33 ms·

Pebble's next step

• m4tthumphrey 10y ago
  Wow that didn't take long.
• dijit 10y ago
  I'd like to know how this happened really. Pebbles were pretty decent and their successful campaigns definitely contributed to the rise of smart watches. But after having two hugely successful crowdfunding campaigns, how did they fail?
  • minimaxir 10y ago
    This is what can happen when, unlike most tech startups, cost of goods sold is a business consideration.
  • imaginenore 10y ago
    Why do you think they failed? Didn't FitBit just buy them?
    • Leszek 10y ago
      FitBit bought them for the equivalent of pennies because they were, it seems, deep in debt.
    • cillian64 10y ago
      Pebble have entered insolvency: http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/ http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/
      • asmithmd1 10y ago
        A bankruptcy judge is going to have to approve all this. You can't sell all the valuable assets of a company the same day you declare bankruptcy - that could be considered fraud. If I had just fulfilled a big order of theirs yesterday on net 60 terms we had been operating under for the past 5 years I would be pretty upset.
    • listentojohan 10y ago
      No, Fitbit are buying the assets of Pebble, the company is closing.
    • cschmidt 10y ago
      Well, it was a acquihire, which is kind of sad. Not a failure for investors, perhaps, but certainly for their customers.
      • joshstrange 10y ago
        > FitBit bought just their software assets for under $40 million. In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million. I'd say that was a failure for Pebble investors as they raised $58.81M according to crunchbase.
        • bb611 10y ago
          And of that $40 million, they still owe their creditors something like $27 million. So for investors/founders, they're all looking at <1/4 of their investment cash value.
    • detaro 10y ago
      Bought because they likely could not survive on their own, cancelling their product lines & support for them, and for ~ 5 % of the highest buyout offer they received before. There are worse ways to fail, but it's not really success.
    • mabbo 10y ago
      What is success? The product they named their company after is never going to be manufactured again. People who paid them for that product but haven't received it yet never will. Their company is dead. Or do you mean the fact that their founders and owners probably got some cash back for selling the whole thing? Well, how much do you get back for an acquihire? Fitbit didn't buy them for their tech, or they'd still be selling it.
      • lettergram 10y ago
        They may have bought them for patents though. E-ink display on a watch could be pretty important for fitbit going forward.
        • blackguardx 10y ago
          Pebble never used an E-Ink display. They used Sharp memory LCD displays (which Nike funded the development of in the watch formfactor) and called them E-Paper because they promised E-Ink in one of their kickstarters.
    • cptskippy 10y ago
      FitBit bought just their software assets for under $40 million. In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million. FitBit did not acquire their $24 million in debt or any physical asserts. They offered jobs to 40% of the staff.
      • FT_intern 10y ago
        > In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million ouch, i can only imagine how the founders feel
        • cptskippy 10y ago
          It depends on the terms of the offer. He might have thought he was working in his employee's best interests by not taking the offer. Alternatively he could have negotiated support contracts for existing customers and provided stock options to employees then cashed out. But in hindsight he's probably kicking himself.
    • uiri 10y ago
      No, Pebble is bankrupt and winding down operations. FitBit is buying some parts and offering jobs to the software people. This is not an acquihire. The designers and hardware people are not joining FitBit. The owners get nothing. Some of Pebble's creditors will likely also get nothing since the software/IP sale doesn't cover Pebble's debts.
  • TarpitCarnivore 10y ago
    > But after having two hugely successful crowdfunding campaigns, how did they fail? One could argue having to go continuously go back to that well meant they never gained the market traction they were hoping for.
    • lettergram 10y ago
      I don't know, that may be true, but I saw multiple people walk into target and ask for Pebble's. I was actually astonished when I first saw it, but I was like - "alright, pebble is going to be okay". This was like six months ago, but it was in SF.
    • TeMPOraL 10y ago
      I think it was simply a kind of tradition. It wouldn't be Pebble without a Kickstarter for each new watch. Also I suppose this way they got better deal on preorders that they could do elsewhere, coupled with lots of free marketing.
      • mikestew 10y ago
        I think it was simply a kind of tradition. It wouldn't be Pebble without a Kickstarter for each new watch. It was the cute the first two times. By round #3, I was tired of the "we'll ship soon, after a slew of delays!" dance, and ready for Pebble to put on their big boy pants and let me know when they ship to a retailer from whom I can buy one that day. And apparently those big boy pants were still fitting a bit loose.
  • roel_v 10y ago
    There are dozens of people on the pictures on the linked pages. You have to sell a lot of $99 watches to pay them all. They say 2 million watches sold; gross margin of - what - $10? $20? Say $40mm margin over the 8 years they mention; staff costs of $5mm/year (50 people, 100k/year including everything - unrealistically low estimate). That doesn't even leave room for other development costs, visits to production factories, returns, everything else. Having done 'a successful crowdfunding campaign' is not an enviable position to be in, most of the time - although of course the vast majority of backers have no experience running a business whatsoever and think 'these guys are sitting on a mountain of money, what can go wrong'.
  • stingrae 10y ago
    When such a large percentage of your sales as a company come from kickstarter, where you seemingly have to give a heavy discount to the real price. My guess is that it becomes hard to succeed in retail/other channels at a real price with margin that could sustain a company.
• Leszek 10y ago
  Very disappointing for this backer that the Time 2 will never come out. It makes you wonder where the kickstarter money went.
  • amarpatel 10y ago
    > Kickstarter backers who have not received their rewards will receive a full refund within 4-8 weeks as a chargeback to their credit cards. No further action is needed.
    • Leszek 10y ago
      No, I know that I'll be getting a refund, I just wonder why the kickstarter money wasn't enough to fulfill the kickstarter rewards.
      • detaro 10y ago
        Kickstarter probably mostly covers production of the rewards, not the product development.
        • gerryk 10y ago
          It's business 101 that the retail price should cover all production costs, including R&D, otherwise you are in shortfall from day 0.
          • detaro 10y ago
            Retail price over the full sales run. Kickstarter was just the preorder phase of it and thus likely doesn't cover the full R&D, especially not if the estimates were off in some way.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• tedajax 10y ago
  As someone who quite likes their time steel and who was patiently waiting for their time 2 this is incredibly frustrating. No other watches do what I want so I guess my foray into smart watches is over. It's a shame too because I appreciate the convenience it offers but I probably won't miss it much after a couple of weeks
  • tcoppi 10y ago
    I have an OG pebble steel and it does everything I currently want in a smartwatch. I don't expect it will stop working for some time, and I plan on using it as long as possible.
    • agumonkey 10y ago
      Has anybody managed to make a nice dissection of the device to see if it's possible to reimplement it ?
      • rtpg 10y ago
        iFixIt does a teardown of the Pebble Time where it seems to have a relatively straightforward construction https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Pebble+Time+Teardown/42382 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Pebble+Time+Teardown/42382 EDIT: there's also this post on the tech specs on reddit[0]. This looks pretty re-implementable if you're a hardware engineer looking to do something fun. The right component mix seems to have been figured out already. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/wiki/tech_specs https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/wiki/tech_specs
      • TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Firmware can be reversed, and as for the hardware, I suppose the teardowns iFixit did should be enough for a competent hardware engineer to replicate the design.
  • olemartinorg 10y ago
    I agree with this being frustrating. I had to explain to so many people that even though my watch doesn't have a SIM card, integrated 4G, GPS or a memory card slot for music it is still exactly what I wanted. Pebble watches do what smart watches should do, without trying to be a tiny phone on your wrist. I guess I can only dream, but I hope they some day open up parts of it so that the phone app can continue working even with changes to Android/IOS down the line (if Fitbit doesn't want to keep the old Pebbles alive). But with that said, a smart watch makes me feel hyper-connected. Putting it in quiet mode (and/or taking it off my wrist) every now and then is liberating and definitely makes me more productive.
• DiabloD3 10y ago
  But I thought Fitbit was exiting the wearable market?
  • Oletros 10y ago
    The rumors about leaving was for Jawbone I think
  • sp332 10y ago
    "Last week, Fitbit reportedly sent job offers to about 40% of Pebble’s employees, most of them software engineers." https://bgr.com/2016/12/07/pebble-kickstarter-refund-time-2/ https://bgr.com/2016/12/07/pebble-kickstarter-refund-time-2/ Apparently they're not that interested in hardware.
  • ClassyJacket 10y ago
    ...What else do they make?
    • sulam 10y ago
      There's a scale. ;) But yeah, still making those wristbands!
• pwelch 10y ago
  This is sad to hear. It was a really cool product.
• bryanlarsen 10y ago
  Is there any way to get a Pebble 2 instead of a refund on my Time 2 pledge?
  • dirtbox 10y ago
    Take the refund and pick up a P2 from Best Buy or Target (or regional equivalent) for a fraction of the cost. They no longer appear to be sending anything at all out.
    • bryanlarsen 10y ago
      Thanks, I didn't realize they were in stores yet. I'd better hurry before they run out of inventory.
• sandis 10y ago
  > Warranty support is no longer available for Pebble watches. That's not very nice.
  • rtpg 10y ago
    Also not super legal, probably. I'm sure if you have a problem, you could argue that Fitbit needs to handle it.
    • lucaspiller 10y ago
      This is exactly why FitBit only bought the IP - it means they don't have any legal responsibilities the other company has, such as warranties.
      • syshum 10y ago
        They may not have any Legal Liablity, but it going to be a PR problem for them I know I will not buy any FitBit products either, if this acceptable to FitBit, to do nothing for these customers knowing this was going to happen then FiTBit does not deserve anyone's money either. It would have been better for the company to just Die if they were that bad off (which I have my doubts unless they were Seriously mismanaged) These Acquihires where a large company partially buys out another company for there personnel and/or IP shuttering the original product and fucking over customers need to come with at minimum a HUGE PR back lash for the company buying the assets to make them at least do right by the original customers offering things like Reasonable levels of support, Transition planning, etc
    • dspillett 10y ago
      Depends exactly what they bought. Those liabilities might be owned by the remaining shell which is now in administation or a vapour-like "parent company" rather than having been transferred to fitbit. Maybe not moral, but quite probably perfectly legal.
      • sulam 10y ago
• cwisecarver 10y ago
  I backed the Time 2 and the Core. I was way more excited about the Core. I have a 1st-gen Apple Watch and am perfectly happy with that. I was going to give the Time 2 to my father-in-law for Christmas. It's really disappointing. I'm really looking forward to someone explaining the what and whys of this. Based on Fitbit's stock price over the last year I can't imagine this acquisition will turn out good for either party, the developers going to Fitbit, or the wearable community in general.
• twoquestions 10y ago
  So it looks like Fitbit acquihired the team from Pebble. Here's hoping Fitbit releases a product like the Pebbles, as it was much more safe and less attention-consuming to check a text message on my watch while driving than bringing out my phone, or asking a passenger to do this. Are there any other things like it that we can migrate to, or will the world never see their like again?
  • peatmoss 10y ago
    > check a text message on my watch while drivin Please don't do this. Traffic fatalities--particularly those involving vulnerable road users have spiked in the last couple years. There is nothing you can communicate that is worth the grave risk to others that you pose.
    • hjmcnew 10y ago
      To be 100% clear, I totally agree with you that one shouldn't check their text messages while driving. That being said, the statistics don't support your claim that traffic fatalities have spiked. Through 2014 (the last year the IIHS published statistics) fatalities had either leveled off or continued their historical decline. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalit...
      • beerbajay 10y ago
        > In the first six months of 2016, highway deaths jumped 10.4 percent, to 17,775, from the comparable period of 2015, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/business/tech-distractions-blamed-for-rise-in-traffic-fatalities.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/business/tech-distractions...
        • hjmcnew 10y ago
          Having read the article you posted the raw increase is concerning. Unfortunately the article does the statistics no favors. It uses anecdotal evidence and an increase in overall fatalities to draw a correlation that (likely is) but may not be there. Phone calls and SMS have been in cars for a couple decades. Smart phones have been prevalent about a decade. Apps have been a thing for more than 5 years. Why the sudden jump over the last 6 months? The article says apps are certainly to blame but then provides very little supporting evidence.
• aikah 10y ago
  Still taking orders on kickstarter right now... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time-2-and-core-an-entirely-new-3g-ultra/comments https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time...
• maxerickson 10y ago
  Ducks not quite in a straight line yet. From text of announcement: Pebble is no longer promoting, manufacturing, or selling any devices. From header of getpebble.com: Buy Now $99 Also, the store promoting Pebble has no prominent announcement that they aren't promoting Pebble anymore (the one watch I checked did say out of stock, so they aren't selling it at the moment).
  • maxerickson 10y ago
    (So the 2 hour edit window has only just closed and they have fixed both things)
• k2xl 10y ago
  I guess their latest Pebble version didn't get the sales they expected. Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company - they had the brand and a loyal customer base. As an owner of a Pebble Time, I was impressed by the integrations, simplicity of design, and battery life. I wonder went wrong - hopefully, there will be some type of post-mortem on these "various factors" over the next few weeks.
  • aikah 10y ago
    > Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company They sold their liabilities to Fitbit . Wasn't Pebble valuated billions of dollars a few years ago? Something went terribly wrong.
    • detaro 10y ago
      Highest reported buyout offer was $740 million from Citizen.
      • sulam 10y ago
        That offer seems unlikely since that would have been a substantial portion of Citizen's market cap.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• rtpg 10y ago
  I am so sad about this. I had told myself that at least I'd get a Time 2 and a Core, and stave myself off before the sadness hits again that Pebble is gone. Pebble's products were an excellent example of lateral technology. No need for high DPI on your watch, because they made something that looks good with few pixels. Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure cookers. Even when the battery ran out you still got 24 hours of a watch that would at least tell the time! I have no idea if it is possible to produce something like Pebbles at low quantities, but I would love to see an open design with similar specs. I think these watches are better than anything else out there, and it's sad the design is going to disappear.
  • iamatworknow 10y ago
    >Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure cookers. I literally wear my Time Steel for 23 hours and 45 minutes per day. The only time it's charging and not on my wrist is when I'm in the shower, and over the course of a regular day it never drops below 80%. If I'm going away for a weekend I don't even have to bother with the charger.
    • Twirrim 10y ago
      I charge my first gen Pebble literally once a week. Monday morning, I get to work, and put my pebble on charge. By the time stand-up happens a couple of hours later (my first meeting of the day) it's back on my wrist and good to go for the next week. I was aiming to get a new Pebble after Christmas, as mine suffers from that screen corruption glitch that plagued the first gens. I expect this is actually part of the problem, and likely affects many smartwatch producing companies: If it wasn't for the screen glitch, I wouldn't be replacing my watch. It works, does everything I need, and speed isn't an issue. A colour display would be nice, but it's far from important to me. I'm sure the same is true for many Joe Average consumers. There isn't the same impetus to frequently upgrade a watch.
      • iamatworknow 10y ago
        I had the same screen glitch with my Kickstarter edition OG Pebble, then bounced around to other smart watches until I landed again on the Time Steel which has been nothing but perfect. But you're right. Much like the cell phone market which appears to be slowing down, the minor improvements made in the tech for smart watches don't appear to actually be worth buying if you already have the current version that isn't broken. Unfortunately, the software Pebbles run is so straightforward that even planned obsolescence through required updates wouldn't have been a viable option like it is for cell phones. Y'know, the updates that correct dangerous security vulnerabilities while at the same time crippling old hardware by introducing new, unnecessary features in the software? No Pebble owner would've bought (for lack of a better word) that justification and upgraded.
• pbnjay 10y ago
  Wow this is even worse than expected from the previous news articles... If they're winding down all support and warranties, PLEASE release as much of the watch operating system code as possible! I know some of the IP was sold, but if Fitbit won't be continuing support please help those of us who love our current watches keep them going!
  • dag11 10y ago
    That's Fitbit's call. Would be a great way to retain some product/brand loyalty among its supporters though!
    • richfnelson 10y ago
      Sure, that's how we think here. But the suits will see it differently.
    • soneil 10y ago
      The name would be something of a poisoned chalice if they can't fulfil existing orders. They've bought the parts that are worth something. They haven't bought the liabilities. It seems like a pretty obvious move, in that cold light.
    • WorldMaker 10y ago
      It might not be Fitbit's call depending on how the bankruptcy was structured. From reading between the lines of the post, it sounds like Fitbit is onboarding much of the staff but maybe didn't pay for (or was unable to pay for) some or all of the IP.
• kingosticks 10y ago
  That's a real shame. The search for a small Spotify-enabled device continues.
  • freekh 10y ago
    Mine too :/
• gregmac 10y ago
  > Pebble devices will continue to work as normal. No immediate changes to the Pebble user experience will happen at this time. > Pebble functionality or service quality may be reduced in the future. That's very unfortunate. How much of Pebble relies on some online service? Is it still possible to install apps/updates without their infrastructure? For companies that don't open source their stuff by default, it would be so nice if there was some kind of escrow service where upon dissolution of the company (sale, bankruptcy, etc) the required software to keep their hardware going would be released. I suspect the problem is while it's a win for consumers, not enough would care: the mass market is not going to only buy products that have this escrow service, and at the same time, it's handcuffs for the business, likely complicating a sale or liquidation of the company, and possibly turning investors off. I hope the Pebble doesn't become a complete wristbrick, but it's always a shame to see perfectly good hardware crippled because there's no longer a piece of software running entirely outside the consumer's control.
  • cillian64 10y ago
    I recall them having quite a good SDK ( https://developer.pebble.com https://developer.pebble.com ) to write your own apps and run basically whatever you wanted on the thing. I hope you can use the SDK to load apps directly, but I'm not sure. Hopefully the community can run with this and set something up so people can distribute and install apps outside of the official services.
  • andrewblossom 10y ago
    It sounds like the developers at Pebble are hopeful that Fitbit will allow the community to step in where Fitbit can't (or won't): https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-update/ https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-commu... "Further down the road, we’ll be working to phase out cloud services, providing the ability for the community to take over, where possible."
    • djsumdog 10y ago
      I understanding them selling a lot of IP to Fitbit to pay back their debts and settle bankruptcy, but I really feel all the source for their app/store-services should have been made open source instead, prior to this announcement. That way at least their customers could try to hack together stuff or make mirrors of their app repos to keep their devices functional.
• jtruk 10y ago
  > Active Pebble watches will work normally for now. Functionality or service quality may be reduced down the road. We don’t expect to release regular software updates or new Pebble features. I hope they open source Pebble OS, maybe even the assets that drive the Pebble store.
• pimterry 10y ago
  This is tragic; I was waiting on a Time 2, but looks like no longer. What else is around in this niche now? Are there other relatively cheap, simple smart watches with good battery life that I should be looking at instead?
  • s_kilk 10y ago
    Yeah, I've been waiting on my pre-order Pebble 2 HR to arrive, but will certainly be cancelling, presuming there's anyone left in the building to accept the cancellation. Would love to know what the alternatives are, as I've been tired of the low build-quality of my Fitbit and really want something much nicer and closer to a smart-watch.
• alonsonic 10y ago
  I can't believe this, just got a Pebble 2 a week ago and now they are literally saying it may not work in the future. If we rely on their cloud services for activity tracking and app downloads then it will be useless if FitBit doesn't maintain the platform. I have to say I'm really disappointed and this is a huge blow to people that invest in startups offering hardware. If the company fails forget about the smart stuff you bought, it just won't work anymore. We should look for ways to minimize the impact on backers. Sadly we'll see more of this in a future in which the products depend a lot on the company cloud services to operate.
  • michaelsbradley 10y ago
    Caveat emptor.
    • denzil_correa 10y ago
      I'm not sure if this even makes sense here.
      • michaelsbradley 10y ago
        It does, if one broadens "quality and suitability of goods" to include the manufacturer–originator, which seems like a reasonable thing to do for a tech gadget purchase that will involve a long/ish term relationship with the corporation that makes the gadget in question.
  • twistedpair 10y ago
    e.g. a pledge to open source the code base if the company folds?
    • alonsonic 10y ago
      That sounds like a really good idea, and gives more confidence to the early adopters that the platform might live even if they fail
    • 10y ago
• iamatworknow 10y ago
  I was a Kickstarter backer in 2012 and still have my original Pebble. There was a weird screen issue and I wanted to try other things, so I switched to the Gear 2 Neo which was absolute garbage. Then I moved on to the Moto 360, which also left me very disappointed when somehow the rear glass (the part that rests on your wrist) shattered. So I went back to Pebble and got the Time Steel about a year ago and it's been flawless. Worked with my Note 4 and later (currently) with my iPhone 6S Plus. It's a shame that they're not going to be around anymore for the next time I get an itch to try something new. When this watch quits I'll probably just go back to my Citizen.
  • Mtinie 10y ago
    I had both of my original KS Pebbles brick with the same screen issue. Needless to say, you had a lot more faith in the company than I did after that. I just considered my original KS pledge a bad investment and moved on without looking back.
• forvelin 10y ago
  their business strategy was terrible. -though, their developer support was awesome- I still wear my time steel and will get my time 2 refund, but I am surely frustrated by how they screwed all it up. They did not open source any core bits, left with crappy update which drains batteries and openly admitted quality will get worse by time. note-for-future : don't get into hype trains.
• europa 10y ago
  Whenever this kind of things happens. It will make all the more difficult for startups to acquire users because this reiterates "Startups are either going to be acquired and killed or die prematurely".
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    This hurts, because Pebble always seemed to me like the "good" kind of startup that will live long.
    • kbd 10y ago
      Unfortunately they didn't grow responsibly. I worked for a start-up that did a similar thing. We hired tons of people and the business was unsustainable. It was a push to get bought or go out of business. Lucky for us we got bought.
• ynniv 10y ago
  I'll trade my refund for a postmortem.
  • captainmuon 10y ago
    I'd love to know what the ratio of incompetence to malice was.
    • ynniv 10y ago
      They dropped 90% of their valuation... It's rare for that to be malice. Most likely their costs overran them and they couldn't find funding.
    • wvenable 10y ago
      The smartwatch market pretty much tanked in 2016. Apple just sold a record number of Apple watches but even they were down for the most of year. There just wasn't enough runway for Pebble to keep running; they even laid off 25% of their staff earlier in the year.
    • htrp 10y ago
      Hanlon's razor
• captainmuon 10y ago
  I'm quite angry. This sucks so bad. I "ordered" a Time 2 via Kickstarter. I'm glad they are refunding me, but that makes me think... WTF, did they not produce any Time 2's? Or are they all going to the landfill? How long have they been knowing that they are going to be insolvent? This doesn't happen overnight! Was the last Kickstarter a gamble? Why does everybody have to aim for total market dominance to be successful? They overreached and now the customers suffer. There should be a place for "small" manufacturer selling a niche product ("small" with a certain understatement like German "Mittelstand" enterprizes - I mean Pebble sold millions of units). If they had to increase the price by 10% to be sustainable, they still would have smashed the Kickstarter. Sometimes I think there is a secret cabal conspiring so we can't have nice things ;-). The same one that decided that cell phone batteries have to be non-removable, touchscreens glossy, and wearables either mini-smartphones or bluetooth-step-counters.
  • victorvation 10y ago
    > Was the last Kickstarter a gamble? _All_ Kickstarters are gambles. Their messaging[1] is pretty clear in the fact that you aren't buying a product, you're contributing money with the hope that the maker will deliver on their promises. [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store
    • sleepychu 10y ago
      I think your parent means a gamble on the part of Pebble.
    • captainmuon 10y ago
      Right, but I meant a gamble on their side, not the buyers'. Like when MtGox lost their bitcoins and ran as a fractional reserve trying to cover what happened. Or an actual addicted gambler trying to cut their losses by playing more. I wonder when they learned they were going out of business, and if the last Kickstarter was just a Hail Mary...
      • deleted 10y ago
• lucaspottersky 10y ago
  wow. this sounds like "yeah, f*ck ya'all up, we are leaving this boat". i guess that's what you get from "small startups".
• jscheel 10y ago
  So, basically, there will be no way to load watchfaces or apps when their servers go down, and a lot of other things will also stop working. I've been a big advocate of Pebble for a long time. This is a great middle finger to all of us that have been with them from the beginning.
• illuminati1911 10y ago
  How about all you disappointed folks just get a real smart watch backed by a real company like Apple Watch?
• dkroy 10y ago
  Is there an alternative out there right now with comparable battery life and features? It looks like I won't be receiving my next pebble so I am looking for something similar.
• fudgy73 10y ago
  I don't usually get upset about this stuff, business is business, but with my outstanding time 2 and core orders, I am definitely feeling bamboozled. I always thought of pebbles fighting fitbits, the watch for 'us' vs the trackers for everyone. The open platform vs the locked in, the device that got just what you wanted done vs the not-really-a-watch. It seemed like with pebble health and their relationship with Stanford things were on the up and up. Now ending warranties and such a trying to be nice but not really announcement. I expect nothing from fitbit. This sucks.
  • tokenizerrr 10y ago
    I'm not a lawperson, but can companies really just terminate a warranty like that?
    • maaaats 10y ago
      When being bought, one would think the new company would take over the responsibilities. But I also read that the employee-shares would be worthless, so it looks like FitBit bought Pebble in a weird sense.
      • fudgy73 10y ago
        There's probably some startupy term for this. If Fitbit and Pebble were both buildings next to each other, Fitbit just bought Pebble's to demolish it and build Fitbit Tower 2.
      • sethd 10y ago
        They didn't buy the company, they bought some of the assets. In an asset purchase you don't take on the liability of the company your purchasing the assets from. Pebble as a company will go into bankruptcy and cease to exist.
    • maxerickson 10y ago
      Presumably the people affected could sue over it, but if there isn't any money left in the entity responsible for the warranties it is kind of a futile gesture.
• alexholehouse 10y ago
  One thought: FitBit's customer service with me has been nothing but exceptional from start to finish, and is the reason I have bought several for family members. I would hope that FitBit would recognize the loyalty they create based on this quality of service could be magnified by grandfathering Pebble's various services and by maintaining them, while helping Pebble users to transition at their convenience. This would allow Pebble users to continue to have functioning Pebble watches, with the likelihood of sticking with FitBit once the watch does finally break.
  • Yhippa 10y ago
    Fitbit only bought Pebble's software assets and brought over just under half their people.
    • JaceLightning 10y ago
      Technically didn't buy them--just sent them offer letters for jobs if they want them.
  • wvenable 10y ago
    Fitbit doesn't own any of the services so they can't maintain them even if they wanted to.
    • Kihashi 10y ago
      > It is because of the close collaboration with the Fitbit team that the Pebble user experience will continue. Fitbit will maintain services so that Pebble devices continue to work as normal. Pebble functionality and service may be reduced in the future. FTA
• IgorPartola 10y ago
  Would have been better if they had open sourced the OS and the server code. And the designs for that matter. Obviously the IP is worth quite a bit, but since it doesn't look like FitBit will be producing similar hardware, it sucks to essentially lose these designs and it sucks that at any point FitBit can just shutter the services that make the current watches work. Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen.
  • intopieces 10y ago
    >Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen. Yes, it was, and they even had Alexa integration planned. It made it a really interesting product, something that not even Apple or Google had. A little hackable 3G box with voice assistant. Really bummed.
• reustle 10y ago
  For those curious, you can still buy the Pebble 2 online via BestBuy, Walmart, Amazon, etc. Did the Pebble Time 2 ever get completed? Did anyone receive one? I was really looking forward to it...
  • hexxeh 10y ago
    It did not. There's a number of prototype units in existence, but that's it.
• djhworld 10y ago
  I've had my Pebble Time (1) for about 18 months now, sad to hear this. No other smartwatch can boast 4-5 day battery life.
  • ohyoutravel 10y ago
    My Garmin Vivoactive HR does just fine, normally 5-6 days without issue, with some GPS usage.
  • nathan_f77 10y ago
    30 days: http://vectorwatch.com/ http://vectorwatch.com/
• experimentsin 10y ago
  I note this from Pebble's developer blog, suggesting that a Fitbit-targeting successor to Pebble's app SDK may be a big part of the plan: "Although this chapter in Pebble’s developer story is closing, our team and ethos have found a new, welcoming home at Fitbit. We can’t wait to have you alongside us for this next adventure. Third-party Pebble developers have a massive opportunity to drive how a Fitbit developer ecosystem will take shape. We hope you’re as excited about seizing this opportunity as we are. Over the coming months we will be working closely with our new friends at Fitbit, building the foundation for the next great wearable experiences. We want you—our fantastic developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in our success. More information will follow soon, so stay tuned!" https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-update/ https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-commu...
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    This sound like typical post-acquihire PR bullshit. New 'exciting opportunities' and 'building the foundation for the next great wearable experience' does not in any way imply that any useful thing resembling a smartwatch will be created. It doesn't imply there will be a developer-friendly platform. Nor does this message actually make sense. "We want you—our fantastic developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in our success." There is no "us" and "our success" - they just got bought by another company and are shutting down the whole product line. They are literally a different entity now.
    • experimentsin 10y ago
      No argument over the phrasing. However, an evolution of the Fitbit Blaze device platform hooked up to something inspired by the CloudPebble online SDK doesn't seem implausible.
      • TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Given my experience with technology companies (especially startups) so far, I don't really expect that to happen. Though it would be very nice.
• aub3bhat 10y ago
  Its really sad to see Pebble going under. I really feel for the founders and employees. Unlike other commenters here I dont think there is obvious way this could have been avoided. Certain markets/companies do require a specific scale of investments/growth/market-penetration to be sustainable. Wearables/Smart-watches have proven to be a very difficult market and I pepole behind Pebble should be commended for risk taking.
• afrancis 10y ago
  Love my Pebble. Has almost everything I wanted in a watch. Found it a pity that on the marketing front, Pebble never seemed to get top of mind (or anything near there). My current's watch's display is starting to shred. Debating buying a second watch while they are still available. Downloaded the SDK and will grab the tutorials. Hopefully Fitbit will keep this information around.
• gerryk 10y ago
  Sad to see the failure of a truly alternative product.
• valine 10y ago
  Citizen buying pebble would have been so incredibly awesome. This is about the worst possible ending imaginable for pebble. Sad day.
• joshstrange 10y ago
  I have a first gen Apple Watch after having the Pebble Steel and I was very much considering going back to Pebble, this is very sad news.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• lettergram 10y ago
  You know, Pebble has garnered one of the best group of loyal customers I know of: well-off techies. Had they came to the community and said, "hey we are losing sales and we need everyone to pitch in $10 / year for software support (maybe a web interface for fitness or something) I guarantee a few hundred thousand people would have done it. Had they shared a coupon with the community (i.e. email add campaign, or add on watch - "buy one, get one half off" for christmas they would have probably had a large bump in orders. Although I recognize this would be a mild annoyance, I can also guarantee they would have sold plenty of units. This simply seems like poor management and it's frustrating because it's the best smart watch I can find at the moment. It does exactly what I want, is cheaper than the competition, and is dead simple to use. WTF pebble, you had the product people loved - you just didn't market it well.
  • mattmaroon 10y ago
    I don't think they even have a few hundred thousand customers. Their first one kicked in the neighborhood of 50k supporters. Did they even ship the second? A hardware company on the hook for fulfilling 50k orders of the sequel has some pretty serious expenses. A sale might have been the best landing and what got everyone a refund for the 2nd.
    • lettergram 10y ago
      Their pebble app has 500,000+ downloads on the Google store, and they have 2 million in pebble sales (I believe that's delivered). They've shipped their second Kickstarter last year (Pebble Time Steal).
      • mattmaroon 10y ago
        Ah. I guess they probably sold plenty of units through other channels. Still, they might need an incredibly high number of people to pay. And then people would bitch and say that they're running a ponzi scheme like a bitcoin wallet that lost all of its deposits. My guess is they've engineered a soft landing for orders they can't fulfill and employees and it's the best option in a bad situation. I'd commend them for doing that rather than taking the easy route.
• toxican 10y ago
  I'm devastated. I remember being so excited when the first kickstarter happened, but I was broke and couldn't buy one. Then finally after years of waiting and following them with interest, my wife bought me a Pebble Time for our anniversary. That was 2 months ago and now the future of this amazing device on my arm is completely up in the air. And what is the alternative? Some over-priced, under-featured piece of garbage fitbit? No thanks.
• 51Cards 10y ago
  My Pebble Time is brilliant... after an LG G, Moto 360, I settled on my Time being a perfect balance if functionality and usability. I was one of the first Time 2 backers and this really sucks to put it mildly. The Time 2 was going to fix my VERY few issues with the Time. In general they struck the perfect balance in a wearable for me and I was really excited about the future (Time 2, Google Assistant integration, etc). I rarely get truly sad about hardware announcements but this one is really disappointing.
• mattmaroon 10y ago
  I know how heartbreaking that must be for the founders, but at least they're going out the classy way. I'm sure we'll hear from them again.
• tezza 10y ago
  So do the existing hardware watches become collectors items or second draw fillers ?
• sickbeard 10y ago
  What's the point of warranties and cloud services if you can just be like "oops, goodbye"? Can they be sued for this?
  • davedunkin 10y ago
    > Can they be sued for this? Pebble Tech is insolvent[1]. Even if they were successfully sued, there's no money to collect. One would have to go after the management personally, or try to prove that Fitbit's acquisition of key assets should really be considered acquisition of the whole company, including obligations. 1. http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/ http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/
  • thraway2016 10y ago
    A lawsuit may be able to get you an order to stay dissolution from a sympathetic judge - then what? In bankruptcy, you're dead last behind vendors, creditors, employees, etc.
• cableshaft 10y ago
  I have a Pebble 2. I charged it last night. I have the Pebble Android app and I can't seem to get the two connected today. Is that because of this? Is there something on the backend that's required for notifications/sending already downloaded stuff from the app? I figured it did it all via the app on the client side, except the store. If I can't even connect anymore, that's pretty screwed up, and I'm angry. If it just worked as it had before, just without the Pebble store or something, I can live with that. Please just be some minor glitch. I'm very happy with the device as it was yesterday. Anyone else having this problem?
  • xd1936 10y ago
    Shouldn't be. Service is staying uninterrupted for the immediate future.
    • cableshaft 10y ago
      Okay, I got it connected, it just took a lot of resetting of crap. Apparently difficulty connecting with Android is a pretty common issue, as there's a lot of complaining about it on their forums.
• yalogin 10y ago
  I was looking at Pebble before but this shuts that down. Coincidentally I noticed that the market for luxury watches has heated up ever since Apple Watch was released.
• tokenizerrr 10y ago
  I actually had a Peddle around my wrist a few months ago, decided I didn't like it and sent it back. Really glad I did.
• rdl 10y ago
  This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I've seen. Congrats to Team Pebble for that. It has to suck to end this way after 8 years. :( I hope someone builds a product like Pebble Core; I'm not sure how generally viable that is, but I'd love to have it myself.
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I've seen. Congrats to Team Pebble for that. Oh, then you wasn't aware of the shitstorm that was happening on Reddit, Pebble forums and Kickstarter. The company basically went silent a month or so ago. Then, after the news of the acquisition broke early, they slowly progressed from total silence to completely unprofessional behaviour (i.e. posting stupid shit and not answering anything). I was - still am - a great fan of Pebble, so this whole affair really hurts me. :(.
    • rdl 10y ago
      Maybe you're right -- I didn't see that. I was mostly concerned w/ refunds on pending KS (which they don't have to do) and with them not shutting down the servers. It's not ideal, but I suspect they have limited resources. I wish there were a way for companies to pay into an escrow/bond/whatever to keep their HW products alive in case of failure. I was really sad when Zeo (sleep tracking EEG thing) died; couldn't get the website or replacement consumables :(
• denzil_correa 10y ago
  > Pebble’s Migicovsky is planning to rejoin startup incubator Y Combinator as a partner advising early-stage companies on hardware development, people with knowledge of the matter said. Y Combinator’s hardware head recently left, Bloomberg News reported last month. Pebble CEO seems to be joining YC. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to-discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-sa...
• ohyoutravel 10y ago
  I had two Basis (original and the newer one) watches and when they had a recall/shut down operations, they did a buy back of them. So I got a check for the original purchase price of each and mailed them into Basis. Now that I have a couple of presumably soon-to-be-useless Pebble watches sitting around, it would be nice if they did the same thing. I nearly ordered a Time 2, but am liking my Garmin Vivoactive HR, so thank goodness I didn't order one.
• trapperkeeper79 10y ago
  The iFixit was very interesting. It has a freakin FPGA?? A comment said it was there to drive the e-ink display, while the MCU slept. Any confirmation on that? Also, what the heck was the smart strap supposed to be? This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier watches but felt battery life was too limited).
  • slantyyz 10y ago
    >> This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier watches but felt battery life was too limited). Yeah this is sad. I had a Pebble 2 on my short list as a fitness tracker but went with something else. I liked that their devices didn't try to be too much. They were good at a few things and had a battery life I could live with.
    • RobotCaleb 10y ago
      What did you go with? I have Pebble 2 HR on my Christmas list. I had taken it off when these rumors started, but I couldn't find anything I liked more. I'm interested in Google Fit integration as I'm using that to track my runs.
      • secabeen 10y ago
        I'm pretty happy with the Garmin Vivosmart HR, but it doesn't have the Fit integration.
      • slantyyz 10y ago
        I went with a Xiaomi Mi Band 2. My main desire was for sleep tracking and Google Fit integration. It was dirt cheap and it's comfortable to wear while sleeping. The Xiaomi app integrates with Google Fit. I also have the Xiaomi smart scale, so I have been able to push all my info into Google Fit fairly seamlessly.
• amirmansour 10y ago
  If FitBit wants current Pebble users to be their future customers, they should definitely consider not making current Pebble devices useless. I understand this is not a trivial task, but it looks like FitBit mostly acquired Pebble's software engineers. So it would nice to see a new FitBit flavored OS update for Pebbles. The hardware is there, it just needs the software support. Pebble hardware with FitBit health/fitness services would a be great combo.
  • wvenable 10y ago
    Fitbit didn't buy Pebble; they don't own any of the services and they certainly cannot update the firmware for devices that belong to a different company. They just bought the software and maybe hired a few engineers (although I imagine a lot of jumped ship; I know at least one is going to Intel instead). Pebble will survive on the ingenuity of the community, not support of any company. Assuming anyone takes up the task.
• 627467 10y ago
  I'm still interested in getting a Time Round and/or Time Steel. I love my Pebble Time, and the best features I use it for do required any cloud support: alarm, watchfaces, music control (to fast rewind/forward when listening to podcasts while on bike), I mostly switch-off notifications, but even those, I believe, won't require cloud support.
• diego_moita 10y ago
  Pebbler here. There is an old Italian anarchist poem[0] that sings: "date fiori ai ribelli caduti", "give flowers to the fallen rebels". Flowers for you, rebels. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    So say we all.
    • djsumdog 10y ago
      So say we all.
• jotjotzzz8 10y ago
  I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million. And then that Intel offer, which is now a better deal than what Fitbit offered. There must be more to the story. I feel that the CEO bears the blame for letting this company down, could it be hubris? Can't wait to read more when this story comes out.
  • Mtinie 10y ago
    > I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million. Probably the usual story when things fall apart after looking so bright: hubris, greed, bad advice, due diligence that wasn't favorable, etc. Let's see which new hardware companies spawn out of this debacle.
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    I suppose that they believed then that they could succeed. Selling out almost always mean destroying the product and fucking the userbase over. Maybe they didn't want to do it until they had no other choice? At least that's what I want to believe about them; Pebble always seemed like an unique company in this market, trying to make a useful device instead of making money off selling trinkets.
  • wvenable 10y ago
    We don't really know how much of a real offer that was.
• digi_owl 10y ago
  I can't help but wonder if the whole timeline thing overcomplicated the pebble platform. I for one lost a bit of interest in the whole thing once i learned they where heading in that direction with future products.
• headgasket 10y ago
  This is so sad. I had the new time2 with the core on kickstarter. This would have been a truly innovative product, why oh why? I see on crunchbase they had only raised 15M-- so theres G$ available for a nth round of evernote or dropbox and not a few M$ to help these guys see it to market? This is a terrible day for innovation.
• ecesena 10y ago
  tl;dr: hardware won't be produced anymore (currently working hw will still work). Software will work on fitbit. Details here: https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-update/ https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-commu...
• distantsounds 10y ago
  "66,673 backers pledged $12,779,843 to help bring this project to life." Welp.
• linsomniac 10y ago
  Love the Pebble, so sad to see it go. I had one of the originals, and now have a Time Steel I love. Feel a little bit like they shot themselves in the foot because I'd have been willing to pay $200 for the watch, but there were tons of refurb ones for under $100 available, so that's the one my Fiance got me. I tried one of the Android watches, but hated it. The Pebble was soooo much better.
• sreenadh 10y ago
  Can one please explain in simple english what actually happened? I did read that fitbit was interested in buying pebble. I assumed it will be like apple buying beats, and pebble will continue as usual. Is fitbit shutting down pebble as pebble is a superior product over the crappy fitbits? The core strength of Pebble was its simple OS and energy efficient device. I hope they opensource the OS.
  • TeMPOraL 10y ago
    TL;DR: Pebble run out of money and can't fulfill orders anymore. Fitbit has bought their IP and has offered jobs to about 40% of Pebble's employees, while Pebble the company is shutting down. No orders will be fulfilled anymore; Kickstarter backers will get refunds. Fitbit is phasing out Pebble's product line. As for what they will do with the IP, only time will tell.
    • sreenadh 10y ago
      Thanks.
  • uiri 10y ago
    Pebble is bankrupt. It owes more money to people/companies than it has/is owed. People whom Pebble owes money to ("creditors") will be ordered in a list. FitBit is buying some of the assets (software, IP, etc.). The proceeds from this sale will go to their creditors, proceeding down the list. The creditors at the end of the list won't get any of the money that they are owed. The founders and investors walk away with nothing because the company's value is negative. Limited liability means that they are not personally on the hook for any of the debts. Pebble is winding down operations. Warranty, support, &c. stops because Pebble as an entity will cease to exist. FitBit isn't buying Pebble the entity, it is buying some of the things of value which Pebble the entity owned.
    • sreenadh 10y ago
      That makes sense. Pebble should post this message on their site. This is clear. Thanks a lot.
• CodexArcanum 10y ago
  I've been generally dissatisfied with the smart watch options in general, even more so than cell phones and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty bad! What factors prevent open source hardware from being viable? Like if the basic parts of the pebble (e-paper screens, small efficient processors, flat batteries, etc) were open hardware so that any number of manufacturers could just churn out the parts; and if there was a FOSS option for an OS to run that hardware; what prevents a vibrant community from forming around those options? We could have artisans putting together various nice watch options, and lots of little apps to run on them. Why don't we have that?
  • htrp 10y ago
    >and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty bad! Mind elaborating?
• hedora 10y ago
  Tldr: FitBit acquires() bankrupt pebble, lays of 60% of staff, cancels all pebble product lines. FitBit also cancels the warranties on already sold pebbles. FitBit may also have stiffed some holders of $27m of pebble's debt. () due to legal shenanigans we must not call this an acquisition or an acqui-hire. Also, FitBit didn't do those things, a shell company created by this deal did, which is totally different somehow. When things like this happen, I always hope that consumers that got screwed over by the deal (and people that hear about it) avoid the acquiring company after the fact. If they treat pebble customers like this, how will they treat their own customers later?
  • Fnoord 10y ago
    > When things like this happen, I always hope that consumers that got screwed over by the deal (and people that hear about it) avoid the acquiring company after the fact. If they treat pebble customers like this, how will they treat their own customers later? Well, the CEO of Pebble Technology, Corp is joining YC. Also, the services aren't shutting down right away. If everyone gets their money back, the major downside is the lack of warranty and the lack of fixes to the product. Especially any security & reliability fixes. As a Pebble 2 owner who is happy with the product as-is I am not sure if I should be happy I did receive my Pebble 2.
    • djsumdog 10y ago
      The trouble is all the apps come via the services. I hope they release some tools so you can at least install all the watchfaces; maybe give their repo/archives over to archive.org or some other entity that can at least maintain what's there even if you can't add anything new. This is the trouble with everything hosted in "the cloud" or where you have apps that need to be downloaded. If the company and distribution platform goes away, your device can become useless (or require way more effort to get working). It's like trying to play an old MMORPG you paid for years ago, but is gone today.
  • Tinyyy 10y ago
    Why does FitBit have the responsibility of providing support for another company’s products? If they didn’t buy Pebble, it would’ve shuttered anyways and they might not even refund the preorders.
• merpnderp 10y ago
  I'm sad I'm not getting my Time 2, but that is really awesome of them to refund my money from their Spring Kickstarter. They didn't have to do that, which is much appreciated.
• the_qbit 10y ago
  Right as I jumped on the bandwagon! Hurts. Hopefully they have some influence over fitbit. I want to be able to make apps and install / test from my OpenBSD box!
• mike-cardwell 10y ago
  Somebody pointed this out to me the other day: https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge I've not looked into it yet, but it is described as: "A free and cloudless replacement for your gadget vendors' closed source Android applications. Pebble and Mi Band supported." The feature list seems substantial. So hopefully we'll be able to continue to use our pebbles for some time.
  • nepfvkej 10y ago
    I don't know whether to applaud or criticize those who create open source software on unstable proprietary platforms, but if nothing else it shows what potential good greater openness would serve users.
    • djsumdog 10y ago
      Um...have you paid attention to the open source space for the past decade? Audium/Pidgin/libpurple all were originally created to have open source interfaces to close systems (MSN, AIM, Yahoo Messenger, etc). Most of the OSS work is about reverse engineering and creating open yet compatible tools to use with or in place of closed systems. If anything, projects like this can help keep Pebble watches alive after the demise of the company.
      • nepfvkej 10y ago
        I don't think we're in disagreement. There is end-user value at least in short term. But when efforts are expended to keep users engaged with and thus financially supportive of closed systems instead of building alternatives isn't that folly? None of the closed systems you mentioned exist in any meaningful form today and it's hard to imagine that a substantial number of Pidgin/Adium users began to sing the praises of XMPP rather than adopt another closed messaging system.
• TeMPOraL 10y ago
  I'm sad/angry/depressed as any Pebbler right now, so I won't repeat those comments. Instead, since this is HN after all, let me ask - what shall we do? In a year or two, when my current Pebble Time fails, I'd love an equivalent smartwatch to be available. Since the market doesn't seem to want it, how can we make it happen anyway? Features I'm looking for are, in order of priority: - always-on screen, preferably color (like Pebble Time), but monochromatic will do - open SDK for writing software for the watch - battery life at least the one like Pebble's - 5-7 days - *zero* dependency on cloud for it to work - basic, standard suite of sensors onboard - compass/magnetometer/accelerometer, maybe a mike - elegant form factor Now I can go the DIY route (I have a friend with experience in making smartwatches from ground-up, though I'd look at some SOCs instead of going the uC + separate sensors route - to save on watch size). Many of us here could do it. But honestly, I have shit ton of other stuff to do, and I'd rather pay for such a watch and enjoy the ecosystem, just like I did with Pebbles. And if everyone goes the DIY route, and there won't be some standardization along the way, there will be no community. Any idea how to coordinate and make this happen? Maybe a community, open-hardware design + crowdfunding for production?
  • codemac 10y ago
    How bad / hard is it to put our own software on a pebble? I think that would promote longevity more than looking for another "unicorn of Kickstarter"
    • kobeya 10y ago
      And when the current generation of pebbles die from planned obsolescence?
      • kobeya 10y ago
        I'm not understanding the downvotes. Pebble devices, as well built as they are, are using components that have definite lifetimes. They are not designed to last forever or be fully user serviceable. What do you do when the components fail?
• untilHellbanned 10y ago
  It's interesting that all 5 girls are at the front of company picture (bottom of page) with a sea of guys blending into the background obfuscating how male dominant this Pebble is. Serious question: Would more gender equality have improved this company's chances?
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• gnicholas 10y ago
  any idea how long before Fitbit can be expected to come out with a product that integrates some of Pebble's goodies? I have been waiting on a Time Steel 2 since June, but I don't want to wait another 12 months for the teams to integrate and a product to be released (and hope the first effort won't be a frankenwatch). I guess I'll have to look into the Apple Watch again—I didn't love it when I first tried it, but that was with the old OS and slow processor. Hope Fitbit can get something out the door before my Time Steel kicks the bucket!
• headgasket 10y ago
  I also blame Apple. When you are a 1T$ company, I think it's a social responsibility to not be ruthless in your pricing with small innovating competitors running on the midnight oil. It's a page out of MS playbook. I feel like a traitor for owning an apple watch. But at this rate, with their ipadification (dropped all ports off the mbp) and product lineup explosion, Apple is going where it was in the 90s anyway...
  • heisenbit 10y ago
    Pricing wise Pebble and iWatch were in a different league. The price of the Pebble was determined by Pebble judging the demand and their ability to manufacture and supply at a certain cost. Almost all the profits in the cell phone, laptop and digital watch business flow to Apple. In no category they are playing in the lower priced band. It seems to me like manufacturing in the lower/medium price band is a commodity. Ability to generate sustainable profit - absent of strong branding - is limited.
  • Naritai 10y ago
    I've seen a lot of criticism of the Apple Watch on HN, but never before have I sent it asserted that the pricing was predatorily low...
• dudisbrie 10y ago
  What a great story from Kickstarter's most valuable player to a debt monster that make every of its loyal customer angry
• kolemcrae 10y ago
  I got royally screwed. Yesterday my 4 month old Pebble Time Round burned my wrist and killed itself, today they announce they no loner honour the warranty.
• mathrawka 10y ago
  A month before they made this announcement, I ordered a Time Steel. I waited 3 weeks for shipping, and the tracking code they sent me remained in "Waiting for package from shipper" Then one day I got an email from their support saying the package was returned to sender.... sure, they just didn't send it. I requested the order to be cancelled, but was ignored until I said I want the refund or will do a chargeback. I contacted my friend that worked there and he said he was not surprised, their support team was being disbanded and he and his team received an offer to work elsewhere. Too bad, Pebble was my favorite smartwatch out there (original one is dead) and now I am stuck watchless because the only decent options are watches that are 1 or 2 years old.
• dragonwriter 10y ago
  "Warranty support is no longer available" -- if items were purchased with a warranty, isn't that straight up breach of contract, for which Pebble (well, Fitbit, which bought Pebble and thus inherits its liabilities) will be liable?
  • wvenable 10y ago
    Fitbit didn't buy Pebble. They bought the OS and they're trying to acquire some of their staff. Pebble is simply shutting down.
    • dragonwriter 10y ago
      Ah, I misread or misremembered the earlier news. That makes more sense.
      • wvenable 10y ago
        The news was all "Fitbit buying Pebble" for the last few weeks but nobody had any details nor confirmation. It was all rumors and speculation.
• dom96 10y ago
  Many people seem to be calling for the release of Pebble OS source code. Of course that is unlikely to happen. So how about instead we reimplement it under a FOSS license? Ever since I heard the rumours about this acquisition, I started wondering just how difficult that would be to do. I'm sure there are plenty of you here with experience in these types of things, is this a good idea or a waste of time?
  • kobeya 10y ago
    Good idea. Get on it.
• iblaine 10y ago
  I'm not sure how to react to this news. I have 3 pebble watches and 2 of them are broken. If fitbit can fix the pebble quality problem then I may buy more.
• pfooti 10y ago
  Well, this sucks. I really don't want a fitbit - I like the pebble formfactor and legit use it as a notifier. If I wanted a fitness tracker, I'd get a $15 pedometer. I backed and received a pebble2 to replace my pebble1. (as a Under some circumstances, I'd be fine just ignoring the acquisition and continuing to use my p2. The real problem is when the pebble integrations stop working. If that happens in a few months, I'm not going to be particularly happy. I get that kickstarter is a gamble, as is buying products from marginal manufacturers. But the pebble really is a product that doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. Can anyone recommend a wearable that: 1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc) 2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions 3) controls my music stream 4) lasts for a week+ on one charge 5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic)
  • dragonwriter 10y ago
    Interesting, except for #2, the Fitbit Surge seems to meet all of those (might be slightly short on #4.) From what I hear, the Fitbit Blaze (basically a color screen Surge without independent GPS so that a phone is needed for location) actually has a hit longer battery life in normal use. The Surge seemed to clearly indicate that they were interested in doing more than trackers, the Blaze seems to indicate that they realize that prioritizing what people want in a smartwatch over things that make sense in aprimarily fitness tracker is going to be important to a large segment of the market. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see a near-future Fitbit that ticks all your boxes.
  • nathan_f77 10y ago
    Check out the Vector Watch: http://vectorwatch.com/ http://vectorwatch.com/ 1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc) Yes, although I'm not sure what you mean by "full" notifications. 2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions I couldn't find anything about that, so it doesn't look like it supports that yet. But I assume that it is being developed. 3) controls my music stream Yes. 4) lasts for a week+ on one charge One charge lasts for 30 days (!) 5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic) Yes. Disclaimer: I only found out about this watch a few hours ago, but a lot of other Pebble users are pointing to this one as an alternative. It looks great though, and I'm thinking about getting one.
• JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  I wanted that Pebble core. This is sad. I sincerely hope all the Pebble employees are able to transition to other jobs with minimal impact to their lives. Good luck in your future endeavors!
• wenbin 10y ago
  Just read previous posts on https://blog.getpebble.com/ https://blog.getpebble.com/ . Man, you really can't tell whether a startup is doing well or not from outside. Everything's AWESOME all the time: * Oct 31, 2016: Get Spooky with Halloween Pebble Faces! * Oct 18, 2016: What’s New in Pebble’s 4.2 Firmware and Apps * Oct 05, 2016: Pebble 2: Fit & Smart * Sep 30, 2016: Pebble 2 Kickstarter Rewards Start Shipping * Sep 14, 2016: Pebble Core = More Awesome with Amazon Alexa Expansion in the UK and Germany ... and then suddenly making big headline: "Dec 7, 2016: Pebble's next step".
  • Ezhik 10y ago
    Apparently if they don't blog for a while, things are bad.
    • jtmarmon 10y ago
      "Going bankrupt" canary
    • mmagin 10y ago
      Actually, I see a Nov 22 post on that page.
• deegles 10y ago
  Did Pebble employees have stock options? Is there any money left for them?
  • ohsnapman 10y ago
    > The deal will mean the Pebble stock held by employees is worthless, two of the people said. The money will instead go to debt holders, vendors, some of its main equity investors, and Kickstarter refunds for the Time 2 and Pebble Core orders, the people said. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to-discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-sa...
• scblock 10y ago
  Considering that Pebble is stopping product development, cancelling orders, ending warranties, ending support, and essentially completely shutting down I find the positive tone of this post and the Kickstarter update post to be nearly unbelievable. I know we see plenty of "our incredible journey" posts filled with optimism, but euphemistic language and dozens of photos of watches and happy people and more watches is jarring. It's not a shame to try hard at something and fail. But it is a shame to fail and pretend you succeeded. We can see through you.
  • reneherse 10y ago
    Indeed, the tone, headline, and imagery are bizarrely incongruous to the gravity of the message. I have to assume that internally they're just trying to make sense of a difficult situation and PR is not one of their strengths. One recalls that the first stage of grief is denial...
  • vnchr 10y ago
    They might have gotten a relatively lucrative deal with FitBit by way of an asset sale with hiring bonuses for transitioning staff, enough for them to abandon their current efforts without any sort of Hail Mary fundraising or outreach to their customer base. This doesn't seem like an act of desperation to me, and if that's the case then they would have to down-play internal celebration since such a deal negatively impacts their user base. As for Fitbit, they don't have to honor warranties or fulfill orders for Pebble if they scrap the company while still getting what they want. They are competitors, so even if Pebble had strong cash flows worth maintaining, it's still a competing product line they might have eventually consolidated. Cut out the middle man. Buy the assets you want to keep. Avoid the liabilities. Tell customers whatever you think they need to hear.
• LeanderK 10y ago
  this blog post is absurd. They are shutting down, not manufacturing/selling stuffy anymore. It's over, the bubble popped, icarus flew too high and crashed. And yet everybody having fun with their pebbles on the pictures. Also featured: the energetic team, the diverse ecosystem with lots of developers. This is absurd. The only thing missing is the "our incredible journey"-phrase. The whole blog-post if marketing BS, even the headline is a lie. "Pebble's next step", there is no next step, it's over for pebble! Some might work for fitbit in the future, but pebble is dead. They don't explain why and how, they are just glorifying their past and don't admit any mistakes.
• robhanlon 10y ago
  https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pebble https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pe...
• nepfvkej 10y ago
  Yet again, open-source to the rescue. Current pebble users should look into Gadgetbridge[1]. Wrist computer enthusiasts trying to avoid future bricks should seek out and support projects like AsteroidOS[2]. [1]https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/ https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/ [2]http://asteroidos.org http://asteroidos.org
• lgleason 10y ago
  The wearables market is trying to find it's sustainable model at the moment and we are at the low point of the hype cycle. Part of the issue has to do with the business model with hardware devices like this. IE: A one time hardware purchase that needs to fund all further software updates etc. and the reliance on continually selling new hardware to stay in business. Then there was the issue of needing to learn another dev stack to write applications with it vs the Apple or Google offerings that leverage Android and IOS development skills. Right now the largest market in the space is with simple devices such as fitness trackers. The disappointing thing is that Fitbit isn't as open with their bluetooth stack/Gatt profiles, but that's another discussion.
• rahoulb 10y ago
  I'm genuinely saddened by this. My Time Round is the only smart watch I've found that looks like a real watch (THIN) - they seemed to be the only ones that understood all the functionality in the world means nothing if you've got an ugly brick strapped to your wrist. (And as for a screen that only switches on when you raise your wrist - it's like those people have no idea what a watch is for)
• takeda 10y ago
  I'm starting to think that perhaps kickstart (or another kickstart like service should be created) should only back projects that are open source (source code of software, designs of hardware etc.). Right now, when people are backing projects it essentially comes down to store like behavior, where you essentially purchasing a product and are not even guaranteed to receive it. If kickstarted products would instead be open, community would own them, and many of them could continue to thrive. Pebble seems like is a product that would be much more successful if it was open sourced.
• xs 10y ago
  I don't consider Pebble to be a startup anymore. I'm not sure why so many comments here use that term. They have found a repeatable, stable, and scalable business model that works and have been successful with it for years. Their watches are sold in Best Buy, Target, Walmart and other retail stores. Once you hit that level of main stream popularity I would say you're no longer a startup. It was shocking to me to see Kickstarters for Pebble after their initial watch came out. After they had already been for sales in major retail stores. They should have solidified their business model by then and been profitable already. I feel like Kickstarter should be there to get your initial idea launched and if you can't take flight from there, don't do another. Anyway, huge Pebble fan here, super sad to see them mismanage their assets that resulted in this.
• ausjke 10y ago
  what's the core reason, wearable is not as popular as it is thought to be? too early for the generic public? Apple iwatch competition? something else?
• cableshaft 10y ago
  I'd love to see a P2P style open cloud service created, where companies that use cloud services can use that instead, and then even if their company fails or has to shut down their own support of their services, their products can live on with the P2P cloud. (Or, even if it's just an auto-graceful downgrade solution, like it hits their servers first, but if that's not available it tries the other). For example, I once worked on a multiplayer iOS game about collaboratively writing stories based on keywords, and we were going to create a service to do it, but in the end decided to use the built-in asynchronous turn support in iOS GameKit. Eventually the company folded, and if we had done our own service, the game would be completely unplayable. But because we used Apple's built-in services, it's still playable today, even though the company is gone, and even though the app is no longer on the app store. That's kind of what I'm thinking, but instead of Apple providing that service, it's an Open Cloud service. I was even thinking of writing an API to play mobile apps via email, where JSON strings of game turn data being passed back and forth via email, possibly via dedicated email addresses that the apps are given user/passwords to. Since email is a basic protocol that isn't likely to go away anytime soon, it seemed like a good tech to base that on.
• engi_nerd 10y ago
  Why do these companies always phrase it as "our next step" or "what we're doing next"? As far as the outside world is concerned, Pebble is dead. There is no "next step". Maybe those same people will go on to work with Fitbit to make similar products, but they are abandoning their existing product. I hate spin for the sake of public relations.
• delroekid 10y ago
  damn.. i felt bad about this
• gabrielcsapo 10y ago
  Open source what should have originally been open sourced?
• imode 10y ago
  in the words of Jason Scott... "I can summarize this for you... uh... ..."FUCK"... and uh.. "YOU"." another victim of "our incredible journey."
• sundvor 10y ago
  Well I for one am extremely sad about this. I had the Pebble Steel, stolen, then Pebble Time Steel and now also the Pebble 2, with a Pebble Time 2 on order. I've loved Pebble from the first day I read about their original kickstarter. Gutted to learn I'll never get my Time 2.. was it a manufacturing defect that sunk the company? At any rate I just found and placed an order for a white Pebble 2 for my wife. I was going to wait a bit, but didn't want to take any chances on getting her one now. Love the contrast of my lime / grey one. I can't see anything replacing the Pebble now; nothing else offers week long battery life and always on display. Thanks to all the engineers and programmers for the work you've put in. I feel sad for how it all panned out.