17 ms·

“You have to be very careful when you select and use aloe products,” said Tod Cooperman, president of White Plains, New York-based ConsumerLab.com, which has do

by dfar1 10y ago

“You have to be very careful when you select and use aloe products,” said Tod Cooperman, president of White Plains, New York-based ConsumerLab.com, which has done aloe testing. -- And how am supposed to be careful? Should I run my own lab to test every product I use?

thatcat 10y ago
Much easier to just grow an aloe plant in your bathroom
- puddintane 10y ago
  This is exactly what I do, it's fairly easy compared to other plants. As well as it feels much more soothing without all the extra additives for keeping freshness.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    > it's fairly easy compared to other plants For a few months, I've tried killing an Aloe Vera plant that shared a place with some other species. That is a hard task. In the end, after every other plant died, I dug it up, and made it into pieces with a saw, so I could move it. I gave 3 pieces to a friend, that now owns 3 fully healthy Aloe Vera plants.
- drvdevd 10y ago
  My thoughts exactly. It's a fairly set and forget plant and looks pretty cool as well.
- riphay 10y ago
  I think that misses the point of the comment. You don't establish confidence in a system by just ignoring it and doing it yourself. If you take your logic to its natural conclusion, we should all just farm our own food as it's the only way to trust it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - thatcat 10y ago
    Exactly. Branding is devaluing itself. Distributed systems in which you interact personally become less complicated than verifying an unknown substance. If every plant was as easy to grow as an aloe, this would totally scale, unfortunately this is not the case. It's a succulent so you never have to water them, use very little nutrients and require little light. I haven't watered mine in like 3 months, it's fine.
Alex3917 10y ago
> Should I run my own lab to test every product I use? Subscribe to one of the companies that do independent lab testing of consumer products and/or supplements. Also, buy some field guides. You should be able to find medicinal plants for almost any condition within a couple miles of wherever you live. Wild Edibles Forage is the best app in this category for iOS. (In this case whether or not the plant/mushroom actually treats the condition is irrelevant if you were already planning on purchasing the same thing from the store.)
- bowmessage 10y ago
  where do you live...?
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    I live in the Bronx and work in Manhattan. You're obviously not going to find aloe growing in central park, but there are at least half a dozen other plants there that can be used to treat minor burns and other skin conditions. E.g. plantago, jewelweed, witch hazel, etc. According to at least one prominent American zen buddhist, the secret to the good life is, "stay together, learn the flowers, go light." This isn't some sort of metaphor, go outside.
    - mattdotc 10y ago
      Surely you aren't suggesting that New Yorkers should forage in Central Park...it's a public space, not your privately-owned backyard.
      - gkop 10y ago
        People have foraged in Central Park since it was first built. Yes foraging can cause problems, but it hasn't ruined the park, and there are benefits.
      - Alex3917 10y ago
        > It's a public space, not your privately-owned backyard. If you're collecting invasive plants then you're basically doing free community service. Obviously you shouldn't uproot native plants, although picking taking fruit from them isn't harmful, nor is taking foliage when done in limited amounts.
macintux 10y ago
One of the failings of the libertarian ideal. There's no way for even an informed consumer to have any idea what most of their purchases contain, what safety issues they have, how effective they really are, etc.
- gambiting 10y ago
  In the EU if something is called "Greek yoghurt" it has to come from Greece. Otherwise it's "greek-style yoghurt". Similarily, if something is called "aloe vera juice" it has to contain aloe vera. Really simple, yet I've had many comments on HN opposing the idea of making it law(especially from US, weirdly).
  - module0000 10y ago
    > I've had many comments on HN opposing the idea of making it law It's common here(in the US) for "Greek yogurt" to mean Greek-style yogurt, and we would all ask "why!?" when confronted with that regulation. However, when you read stories like this - maybe that kind of regulation is needed. I've been buying aloe from walmart/target/etc for ages, and always assumed that the ingredient list wasn't a lie - now I realize that is not always true. edit: typo
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Wait. It's trickier than that because you have to get your product acknowledged by the EU then you get to be authorised to use that name (if your product is compliant with the rules ofc). It's not automatic. Among other things it was one of the point of contention regarding CETA/TTIP.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      No, you're thinking of regional products. So for example, there's one specific type of cheese made in one region of Polish mountains that is called "oscypek" and no other cheese can be called "oscypek", even if it's made by the same methods(or I guess a more well known example is that only sparkling wine made in Champagne region of France can be called "Champagne" legally). What I am talking about is that every product in EU has to be what it says on the label - so Greek yoghurt has to be from Greece. French wine has to be from France. Apple juice has to contains apple juice, not just apple flavouring, etc etc.
rconti 10y ago
Consumer Reports, for one.
Johnny555 10y ago
I think they mean you're supposed to look for the unnatural fluorescent green color that so many of these manufacturers add to these products to show how natural it is. (even though the natural aloe juice is nearly colorless)
will_brown 10y ago
In the specific case of Aloe it's not out of the question to grow your own or at least buy unprocessed aloe leaves in a supermarket.
FireBeyond 10y ago
"“Acemannan has been misinterpreted,’’ Meadows said. “The cosmetics industry requires highly processed aloe. How that affects acemannan is anybody’s guess.’’" You work for a company that supplies aloe to the cosmetics industry. The 'anybody' in 'anybody's guess' is ... you.
ChuckMcM 10y ago
It becomes entirely a brand thing and is the original value proposition for brand names. By offering trade mark and trade dress protection for brand names it allows a manufacturer to make available test results, and to periodically inspect/test product for compliance with those results, so that the customer's expectations will be met. These days people buy the "kirkland signature[1]" product and two things are true, the person most responsible for putting that product on the shelf in front of you is motivated by cutting manufacturing cost and maximizing profit above all other concerns, even whether or not the product resembles at all what the packaging says it does. They are not aligned with your desire for a quality product. If you are a discerning customer you will find that the actual ingredients of, and quality, of a product with a house brand varies from state to state and year to year. That is an effect of the 'buyer' shopping around a contract to manufacturers, domestic and abroad, who will maximize their profit. Of course that doesn't mean that if you buy a "brand name" that you are getting the best product. But at least the manufacturer is invested in the quality when it has their name on it and reasonably aligned with the consumer's interests. That goes out the window when it is someone else's name on the end product. [1] This is the CostCo "house brand" for products they have sourced through a variety of manufacturers.
- brownbat 10y ago
  As a counterexample, Kirkland Signature's extra virgin olive oil fares really well in independent lab tests, while still being low cost: http://www.laweekly.com/restaurants/best-bargain-extra-virgin-olive-oil-costco-kirkland-organic-2378295 http://www.laweekly.com/restaurants/best-bargain-extra-virgi... But you're right, brands are supposed to promise consistency, not quality. A McDonald's burger should be basically the same at any rest stop, that's one of the reasons they took off. Some brands don't even offer that though.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
You might not need to be careful. I find it pretty disgusting that the products don't seem to contain the stuff they claim to contain. So avoid some products on this principle, certainly, and hope the others hold up to their ingredient list: Alternatively, an aloe plant will help a little or for sunburns, something with lidocaine if you aren't opposed to that will actually work (FDA drug label and all those protections with that variety). However, it seems that the article mentions that a food additive seems to be the preferred substitute - it is likely that the products are safe, even if they weren't the aloe they were claiming. Furthermore, they probably work for immediate relief and moisturization (though possibly not in the healing bit found in some studies [1]). Unless you've skin sensitivities, buy away if whatever happens to be in the product meets your needs. [1]https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe
hinkley 10y ago
I figure before I'm too old the breathe there'll be someone selling a tricorder to rich people to do exactly that. Is that real crab in your crab Rangoon? Does it have mercury? How much? Red tide toxins? You can never be too sure!
sqldba 10y ago
1) Always assume that you are being lied to. 2) Gather evidence that can be used to prove whether claims are true or not. 3) Make your purchasing decision. If you think about it this is not that crazy. When you buy one of these products from the store you are entirely relying on the manufacturing claiming it has Aloe. Evidence? Absolutely zero. Do they publish anything on the bottle certifying it has aloe? If they did then you'd want to be able to look up fact sheets and such about where, how, and when it is tested. If the company doesn't provide them it's because they're lying. If they do provide them, it may still be falsified, but you have a higher degree of certainty than you do reading the bottle. So you don't buy it. "But I have to put something on my skin! I might be missing out! They could all be lying about something!" isn't much of an excuse. Coming from the POV that they're all lying, you aren't missing out, until they prove otherwise. With every purchase you're actually taking a losing gamble on the possibility that they're telling the truth, when they've got no reason to do so and provide no evidence to the contrary.
tripzilch 10y ago
> Should I run my own lab to test every product I use? no you just look at the mandated ingredient list which is required to say "Aloe Vera x%" is it has one of the ingredients as part of the name of the product. mind you that x is probably less than 2 or so. I kind of wonder, since this apparently isn't mandatory in the US, are people aware that if you buy fruit juice of say pomegranate or cranberry or acai or mango, it's almost always more than 75% apple or white grape juice, and probably less than 5% of the fruit listed, yes? I mean it's clearly on our labels and I still think it's a scam, but what if you can't even know.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Uh... No. The whole issue here is the ingredients list says it contains aloe but the label is lying. "The products all listed aloe barbadensis leaf juice — another name for aloe vera — as either the No. 1 ingredient or No. 2 after water."

by dfar1 10y ago

thatcat 10y ago

Much easier to just grow an aloe plant in your bathroom

puddintane 10y ago
This is exactly what I do, it's fairly easy compared to other plants. As well as it feels much more soothing without all the extra additives for keeping freshness.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  > it's fairly easy compared to other plants For a few months, I've tried killing an Aloe Vera plant that shared a place with some other species. That is a hard task. In the end, after every other plant died, I dug it up, and made it into pieces with a saw, so I could move it. I gave 3 pieces to a friend, that now owns 3 fully healthy Aloe Vera plants.
drvdevd 10y ago
My thoughts exactly. It's a fairly set and forget plant and looks pretty cool as well.
riphay 10y ago
I think that misses the point of the comment. You don't establish confidence in a system by just ignoring it and doing it yourself. If you take your logic to its natural conclusion, we should all just farm our own food as it's the only way to trust it.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thatcat 10y ago
  Exactly. Branding is devaluing itself. Distributed systems in which you interact personally become less complicated than verifying an unknown substance. If every plant was as easy to grow as an aloe, this would totally scale, unfortunately this is not the case. It's a succulent so you never have to water them, use very little nutrients and require little light. I haven't watered mine in like 3 months, it's fine.

Alex3917 10y ago

> Should I run my own lab to test every product I use? Subscribe to one of the companies that do independent lab testing of consumer products and/or supplements. Also, buy some field guides. You should be able to find medicinal plants for almost any condition within a couple miles of wherever you live. Wild Edibles Forage is the best app in this category for iOS. (In this case whether or not the plant/mushroom actually treats the condition is irrelevant if you were already planning on purchasing the same thing from the store.)

bowmessage 10y ago
where do you live...?
- Alex3917 10y ago
  I live in the Bronx and work in Manhattan. You're obviously not going to find aloe growing in central park, but there are at least half a dozen other plants there that can be used to treat minor burns and other skin conditions. E.g. plantago, jewelweed, witch hazel, etc. According to at least one prominent American zen buddhist, the secret to the good life is, "stay together, learn the flowers, go light." This isn't some sort of metaphor, go outside.
  - mattdotc 10y ago
    Surely you aren't suggesting that New Yorkers should forage in Central Park...it's a public space, not your privately-owned backyard.
    - gkop 10y ago
      People have foraged in Central Park since it was first built. Yes foraging can cause problems, but it hasn't ruined the park, and there are benefits.
    - Alex3917 10y ago
      > It's a public space, not your privately-owned backyard. If you're collecting invasive plants then you're basically doing free community service. Obviously you shouldn't uproot native plants, although picking taking fruit from them isn't harmful, nor is taking foliage when done in limited amounts.

macintux 10y ago

One of the failings of the libertarian ideal. There's no way for even an informed consumer to have any idea what most of their purchases contain, what safety issues they have, how effective they really are, etc.

gambiting 10y ago
In the EU if something is called "Greek yoghurt" it has to come from Greece. Otherwise it's "greek-style yoghurt". Similarily, if something is called "aloe vera juice" it has to contain aloe vera. Really simple, yet I've had many comments on HN opposing the idea of making it law(especially from US, weirdly).
- module0000 10y ago
  > I've had many comments on HN opposing the idea of making it law It's common here(in the US) for "Greek yogurt" to mean Greek-style yogurt, and we would all ask "why!?" when confronted with that regulation. However, when you read stories like this - maybe that kind of regulation is needed. I've been buying aloe from walmart/target/etc for ages, and always assumed that the ingredient list wasn't a lie - now I realize that is not always true. edit: typo
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  Wait. It's trickier than that because you have to get your product acknowledged by the EU then you get to be authorised to use that name (if your product is compliant with the rules ofc). It's not automatic. Among other things it was one of the point of contention regarding CETA/TTIP.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    No, you're thinking of regional products. So for example, there's one specific type of cheese made in one region of Polish mountains that is called "oscypek" and no other cheese can be called "oscypek", even if it's made by the same methods(or I guess a more well known example is that only sparkling wine made in Champagne region of France can be called "Champagne" legally). What I am talking about is that every product in EU has to be what it says on the label - so Greek yoghurt has to be from Greece. French wine has to be from France. Apple juice has to contains apple juice, not just apple flavouring, etc etc.

rconti 10y ago

Consumer Reports, for one.

Johnny555 10y ago

I think they mean you're supposed to look for the unnatural fluorescent green color that so many of these manufacturers add to these products to show how natural it is. (even though the natural aloe juice is nearly colorless)

will_brown 10y ago

In the specific case of Aloe it's not out of the question to grow your own or at least buy unprocessed aloe leaves in a supermarket.

FireBeyond 10y ago

"“Acemannan has been misinterpreted,’’ Meadows said. “The cosmetics industry requires highly processed aloe. How that affects acemannan is anybody’s guess.’’" You work for a company that supplies aloe to the cosmetics industry. The 'anybody' in 'anybody's guess' is ... you.

ChuckMcM 10y ago

It becomes entirely a brand thing and is the original value proposition for brand names. By offering trade mark and trade dress protection for brand names it allows a manufacturer to make available test results, and to periodically inspect/test product for compliance with those results, so that the customer's expectations will be met. These days people buy the "kirkland signature[1]" product and two things are true, the person most responsible for putting that product on the shelf in front of you is motivated by cutting manufacturing cost and maximizing profit above all other concerns, even whether or not the product resembles at all what the packaging says it does. They are not aligned with your desire for a quality product. If you are a discerning customer you will find that the actual ingredients of, and quality, of a product with a house brand varies from state to state and year to year. That is an effect of the 'buyer' shopping around a contract to manufacturers, domestic and abroad, who will maximize their profit. Of course that doesn't mean that if you buy a "brand name" that you are getting the best product. But at least the manufacturer is invested in the quality when it has their name on it and reasonably aligned with the consumer's interests. That goes out the window when it is someone else's name on the end product. [1] This is the CostCo "house brand" for products they have sourced through a variety of manufacturers.

brownbat 10y ago
As a counterexample, Kirkland Signature's extra virgin olive oil fares really well in independent lab tests, while still being low cost: http://www.laweekly.com/restaurants/best-bargain-extra-virgin-olive-oil-costco-kirkland-organic-2378295 http://www.laweekly.com/restaurants/best-bargain-extra-virgi... But you're right, brands are supposed to promise consistency, not quality. A McDonald's burger should be basically the same at any rest stop, that's one of the reasons they took off. Some brands don't even offer that though.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

You might not need to be careful. I find it pretty disgusting that the products don't seem to contain the stuff they claim to contain. So avoid some products on this principle, certainly, and hope the others hold up to their ingredient list: Alternatively, an aloe plant will help a little or for sunburns, something with lidocaine if you aren't opposed to that will actually work (FDA drug label and all those protections with that variety). However, it seems that the article mentions that a food additive seems to be the preferred substitute - it is likely that the products are safe, even if they weren't the aloe they were claiming. Furthermore, they probably work for immediate relief and moisturization (though possibly not in the healing bit found in some studies [1]). Unless you've skin sensitivities, buy away if whatever happens to be in the product meets your needs. [1]https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/aloe

hinkley 10y ago

I figure before I'm too old the breathe there'll be someone selling a tricorder to rich people to do exactly that. Is that real crab in your crab Rangoon? Does it have mercury? How much? Red tide toxins? You can never be too sure!

sqldba 10y ago

1) Always assume that you are being lied to. 2) Gather evidence that can be used to prove whether claims are true or not. 3) Make your purchasing decision. If you think about it this is not that crazy. When you buy one of these products from the store you are entirely relying on the manufacturing claiming it has Aloe. Evidence? Absolutely zero. Do they publish anything on the bottle certifying it has aloe? If they did then you'd want to be able to look up fact sheets and such about where, how, and when it is tested. If the company doesn't provide them it's because they're lying. If they do provide them, it may still be falsified, but you have a higher degree of certainty than you do reading the bottle. So you don't buy it. "But I have to put something on my skin! I might be missing out! They could all be lying about something!" isn't much of an excuse. Coming from the POV that they're all lying, you aren't missing out, until they prove otherwise. With every purchase you're actually taking a losing gamble on the possibility that they're telling the truth, when they've got no reason to do so and provide no evidence to the contrary.

tripzilch 10y ago

> Should I run my own lab to test every product I use? no you just look at the mandated ingredient list which is required to say "Aloe Vera x%" is it has one of the ingredients as part of the name of the product. mind you that x is probably less than 2 or so. I kind of wonder, since this apparently isn't mandatory in the US, are people aware that if you buy fruit juice of say pomegranate or cranberry or acai or mango, it's almost always more than 75% apple or white grape juice, and probably less than 5% of the fruit listed, yes? I mean it's clearly on our labels and I still think it's a scam, but what if you can't even know.

nommm-nommm 10y ago
Uh... No. The whole issue here is the ingredients list says it contains aloe but the label is lying. "The products all listed aloe barbadensis leaf juice — another name for aloe vera — as either the No. 1 ingredient or No. 2 after water."