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Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

• amariyappa 10y ago
  any alternative aggregator ??
  • kinleyd 10y ago
    http://www.idope.se/ http://www.idope.se/ looks pretty decent.
    • moretrees 10y ago
      I haven't found anything on the internet regarding idope.se but it seems to be pretty nice. I suppose you're the admin? How sure are you that "servers never go down"?
      • kinleyd 10y ago
        No, not the admin. Just been searching around since kat's been gone.
        • moretrees 10y ago
          It's not really an alternative to torrentz though, is it? As far I can see, it only has kat torrents. It does not list other public trackers..
          • kinleyd 10y ago
            Yes, that's right. It's worked for me as a reasonable replacement for kat for now. Also, the site isn't anywhere near as good as kat but I'm sure given a little more time they'll improve. Or someone else will come up with something even better - I'm sure these folks will have learned alot about what to do or not do when running such sites.
      • click170 10y ago
        It does appear to require Javascript for something as simple as search, that's disappointing. Allowing Javascript can be iffy on most sites these days, but torrent sites are one category I refuse to whitelist, so that's a deal breaker for me. KAT and torrentz were both usable without Javascript, let's not take a step backwards in usability.
        • idope2016 10y ago
          Hi~~Thank you for your comment~~Are you sure about KAT and torrentz not requiring Javascript though?
      • idope2016 10y ago
        No @kinleyd is not the admin, I AM :p This project was developed the next day after we knew KAT was taken down, it's very very new, and we are a very small team, so you won't find anything about it on the Internet, especially when we never promoted it decently We only intended to make simple products that everyone can enjoy, we don’t make bucks out of it, and thus we promise no annoying pop-up Ads. Regarding the server-never-go-down thing, the server provider we chose will protect our servers even from hurricanes, earthquakes, nuclear bombs…Honestly idk how they are capable of that, sounds pretty badass.
        • aorth 10y ago
          Not bad. Y u no HTTPS?
          • idope2016 10y ago
            we did adopt HTTPS :p pls try https://www.idope.se https://www.idope.se
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    • idope2016 10y ago
      Thank you for recommending us :D We really appreciate it!
      • kinleyd 10y ago
        The pleasure is all mine. It's looking good - I'm looking forward to seeing it evolve in the days ahead. And take care.
  • known 10y ago
    Google filetype:torrent
  • drops 10y ago
    qBittorrent client has an in-built search engine
    • Svenskunganka 10y ago
      Do you know how it works? Does it use the DHT or is there a central tracker/index somewhere?
      • curiousgal 10y ago
        It just uses different search providers. You can see the list when you enable/disable search plugins. https://github.com/qbittorrent/qBittorrent/wiki/Unofficial-search-plugins https://github.com/qbittorrent/qBittorrent/wiki/Unofficial-s...
  • HugoDaniel 10y ago
    Try http://www.toorgle.com/ http://www.toorgle.com/
  • awqrre 10y ago
    http://extratorrent.cc/ http://extratorrent.cc/, http://www.t411.ch/ http://www.t411.ch/
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• cmdrfred 10y ago
  Damn. Used this site everyday since in arrived on the scene.
• tener 10y ago
  Could it be it has suddently became illegal due to some novel interpretation of existing laws?
  • Svenskunganka 10y ago
    Could be, but it doesn't seem likely considering torrents themselves are not illegal, it's what they point to that might be illegal. But then again, I wonder why trackers are seen as illegal? They're nothing more than what a router is.
    • nothrabannosir 10y ago
      Technological reality doesn't matter in law. What matters is whether you facilitate crime or not.
      • Svenskunganka 10y ago
        I agree, but the case with torrents and trackers is such a gray area. Shouldn't routers be illegal since they help facilitate crime? If not, why should trackers? I'm just playing with thoughts, interested in seeing what people think.
        • pjc50 10y ago
          This question was actually addressed in the EU copyright directive: Article 5 Exceptions and limitations 1. Temporary acts of reproduction referred to in Article 2, which are transient or incidental [and] an integral and essential part of a technological process and whose sole purpose is to enable: (a) a transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary, or (b) a lawful use of a work or other subject-matter to be made, and which have no independent economic significance, shall be exempted from the reproduction right provided for in Article 2. .. explicitly exempts the copies made by routers in the course of their operation.
          • deleted 10y ago
            [deleted]
• derefr 10y ago
  Oh wow, what's going on with torrent sites lately? I feel like we're "running out" of them somehow.
  • Svenskunganka 10y ago
    It's a tricky business running a torrent site. Unless it is fully decentralized, it can be shut down fairly easily. Starting a torrent site using the HTTP & DNS protocols is a lost cause. HTTP can be worked around, but DNS is very problematic. I think we'll see more and more torrent sites show up that leverages IPFS[1] or ZeroNet[2], but the second the main browser vendors adds support for something like IPNS (decentralized alternative to DNS), torrent sites will have won the battle with MPAA, RIAA and other IP and DMCA enforcers. Considering the grip that the movie studios has around the vendors, it is very unlikely that it will happen. [1] - https://ipfs.io/ https://ipfs.io/ [2] - https://zeronet.io/ https://zeronet.io/
    • jjn2009 10y ago
      DNS appears to have a decent amount of decentralization, otherwise what use would it have been to switch around TLDs for the pirate bay?
      • Svenskunganka 10y ago
        Yes it is decentralized, but it relies on central authorities to work, which in turn relies on a stable, cross-border legal system - which many believes is currently not in a good state (see Freak_NL's response for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12230903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12230903 ). People have different views on this of course, but I think we all can agree that it needs a major overhaul to make the majority happy (the legal system that is).
    • jpalomaki 10y ago
      I believe the main problem is how the site owner can remain anonymous and still collect the advertising revenue. The hosting does not seem to be so big issue, since these well known sites have been running for quite a while.
• ENGNR 10y ago
  The largest torrent search engine? No way, Google is still working fine for me
  • jjn2009 10y ago
    The double standard is incredible. Google would be well served defending the open web by supporting sites such as torrentz (via legal resources or otherwise), its unfortunate that the PR aspect prevents such a thing.
    • Freak_NL 10y ago
      Why would that benefit Alphabet/Google? They have been working hard at their image of a service provider friendly to the needs of copyright owners (think of how Youtube handles DMCA requests and performs geoblocking based on IP licensing).
      • adrianN 10y ago
        > friendly to the needs of copyright owners (think of how Youtube handles DMCA requests and performs geoblocking based on IP licensing). You mean complying with the local laws? That seems to be something that they have to do.
        • SpaceManiac 10y ago
          YouTube goes above and beyond the law in favoring copyright holders. Historically, it doesn't take notices with any legal force to get videos removed or forcibly monetized, just an (often automated) entry in YouTube's system; an appeal against a copyright claim (whether fair use or pure bogus) is decided by the claimant; and (for a long time, but I think not anymore?) claimants kept the money earned while their claim was active, even if it was rescinded.
    • 72deluxe 10y ago
      How would assisting copyright infringement benefit the open web? I see the mention of double standards but it seems very odd to me that someone would support copyright infringement (grabbing films etc.) and deem it acceptable yet we'd balk at someone either: a) not paying for software we were selling, or b) not paying for a software service we were selling. It doesn't add up.
• sschueller 10y ago
  I hope we get a nice implementation of Riffle[1] sometime soon. [1] http://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf
• dyml 10y ago
  What would it take to build a secure & resilient torrent site? I'm guessing fully decentralised and I've seen mentions of * ipfs (https://ipfs.io/ https://ipfs.io/) * zeronet (https://zeronet.io/ https://zeronet.io/ * Riffle (anonymous communication) Couldn't we leverage bits of the blockchain technology? Since it's a fully distributed shared database where writers don't trust each other and no middleman is trusted either? (edit:formatting)
  • comboy 10y ago
    What do you need a blockchain for? Storing millions of no more seeded torrents? There are already magnet links and DHT which is distributed shared database. The only issue is a search function, which is much easier to implement and works much faster when it's done in a centralized form.
    • stubish 10y ago
      For distributing all those magnet links of course. Yes, it will be a huge morgue of dead magnet links but not being able to remove them is a required feature. And more importantly it needs to store ratings and not be gameable, or it will be taken over for malware and spam and die a quick death. Which is going to take some thought.
      • comboy 10y ago
        I still don't see how blockchain helps with distribution and what incentive would be to store huge loads of this type of data locally. Ratings are important indeed, but blockchain doesn't make them not gameable. For this you need some working web of trust and oh how I wish we had one already (yes yes I know the technology is there and it 'works', but it must work like an e-mail works for an average user to really be popular, I want to be warned not to buy from given ebay seller because friend of my friend of my friend had a bad experience and because I assign high weight to this friend opinion, well that went OT a bit..). On torrent sites there's a thin web of trust of website owners moderators and then trusted uploaders, we could do so much better. Not to make a separate post, small ask HN: any interesting active projects trying to build such user friendly distributed WoT?
• provoc 10y ago
  Good. Maybe this will deter people from stealing music, films and software. It's a disgrace that so many work so hard on their craft, only to have the fruits of their efforts ripped off by the immoral. I hope the authorities shut all these torrent search engines down, and prosecute the owners to the full extent of the law.
  • pipeline_tux 10y ago
    Torrents are filling the gap where the traditional media companies are still failing. Here in NZ there are 7 different streaming services that I can immediately think of, each with exclusive rights to some content. I'm not paying $80 a month to sign up to each so I can watch their popular "exclusive" show they own the rights to. If the rights-holders made their content accessible and at a reasonable price to consumers, torrents would disappear.
    • provoc 10y ago
      So your excuse for this theft of service is that you simply don't want to pay? It's lucky for you that prosecuting torrent users is so rare, as I really can't see that one holding up in court. If you can't afford it, don't steal it. It's as simple as that.
      • hueving 10y ago
        Theft is a generous term for something that isn't rivalrous.
        • provoc 10y ago
          If you examine both its common and legal connotations, theft isn't so narrowly defined as to preclude nonrivalrous goods. This really is a common misconception of the word, often played up by the "copyright infringement is not theft" crowd to attempt to deny the consequences of their actions.
      • vmateixeira 10y ago
• celticninja 10y ago
  oh look a troll, using a brand new account too, what a great way to add to the conversation.
  • provoc 10y ago
    Baselessly accusing others of trolling isn't exactly a stellar addition to the conversation. Sometimes an echo chamber, as HN often is on the subject of piracy and copyright, needs the occasional dissenting comment to add diversity to the conversation.
    • celticninja 10y ago
      You are correct it is not. However it is not baseless in this case. You create a brand new account, called "provoc“ then make a deliberately provocative statement. You are a troll perhaps you just haven't realised it yet.
      • provoc 10y ago
        May I direct you to the HN comment guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html "What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling." Please engage with the substance of comments rather than accusing others of trolling. It was indeed a provocative comment given the unfortunate HN zeitgeist on torrenting and piracy, but accusations of being a 'troll' are overly negative and insulting.
        • collyw 10y ago
          troll
  • spriggan3 10y ago
    > oh look a troll, using a brand new account too, what a great way to add to the conversation. Calm down, we're not on reddit. Having a different opinion doesn't make one a troll.
• dineshp2 10y ago
  The reason piracy is so popular is because it is free and because it's incredibly convenient, in that order. The convenience factor is basically, if you want some content (movie, game) it's a simple search and download away (streaming torrents seem to be gaining traction). No legal alternative offers this level of convenience. I suspect piracy will become harder for the average user due to three letter agencies making life harder for pirates, but it won't stop the determined ones. Speaking of determined torrenters, Peter Sunde, the founder of TPB had something interesting to say about torrent aggregators being shut down [1]. The idea is that even though downloading torrents itself is p2p, finding the magnet links is still centralized and that is an area that needs to be decentralized. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-piracy-scene-needs-innovation-160726/ https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-piracy-scene-nee...
  • anexprogrammer 10y ago
    It's much, much more than that. It's the only way to get an acceptable product. I have ALSO pirated everything I ever bought until very recently. DVDs included region forcing, and forced, unskippable adverts and copyright notices. Netflix, .mkvs and .mp4s just have the programme and titles. Usually someone, somewhere, has put effort into making a good quality rip saving me the time doing so, along with synchronised and corrected subtitles. For games, the major studios still feel annoying and restrictive copy protection is the way to go. I don't want a £30 game that requires me juggling collections of plastic disks, or an always on net connection to a licensing server they may turn off in a year or two anyway. So the noCD, no licensing server release is a necessary download for me. I tend to mostly buy GOG and independent studios putting out DRM free things these days. EU IV being about the only exception I can think of in the last 2 years. I'm not a fan of being data mined on how often and how far I read ebooks, listen to audiobooks. So first thing on buying a new ebook from Amazon is rip the protection to read it on my non-amazon reader. First thing to do with an audible book is convert to mp3. If either of those became unfeasible or impossible I would stop buying. Finally for music, we've had attempts with copy protections and Sony rootkits, but mostly my music collection is complete and they gave up on silly DRM attempts. I only need to rip new stuff that's not available in FLAC.
• balladeer 10y ago
  Are they going to come after the private trackers after this? The numbers are relatively very small though. I would hate if that happens. I pay for content whenever I can but those trackers provide me with stuff I mostly never get anywhere else (and in the format and size I want) even if I want to pay.
• kyriakos 10y ago
  so if you are running a torrent aggregation service its illegal.. but if you are running a torrent aggregation service along with a regular web search service it becomes legal? maybe there is an opportunity for pirates here... looking at google (and any other web search engine)
• neelkadia 10y ago
  Where are the mirrors?
  • cocotino 10y ago
    It was a dynamic website, mirroring it wouldn't be a trivial task, and a snapshot of a site that adds new stuff every day will become useless with time
• Svenskunganka 10y ago
  Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much bigger trend in EU & AUS than it is in the US, and I think that it mainly boils down to the US-based movie studios restricting and delaying access to content to non-US citizens. Some may think that this is acceptable, but I can't see how treating one customer differently from another is acceptable just because they have different nationalities. I'm paying exactly the same amount of money as the next US-citizen for the content, yet I am treated differently. One other thing that troubles me is that there are higher quality content available via torrents than via the legal alternatives. Having invested in a 7.1 surround system and a 4K 3D Android TV, you would expect that the legal alternatives would have content available for such hardware, but they rarely do. Personally I think it's absurd that the movie studios expect to be on the european market but treat those customers as second-hand customers, and I don't understand why the EU isn't doing anything about it. The EU and US relies on eachothers markets, yet music labels forces the Swedish-invented Spotify to restrict access to certain songs for non-US citizens. I do acknowledge that some people are pirating because it's free, but I don't think that the general public does so. I'd be the happiest Netflix & HBO customer if I had the same content library as my fellow US friends.
  • Freak_NL 10y ago
    > I'm paying exactly the same amount of money as the next US-citizen for the content, yet I am treated differently. Netflix' official standpoint is that you are paying for access on n screens at a time at x resolution (e.g., FullHD), not for the content. This is of course complete nonsense — of course we are paying for content — and I have no qualms whatsoever in downloading something available on Netflix US via some torrent if it is not available in my local Netflix catalogue.
  • anexprogrammer 10y ago
    > you would expect that the legal alternatives would have content available for such hardware, but they rarely do. Nope, wouldn't expect that. It'll come slowly, and apparently very grudgingly. It took a decade or more to be able to get flac downloads commonly available. For years music downloads were low bit rate crap mp3. Pirate it or buy the CD were the only options for quality. It was like they actively wanted us to be searching for torrent sites.
• justrossthings 10y ago
  >TFW your children won't experience having access to all the software, music, and other content they could ever want just by knowing how to use a computer better than most people Feels bad man. Having access to a cracked version of Photoshop at 13 years old changed my life.
  • ceeK 10y ago
    Same here. I wonder whether this experience with the free cracked version helped make Photoshop any more popular. If it was only used in the legal sense, costing hundreds, would it be so popular?
    • slig 10y ago
      I remember reading about that their copy protection was very very simple, making it trivial to write a crack. And that it was a feature, not a bug.
    • analog31 10y ago
      At one point, I developed a hypothesis that for a big software vendor, turning a blind eye to piracy was like a form of "dumping" on the market. Consider a vendor like Microsoft. They could make their money selling legit copies to businesses, and through package deals on new computers. Meanwhile, anybody who tried to sell a simpler or even better product at a lower price was forced out of the market by the "free" copies of Microsoft that were widely available. The same "free" software gave Microsoft an advantage in the platform wars (e.g., Windows vs Mac) as well. Though most of the mainstream software was available for both platforms, people would buy a computer that could run the software that they could get for "free," often by copying the disks at work. I remember a conversation with a friend. He was buying a new PC. I suggested getting a Mac (around 1996). He said: "The Mac doesn't run AutoCAD." I suggested that he couldn't afford AutoCAD anyway, and he just gave me a wink and laughed. I don't know how this applies to movies and music, i.e., what a "cheaper alternative" looks like. When I was a kid, we would never see a first-run movie. Instead, we'd have to wait until it showed up at the discount theater, where we could see it for a buck. Today, there may be no reasonable business model for providing a lower priced channel for content, because content competes with pirate content.
• unixhero 10y ago
  dAMn
• Kenji 10y ago
  Does anyone know of a good alternative? Are there good torrent sites behind TOR, that is, .onion addresses?
• Fiahil 10y ago
  With the recent shut down of KAT, we're kind of in a "low phase". It always has been a game of cat and mouse, but now, we've sadly lost two big mouses. I hope someone will quickly take up the torch.
  • Freak_NL 10y ago
    > mouses Mice. :)
    • Fiahil 10y ago
      Indeed. Too late for edits, but thanks ^^
    • KenM 10y ago
      It's not really set in stone, from here[0], for instance - "Technically, since "mouse" is an acronym for "manually-operated user-select equipment," it could probably be pluralized as "mouses." But since hardly anyone is aware of the word's etymology, and because it sounds less awkward, most people pluralize it as "mice."" [0] - http://painintheenglish.com/case/534 http://painintheenglish.com/case/534
      • Freak_NL 10y ago
        You are correct when talking about computer mice/mouses, but for the animal referred to here (figuratively) the plural is mice.
    • draw_down 10y ago
      Meeses.
• sktrdie 10y ago
  Please have a look at this pull request I submitted some time ago to Bittorrent.org: https://github.com/bittorrent/bittorrent.org/pull/35 https://github.com/bittorrent/bittorrent.org/pull/35 It's about updating torrents via DHT mutable items. Meaning that torrent sites could share their public key and simply seed an .rss file containing their indexed torrents (a mapping of infohash -> descriptions). When they want to share new torrents, they simply update their torrent to a new .rss file and consumers will hop on that new swarm. We need more support to get this into a standard BEP and also into torrent clients. I know there are other networks (IPFS, I2P, Freenet, ZeroNet, etc..) that do this, but BitTorrent is the most widely used and I think implementing functionality in the torrent ecosystem itself would have much more effect.
  • petra 10y ago
    Another alternative is tribler.com an open-source bittorent client, that supports anonymity and P2P search, and it's written in python. I wonder what it would take to transfer a large index from KAT or torrentz to it, and start popularizing it.
    • JTon 10y ago
      FYI, the .com URL is a law firm. Here's the proper one: www.tribler.org
  • rakoo 10y ago
    The real value of sites like TPB and KAT is the community upvoting/downvoting torrents to only keep the correct torrents, and people commenting about actual quality, pointing the problems of encoding or language... This can't be provided by your proposals or anything that relies around an RSS feed, unfortunately
    • sktrdie 10y ago
      Trusting the entity that they're not updating the torrent with spam is the first step. Discussions about the quality of torrents is a different matter which I think neither TPB and KAT have solved - spam accounts could invade such centralized services and downvote quality content. In my opinion a "community" is better built out of a network of trusted public keys.
• elcct 10y ago
  I still find Google to be the best search engine in terms of content in question. But they are too big to fall...
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• rplnt 10y ago
  Just few years back torrentz was still serving magnet links (just the hash, without trackers embedded), so you didn't even have to visit the torrent sites. Is even that illegal? Publishing hashes of copyrighted material?
  • DugFin 10y ago
    In jurisdictions friendly to the US anti-pirating effort, they've largely adopted a legal standard of "I know pirating when I see it" rather than following the strict definition outlined by the law. "Making available" has come to be interpreted as "telling someone who to ask about what a pirated (whatever) looks like so you can find it yourself".
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• teslaberry 10y ago
  frankly i wish there were a piratebay only for instructional and educational materials.
• intended 10y ago
  It's amazing that even on HN, the conversation is no longer moored to the past. Copyright in America has been extended beyond reasonable restriction, driven by the MPAA and RIAA who began chipping away at the net as we knew it, and continue to do so today. All of this at the behest of firms which continue to use the most interesting of accounting techniques to show losses, while simultaneously doing everything in their power to make it harder for people to comfortably and easily access media (starting from the time of CDs to today). All this on top of the fact that studies show that torrenting movies don't indicate lost sales and actually working as a signal to indicate the popularity of a product. all this on the forum where it's reasonable to expect people to know the value of the network effect.
  • youngButEager 10y ago
    Here's an interview question I might pose to candidates (for a coding job): "Which torrent site with access to popular songs and movies over the past 5 years has been the best, meaning the one you use most?" My candidate responds and says "Pirate Bay" or "Kat". If I have several candidates, this guy will be the last possible choice if every candidate is qualified because I'm assuming he's okay with using copyrighted works without paying. Consider these scenarios -- stealing in your opinion? - go to a restaurant, eat a meal, then leave without paying (you enjoyed something you were supposed to pay for but you did not pay) - use public transit and not pay for the ride - hail a taxi then run away when you arrive at the destination and not pay If I asked a candidate "would either of these 3 scenarios above be okay?" -- would they expect me to hire them if they said one or more would be acceptable? If I asked the candidate "how many times have you enjoyed a copyrighted film or recording -- and not paid?" -- 99.99% sure that every candidate would say 'never' even if they'd done so dozens of times. Why would they lie to me about that? "If I tell the hiring manager I watch, listen to copyrighted stuff without paying, he might think that was wrong and not hire me, so I have to lie." "It's not stealing, I just disagree with copyright laws/distribution channels/etc." No it's stealing.
    • intended 10y ago
      Even as a hypothetical, it is an example so laden with meaning and implication that the only true measure of your argument will come when you actually apply it during a recruitment drive. Please go ahead and discuss this with a recruiter and see what they say.
• antoineMoPa 10y ago
  The first thing that got me to pirate movies was that DVDs did not work because of their DRM after I installed Linux. I had plenty of legally bought movies that just did not work on my computer until I found the right Gentoo packages (libdvd-css or something)... I never tried Netflix because it took so many years for it to work with Linux. Being a free software user, it is easier to pirate stuff than to buy the content. If companies just gave me access to a DRM free .avi/.ogv download for a decent price, I would buy the damn movies.
  • phairoh 10y ago
    > If companies just gave me access to a DRM free .avi/.ogv download for a decent price, I would buy the damn movies. A million times this. The music industry figured out how to sell DRM free music files years ago and ever since then I haven't pirated a single album. If the video entertainment industry would do the same, my torrenting days would be over.
• doubleorseven 10y ago
  Where would i find me a Russian bride now?
• aerovistae 10y ago
  The thing that gets me is that everyone's fine with libraries and used book stores, as well as sales of second hand games and DVDs, none of which send profits back to the creators or rights-owners. But digital piracy, that's amoral. Sigh. I like seeing the contortions of logic people pull off to try and explain how these things are different.
  • habitue 10y ago
    But it is different! Used bookstores wont let you walk out with the book for free, they charge you :P
    • loader 10y ago
      so more like libraries?
• youngButEager 10y ago
  GOOD RIDDANCE. The example of Zuckerberg stealing the idea for Facebook and getting rich has contributed to the foolish belief that it's okay to "enjoy the benefit of something that was SUPPOSED to be paid for -- and NOT PAYING". "I didn't steal any copyrighted material, my site just helped people who WANTED to enjoy the benefit of copyrighted material that was SUPPOSED to be paid for but didn't pay. So I'm in the clear!" NO. Torrentz "Drove the getaway car", taking thieves to where the crime was committed.
  • alanwatts 10y ago
    All that's left is for us to ban roads, that way no one can drive their get away cars.