lost $1.58. Over a period of time, rise and fall in oil prices corrodes the value of UWTI & DWTI (and similar leveraged ETFs)
- branchless 10y agoMr Money Moustache has 2 or 3 rental properties which are wealth appropriating not wealth creating. He's using the wages of other families. He goes on about how $10 is a lot yet takes far, far more in rent each week.
- literallycancer 10y agoWhat's wrong with renting properties? >which are wealth appropriating not wealth creating Literally everything anyone buys is paid for by a portion of their wealth, not sure what you are trying to say here.
- branchless 10y agoNot sure where to start here. Are you suggesting money gained is a proxy for wealth created? It's the product of an imperfect system. Some people add more value than they are paid for, others the inverse. The system heavily favours economic rent extraction via land. Almost all new debt is issued via land. Quite simply people have figured out it's a rigged game and are piling in, hence the asset bubble and the fallout effecting an entire generation, which perhaps you missed. I'm not really interested in discussing this with you either as just pointing out things are paid for is just taking the existing system without any question as "correct".
- koonsolo 10y agoI understand what you are saying, but I think you are missing an important concept. If you created more value than you spend, you have an extra. Other people want to spend more than they created. So what happens is that people who have the extra, can loan their value to those who have a deficit. This loaning can also be considered a service. People are not forced into renting. What Mr. Money Mustache is saying is "Hey, don't be the guy with the deficit, be the guy with the surplus, because everyone with the deficit will work for those with the surplus". What I hear from US with all their credit cards, it seems it's a culture of spending way more than you earn. Spending money that you will receive at the end of the month. Which is pretty stupid.
- thecrazyone 10y agoOh, I invest the automated way too and figured that's the best way given I know this is important for nest egg and such and I want to spend as little time as reasonably possible managing investments . For my Indian friends here (or people interested in investing in the Indian market), I'd suggest http://scripbox.com http://scripbox.com (no affiliation, just a happy customer). I started a year ago when I was 25, and am glad I started this early(-ish).
- Zelmor 10y agoDo you have any thoughts or sources on Indian micro-loan investments? It looks like a way to help people in need while gaining some profit off their success. I'm more interested in the former, but I do not wish to simply donate. I do not believe it to be the way to go about these things.
- fantominous 10y agoDo you mean something like Kiva or Zidisha? They're quite popular, but there's a very real chance that the borrower can default on your investment. Not a huge deal though, because if you're micro-lending then this is expected. I don't think the interest rates are good either. Doing it for charitable reasons is fine, but it's not a great way to make money IMO.
- Hbthegreat 10y agoThis is if you don't need that capital to create your own businesses or other streams of revenue.
- useandthrow94 10y agoHas anyone invested on a peer-to-peer lending platform? Curious of how the risk & reward for such platforms compare to those of ETFs and index funds.